Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Ô Canada! Terre de nos aïeux, Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux! – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    Foxy said:

    Looks like the Afghanistan cricket team are going to beat England's. That means England are out of the Champions Trophy.

    Good. Just desserts.
    Can you explain why? Its Afghanistan who shouldn't be there. Is what they are doing to women not worse than apartheid?
    Because we are validating their position in international sport by playing against them. We should not be seeking to normalise their regime.
    I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately you were attacking professional sportsmen representing their country. If the tournament allows Afghanistan in, the government doesn’t say ‘don’t go’, the ECB don’t say ‘don’t go’, then I don’t see why they should be the ones to take the stand.
    Do you agree with boycotting apartheid South Africa?
    Yes, and I would rather Afghanistan were banned. We have double standards everywhere in sport right now. I just think it’s unfair on the players.
    C'mon man. We played World Cups in Russia, Qatar, and will do in Saudi if we qualify. Olympics in China and Russia too.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.
    There’s F1 in Bahrain and Azaerbaijan.

    Ireland have just finished a cricket tour of Zimbabwe.

    You’re right.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,331

    Nigelb said:

    Of course Chagos Deal will come out the defence budget, it’s a no brainer, is it even a question to ask and non answer give? All the British Tax Payer gets from Chagos deal is security and defence of the realm, not budget holiday destination, so what other budget could it possibly come out of?

    I thought you'd seen the light on the Chagos Deal - I suppose Starmer cheerleading is a bigger priority for you than facts.
    We’re planning to swap it for Greenland …
    As part of original Greenland deal of Danish ownership, UK get first dibs if Denmark put Greenland up for sale? So maybe it’s the new “Chagos” example of UK being USA’s colonial bitch? If UK buys Greenland, ethnically cleanses it of Greenlanders, and US puts a military base on it, it’s identical to controversial 1960’s Chagos deal, our NATO allies won’t support us on?

    Is it possible Ukraine precious earth deal with US started as Ukraine offer to US? With the costs involved to get meaningful extraction and processing, destroying profit margins to meagre returns all round, Ukraine have mugged Trumps White House with security commitments with “nothing
    much” in return for US?
    The rare earth revenues are allocated to a fund owned by the US and Ukraine.

    They can only be spent in Ukraine…

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Ukraine war will be over shortly. Gaza won't be.

    The war will go from boiling to simmering, and then become a frozen one.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,003

    Foxy said:

    Chagos deal off if Trumpski doesn't like it - Lammy.

    Edit: Could get complicate as when he asks Putin what to do, Putin may need instructions from Bejing.

    So UK has completely outsourced its foreign policy to Trump now?
    Diego Garcia is valueless except as a secure US airbase in the centre of the Indian Ocean. Of course America gets a large say in it.
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1894803940069245413

    “If President Trump doesn’t like the deal, the deal will not go forward”

    Foreign Secretary @DavidLammy suggests that Trump has a veto on the Chagos Island deal
    Hopefully a reporter will ask Trump his thoughts on the deal in the presser. Will be fun to see his reply.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Chagos deal off if Trumpski doesn't like it - Lammy.

    Edit: Could get complicate as when he asks Putin what to do, Putin may need instructions from Bejing.

    So UK has completely outsourced its foreign policy to Trump now?
    Diego Garcia is valueless except as a secure US airbase in the centre of the Indian Ocean. Of course America gets a large say in it.
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1894803940069245413

    “If President Trump doesn’t like the deal, the deal will not go forward”

    Foreign Secretary @DavidLammy suggests that Trump has a veto on the Chagos Island deal
    Ultimately, it's their island not ours.
    Sure, but we currently serve as the name on the paperwork, and I guess it depends who they want to serve as the face.
  • viewcode said:

    A question I meant to ask a few days ago and forgot.

    I see Carney had a bit of an issue during a French language election debate. Is it a requirement for all politicians above a certain level to be fluent bilingual in Canada?

    I think so. When Trudeau resigned, I looked at some of the other Canadian politicians and they all had bilingual bios in their Twitter. However what is true now is not necessarily true yesterday, so I looked at the twitter bio of some past ones
    • 2021: Con leader Erin O'Toole: Father • Husband • Proud Canadian | Père - Mari - Fier Canadien
    • 2019: Con leader Andrew Scheer: Regina—Qu'Appelle MP. 2nd Conservative Party Leader and 35th HOC Speaker. Principled Conservative. Defender of economic freedom and human rights.
    • 2015: Con leader Stephen Harper: Official Twitter account for Canada's 22nd Prime Minister. | Compte Twitter officiel du 22e Premier ministre du Canada
    • 2015: New Democratic leader Thomas Mulcair: Professeur d’université, avocat et commentateur politique University Professor, attorney and political Commentator.
    • 2011: New Democratic leader Jack Layton: (deceased)
    • 2011: Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff: Writer,historian,professor and former politician (he lost)
    Looking further afield it appears that every Canadian PM since Lester Pearson (63-68) has been at least functually bilingual, and since Jean Chrétien (93-03) has been fluently bilingual, although Chrétien's strong French accent made his English laboured.

    The key text[1] is "Since rise of Quebec nationalism (following the Quiet Revolution [circa 1960–1966], and especially the introduction of official bilingualism in the Official Languages Act in 1969 and its entrenchment in the Constitution of 1982, Canadian prime ministers (and party leaders as potential prime ministers) have been expected to be functionally bilingual by convention. An important factor in this trend has been the creation of the televised leaders' debates, which are held in separately in French and English."

    So yes, bilingualism is important for Canadian politicians. If Carney's French is below a certain level it'll be a problem.

