Skip to content

Reform councillors are revolting. Is Farage in trouble? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,623
edited February 3 in General
imageReform councillors are revolting. Is Farage in trouble? – politicalbetting.com

EXC. A dozen Reform UK councillors have resigned en masse from the party in protest at Nigel Farage's leadershiphttps://t.co/pHZMsJbW18

Read the full story here

«13456789

Comments

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,106
    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    edited January 11
    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre time for Reform to implode it seems to me.
    Fwiw my guess is Farage will outlast whoever Musk et Al. fall behind in British politics. He's been around a long time and knows what he is doing.

    Farage will survive, after all he owns the party, hence the lack of internal democracy that upset these councillors.

    His parties do have a long history of internal brutal feuding, defections and splits. A pattern so recurrent that Farage himself must be a factor.

    Incidentally the about face on Begum shows who is really running things. Take back control? My arse!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,610
    Farage calling for Begum's return is probably the single issue most likely to cause Reform heads to explode.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,779
    MarqueeMark said:

    Farage calling for Begum's return is probably the single issue most likely to cause Reform heads to explode.

    There is some logic: if you're a nationalist, citizenship has to mean something.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,610
    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,666
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    When did you work out that these lines weren’t working with the laydeez?
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,230
    Is the fed rate cutting cycle over before it started. Bank of America thinks so. Inflation persists and job hires far higher than expected.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1877745655197643260?s=61
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,610
    edited January 11
    carnforth said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Farage calling for Begum's return is probably the single issue most likely to cause Reform heads to explode.

    There is some logic: if you're a nationalist, citizenship has to mean something.
    If you're a nationalist, the abilty to exclude people from citizenship has to mean more.

    One of the great drivers of Brexit was when Merkel opened the EU's borders.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,828
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,109
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    On the A 24 northbound from Horsham at Kingsfold there is a large pub with a now forgettable name such that I cannot recall it.

    I was visiting my then girlfriend c 1979 and went past this pub which at the time was called Cromwells. I have no idea why it was so named.
    When we married, we got a lovely grey (and white chested) cat, he was called Cromwell. I bought a placemat from the pub for an exorbitant £5 and Crommy had his own mat. He was a lovely cat with a magical.personality.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,865
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    When did you work out that these lines weren’t working with the laydeez?
    TSE did manage to work in a reference to Mel Brooks this time round. Or so I suspect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,608
    edited January 11
    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,666
    edited January 11
    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre time for Reform to implode it seems to me.
    Fwiw my guess is Farage will outlast whoever Musk et Al. fall behind in British politics. He's been around a long time and knows what he is doing.

    Yes, Farage is the floater that always returns. However if he’s serious about being an influence in or even leading a government, now has to be his time. The cycle will move on after various populist right governments turn out to be as crap as (or even crappier than) everyone else, and Musk is sectioned.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,865
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    He can also go to Blantyre on Scotrail and visit Livingstone's birthplace cottage.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,865
    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Was the same in laissez-faire Victorian Britain. Vide railway schemes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,238
    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    When did you work out that these lines weren’t working with the laydeez?
    When I went to university.

    Prior to that I was a good Muslim, I had no interest in the laydeez as I was expected to have an arranged marriage and remain chaste and innocent until then.

    My father had me privately educated to ensure I had a fantastic education, my mother had me privately educated because there'd be no girls to corrupt her only child.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,261
    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,828
    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    From RefUK to repeatedly fucking themselves?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,800
    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Labour will hope they limp on at a reasonable vote share without ever quite breaking through.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,787
    edited January 11
    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Yes. Here's a really good article about why Madrid's metro expansion in the 90s cost about a tenth as much per mile as London's Jubilee line extension.

    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/

    Most of the extra cost was arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucracy in various different ways.

    As we have the stereotype an arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucrat as PM, nothing will change for the next few years at least.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,828
    TimS said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Labour will hope they limp on at a reasonable vote share without ever quite breaking through.
    Well, that plan failed. They got the reasonable vote share but it led to a massive majority.

    Oh, you mean RefUK?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,238
    The Bank of Mum and Dad is becoming the Hotel of Mum and Dad, new research reveals, with the housing crisis leading to a rise in young adults living with their parents.

    The proportion of 25 to 34-year-olds residing with their parents has increased by more than a third in just under two decades, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) in its Hotel of Mum and Dad? report.

    Almost a fifth (18 per cent) of this age group was living at their family home last year, up from 13 per cent in 2006. While the latest figure is down slightly from a pandemic peak of 21 per cent, the five percentage point increase is still estimated to represent about 450,000 more people in this age group living with parents in 2024 than if the proportion had stayed at its 2006 level.

    The IFS said people with lower incomes were more likely to live at home, adding that the rise over recent decades had been “fuelled by” higher rents and soaring house prices.

