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Rebuild, copy or destroy – how should we deal with our cities’ history? – politicalbetting.com

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,083
    edited January 8
    Pulpstar said:

    I know it's not going to pass, but does the Tory amendment actually kill the bill off ? Or is it just that the Gov't would be unwilling to proceed with the bill as amended to force a new public enquiry ?
    As worded, it would not set up an enquiry, only stop the bill from passing. So she is actually right about that.

    It's an irrelevance, as it won't be adopted, but she's not lying.

    (If it did stand a chance of being adopted, I think it unlikely it would have been put forward. So it's posturing from both sides.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090
    Pulpstar said:

    Phillipson reckons the Tory amendment passing would kill her child/school bill "stone dead" - is that actually the case. Does the Conservative amendment actually contain an effective kill clause in it, or is it just that Labour would be unwilling to proceed with the bill as amended by that particular amendment ?

    It's academic. No Conservative amendments are going to pass in this Parliament unless the government already want to accept them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084
    ydoethur said:

    As worded, it would not set up an enquiry, only stop the bill from passing. So she is actually right about that.

    It's an irrelevance, as it won't be adopted, but she's not actually lying.
    Thank you :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,414
    edited January 8
    The discussion about grooming story is off limits. If people are unable to adhere to this and then I will have to consider my future on PB.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,222
    TimS said:

    Oh in that case I'm just engaging in gentle banter too. That seems to be the forum get out of jail card. If arguing that invading Greenland would be showing the spirit of enterprise = gentle banter, then anything anyone says is clearly also gentle banter.
    Surely, everything Trump says is jut for the laddy bantz?

    We aren't make to take it...seriously?

    I'd be more inclined to take it seriously if he said he and Musk have claimed Mars as the 51st state. And Musk is going to personally plant the flag...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    TimS said:

    Oh in that case I'm just engaging in gentle banter too. That seems to be the forum get out of jail card. If arguing that invading Greenland would be showing the spirit of enterprise = gentle banter, then anything anyone says is clearly also gentle banter.
    I was objecting to being lumped in the MAGA or Trump defending world for banter re lack of precedent over Canada/Panama - I generally find it annoying however that anyone who says anything tends to get “othered” here recently and lumped into derogatory groups - it’s what made the site so unbearable over the weekend and doesn’t achieve anything good - you are usually nuanced and so surprised by your comment.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,195
    edited January 8

    My sister had an odd experience with planning. Had an extension designed including a half hipped roof. Planning officer said they couldn't have that style of roof as it was not in keeping with the area. This was utter bullshit as there are similar rooves within a few hundred yards of the house. Utterly weird, can only assume this guy didn't like them.
    But.
    He actually made suggestions about how to redesign the extension (effectively became a different project, extending from the kitchen rather than the lounge) that ended up working far better than the original plan would have.

    Weird.
    Planning Officers cannot be grouped and generalised.

    They have seen far more plans than most people, other than perhaps 25 year career architects. It's good that you had one who gave helpful input.

    They will often give views if asked in the right way. Also BCOs.

    It's far easier and smoother for them if something is compliant. Mistakes corrected or improvements made at thinking stage are far better than sorting out hassles once it is half-built.

    Most people start building projects from the inside out, whilst the place to start is plot / sun / views / orientation. Work in from there to outside-inside space, then windows and doors. Then start from the inside and meet at the walls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534

    Trump cannot make such a deal if Ukraine is willing to fight on. Europe needs to step up to fill the gap. Unfortunately, it seems even more in fear of Trump than of Putin.
    Ukraine will fight on regardless, Merz if he wins in Germany next month seems more willing to expand military aid to Ukraine than Scholz has been
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    Carnyx said:

    Landowners, not farmers, please.
    Most of those hit are farmers
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084

    The discussion about grooming story is off limits. If people are unable to adhere to this and then I will have to consider my future on PB.

