politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB’s cartoonist, Marf, on the news from Paris
Marf's reaction to the terrible news from Paris pic.twitter.com/74V9Eko9Xm
Comments
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"We are all cartoonists now!"
Nice one, Marf!0 -
FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.0 -
The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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Bravo, Marf!0
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Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
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Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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exlab @exlabourite
Andy Burnham was Secretary of State for a year. Signed 221 PFI deals. Almost 1 every working day. Trust #Labour with NHS? Don't be silly0 -
Stay strong for freedom of expression.
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Although the best way to stop further ethnic ghettoisation in this country is to stop mass immigration so we have time for integration, and to limit immigration to the religiously moderate who don't want to associate with others.
Right now, French Islamists can come in freely at will. David Cameron won't do anything to change that.0 -
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.0 -
No more faith schools. Of any kind. Christian, Hindu or whatever. We can, as children, be little s*ds to those our relatives tell us not to like, but ultimately if the guy sitting nest to you is helpful or the girl in the next row is pretty, these thoughts go out of the window!0
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Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.0 -
An oddly appropriate and fitting response to today's events in Paris by a fellow cartoonist.
well done Marf.0 -
Well done, Marf, and well done Mike for publishing it.0
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Let's hope the anti-Islamist protests in Germany take-off and spread to other countries. Maybe then the politicians would take notice.0
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Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
Huzzah, TSE! Very nicely put!TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.0 -
Sick f*cks either way......Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
FPT (slightly edited)..
Given the professionalism in planning and executing the attack, and then escaping, the French security agencies - particularly DCRI - have some serious questions to answer.
They seem to be more interested in censoring what Wikipedia publish: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direction_générale_de_la_sécurité_intérieure0 -
A facile insult to the dead. Do you want a list of all the inconsequential people they murdered?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.
I responding in full on the previous thread. I agree with you. Well said.
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Seconded.Peter_the_Punter said:Well done, Marf, and well done Mike for publishing it.
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Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
No, I think TSE is right about mullets.
No punishment can be too severe.0 -
It's worth considering that Muhammed approved of killing people that insulted him:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6wO2gAIMAACZOB.jpg0 -
No, just politicians and publishers......Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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Mike Hogan @MikeHogan4FM 2 mins2 minutes ago
Dr Ali from the Irish Islamic Culture Centre just said he would seek legal advice if any journalist tweets one of #CharlieHebdo cartoons.0 -
The ending of segregated schooling, in my view, is pretty much the silver bullet for solving integration issues,OldKingCole said:No more faith schools. Of any kind. Christian, Hindu or whatever.
Teaching children every day that they are different from others (which is what segregated schooling implicitly does even if it doesn't do so explicitly) will lead to them growing up as adults who think they are different.0 -
Full freedom of expression is illegal in the UK and you can be arrested for inciting hatred if you say whay you really think. That first commenter over at Guido's was no doubt voicing the thoughts of millions - he was probably also breaking the law. Maybe we should after today change the law and let people opine freely. It'd be a start.volcanopete said:Stay strong for freedom of expression.
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Lucky I don't have a mullet, thenPeter_the_Punter said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
No, I think TSE is right about mullets.
No punishment can be too severe.
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It is and we can understand why marf takes particular affront. But were the people on that double decker on 7/7 cartoonists? Should we have said then, we are 'all bus drivers now' or 'all bus passengers' or 'all tube passengers' ?Sunil_Prasannan said:"We are all cartoonists now!"
Nice one, Marf!
We are all people and as such we are targets to be used by people who want to ferment a war. The attacks are as much on the observers' minds as the victims' bodies.0 -
I am well aware of the Sutton Database, thanks...Flightpath said:
A facile insult to the dead. Do you want a list of all the inconsequential people they murdered?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
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Yea, nicely said TSE, but it usually takes an abomination of this kind before most muslims will even lift their bums to criticise their fellow religionists that daily threaten our western way of life.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Huzzah, TSE! Very nicely put!TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.