    Notes
    [1] https://en.everybodywiki.com/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Canada_by_languages_spoken
    [2] https://www.quora.com/Was-there-ever-a-non-bilingual-Canadian-PM-in-recent-history
    [3] Note: Stephen Harper/Con was PM from 2006 to 2015, Justin Trudeau/Lib was PM from 2015 to 2025
    Quebec is NOT part of the Anglosphere. Excluding Quebec increases Canada's English-speaking (Home Language) majority from 68% to 80% (compare 78% USA, 91% Blighty, 72% Australia, 83% Ireland, 95% NZ).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    Foxy said:

    Looks like the Afghanistan cricket team are going to beat England's. That means England are out of the Champions Trophy.

    Good. Just desserts.
    Can you explain why? Its Afghanistan who shouldn't be there. Is what they are doing to women not worse than apartheid?
    Because we are validating their position in international sport by playing against them. We should not be seeking to normalise their regime.
    I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately you were attacking professional sportsmen representing their country. If the tournament allows Afghanistan in, the government doesn’t say ‘don’t go’, the ECB don’t say ‘don’t go’, then I don’t see why they should be the ones to take the stand.
    Do you agree with boycotting apartheid South Africa?
    Yes, and I would rather Afghanistan were banned. We have double standards everywhere in sport right now. I just think it’s unfair on the players.
    C'mon man. We played World Cups in Russia, Qatar, and will do in Saudi if we qualify. Olympics in China and Russia too.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.
    Dictatorships and absolute monarchies should be banned from World Cups and Olympics.
    Maybe, but many a dictatorship or absolute monarchy will deny being so (indeed, most at least pretend to be democratic and that democracy is a good thing, though a few are becoming more honest about this), and given how many there are, and how many are at best 'partially free' on various international freedom indices, non-dictatorships will swiftly become outnumbered.

    They'll just hold their own events. Probably calling them the people's democratic olympic games or something.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,109
    edited February 26
    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dumber than a bag of rare earth minerals...

    @faisalislam
    NEW:

    What if the EU retaliates?

    Trump: “They can’t. They can try, but they can’t… the numbers can never equal us… they can retaliate , but it cannot be a successful retaliation, because we just go cold turkey we dont buy any more and if that happens, we win”.

    This is hurting my brain. If the EU sets tariffs it reduces US sales to Europe, it doesn't impact EU sales to the US. It's Trump's tariffs that does that. What an I missing?
    I think he’s saying if the EU puts tariffs on US goods they will *ban* imports from Europe

    Given there are hundreds of CCGTs in the US that use Siemens turbines, and which will stop working if they don't get replacement parts, that's quite a stupid threat, unless you want electricity prices to go through the roof.

    (Not to mention hospitals that rely on Philips kit, or automakers who use Infineon chips.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    It seems like an attempt to make racists feel better about themselves, as it's just not probable your average white english person could delineate their heritage sufficiently to be sure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Chagos deal off if Trumpski doesn't like it - Lammy.

    Edit: Could get complicate as when he asks Putin what to do, Putin may need instructions from Bejing.

    So UK has completely outsourced its foreign policy to Trump now?
    Diego Garcia is valueless except as a secure US airbase in the centre of the Indian Ocean. Of course America gets a large say in it.
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1894803940069245413

    “If President Trump doesn’t like the deal, the deal will not go forward”

    Foreign Secretary @DavidLammy suggests that Trump has a veto on the Chagos Island deal
    Hopefully a reporter will ask Trump his thoughts on the deal in the presser. Will be fun to see his reply.
    He'd say he'd get a better deal. Might even be true.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,318
    Foxy said:

    Looks like the Afghanistan cricket team are going to beat England's. That means England are out of the Champions Trophy.

    Good. Just desserts.
    Can you explain why? Its Afghanistan who shouldn't be there. Is what they are doing to women not worse than apartheid?
    Because we are validating their position in international sport by playing against them. We should not be seeking to normalise their regime.
    I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately you were attacking professional sportsmen representing their country. If the tournament allows Afghanistan in, the government doesn’t say ‘don’t go’, the ECB don’t say ‘don’t go’, then I don’t see why they should be the ones to take the stand.
    Do you agree with boycotting apartheid South Africa?
    Yes, and I would rather Afghanistan were banned. We have double standards everywhere in sport right now. I just think it’s unfair on the players.
    C'mon man. We played World Cups in Russia, Qatar, and will do in Saudi if we qualify. Olympics in China and Russia too.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.
    So why are some saying our cricketers shouldn’t have played today? Which was my point really.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.

    Sheeple. Seems to have fallen out of fashion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    They'll take back this island one day, pick a side!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,143
    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run
  • How JD Vance is like David Cameron – Rory Stewart on TRiP (75 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hOSZOBUl_W0
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,491
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    They'll take back this island one day, pick a side!
    The greater cornish empire is waiting its time to emerge
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    edited February 26

    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run

    I feel like you're baiting people with that quote. Or he is.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482
    kle4 said:

    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.

    Sheeple. Seems to have fallen out of fashion.
    Very sadly, the Sheeple-people were all overcome by Bill Gates and his 5G ray-gun.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407
    edited February 26

    Foxy said:

    Looks like the Afghanistan cricket team are going to beat England's. That means England are out of the Champions Trophy.

    Good. Just desserts.
    Can you explain why? Its Afghanistan who shouldn't be there. Is what they are doing to women not worse than apartheid?
    Because we are validating their position in international sport by playing against them. We should not be seeking to normalise their regime.
    I understand where you are coming from, but ultimately you were attacking professional sportsmen representing their country. If the tournament allows Afghanistan in, the government doesn’t say ‘don’t go’, the ECB don’t say ‘don’t go’, then I don’t see why they should be the ones to take the stand.
    Do you agree with boycotting apartheid South Africa?
    Yes, and I would rather Afghanistan were banned. We have double standards everywhere in sport right now. I just think it’s unfair on the players.
    C'mon man. We played World Cups in Russia, Qatar, and will do in Saudi if we qualify. Olympics in China and Russia too.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.
    So why are some saying our cricketers shouldn’t have played today? Which was my point really.
    I think it's that the ICC is failing to enforce its own rules that nations must field teams of both sexes (or is it genders? I am not a cricket fan).