    I can't see that it's been discussed on this thread ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693
    boulay said:

    I was objecting to being lumped in the MAGA or Trump defending world for banter re lack of precedent over Canada/Panama - I generally find it annoying however that anyone who says anything tends to get “othered” here recently and lumped into derogatory groups - it’s what made the site so unbearable over the weekend and doesn’t achieve anything good - you are usually nuanced and so surprised by your comment.
    I wasn’t referring to you, and apologies if that seemed to be the case. We have actual posters very obviously arguing that what Trump is proposing is reasonable.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,955

    The discussion about grooming story is off limits. If people are unable to adhere to this and then I will have to consider my future on PB.

    Don't go!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,414
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't see that it's been discussed on this thread ?
    It has, such as the amendment discussion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084
    The people of Greenland should be able to decide their own fate imo whether that's as currently part of the Kingdom of Denmark, independent or as a territory or state of the USA.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Sean_F said:

    Yes, "transactional" means tit for tat. If the other party fulfils their end of the deal, you fulfil yours. If they don't, you retaliate. It may entail very tough bargaining, with no great liking for each other, but the expectation is that each party is a good actor.

    Trump's approach is that every deal has a winner and a loser. And, if you can ratfuck the other party, so much the better, it's "just good business." And, people who display good faith and honour, are just "suckers and losers."
    Yes exactly. Thinks his approach to Manhattan real estate and reality tv scales up to the presidency of the US. It's naive.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,311


    I think we'll all chuckle if we hear Trump described as an 'isolationist' again. He's surely planning the greatest land conquests in US history.

    Very odd, especially since he seemed to be proud of his record of not engaging the US in wars.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084

    It has, such as the amendment discussion.
    OK I'll not discuss that any more as it's your and rcs site but blimy.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited January 8
    HYUFD said:

    Most of those hit are farmers
    But not the same thing. And a lot of farmers aren't hit. You're giving the impression of manipulating words to slant the argument.

    In any case - the taxes haven't begun. And any competent planning will sort much of the issue.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,092
    edited January 8
    Deleted
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,414
    Pulpstar said:

    OK I'll not discuss that any more as it's your and rcs site but blimy.
    The reality is even before the OSA some of the comments on this subject have the potential to get OGH into trouble, and I mentioned yesterday we had to remove over a dozen posts in a short space of time and that’s unprecedented for PB,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520

    The default option for Labour is to borrow more. Clearly that is going to be difficult to sell to the markets to put it mildly, but that is where their instinct lies. Obviously that holds a big risk of backfiring spectacularly.
    Spending cuts are more likely, imo, should it come to the crunch.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,092
    Pulpstar said:

    The people of Greenland should be able to decide their own fate imo whether that's as currently part of the Kingdom of Denmark, independent or as a territory or state of the USA.

    Canada makes more sense than USA.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Pulpstar said:

    Sunak & Hunt snuffed out the Truss/Kwarteng bondfire quickly enough. This situation seems altogether worse. There's no obvious will or desire to correct the obvious errors here by Labour and the general situation (For borrowing) has worsened globally since Truss in the long term.
    What are the obvious errors? You mean the employers NI mainly?
  • AnneJGP said:

    Very odd, especially since he seemed to be proud of his record of not engaging the US in wars.
    As I mentioned below, Musk's influence could be something to do.

    It's Musk who has the personal connection with Canada, as mentioned, and he who seems to have the greater thirst for pure acquisition rather than preening, vanity
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,914
    Very good by Ed Davey on social care
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,092
    I have deleted a post about the subject that is now off limits.

    Sorry @TheScreamingEagles
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084
    kinabalu said:

    What are the obvious errors? You mean the employers NI mainly?
    Yes, it should have been a general rise in income tax imo. Employers NI is inflationary because obvs (Particularly the way it's been done) firms will need to pass on those costs. They could have used the supposed black hole to tell everyone that they can't in fact stick to their manifesto.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,955

    The reality is even before the OSA some of the comments on this subject have the potential to get OGH into trouble, and I mentioned yesterday we had to remove over a dozen posts in a short space of time and that’s unprecedented for PB,
    I normally don't like banning people, but if you impose temporary bans on the deleted comments posters they will eventually "learn" by censoring themselves. It's not nice and I don't like it but you can't keep up the cadence of deleting individual posts, as you have to sleep sometimes
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,973
    edited January 8

    This is Starmers worst performance by far.