0 -
Jeremy Hunt's A&E crisis simulator
http://games.usvsth3m.com/jeremy-hunts-realistic-a-and-e-crisis-simulator/0 -
One suspects the reason so many Musims were let into France in the first place was not because they were valued as ordinary citizens but rather as voting fodder for people with particular ideological beliefs. If that's anywhere near the truth, it's no wonder there are so many problems now.0
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Richard Nabavi on last thread: " Islamist terrorism in France has been a significant problem for many years, largely related to their historic links with North Africa and especially Algeria. In the 80s and early 90s France faced some very nasty attacks indeed (bombs on the Paris metro, for example), and the French authorities were, quite rightly, angry that the UK was not taking the problem seriously - at that time, terrorist-linked groups, whom the French suspected of being behind or at least sympathetic to the attacks, were operating quite openly in London. (The UK intelligence services were slow to respond, perhaps because they were focused on the IRA threat.)"
The anger in France was real. In the 90's I read an issue of the Le Nouvel Observateur which decried the UK's failure to crack down on "Londonistan", the network of Islamist hardliners, and their organisational (including links to Taliban and AQ) and propaganda activities (which were they were starting to disseminate via the web).
Some of the young Muslims I knew were getting quite caught up in that milieu - they were upset that post-Cold War, American financial/military/political "hyperpower" was going unchecked and was spreading a dangerous variety of consumerist cultural decadence around the world. They saw in Afghanistan the possibility of a new kind of state, one run under authentic Islamic lines. Iran didn't count - heretics - nor did the litany of "Islamic republics" such as Pakistan, where primary control rested with secular leaders for whom religion was essentially a political tool not their overarching purpose. There was now the prospect of a new kind of purity, one free from imperialist contamination, and which might transcend petty divisions of the Ummah by nationality or language.
One the flip side, they felt that the Ummah was being heavily oppressed by the West (not just Palestine, but things like the sanctions on Iraq which they felt were responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people) as well as Russia and her Slavic nationalist allies (in Chechnya, Bosnia and Kosovo). The prospect of a "back to the roots" Revolution was exciting, the oppression of their brothers and sisters was a compelling urgency. A lot of them started getting involved in aid trips to countries which they felt had been under the cosh. The ones I knew grew out of their idealism very quickly after 9/11, because it made the actions of some of their erstwhile heroes impossible to justify.0 -
Mullets are ok if you're dressing up for an 80s party.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
For every day wear, it is wrong, wrong, wrong.0 -
Hasn't Guido already done so?Socrates said:Mike Hogan @MikeHogan4FM 2 mins2 minutes ago
Dr Ali from the Irish Islamic Culture Centre just said he would seek legal advice if any journalist tweets one of #CharlieHebdo cartoons.0 -
That was because Protestants are the descendants of British settlers while the Catholics are the indigenous Irish. This isn't difficult.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
People are so desperate to excuse Islam that they have to make the most distorted parallels.0 -
He has every right to seek it.... Just hope he is laughed out of the office.Socrates said:Mike Hogan @MikeHogan4FM 2 mins2 minutes ago
Dr Ali from the Irish Islamic Culture Centre just said he would seek legal advice if any journalist tweets one of #CharlieHebdo cartoons.0 -
And in response to the Loyalist UVF killings of the Catholic Reavey and O'Dowd families the day before.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre0 -
There were some Muslims who left Algeria for France over 50 years ago, who didn't relish the opportunities of life in the newly independent state.
http://www.france24.com/en/focus/20150102-video-unresolved-issue-algerian-muslims-who-fought-france/0 -
What a hero:
Charb, one of the caricaturists killed today, said earlier, after receiving death threats from islamists: "I am not afraid of retaliation. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credit. It perhaps sounds a bit pompous, but I prefer to die standing than living on my knees."0 -
Nobody could possibly have imagined it of a man of your education and distinction, Sunil.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Lucky I don't have a mullet, thenPeter_the_Punter said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
No, I think TSE is right about mullets.
No punishment can be too severe.0 -
Then you'll find the name of one of my University friends - Philip Geddes, Journalist, on it - we don't know whether he ignored advice to stay inside Harrods and was in search of a story, or was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - and we never will.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I am well aware of the Sutton Database, thanks...Flightpath said:
A facile insult to the dead. Do you want a list of all the inconsequential people they murdered?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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Sorry to hear of your loss, Carlotta.CarlottaVance said:
Then you'll find the name of one of my University friends - Philip Geddes, Journalist, on it - we don't know whether he ignored advice to stay inside Harrods and was in search of a story, or was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - and we never will.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I am well aware of the Sutton Database, thanks...Flightpath said:
A facile insult to the dead. Do you want a list of all the inconsequential people they murdered?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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2 threads ago on PB it was all about UKIP going down.