    There is an argument that sporting links can be an icebreaker in thawing regimes. Forrest Gump going to China for example. I think it depends on the circumstances. Is the tournament a way of driving co operation or of showing off its regime, like the 1936 Berlin Olympics?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    viewcode said:

    A question I meant to ask a few days ago and forgot.

    I see Carney had a bit of an issue during a French language election debate. Is it a requirement for all politicians above a certain level to be fluent bilingual in Canada?

    I think so. When Trudeau resigned, I looked at some of the other Canadian politicians and they all had bilingual bios in their Twitter. However what is true now is not necessarily true yesterday, so I looked at the twitter bio of some past ones
    • 2021: Con leader Erin O'Toole: Father • Husband • Proud Canadian | Père - Mari - Fier Canadien
    • 2019: Con leader Andrew Scheer: Regina—Qu'Appelle MP. 2nd Conservative Party Leader and 35th HOC Speaker. Principled Conservative. Defender of economic freedom and human rights.
    • 2015: Con leader Stephen Harper: Official Twitter account for Canada's 22nd Prime Minister. | Compte Twitter officiel du 22e Premier ministre du Canada
    • 2015: New Democratic leader Thomas Mulcair: Professeur d’université, avocat et commentateur politique University Professor, attorney and political Commentator.
    • 2011: New Democratic leader Jack Layton: (deceased)
    • 2011: Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff: Writer,historian,professor and former politician (he lost)
    Looking further afield it appears that every Canadian PM since Lester Pearson (63-68) has been at least functually bilingual, and since Jean Chrétien (93-03) has been fluently bilingual, although Chrétien's strong French accent made his English laboured.

    The key text[1] is "Since rise of Quebec nationalism (following the Quiet Revolution [circa 1960–1966], and especially the introduction of official bilingualism in the Official Languages Act in 1969 and its entrenchment in the Constitution of 1982, Canadian prime ministers (and party leaders as potential prime ministers) have been expected to be functionally bilingual by convention. An important factor in this trend has been the creation of the televised leaders' debates, which are held in separately in French and English."

    So yes, bilingualism is important for Canadian politicians. If Carney's French is below a certain level it'll be a problem.

    Notes
    [1] https://en.everybodywiki.com/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Canada_by_languages_spoken
    [2] https://www.quora.com/Was-there-ever-a-non-bilingual-Canadian-PM-in-recent-history
    [3] Note: Stephen Harper/Con was PM from 2006 to 2015, Justin Trudeau/Lib was PM from 2015 to 2025
    Quebec is NOT part of the Anglosphere. Excluding Quebec increases Canada's English-speaking (Home Language) majority from 68% to 80% (compare 78% USA, 91% Blighty, 72% Australia, 83% Ireland, 95% NZ).
    An excellent response, only slightly spoilt by its irrelevance to the post I made... :)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,249
    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.

    Sheeple. Seems to have fallen out of fashion.
    Very sadly, the Sheeple-people were all overcome by Bill Gates and his 5G ray-gun.
    Yes, I’ve not seen “WAKE UP, SHEEPLE”, in a while.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,331
    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dumber than a bag of rare earth minerals...

    @faisalislam
    NEW:

    What if the EU retaliates?

    Trump: “They can’t. They can try, but they can’t… the numbers can never equal us… they can retaliate , but it cannot be a successful retaliation, because we just go cold turkey we dont buy any more and if that happens, we win”.

    This is hurting my brain. If the EU sets tariffs it reduces US sales to Europe, it doesn't impact EU sales to the US. It's Trump's tariffs that does that. What an I missing?
    I think he’s saying if the EU puts tariffs on US goods they will *ban* imports from Europe

    Given there are hundreds of CCGTs in the US that use Siemens turbines, and which will stop working if they don't get replacement parts, that's quite a stupid threat, unless you want electricity prices to go through the roof.

    (Not to mention hospitals that rely on Philips
    kit, or automakers who use Infineon chips.)
    Since when has stupidity been a limit condition?

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    Unfair to those of us who are partly Neanderthal, too.
    Really though, when you look beyond the short term. Aren't we all Beaker People under the skin?

    I own a beaker. I watched many episodes of The Muppets featuring 'Beaker'. I'm not sure I can prove myself more before Suella changes tack once again.

    And by 'changes tack' I mean "wildly swings from one view to another".
  • How JD Vance is like David Cameron – Rory Stewart on TRiP (75 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hOSZOBUl_W0

    He really does imply that Cameron was a vacuous prat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Might be true, but the 'Trump's hometown' jibe is pretty blatant desperation.

    Mark Carney said he had nothing to do with Brookfield moving their HQ out of Canada to Trump's hometown of New York City.

    Documents show he chaired the board meeting that "unanimously determined" the move, taking jobs away from Canadians. His name is on the letter urging shareholders to approve the move.

    Why did Mark Carney lie about his decision to sell out Canadian jobs?

    https://nitter.poast.org/PierrePoilievre/status/1894774935337185743#m
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407
    Pagan2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    They'll take back this island one day, pick a side!
    The greater cornish empire is waiting its time to emerge
    There is no England, only occupied Wales.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,912

    How JD Vance is like David Cameron – Rory Stewart on TRiP (75 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hOSZOBUl_W0

    He really does imply that Cameron was a vacuous prat.
    who wouldn't.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407
    edited February 26

    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run

    Even Trump can occasionally get things right, like a stopped clock giving the correct time.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    TimS said:

    Sean_F said:

    TimS said:

    Reflecting on that despicable Gaza video Trump posted, as I’d been wandering what it reminded me of. And I realised it is the aesthetic straight out of the coffee table book Dictators’ Homes by Peter York, mixed with a dose of Turkmenbashi.