    Of 25 to 34-year-olds, men were more likely than women to live with their parents: 23 per cent compared with 15 per cent. Rates were also higher among young people born in the UK with Bangladeshi heritage, of whom 62 per cent lived at home, and half of young people with Indian backgrounds did so.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/hotel-of-mum-and-dad-one-in-five-25-to-34-year-olds-live-at-home-mn90sw702
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,238
    Carnyx said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    When did you work out that these lines weren’t working with the laydeez?
    TSE did manage to work in a reference to Mel Brooks this time round. Or so I suspect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk47saogI8o
    It's one of my favourite scenes, it is a headline I have used in the past.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/06/26/the-celts-are-revolting/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,472
    MarqueeMark said:

    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.

    All his ambitions realised at once.

    Wealth he could only dream of and the Coutts (autocorrected to Courts) bank account that comes with that.

    That whole episode demonstrated what a shallow, narcissistic, thin-skinned popinjay he is.

    Good for the Tories, and with Jenrick going full General Franco the nutjobs have a home too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,472
    MarqueeMark said:

    Farage calling for Begum's return is probably the single issue most likely to cause Reform heads to explode.

    Isn't that simply relaying an instruction given to him by his handler Sebastian Gorka?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,472
    Fascinating header, but a little disappointed that TSE missed the opportunity to spoil us with THAT picture of Farage.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    Mexicanpete said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.

    All his ambitions realised at once.

    Wealth he could only dream of and the Coutts (autocorrected to Courts) bank account that comes with that.

    That whole episode demonstrated what a shallow, narcissistic, thin-skinned popinjay he is.

    Good for the Tories, and with Jenrick going full General Franco the nutjobs have a home too.
    Farage made rather a lot of money out of that episode. Coutts had to pay him enough to qualify for a Coutts account. They really, really fucked up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Reform imploding would no doubt help the Tories, but probably not where near what @HYUFD simple arithmetic shows. I suspect that many RefUKers are NOTA and will head in a variety of other directions, particularly DNV.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,790
    @DavidL I have sent you a private message - just a prompt in the event you haven’t seen it yet!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,389
    edited January 11
    Mexicanpete said:

    Fascinating header, but a little disappointed that TSE missed the opportunity to spoil us with THAT picture of Farage.

    I'm not.

    More on topic, does the last fortnight push back the time that RefUK is judged by its owner an organisation that's ready for what Franco called "Inorganic Democracy" (i.e. what normal people call democracy)?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,472
    Malmesbury said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.

    All his ambitions realised at once.

    Wealth he could only dream of and the Coutts (autocorrected to Courts) bank account that comes with that.

    That whole episode demonstrated what a shallow, narcissistic, thin-skinned popinjay he is.

    Good for the Tories, and with Jenrick going full General Franco the nutjobs have a home too.
    Farage made rather a lot of money out of that episode. Coutts had to pay him enough to qualify for a Coutts account. They really, really fucked up.
    That was an unintended bonus for Farage, alongside the firing of the CEO. His original beef was due to outraged entitlement.

    Anyway, I was the only poster for seven minutes. I cleared the room! Do I smell like Trump?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,372
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The Bank of Mum and Dad is becoming the Hotel of Mum and Dad, new research reveals, with the housing crisis leading to a rise in young adults living with their parents.

    The proportion of 25 to 34-year-olds residing with their parents has increased by more than a third in just under two decades, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) in its Hotel of Mum and Dad? report.

    Almost a fifth (18 per cent) of this age group was living at their family home last year, up from 13 per cent in 2006. While the latest figure is down slightly from a pandemic peak of 21 per cent, the five percentage point increase is still estimated to represent about 450,000 more people in this age group living with parents in 2024 than if the proportion had stayed at its 2006 level.

    The IFS said people with lower incomes were more likely to live at home, adding that the rise over recent decades had been “fuelled by” higher rents and soaring house prices.

    Of 25 to 34-year-olds, men were more likely than women to live with their parents: 23 per cent compared with 15 per cent. Rates were also higher among young people born in the UK with Bangladeshi heritage, of whom 62 per cent lived at home, and half of young people with Indian backgrounds did so.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/hotel-of-mum-and-dad-one-in-five-25-to-34-year-olds-live-at-home-mn90sw702

    Interesting gender split given that women tend to be earn (be paid) less. Either much lower levels of discretionary spending or living with older men (or their boyfriend's parents?).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    F1: just seen on Twitter the rumour that Doohan only has a firm contract for the first six races (1/4 season). If so, makes the odd choice of Colapinto as reserve (instant pressure) more explicable.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,389
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Reform imploding would no doubt help the Tories, but probably not where near what @HYUFD simple arithmetic shows. I suspect that many RefUKers are NOTA and will head in a variety of other directions, particularly DNV.
    Or yet another new party with 1 MP, 3 parish councillors, a YouTube channel and less subtlety in going after Musk's money and the Fairly Secret Army vote.

