The Trump legacy, the UK chooses Europe over the open sea? – politicalbetting.com
Despite being potentially four and a half years away from the next election some people, particularly on social media, are calling the next election for Reform which seem a courageous call and may turn out to be as ridiculous as those who in early September 2022 thought Liz Truss would make for an excellent Prime Minister.
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First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.0 -
If the Trump revolution somehow succeeds Farage can bask in its reflective glory.
If the Trump revolution, as more likely, crashes the world economy, British voters will be poorer and looking to back the anti-establishment option.
Heads the billionaire puppets win, tails the voters lose.1 -
There's always been a switching between the old world and the new world. It's not a trend but a feature of our history.
I think it's called geography.0 -
The punters are obviously suffering from false consciousness, abetted by our notoriously Woke media.0
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Yet while a plurality say our relationship with Europe and the EU is more important than our relationship with the US still less than 50% do.
The reality remains we need strong relationships with both, they are our two biggest export destinations and while in the Trump era we will need closer European links on defence to defend our continent, the US is still the biggest counterweight to China and has the best anti terrorism network to combat jihadism0 -
Most Commonwealth nations do not have the King as head of state.Carnyx said:First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.
Though the largest remaining ones that do ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand also tend to be the foreign nations polls show most British voters feel closest to0 -
Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.3 -
https://www.wired.com/story/kash-patel-elite-depot-shein/
Trump's FBI pick, Kash Patel, won't divest himself of shares in Chinese company that represent a conflict of interest.0 -
Because they are majority white, speak English, and many folks have friends and relatives who have moved there. Nowt to do with the king.HYUFD said:
Most Commonwealth nations do not have the King as head of state.Carnyx said:First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.
Though the largest remaining ones that do ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand also tend to be the foreign nations polls show most British voters feel closest to1 -
Population of PNG double that of New ZealandHYUFD said:
Most Commonwealth nations do not have the King as head of state.Carnyx said:First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.
Though the largest remaining ones that do ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand also tend to be the foreign nations polls show most British voters feel closest to0 -
Sacking the archivist is so George Orwell's1984. History rewritten as required. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia2
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The Conservatives would be mad to attempt a pact with Reform, even if the latter were interested in such a thing. Farage, despite the fact that recent approval ratings flatter him when compared to a struggling Prime Minister and an invisible Opposition leader, is not particularly popular amongst the electorate as a whole; being the Not Farage Party is really the only attribute that the Tories have left to sell to their remaining voters.HYUFD said:
Yet not one poll, even FindOutNow, is forecasting a Reform majority even as most polls forecast a hung parliament. So the political reality for Farage is without a deal with the Tories he has near zero chance of becoming PM or getting into governmentkle4 said:
The only surprise would be that it took this long for more people to start saying it.rottenborough said:Hah, ha, ha...
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
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2h
SUNDAY EXPRESS: Tories call for Reform pact to save UK #TomorrowsPapersToday
You can see from the front page of Reform's website that they really do want to be friends.
The idea that Con+Ref = 50% and a deal is therefore all that is needed to win them an election handsomely is for the birds. I'm not sure how many Reform voters would desert if they thought their preferred party were morphing back into Tories, but a large chunk of what's left of the Conservative vote would sit on its hands or go Liberal Democrat.0 -
FPT.algarkirk said:WRT Gwynne, the Guardian online doesn't want to big up this story at the moment, various bits of trivia being ahead of it.
Gorton joins Runcorn as a seat neither Tories nor Labour will want a by-election in. Gorton and Denton is interesting. Labour gets 50%. C, LD, G and R all figure in the fight for the other half of the vote, with R just in second place on 14%.
Not particularly envisaging a by-election here, but with Reform just on their national average vote and 24.5% Green-Left vote, a single candidate from the latter could be the most credible challenge, if it could be brought about.
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More likely interned in Gitmo at the moment. With their education system bound to be an illegal alien or a spy.SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.0 -
Header: and may turn out to be as ridiculous as those who in early September 2022 thought Liz Truss would make for an excellent Prime Minister.
Liz Truss may have fallen short in the excellence department but she did make Prime Minister and that was what the bookies paid out on. Same with Big Nige.1 -
And the reason Australia voted to keep the monarchy in 1999 and rejected the voice for indigenous Australians in their parliament recently is not also linked to that?SandyRentool said:
Because they are majority white, speak English, and many folks have friends and relatives who have moved there. Nowt to do with the king.HYUFD said:
Most Commonwealth nations do not have the King as head of state.Carnyx said:First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.
Though the largest remaining ones that do ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand also tend to be the foreign nations polls show most British voters feel closest to
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Essentially, it’s all very complicated.
I think there is a prevailing acceptance that Brexit hasn’t delivered what people expected it to. Beyond that I think there’s a range of opinions - some want to rejoin the EU, some want to be closer to Europe in some areas but not others, some think we need to make Brexit work better. I am not sure that the public are coalescing around any one approach right now, and I think it will be some time before they do (if ever!). However, I do think that gives both Reform on one side and the LDs an opportunity to set out their stalls on this - people are in the mood for a change of approach. Those parties can offer that, on opposing ends of the spectrum.
Re Trump and Farage - I am not quite sure I see as big a correlation between what Trump does and Farage’s fortunes here. There are a lot of reasons for this, but essentially I think it boils down to the fact that Farage speaks to specific British concerns, which are often similar to those in America but not identical.
