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PB Predictions Competition 2025 – politicalbetting.com

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  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,357

    Musk describes himself as ethnically English.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1373490182117224448
    His mother's maiden name is Haldeman - apparently Swiss-German. His ancestors seem to have come from the US, Canada and South Africa and as far as I can tell you have to go some way back to find an English-born one. He hasn't lived or studied here. He's welcome to take an interest in this country but he's not one of us (as I think is evident from the absurd histrionic style with which he conducts himself - Wooster's response to Spode comes to mind).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516

    Would you question why Biden was interested in Ireland? It seems natural for people of British descent to question what is becoming of the mother country.
    You're in for a challenging few years, William, trying to defend this stuff.

    I wonder when you'll snap.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,082

    I didn’t say that directly, you should read the post again.
    Read it and understand it, in the immortal words of that parish council video that briefly went viral :)
    Your point was very clear.

    And I thought you'd aspire to something higher than the refereeing of parish councils.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    His mother's maiden name is Haldeman - apparently Swiss-German. His ancestors seem to have come from the US, Canada and South Africa and as far as I can tell you have to go some way back to find an English-born one. He hasn't lived or studied here. He's welcome to take an interest in this country but he's not one of us (as I think is evident from the absurd histrionic style with which he conducts himself - Wooster's response to Spode comes to mind).
    I believe he identified as “British” South African, which would make sense. I agree that it’s strange though that he hasn’t seemed interested in the UK itself until very lately.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,093

    Oh that's ok then. Perhaps Alice Weidel should give a warning of her own to deter any further interference from French politicians.
    So you don't see the distinction. Your defences of Musk are getting increasingly absurd and illogical.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,933

    Not if you were Norman…
    Back then was the high point for Normans. Thereafter the long slow slide towards being common and rather ordinary, then after a brief burst of amusement faded away such that nowadays you hardly ever meet one.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    .
    Taz said:

    We’re not far from ‘Everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler’ on this.
    Who was it here who said the other day that if you disagree with him, that means you would have enabled child rape? The incoherent rage posting comes Musk supporters, not Musk critics.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,082

    .

    Who was it here who said the other day that if you disagree with him, that means you would have enabled child rape? The incoherent rage posting comes Musk supporters, not Musk critics.
    You specialise in ad-hominem against your political opponents, always seeking to contrive or fabricate a "gotcha" moment - even if you have to do so by lying or being fraudulent - which is why noone likes you.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517

    His mother's maiden name is Haldeman - apparently Swiss-German. His ancestors seem to have come from the US, Canada and South Africa and as far as I can tell you have to go some way back to find an English-born one. He hasn't lived or studied here. He's welcome to take an interest in this country but he's not one of us (as I think is evident from the absurd histrionic style with which he conducts himself - Wooster's response to Spode comes to mind).
    Some South Africans and Some Canadians (especially) would have considered themselves pretty close to English at that time.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    Taz said:

    I didn’t say we were there yet.

    However labelling mainstream politics/politicians as Far Right or Fascist I find absurd and it is a step away from that.
    Are you OK with labelling Tommy Robinson as far right?

    Because then what do you call someone who supports him?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,377

    So you don't see the distinction. Your defences of Musk are getting increasingly absurd and illogical.
    "Must be the booze!"
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,410

    His mother's maiden name is Haldeman - apparently Swiss-German. His ancestors seem to have come from the US, Canada and South Africa and as far as I can tell you have to go some way back to find an English-born one. He hasn't lived or studied here. He's welcome to take an interest in this country but he's not one of us (as I think is evident from the absurd histrionic style with which he conducts himself - Wooster's response to Spode comes to mind).
    Joe Biden is a lot more English but seems to actively loathe Britain and identify purely as an Irish American. Hey Ho.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,906
    Cookie said:

    The - Normans?
    The Normans were the biggest disaster to hit the people of the British Isles since the Romans!
    The Normans were Vikings in smart suits. (Norman is a variation of Northman).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516
    Taz said:

    His support of Tommy Robinson is, I suspect, due to lack of knowledge of the man and his incarceration cause rather than support of him. He possibly takes things at face value.

