We potentially are over four years away from the next election, a lot can happen between now & then

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  • MJW
    MJW Posts: 2,021
    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    @GeorgeWParker

    Kemi Badenoch this morning: "A country cannot be successful if its people and intellectual elite don’t believe in it. This means dealing with the poisoning of minds through higher education."

    What was wrong with what she said?
    What was wrong with what Badenoch said?

    Maybe minds different from hers aren't poisoned. Maybe higher education has a rather limited poisoning effect. What does she propose to do about it without infringing freedom of speech, which she professes to be in mortal peril? Maybe there's something more important she could concern herself.
    That's the point isn't it? It's either utterly trivial and meanningless - universities can be a bit snobbish and left-wing - they're sodding universities. In the 1930s they were teeming with actual paid up communists rather than people who cosplay as revolutionaries when the weather is nice.

    Criticise it fine, but it's about number 94 on the list of our problems.

    Or it's very sinister and she actually believes in delegitimising and excluding views she finds disagreeable while making an Orwellian claim to support free speech. Which is what we're now seeing in the US, but is rather un-British.
  • FF43
    FF43 Posts: 18,213
    .
    williamglenn said:

    bondegezou said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://x.com/jdvance/status/1891467842106630244

    Insulting someone is not a crime, and criminalizing speech is going to put real strain on European-US relationships.

    This is Orwellian, and everyone in Europe and the US must reject this lunacy.

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2025/02/16/julianne-moore-freckleface-strawberry-ban-department-of-defense/78893382007/
    When someone declines to consume your product, they are not banning you.
    Indeed. But when people are banning you, which is what is happening here, they are banning you.
  • MJW
    MJW Posts: 2,021
    SouthamObserver said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK firms mull biggest layoffs in a decade as business confidence slumps
    Impending tax rises from autumn budget fuel collapse in sentiment and rising redundancy intentions, surveys show
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/17/uk-firms-mull-biggest-layoffs-in-a-decade-as-business-confidence-slumps

    Message to Keir From HR: SACK RACHEL FROM ACCOUNTS
    The funny thing about the insult "Rachel from Accounts" is that it doesn't work on any level whether you think she's crap or not. Being "from accounts" would make her rather more qualified than many British chancellors. Meanwhile, 'Colin from Accounts' - the thing it's referencing - is a dog in an Australian sitcom.

    People using it just reveal they are stupid enough to repeat anything they see people saying on the internet.
    Why are you endlessly whining about it, then?
    The same reason you whinge about things you think are moronic? Because they are moronic.
    Yes but whining in this instance only encourages your opponents to continue doing it, as it clearly irks

    And I can see why it irks. It is clever and biting and hasty and tells an uncomfortable truth. She is a bit dim, a bit earnest; and way overpromoted
    It irks because people being idiots and making themselves repeatedly dumber does.

    It isn't any of those things? C'mon you're a a good writer - you know what clever and biting is, and it isn't repeating a phrase from a sitcom you haven't seen, and thus don't know what it actually refers to. It isn't saying what you want it to say in terms of her being dim and overpromoted because anyone with accountancy qualifications has more than plenty of Chancellors. In fact, it's probably an insult she could embrace if it ever gained serious traction beyond weirdos on TwiX.

    You can do better - get something genuinely clever and funny and one will admit it.

    But it's the latter-day 'ZaNu LieBore' or calling George Osborne 'Gideon'. It's about as clever as a kid who flings its own shit around because it saw a monkey do it on TV and yet takes grinning pride in it.

    Got to disagree. Rachel from Accounts is a pretty good insult. It's demeaning of her and her position. It strongly implies she is out of her depth. I don't like it but it's a winner.

    I just don't get it. Maybe because I know Colin from Accounts is a cute Yorkshire Terrier.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,289
    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,041
    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
  • OnlyLivingBoy
    OnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,660
    dixiedean said:

    If you love American free speech, then try saying fuck or getting your tits out on their network TV.