    The book is a hideous classic. Full page spreads of the distinctly non-IKEA interiors of the presidential palaces of the likes of Mobutu, Saddam, Ceausescu and Noriega.
    There seems to be something about being a narcissistic autocrat that correlates with exceptionally bad taste and a love of lurid kitsch.

    Watching it, I wondered, was it a parody or not?

    Dictator aesthetic seems very much a poor man’s idea of how a rich man lives.

    Whereas, the richest man of my acquaintance drives a seven year old Saab, and wears old suits and cardigans.
    I’m sure Trump thought it was funny, which tells you a lot about the man’s sick mindset.
    I think he thought it was a realistic prediction about Gaza.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,461

    HYUFD said:

    It's basically another complete waste of defence spend, like Trident but without the veneer of usefulness.

    Beyond the deterrent role, Trident is actually a fairly good guarantee nobody will ever try an amphibious invasion of the UK or Ireland from the west. Nice invasion fleet you have there Mr Trump, shame if we were to drop an ICBM on it...
    We would never use Trident that way.
    IIRC Trident has some interesting modes - depressed trajectory shot is one of them. *minimum* range is an interesting question.

    Since we’ve reduced the number of warheads on most of them, you can actually reach near orbit - so you can do hilarious stuff like fire in the opposite direction, go most of the way round, and hit a target 200 miles away. From behind, as it were.

  • So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    maxh said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    Dumber than a bag of rare earth minerals...

    @faisalislam
    NEW:

    What if the EU retaliates?

    Trump: “They can’t. They can try, but they can’t… the numbers can never equal us… they can retaliate , but it cannot be a successful retaliation, because we just go cold turkey we dont buy any more and if that happens, we win”.

    I hope the EU responds or at least stands up to him
    Britain is your team, not the EU.
    To be frank, I increasingly feel I don't have a team.

    Take the aid/defence decision as one example. I can see it is good politics and has gone down well with you eminently sensible chaps on here. We probably need lots more decisions in this vein to blunt the appeal of Reform and the deranged fools the other side of the Atlantic.

    And, if push came to shove, I'd fight for UK against an enemy.

    Yet I would like to live in a society that was prepared to tighten our own belts at a time when money is needed, not remove it from the sorts of programmes that save and improve lives so remarkably cheaply (even if you factor in waste within the development field).

    Most specifically, I think many of the more wealthy citizens of UK have utterly lost our way, threatening to up sticks and move to somewhere that will better indulge our selfish desire to keep more of our own wealth, rather than recognising the almost unquantifiable value we all get from living in probably the most prosperous, safe and free society that has existed in human history, which our taxes help sustain.
    They want constant coddling and lavishing praise, on top of being wealthy.

    I'm not saying every rich person (ie those wealthier than me) should be taxed of all their money or that people should automatically be super patriotic, but in general it feels like as a society rich and poor alike don't have any shared sentimentality about nations anymore*, but it hasn't been replaced with anything more universal.

    * or go to opposite extremes of national self flagellation or rosy eyed nostalgic boomerism.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407

    Nigelb said:

    Of course Chagos Deal will come out the defence budget, it’s a no brainer, is it even a question to ask and non answer give? All the British Tax Payer gets from Chagos deal is security and defence of the realm, not budget holiday destination, so what other budget could it possibly come out of?

    I thought you'd seen the light on the Chagos Deal - I suppose Starmer cheerleading is a bigger priority for you than facts.
    We’re planning to swap it for Greenland …
    As part of original Greenland deal of Danish ownership, UK get first dibs if Denmark put Greenland up for sale? So maybe it’s the new “Chagos” example of UK being USA’s colonial bitch? If UK buys Greenland, ethnically cleanses it of Greenlanders, and US puts a military base on it, it’s identical to controversial 1960’s Chagos deal, our NATO allies won’t support us on?

    Is it possible Ukraine precious earth deal with US started as Ukraine offer to US? With the costs involved to get meaningful extraction and processing, destroying profit margins to meagre returns all round, Ukraine have mugged Trumps White House with security commitments with “nothing
    much” in return for US?
    The rare earth revenues are allocated to a fund owned by the US and Ukraine.

    They can only be spent in Ukraine…

    If Ukraine gets some security guarantees out of it to protect those joint assets then Zelensky has pulled off the deal of the century.

    I saw on C4 news that "rare earths" are 90% refined in China, even those mined in the USA, so perhaps a big refinery in Ukraine would be a suitable investment.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    Or maybe the number of Palestinian hostages is huge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Of course Chagos Deal will come out the defence budget, it’s a no brainer, is it even a question to ask and non answer give? All the British Tax Payer gets from Chagos deal is security and defence of the realm, not budget holiday destination, so what other budget could it possibly come out of?

    I thought you'd seen the light on the Chagos Deal - I suppose Starmer cheerleading is a bigger priority for you than facts.
    We’re planning to swap it for Greenland …
    As part of original Greenland deal of Danish ownership, UK get first dibs if Denmark put Greenland up for sale? So maybe it’s the new “Chagos” example of UK being USA’s colonial bitch? If UK buys Greenland, ethnically cleanses it of Greenlanders, and US puts a military base on it, it’s identical to controversial 1960’s Chagos deal, our NATO allies won’t support us on?

    Is it possible Ukraine precious earth deal with US started as Ukraine offer to US? With the costs involved to get meaningful extraction and processing, destroying profit margins to meagre returns all round, Ukraine have mugged Trumps White House with security commitments with “nothing
    much” in return for US?
    The rare earth revenues are allocated to a fund owned by the US and Ukraine.