    I think he is a free speech absolutist, small govt, conservative. To an outsider to the U.K. the grooming gangs story would seem crazy. The story, to me, is more the establishment cover ups/reluctance to act as many of the perpetrators were punished.

    I think there’s an element of playing to his base, he’s also a bit of a troll. If I was a major shareholder in Tesla or one of his other companies I’d be into him saying ‘what the fuck are you playing at ?, focus on the business’ his comments cannot help his businesses in mature and still relatively prosperous markets like Germany and the U.K.

    In U.K. terms I see him on the right of the Tory Party.

    His pro migration stance is certainly not far right, for example.
    "Only the AfD can save Germany"

    Have a bash at that one?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,093

    I believe he identified as “British” South African, which would make sense. I agree that it’s strange though that he hasn’t seemed interested in the UK itself until very lately.
    Well, yes. He's shown very little interest in the UK< and hasn't invested in us much. My guess is that he wants to identify as 'English' as being an Afrikaner can be problematic.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    The Normans were Vikings in smart suits. (Norman is a variation of Northman).
    And lawyered up. Feudal law was one of their biggest weapons.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    Taz said:

    His support of Tommy Robinson is, I suspect, due to lack of knowledge of the man and his incarceration cause rather than support of him. He possibly takes things at face value.

    I think he is a free speech absolutist, small govt, conservative. To an outsider to the U.K. the grooming gangs story would seem crazy. The story, to me, is more the establishment cover ups/reluctance to act as many of the perpetrators were punished.

    I think there’s an element of playing to his base, he’s also a bit of a troll. If I was a major shareholder in Tesla or one of his other companies I’d be into him saying ‘what the fuck are you playing at ?, focus on the business’ his comments cannot help his businesses in mature and still relatively prosperous markets like Germany and the U.K.

    In U.K. terms I see him on the right of the Tory Party.

    His pro migration stance is certainly not far right, for example.

    He supports Tommy Robinson, but you dismiss that as a misunderstanding.

    OK, but he also supports the AfD.

    And he’s liked/retweeted/praised multiple antisemitic tweets, and restored Twitter accounts for lots of far right accounts.

    At what point do we have enough evidence that he’s far right himself?

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328

    You specialise in ad-hominem against your political opponents, always seeking to contrive or fabricate a "gotcha" moment - even if you have to do so by lying or being fraudulent - which is why noone likes you.
    How have I lied or been fraudulent in the above?

    How did I engineer a gotcha moment in this case? @MaxPB launched an unprovoked attack at me.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516

    Starmer is absolutely going to sell the nation out to the EU, and well the EU knows it.

    It's one of my most certain predictions for this year and next.
    You don't want to open up with Europe. You don't want to do much with China. But you do want to prioritise growth. Is that fair?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,357

    I believe he identified as “British” South African, which would make sense. I agree that it’s strange though that he hasn’t seemed interested in the UK itself until very lately.
    He can come here and pay his taxes to the Crown and make himself eligible to fight for his Majesty's armed forces, or he can snipe from a foreign shore and we can pay as little attention to his histrionics as we would to any other wealthy foreigner who knows nothing of this country and has his own interests and agenda. He's not English, and he is a dick.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    Carnyx said:

    And lawyered up. Feudal law was one of their biggest weapons.
    They also abolished slavery in England. Give them some props for that.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,811

    It's one of this great 'what if's' isn't it! What if William the Bastard had lost at Hastings and been driven back into the sea.
    Secondly, of course, if he'd lived, would he have tried again?

    But if the Norman Conquest hadn't happened, then England would have been more like the Scandinavian countries.
    In the short term, perhaps, but economic geography would have tipped England towards Norman France in any event. David Mitchell was musing on this iirc. (The comedian's lockdown book being a history of mediaeval kings.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,093

    "Must be the booze!"
    Heh. I'm trying for a dry year.

