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It was the best of times, it was the worst of times – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,769
    edited February 27
    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards
  • All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Looking forward to william spinning this.

    Trump just now: the U.S. should take back the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
    https://x.com/DanDePetris/status/1894803133328761015
  • Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Score one for a nimble and independent trade policy. 👍
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    I say we take off, and nuke the whole place from orbit.

    Only way to be sure.

    I suspect Trump's ego is now so vast a nuke would actually be deflected by the gravity field it puts out.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,850
    A bit like Labour not having much of a plan for government after all, they haven't got much of a plan for dealing with Trump, other than dialling up the obsequiousness to 11.
  • Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Score one for a nimble and independent trade policy. 👍
    Because we are out of Europe ?

    That is going to trigger many

    The first real Brexit dividend?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,529

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Thereby displaying a keener diplomatic sensibility than Obama did.
  • A bit like Labour not having much of a plan for government after all, they haven't got much of a plan for dealing with Trump, other than dialling up the obsequiousness to 11.

    That is a plan though.

    As I said before, turn Trump's flaws into his biggest weakness to be manipulated.

    All Trump cares about is himself and how great and special he is, so offer him shiny trinkets that don't mean jack or cost us much but that makes him feel special, and then he can be managed better.

    He's like a bird now distracted by and admiring his own reflection - and if that means he does what we want, then mission accomplished.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,318
    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,279

    TimS said:

    Starmer now sells out Canada. He could have said something simple like “I know Donald is just joking about this. Look, Canada is one of Britain’s and America’s closest allies, a member of 5 eyes, and I think we all agree that”.

    There can be no question where Starmer sees the future and it is close to the US with a trade deal avoiding tariffs

    Of course Trump has UK connections, but also he endorses Brexit, and absolutely has the EU in his cross hairs so it could be argued that Starmer has taken advantage and absolutely with Mandelson influence

    Starmer has at times been embarrassing patronising and not sure many of his mps or Lib Dems will be pleased
    Perhaps but when you visit someone else's house you have to accept your responsibilities as a guest.

    Yes, being too "close" to Washington isn't always electorally popular even if it's geopolitically and diplomatically sensible but at least now there is or could be a viable alternative in terms of a much closer political and military relationship with the rest of Europe (that doesn't mean rejoining the EU).

    A moment of "truth" for Europe or an acceptance of what has been the reality for decades - we may not be able to live with Washington (administrations come and go) but we can't live without them?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    Starmer was far too fawning and I was close to reaching for the sick bag but I understand this was a tough gig .
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,135
    edited February 27

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Score one for a nimble and independent trade policy. 👍
    Because we are out of Europe ?

    That is going to trigger many

    The first real Brexit dividend?
    Far from the first, I'm very glad we are in the CPTPP for instance.

    It is another though. Trigger warning for Scott.
  • TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    I think he will have upset his own side and those who do not support his politics will not change their votes to Labour anyway
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,812
    Some serious butthurt that we are not getting a public monstering.
    Plastic patriots offended.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    I think that is the most important result of today for Starmer as any trade deal with US ends any chance of rejoining the EU

    And no trade deal means Trump will treat us asif we are the EU
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Good lord, I am experiencing a scintilla of respect for Ron DeSantis.

    Ron DeSantis on Andrew Tate: “No, Florida is not a place where you’re welcome with that type of conduct.”

    Good for him. Say what you want about DeSantis and other rightists, there are some moral guardrails. MAGA is uniquely depraved from the top down.

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1895154797747253380
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    A bit like Labour not having much of a plan for government after all, they haven't got much of a plan for dealing with Trump, other than dialling up the obsequiousness to 11.

    No one had a plan for Trump.

    Otherwise we'd have increased defence spending a couple of years ago..
  • GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    The left and pro EU supporters would be furious
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    28m
    This is obviously turning into a triumph for Starmer. But it’s also a huge win for David Lammy and the Foreign Office. Serious preparation, The Sherpas have been doing some proper Sherparing.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,536
    ...

    TimS said:

    Starmer now sells out Canada. He could have said something simple like “I know Donald is just joking about this. Look, Canada is one of Britain’s and America’s closest allies, a member of 5 eyes, and I think we all agree that”.