    They can only be spent in Ukraine…

    If Ukraine gets some security guarantees out of it to protect those joint assets then Zelensky has pulled off the deal of the century.

    I saw on C4 news that "rare earths" are 90% refined in China, even those mined in the USA, so perhaps a big refinery in Ukraine would be a suitable investment.
    The Grand Trump Hotel and Statue will be built on the edge of the current frontlines, lined with explosives if the Russians advance beyond those lines. That will guarantee no break of an enforced stalemate until Trump moves on.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    I've just put something with pineapple on it in the oven...

    I'm having one of these:

    https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/crosta-mollica-stromboli-sourdough-pizza/874701-805705-805706

    Very decent, but one of those tiresome products which is overpriced when not on offer.
    Wonderful. Mine isn't pizza..
    A ham? Worse than putting it on Pizza.
    Baked salmon with pineapple. Served with coconut rice and pak choi.
    Couple of slices of Venison salami and you've got yourself a winning pizza right there.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    How JD Vance is like David Cameron – Rory Stewart on TRiP (75 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hOSZOBUl_W0

    He really does imply that Cameron was a vacuous prat.
    Which is why being Sunak's Foreign Secretary suited him so well. Lots of nice travel, nice meals, say something good-sounding, do very little of note and any time he did something dangerous Sunak could stop him.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,461
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    It seems like an attempt to make racists feel better about themselves, as it's just not probable your average white english person could delineate their heritage sufficiently to be sure.
    Back in the 90s, at UCL, the progressive lot were very hot for the idea of no assimilation. They got very upset when I referred to some people as British.

    British because they were born here and had the passport etc*.

    Apparently this was denying them their identity or something.

    Funny how this stuff goes in circles.

    *fans of Cap’n Hook
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    Sean_F said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.

    Sheeple. Seems to have fallen out of fashion.
    Very sadly, the Sheeple-people were all overcome by Bill Gates and his 5G ray-gun.
    Yes, I’ve not seen “WAKE UP, SHEEPLE”, in a while.
    I don't think we ever saw it on PB as much as Twitter. Similarly "NPC"s, which mercifully we eschew. PB is much smarter than Twitter. :)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,461

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    The ratios in these exchanges have always been like that. The remain of one Israeli pilot for sagans of released detainees etc. it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    It seems like an attempt to make racists feel better about themselves, as it's just not probable your average white english person could delineate their heritage sufficiently to be sure.
    Back in the 90s, at UCL, the progressive lot were very hot for the idea of no assimilation. They got very upset when I referred to some people as British.

    British because they were born here and had the passport etc*.

    Apparently this was denying them their identity or something.

    Funny how this stuff goes in circles.

    *fans of Cap’n Hook
    Magnification of (perceived) differences and historic grievances is the key to harmony!
  • Foxy said:

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    Or maybe the number of Palestinian hostages is huge.
    I don't doubt that the Israeli military arrest anyone they don't like the look of.

    But its still crap deal making to have such an unbalanced exchange.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run

    On the last month or so ?

    Bit harsh on himself. But fair.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,546
    I am sure on a board of fellow nerds, there will be some other aficionados of Bostrom's simulation argument (https://simulation-argument.com/).

    Whilst indulging in a gentle lament that I no longer have enough free hours in my life to play Civilization, it struck me that, when I did have time to play, I would sometimes build my civilisation up to a peak of performance, such that all different avenues of winning were open to me (winning the space race, diplomatic victory etc) and then, just for the fun of it, go on a relentless military rampage, combined with burning all my diplomatic bridges at once, just to see if my civilisation could wipe out all the others before anyone else build their space ship to Alpha Centauri.

    Is there not extremely compelling circumstantial evidence that we are currently within a simulation in which our future-human player has decided to see whether USA can replicate my rather destructive whims?

    I'm not sure whether this adds to my evening's melancholy or dissipates it. But I have a glass of Lagavulin next to me so all is not quite lost yet.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,482

    Foxy said:

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    Or maybe the number of Palestinian hostages is huge.
    I don't doubt that the Israeli military arrest anyone they don't like the look of.

    But its still crap deal making to have such an unbalanced exchange.
    "A free pager for every released prisoner!".....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    The ratios in these exchanges have always been like that. The remain of one Israeli pilot for sagans of released detainees etc. it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.
    Expression of power.
    Casualty rates tend to follow a similar ratio, obviously.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
  • So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    The ratios in these exchanges have always been like that. The remain of one Israeli pilot for sagans of released detainees etc. it’s been that way for as long as I can remember.
    It has but all it does is then encourage more hostage taking.

    So ultimately self defeating unless the plan is to have the Israeli population under a continuous state of threat.

    Which it might well be - 'keep them keen to make them mean' so to speak.
  • Labour want Trump to kill the Chagos deal. So that’s that then.

    The Canadian Tories are what is in store for Reform should they ally with Trump any further.
  • malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    Thick more so than sick.

    Its a good idea to weaken other countries which are threats and rivals.

    And Russia will always be a threat and rival to the USA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Trump: I will not comment on whether China should not take Taiwan by force.
    https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1894813356558819580

    Seems pretty unambiguous to me.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,558

    Foxy said:

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    Or maybe the number of Palestinian hostages is huge.
    I don't doubt that the Israeli military arrest anyone they don't like the look of.

    But its still crap deal making to have such an unbalanced exchange.
    I'm sure that Israel will be keeping tabs on the serious Hamas faces who are being released. Once all of the hostages are out, these lads might be receiving an unwelcome visit.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,961

    So if 4 dead Israelis now equal 600 live Palestinians does that mean Israeli lives are now worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives or merely that BennyN is crap at negotiating ?