    I did five dry months last year, and felt much better during most of them. I potentially have a rather stretch exercise goal this year, and am carefully looking after my diet.

    So I'm starting off with dry January, and seeing how long I get without drinking. I'm also trying to cut out crisps, biscuits, and Red Bull.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,378
    kinabalu said:

    You don't want to open up with Europe. You don't want to do much with China. But you do want to prioritise growth. Is that fair?
    They want us to be a client state of the US.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    “Inside Carlton Club bash where guests laugh at Hitler jokes and sing ‘we’re all racist now’”

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/inside-carlton-club-bash-where-guests-laugh-at-hitler-jokes-and-sing-were-all-racist-now-387819/

    With video!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    They also abolished slavery in England. Give them some props for that.
    But made everyone pretty much the serf ...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516

    How have I lied or been fraudulent in the above?

    How did I engineer a gotcha moment in this case? @MaxPB launched an unprovoked attack at me.
    "Nobody likes you"

    Here at St PB primary school 🙂
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,377

    Heh. I'm trying for a dry year.

    I did five dry months last year, and felt much better during most of them. I potentially have a rather stretch exercise goal this year, and am carefully looking after my diet.

    So I'm starting off with dry January, and seeing how long I get without drinking. I'm also trying to cut out crisps, biscuits, and Red Bull.
    I was actually referring to WilliamGlenn!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    Carnyx said:

    But made everyone pretty much the serf ...
    Reduced inequality is I think what you meant to say.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,390

    Joe Biden is a lot more English but seems to actively loathe Britain and identify purely as an Irish American. Hey Ho.
    True. And in that light Musk is actually doing no worse than the US Irish-Americans have done for decades.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    He supports Tommy Robinson, but you dismiss that as a misunderstanding.

    OK, but he also supports the AfD.

    And he’s liked/retweeted/praised multiple antisemitic tweets, and restored Twitter accounts for lots of far right accounts.

    At what point do we have enough evidence that he’s far right himself?

    Was Alexey Navalny far right?

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism

    Navalny recorded two videos to introduce their new movement; they were his début on YouTube. One was a forty-second argument for gun rights. The other, a minute long, featured Navalny dressed as a dentist, presenting a slightly confusing parable that likened interethnic conflict in Russia to cavities and argued that fascism can be prevented only by deporting migrants from Russia. Navalny closed his monologue with “We have a right to be [ethnic] Russians in Russia. And we will defend this right.”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328

    Was Alexey Navalny far right?

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism

    Navalny recorded two videos to introduce their new movement; they were his début on YouTube. One was a forty-second argument for gun rights. The other, a minute long, featured Navalny dressed as a dentist, presenting a slightly confusing parable that likened interethnic conflict in Russia to cavities and argued that fascism can be prevented only by deporting migrants from Russia. Navalny closed his monologue with “We have a right to be [ethnic] Russians in Russia. And we will defend this right.”
    My new year’s resolution is to ignore williamglenn’s pointless whataboutery questions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    .

    Who was it here who said the other day that if you disagree with him, that means you would have enabled child rape? The incoherent rage posting comes Musk supporters, not Musk critics.
    I never saw that post nor made that comment so cannot say.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    How have I lied or been fraudulent in the above?

    How did I engineer a gotcha moment in this case? @MaxPB launched an unprovoked attack at me.
    An attack I thought most unwarranted.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787

    Well, yes. He's shown very little interest in the UK< and hasn't invested in us much. My guess is that he wants to identify as 'English' as being an Afrikaner can be problematic.
    The Musk family identified as “English” South African, rather than “Afrikaner”.

    They are fairly culturally distinct, in South Africa.

    Though, as is usual, there was heritage from all over the place in the family tree.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,390
    kinabalu said:

    "Nobody likes you"

    Here at St PB primary school 🙂
    You get an 'I like you' from me @kinabalu. Don't let it go to your head.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516

    They want us to be a client state of the US.
    Donald Trump would no doubt like that too.

    A rather sad prospect for this flawed but fabulous old country of ours imo.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    He supports Tommy Robinson, but you dismiss that as a misunderstanding.