    Or try protesting against Israel's actions in Gaza...
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-proposed-army-of-europe-will-not-happen-says-polish-minister/

    Poland out, Germany out, USA out.

    A British brigade under the direction of the French it'll be then.
  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,289
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-proposed-army-of-europe-will-not-happen-says-polish-minister/

    Poland out, Germany out, USA out.

    A British brigade under the direction of the French it'll be then.
    Britain and France doing it alone would be an interesting development in European politics.
  • Andy_JS
    Andy_JS Posts: 36,292
    edited February 17
    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.
  • Leon
    Leon Posts: 63,041
    williamglenn said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    https://kyivindependent.com/zelenskys-proposed-army-of-europe-will-not-happen-says-polish-minister/

    Poland out, Germany out, USA out.

    A British brigade under the direction of the French it'll be then.
    Britain and France doing it alone would be an interesting development in European politics.
    Unlike every other potential fissure, this issue has genuine potential to demolish the EU as we know it
  • Malmesbury
    Malmesbury Posts: 55,723
    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    A large chunk of German politics wants back to East Politics as fast as possible.
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,169
    Andy_JS said:

    Looking forward to seeing polling on whether most voters support putting British troops on the ground in Ukraine.

    It's the yougov daily so shouldn't have to wait long.
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    Britain and France stand alone against tyranny. Same old, Same old.
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,347
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    He'd better get a shift on.
    Germany has an election in a few days time. The new chancellor might be slightly less feeble.
  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,089
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    @GeorgeWParker

    Kemi Badenoch this morning: "A country cannot be successful if its people and intellectual elite don’t believe in it. This means dealing with the poisoning of minds through higher education."

    Most of the right-wing intellectual elite believe in Britain so little they live outside of it (eg Douglas Murray in New York, Andrew Neil in France)
    Because they are affluent and the Left has turned Britain into a toilet at a 3rd rate zoo

    What are we meant to do, hang around pretending it’s lovely with fixed, rictus grins as we stare at the litter and the machetes?
    The left ?

    The right have been in power for the last 14 years, 5 of them with the centrist NIMBY LD's

    They own our decline.
    I class the Tories 2010-2024 as part of the Woke Left

    This is not some rhetorical trick to avoid a painful truth. This is what I think: they did nothing about the Blob, about Woke, about PC, and they INCREASED immigration to 1m a year in the Boriswave, a crime for which they must never be forgiven and which I hope destroys the Tories forever

    AFAIC we have been governed by the Left since the mid 1990s, and voila, here we are
    Narrator: This is some rhetorical trick to avoid a painful truth.
    Is there any measure of Thatcheresque right-wingery beyond the purely performative that you score recent Tory Governments highly on? Not dismissing the point, just interested.
  • Alphabet_Soup
    Alphabet_Soup Posts: 3,655
    Andy_JS said:

    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.

    And is true of every country in Europe.
  • Andy_JS
    Andy_JS Posts: 36,292
    edited February 17
    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    Well, we're getting a new German government in just a few days' time. Maybe it might have a different view.
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,169
    edited February 17
    Malmesbury said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    A large chunk of German politics wants back to East Politics as fast as possible.
    I think sending troops to Ukraine is pretty sensitive there, even compared to other international deployments, since 1944 anyway...
  • bondegezou
    bondegezou Posts: 15,133
    Andy_JS said:

    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.

    We've been sending our troops to defend other country's borders since 1943.
  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,089
    noneoftheabove said:

    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    @GeorgeWParker

    Kemi Badenoch this morning: "A country cannot be successful if its people and intellectual elite don’t believe in it. This means dealing with the poisoning of minds through higher education."

    What was wrong with what she said?
    What was wrong with what Badenoch said?

    Maybe minds different from hers aren't poisoned. Maybe higher education has a rather limited poisoning effect. What does she propose to do about it without infringing freedom of speech, which she professes to be in mortal peril? Maybe there's something more important she could concern herself.
    Even if she was completely correct in her observations, the impact of highlighting it will be to strengthen Reform and weaken the Conservatives.