    There can be no question where Starmer sees the future and it is close to the US with a trade deal avoiding tariffs

    Of course Trump has UK connections, but also he endorses Brexit, and absolutely has the EU in his cross hairs so it could be argued that Starmer has taken advantage and absolutely with Mandelson influence

    Starmer has at times been embarrassing patronising and not sure many of his mps or Lib Dems will be pleased
    Trump has beasted Starmer. As you and William have hinted the hapless Starmer has humiliated our nation. First by being eclipsed by the Gorgeous Brothers and now this.
    nico67 said:

    Starmer was far too fawning and I was close to reaching for the sick bag but I understand this was a tough gig .

    Trump has pulled Starmer's pants down. First with his release of the Gorgeous Brothers and now with this humiliation. Starmer shouldn't have gone, and he certainly shouldn't have invited the orange bastard for a State Visit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,226
    edited February 27
    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Indeed, he would likely need Tory and Reform support to get it through as lots of Labour MP rebels would join the LDs, Greens and SNP and PC and Corbyn's Independents and vote it down.

    Trump getting it through Congress is not a given either
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,536

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    I think he will have upset his own side and those who do not support his politics will not change their votes to Labour anyway
    Is this Britain's greatest humiliation since the Battle of Hastings?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,226
    edited February 27
    Nigelb said:

    Looking forward to william spinning this.

    Trump just now: the U.S. should take back the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
    https://x.com/DanDePetris/status/1894803133328761015

    Has he asked the Taliban?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,769
    edited February 27

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    I think he will have upset his own side and those who do not support his politics will not change their votes to Labour anyway
    Is this Britain's greatest humiliation since the Battle of Hastings?
    Don't be daft
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    Let's see if Trump demands a VAT exemption before we start celebrating.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,226
    edited February 27

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    I think he will have upset his own side and those who do not support his politics will not change their votes to Labour anyway
    Is this Britain's greatest humiliation since the Battle of Hastings?
    No, we have not been invaded despite losing the Chagos Islands and for now are one of the few big economies not being tariffed by Trump.

    Indeed losing the American colonies in the first place in 1783 was far more humiliating
  • Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    You could do a pub crawl in Bamber Bridge to check off one battlefield.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge
  • Starmer has an incredible ability to confound his critics. Next election is wide open.

    Before you laugh, I was one of the few to say here that no, Johnson wouldn’t last a decade and SKS would win.

    But Jezza too etc.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,960
    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Oh I see Starmer has been an utter twat staying silent while Trump lied through his teeth about EU trade and Ukraine support. Then saying “our trade is different, we have a trade deficit with you”. Amoral. Might as well go the whole Swiss hog and offer to bank his stolen gold and paintings when the war starts.

    No doubt the word "perfidious" comes to Macron as he watches the snake charmer's antics

    Macron behaved like a statesman. Starmer has behaved like a poodle.
    Macron was oleaginous

    Starmer is fucking rebarbative. Geopolitical arschlosssen
    Arschlecker

    Doesn’t lecker mean delicious in German?
  • HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    I think he will have upset his own side and those who do not support his politics will not change their votes to Labour anyway
    Is this Britain's greatest humiliation since the Battle of Hastings?
    No, we have not been invaded despite losing the Chagos Islands and for now are one of the few big economies not being tariffed by Trump.

    Indeed losing the American colonies in the first place in 1783 was far more humiliating
    Why answer such a daft question?
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    Surprised that anyone would have thought Starmer should behave differently. What would the UK possibly gain by having a ‘love actually’ moment and telling Trump to piss off? Apart from making us feel good about ourselves briefly. What counts is action. Will we actually be able to get a slightly better peace agreement in Ukraine, and can we avoid a trade war. Neither would be helped by Starmer attacking Trump for his remarks about Trudeau or Zelensky. And to be fair he did fact check Trump about UK military gifts to Ukraine, and rebutted Vance’s claims about free speech in the UK.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658
    edited February 27

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    I'm not saying it would, but for Starmer and the government it won't be an easy "sell" and there's no telling what sectors might be on the table either. As @Big_G_NorthWales says if it happens, it also seals the deal on Brexit once and for all.

    I'm sure if SKS had a preference he would just muddle along as we are right now, without a trade deal but it sounds like he'll be forced to do one if he wants to avoid tariffs.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    @georgeeaton

    Trump praised Starmer as a “very tough negotiator”, promised a swift trade agreement, backed the Chagos deal and reaffirmed Article 5.

    Hard to see how this US trip could have gone better for Starmer.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @georgeeaton

    Trump praised Starmer as a “very tough negotiator”, promised a swift trade agreement, backed the Chagos deal and reaffirmed Article 5.