    There must be plenty of words beginning with "Re-" available as party names.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,372
    Mexicanpete said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.

    All his ambitions realised at once.

    Wealth he could only dream of and the Coutts (autocorrected to Courts) bank account that comes with that.

    That whole episode demonstrated what a shallow, narcissistic, thin-skinned popinjay he is.

    Good for the Tories, and with Jenrick going full General Franco the nutjobs have a home too.
    Farage's change in position would seem to consistent with Reform's concern for the victims of Muslim grooming gangs.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,518
    As the incoming Trump administration is threatening Canada, Canada has sent firefighting planes to help fight the LA fires.

    Trump's America is the neighbour from hell. Canada is the sort of neighbour everyone wants.

    (One Canadian plane is out of service after hitting a civilian-flown drone: https://www.chrisd.ca/2025/01/10/california-wildfires-canadian-plane-drone-crash/.)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    edited January 11
    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    If anybody really hates Twitter but wants to leave a means of contact, that's ok too. I appreciate people might not want to share their e-mail (although if I am an evil nefarious chap then waiting 16 years to gather e-mails is a pretty long con).

    Edited extra bit: 18 years. I joined the site in 2007.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 480
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    That should be Livingston Thompson (no E in the first name). Hasn't run since 1971. Currently on long term loan to the National Railway Museum in York.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,828
    prh47bridge said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    That should be Livingston Thompson (no E in the first name). Hasn't run since 1971. Currently on long term loan to the National Railway Museum in York.
    No e?

    Sounds fishy.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    ydoethur said:

    prh47bridge said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    That should be Livingston Thompson (no E in the first name). Hasn't run since 1971. Currently on long term loan to the National Railway Museum in York.
    No e?

    Sounds fishy.
    I'd be loath to spell it that way.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,106
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    He can also go to Blantyre on Scotrail and visit Livingstone's birthplace cottage.
    I was once crown junior in a murder trial in Glasgow where the heinous and indeed capital offence of the deceased was to enter Upper Blantyre when he belonged in Lower Blantyre.

    Never had any inclination to visit it since, really.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,230
    edited January 11
    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Yes. Here's a really good article about why Madrid's metro expansion in the 90s cost about a tenth as much per mile as London's Jubilee line extension.

    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/

    Most of the extra cost was arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucracy in various different ways.

    As we have the stereotype an arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucrat as PM, nothing will change for the next few years at least.
    The same PM who has approached regulators, these very pen pushers, to ask how to drive growth instead of people who can actually drive growth.

    He’s a complete idiot.

    This is mid seventies all over again. An incompetent Tory govt replaced by an incompetent labour govt. We’re screwed and if we’re unlucky we’ve got a return of stagflation. Certainly the inept Reeves won’t have helped.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,230
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    I remember saying on here years ago that Shamima Begum was our problem and she should come back to the UK - and receiving such a ferocious and unpleasant PB rightist pile-on in response that I almost stopped posting here. Now apparently Farage agrees with me. Crazy world.

    I’ve said the same before to no unpleasantness just disagreement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,865
    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Yes. Here's a really good article about why Madrid's metro expansion in the 90s cost about a tenth as much per mile as London's Jubilee line extension.

    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/

    Most of the extra cost was arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucracy in various different ways.

    As we have the stereotype an arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucrat as PM, nothing will change for the next few years at least.
    The same PM who has approached regulators, these very pen pushers, to ask how to drive growth instead of people who can actually drive growth.

    He’s a complete idiot.

    This is mid seventies all over again. An incompetent Tory govt replaced by an incompetent labour govt. We’re screwed.
    Doesn't mean he isn't asking other people in different letters.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,121
    edited January 11
    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    Matt is available on Twitter so that you don't have to go to your local petrol station to see it. The only other use for it SFAICS is that occasionally PBers link via Twitter to something interesting. Does it have other uses?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    Morris_Dancer said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    If anybody really hates Twitter but wants to leave a means of contact, that's ok too. I appreciate people might not want to share their e-mail (although if I am an evil nefarious chap then waiting 16 years to gather e-mails is a pretty long con).

    Edited extra bit: 18 years. I joined the site in 2007.
    There are a lot of us on Bluesky. Possibly more than Twitter now.

    https://bsky.app/profile/foxinsoxuk.bsky.social
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,501
    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,767
    OT

    On Radio5 this morning they were interviewing a Brit living in LA about the loss of his home. Very upsetting for him and his family. He's back now in the UK.

    They introduced him as an Expat. Is that posh speak for immigrant?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,818
    Dopermean said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The Bank of Mum and Dad is becoming the Hotel of Mum and Dad, new research reveals, with the housing crisis leading to a rise in young adults living with their parents.