If Farage comes unstuck, it will be because the Labour Party in particular manages to skewer him on his rather Thatcherite-on-steroids economics and approach to things like the NHS.3 -
You're posing a different question now.HYUFD said:
And the reason Australia voted to keep the monarchy in 1999 and rejected the voice for indigenous Australians in their parliament recently is not also linked to that?SandyRentool said:
Because they are majority white, speak English, and many folks have friends and relatives who have moved there. Nowt to do with the king.HYUFD said:
Most Commonwealth nations do not have the King as head of state.Carnyx said:First! Unlike the Brexiters in popular esteem, it seems. Still less the e proponents of royal rule via the Commonwealth (for which read: Empire in some people's thinking).
Which genuinely surprises me.
Though the largest remaining ones that do ie Canada, Australia and New Zealand also tend to be the foreign nations polls show most British voters feel closest to0 -
I think we are seeing the real possibility of a Conservative Party total collapse, which are the conditions in which Farage has a good chance being PM.0
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Commander Dura (Rtd) is a parish councillor, isn't he?Eabhal said:0 -
For those who like a bit of espionage on their Sundays, this is a really good and not particularly long video about how Bellingcat unmasked one of Putin's assassins in Germany:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl9aaCDSOzs&t=506s
Interesting how sloppy the Russians were in creating his identity. The detail that they almost always keep the same Zodiac sign because this is asked for constantly in Russia was interesting.
Mysteriously, my youtube kept buffering while I tried to watch it.
On topic, I can't believe Russia wasn't given as an option in those polls. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to cooperate with a country of assassins and war criminals?
Typical biased pollsters.1 -
Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.1 -
FPT
The Sunday Rawnsley:
Voters indicating that they are backing Reform are telling us that they don’t like either Labour or the Tories. That is not the same as saying that they all want Nigel Farage to be the next prime minister.
“Reform is not great for Labour, but it is an existential threat to the Tories,” remarks one Labour strategist, noting that last week’s YouGov poll reported that one in five of Tory voters in 2024 said they would now back Reform. [But] one Labour veteran, usually a phlegmatic sort, recently remarked to me that both his party and the Conservatives “are living in the last chance saloon”.
Labour staffers and campaign groups are now spending a lot of time trying to devise strategies to combat Reform. The topic was on the agenda of the cabinet when it met for a six-hour “away day” at Lancaster House on Friday. One minister present told me afterwards that there was no single “killer” tactic that will do the trick. “I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet, if I’m being entirely honest.”
One school of thought within Sir Keir’s ranks argues that Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo and project the government as the insurgents. The snag with trying to be an “insurgent government” is that it is really hard not to look like the establishment when you are in power and the prime minister is a knighted lawyer who used to run the crown prosecution service.
A potentially promising approach is to subject [Farage's] beliefs and policies to the scrutiny that he is unaccustomed to. Labour has belatedly started to draw attention to his view that we should move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Sir Keir won a lusty cheer from his MPs at the most recent session of PMQs when he took on the leader of Reform by walloping him for wanting “to charge them (his constituents) for using the NHS”. [Farage's] signature theme is hostility to immigration and this raises the most vexed questions about the lengths to which Labour should go. A new pressure group of Labour MPs, drawn from those 89 seats that are potentially most vulnerable, is urging Sir Keir to toughen up the government’s stance on immigration and be noisy about it.
If Labour is to beat back Reform, the job won’t be done simply by coming up with some sharper attack lines. Mr Farage is thriving now, just as he did in the years running up to the Brexit referendum, because he is tapping into high levels of voter discontent about the quality of their lives in a country with a stagnant economy and dilapidated public services. Immigration is one of the factors, but so is the cost of living and the condition of the health service. Sorting that is critical to seeing him off. It is not enough to say that Reform has bad ideas. Labour must demonstrate that it can deliver good results.0 -
On topic, ask the question again in four years - when Trump has departed the stage - and the far right has triumphs in France and Germany...1
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It's more Trump's policies makes the UK poorer and less safe then being Trump's UK based proctologist might be sub-optimal for Farage/Reform.DougSeal said:Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.0 -
I'm not sure you're right here. If the Tory Party actually said "stick a fork in us, we're done" and wound themselves up, where would their remaining voters go? Surely by now, the only ones left must either be intensely tribal, or so disinterested in politics to have not noticed that the Tory Party has decended into a bad cartoon of itself.pigeon said:
The Conservatives would be mad to attempt a pact with Reform, even if the latter were interested in such a thing. Farage, despite the fact that recent approval ratings flatter him when compared to a struggling Prime Minister and an invisible Opposition leader, is not particularly popular amongst the electorate as a whole; being the Not Farage Party is really the only attribute that the Tories have left to sell to their remaining voters.HYUFD said:
Yet not one poll, even FindOutNow, is forecasting a Reform majority even as most polls forecast a hung parliament. So the political reality for Farage is without a deal with the Tories he has near zero chance of becoming PM or getting into governmentkle4 said:
The only surprise would be that it took this long for more people to start saying it.rottenborough said:Hah, ha, ha...
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
2h
SUNDAY EXPRESS: Tories call for Reform pact to save UK #TomorrowsPapersToday
You can see from the front page of Reform's website that they really do want to be friends.