    Hard to see how this US trip could have gone better for Starmer.

    A trade deal with US is your worst nightmare ending any chance of rejoining the EU
  • Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    Let's see if Trump demands a VAT exemption before we start celebrating.
    He's more likely to demand a rates exemption for his golf course.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658
    edited February 27

    Starmer has an incredible ability to confound his critics. Next election is wide open.

    Before you laugh, I was one of the few to say here that no, Johnson wouldn’t last a decade and SKS would win.

    But Jezza too etc.

    It's definitely possible Labour could win the next election. I don't think SKS would be able to pull off the circumstances that produced a landslide with 35% but he could easily get a reduced majority with a similar or even bigger share.

    I think a hung parliament is most likely with either a Lab/Lib or Con/Ref coalition, but 2029 is wide open at this stage, for sure.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653
    edited February 27
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He was clever and agile in the toughest public arena. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do any further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,047

    geoffw said:

    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Oh I see Starmer has been an utter twat staying silent while Trump lied through his teeth about EU trade and Ukraine support. Then saying “our trade is different, we have a trade deficit with you”. Amoral. Might as well go the whole Swiss hog and offer to bank his stolen gold and paintings when the war starts.

    No doubt the word "perfidious" comes to Macron as he watches the snake charmer's antics

    Macron behaved like a statesman. Starmer has behaved like a poodle.
    Macron was oleaginous

    Starmer is fucking rebarbative. Geopolitical arschlosssen
    Arschlecker

    Doesn’t lecker mean delicious in German?
    So, you're saying Trump's arse is delicious?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Surprised that anyone would have thought Starmer should behave differently. What would the UK possibly gain by having a ‘love actually’ moment and telling Trump to piss off? Apart from making us feel good about ourselves briefly. What counts is action. Will we actually be able to get a slightly better peace agreement in Ukraine, and can we avoid a trade war. Neither would be helped by Starmer attacking Trump for his remarks about Trudeau or Zelensky. And to be fair he did fact check Trump about UK military gifts to Ukraine, and rebutted Vance’s claims about free speech in the UK.

    Well I agree with that.
    The whole Love Actually meme is fantasy bollocks. (And it's a crap film into the bargain.)
  • Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think the Government had a bad start but is now starting to get a grip (since dumping Sue Gray). I'm not a Lab supporter but can recognise having a Government doing well is in the national interest.

    Tom Harris in the Telegraph argues that Lab are more right wing than the Tories:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/27/britain-now-has-most-right-wing-government-in-generation/

    The interesting thing is how it pans out electorally. the danger is that Starmer gets plaudits from people who still won't vote for him, while upsetting the base.
  • algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658

    Scott_xP said:

    @georgeeaton

    Trump praised Starmer as a “very tough negotiator”, promised a swift trade agreement, backed the Chagos deal and reaffirmed Article 5.

    Hard to see how this US trip could have gone better for Starmer.

    A trade deal with US is your worst nightmare ending any chance of rejoining the EU
    Could Mr Second Referendum Starmer be the one to actually lock in Brexit forever? :open_mouth:
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,733
    edited February 27
    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    The Canada thing was pretty bad. As was the lack of steel on whether we could take on Russia (even if the MoD think we can't, we have to pretend).

    Hindsight is everything, but a great answer would have been "With our French and Canadian allies, absolutely".

    In all of this, we are forgetting Ukraine a bit. That strikes me as wrong, but it may well be a good thing in the long run. Starmer and Macron are taking the heat off Zelensky.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    nico67 said:

    Whether we like it or not the UK is currently too reliant on the US for its defence .

    You can’t just change that overnight .

    We need to go full on alt.right Euro defense

    Britain under reform shall be united with France under le pen, Germany under the AfD and Italy under Meloni

    Then let’s make Europe great again - and able to defend our noble civilisation from the heathens
    Except the AfD lost in Germany, Meloni is only in a coalition government with centre right Forza Italia, Le Pen needs LR voters support to win in the runoff in 2027 and Reform can't govern without Tory support either, so you would need the centre right too
    Trump is doing a good job so far depressing support for the right around the world.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Barnet (1471) is on the Northern line.
  • Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think the Government had a bad start but is now starting to get a grip (since dumping Sue Gray). I'm not a Lab supporter but can recognise having a Government doing well is in the national interest.