    ‘Twas ever thus, they exchanged 1000 plus Palestinians for one IDF guy in 2011.
    Entirely coincidentally Bibi & co do think Israeli lives are worth infinitely more than Palestinian lives.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,991
    Nigelb said:

    Trump: I will not comment on whether China should not take Taiwan by force.
    https://x.com/unusual_whales/status/1894813356558819580

    Seems pretty unambiguous to me.

    That's leadership by the senior figure in the west, eh?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,936
    Has Putin or anyone around him expressed an opinion about the Ukraine-US minerals deal?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,991
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    Trump's ego is bigger. Trump's number is Graham's number raised to the power of "bigly"....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,991
    geoffw said:

    Has Putin or anyone around him expressed an opinion about the Ukraine-US minerals deal?

    Let's just say the guy who gave him the news fell out of an 8th storey window....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dumber than a bag of rare earth minerals...

    @faisalislam
    NEW:

    What if the EU retaliates?

    Trump: “They can’t. They can try, but they can’t… the numbers can never equal us… they can retaliate , but it cannot be a successful retaliation, because we just go cold turkey we dont buy any more and if that happens, we win”.

    This is hurting my brain. If the EU sets tariffs it reduces US sales to Europe, it doesn't impact EU sales to the US. It's Trump's tariffs that does that. What an I missing?
    I think he’s saying if the EU puts tariffs on US goods they will *ban* imports from Europe

    Given there are hundreds of CCGTs in the US that use Siemens turbines, and which will stop working if they don't get replacement parts, that's quite a stupid threat, unless you want electricity prices to go through the roof.

    (Not to mention hospitals that rely on Philips kit, or automakers who use Infineon chips.)
    Just stock up first.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,672
    For anyone out there who loves a good RTS there's a new one on the horizon called Tempest Rising, there's a demo on Steam and it's basically a new version of C&C, had an absolute blast with it earlier today when the kids were at nursery.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,912
    Foxy said:

    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run

    Even Trump can occasionally get things right, like a stopped clock giving the correct time.
    I thought he was talking about himself.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,558
    Some prankster comedian appears to have gatecrashed Trump's cabinet meeting.

    If only...
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    maxh said:

    I am sure on a board of fellow nerds, there will be some other aficionados of Bostrom's simulation argument (https://simulation-argument.com/).

    Whilst indulging in a gentle lament that I no longer have enough free hours in my life to play Civilization, it struck me that, when I did have time to play, I would sometimes build my civilisation up to a peak of performance, such that all different avenues of winning were open to me (winning the space race, diplomatic victory etc) and then, just for the fun of it, go on a relentless military rampage, combined with burning all my diplomatic bridges at once, just to see if my civilisation could wipe out all the others before anyone else build their space ship to Alpha Centauri.

    Is there not extremely compelling circumstantial evidence that we are currently within a simulation in which our future-human player has decided to see whether USA can replicate my rather destructive whims?

    I'm not sure whether this adds to my evening's melancholy or dissipates it. But I have a glass of Lagavulin next to me so all is not quite lost yet.

    As a true nerd the only Bostrom I have heard of is Arthur Bostrom who played the ‘Good Moaning’ PC in Allo Allo.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157

    https://x.com/acyn/status/1894806912845369778

    Trump: This country has gotten bloated and fat and disgusting and incompetently run

    Confusing himself with the US again
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,143

    Labour want Trump to kill the Chagos deal. So that’s that then.

    The Canadian Tories are what is in store for Reform should they ally with Trump any further.

    It's Labour visibly dancing to Trump's tune.

    I think they are making a mistake in trying to reuse the New Labour playbook. Back then they could rely on both the tribal Labour vote and the ideological left having nowhere else to go, but that no longer holds and they risk just looking like a poor man's Reform and not appealing to anyone.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,189
    edited February 26
    kle4 said:

    Might be true, but the 'Trump's hometown' jibe is pretty blatant desperation.

    Mark Carney said he had nothing to do with Brookfield moving their HQ out of Canada to Trump's hometown of New York City.

    Documents show he chaired the board meeting that "unanimously determined" the move, taking jobs away from Canadians. His name is on the letter urging shareholders to approve the move.

    Why did Mark Carney lie about his decision to sell out Canadian jobs?

    https://nitter.poast.org/PierrePoilievre/status/1894774935337185743#m

    Screwed would we say?

    Not because it's "Trump’s home town" but because it is proof positive that Carney is just a globalist who doesn't give a flying f*** about Canada, let alone the even more ludicrous idea that he gave a f*** about the UK on his well-paid visit here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    edited February 26
    MaxPB said:

    For anyone out there who loves a good RTS there's a new one on the horizon called Tempest Rising, there's a demo on Steam and it's basically a new version of C&C, had an absolute blast with it earlier today when the kids were at nursery.

    I feel like there hasn't been much love for RTS games for years, though I'm probably wrong as I'm not as up to date as I used to be.

    I like that demos are more of a thing again.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,912

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    Thick more so than sick.

    Its a good idea to weaken other countries which are threats and rivals.

    And Russia will always be a threat and rival to the USA.
    So thick and sick
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,143
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    kle4 said:

    Might be true, but the 'Trump's hometown' jibe is pretty blatant desperation.

    Mark Carney said he had nothing to do with Brookfield moving their HQ out of Canada to Trump's hometown of New York City.

    Documents show he chaired the board meeting that "unanimously determined" the move, taking jobs away from Canadians. His name is on the letter urging shareholders to approve the move.

    Why did Mark Carney lie about his decision to sell out Canadian jobs?

    https://nitter.poast.org/PierrePoilievre/status/1894774935337185743#m

    Screwed would we say?