    That is err, not supposed to be the job of the Leader of the Conservatives.....
    Err, I think being conservative is exactly the job of the Leader of the Conservatives. The fact that they stopped being conservative is why Reform exists.
  • Big_G_NorthWales
    Big_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,238
    Jonathan said:

    Britain and France stand alone against tyranny. Same old, Same old.

    Good afternoon

    I think you will find Poland and the Baltic Countries will stand against tyranny but as I said yesterday as part of NATO notwithstanding the present US attitudes

    An European Army was always a non starter
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,169
    MJW said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK firms mull biggest layoffs in a decade as business confidence slumps
    Impending tax rises from autumn budget fuel collapse in sentiment and rising redundancy intentions, surveys show
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/17/uk-firms-mull-biggest-layoffs-in-a-decade-as-business-confidence-slumps

    Message to Keir From HR: SACK RACHEL FROM ACCOUNTS
    The funny thing about the insult "Rachel from Accounts" is that it doesn't work on any level whether you think she's crap or not. Being "from accounts" would make her rather more qualified than many British chancellors. Meanwhile, 'Colin from Accounts' - the thing it's referencing - is a dog in an Australian sitcom.

    People using it just reveal they are stupid enough to repeat anything they see people saying on the internet.
    Why are you endlessly whining about it, then?
    The same reason you whinge about things you think are moronic? Because they are moronic.
    Yes but whining in this instance only encourages your opponents to continue doing it, as it clearly irks

    And I can see why it irks. It is clever and biting and hasty and tells an uncomfortable truth. She is a bit dim, a bit earnest; and way overpromoted
    It irks because people being idiots and making themselves repeatedly dumber does.

    It isn't any of those things? C'mon you're a a good writer - you know what clever and biting is, and it isn't repeating a phrase from a sitcom you haven't seen, and thus don't know what it actually refers to. It isn't saying what you want it to say in terms of her being dim and overpromoted because anyone with accountancy qualifications has more than plenty of Chancellors. In fact, it's probably an insult she could embrace if it ever gained serious traction beyond weirdos on TwiX.

    You can do better - get something genuinely clever and funny and one will admit it.

    But it's the latter-day 'ZaNu LieBore' or calling George Osborne 'Gideon'. It's about as clever as a kid who flings its own shit around because it saw a monkey do it on TV and yet takes grinning pride in it.

    Got to disagree. Rachel from Accounts is a pretty good insult. It's demeaning of her and her position. It strongly implies she is out of her depth. I don't like it but it's a winner.

    I just don't get it. Maybe because I know Colin from Accounts is a cute Yorkshire Terrier.
    A border terrier I think.
  • Alphabet_Soup
    Alphabet_Soup Posts: 3,655
    bondegezou said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.

    We've been sending our troops to defend other country's borders since 1943.
    It's the other half of the argument that's new.
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806

    NEW THREAD

  • williamglenn
    williamglenn Posts: 56,289
    bondegezou said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.

    We've been sending our troops to defend other country's borders since 1943.
    Interesting date. Why 1943?
  • Jonathan
    Jonathan Posts: 22,107
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Jonathan said:

    Britain and France stand alone against tyranny. Same old, Same old.

    Good afternoon

    I think you will find Poland and the Baltic Countries will stand against tyranny but as I said yesterday as part of NATO notwithstanding the present US attitudes

    An European Army was always a non starter
    NATO isn’t really a thing anymore. That’s the problem. Would you trust Trump to fulfil a treaty obligation?
  • Carnyx
    Carnyx Posts: 44,654
    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Nigel_Foremain said:

    Nigelb said:

    UK firms mull biggest layoffs in a decade as business confidence slumps
    Impending tax rises from autumn budget fuel collapse in sentiment and rising redundancy intentions, surveys show
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/17/uk-firms-mull-biggest-layoffs-in-a-decade-as-business-confidence-slumps

    Message to Keir From HR: SACK RACHEL FROM ACCOUNTS
    The funny thing about the insult "Rachel from Accounts" is that it doesn't work on any level whether you think she's crap or not. Being "from accounts" would make her rather more qualified than many British chancellors. Meanwhile, 'Colin from Accounts' - the thing it's referencing - is a dog in an Australian sitcom.