    The proportion of 25 to 34-year-olds residing with their parents has increased by more than a third in just under two decades, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) in its Hotel of Mum and Dad? report.

    Almost a fifth (18 per cent) of this age group was living at their family home last year, up from 13 per cent in 2006. While the latest figure is down slightly from a pandemic peak of 21 per cent, the five percentage point increase is still estimated to represent about 450,000 more people in this age group living with parents in 2024 than if the proportion had stayed at its 2006 level.

    The IFS said people with lower incomes were more likely to live at home, adding that the rise over recent decades had been “fuelled by” higher rents and soaring house prices.

    Of 25 to 34-year-olds, men were more likely than women to live with their parents: 23 per cent compared with 15 per cent. Rates were also higher among young people born in the UK with Bangladeshi heritage, of whom 62 per cent lived at home, and half of young people with Indian backgrounds did so.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/hotel-of-mum-and-dad-one-in-five-25-to-34-year-olds-live-at-home-mn90sw702

    Interesting gender split given that women tend to be earn (be paid) less. Either much lower levels of discretionary spending or living with older men (or their boyfriend's parents?).
    From my own circles, I'd say it has a lot to do with relationship breakdown. Couple set up home together, have children, separate, woman keeps children and accommodation, man can't afford accommodation of his own, often only choice is between sleeping rough or staying with Mum & Dad.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,817
    Foxy said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    If anybody really hates Twitter but wants to leave a means of contact, that's ok too. I appreciate people might not want to share their e-mail (although if I am an evil nefarious chap then waiting 16 years to gather e-mails is a pretty long con).

    Edited extra bit: 18 years. I joined the site in 2007.
    There are a lot of us on Bluesky. Possibly more than Twitter now.

    https://bsky.app/profile/foxinsoxuk.bsky.social
    I was considering making an account there but momentum seemed to dull. May do so in the future. Noted your account, cheers.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,121
    Question re Reform and its legal structure. What legal structure do most political parties use and why? Should there be a particular legal structure that all political parties are required to have (eg so that they are accountable to someone or so that they can't be sold to Musk or whatever?) Is this an area where it suits all powerful vested interests not to visit? Is there a simple way of discovering the legal structure of any registered political party?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,800
    edited January 11
    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    Matt is available on Twitter so that you don't have to go to your local petrol station to see it. The only other use for it SFAICS is that occasionally PBers link via Twitter to something interesting. Does it have other uses?
    Weather pictures and stats. And it’s still good for breaking news stories. The two problems are the spam ads, which contrary to Taz’s experience I’d say have got much worse and are quite often out and out scams, and the comments. Never read the comments
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,351
    Stuartinromford said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Reform imploding would no doubt help the Tories, but probably not where near what @HYUFD simple arithmetic shows. I suspect that many RefUKers are NOTA and will head in a variety of other directions, particularly DNV.
    Or yet another new party with 1 MP, 3 parish councillors, a YouTube channel and less subtlety in going after Musk's money and the Fairly Secret Army vote.

    There must be plenty of words beginning with "Re-" available as party names.
    ReBRUV?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    JosiasJessop said:

    As the incoming Trump administration is threatening Canada, Canada has sent firefighting planes to help fight the LA fires.

    Trump's America is the neighbour from hell. Canada is the sort of neighbour everyone wants.

    (One Canadian plane is out of service after hitting a civilian-flown drone: https://www.chrisd.ca/2025/01/10/california-wildfires-canadian-plane-drone-crash/.)

    Mexican firefighters too, all volunteers:

    https://belatina.com/mexican-firefighters-rush-wildfires-california/

    A further wrinkle is the use of prison firefighters, apparently 30% of the firefighters.

    https://bsky.app/profile/benstanley.pl/post/3lfcdm7fjvc2e

    This is part of the longstanding use of prison labour in the US.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,800
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Yes. Here's a really good article about why Madrid's metro expansion in the 90s cost about a tenth as much per mile as London's Jubilee line extension.

    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/

    Most of the extra cost was arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucracy in various different ways.

    As we have the stereotype an arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucrat as PM, nothing will change for the next few years at least.
    The same PM who has approached regulators, these very pen pushers, to ask how to drive growth instead of people who can actually drive growth.

    He’s a complete idiot.

    This is mid seventies all over again. An incompetent Tory govt replaced by an incompetent labour govt. We’re screwed.
    Doesn't mean he isn't asking other people in different letters.
    The idea that regulators are all anti-growth pen pushing bureaucrats is a very easy one to spread because there will always be a grain of truth there. But it seems mad to dismiss the expertise of an entire chunk of British society when those same people are the ones with he most intimate knowledge of our regulatory landscape, and especially given UK markets and industrial regulation is some of the most nimble and effective in the developed world, as our trading partners will attest.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,230
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Fishing said:

    bondegezou said:

    Why do big infrastructure projects cost so much? (US edition): https://transitcosts.com/transit-costs-study-final-report/ Answer: bureaucracy and regulation.