    [Deleted because I indirectly referenced THE THING]

    It would be great if people could be a bit more sensible with their posts because it's ruining PB for the rest of us.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,919
    On topic. Here is my idea -
    Every 5 years, local authorities should be allowed to hold an auction for the de-listing of 2% of their Grade II listed buildings.
    This would re-generate urban areas and provide an income stream to the councils independent of central government.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,008
    Pulpstar said:

    I can't see that it's been discussed on this thread ?
    It’s the number one political news story at the moment has its fingers in HoC business, votes, amendments, calls for sackings, Immigration policies, and how these now dramatically differ between the main parties. However, when has PB ever stuck to one topic or even politics? It should be easy for us to talk other things, till this latest fuckmule runs out of legs?

    Here’s a suggested list of conversations. Crazy weather in the US. Hong Kong police arresting HK democracy advocates in UK. Leon in China: has he been stitched up at the top levels of Secret State and will never be seen again? Rachelnomics: all pain out early in Parliament making re-election easy, or voters already lost and change of government 2029 already certain? Football. Cricket: Musk buying the hundred Franchise actually makes it better? Airports. Moths.

    Here’s moth of the day. I probably got it from this site in first place. It is lovely and amazing

    .


  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    kinabalu said:

    Spending cuts are more likely, imo, should it come to the crunch.
    Be interesting to see how public sector pay goes, Labours client vote, the sainted Nurses are already saying 2.8% is not enough.

    Labour set a precedent by rolling over and caving in without getting anything for it last year. You cannot blame the Public sector for trying the same again.,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    TimS said:

    Oh in that case I'm just engaging in gentle banter too. That seems to be the forum get out of jail card. If arguing that invading Greenland would be showing the spirit of enterprise = gentle banter, then anything anyone says is clearly also gentle banter.
    Hey I like this. So let it be known that I am always just gently bantering whenever I say ... well anything that people don't appreciate. Which does happen now and again.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    Pulpstar said:

    Can I report that article within the remit of the OSA ?

    The constant reference to a power unit for storage is triggering me tbh :/
    Coalburn 1 is 500MW/1GWh

    Coalburn 2 is the same again, and there's another project at Kincardine also the same.

    So in total you'd have 1.5GW/3GWh.

    That's a lot of batteries. Wonder where they will be imported from?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    Carnyx said:

    But not the same thing. And a lot of farmers aren't hit. You're giving the impression of manipulating words to slant the argument.

    In any case - the taxes haven't begun. And any competent planning will sort much of the issue.
    The average net worth across all farms was £2.2 million in 2022/23 and 49% of farms had a net worth of at least £1.5 million.

    So large numbers of farms will be hit planning or not

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england-202223-statistics-notice
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,432
    MattW said:

    Planning Officers cannot be grouped and generalised.

    They have seen far more plans than most people, other than perhaps 25 year career architects. It's good that you had one who gave helpful input.

    They will often give views if asked in the right way. Also BCOs.

    It's far easier and smoother for them if something is compliant. Mistakes corrected or improvements made at thinking stage are far better than sorting out hassles once it is half-built.

    Most people start building projects from the inside out, whilst the place to start is plot / sun / views / orientation. Work in from there to outside-inside space, then windows and doors. Then start from the inside and meet at the walls.
    That's all fine, but why should the planning officer be able to object to something when the reasons given are demonstrably factually incorrect? Its maddening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534

    On topic. Here is my idea -
    Every 5 years, local authorities should be allowed to hold an auction for the de-listing of 2% of their Grade II listed buildings.
    This would re-generate urban areas and provide an income stream to the councils independent of central government.

    Yet would not be worth it if it led to historic buildings being knocked down or altered beyond recognition
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,084

    Coalburn 1 is 500MW/1GWh

    Coalburn 2 is the same again, and there's another project at Kincardine also the same.

    So in total you'd have 1.5GW/3GWh.

    That's a lot of batteries. Wonder where they will be imported from?
    中国
    Zhōngguó
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    The average net worth across all farms was £2.2 million in 2022/23 and 49% of farms had a net worth of at least £1.5 million.