    Tom Harris in the Telegraph argues that Lab are more right wing than the Tories:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/02/27/britain-now-has-most-right-wing-government-in-generation/

    The interesting thing is how it pans out electorally. the danger is that Starmer gets plaudits from people who still won't vote for him, while upsetting the base.
    Actually I made just the point in your last paragraph earlier
  • Starmer has an incredible ability to confound his critics. Next election is wide open.

    Before you laugh, I was one of the few to say here that no, Johnson wouldn’t last a decade and SKS would win.

    But Jezza too etc.

    Fundamentally, Starmer needs to achieve 3 things to get re-elected

    - Strong economy and reduced cost of living
    - Clearly improving public services
    - Progress on reducing immigration

    Foreign affairs won't drive many votes. Still early days.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,766
    TimS said:

    Starmer now sells out Canada. He could have said something simple like “I know Donald is just joking about this. Look, Canada is one of Britain’s and America’s closest allies, a member of 5 eyes, and I think we all agree that”.

    To be fair to Starmer I think he was trying to close down a hostile line of questioning rather than do a dirty on Canada. He could have been a bit diplomatic by adding "And of course the UK has a very good relationship with Canada too." But these are probably things you don't think of in what must be the most stressful meeting he's been to as PM.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
    Noted. One to take seriously but not literally. A comprehensive trade deal with USA is a potential nightmare for agriculture.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,982

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Been to The Alamo....
  • algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
    Noted. One to take seriously but not literally. A comprehensive trade deal with USA is a potential nightmare for agriculture.
    If not then tariffs
  • glwglw Posts: 10,254
    Nigelb said:

    Looking forward to william spinning this.

    Trump just now: the U.S. should take back the Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan.
    https://x.com/DanDePetris/status/1894803133328761015

    IIRC didn't the DOD want to keep Bagram open to support the Afghan government if the Taliban threatened their rule but the Trump/Taliban deal wouldn't have left enough forces to support and defend the base and so it was left.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Towton is perhaps the most authentic.
    It's almost as featureless as it must have been five and a half centuries back.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,592

    geoffw said:

    TimS said:

    Oh I see Starmer has been an utter twat staying silent while Trump lied through his teeth about EU trade and Ukraine support. Then saying “our trade is different, we have a trade deficit with you”. Amoral. Might as well go the whole Swiss hog and offer to bank his stolen gold and paintings when the war starts.

    No doubt the word "perfidious" comes to Macron as he watches the snake charmer's antics

    Macron behaved like a statesman. Starmer has behaved like a poodle.
    A Labouradoodle at least.
    Characteristic of our right wing on PB to think that only XL Bullies can bite (let alone get their way without biting).

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653
    TimS said:

    Starmer now sells out Canada. He could have said something simple like “I know Donald is just joking about this. Look, Canada is one of Britain’s and America’s closest allies, a member of 5 eyes, and I think we all agree that”.

    I heard it differently, with Trump anxious not to go there and cutting short any comment in order to help Starmer and minimise attention on his own folly; Starmer anxious to say nothing at all - conventionally he doesn't get involved with the sovereignty matters of King Charles III other realms.

    The main impression is that Trump was very keen throughout not to embarass Starmer.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,428
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
    Noted. One to take seriously but not literally. A comprehensive trade deal with USA is a potential nightmare for agriculture.
    Supreme de volaille a la crème de javel.
    Jarret de Porc aux hormones.
    Œufs à la salmonella.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    edited February 27

    Why would Trump back such a terrible deal?

    Terrible deal for India and US?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,653

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
    Noted. One to take seriously but not literally. A comprehensive trade deal with USA is a potential nightmare for agriculture.
    If not then tariffs
    Don't know but I predict fairly much 'steady as she goes' WRT to UK/USA trade.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,254
    Scott_xP said:

    @georgeeaton

    Trump praised Starmer as a “very tough negotiator”, promised a swift trade agreement, backed the Chagos deal and reaffirmed Article 5.

    Hard to see how this US trip could have gone better for Starmer.

    No way anyone seriously believes Article 5 has any real value with a Trump Whitehouse. Starmer's not daft, he sees what Trump is really like even if he has to bite his tongue and smile for the cameras.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,592

    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    Let's see if Trump demands a VAT exemption before we start celebrating.
    He's more likely to demand a rates exemption for his golf course.
    Not in SKS's power. And there are two of them.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,956

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    American footstuff will need very clear markings though. Trump will not like that.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,529

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Been to The Alamo....
    Been to Crogen, if that helps:


  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658
    If the US/UK does do a trade deal I wonder if SKS will seek a "confirmatory" referendum? :D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    All the people that hate SKS here still hate him so a score draw all told.