Events
Marine Le Pen to be next French President are at 4/1 with Paddy, it's a steal.
"The End of History", ha.0 -
Only after the legal team have relieved him of every cent he owns.RobD said:
He has every right to seek it.... Just hope he is laughed out of the office.Socrates said:Mike Hogan @MikeHogan4FM 2 mins2 minutes ago
Dr Ali from the Irish Islamic Culture Centre just said he would seek legal advice if any journalist tweets one of #CharlieHebdo cartoons.0 -
And relgion had nothing to do with it?Sunil_Prasannan said:
And in response to the Loyalist UVF killings of the Catholic Reavey and O'Dowd families the day before.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre
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We are East London Intellectuals after all!Peter_the_Punter said:
Nobody could possibly have imagined it of a man of your education and distinction, Sunil.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Lucky I don't have a mullet, thenPeter_the_Punter said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
No, I think TSE is right about mullets.
No punishment can be too severe.0 -
How would I end the segregation? That is more difficult.Casino_Royale said:TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.
I responding in full on the previous thread. I agree with you. Well said.
What makes this attack so tragic is that in this country, when we've had to deal with extremists we've done it through the medium of satire.
How did we mock Oswald Mosley and the blackshirts, took the piss out of them, and P.G. Wodehouse satirised them via Roderick Spode and gave him the dark secret of Eulalie.
Whenever Londoners get blown up by the Luftwaffe, the IRA or suicide bombers, they give the response "I've been blown up by a better class of bastard than this"0 -
One suspects wrongly.AndyJS said:One suspects the reason so many Musims were let into France in the first place was not because they were valued as ordinary citizens but rather as voting fodder for people with particular ideological beliefs. If that's anywhere near the truth, it's no wonder there are so many problems now.
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"Luckily" (if you can call it that), Kingsmill ended the spate of tit-for-tat killings in South Armagh at the time.CarlottaVance said:
And relgion had nothing to do with it?Sunil_Prasannan said:
And in response to the Loyalist UVF killings of the Catholic Reavey and O'Dowd families the day before.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre0 -
Not to mention honorary members of the Ilford Massive.Sunil_Prasannan said:
We are East London Intellectuals after all!Peter_the_Punter said:
Nobody could possibly have imagined it of a man of your education and distinction, Sunil.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Lucky I don't have a mullet, thenPeter_the_Punter said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Yebbut Mullets are the classic 80s look!TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm an advocate of Sharia Law for people with mullets.RobD said:
Likewise the people who say we should have Sharia law. Erm, how about we keep British law.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamic, bugger off to the Islamic State.
No, I think TSE is right about mullets.
No punishment can be too severe.
0 -
Not a coincidence, but not done in the name of Christianity, or one of its sects, either.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
The division in Northern Ireland was never about religion. It just happened (with a little manipulation by the Brits) that the division largely, but far from perfectly, followed the religious division. Many of the greatest heroes in Nationalism and Republicanism (including some of its "terrorists") were actually Protestants for example...0 -
They killed 21 of my fellow Brummies in Birmingham pubs. Do you have a joke to crack about that? Try showing some maturity occasionally.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=2140 -
Ahem that is what happened in Britain, in France it was more about Morocco and Algeria imploding in the 1950's that created a culture of accepting people of african and middle eastern descent, after all the initial wave were millions of french colonialists from those regions emigrating to France with the collapse of the French empire.AndyJS said:One suspects the reason so many Musims were let into France in the first place was not because they were valued as ordinary citizens but rather as voting fodder for people with particular ideological beliefs. If that's anywhere near the truth, it's no wonder there are so many problems now.
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Religion is often used as a marker for tribe. Religion is beside the point.RodCrosby said:
Not a coincidence, but not done in the name of Christianity, or one of its sects, either.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
The division in Northern Ireland was never about religion. It just happened (with a little manipulation by the Brits) that the division largely, but far from perfectly, followed the religious division. Many of the greatest heroes in Nationalism and Republicanism (including some of its "terrorists") were actually Protestants for example...