    So large numbers of farms will be hit planning or not

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england/balance-sheet-analysis-and-farming-performance-england-202223-statistics-notice
    B ut that is still not the same thing. Landowners, not farmers, is the key word.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    edited January 8
    Pulpstar said:

    Yes, it should have been a general rise in income tax imo. Employers NI is inflationary because obvs (Particularly the way it's been done) firms will need to pass on those costs. They could have used the supposed black hole to tell everyone that they can't in fact stick to their manifesto.
    I think they would have got away with it as well (Without coming over all Scooby Doo here) as it was early in their term and as others have said, if the economy is doing fine and things feel better in 4 years or so time then Labour will get back in.

    Sadly they have wasted that opportunity and we are in for a rocky time this year. Especially now the Trumpdozer soon to be in the Whitehouse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,045
    HYUFD said:

    Yet would not be worth it if it led to historic buildings being knocked down or altered beyond recognition
    Far too many buildings are grade 2 listed. This would improve housing availability without affecting genuinely important historic buildings.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Taz said:

    Be interesting to see how public sector pay goes, Labours client vote, the sainted Nurses are already saying 2.8% is not enough.

    Labour set a precedent by rolling over and caving in without getting anything for it last year. You cannot blame the Public sector for trying the same again.,
    I'll do a hostage to fortune. There'll be a settlement at modest numbers without more strikes.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,973
    rcs1000 said:

    Far too many buildings are grade 2 listed. This would improve housing availability without affecting genuinely important historic buildings.
    Follow Scotland's example. We have no Grade 2 listed buildings at all.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,135
    HYUFD said:

    Ukraine will fight on regardless, Merz if he wins in Germany next month seems more willing to expand military aid to Ukraine than Scholz has been
    Recent polling suggests that Zelenskyy has lost a lot of trust of the Ukrainian population. There's a suggestion that current manpower problems for the Ukrainian armed forces are less a result of an unwillingness to fight, but an unwillingness to fight under the current leadership.

    Ukraine's willingness to fight, and ability to remain united to fight effectively, are not inexhaustible.

    A lot of people, including myself, have criticised a ceasefire/peace deal on the current lines as an opportunity for Russia to rearm and have another go later, but it would also be an opportunity for Ukraine to do the same, and to do something Putin cannot do - rebuild trust in the political leadership of the country with a period of democratic politics as normal.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    kinabalu said:

    I'll do a hostage to fortune. There'll be a settlement at modest numbers without more strikes.
    I really hope you are right.

    You're not Rogerdamus or Leondamus so you may well be right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902

    Some of it nonsensical - one explanation is that some Chinese companies are following the scams like ARCA, with a CGI dressing on top.
    Here's one for you.
    Did you see the footage of the MRBM test interception, where they dropped it from a C-17 to air launch ?
    https://x.com/heatloss1986/status/1876922894292242574
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,092

    Ed Conway
    @EdConwaySky
    ·
    2h
    Still plenty of appetite for UK debt among investors. Today's auction - £4.25bn of 5 year govt debt - was covered three times (eg three bids for each available bond).
    Perhaps that's to be expected with interest rates of 4.49%(!)

    https://x.com/EdConwaySky
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,275
    Pulpstar said:

    Yes, it should have been a general rise in income tax imo. Employers NI is inflationary because obvs (Particularly the way it's been done) firms will need to pass on those costs. They could have used the supposed black hole to tell everyone that they can't in fact stick to their manifesto.
    Income tax would have been fairer as it taxes different income sources too.