The idea that Con+Ref = 50% and a deal is therefore all that is needed to win them an election handsomely is for the birds. I'm not sure how many Reform voters would desert if they thought their preferred party were morphing back into Tories, but a large chunk of what's left of the Conservative vote would sit on its hands or go Liberal Democrat.
I'm not sure I'd want to predict where those voters end up going.0 -
And Farage probably has enough sense not to want to be in government. He wants a platform to grandstand, enabling his media appearances and transatlantic hospitality, while other people do the hard work of actually governing, dancing to his tune.pigeon said:
The Conservatives would be mad to attempt a pact with Reform, even if the latter were interested in such a thing. Farage, despite the fact that recent approval ratings flatter him when compared to a struggling Prime Minister and an invisible Opposition leader, is not particularly popular amongst the electorate as a whole; being the Not Farage Party is really the only attribute that the Tories have left to sell to their remaining voters.HYUFD said:
Yet not one poll, even FindOutNow, is forecasting a Reform majority even as most polls forecast a hung parliament. So the political reality for Farage is without a deal with the Tories he has near zero chance of becoming PM or getting into governmentkle4 said:
The only surprise would be that it took this long for more people to start saying it.rottenborough said:Hah, ha, ha...
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
2h
SUNDAY EXPRESS: Tories call for Reform pact to save UK #TomorrowsPapersToday
You can see from the front page of Reform's website that they really do want to be friends.
The idea that Con+Ref = 50% and a deal is therefore all that is needed to win them an election handsomely is for the birds. I'm not sure how many Reform voters would desert if they thought their preferred party were morphing back into Tories, but a large chunk of what's left of the Conservative vote would sit on its hands or go Liberal Democrat.2 -
"Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo"IanB2 said:FPT
The Sunday Rawnsley:
Voters indicating that they are backing Reform are telling us that they don’t like either Labour or the Tories. That is not the same as saying that they all want Nigel Farage to be the next prime minister.
“Reform is not great for Labour, but it is an existential threat to the Tories,” remarks one Labour strategist, noting that last week’s YouGov poll reported that one in five of Tory voters in 2024 said they would now back Reform. [But] one Labour veteran, usually a phlegmatic sort, recently remarked to me that both his party and the Conservatives “are living in the last chance saloon”.
Labour staffers and campaign groups are now spending a lot of time trying to devise strategies to combat Reform. The topic was on the agenda of the cabinet when it met for a six-hour “away day” at Lancaster House on Friday. One minister present told me afterwards that there was no single “killer” tactic that will do the trick. “I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet, if I’m being entirely honest.”
One school of thought within Sir Keir’s ranks argues that Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo and project the government as the insurgents. The snag with trying to be an “insurgent government” is that it is really hard not to look like the establishment when you are in power and the prime minister is a knighted lawyer who used to run the crown prosecution service.
A potentially promising approach is to subject [Farage's] beliefs and policies to the scrutiny that he is unaccustomed to. Labour has belatedly started to draw attention to his view that we should move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Sir Keir won a lusty cheer from his MPs at the most recent session of PMQs when he took on the leader of Reform by walloping him for wanting “to charge them (his constituents) for using the NHS”. [Farage's] signature theme is hostility to immigration and this raises the most vexed questions about the lengths to which Labour should go. A new pressure group of Labour MPs, drawn from those 89 seats that are potentially most vulnerable, is urging Sir Keir to toughen up the government’s stance on immigration and be noisy about it.
If Labour is to beat back Reform, the job won’t be done simply by coming up with some sharper attack lines. Mr Farage is thriving now, just as he did in the years running up to the Brexit referendum, because he is tapping into high levels of voter discontent about the quality of their lives in a country with a stagnant economy and dilapidated public services. Immigration is one of the factors, but so is the cost of living and the condition of the health service. Sorting that is critical to seeing him off. It is not enough to say that Reform has bad ideas. Labour must demonstrate that it can deliver good results.
What could possibly go wrong?
Down down, deeper and down....1 -
Quite a lot will persuade themselves that, even if they don't particularly like the cut of Farage's jib, he's sound on the awfulness of Starmer and that's the main thing. We're already seeing that here.theProle said:
I'm not sure you're right here. If the Tory Party actually said "stick a fork in us, we're done" and wound themselves up, where would their remaining voters go? Surely by now, the only ones left must either be intensely tribal, or so disinterested in politics to have not noticed that the Tory Party has decended into a bad cartoon of itself.pigeon said:
The Conservatives would be mad to attempt a pact with Reform, even if the latter were interested in such a thing. Farage, despite the fact that recent approval ratings flatter him when compared to a struggling Prime Minister and an invisible Opposition leader, is not particularly popular amongst the electorate as a whole; being the Not Farage Party is really the only attribute that the Tories have left to sell to their remaining voters.HYUFD said:
Yet not one poll, even FindOutNow, is forecasting a Reform majority even as most polls forecast a hung parliament. So the political reality for Farage is without a deal with the Tories he has near zero chance of becoming PM or getting into governmentkle4 said:
The only surprise would be that it took this long for more people to start saying it.rottenborough said:Hah, ha, ha...
Neil Henderson
@hendopolis
·
2h
SUNDAY EXPRESS: Tories call for Reform pact to save UK #TomorrowsPapersToday
You can see from the front page of Reform's website that they really do want to be friends.