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Sorry for any offence. I take it the answer to my question is "no".AlbionTilIDie said:
They killed 21 of my fellow Brummies in Birmingham pubs. Do you have a joke to crack about that? Try showing some maturity occasionally.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
BTW I'm posting this message less than 20 miles from Birmingham.0 -
Apart from the tragedy for his parents (only child of elderly immigrants) my own reaction took me aback - I was on holiday at the time 'Harrods Bombing' - tut tut - then on the flight home 'thats funny, one of the victims has the same name as one of my Uni friends'......then the following day confirmation. I was in Birmingham at the time of the pub bombings and caused a bit of a fuss when parents overheard a discussion in the 6th Form Common room 'a teacher with an Irish accent arguing in favour of the IRA' was in fact 'a pupil with a Scottish accent arguing against stringing them all up....'Sunil_Prasannan said:
Sorry to hear of your loss, Carlotta.CarlottaVance said:
Then you'll find the name of one of my University friends - Philip Geddes, Journalist, on it - we don't know whether he ignored advice to stay inside Harrods and was in search of a story, or was just in the wrong place at the wrong time - and we never will.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I am well aware of the Sutton Database, thanks...Flightpath said:
A facile insult to the dead. Do you want a list of all the inconsequential people they murdered?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did they hunt down and execute cartoonists?CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
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Wolfe Tone and the United IrishmenRodCrosby said:
Not a coincidence, but not done in the name of Christianity, or one of its sects, either.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
The division in Northern Ireland was never about religion. It just happened (with a little manipulation by the Brits) that the division largely, but far from perfectly, followed the religious division. Many of the greatest heroes in Nationalism and Republicanism (including some of its "terrorists") were actually Protestants for example...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfe_Tone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protestant_Irish_nationalists0 -
I think due to events of today 3/1 sounds right, that is until opinion polls in France determine the size of the impact.Pulpstar said:
888sport/unibet were 7-1, 4-1 sounds about right.Speedy said:2 threads ago on PB it was all about UKIP going down.
Events
Marine Le Pen to be next French President are at 4/1 with Paddy, it's a steal.
"The End of History", ha.0 -
Agreed!Casino_Royale said:
Seconded.Peter_the_Punter said:Well done, Marf, and well done Mike for publishing it.
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Wonder how Roy Greenslade is feeling today seeing journo's killed by "Freedom Fighters" ?
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What's your explanation?Pong said:
One suspects wrongly.AndyJS said:One suspects the reason so many Musims were let into France in the first place was not because they were valued as ordinary citizens but rather as voting fodder for people with particular ideological beliefs. If that's anywhere near the truth, it's no wonder there are so many problems now.
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We learn that these poor journalists were threatened with death on an almost daily basis.
Did the police investigate these? were there any prosecutions?? Or were the journalists just left to get on with it
If so, you could argue these deaths are the direct result of a massive failure of security by the French state. Perhaps Hollande should consider resigning.0 -
Incidentally my Muslim friends now (a different circle to those I knew in the 90s) are not going to be revelling at what happened in Paris, they're going to be absolutely horrified. I don't think expecting people to apologise for being Muslim, or to apologise on behalf of a bunch of nutters who they don't feel represent them, is any good to anyone. They just want to make dua, go to mosque, and get on with their daily business like everyone else.
The traditional British virtue of Free Speech may well extend to calling them all a bunch of paedophile-followers, members of the religion of piss, people who we should "not go easy on". But that is the kind of sentiment that people who do support this kind of vile attack, generally love to see expressed.
The new generation of jihadis generally have a very eschatological flavour to their worldview. They see the world as teetering on the brink of an apocalypse - a final pitched battle between the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Kufr. IS's proclamation of a new caliphate can be seen along those lines, and they give specific end-times prophetic justification for some of their worst atrocities such as the wiping out of the Yazidi. A cataclysmic "us-vs-them" bifurcation of the world into "believers" and their enemies, is precisely what they want to achieve. The inevitable public backlash that's whipped up against Muslims, particularly Western-dwelling ones, after these atrocities is pretty much a component of the gameplan.0 -
It's a consequence of French colonial policy in the mahgreb. France regarded their North african colonies, especially Algeria, as an integral part of the French state. People moving from France to the mahgreb and vice versa was barely thought of as "immigration" until later on in the 20th century.AndyJS said:
What's your explanation?Pong said:
One suspects wrongly.AndyJS said:One suspects the reason so many Musims were let into France in the first place was not because they were valued as ordinary citizens but rather as voting fodder for people with particular ideological beliefs. If that's anywhere near the truth, it's no wonder there are so many problems now.