    I quite liked him before, but now feel less favourable. I’m probably in a tiny minority.
    Not quite so tiny: I'm not enjoying the smarm, either.
    I think Starmer did fine. And for those with ears to hear he held his ground. He had a job to do, and he did it; and today may have done some good and probably didn't do anmy further harm. In current circumstances that's a win.

    One other point: Trump didn't sound at all like there was tariffs coming on the UK. This is unrelated to a trade deal in fact. Any comprehensive trade deal may well be light years away and there isn't one at the moment.
    Trump's own words were that he was hopeful a quick trade deal will be forthcoming to avoid tariffs so the deal is related to tariffs
    Noted. One to take seriously but not literally. A comprehensive trade deal with USA is a potential nightmare for agriculture.
    Supreme de volaille a la crème de javel.
    Jarret de Porc aux hormones.
    Œufs à la salmonella.
    Listeria is the US food disaster of the moment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651
    So on the ball as ever...

    Allison Pearson
    @AllisonPearson
    ·
    3h
    How did Britain end up being led by a Soviet-era, limited, soulless ideological woodentop like Starmer? Municipal council is his level.

    He’s hugely unpopular. People can’t wait to see the back of him. Yet there he is representing us at the White House.
    @realDonaldTrump

    https://x.com/AllisonPearson/status/1895171090390843453
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651
    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    American footstuff will need very clear markings though. Trump will not like that.
    He loves flags. He kisses and cuddles his own every time he goes on stage.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078
    @sturdyAlex

    There’s a lot of hat-eating tonight. Critics will find a way to do the PM down, ofc. Say he gave too much or too little. Was too fawning or not enough. They'd have done it better. Nothing will come of it.

    But in their black shrivelled heart they'll know Starmer played a blinder.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658

    So on the ball as ever...

    Allison Pearson
    @AllisonPearson
    ·
    3h
    How did Britain end up being led by a Soviet-era, limited, soulless ideological woodentop like Starmer? Municipal council is his level.

    He’s hugely unpopular. People can’t wait to see the back of him. Yet there he is representing us at the White House.
    @realDonaldTrump

    https://x.com/AllisonPearson/status/1895171090390843453

    It happened at least partly because people like Allison urged everyone to vote REF in Election 24, thus splitting the right wing vote in half and allowing Labour to claim a 170 majority on 35% of the vote....
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Towton is perhaps the most authentic.
    It's almost as featureless as it must have been five and a half centuries back.
    Also the archaeology of the human remains is outstanding, I have a copy of the site report. Almost as good as Visby, and while I have been to the Army Museum in Stockholm where many of the remains are displayed, I haven't managed to get to Gotland yet.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,129
    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    There’s a lot of hat-eating tonight. Critics will find a way to do the PM down, ofc. Say he gave too much or too little. Was too fawning or not enough. They'd have done it better. Nothing will come of it.

    But in their black shrivelled heart they'll know Starmer played a blinder.

    If a Tory had said and done exactly the same as Starmer these people would be saying that it was totally embarrassing.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Trump confirming a trade deal avoiding tariffs is very much on the cards

    Yeah, sounds like Starmer will have to do a trade deal if he wants to avoid tariffs. Could get messy for the government.
    Why is a trade deal bad? No one is forced to buy stuff.
    American footstuff will need very clear markings though. Trump will not like that.
    He loves flags. He kisses and cuddles his own every time he goes on stage.
    One American flag = innocuous. Two American flags = dodgy. Three American flags, not for internal use
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    Nigelb said:

    Why would Trump back such a terrible deal?

    Because firstly, he's a bit shit at dealmaking, and secondly, and more importantly, he's not paying for it.,
    “he's not paying for it.”

    Are you sure? US have always paid us for our Chagos work before. Matesrates deals on nuclear weaponry.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,812

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    There’s a lot of hat-eating tonight. Critics will find a way to do the PM down, ofc. Say he gave too much or too little. Was too fawning or not enough. They'd have done it better. Nothing will come of it.

    But in their black shrivelled heart they'll know Starmer played a blinder.

