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Rebuild, copy or destroy – how should we deal with our cities’ history? – politicalbetting.com

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  • eekeek Posts: 29,539
    edited January 8
    Eabhal said:

    That seems reasonable to me. Complicated bit of the economy/legals, lots of unusual transactions. DWP is 85,000, HMRC 70,000.

    Most private firms would have long ago offloaded such jobs to India etc. Not an option for the government, though it might be with AI coming along.
    It’s also self funding with its fees covering its costs.

    Mind you it would be nice if they updated the register to reflect that Twin A has owned her house since May and the council charge has been settled
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 898
    Taz said:

    Probably more because those are just the union members. In 14 offices too.
    2 years and counting since the forms were submitted to voluntarily register my parents' house and still nothing...
    Though no doubt considerably quicker to fraudulently claim and transfer ownership
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    No it doesn't, as landowners include someone who owns a 2 bed property and garden in Stoke.

    This ending of agricultural property relief is primarily going to hit farmers
    I said "Landowners whose land is used for farming". Not growing bloody chrysanthemums.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,959
    Pulpstar said:

    Wait, what the land registry has 4,000 staff o_O ?!
    They must have lots of meetings!... :)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited January 8
    Eabhal said:

    That seems reasonable to me. Complicated bit of the economy/legals, lots of unusual transactions. DWP is 85,000, HMRC 70,000.

    Most private firms would have long ago offloaded such jobs to India etc. Not an option for the government, though it might be with AI coming along.
    Also a fair amount of catching up to do in terms of the basic data, I expect. If it's like Scotland, quite a proportion of properties haven't been bought/sold recently enough to have the modern stuff on the database, especially an acceptable property map.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,539
    Dopermean said:

    2 years and counting since the forms were submitted to voluntarily register my parents' house and still nothing...
    Though no doubt considerably quicker to fraudulently claim and transfer ownership
    The fact non standard things take so long is why such fraud is possible
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,978
    edited January 8
    eek said:

    Just got the quarterly magazine through from the council. In it it has a page on the financial pressures it faces with a breakdown of spending

    Total spending £135.8m
    Adult social care £52.9m (39% of spending)
    Children’s social care £37.2m (27% of spending)

    So 66% of the whole budget is going on social care

    For those that don’t know me, that’s Darlington council small unity authority of about 115,000 residents

    Is that gross or net of service income? The story on social care changes depending on that, and it's also why splitting it between children, adults and old-age is important. You often find councils spend most on severely disabled adults on a net basis.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed, Reform will get MSPs largely proportionate to voteshare unlike MPs under FPTP and their MSPs will vote down indyref2 as much as Tory MSPs would
    Did the worm taste nice?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,406
    Good afternoon everyone.
    'Went' to an interesting Zoom on Weird Geology this morning; all sorts of odd geological features.

    On topic, until the mid-fifties a small town in the this area had in it's centre a collection of 14th, 15th, 16th and 19th buildings. One of them, quite a large one, burned down. To be fair it wasn't in good repair.
    It was replaced with a horrible Stalinist/Brutalist block of five shops with flats over. Looks wildly out of place. Local folklore has it that architecture and planning students are brought to the town to be shown what NOT to do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,942
    MaxPB said:

    I fear we're heading for a pretty nasty sovereign debt crisis despite 3x cover on 5y bonds sold today. The government is going to have to get real about the national finances and cut spending.

    I don't think it is inevitable but what is clear is that our margin of safety is being eroded. If something else were to occur that really spooked the market raising funds may rapidly become prohibitively expensive. Given recent history (Covid, Ukraine, gas prices, election of Trump etc etc) these are not risks that a government supposedly committed to stability should be taking. What we absolutely must not do is make the situation worse, as we did in the last budget.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,228
    Cyclefree said:

    Those shoes are hideous.
    I suspect more hideous would be the state of the toes protruding through them...
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766

    Why Bezos, especially?

    (That's his suborbital rocket)

    The problem is not so much the billionaires, but the lack of interest in the state actually doing stuff.

    If you want to run a country on a basis of having enquiries about enquiries about doing something... Now, you may believe that is Good Government. But in reality, you are vacating the functions of Government.

    Don't be surprised if the result of a justice system that doesn't deliver justice, is private security. This happens in every country where the police and courts don't work

    Don't be surprised if the result of a health care system that doesn't deliver is private healthcare.

    Don't be surprised if the result of an education system that doesn't deliver is private education.

    Don't be surprised if the result of a national space program is less and less - to the point of collapsing - is that private companies start delivering stuff to orbit.

    Don't be surprised if the result of not building roads is that the wealthy start buying/building the new drone/automated electric helicopters. Watch them fly overhead - quite soon, now.