    What I think might prove to be Reeves’ fatal error was her ridiculous quote that she wouldn’t be raising any more taxes at the CBI though. She didn’t have to say that, and I wonder if that was run past Labours media team first (if it was they deserve all the flak they are getting at the moment). This was after the US election when the government must have known there were chances for future economic shocks, leaving aside all the budget fallout. Simply mind-boggling.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    edited January 8
    Carnyx said:

    B ut that is still not the same thing. Landowners, not farmers, is the key word.
    No it isn't as it is agricultural property relief being removed over £1 million it is not specifically an extra tax on landowners otherwise it would hit all owner occupiers in the UK
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    rcs1000 said:

    Far too many buildings are grade 2 listed. This would improve housing availability without affecting genuinely important historic buildings.
    You could also build in a council veto in order to safeguard important buildings - but a limited number only, so they'd have to be used sparingly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    Eabhal said:

    Follow Scotland's example. We have no Grade 2 listed buildings at all.
    Scotland has Category C buildings which are similar

    https://www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/info/200216/conservation_areas/96/listed_building_consent/3
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902

    Coalburn 1 is 500MW/1GWh

    Coalburn 2 is the same again, and there's another project at Kincardine also the same.

    So in total you'd have 1.5GW/3GWh.

    That's a lot of batteries. Wonder where they will be imported from?
    The US just blacklisted CATL.
    https://www.ft.com/content/3ed51022-9d22-407a-a965-27a6d3b25582

    While that's not yet sanctioning them, that could be on the cards, so any deals need to be done quickly.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,934
    Taz said:

    Be interesting to see how public sector pay goes, Labours client vote, the sainted Nurses are already saying 2.8% is not enough.

    Labour set a precedent by rolling over and caving in without getting anything for it last year. You cannot blame the Public sector for trying the same again.,
    Were the calling off of the several years long NHS strikes not a quid pro quo?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    edited January 8
    Taz said:

    I really hope you are right.

    You're not Rogerdamus or Leondamus so you may well be right.
    "kinabaludamus" doesn't roll too well tbf.

    But anyway, yes. Let's see. It can join "Trump2" and "impact of the OSB" in that bucket.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    edited January 8


    Ed Conway
    @EdConwaySky
    ·
    2h
    Still plenty of appetite for UK debt among investors. Today's auction - £4.25bn of 5 year govt debt - was covered three times (eg three bids for each available bond).
    Perhaps that's to be expected with interest rates of 4.49%(!)

    https://x.com/EdConwaySky

    US 10 year back above 4.7% this morning.

    The US has alot of debt maturing in 2025 of which over half is in the first 3 months.

    Stormy weather ahead ?

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,919
    HYUFD said:

    Yet would not be worth it if it led to historic buildings being knocked down or altered beyond recognition
    The historically worthwhile buildings are Grade I.
    I am thinking more of the current ludicrous cases where developers can basically build a new building, but have to keep the current facade.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    kinabalu said:

    "kinabaludamus" doesn't roll too well tbf.

    Clearly it does not trip off the tongue, that is for sure.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    edited January 8

    She is turning into Labour's very own slow-burn Liz Truss.
    There's a big difference, though.
    In Truss's case, there was an expectation, rapidly fulfilled, that the policy would be dumped by the Tories (along with her, as it turned out). I don't think the markets have any such expectation of Reeves and/or Labour ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693
    Taz said:

    US 10 year back above 4.7% this morning.

    The US has alot of debt maturing in 2025 of which over half is in the first 3 months.

    Stormy weather ahead ?

    The incoming administration's tax plans - essentially rolling forward almost all of the TCJA cuts and adding in a few new ones while maintaining or increasing spending - herald a stepchange even over the massive deficit rises in both the 2016-2020 and 2020-2024 terms. The US does have the benefit of stronger GDP growth and a reserve currency to shield itself, but even so. Their deficit numbers make the UK look like the picture of fiscal rectitude.

    To be fair, most of the G7's deficit numbers make the UK like the picture of fiscal rectitude, with the exception of that permanent picture of fiscal constipation Germany.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    Taz said:

    Clearly it does not trip off the tongue, that is for sure.
    If it should be needed, we could always go with 'kinabaloney'.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,003

    So Trumpian ownership is preferable to English ownership. I thought you were an advocate of independence rather than "a new boss who is the same as the old boss".
    Independence would be best option, but being 51st state would be better than being in UK in my humble opinion.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,138
    "Austria's president Alexander Van der Bellen has tasked the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, Herbert Kickl, with forming a coalition government. If the talks are successful, Austria will, for the first time, have a government led by the Eurosceptic, Russia-friendly Freedom Party (FPO). The FPO has been in power before, but only as a junior coalition partner. The party came first in September's elections, with roughly 29% of the vote, but was then sidelined."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clykjz8kk9xo
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,003
    Sandpit said:

    Ha yes, Tesla is likely to get eaten by the Chinese to some extent in the next few years, SpaceX is a decade ahead of everyone else, and Western governments and companies are never giving anything sensitive to the Chinese any time soon.
    They steal it all or buy it under the counter regardless
  • malcolmg said:

    Independence would be best option, but being 51st state would be better than being in UK in my humble opinion.
    Interesting. I thought you would be more pro-european than u.s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    edited January 8
    malcolmg said:

    Independence would be best option, but being 51st state would be better than being in UK in my humble opinion.
    If Scottish Nationalists proposed leaving a Starmer led UK to become the 51st state of a Trump led USA that would be the surefire way to guarantee a unionist landslide in any indyref2.

    Alba might prefer that, the SNP wouldn't for that very reason
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,973
    HYUFD said:

    Scotland has Category C buildings which are similar

    https://www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/info/200216/conservation_areas/96/listed_building_consent/3
    Heh, knew you'd bite on that one.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    HYUFD said:

    No it isn't as it is agricultural property relief being removed over £1 million it is not specifically an extra tax on landowners otherwise it would hit all owner occupiers in the UK
    Landowners whose land is used for farming, sure.

    But it beginds with Landowners. Not Farmers. Farmers do not necessarily own their land, and that's what counts.

    We're not brain dead on PB and it's an insult to all of us to have jejune propaganda on here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902

    FFS. We're going to be paying Mauritius £8.9B in exchange for giving them land that they never owned in the first place, over a thousand miles away from them.

    Crazy. Batshit crazy. No confidence that this government can do anything except f**k up.

    I misread that as £8.98.
    Seems reasonable.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693
    edited January 8
    Look at the G7's debt projections for the next 5 years:

    https://newdiplomatng.com/government-debt-projections/


    Country Gov’t gross debt 2024
    (Share of GDP) Gov’t gross debt 2029F
    (Share of GDP) Change
    🇯🇵 Japan 254.6% 251.7% -2.9 pp
    🇮🇹 Italy 139.2% 144.9% +5.7 pp
    🇺🇸 U.S. 123.3% 133.9% +10.6 pp
    🇫🇷 France 111.6% 115.2% +3.6 pp
    🇨🇦 Canada 104.7% 95.4% -9.3 pp
    🇬🇧 UK 104.3% 110.1% +5.8 pp
    🇩🇪 Germany 63.7% 57.7% -6.0 pp

    Ours is growing, though from a relatively lower base and nowhere near as quickly as the US. Germany is a mad outlier with enough dry powder to engineer an economic boom and still have a healthy balance sheet.

    But look also at Canada. Look too at Canada's GDP performance and projections. https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-growth

    Yet Trudeau has just stepped down because his government is so unpopular.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693

    Interesting. I thought you would be more pro-european than u.s.
    I assume our Malc already has private health insurance.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Eabhal said:

    Heh, knew you'd bite on that one.
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24841647.reform-uk-will-split-pro-union-vote-help-snp-senior-tory-says/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=080125

    "REFORM UK’s entrance into Scottish politics will “split the pro-Union vote” and help the SNP stay in power, a senior Tory MSP has said.

    Murdo Fraser, the Scottish Conservative’s economy spokesperson, pointed to polling in recent weeks which has shown Nigel Farage’s party are likely to emerge with at least 10 MSPs from the Holyrood elections in around 16 months."

    *watches float bob in the water*

    Seriously, it's a slightly odd argument as splitting doesn't help the winner so much as in FPTP. What he really means is the Tories get fewer MSPs.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    TimS said:

    The incoming administration's tax plans - essentially rolling forward almost all of the TCJA cuts and adding in a few new ones while maintaining or increasing spending - herald a stepchange even over the massive deficit rises in both the 2016-2020 and 2020-2024 terms. The US does have the benefit of stronger GDP growth and a reserve currency to shield itself, but even so. Their deficit numbers make the UK look like the picture of fiscal rectitude.