    People using it just reveal they are stupid enough to repeat anything they see people saying on the internet.
    Why are you endlessly whining about it, then?
    The same reason you whinge about things you think are moronic? Because they are moronic.
    Yes but whining in this instance only encourages your opponents to continue doing it, as it clearly irks

    And I can see why it irks. It is clever and biting and hasty and tells an uncomfortable truth. She is a bit dim, a bit earnest; and way overpromoted
    It irks because people being idiots and making themselves repeatedly dumber does.

    It isn't any of those things? C'mon you're a a good writer - you know what clever and biting is, and it isn't repeating a phrase from a sitcom you haven't seen, and thus don't know what it actually refers to. It isn't saying what you want it to say in terms of her being dim and overpromoted because anyone with accountancy qualifications has more than plenty of Chancellors. In fact, it's probably an insult she could embrace if it ever gained serious traction beyond weirdos on TwiX.

    You can do better - get something genuinely clever and funny and one will admit it.

    But it's the latter-day 'ZaNu LieBore' or calling George Osborne 'Gideon'. It's about as clever as a kid who flings its own shit around because it saw a monkey do it on TV and yet takes grinning pride in it.

    Got to disagree. Rachel from Accounts is a pretty good insult. It's demeaning of her and her position. It strongly implies she is out of her depth. I don't like it but it's a winner.

    I just don't get it. Maybe because I know Colin from Accounts is a cute Yorkshire Terrier.
    A border terrier I think.
    It is. (Apparently two were used, dunno why.)
  • Fairliered
    Fairliered Posts: 6,023
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    That might change after AfD are heavily defeated in the forthcoming German election.
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,302
    edited February 17
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    MJW said:

    MattW said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Second.

    I'm not so sure on Reform. To me their coalition looks fragile.

    How will they resolve their tensions:

    - Patriotism vs Trumpism when the USA turns its back on allies and the rest of the world.
    - Between Rich men based in Dubai or the US or wherever feathering their nests vs grass roots who want to be loyal British.
    - The enormous black holes in their Manifesto between declared intention to shrink the state and policies that require much more public investment.
    - The contribution their MPs actually make to doing their jobs vs their second jobs in media.
    - The tensions between various shades of Right in their internal coalition, and the supporters they need to attract from the mainstream.

    I don't see it holding together.
    If you think Reform's MPs aren't making a contribution outside of their media appearances, you're pretty ill-researched. Rupert Lowe alone has submitted 624 parliamentary questions according to an AI summary. I doubt it's far off. Frankly it's the Reform five making the other parties' MPs look lazy, not the other way around, much as you might wish otherwise.
    If you can point me to some data eg debate attendances, that would be great.
    Lowe does appear to be Reform's hardest working MP - in a bit of a tallest dwarf contest. I'm surprised though that anyone who saw Southampton's demise in the mid-2000s thinks he's fit to run a bath.
    Bearing in mind that I have a Reform MP, I am genuinely interested in this.

    At a recent debate on immigration, all 5 Reform MPs turned up to vote, but none of them spoke in the debate. Given that it is Specialist Subject 1, I'm interested in some data.
    It might be interesting to drill into Lowe's 624 questions, as pointed out by @Luckyguy1983 , to see if they are substantive or if there is an obsessive search for eye-poking material.

    624 questions costs about £159k to answer btw (~£255 each), based on index linking a quoted cost from some years ago.

    I'll check that 624.
    Is that 624 per mensem or per annum?