    Don't be surprised. It's what you asked for.
    It is not necessarily what people ask for per se, it is simply that the public sector generally works primarily in the interests of it's workforce and bugger what the end user asks for. Most private companies (some utilities being an exception) have to respond to what the end user asks for or the shareholders lose money.

    Basically, capitalism largely works. Statism largely does not. Anyone who thinks that trains, or anything else for that matter, will be better run by a civil servant than by a business person is fundamentally stupid.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,146
    YouGov, Germany

    CDU/CSU 29%
    AfD 21%
    SPD 16%
    Green 14%
    BSW 6%
    FDP 5%
    Left 3%
    Others 6%

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,735
    edited January 8
    Carnyx said:

    Also a fair amount of catching up to do in terms of the basic data, I expect. If it's like Scotland, quite a proportion of properties haven't been bought/sold recently enough to have the modern stuff on the database, especially an acceptable property map.
    Yup. Just had this for an elderly relative. If a house hasn’t sold since 199X it won’t be on the system so everything needs doing. And away from big cites there’s always random pockets of land and stuff that turn up.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,539
    edited January 8
    Eabhal said:

    Is that gross or net of service income? The story on social care changes depending on that, and it's also why splitting it between children, adults and old-age is important. You often find councils spend most on severely disabled adults on a net basis.
    It’s listed as spending - I would need to ask.

    If someone cares to work out exactly what they need to know I will add it to a FoI request as I doubt any of it is identifiable
  • eekeek Posts: 29,539
    edited January 8

    Good afternoon everyone.
    'Went' to an interesting Zoom on Weird Geology this morning; all sorts of odd geological features.

    On topic, until the mid-fifties a small town in the this area had in it's centre a collection of 14th, 15th, 16th and 19th buildings. One of them, quite a large one, burned down. To be fair it wasn't in good repair.
    It was replaced with a horrible Stalinist/Brutalist block of five shops with flats over. Looks wildly out of place. Local folklore has it that architecture and planning students are brought to the town to be shown what NOT to do.

    That depends I know a set of planners who love brutalist architecture - not so much adding new bits but keeping the rapidly reducing number that is left as is.

    I suspect Billingham town Centre will be an interesting argument this year - it’s classic 60s and still functional in ways that other examplessuch as Newton Aycliffe aren’t (Aycliffe town Centre is too big nowadays).

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,735
    Andy_JS said:

    YouGov, Germany

    CDU/CSU 29%
    AfD 21%
    SPD 16%
    Green 14%
    BSW 6%
    FDP 5%
    Left 3%
    Others 6%

    https://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Must be a non-zero (but unlikely) chance AfD comes first if the SDP can claw back some incumbency votes.

    Will have a hunt for odds.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,942
    biggles said:

    Yup. Just had this for an elderly relative. If a house hasn’t sold since 199X it won’t be on the system so everything needs doing. And away from big cites there’s always random pockets of land and stuff that turn up.
    There are bits of Scotland that have never made it on to the Sasines Register which was established in 1617. Short of compulsory registration it is going to take a very, very long time for the Land Register to be complete.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,375
    Taz said:

    Why should we take your word for it over Max's ?

    I mean I hope you are right but, as I say, what is your expertise compared to his knowledge ?
    Show me some evidence we’re facing a sovereign debt crisis. Present some rationale based on standard macroeconomic theory. Where are the citations to the economic literature? All I’m seeing is “Labour bad”.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794
    DavidL said:

    I don't think it is inevitable but what is clear is that our margin of safety is being eroded. If something else were to occur that really spooked the market raising funds may rapidly become prohibitively expensive. Given recent history (Covid, Ukraine, gas prices, election of Trump etc etc) these are not risks that a government supposedly committed to stability should be taking. What we absolutely must not do is make the situation worse, as we did in the last budget.
    Nothing is inevitable, it needs for the government to cancel spending rises and immediately reduce borrowing. We have no more wiggle room and Labour are driving the nation to bankruptcy and an IMF bailout to keep external creditors happy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited January 8
    biggles said:

    Yup. Just had this for an elderly relative. If a house hasn’t sold since 199X it won’t be on the system so everything needs doing. And away from big cites there’s always random pockets of land and stuff that turn up.
    Exactly my position. They had to inspect the sketch map in the old deeds to see if it made sense on their maps, which fortunately it did. I had already noticed whoever had been the lawyer for the sale of the property next door had however screwed up and in a recent transaction left a plot of land "vacant", as I could tell from comparing sasine records and OS maps. But not my problem so I left it alone ...
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,200
    Dopermean said:

    2 years and counting since the forms were submitted to voluntarily register my parents' house and still nothing...
    Though no doubt considerably quicker to fraudulently claim and transfer ownership
    Reminds me of this chap, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-63392025
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    There are bits of Scotland that have never made it on to the Sasines Register which was established in 1617. Short of compulsory registration it is going to take a very, very long time for the Land Register to be complete.
    I was rereading the Krugg Syndrome the otyher day (originally acquired on your recommendation) ...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,406
    eek said:

    That depends I know a set of planners who love brutalist architecture - not so much adding new bits but keeping the rapidly reducing number that is left as is.