The idea that Con+Ref = 50% and a deal is therefore all that is needed to win them an election handsomely is for the birds. I'm not sure how many Reform voters would desert if they thought their preferred party were morphing back into Tories, but a large chunk of what's left of the Conservative vote would sit on its hands or go Liberal Democrat.
I'm not sure I'd want to predict where those voters end up going.
Besides, at some level, they still think they can control him.0 -
I suspect that Reform in Government would play out even worse for them than the LibDems in Coalition.IanB2 said:Farage probably has enough sense not to want to be in government. He wants a platform to grandstand, enabling his media appearances and transatlantic hospitality, while other people do the hard work of actually governing, dancing to his tune.
Reform are currently the "against everything" option.
Once in Government, you have to start being for some things.5 -
The Tories tried the “insurgent government” tactic and it didn’t work, frankly.IanB2 said:FPT
The Sunday Rawnsley:
Voters indicating that they are backing Reform are telling us that they don’t like either Labour or the Tories. That is not the same as saying that they all want Nigel Farage to be the next prime minister.
“Reform is not great for Labour, but it is an existential threat to the Tories,” remarks one Labour strategist, noting that last week’s YouGov poll reported that one in five of Tory voters in 2024 said they would now back Reform. [But] one Labour veteran, usually a phlegmatic sort, recently remarked to me that both his party and the Conservatives “are living in the last chance saloon”.
Labour staffers and campaign groups are now spending a lot of time trying to devise strategies to combat Reform. The topic was on the agenda of the cabinet when it met for a six-hour “away day” at Lancaster House on Friday. One minister present told me afterwards that there was no single “killer” tactic that will do the trick. “I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet, if I’m being entirely honest.”
One school of thought within Sir Keir’s ranks argues that Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo and project the government as the insurgents. The snag with trying to be an “insurgent government” is that it is really hard not to look like the establishment when you are in power and the prime minister is a knighted lawyer who used to run the crown prosecution service.
A potentially promising approach is to subject [Farage's] beliefs and policies to the scrutiny that he is unaccustomed to. Labour has belatedly started to draw attention to his view that we should move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Sir Keir won a lusty cheer from his MPs at the most recent session of PMQs when he took on the leader of Reform by walloping him for wanting “to charge them (his constituents) for using the NHS”. [Farage's] signature theme is hostility to immigration and this raises the most vexed questions about the lengths to which Labour should go. A new pressure group of Labour MPs, drawn from those 89 seats that are potentially most vulnerable, is urging Sir Keir to toughen up the government’s stance on immigration and be noisy about it.
If Labour is to beat back Reform, the job won’t be done simply by coming up with some sharper attack lines. Mr Farage is thriving now, just as he did in the years running up to the Brexit referendum, because he is tapping into high levels of voter discontent about the quality of their lives in a country with a stagnant economy and dilapidated public services. Immigration is one of the factors, but so is the cost of living and the condition of the health service. Sorting that is critical to seeing him off. It is not enough to say that Reform has bad ideas. Labour must demonstrate that it can deliver good results.
If Labour want to win the next GE then they are best sticking to a plan of trying to score wins on the economy and public services and making the case that things are getting better. We all have our views on whether or not they can achieve that, but that surely is the road to a second term, not trying to go toe-to-toe with Farage.
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+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
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That needs to be true for Farage to have a chance.DougSeal said:Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.0 -
Trump is good copy.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
He is a media creation. Same in many ways as Farage.
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I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?5 -
Indeed. Another point is some people being anti-establishment. Brexit is now an unloved, much ridiculed status quo that the big two parties accept as read. It won and is the establishment choice now and so if you think the country is in trouble, it's a part of it.DougSeal said:Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.
If you're just angry at everything and the state of the country there's a distinct possibility you'll view Brexit as having been a dreadful failure but still attracted to the populist who wants to smash things up and see where the pieces land.0 -
Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).0 -
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).0 -
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).1 -
I'm not sure that's true. It didn't work for Truss or Sunak, but it got Boris a huge majority.numbertwelve said:
The Tories tried the “insurgent government” tactic and it didn’t work, frankly.IanB2 said:FPT
The Sunday Rawnsley:
Voters indicating that they are backing Reform are telling us that they don’t like either Labour or the Tories. That is not the same as saying that they all want Nigel Farage to be the next prime minister.
“Reform is not great for Labour, but it is an existential threat to the Tories,” remarks one Labour strategist, noting that last week’s YouGov poll reported that one in five of Tory voters in 2024 said they would now back Reform. [But] one Labour veteran, usually a phlegmatic sort, recently remarked to me that both his party and the Conservatives “are living in the last chance saloon”.
Labour staffers and campaign groups are now spending a lot of time trying to devise strategies to combat Reform. The topic was on the agenda of the cabinet when it met for a six-hour “away day” at Lancaster House on Friday. One minister present told me afterwards that there was no single “killer” tactic that will do the trick. “I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet, if I’m being entirely honest.”
One school of thought within Sir Keir’s ranks argues that Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo and project the government as the insurgents. The snag with trying to be an “insurgent government” is that it is really hard not to look like the establishment when you are in power and the prime minister is a knighted lawyer who used to run the crown prosecution service.