I'm really no expert, but I know that implying Muslims were intentionally "let in" to france as "voting fodder" is revisionist bullshit.0 -
A fair number of Algerian Muslims fought against the FLN, and left for Metropolitan France when de Gaulle decided to grant Independence.0
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In the last few weeks the french army started patrolling the streets:taffys said:We learn that these poor journalists were threatened with death on an almost daily basis.
Did the police investigate these? were there any prosecutions?? Or were the journalists just left to get on with it
If so, you could argue these deaths are the direct result of a massive failure of security by the French state. Perhaps Hollande should consider resigning.
http://www.newsweek.com/french-arrest-4th-lone-wolf-soldiers-sent-streets-patrol-294316
There is a Northern Ireland analogy already to what is going on in France.0 -
There is an old saw, that in Britain 'class trumps race', while in America 'race trumps class', which when I heard it initially struck me as odd - my friends come in all hues - but, inevitably most are from similar educational backgrounds - whereas many of the (white) people I grew up with, but who followed different paths, I no longer am.TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
Your grandfather understood his new home well.
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Telling the truth to jihadists on Twitter until they get enraged is a very cathartic experience.0
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Well said.MyBurningEars said:Incidentally my Muslim friends now (a different circle to those I knew in the 90s) are not going to be revelling at what happened in Paris, they're going to be absolutely horrified. I don't think expecting people to apologise for being Muslim, or to apologise on behalf of a bunch of nutters who they don't feel represent them, is any good to anyone. They just want to make dua, go to mosque, and get on with their daily business like everyone else.
The traditional British virtue of Free Speech may well extend to calling them all a bunch of paedophile-followers, members of the religion of piss, people who we should "not go easy on". But that is the kind of sentiment that people who do support this kind of vile attack, generally love to see expressed.
The new generation of jihadis generally have a very eschatological flavour to their worldview. They see the world as teetering on the brink of an apocalypse - a final pitched battle between the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Kufr. IS's proclamation of a new caliphate can be seen along those lines, and they give specific end-times prophetic justification for some of their worst atrocities such as the wiping out of the Yazidi. A cataclysmic "us-vs-them" bifurcation of the world into "believers" and their enemies, is precisely what they want to achieve. The inevitable public backlash that's whipped up against Muslims, particularly Western-dwelling ones, after these atrocities is pretty much a component of the gameplan.0 -
Loads more, Grattan, Casement, Douglas Hyde, Roddy McCorley...Sunil_Prasannan said:
Wolfe Tone and the United IrishmenRodCrosby said:
Not a coincidence, but not done in the name of Christianity, or one of its sects, either.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
The division in Northern Ireland was never about religion. It just happened (with a little manipulation by the Brits) that the division largely, but far from perfectly, followed the religious division. Many of the greatest heroes in Nationalism and Republicanism (including some of its "terrorists") were actually Protestants for example...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfe_Tone
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Protestant_Irish_nationalists0 -
That claim does not stand up to the evidence. NI was not a religious war.Alistair said:
A pure coincidence Protestants murdered Catholics and Catholics murdered Protestants then?Socrates said:
The IRA bombing campaign was done in the name of Irish nationalism, not Christianity.CarlottaVance said:
Er.....those of us alive in the 60s and 70s remember a rather different time, what with the Christian IRA bombing campaign......isam said:The Road to National Suicide
Explains why there wasn't extremist violence in the 60s and 70s, but there is now
http://commonsense.websanon.com/?p=214
At the Kingsmill massacre it was a fluke random chance that of the 12 people on the minibus it was the Catholic who was left unharmed and the 11 Protestants were shot?
The IRA spent a lot of time torturing and killing Catholics to keep them in line, for example.
They killed more than 300 Catholics from Northern Ireland.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html
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'I don't think expecting people to apologise for being Muslim, or to apologise on behalf of a bunch of nutters who they don't feel represent them, is any good to anyone.'
That may well be true, but the equation is simple.
Did we have islamification and islamism before we imported islam?