    Not because it's "Trump’s home town" but because it is proof positive that Carney is just a globalist who doesn't give a flying f*** about Canada, let alone the even more ludicrous idea that he gave a f*** about the UK on his well-paid visit here.
    I don't really know why the unelected Carney would have been such a frontrunner anyway but it seemed to be the case, but if this is true it's a pretty hard blow to land, so we should find out how much substance there was to his campaign I guess.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,189
    viewcode said:

    How JD Vance is like David Cameron – Rory Stewart on TRiP (75 seconds):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hOSZOBUl_W0

    He really does imply that Cameron was a vacuous prat.
    Which is why being Sunak's Foreign Secretary suited him so well. Lots of nice travel, nice meals, say something good-sounding, do very little of note and any time he did something dangerous Sunak could stop him.
    That's a big misreading of it imho. Cameron was disinterred to look after the Sunak Government when it became clear that Sunak couldn't cope day to day.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,507
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Chagos deal off if Trumpski doesn't like it - Lammy.

    Edit: Could get complicate as when he asks Putin what to do, Putin may need instructions from Bejing.

    So UK has completely outsourced its foreign policy to Trump now?
    Diego Garcia is valueless except as a secure US airbase in the centre of the Indian Ocean. Of course America gets a large say in it.
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1894803940069245413

    “If President Trump doesn’t like the deal, the deal will not go forward”

    Foreign Secretary @DavidLammy suggests that Trump has a veto on the Chagos Island deal
    Hopefully a reporter will ask Trump his thoughts on the deal in the presser. Will be fun to see his reply.
    Methinks Labour is looking for a face-saving way out of the deal: “So sorry, Trump will throw a fit if we do this now Mauritius & we just can’t afford to piss him off right now. Lets just park it till the next US president turns up.”
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 16,907
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    Midwits is such a midwit term.
    See also “normies”, “civilians”, and “NPCs”.

    Sheeple. Seems to have fallen out of fashion.
    Very sadly, the Sheeple-people were all overcome by Bill Gates and his 5G ray-gun.
    Yes, I’ve not seen “WAKE UP, SHEEPLE”, in a while.
    I don't think we ever saw it on PB as much as Twitter. Similarly "NPC"s, which mercifully we eschew. PB is much smarter than Twitter. :)
    Don’t see much mention of LARPing here too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    It big
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    To be honest, because of my blended ancestry I tend to identify as either British or European on forms rather than English.

    I do sometimes mix it up by identifying as "white other", or simply "other" when the mood takes me. Certain other demographics can be quite random too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Phil said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Chagos deal off if Trumpski doesn't like it - Lammy.

    Edit: Could get complicate as when he asks Putin what to do, Putin may need instructions from Bejing.

    So UK has completely outsourced its foreign policy to Trump now?
    Diego Garcia is valueless except as a secure US airbase in the centre of the Indian Ocean. Of course America gets a large say in it.
    https://x.com/itvpeston/status/1894803940069245413

    “If President Trump doesn’t like the deal, the deal will not go forward”

    Foreign Secretary @DavidLammy suggests that Trump has a veto on the Chagos Island deal
    Hopefully a reporter will ask Trump his thoughts on the deal in the presser. Will be fun to see his reply.
    Methinks Labour is looking for a face-saving way out of the deal: “So sorry, Trump will throw a fit if we do this now Mauritius & we just can’t afford to piss him off right now. Lets just park it till the next US president turns up.”
    I could buy that - try to get some 'reputational' benefit whilst actually doing nothing - though I don't think it would fool anyone, and so would make the supposed goal of reputational benefits in the first place pretty meaningless. And if the security reasoning were the true driver, then presumably they'd be genuinely distraught if Trump effectively vetoed it - there were too many reports that they were desperate to get it over the line before he came in for me to believe they don't really want to.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,546
    Taz said:

    maxh said:

    I am sure on a board of fellow nerds, there will be some other aficionados of Bostrom's simulation argument (https://simulation-argument.com/).

    Whilst indulging in a gentle lament that I no longer have enough free hours in my life to play Civilization, it struck me that, when I did have time to play, I would sometimes build my civilisation up to a peak of performance, such that all different avenues of winning were open to me (winning the space race, diplomatic victory etc) and then, just for the fun of it, go on a relentless military rampage, combined with burning all my diplomatic bridges at once, just to see if my civilisation could wipe out all the others before anyone else build their space ship to Alpha Centauri.

    Is there not extremely compelling circumstantial evidence that we are currently within a simulation in which our future-human player has decided to see whether USA can replicate my rather destructive whims?

    I'm not sure whether this adds to my evening's melancholy or dissipates it. But I have a glass of Lagavulin next to me so all is not quite lost yet.

    As a true nerd the only Bostrom I have heard of is Arthur Bostrom who played the ‘Good Moaning’ PC in Allo Allo.
    Nick Bostrom makes a reasonably convincing argument that it is statistically far more likely that our world is a computer simulation being run by future humans with rather more computing power than us, rather than the real thing.

    It's quite comforting at times such as this.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018
    Back on Carney, I never seem to stumble onto mention of whoever the other Liberal candidates are when scrolling the internet, so either twitter is very much not real life in this case, or he's so far in front everyone else is an also-ran and it doesn't matter what might emerge against him - other than the Tories there hoping it will hamstring him in the upcoming election and restore their advantage which Trump has wrecked.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    You don't have to have a past, but you do have to have a future. Nationality is like marriage: it's a commitment to stand and fight for your country. This is why I get so pissed off when UK politicians go to the States (Nick Clegg, David Miliband, Liz Truss).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,836
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Quite.

    In fact, I suspect very few have "ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."

    Unless the story is "I was born in Watford".
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,318
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Quite.

    In fact, I suspect very few have "ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."

    Unless the story is "I was born in Watford".
    Yes and no. Both my parents families are Wiltshire a very long way back, and I live here still. I do feel some link to the place and it's past. Nebulous but real.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,331
    edited February 26
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Quite.

    In fact, I suspect very few have "ancestral
    stories tied to the towns or villages of this
    land."