A potentially promising approach is to subject [Farage's] beliefs and policies to the scrutiny that he is unaccustomed to. Labour has belatedly started to draw attention to his view that we should move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Sir Keir won a lusty cheer from his MPs at the most recent session of PMQs when he took on the leader of Reform by walloping him for wanting “to charge them (his constituents) for using the NHS”. [Farage's] signature theme is hostility to immigration and this raises the most vexed questions about the lengths to which Labour should go. A new pressure group of Labour MPs, drawn from those 89 seats that are potentially most vulnerable, is urging Sir Keir to toughen up the government’s stance on immigration and be noisy about it.
If Labour is to beat back Reform, the job won’t be done simply by coming up with some sharper attack lines. Mr Farage is thriving now, just as he did in the years running up to the Brexit referendum, because he is tapping into high levels of voter discontent about the quality of their lives in a country with a stagnant economy and dilapidated public services. Immigration is one of the factors, but so is the cost of living and the condition of the health service. Sorting that is critical to seeing him off. It is not enough to say that Reform has bad ideas. Labour must demonstrate that it can deliver good results.
It needs chutzpah to pull off, but it's possible. And I agree with Rawnsley that the charisma-free, left-liberal Establishment Starmer is about the last person who could pull it off.0 -
He and his team have clearly given thought as to the performative shock and awe stuff they always intended to drop in the weeks after his election win.kinabalu said:
I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
It's still not obvious whether they have a coherent legislative programme for the next two to four years?1 -
That's the two party / FPTP commoditisation of opinion. The RINO rhetoric is an example of the same thing.DougSeal said:Marina Hyde in the Guardian mentioned the left’s commoditisation of opinion. In other words, correct thinking liberals have to adopt, however contradictory, the whole package of “correct” views off the shelf but, in reality, a substantial part of society that fully support gay rights also support the death penalty - which are not found together in the left-liberal package.
I think that’s true more broadly. Disliking Trump and regretting Brexit may not, paradoxically, necessarily be a bar to supporting Farage.
A PR system is slightly more likely to avoid such nonsense. If you're not MAGA, or 'uber-liberal' (whatever that might mean), you have other options to make your electoral voice heard.1 -
You mean today's elections in Kosovo?SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.2 -
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.1 -
kinabalu said:
I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
He often isn't.numbertwelve said:
Trump is good copy.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
He is a media creation. Same in many ways as Farage.
It's just lazy journalism.2 -
Yeah. I see "he/him" and the like and I just think "Okay, so they're the sort of person who does that."Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
It's a bit like military personnel who insist on using their ranks after they've left the military. It annoys me, and I find it slightly bemusing, but it's harmless. It's more my issue than theirs.1 -
I see they've now torn up the 'support for EV;s' programme (or possibly program!).IanB2 said:
He and his team have clearly given thought as to the performative shock and awe stuff they always intended to drop in the weeks after his election win.kinabalu said:
I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
It's still not obvious whether they have a coherent legislative programme for the next two to four years?
How's that going down with Musk?0 -
This weeks Polls show SKS enabled Reform at unprecedented GE VI levels
Pinocchio fans please explain
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election0 -
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).0 -
How long before Boris Johnson returns?0
-
Just ask them?DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).1 -
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Mind you, Civ does get some things wrong. Having Victoria as Queen of England (nope, Britain), or Saladin as an Arabic leader (he was a Kurd) springs to mind.1 -
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/02/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-trump-column-read.htmlIanB2 said:
He and his team have clearly given thought as to the performative shock and awe stuff they always intended to drop in the weeks after his election win.kinabalu said:
I've started to fast forward Trump coverage. It's bloated and pandering. Anything important, I'll read a summary later on.Daveyboy1961 said:
+1SandyRentool said:Somebody stubs their toe in the US and we get rolling news coverage. Meanwhile major events across Europe are shoehorned in between a story about cats and the weather forecast.
Presumably if the Americans spoke French or German they'd be ignored too.
Sky News were all over Trump's press conference with pm of Japan. They called it breaking news FFS. What on earth had that to do with us?
It's still not obvious whether they have a coherent legislative programme for the next two to four years?
Ezra Klein:
Trump is acting like a king because he is too weak to govern like a president. He is trying to substitute perception for reality. He is hoping that perception then becomes reality. That can only happen if we believe him.
The flurry of activity is meant to suggest the existence of a plan. The Trump team wants it known that they’re ready this time. They will control events rather than be controlled by them. The closer you look, the less true that seems. They are scrambling and flailing already.2 -
Just use the name of the person. SimplesDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).0 -
Their "coherent legislative program" is cut everything they don't like, or don't understand...IanB2 said:It's still not obvious whether they have a coherent legislative programme for the next two to four years?
@ianbetteridge.com
Another thing about regulation: everyone – even me – is in favour of simplifying things. Then you get to the details and have to ask "well, should we get rid of this one about fire testing cladding?" And all of a sudden, you have the same number of regulations, because they're all there for a reason
1 -
I am not a Christian but I do find it mildly irritating. Like you, however, it barely registers.OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.0 -
But it did work for the Conservatives. May ran against the Cameron government. Boris ran against Cameron and May.numbertwelve said:
The Tories tried the “insurgent government” tactic and it didn’t work, frankly.IanB2 said:FPT
The Sunday Rawnsley:
Voters indicating that they are backing Reform are telling us that they don’t like either Labour or the Tories. That is not the same as saying that they all want Nigel Farage to be the next prime minister.