    Yes. Here's a really good article about why Madrid's metro expansion in the 90s cost about a tenth as much per mile as London's Jubilee line extension.

    https://worksinprogress.co/issue/how-madrid-built-its-metro-cheaply/

    Most of the extra cost was arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucracy in various different ways.

    As we have the stereotype an arrogant, incompetent, officious bureaucrat as PM, nothing will change for the next few years at least.
    The same PM who has approached regulators, these very pen pushers, to ask how to drive growth instead of people who can actually drive growth.

    He’s a complete idiot.

    This is mid seventies all over again. An incompetent Tory govt replaced by an incompetent labour govt. We’re screwed.
    Doesn't mean he isn't asking other people in different letters.
    One can only hope he is. Regulators really aren’t going to do themselves out of a job.

    I do feel there is little to be optimistic about after the budget.

    I get other countries are having similar issues with their debt but our borrowing costs are higher than our peers. Twice that of Germany.

    I just cannot see much upside currently here. Everyone wants growth but the people we have in place in politics who want to deliver it are, mostly, people with no experience of anything other than charities, NGO’s and the public sector.

    The last lot weren’t any better either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    Dopermean said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    The Bank of Mum and Dad is becoming the Hotel of Mum and Dad, new research reveals, with the housing crisis leading to a rise in young adults living with their parents.

    The proportion of 25 to 34-year-olds residing with their parents has increased by more than a third in just under two decades, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) in its Hotel of Mum and Dad? report.

    Almost a fifth (18 per cent) of this age group was living at their family home last year, up from 13 per cent in 2006. While the latest figure is down slightly from a pandemic peak of 21 per cent, the five percentage point increase is still estimated to represent about 450,000 more people in this age group living with parents in 2024 than if the proportion had stayed at its 2006 level.

    The IFS said people with lower incomes were more likely to live at home, adding that the rise over recent decades had been “fuelled by” higher rents and soaring house prices.

    Of 25 to 34-year-olds, men were more likely than women to live with their parents: 23 per cent compared with 15 per cent. Rates were also higher among young people born in the UK with Bangladeshi heritage, of whom 62 per cent lived at home, and half of young people with Indian backgrounds did so.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/society/article/hotel-of-mum-and-dad-one-in-five-25-to-34-year-olds-live-at-home-mn90sw702

    Interesting gender split given that women tend to be earn (be paid) less. Either much lower levels of discretionary spending or living with older men (or their boyfriend's parents?).
    Women earn as much as men under 30, and also tend to have more academic qualifications. It's after 40 that the gender pay gap appears.

    See figure 2 here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/bulletins/genderpaygapintheuk/2023
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,956
    Taz said:

    Is the fed rate cutting cycle over before it started. Bank of America thinks so. Inflation persists and job hires far higher than expected.

    https://x.com/kobeissiletter/status/1877745655197643260?s=61

    Ruh roh. Reeves can't catch a break
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    Mexicanpete said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    As I suggested previously, Farage could flog Reform to Musk for £50m - and toddle off into luxurious retirement.

    All his ambitions realised at once.

    Wealth he could only dream of and the Coutts (autocorrected to Courts) bank account that comes with that.

    That whole episode demonstrated what a shallow, narcissistic, thin-skinned popinjay he is.

    Good for the Tories, and with Jenrick going full General Franco the nutjobs have a home too.
    Farage made rather a lot of money out of that episode. Coutts had to pay him enough to qualify for a Coutts account. They really, really fucked up.
    That was an unintended bonus for Farage, alongside the firing of the CEO. His original beef was due to outraged entitlement.

    Anyway, I was the only poster for seven minutes. I cleared the room! Do I smell like Trump?
    It’s a bit more that just entitlement - the way they barred him made it problematic to get an account with any other bank. You may remember the case of the guy who ran TanksALot?

    Coutts didn’t just fuck up.

    Fucking up is just losing a billion of the customers money. Beyond that is losing the banks money. Beyond that is getting into regulatory fun….

    Aside from losing a truth telling competition with Nigel Farage… can’t say too much here to spare OGH from risk, but the settlement was not to their advantage.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,272
    Betting post:

    "If the crisis escalates, the only Labour politician with sufficient gravitas to genuinely calm the markets would be Gordon Brown. He could make a surprise return, in much the same way that Lord Cameron came back as foreign secretary in the last government. (It’s a long shot, I know, but worth a small bet if the bookmakers are offering odds.)"