    Unless the story is "I was born in Watford".
    Friend of mine’s ancestor caught the reins of William the bastard’s horse one day and stopped it bolting. His descendants are still farming the land he was given as a reward

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,658
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    I am not a maths person, but something similar and simple can be expressed as self evident, assuming the 'observable universe' is finite: There is no highest number, number being infinitely extended; it therefore follows that the digital, space occupying however small, representation of a sufficiently large number is bound to take up more space than a finite universe, however large. This renders me no wiser.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 64,666
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    It big
    Trump wants it renamed 'Trump Number'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,018

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Quite.

    In fact, I suspect very few have "ancestral
    stories tied to the towns or villages of this
    land."

    Unless the story is "I was born in Watford".
    Friend of mine’s ancestor caught the reins of William the bastard’s horse one day and stopped it bolting. His descendants are still farming the land he was given as a reward

    I can believe the vast majority of people would have deep generational ties. What I doubt it most are aware of the details that could prove that, so it would just be a general feeling, and third generation person would appear as deeply connected as your 25th generation one.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,283

    HYUFD said:

    It's basically another complete waste of defence spend, like Trident but without the veneer of usefulness.

    Beyond the deterrent role, Trident is actually a fairly good guarantee nobody will ever try an amphibious invasion of the UK or Ireland from the west. Nice invasion fleet you have there Mr Trump, shame if we were to drop an ICBM on it...
    We would never use Trident that way.
    IIRC Trident has some interesting modes - depressed trajectory shot is one of them. *minimum* range is an interesting question.

    Since we’ve reduced the number of warheads on most of them, you can actually reach near orbit - so you can do hilarious stuff like fire in the opposite direction, go most of the way round, and hit a target 200 miles away. From behind, as it were.

    Raises the possibility of being hit by the missile you fired yourself, somewhat boomerang style.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,936
    edited February 26

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    It big
    Trump wants it renamed 'Trump Number'.
    Isn't that number one?

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,854

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donald Trump Jr.:

    I honestly can’t imagine that anyone in their right mind would be picking Ukraine as an ally when Russia is the other option, the US should have been sending weapons to Russia.

    https://x.com/clashreport/status/1894789558648127693

    How sick are these morons
    No scale has been invented that can properly measure that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham's_number
    Graham's number is an immense number that arose as an upper bound on the answer of a problem in the mathematical field of Ramsey theory. It is much larger than many other large numbers such as Skewes's number and Moser's number, both of which are in turn much larger than a googolplex. As with these, it is so large that the observable universe is far too small to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume, possibly the smallest measurable space


    ...so, it big?
    It big
    Trump wants it renamed 'Trump Number'.
    I'm personally worried for Judd Trump, the parish of Trumpington, the trumpet, and the firemen of Trumpton.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,407

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Quite.

    In fact, I suspect very few have "ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."

    Unless the story is "I was born in Watford".
    Yes and no. Both my parents families are Wiltshire a very long way back, and I live here still. I do feel some link to the place and it's past. Nebulous but real.
    On both sides of my family there has been a lot of moving about, often quite large distances, even continents, and in childhood I moved a lot. I went to seven different schools, 3 in the USA and 4 in England, then Univrrsity in London, so never developed that deep of attachment until I settled here in Leics, where I have been a third of a century. When people ask where I am from, I say Leicester. Leicester is the sort of place that is open to incomers.

    One of my oldest friends was born and lived all his life in a small Yorkshire town, apart from his time at University in London, he went straight back there after he qualified and still lives there. I am sometimes a bit jealous of those with such attachment to place. I could have settled anywhere there was an interesting job. Every city has its good and bad bits.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,157
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Suella calls herself British Asian in that article, apparently only descendants of Normans and Saxons and at a push Romano British and Vikings who settled here can be English is the basis of her argument
    It's just crazy, I have no idea how recently my ancestors came to this island as I know little about our heritage (there is a rumour one great grandparent had the last name schwartz changed to Black, but I have no confirmation), so how am I meant to know if my ancestry is suitably Norman/Saxon/Romano British/Viking?
    I have English, Welsh, Scots and Scots-Irish ancestors, albeit some from the British diaspora in the Antipodes. Can I be English by her definition? Or is my blood too diluted by those perfidious Celts?
    tbf in my experience it's not uncommon for people born in England to parents with Asian or African roots to consider themselves British and not English. I haven't read the article, but if she is also saying that others with a similar background can't be English she is wrong, but she is entitled to feel that way about herself.

    But if HYUFD's summary is correct and she talks about 'descendants of Romano British' then she is off her trolley.
    She says, "For Englishness to mean something substantial, it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity – not just residence or fluency. [...] I don’t feel English because I have no generational ties to English soil, no ancestral stories tied to the towns or villages of this land."
    Nor do a buttload of white english people (depending on how far we define 'generational'), not to the extent they can prove it without deeper family research. Are we sure how many will be left? A great many, to be sure, but a lot less than she probably thinks.
    Yes 'I don't feel English' is fine. But 'For Englishness to mean something it must be rooted in ancestry, heritage, and, yes, ethnicity' is a load of bollocks. At the end of the day everyone has mixed ancestry.

    And the things that are most identifiably English are either not dependent in those things at all - eg having an English accent, or being a fan of the England football team. Or in the case of 'heritage' aren't really 'English' historically - Stonehenge and the royal family.

    Here's a poll from 2021
    https://www.britishfuture.org/english-identity-open-football-unites/

    "Three quarters (77%) of white people in England agree that ‘Being English is open to people of different ethnic backgrounds who identify as English.’ Just 14% feel that ‘Only people who are white count as truly English.’ Two-thirds (68%) of ethnic minority citizens agree that being English is open to people of all backgrounds, while 19% feel that English identity is the preserve of white people."
This discussion has been closed.