    This might interest you ... Tories (for all I know) trying to prove that Holyrood is a waste by, erm ...

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24937591.full-ranking-msps-ask-least-questions-holyrood/
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24921478.douglas-lumsden-submits-900-parliamentary-questions-costing-100k/

    'Tory MSP Douglas Lumsden submitting a staggering 987 written questions in January.

    Costing around £100 each to answer, it was suggested that the MSP for North East Scotland used AI for the endeavour, which he has denied.

    It included asking for the cost of electric hand dryers on the parliamentary estate, how many Scottish Parliament flags have gone missing over the last 10 years, and the average profit or loss on jars of honey sold in the Holyrood shop.'
    It seems to be 728 not 624, and that is since September 2nd 2024.

    There are 15 dated to 14/2/25. 8 are of the form per department:

    Rupert Lowe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, if she will publish the total cost to the public purse for the provision of diversity, equality and inclusion courses for staff in her Department in 2024.

    There were 6 more written questions dated 13/2/25. 5 were of the same form.

    And one more dated 12/2/25.

    Stuff about migrants, translation services' cost, overseas students, immigration enforcement, one on Muslims in the NHS, and also waiting time on telephone calls.

    Link:
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/search/?q=rupert+lowe+section:wrans+section:wms

    I'm not making a particular judgement (Lib Dems always did this). But I assume he is the fishing department :wink: .

    Chat GPT does not think that Farage or Tice or James McMurdock are MPs.
  • noneoftheabove
    noneoftheabove Posts: 24,857
    dixiedean said:

    If you love American free speech, then try saying fuck or getting your tits out on their network TV.

    Its just freaking weird.
  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,302
    edited February 17
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    It will be a coalition of the willing, so I don't see how they can "reject" it - other than say they won't participate.

    The German Election is next week, and it may change if Merz wins, or Scholz changes his position if he wins (which as we know he won't).

    Poland saying "we won't send troops in" may be more concerning.
  • PJH
    PJH Posts: 875
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    FF43 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    WTF?

    @GeorgeWParker

    Kemi Badenoch this morning: "A country cannot be successful if its people and intellectual elite don’t believe in it. This means dealing with the poisoning of minds through higher education."

    What was wrong with what she said?
    What was wrong with what Badenoch said?

    Maybe minds different from hers aren't poisoned. Maybe higher education has a rather limited poisoning effect. What does she propose to do about it without infringing freedom of speech, which she professes to be in mortal peril? Maybe there's something more important she could concern herself.
    Even if she was completely correct in her observations, the impact of highlighting it will be to strengthen Reform and weaken the Conservatives.

    That is err, not supposed to be the job of the Leader of the Conservatives.....
    Err, I think being conservative is exactly the job of the Leader of the Conservatives. The fact that they stopped being conservative is why Reform exists.
    Puzzled by this comment. Whatever reform are, they certainly aren't conservative. Nor are the Conservatives at the moment. If anything, it is the Labour government who are currently doing the closest impersonation of a conservative party.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,076
    williamglenn said:

    bondegezou said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Whether you agree with it or not, the slogan "Why should we send troops to defend another country's borders when we can't defend our own borders" is potentially a very resonant one.

    We've been sending our troops to defend other country's borders since 1943.
    Interesting date. Why 1943?
    Invasion of Italy?
  • Cicero
    Cicero Posts: 3,622
    Leon said:

    williamglenn said:

    "Germany to reject Starmer’s plan for troops in Ukraine as Europe splits over peace deal"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/02/17/germany-reject-starmer-plan-troops-ukraine-russia-war-trump/

    That's that, then

    Putin might as well walk into Estonia now, the Germans won't do fuck. No wonder they are crying in Munich
    Bollocks. We're fine. The nearest Russian tank is about 1000km away and most likely in flames. Five years time? The Nordic/Baltic has a bigger GDP than Russia. We're already preparing for any problem. So please pipe down, Chicken Licken. You don't know what you're talking about.
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