    If a Tory had said and done exactly the same as Starmer these people would be saying that it was totally embarrassing.
    Totally gobsmacked at a display of consummate competence more like.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    There’s a lot of hat-eating tonight. Critics will find a way to do the PM down, ofc. Say he gave too much or too little. Was too fawning or not enough. They'd have done it better. Nothing will come of it.

    But in their black shrivelled heart they'll know Starmer played a blinder.

    If a Tory had said and done exactly the same as Starmer these people would be saying that it was totally embarrassing.
    It was neither a blinder nor a disaster.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651
    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    12m
    News from
    @George_Osborne
    on the podcast:

    @ShippersUnbound
    moving from The Sunday Times to The Spectator
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189
    Sundowning, or just the same old ?

    I can’t believe I said that: Trump doesn’t remember calling Zelenskyy “dictator”
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/02/27/i-cant-believe-i-said-that-trump-doesnt-remember-calling-zelenskyy-dictator/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,826
    Nigelb said:

    Sundowning, or just the same old ?

    I can’t believe I said that: Trump doesn’t remember calling Zelenskyy “dictator”
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/02/27/i-cant-believe-i-said-that-trump-doesnt-remember-calling-zelenskyy-dictator/

    Maybe doesn't remember.

    Weirdly, those who called Biden senile are now silent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,189

    Nigelb said:

    Why would Trump back such a terrible deal?

    Because firstly, he's a bit shit at dealmaking, and secondly, and more importantly, he's not paying for it.,
    “he's not paying for it.”

    Are you sure? US have always paid us for our Chagos work before. Matesrates deals on nuclear weaponry.
    The details of our Chagos deal make zero difference to that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651
    Sam Freedman‬ ‪@samfr.bsky.social‬
    ·
    13m
    Starmer is consistently at his best when reacting to a specific problem where he has a clear goal.

    It's when confronted with a blank sheet of paper that he struggles.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lj6ufsmkwk2d
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,821
    edited February 27

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    There’s a lot of hat-eating tonight. Critics will find a way to do the PM down, ofc. Say he gave too much or too little. Was too fawning or not enough. They'd have done it better. Nothing will come of it.

    But in their black shrivelled heart they'll know Starmer played a blinder.

    If a Tory had said and done exactly the same as Starmer these people would be saying that it was totally embarrassing.
    I found it embarrassing and nauseating at times. But Starmer needed to avoid a calamity and come back with a few scraps from the buffet table which he achieved ,
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,658

    Sam Freedman‬ ‪@samfr.bsky.social‬
    ·
    13m
    Starmer is consistently at his best when reacting to a specific problem where he has a clear goal.

    It's when confronted with a blank sheet of paper that he struggles.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3lj6ufsmkwk2d


    Very much like El Gord in that regard.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,078

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul
    ·
    12m
    News from
    @George_Osborne
    on the podcast:

    @ShippersUnbound
    moving from The Sunday Times to The Spectator

    @ShippersUnbound
    ·
    11m
    Replying to @JohnRentoul and @George_Osborne
    The only problem with this revelation is that I have neither accepted a new job nor resigned from my current one. As I explained to GO when I heard he was planning to broadcast this. If I behaved like this as a journalist I would very quickly be out of business
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,483
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Barnet (1471) is on the Northern line.
    And I have indeed been there
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,982
    Nigelb said:

    Sundowning, or just the same old ?

    I can’t believe I said that: Trump doesn’t remember calling Zelenskyy “dictator”
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/02/27/i-cant-believe-i-said-that-trump-doesnt-remember-calling-zelenskyy-dictator/

    Also in that article, Trump has extended the sanctions against Russia for a further year...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,968
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why would Trump back such a terrible deal?

    Because firstly, he's a bit shit at dealmaking, and secondly, and more importantly, he's not paying for it.,
    “he's not paying for it.”

    Are you sure? US have always paid us for our Chagos work before. Matesrates deals on nuclear weaponry.
    The details of our Chagos deal make zero difference to that.
    How do you know? Firstly you don’t have details of the Chagos Deal, and secondly the abstract tie in of mates rates on weaponry won’t even be mentioned in the commons debate or written in the details, wasn’t last time as I can find anywhere. We have to wait for like thirty years or fifty years for document release to piece these things together, to know what we get in return.
  • Starmer is more than a dud.

    He took Labour from landslide loss to landslide win in 5 years. He is no fool.

    His opponents misjudge him at their peril.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why would Trump back such a terrible deal?