    To be fair, most of the G7's deficit numbers make the UK like the picture of fiscal rectitude, with the exception of that permanent picture of fiscal constipation Germany.
    Rightly or wrongly, Trump largely got a pass for his extraordinary fiscal irresponsibility the first time around, because of Covid.

    That seems to have been extended to him this time around, up until the point where people have to get to grips with the reality of his actually taking office.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,003
    Taz said:

    I think they would have got away with it as well (Without coming over all Scooby Doo here) as it was early in their term and as others have said, if the economy is doing fine and things feel better in 4 years or so time then Labour will get back in.

    Sadly they have wasted that opportunity and we are in for a rocky time this year. Especially now the Trumpdozer soon to be in the Whitehouse.
    Yes and constant mention of blackhole and then doling out big pay rises and 22Bn to that clown Milliband rather negates the message. Will be free for all in public sector next pay round as well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295
    TimS said:

    A few of this morning's sub-threads:

    "let's play war games!"
    "space rockets!"
    "what model of Jag is that?"
    "they're reformulating Formula 1 tracks!"

    Though the usual decided lack of football chat, to be fair.
    Well, we could also talk about thing, but we're not allowed to talk about thing, so it devolves into tedious laddish banter, perforce

    Welcome to the future of PB
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,954

    FFS. We're going to be paying Mauritius £8.9B in exchange for giving them land that they never owned in the first place, over a thousand miles away from them.

    Crazy. Batshit crazy. No confidence that this government can do anything except f**k up.

    I thought Mauritius were seeking to renegotiate, after they realized Sir Keir had shafted them.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Nigelb said:

    If it should be needed, we could always go with 'kinabaloney'.
    Oh god no, that's quite good.

    I'm going to revert to "Nigel" for Farage in retaliation.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,003

    Interesting. I thought you would be more pro-european than u.s.
    Unfortunately us joining EU has never been mooted, it indeed would be the preferable option , independent and in EU. Best of all worlds. Prisoners are unable to choose though.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,147
    The first local by-election is tomorrow in North Devon. It is a Con defence but an Ind who was a close second last time is now standing as a Lib Dem.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295
    Terrifying footage from INSIDE a house of the Palisades fires in LA

    https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1876978952318619849
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24841647.reform-uk-will-split-pro-union-vote-help-snp-senior-tory-says/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=f140ec39d500193051a33e140c12bd95&date=080125

    "REFORM UK’s entrance into Scottish politics will “split the pro-Union vote” and help the SNP stay in power, a senior Tory MSP has said.

    Murdo Fraser, the Scottish Conservative’s economy spokesperson, pointed to polling in recent weeks which has shown Nigel Farage’s party are likely to emerge with at least 10 MSPs from the Holyrood elections in around 16 months."

    *watches float bob in the water*

    Seriously, it's a slightly odd argument as splitting doesn't help the winner so much as in FPTP. What he really means is the Tories get fewer MSPs.

    Indeed, Reform will get MSPs largely proportionate to voteshare unlike MPs under FPTP and their MSPs will vote down indyref2 as much as Tory MSPs would
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693
    Nigelb said:

    Rightly or wrongly, Trump largely got a pass for his extraordinary fiscal irresponsibility the first time around, because of Covid.

    That seems to have been extended to him this time around, up until the point where people have to get to grips with the reality of his actually taking office.
    It's an interesting test of global market appetite. The numbers are eye watering. Japan is able to fund its vast government debt because it borrows off its own savers. Americans don't save, so the US has to borrow internationally.

    My guess is that the party goes on, until and unless the US suffers a growth shock. Trade war could deliver that, as might actual war. Or a drift towards crony capitalism and greater regulatory uncertainty for investors (see his comments on wind farms), which is a risk this time round.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902

    The discussion about grooming story is off limits. If people are unable to adhere to this and then I will have to consider my future on PB.

    Have PMed you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    edited January 8
    kinabalu said:

    Oh god no, that's quite good.