    Telegraph
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,266
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    He can also go to Blantyre on Scotrail and visit Livingstone's birthplace cottage.
    I was once crown junior in a murder trial in Glasgow where the heinous and indeed capital offence of the deceased was to enter Upper Blantyre when he belonged in Lower Blantyre.

    Never had any inclination to visit it since, really.
    Dr. Livingstone, I presume?
    Yes indeed, Stanley. I hope you’re not here to send me home.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    What about a Signal group?

    For those who don’t know, Signal is the app from the guys who used to do WhatsApp. When they sold it to Facebook, they started Signal as WhatsApp 2.0 - it’s more secure and owned by a non-profit, so can’t be sold to mad billionaires.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,161
    edited January 11
    Theuniondivvie said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Bizarre time for Reform to implode it seems to me.
    Fwiw my guess is Farage will outlast whoever Musk et Al. fall behind in British politics. He's been around a long time and knows what he is doing.

    Yes, Farage is the floater that always returns. However if he’s serious about being an influence in or even leading a government, now has to be his time. The cycle will move on after various populist right governments turn out to be as crap as (or even crappier than) everyone else, and Musk is sectioned.
    If they want to succeed, at some point Reform will have to do the hard yards of being a political party, and build a "ground game" and not just rely on the "air war" in Musk's Twittersphere.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,266
    Stuartinromford said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Reform imploding would no doubt help the Tories, but probably not where near what @HYUFD simple arithmetic shows. I suspect that many RefUKers are NOTA and will head in a variety of other directions, particularly DNV.
    Or yet another new party with 1 MP, 3 parish councillors, a YouTube channel and less subtlety in going after Musk's money and the Fairly Secret Army vote.

    There must be plenty of words beginning with "Re-" available as party names.
    Retweet would work.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,118
    squareroot2 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    On the A 24 northbound from Horsham at Kingsfold there is a large pub with a now forgettable name such that I cannot recall it.

    I was visiting my then girlfriend c 1979 and went past this pub which at the time was called Cromwells. I have no idea why it was so named.
    When we married, we got a lovely grey (and white chested) cat, he was called Cromwell. I bought a placemat from the pub for an exorbitant £5 and Crommy had his own mat. He was a lovely cat with a magical.personality.
    When our kids were young we had a Siamese we called Christopher. Whom we addressed solely as KitKat.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,161
    Daveyboy1961 said:

    OT

    On Radio5 this morning they were interviewing a Brit living in LA about the loss of his home. Very upsetting for him and his family. He's back now in the UK.

    They introduced him as an Expat. Is that posh speak for immigrant?

    The posh word is diaspora.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    rottenborough said:

    Betting post:

    "If the crisis escalates, the only Labour politician with sufficient gravitas to genuinely calm the markets would be Gordon Brown. He could make a surprise return, in much the same way that Lord Cameron came back as foreign secretary in the last government. (It’s a long shot, I know, but worth a small bet if the bookmakers are offering odds.)"

    Telegraph

    I think the Chancellor has to be in the Commons.

    If there was a market on next Chancellor, my money would be on Yvette Cooper.

    She is a far better communicator than Reeves, is doing well in the Home Office, did 18 months a Chief Sec to the Treasury, and has useful advice over the breakfast table.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    Stuartinromford said:

    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform collapsing would be a gift to the Conservatives. They will struggle if it doesn't, in fact

    Reform imploding would no doubt help the Tories, but probably not where near what @HYUFD simple arithmetic shows. I suspect that many RefUKers are NOTA and will head in a variety of other directions, particularly DNV.
    Or yet another new party with 1 MP, 3 parish councillors, a YouTube channel and less subtlety in going after Musk's money and the Fairly Secret Army vote.

    There must be plenty of words beginning with "Re-" available as party names.
    Take a leaf out of NI politics

    Real Reform
    Really Reformed Reform
    Etc
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,518
    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    Fairliered said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    DavidL said:

    Farage always seemed a one man brand to me. i can't think of a time when he was an effective leader of any of his parties.

    Sorry to hear about your cat.

    My first cat was named after a David L.

    I named him Livingstone because he was an explorer.

    Plus Captain Picard's fish was called Livingston (no e), Christ I was such a geek in those days.
    It's also the name of one of the Ffestiniog Railway's Fairlie locomotives (Livingstone Thompson).

    That's just for Sunil.
    He can also go to Blantyre on Scotrail and visit Livingstone's birthplace cottage.
    I was once crown junior in a murder trial in Glasgow where the heinous and indeed capital offence of the deceased was to enter Upper Blantyre when he belonged in Lower Blantyre.

    Never had any inclination to visit it since, really.
    Dr. Livingstone, I presume?
    Yes indeed, Stanley. I hope you’re not here to send me home.
    The Blantyre in Malawi is quite a pleasant place, as indeed is the Livingstone in Zambia.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,230
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Foxy said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    If anybody really hates Twitter but wants to leave a means of contact, that's ok too. I appreciate people might not want to share their e-mail (although if I am an evil nefarious chap then waiting 16 years to gather e-mails is a pretty long con).