“Reform is not great for Labour, but it is an existential threat to the Tories,” remarks one Labour strategist, noting that last week’s YouGov poll reported that one in five of Tory voters in 2024 said they would now back Reform. [But] one Labour veteran, usually a phlegmatic sort, recently remarked to me that both his party and the Conservatives “are living in the last chance saloon”.
Labour staffers and campaign groups are now spending a lot of time trying to devise strategies to combat Reform. The topic was on the agenda of the cabinet when it met for a six-hour “away day” at Lancaster House on Friday. One minister present told me afterwards that there was no single “killer” tactic that will do the trick. “I don’t think we’ve figured this out yet, if I’m being entirely honest.”
One school of thought within Sir Keir’s ranks argues that Labour should present itself as the more authentic enemy of the status quo and project the government as the insurgents. The snag with trying to be an “insurgent government” is that it is really hard not to look like the establishment when you are in power and the prime minister is a knighted lawyer who used to run the crown prosecution service.
A potentially promising approach is to subject [Farage's] beliefs and policies to the scrutiny that he is unaccustomed to. Labour has belatedly started to draw attention to his view that we should move to an insurance-based system of healthcare. Sir Keir won a lusty cheer from his MPs at the most recent session of PMQs when he took on the leader of Reform by walloping him for wanting “to charge them (his constituents) for using the NHS”. [Farage's] signature theme is hostility to immigration and this raises the most vexed questions about the lengths to which Labour should go. A new pressure group of Labour MPs, drawn from those 89 seats that are potentially most vulnerable, is urging Sir Keir to toughen up the government’s stance on immigration and be noisy about it.
If Labour is to beat back Reform, the job won’t be done simply by coming up with some sharper attack lines. Mr Farage is thriving now, just as he did in the years running up to the Brexit referendum, because he is tapping into high levels of voter discontent about the quality of their lives in a country with a stagnant economy and dilapidated public services. Immigration is one of the factors, but so is the cost of living and the condition of the health service. Sorting that is critical to seeing him off. It is not enough to say that Reform has bad ideas. Labour must demonstrate that it can deliver good results.
If Labour want to win the next GE then they are best sticking to a plan of trying to score wins on the economy and public services and making the case that things are getting better. We all have our views on whether or not they can achieve that, but that surely is the road to a second term, not trying to go toe-to-toe with Farage.
But Rawnsley is right. Farage and Reform are NOTA and if Britain remains as it is, they will win. Labour needs to fix the country, to create jobs paying good money; affordable housing; less crime, especially kids stabbing each other and nicking phones. People should be able to see their doctor, and even registration with a dentist would be a start in some parts of the country. Even the weather's rubbish: too cold; too wet; too windy; and come summer, too hot and humid.
If not, then Tories broke the country, Labour made it worse, so why not try this new lot? What is there to lose?0 -
You/yous of courseDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
0 -
It used to annoy me as well. But as I've got older, and started looking at history outside Europe (and outside Christianity...) the idea that dates are referenced from an inaccurate birthdate of some random dude is a bit odd. If you're talking about Chinese history, as an example, then what does Christ have to do with it?Morris_Dancer said:
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
(Snip)
Besides, we should all be using Julian dates...
0 -
Remember when the government announced a return to Imperial measures every few months to keep its Brexity base occupied?OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.1 -
As AI starts to take over data preservation (which is pretty well inevitable), rewriting will become much easier for whoever holds power.squareroot2 said:Sacking the archivist is so George Orwell's1984. History rewritten as required. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia
And of course Orwell more or less predicted that too.
...Julia was twenty-six years old... and she worked, as he had guessed, on the novel-writing machines in the Fiction Department...0 -
Harsh...DavidL said:
I am not a Christian but I do find it mildly irritating. Like you, however, it barely registers.OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
2 -
The AI models are not intelligent at all. Try getting one to create a simple crossword or even a sujiko puzzle0
-
No, its not. I will be asking my usual penetrating questions in chief in due course:squareroot2 said:
Just use the name of the person. SimplesDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
"what did you do then"
"what did you see?"
"Did you say anything at that point"
etc etc
I can't use their own name.
"You" is a fantastically ubiquitous word in English. Its single, its plural, its masculine, its feminine, but is it "other"? I don't know an alternative but is there one and should I be using it?
1 -
Now you know that is not what I meant.Daveyboy1961 said:
Harsh...DavidL said:
I am not a Christian but I do find it mildly irritating. Like you, however, it barely registers.OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.1 -
9 Polls in last 9 days Averages
LAB 24.67%
CON 22.44%
REF 25.22%
More than 72% voting for extreme right wing policies0 -
How about "Ye"? Ye is a second-person plural pronoun.DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Come all ye faithful.0 -
JokeDavidL said:
Now you know that is not what I meant.Daveyboy1961 said:
Harsh...DavidL said:
I am not a Christian but I do find it mildly irritating. Like you, however, it barely registers.OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
0 -
Tell them to F off David and that you will not use illiterate speech for no-one. Proper grammar and b*gger the wokeDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).0 -
Civ should also have Victoria as the choice for a female leader when you play the Indians as she was Empress of India.Morris_Dancer said:
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Mind you, Civ does get some things wrong. Having Victoria as Queen of England (nope, Britain), or Saladin as an Arabic leader (he was a Kurd) springs to mind.2 -
I don’t speak Latin but they could have kept AD to mean something like “Years of This Day”.0
-
huh? why not use 'you'? Presumably this person also refers to themselves as 'I' without problems?DavidL said:
No, its not. I will be asking my usual penetrating questions in chief in due course:squareroot2 said:
Just use the name of the person. SimplesDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
"what did you do then"
"what did you see?"