No.0 -
Shadsy
Why I’m backing a Labour minority government
http://politicalbookie.com/2015/01/07/why-im-backing-a-labour-minority-government/?hootPostID=140d77c4275e8a644057da03a5e94b61
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The Northern Irish conflict was almost entirely about nationalism with religion used as a proxy.0
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@mikkiconnors The UKIP shops pictured are Newark, Plymouth, Thanet and Penarth. pic.twitter.com/x6sgy3zSRR
— Thomas Everett (@george3612) January 7, 20150 -
FPT:
I think the Philippines might be slightly surprised to read that.CarlottaVance said:
It is now South East Asia's only effectively functioning democracy - from kleptocratic dictatorship 15 years ago.0 -
@Antifrank tipped this one up a while back, I'm on at various prices.TheScreamingEagles said:Shadsy
Why I’m backing a Labour minority government
http://politicalbookie.com/2015/01/07/why-im-backing-a-labour-minority-government/?hootPostID=140d77c4275e8a644057da03a5e94b61
Mind you I remember the Bristol mayor "tip" that Shadsy gave on his own book.,.....0 -
Reports of a car exploding outside a synagogue in Paris...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html
Killers said "We're Al-Qaeda, in Yemen"0 -
French streets have to all intents and purposes been patrolled by the army for years, since the Gendarmerie is a military organisation charged with police duties.Speedy said:
In the last few weeks the french army started patrolling the streets:taffys said:We learn that these poor journalists were threatened with death on an almost daily basis.
Did the police investigate these? were there any prosecutions?? Or were the journalists just left to get on with it
If so, you could argue these deaths are the direct result of a massive failure of security by the French state. Perhaps Hollande should consider resigning.
http://www.newsweek.com/french-arrest-4th-lone-wolf-soldiers-sent-streets-patrol-2943160 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. Eagles, Shadsy might be right, but this election is damned hard to call.0 -
So you'll both wait supinely to have your open throats cut, instead. Well rather you than me.Danny565 said:
Well said.MyBurningEars said:Incidentally my Muslim friends now (a different circle to those I knew in the 90s) are not going to be revelling at what happened in Paris, they're going to be absolutely horrified. I don't think expecting people to apologise for being Muslim, or to apologise on behalf of a bunch of nutters who they don't feel represent them, is any good to anyone. They just want to make dua, go to mosque, and get on with their daily business like everyone else.
The traditional British virtue of Free Speech may well extend to calling them all a bunch of paedophile-followers, members of the religion of piss, people who we should "not go easy on". But that is the kind of sentiment that people who do support this kind of vile attack, generally love to see expressed.
The new generation of jihadis generally have a very eschatological flavour to their worldview. They see the world as teetering on the brink of an apocalypse - a final pitched battle between the Dar al-Islam and the Dar al-Kufr. IS's proclamation of a new caliphate can be seen along those lines, and they give specific end-times prophetic justification for some of their worst atrocities such as the wiping out of the Yazidi. A cataclysmic "us-vs-them" bifurcation of the world into "believers" and their enemies, is precisely what they want to achieve. The inevitable public backlash that's whipped up against Muslims, particularly Western-dwelling ones, after these atrocities is pretty much a component of the gameplan.0 -
The point is that it didn't prevent the attack.TheWatcher said:
French streets have to all intents and purposes been patrolled by the army for years, since the Gendarmerie is a military organisation charged with police duties.Speedy said:
In the last few weeks the french army started patrolling the streets:taffys said:We learn that these poor journalists were threatened with death on an almost daily basis.
Did the police investigate these? were there any prosecutions?? Or were the journalists just left to get on with it
If so, you could argue these deaths are the direct result of a massive failure of security by the French state. Perhaps Hollande should consider resigning.
http://www.newsweek.com/french-arrest-4th-lone-wolf-soldiers-sent-streets-patrol-2943160 -
''The inevitable public backlash that's whipped up against Muslims, particularly Western-dwelling ones, after these atrocities is pretty much a component of the gameplan.''
With respect that is bullsh8t. The last thing the islamists want is for us to fight. They'd far rather advance their cause bit by bit, as they have done for centuries, winning little violent battles where the odds are stacked heavily in their favour, with people like you urging everybody to calm down at the same time.0 -
MBE,
"Incidentally my Muslim friends ... are not going to be revelling at what happened in Paris, they're going to be absolutely horrified."
Of course. I suspect most Muslims will think that.
The more religious will think that British girls show too much flesh and are not modest enough. They won't think much of homosexuality or pornography either. Similar to Mary Whitehouse in her prime. And they're fully entitled to those views, some Christians think that too.