    I suspect Billingham town Centre will be an interesting argument this year - it’s classic 60s and still functional in ways that other examplessuch as Newton Aycliffe aren’t (Aycliffe town Centre is too big nowadays).

    There unquestionably some town centres where such building would be appropriate and indeed pleasing. Basildon is an example.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,200
    edited January 8

    Show me some evidence we’re facing a sovereign debt crisis. Present some rationale based on standard macroeconomic theory. Where are the citations to the economic literature? All I’m seeing is “Labour bad”.

    I said why should we take your word for it over Max. Something you have failed to answer.

    I am not offering an opinion either way because I do not know. But it is something I am interested in due to the impact, or potential impact, and I am retiring shortly.

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 623
    Taz said:

    Be interesting to see how public sector pay goes, Labours client vote, the sainted Nurses are already saying 2.8% is not enough.

    Labour set a precedent by rolling over and caving in without getting anything for it last year. You cannot blame the Public sector for trying the same again.,
    I may be a stuck record but wages have to go up - significantly.

    If you have nurses on in-work benefits or food banks, the taxpayer is paying indirectly through payments from the DWP or from grants from Local Authority Rates. Also it drives directly employed nurses to become agency nurses at much higher cost to the Trusts. Just have a look at the Annual Accounts of your local NHS Trust as to the amounts paid out in Agency fees. Yes the 'sainted' NHS is expensive but it could be less expensive if it were not a plaything of ignorant politicians pandering to their particular niche voters.

    If you think health costs, then try existing on the amounts paid out for those on ill-health.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,424

    NEW THREAD

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,406
    Taz said:

    Reminds me of this chap, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-63392025
    Has anyone any idea how those cases have turned out? Or are they still grinding on?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,735
    Carnyx said:

    Exactly my position. They had to inspect the sketch map in the old deeds to see if it made sense on their maps, which fortunately it did. I had already noticed whoever had been the lawyer for the sale of the property next door had however screwed up and in a recent transaction left a plot of land "vacant", as I could tell from comparing sasine records and OS maps. But not my problem so I left it alone ...
    I wonder if there’s a business model for a really focused solicitor with access to the right systems to buy up ransom strips nobody knew existed all over the country and make a mint when the local housing plan gets drawn up?

    I’ll invest…
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    Sandpit said:

    At a time when almost everyone involved in “international law” is now highly political and pushing a very specific anti-West agenda.

    Everyone is complaining about Elon Musk getting involved in international politics, albeit with a loud megaphone rather than with money and meetings behind the scenes at Davos, yet never mention the likes of Goerge Soros and Bill Gates getting involved in international politics.
    Possibly because they approach it from a philanthropic perspective rather than making absolute twats of themselves in a pathetic desire to say "look at me".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,794

    Show me some evidence we’re facing a sovereign debt crisis. Present some rationale based on standard macroeconomic theory. Where are the citations to the economic literature? All I’m seeing is “Labour bad”.
    It's my read of it after an 11 year career in the city starting as a Junior Investment Analyst and ending as VP of Analytics and Insight. I don't need macroeconomic theory or some paper written by zero real world experience professor to validate my opinions. People are free to agree or disagree with my opinions, you disagree which is fine, you appealing to authority to try and shut down conversations about it is less fine but very much in line with everything you've ever written here. As you may or may not remember, I made the same predictions when Liz Truss decided to go on a borrowing binge, I'm pretty sure I was right about that too.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,735

    Has anyone any idea how those cases have turned out? Or are they still grinding on?
    Jesus.

    "Where possible, we will restore ownership to the original owner, but in cases where the original owner was not living in the property at the time of the fraudulent sale (perhaps because they were renting it out), and an innocent party has purchased and then occupied the property in good faith, it is more likely we will allow the current occupier to continue to live in their new home and to offer financial compensation to the original owner”.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,200

    Has anyone any idea how those cases have turned out? Or are they still grinding on?
    Still grinding on over a year after it happened and the perp was arrested. Seems to be radio silence after that.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    Battlebus said:

    I may be a stuck record but wages have to go up - significantly.