"Did you say anything at that point"
etc etc
I can't use their own name.
"You" is a fantastically ubiquitous word in English. Its single, its plural, its masculine, its feminine, but is it "other"? I don't know an alternative but is there one and should I be using it?0 -
Creative intelligence isn't the point.geoffw said:The AI models are not intelligent at all. Try getting one to create a simple crossword or even a sujiko puzzle
But they can do the work of millions, if directed.
Most people can't compose a crossword. You could probably train an AI to do so without massive effort.
Musk probably has an AI writing his social media posts. Some selection of the output would be required, but it would explain his 300 tweets per day.
Doing that for Trump would be even easier, given his tiny vocabulary and copious public archive of bullshit.
1 -
Good morning, everyone.
On the header: encouraging to see an outbreak of sanity and an accurate reflection of where the USA is going.0 -
Not the same. Decimal money was an actual change from proper money.OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.
But BC/AD to BCE/CE changes only the label, not the date. Dates stay exactly as they were. That is why complaining about it is stupid. The Battle of Hastings was in 1066 CE or AD. We have not taken Christ out of the calendar, just off the badge. A change would have been adopting the Hebrew calendar, where this is year 5785 or the Islamic calendar (1446). That did not happen and no-one advocates it because the PTB made the smallest possible compromise on the name.0 -
He/she/they are third party singular.DavidL said:
No, its not. I will be asking my usual penetrating questions in chief in due course:squareroot2 said:
Just use the name of the person. SimplesDavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
"what did you do then"
"what did you see?"
"Did you say anything at that point"
etc etc
I can't use their own name.
"You" is a fantastically ubiquitous word in English. Its single, its plural, its masculine, its feminine, but is it "other"? I don't know an alternative but is there one and should I be using it?
You is second party.
You applies to everyone and has no gender or identity connotations.0 -
Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z
0 -
In the world of the documents I transcribe they are sometimes barely comfortable with the move from marks and nobles TO £ s and dGardenwalker said:
Remember when the government announced a return to Imperial measures every few months to keep its Brexity base occupied?OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.0 -
Gregorian surely ...JosiasJessop said:
It used to annoy me as well. But as I've got older, and started looking at history outside Europe (and outside Christianity...) the idea that dates are referenced from an inaccurate birthdate of some random dude is a bit odd. If you're talking about Chinese history, as an example, then what does Christ have to do with it?Morris_Dancer said:
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
(Snip)
Besides, we should all be using Julian dates...0 -
Yes, or by name.DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Or you could go Derbyshire / Yorkshire, and say "thou" .
That latter works better if they are called Ada or Eli.0 -
Re Andrew Gwynne MPMattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to an activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
His comments are nothing compared to those of the SoS for Health0 -
..some people, particularly on social media, are calling the next election for Reform which seem a courageous call and may turn out to be as ridiculous as those who in early September 2022 thought Liz Truss would make for an excellent Prime Minister...
Those two sets of people probably overlap considerably. You might be able to think of an odd example on PB.1 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_dayCarnyx said:
Gregorian surely ...JosiasJessop said:
It used to annoy me as well. But as I've got older, and started looking at history outside Europe (and outside Christianity...) the idea that dates are referenced from an inaccurate birthdate of some random dude is a bit odd. If you're talking about Chinese history, as an example, then what does Christ have to do with it?Morris_Dancer said:
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
(Snip)
Besides, we should all be using Julian dates...
(I once specced out a calendar system designed to keep track of days/time over a very long period. It soon becomes immensely complex, especially if you have to account for different locales and you want granularity to include stuff like leap seconds. The core of it use Julian Dates.)1 -
'You' is fine.Barnesian said:
How about "Ye"? Ye is a second-person plural pronoun.DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Come all ye faithful.
If David is feeling informal, he could try "y'all".0 -
Entirely uninterested in and unperturbed by the pronouns thing, but isn't it just shorthand for avoidance of gender specific forms of address? Is it even possible to address someone in the second person with gender defined without adding titles?DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
If the trial is in Glasgow of course 'youse' must be used at all times, eg 'Where were youse on the night of the 25th' etc.3 -
You work as a notary for the Conservatives?A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
In the world of the documents I transcribe they are sometimes barely comfortable with the move from marks and nobles TO £ s and dGardenwalker said:
Remember when the government announced a return to Imperial measures every few months to keep its Brexity base occupied?OldKingCole said:
It's just another change in the world that, with advancing age, one has to accept and live with.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Like pounds/pence instead of £sd.0 -
I vaguely recall some years ago Yorkshire teachers were complaining that new colleagues from down south thought thee-ing and thou-ing was charming because they did not realise the kids were ripping the piss out of them by addressing teachers using diminutives.MattW said:
Yes, or by name.DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
Or you could go Derbyshire / Yorkshire, and say "thou" .