But if, as estimated, around five hundred want to join IS, then I would guess about ten times that number will have sympathy for ISIS aims. It's a very low percentage of the total but a worrying number all the same.0 -
The Guardian treads a difficult path, explaining (but not condoning, as some critics aver) the reaction of some muslims to Charlie Hebdo's cartoons:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/07/charlie-hebdo-islam-prophet-muhammad?CMP=twt_gu0 -
Second attack in a day in Paris?RodCrosby said:Reports of a car exploding outside a synagogue in Paris...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html
Killers said "We're Al-Qaeda, in Yemen"0 -
Moses said this on the previous thread: "It comes to something when the reaction to questioning a faith is not reasoned debate but cold blooded murder. "
Why are we surprised? We had book burning and threats to kill over 30 years over Rushdie. We should have listened then and acted then.
Now the fight back - and I am clear that we will have to fight back against those who would silence us - will be that much harder.0 -
In Sarcelles, just outside Paris. "Mechanical failure" being blamed at the moment...Speedy said:
Second attack in a day in Paris?RodCrosby said:Reports of a car exploding outside a synagogue in Paris...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html
Killers said "We're Al-Qaeda, in Yemen"
http://jpupdates.com/2015/01/07/breaking-car-explosion-reported-outside-paris-synagogue/0 -
By the way this was yesterday:
http://www.thelocal.fr/20150106/anti-islam-pegida-movement-to-france
"French anti-Islamists, inspired by the huge turn-outs at the xenophobic “Pegida” demos in Germany, have organised a protest for Paris later this month. While the organiser tells The Local “it’s just a first step”, experts say it could never take off in France."
"The call has been sent out for those who oppose the “Islamisation of France” to make their feelings known in front of the Paris stock exchange on January 18th."
How will that turn out now, I don't know.
Those islamic terrorists might want to stir thing up further, I would send the police around the protest just in case.0 -
Miss Cyclefree, we should.
But I doubt we will.
As I wrote a couple of threads ago, there was no publication here of the 2005 Danish cartoons. The march of thousands of lunatics was allowed to go ahead. In the recent Jesus and Mo story there was censorship of Mohammed, practically a self-inflicted blasphemy law. Politicians have been keener to restrict than protect freedom of speech (eg Leveson and the police monitoring Twitter, which may explain why they don't have resources for other concerns).0 -
Excellent post.TheScreamingEagles said:
How would I end the segregation? That is more difficult.Casino_Royale said:TheScreamingEagles said:FPT
I'm not sure.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think we should do? What would the right response from us look like?TheScreamingEagles said:
To be fair to Sean, when he wanted to intern all Muslims, a bomb had just exploded not far from his house.Neil said:
Well, if he accepts the need for a trial before imprisonment it will be progress of sorts.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'd end the de fact segregation of the races and cultures that exist in this country for starters.
I've said a few times on here and elsewhere, I was fortunate that I grew up in the very middle class Dore and not Darnall surrounded by other people of Pakistani heritage.
My grandparents' generation never indulged in the nonsense some of the latter generation do. My Grandfather was a namazi (proper religous type who prayed 5 times a day) he would never think of hurting anyone or declare a fatwa on someone who offered him a sausage roll.
My grandfather said I should be very grateful to this country and I am.
If you're not happy with this country and/or prefer a country to be Islamist, bugger off to the Islamic State.
I responding in full on the previous thread. I agree with you. Well said.
What makes this attack so tragic is that in this country, when we've had to deal with extremists we've done it through the medium of satire.
How did we mock Oswald Mosley and the blackshirts, took the piss out of them, and P.G. Wodehouse satirised them via Roderick Spode and gave him the dark secret of Eulalie.
Whenever Londoners get blown up by the Luftwaffe, the IRA or suicide bombers, they give the response "I've been blown up by a better class of bastard than this"0 -
Fair comment - the Philippines has come a long way too - while the economic paragons, Singapore and Malaysia still have a way to go. The less said about Thailand, the better.....Indigo said:FPT:
I think the Philippines might be slightly surprised to read that.CarlottaVance said:
It is now South East Asia's only effectively functioning democracy - from kleptocratic dictatorship 15 years ago.
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And talking of massacres I'd still like to know the name, religion and age of the Glaswegian driver and his 2 co workers that the Council and police are keeping under wraps.0
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