    I'm going to revert to "Nigel" for Farage in retaliation.
    Bastard !
  • TimSTimS Posts: 14,693
    Leon said:

    Well, we could also talk about thing, but we're not allowed to talk about thing, so it devolves into tedious laddish banter, perforce

    Welcome to the future of PB
    To be fair Trump invading Panama and Greenland isn't remotely tedious, but it's certainly quite boy's-own.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    Carnyx said:

    Landowners whose land is used for farming, sure.

    But it beginds with Landowners. Not Farmers. Farmers do not necessarily own their land, and that's what counts.

    We're not brain dead on PB and it's an insult to all of us to have jejune propaganda on here.
    No it doesn't, as landowners include someone who owns a 2 bed property and garden in Stoke.

    This ending of agricultural property relief is primarily going to hit farmers
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,051
    TimS said:

    To be fair Trump invading Panama and Greenland isn't remotely tedious, but it's certainly quite boy's-own.
    And, of course, gentle banter.
  • Denmark is "open to dialogue" about Greenland, it says.

    Trump will love that, and Musk may push him on to taking a tougher line with Canada.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534
    edited January 8
    Andy_JS said:

    "Austria's president Alexander Van der Bellen has tasked the leader of the far-right Freedom Party, Herbert Kickl, with forming a coalition government. If the talks are successful, Austria will, for the first time, have a government led by the Eurosceptic, Russia-friendly Freedom Party (FPO). The FPO has been in power before, but only as a junior coalition partner. The party came first in September's elections, with roughly 29% of the vote, but was then sidelined."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clykjz8kk9xo

    Well the FPO did win the largest number of members of the Austrian Parliament and the centre right governing party has replaced its leader with a grouping more likely to deal with them
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,973
    edited January 8
    Leon said:

    Terrifying footage from INSIDE a house of the Palisades fires in LA

    https://x.com/MyLordBebo/status/1876978952318619849

    One thing you get told by climbers/hikers in Australia/California is that a wildfire can move at 15mph. Take the warnings seriously.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 451
    slade said:

    The first local by-election is tomorrow in North Devon. It is a Con defence but an Ind who was a close second last time is now standing as a Lib Dem.

    Conservative hold. LD gain. Reform gain. Independent gain. Could be any of them, without any local knowledge? Suspect it will be close.

    One it won't be, is a Labour gain. Nice rural area, so no candidate obviously. Wonder if we will see more of this in the coming months.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,534

    Denmark is "open to dialogue" about Greenland, it says.

    Trump will love that, and Musk may push him on to taking a tougher line with Canada.

    Just give Trump a big US military and naval base in Greenland if the Danes want to appease him
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,840
    viewcode said:

    That's what I meant by "slides" (sorry, wrong word?). You can't clean them nor take them down to clean them nor replace them (I think?). So if they get mouldy or dirty, you be stuck in a room with diagonal walls and mouldy things. Not good.
    I’ve taken mine down - daughter wanted different coloured ones. New design, maybe? All you need is a small screwdriver - which comes in the box with the blinds.

    They were quite cheap.

    If they are getting moldy, then you have a damp problem. Cleaning them is just dealing with a symptom, then.

    One advantage of air source heating - air conditioning that can run in reverse to heat - is that you get dehumidification for free, as part of the system.
  • HYUFD said:

    Just give Trump a big US military and naval base in Greenland if the Danes want to appease him
    They already have two bass there. Trump wants the lot.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,934

    Denmark is "open to dialogue" about Greenland, it says.

    Trump will love that, and Musk may push him on to taking a tougher line with Canada.

    A NATO country fighting the remainder of NATO (even if at just an academic level) would work well for Putin.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    edited January 8
    slade said:

    The first local by-election is tomorrow in North Devon. It is a Con defence but an Ind who was a close second last time is now standing as a Lib Dem.

    "Winning Here"

    What do you reckon. Is the Independent popular enough to seal the deal as a Lib Dem ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295

    Denmark is "open to dialogue" about Greenland, it says.

    Trump will love that, and Musk may push him on to taking a tougher line with Canada.

    What kind of dialogue are they open to??

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,934
    HYUFD said:

    Just give Trump a big US military and naval base in Greenland if the Danes want to appease him
    I don't believe that will be enough.
This discussion has been closed.