That latter works better if they are called Ada or Eli.0 -
Quite impressive that he's managed to piss off such a wide range of constituents. The kind of person who needs to have a chat with the emergency service staff who clean up the mess after such collisions.MattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”0 -
Obvs if the pannel is a Dr or Professor DavidL has it sewn up.Theuniondivvie said:
Entirely uninterested and unperturbed by the pronouns thing, but isn't it just shorthand for avoidance of gender specific forms of address? Is it even possible to address someone in the first person with gender defined without adding titles?DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
If the trial in Glasgow of course 'youse' must be used at all times, eg 'Where were youse on the night of the 25th' etc.0 -
Is that it? It’s simple black humour.MattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z0 -
'Matt sucks dogs' was another one apparently.Gardenwalker said:
Is that it? It’s simple black humour.MattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z
Not sure who Matt is or the breed of dogs involved.0 -
Dangerous question in Glasgow when we are not supposed to lead evidence of crimes not on the indictment.Theuniondivvie said:
Entirely uninterested in and unperturbed by the pronouns thing, but isn't it just shorthand for avoidance of gender specific forms of address? Is it even possible to address someone in the second person with gender defined without adding titles?DavidL said:
Can anyone help with this? One of my witnesses in a forthcoming case wishes to be known as they/them. When I am talking to a third party, like another witness, I can refer to them as they. What do I do when I am speaking to them? Presumably they are still a "you"?Barnesian said:
A bit like "he/him"?JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
If the trial in Glasgow of course 'youse' must be used at all times, eg 'Where were youse on the night of the 25th' etc.0 -
Peurile, but so what.Theuniondivvie said:
'Matt sucks dogs' was another one apparently.Gardenwalker said:
Is that it? It’s simple black humour.MattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z
Not sure who Matt is or the breed of dogs involved.
I’ve surely said worse myself, maybe even on Pb.
0 -
Julian works is why.JosiasJessop said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_dayCarnyx said:
Gregorian surely ...JosiasJessop said:
It used to annoy me as well. But as I've got older, and started looking at history outside Europe (and outside Christianity...) the idea that dates are referenced from an inaccurate birthdate of some random dude is a bit odd. If you're talking about Chinese history, as an example, then what does Christ have to do with it?Morris_Dancer said:
I wouldn't say riled (not least because I'm too sleepy for that). But it's daft removing Christ from the Christian calendar. Bastardising history/the calendar for political reasons is not something I like.JosiasJessop said:
BCE/CE is something that used to really annoy me. Now, as I've got older, it's just a bit meh. Not something important enough to get riled up about IMO.Morris_Dancer said:Not the biggest thing in the world, but Civ VII apparently shifting to BCE/CE is bullshit.
Cunningly, I was planning to avoid getting it anyway. Time/money etc (if I had more, I'd be getting Kingdom Come Deliverance 2).
(Snip)
Besides, we should all be using Julian dates...
(I once specced out a calendar system designed to keep track of days/time over a very long period. It soon becomes immensely complex, especially if you have to account for different locales and you want granularity to include stuff like leap seconds. The core of it use Julian Dates.)
The only alternative to Julian calendar that I'd appreciate is the Babylonian administrative calendar of 360 days a year, with 30 days in every month.
360 is such a great number as it has almost every low number as a factor of it (why we use it for degrees in a circle).
Sure it means we'd eventually have summer in December and winter in June, but it would also work in a different way.1 -
Attempts at 'humour' can be very dangerous in politics. A Tory minister once made a dark 'joke' about the cockle pickers who died in Morecombe Bay. It was during a private dinner party, and it still lot her her job.Gardenwalker said:
Is that it? It’s simple black humour.MattW said:Re: Andrew Gwynne MP:
A bad 'un. A further comment he made wrt to someone who asked for more cycle lanes. This came via a report to a (very effective) activist group in the area called Walk Ride GM:
“Another outrageous exchange came after a councillor mentions a constituent called 'Nick' who asked for more cycle lanes and comments: 'That Nick is something else.'
Mr Gwynne, who represents the Gorton and Denton constituency, replies: 'I had positive visions of him getting mown down by an Elsa Waste HGV while he's cycling to the Fallowfield Loop [cycle lane]. We couldn't be that lucky!'”
https://bsky.app/profile/walkridegm.org.uk/post/3lhqckonbcc2z0 -
Surely that's Trump listening to the voices in his head, where he believes - or maybe affects - that he has not committed any crimes, and should not be subject to due process where Grand Juries of his peers have found there are charges to answer.squareroot2 said:Sacking the archivist is so George Orwell's1984. History rewritten as required. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia
Whilst he was on trial he spent his time personally attacking neutral officials such as Court Clerks, to the extent that swathes of them had to have 24/7 security and were threatened by Trump's supporters (and "swatted" - fake calls which get armed police sent to your home).
Now he is going after all the neutral officials who even touched on the prosecution process. It's an ideologcal cleansing of the system as we see in eg former European dictatorships or 3rd world countries run by despots.
As in eg Uganda under Amin, the independent judiciary, and independent institutions such as churches, will be the last bulwarks of a free society that can continue to exist.1 -
Good morning
On the Andrew Gwynne story and his outrageous and unacceptable comments, who else was privy to them and who leaked the story to the Daily Mail ?0