    If you have nurses on in-work benefits or food banks, the taxpayer is paying indirectly through payments from the DWP or from grants from Local Authority Rates. Also it drives directly employed nurses to become agency nurses at much higher cost to the Trusts. Just have a look at the Annual Accounts of your local NHS Trust as to the amounts paid out in Agency fees. Yes the 'sainted' NHS is expensive but it could be less expensive if it were not a plaything of ignorant politicians pandering to their particular niche voters.

    If you think health costs, then try existing on the amounts paid out for those on ill-health.
    Nursing payrates are low when compared with doctors. Perhaps the media and politicians should kowtow less to the BMA and ask them why it is that doctors think they are so entitled to earn more than double what a nurse earns at a similar point in their respective careers? No-one seems to question this disparity or the medical profession's sense of entitlement, or that hefty compensation rises for doctors have to be at the expense of other clinical professionals.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    biggles said:

    I wonder if there’s a business model for a really focused solicitor with access to the right systems to buy up ransom strips nobody knew existed all over the country and make a mint when the local housing plan gets drawn up?

    I’ll invest…
    They'd need to do detailed comparisons of the blanks with the relevant entries in the sasine registers. A heroic job.

    I already knew aboiut the problem I had because there was some need for maintenance of the party boundary wall and did some DIY research to add to my family history styff. In the end I just paid a little extra for the other side to be quietly mended as well so it didn't fall down and cost a lot more ... but if I were moving into that house, I'd be looking at that much more actively and lawyered up.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,766
    Carnyx said:

    I said "Landowners whose land is used for farming". Not growing bloody chrysanthemums.
    I can see @Carnyx that you need some educating on this simple matter rather than simply swallowing the propaganda from Starmer et al.

    Here is an explanation that even people in the public sector might understand:

    Imagine you are the Principal of a Higher Education College. It isn't very well paid, but you get by, and you love the work even though it is often challenging. The buildings and the grounds are worth a lot of money, but you don't intend to sell them even though some of the governors would like you to. The HE college has been around for 100 years, but all of a sudden a new government comes in and says that whether the property that is used for the college is sold or otherwise, there will be a tax every time there is a change of the Principal.

    "But we don't have any spare cash" says the Principal
    "Sell some of the buildings" says the heartless minister. In fact sell 20% of them. You can afford it."
    "But then we will have to have 20% less students!"
    "Tough, just get on and sell. The college is rich enough in terms of assets"

    Now the college now has 20% less students. 20% less income and subsequently closes.

    This is the reality for a large number of family farms and family businesses. These businesses are asset rich but income poor. It is not difficult for a farm to have assets over 3M, anymore than it would be for an HE college.

    As @malcolmg said, if a farmer sells their assets and realises this value, then they would and should pay CGT, but not simply for continuing to farm it.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,312
    DavidL said:

    There are bits of Scotland that have never made it on to the Sasines Register which was established in 1617. Short of compulsory registration it is going to take a very, very long time for the Land Register to be complete.
    I don't see how it will ever be complete. Quite near me there is a small piece of land the owner of which is lost in the mists of time. A legal nightmare every time anyone needs to do anything. But there must be lots of pieces like that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,130
    Sandpit said:

    Don’t care if the ultimate power is in Brussels or Washington, so long as it isn’t in “Westminster”.
    Some quality Scotch Nat experting from the Brit Nats.

    I guess even the non Scottish “nationalist” might be questioning why the wise oversight of Westminster has resulted in an energy rich nation having highest power bills in the UK which in turn has the highest energy bills in Europe.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Pulpstar said:

    Wait, what the land registry has 4,000 staff o_O ?!
    For doing something that should be pretty much all automated at this point? Surely the whole of the UK is in some huge GIS database by now?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,008

    What passes for health insurance in the U.K. is nearly always a long, long way from US insurance.

    Bet yours doesn’t cover serious, long term hospital stays.
    Not aware of any limits on it, obviously there will be some but and any time used they have always paid up no issues
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,008
    Taz said:

    Here's one for @malcolmg

    Typical public sector entitlement.


    "Indefinite industrial action is to be taken by thousands of civil servants working at the Land Registry in a dispute over office attendance.

    Around 4,000 members of the Public and Commercial Services Union (PCS) based in 14 offices across England and Wales will take part in the action from 21 January.

    The PCS is also campaigning for a four-day week for workers at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government."


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/civil-servants-to-take-indefinite-industrial-action-after-being-ordered-back-to-office/ar-AA1xaSsL?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=71fbf6997a0841a2a7c49afa892c9406&ei=9

    @taz just what you expect when Labour in power, they expect it will be rubber stamped. What a joke they could sack them all and no-one would ever notice a difference.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,008
    Taz said:

    If people in local govt can do the same work in 80% of the time,as they claim, then cull 20% of the workforce or give them 4 day weeks and cut their wages proportionally.
    Public service is like Butlins
This discussion has been closed.