    Because firstly, he's a bit shit at dealmaking, and secondly, and more importantly, he's not paying for it.,
    “he's not paying for it.”

    Are you sure? US have always paid us for our Chagos work before. Matesrates deals on nuclear weaponry.
    The details of our Chagos deal make zero difference to that.
    How do you know? Firstly you don’t have details of the Chagos Deal, and secondly the abstract tie in of mates rates on weaponry won’t even be mentioned in the commons debate or written in the details, wasn’t last time as I can find anywhere. We have to wait for like thirty years or fifty years for document release to piece these things together, to know what we get in return.
    Good to have you back on the sane team Moon.
  • Daily Mail is fawning. This was the day SKS came back.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,318

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    It is going to get worse for Labour. Trump and Musk are so going to butt-**** Starmer in half an hour. I am half expecting Andy Tate to be declared Prime Minister whilst Starmer is arrested for treason.

    On the other hand, in other news, what is Suella on? She can be whatever she wants. If she doesn't want to be English/British, so be it, but she has no right to imply any of the England football team, past and present, that they aren't English. I am sure she sees some racist point scoring win in amongst her peculiar narrative. Silly woman.

    Nah.

    Trump/Musk approval ratings in the UK are dire. People might be supremely disappointed in Starmer, but the loathing some PBers feel for him is unusual. The contrast of the (relatively) benign Starmer with the grostesque US administration can only help him.

    The comments on the BBC demonstrate the appetite for a Love Actually moment. People are aghast at the way Canada has been treated, and despite some of the clever economics chat on here, would support the PM if we responded in kind.
    For sure. As soon as the US turned on Canada and Mexico, I decided to cut loose from my financial commitments to the US. Netflix, AppleTV, Paramount, all cancelled. Amazon Prime scheduled to stop in the autumn. No more Californian Pinot from Virgin Wines or Alaskan salmon from Waitrose. Not using Amazon at all is the tough one - the time and hassle it takes to try and buy the same stuff from domestic online suppliers, compared to the easy click and buy from Amazon, is remarkable. But I will do my best. The big question is my already booked trip to the US for 2026, which I may have to re-envisage as a mostly Canadian road trip.
    It’s our 40th wedding anniversary this year and my wife is overdue a medal for good conduct and long suffering. We both have an interest in American history and had planned a trip to Washington and the civil war battle sites as a special treat.

    Are you saying I should rethink this?
    A trip to the Nissan factory followed by Marston Moor, Naseby and Edge Hill.

    Save the American visit for the 50th.
    Rather more to the Civil Wars of the Islands than that. Dunbar, Launceston, Culloden, Newburn, Worcester, Killiecrankie, Newark, Lyme Regis, the Irish sites, Stow on the Wold, etc. etc. all spring to mind. At least DavidL's ticked off the siege of Dundee.
    Indeed.

    But it seems odd how little known the battlefields of Britain are.

    I've never been to those of Marston Moor, Towton or Stamford Bridge even though I must have been within a few miles of them hundreds of times.

    Well that's something I can remedy when the weather improves.
    I'm planning to do Bosworth next week.
    I'm much the same. I have certainly been to Edge Hill and Cheriton. But I have also been to Arnhem, Waterloo, Marengo, Salamanca, Ciudad Rodrigo, Fuentes de Oñoro, Bussaco, Austerlitz, Kosovo Polje, the Siege of Malta, Sriringapatnam, the Teutobuger Wald etc. Must try to get to some more British battlefields
    Barnet (1471) is on the Northern line.
    And I have indeed been there
    1471?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,651

    Daily Mail is fawning. This was the day SKS came back.

    That sound you can hear in the distance is the champagne bottles popping in Labour HQ and Downing Street.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,982
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sundowning, or just the same old ?

    I can’t believe I said that: Trump doesn’t remember calling Zelenskyy “dictator”
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/02/27/i-cant-believe-i-said-that-trump-doesnt-remember-calling-zelenskyy-dictator/

    Maybe doesn't remember.

    Weirdly, those who called Biden senile are now silent.
    Interesting that the large bruise on Trump's hand - which they had made efforts to cover with make-up - has been likened to bruises that those who use blood-thinners get.

    Trump may have some serious, undisclosed health issues.

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,318

    Daily Mail is fawning. This was the day SKS came back.

    That sound you can hear in the distance is the champagne bottles popping in Labour HQ and Downing Street.
    I thought it was the corridors of the BBC? Or was that just 1997?
This discussion has been closed.