    Edited extra bit: 18 years. I joined the site in 2007.
    There are a lot of us on Bluesky. Possibly more than Twitter now.

    https://bsky.app/profile/foxinsoxuk.bsky.social
    I was considering making an account there but momentum seemed to dull. May do so in the future. Noted your account, cheers.
    There was a spurt after the election in November of people going there but sign ups have reverted back to normal as have sign ups for twitter.

    I’m quite happy with twitter. I’m using the following tab.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,787
    rottenborough said:

    Betting post:

    "If the crisis escalates, the only Labour politician with sufficient gravitas to genuinely calm the markets would be Gordon Brown. He could make a surprise return, in much the same way that Lord Cameron came back as foreign secretary in the last government. (It’s a long shot, I know, but worth a small bet if the bookmakers are offering odds.)"

    Telegraph

    Personalities matter hardly at all to the markets - what matters is having credible policies that take account of economic reality. If the government had those, it wouldn't matter whether the Chancellor was called Reeves, Brown, Starmer or Peppa Pig.

    But as it doesn't, and, as its dismal record in the last six months have shown, doesn't have any idea how to get them, and Brown given his record wouldn't help them get them, I'm afraid they are screwed.

    Which is fine, and they deserve it, but sadly the rest of the country is screwed with them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,118
    edited January 11
    Good long read which gives context to the US right's interest in Greenland.

    We should take this seriously, as it goes well beyond a Trumpian whim.

    Greenland and the Coldest War
    https://www.palladiummag.com/2025/01/10/greenland-and-the-coldest-war/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,518
    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,272
    Malmesbury said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    What about a Signal group?

    For those who don’t know, Signal is the app from the guys who used to do WhatsApp. When they sold it to Facebook, they started Signal as WhatsApp 2.0 - it’s more secure and owned by a non-profit, so can’t be sold to mad billionaires.
    Everyone I know uses bloody WhatsApp but I refuse as I'm not letting Zuckerberg on my phone. I miss out on a lot of chat. I would use Signal but no one else wants to bother.

    Hoping the day will finally come when WA messages can be ported through to Signal.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,666
    Nige is not receiving unalloyed support over Begum.
    If they’ve lost the batshit racists, what’s left?

    https://x.com/otto_english/status/1878012379184673119?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,389
    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    That's a very good case for trying her case in a British court and punishing her under British Law.

    Rather than pretending that she has nothing to do with us.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    rottenborough said:

    Malmesbury said:

    eek said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    Slight problem with that is I’m not going near X regardless of any UK laws. It’s a swamp
    What about a Signal group?

    For those who don’t know, Signal is the app from the guys who used to do WhatsApp. When they sold it to Facebook, they started Signal as WhatsApp 2.0 - it’s more secure and owned by a non-profit, so can’t be sold to mad billionaires.
    Everyone I know uses bloody WhatsApp but I refuse as I'm not letting Zuckerberg on my phone. I miss out on a lot of chat. I would use Signal but no one else wants to bother.

    Hoping the day will finally come when WA messages can be ported through to Signal.
    That would be letting Suckerberg in…
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,099
    edited January 11
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Reminder:

    anyone who wants to be added to the PB list on Twitter, let me know (I'm MorrisF1) either here or there. Hopefully won't ever be needed but if the Act of Puritanical Censorship causes PB problems it could be used to more rapidly reconstitute a new site.


    And, on a more self-absorbed note, my F1: 2025 Driver Lineup Predictions podcast (Undercutters ep4) is up here:

    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0yBF7aqAxiLHQ68No95w4Y

    Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/6edca4d8-68f8-4782-9898-2bfab4696c39/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-driver-lineup-predictions/id1786574257?i=1000683150041

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/01/undercutters-ep4-f1-2025-driver-lineup.html

    You can add me - @mattwardman.

    I'm easing out, however.

    And wondering about bringing So.Much.Guardian to Bluesky (and something like Too.Much.Telegrunt maybe). My photo quota with superb hashtag:


    https://x.com/SoMuchGuardian/status/853222751213060096
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
    The age of consent and the age of criminal responsibility differ.

    The slight problem with that argument is that she personally committed war crimes after she was over 16.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,026
    Sitrep

    Rangoon is a bit of a shithole. A shithole full of post imperial noom but a bit of a shithole nonethiess

    We built an entire and magnificent Victorian/Edwardian city on the banks of the woogly-waggly here, a mighty grid of banks and churches and city halls and customs houses and ornate Anglo-Burmese train stations - surrounding the golden pagodas - and now it all rots like a collection of Sicilian palazzi and trees grow through the roofs of the Port Authority HQ and Mon women, cheeks daubed with yellow thanaka paste, squat in the mildewed porches of the shuttered Strand Hotel selling tiny lychees and cheap Chinese dolls

    How long before it’s like that down Whitehall?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,581
    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
    I cannot give examples because of the site's policy* on discussing other cases.

    *which I support.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,026
    Also. Fuck me. How can they make it so hard to surf the net and get messages to the outside world? Because it’s harder here than anywhere I’ve ever been, I think

    And I’ve been to some repressive countries and proper war zones. Just goes to show that if a government is REALLY keen on keeping shit under wraps they can have a pretty good go
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,518
    Stuartinromford said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    That's a very good case for trying her case in a British court and punishing her under British Law.

    Rather than pretending that she has nothing to do with us.
    The problem is that I don't see what *good* that would do for anyone. It won't do the victims any good; and it'll just allow her supporters to paint her as a victim, and not someone who committed - and supported others doing - heinous acts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,344
    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
    I cannot give examples because of the site's policy* on discussing other cases.

    *which I support.
    I think the site policy doesn’t cover teenagers engaging in genocide.

    Which is what she did.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,099
    edited January 11
    algarkirk said:

    Question re Reform and its legal structure. What legal structure do most political parties use and why? Should there be a particular legal structure that all political parties are required to have (eg so that they are accountable to someone or so that they can't be sold to Musk or whatever?) Is this an area where it suits all powerful vested interests not to visit? Is there a simple way of discovering the legal structure of any registered political party?

    We did this before Christmas and @viewcode very kindly did a detailed response * when I asked; I think they tend to be unincorporated associations.

    Lots of links, too- the whole enchilada:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5068756#Comment_5068756

    *This may be 1/43rd of one of his future headers :smile: .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,501
    edited January 11
    Leon said:

    Sitrep

    Rangoon is a bit of a shithole. A shithole full of post imperial noom but a bit of a shithole nonethiess

    We built an entire and magnificent Victorian/Edwardian city on the banks of the woogly-waggly here, a mighty grid of banks and churches and city halls and customs houses and ornate Anglo-Burmese train stations - surrounding the golden pagodas - and now it all rots like a collection of Sicilian palazzi and trees grow through the roofs of the Port Authority HQ and Mon women, cheeks daubed with yellow thanaka paste, squat in the mildewed porches of the shuttered Strand Hotel selling tiny lychees and cheap Chinese dolls

    How long before it’s like that down Whitehall?

    Get yourself up to Inle lake, just make sure you have unlimited bug repellent. The balloon ride over Bagan is also a once in a lifetime type of experience. Agree that Rangoon is a shit hole though. It's probably worse than when we went in 2016.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,479
    Malmesbury said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
    The age of consent and the age of criminal responsibility differ.

    The slight problem with that argument is that she personally committed war crimes after she was over 16.
    I still think she ought to come here to be tried properly.

    And Good Morning one and all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,501
    Stuartinromford said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    That's a very good case for trying her case in a British court and punishing her under British Law.

    Rather than pretending that she has nothing to do with us.
    She committed no crimes in the UK.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,507
    Leon said:

    Sitrep

    Rangoon is a bit of a shithole. A shithole full of post imperial noom but a bit of a shithole nonethiess

    Noom.com beat you to the term!

    www.noom.com
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,501
    OldKingCole said:

    Malmesbury said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Foxy said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    MaxPB said:

    It's a mistake for Farage to say we should accept the disgusting Begum back in the UK. She can rot in Syrian prison or they can deport her to Bangladesh. Just because Trump wants us to take her back it doesn't mean we should.

    There is zero chance that she will face proper justice here for her crimes, a small slap on the wrist and probably a free council flat and benefits for life in Tower Hamlets is the most likely outcome.

    A great number of people seem to be far more concerned for her, than they are for her victims and the victims of the group she willingly joined.
    It's perfectly possible to be concerned with both.

    She was clearly groomed when underage to go to Syria.

    The ability to remove citizenship at the whim of the Home Secretary is also a dangerously authoritarian power, albeit one that many like Jenrick might like to use.
    I am very concerned about leaving someone stateless. But I also don't believe she had zero idea what she was doing when she went to Syria.

    IMV she was not a victim. Bur she created many victims.
    Some quite obvious cognitive dissonance on teenagers autonomy and consent when you compare her case to others in the news.
    Really? I can believe that, but care to give examples?

    But I'd point out that there are unlikely to be cases quite as (ahem) extreme as what she did.
    The age of consent and the age of criminal responsibility differ.

    The slight problem with that argument is that she personally committed war crimes after she was over 16.
    I still think she ought to come here to be tried properly.

    And Good Morning one and all.
    On what charges should she be tried?
This discussion has been closed.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025