    OK, but he also supports the AfD.

    And he’s liked/retweeted/praised multiple antisemitic tweets, and restored Twitter accounts for lots of far right accounts.

    At what point do we have enough evidence that he’s far right himself?

    He restored, or to be precise Twitter restored, accounts as he’s a free speech absolutist. It is hardly a personal endorsement of them.

    He supports Robinson only in the sense he believes he is unjustly incarcerated. That is the misunderstanding?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    My new year’s resolution is to ignore williamglenn’s pointless whataboutery questions.
    My point is that viewed from the US perspective, the details don't matter that much and they will happily promote political dissidents in ideologically hostile states regardless of their background.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Omnium said:

    You get an 'I like you' from me @kinabalu. Don't let it go to your head.
    Kinabulu, someone might even give you a Love Heart sweetie.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,093
    Taz said:

    He restored, or to be precise Twitter restored, accounts as he’s a free speech absolutist. It is hardly a personal endorsement of them.

    He supports Robinson only in the sense he believes he is unjustly incarcerated. That is the misunderstanding?
    He isn't a free speech absolutist. He closes off accounts he doesn't like.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    Are you OK with labelling Tommy Robinson as far right?

    Because then what do you call someone who supports him?
    He’s supporting a man he believes is unjustly incarcerated.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,390
    Carnyx said:

    Kinabulu, someone might even give you a Love Heart sweetie.
    I like you too @Carnyx - just agressively less so :)
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,992

    One of my grandsons is off next month.
    I am sorry I did not stay in USA many years ago, had a great lifestyle there.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,357

    Joe Biden is a lot more English but seems to actively loathe Britain and identify purely as an Irish American. Hey Ho.
    Yes it's almost as if blood and soil nationalism is nonsense. At the end of the day, who your grandparents were is pretty much irrelevant, especially as in many cases we may not even have an accurate understanding of that in any case. Who you are is determined by where you grow up, who you live beside, the books you read, the community you belong to.
    Musk has no meaningful connection to this country, beyond one he imagines on the basis of a subset of his assumed ancestry.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,940
    rcs1000 said:

    Let's leave aside Europe for a moment.

    The US is a massively more regulated business environment than the UK. And I don't mean slightly, I mean massively.

    Let me give you an example of a very small business, where I have a very small economic interest. It's a nail salon in San Antonio, which does some other beauty treatments (not including botox).

    It required multiple permits including a state cosmetology license through the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation (TDLR), a general business permit, and a county-specific health department certifications.

    This was before it was even able to open. And that was just licenses.

    By contrast, in the UK, you open a shop.

    And everyone who works at the salon requires individual licensing to work as a nail technician. You can't simply have someone fill in.

    Finally, the IRS add another massive layer of complexity compared to the UK, with mandatory quarterly employment tax filings (Form 941), annual returns, and detailed documentation for worker classification. And did I mention compliance with OSHA and state standards requires extensive documentation regarding chemical storage, ventilation systems, and safety protocols.

    Oh yes, did I forget that the whole process of creating a corporate entity, and legal minimum insurance requirements (which are another scam, by the way), add another layer of complexity compared to the UK.

    If we've decided that the US works relative to the UK, and regulation is the reason, then holy shit, we need a lot more regulation.

    In the UK, you open a shop.
    Is the US reputation on white collar crime a perception, or based on reality? That's another thing I've always assumed about the UK - we don't have the resources to investigate in the same way the feds do.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,093

    Musk Derangement Syndrome strikes again.
    Yes, you are deranged about Musk. One of those weird nerds who would be willing to die on a mountain for him.

    Although thinking about it, that's not fair. You're not knowledgeable enough to be a nerd.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,410
    edited January 4
    Omnium said:

    True. And in that light Musk is actually doing no worse than the US Irish-Americans have done for decades.

    Musk and Trump's 'interference' is no more than US politicians have done for many decades. Usually their influence has been behind the scenes, occasionally it becomes public, such as Obama's 'back of the queue' and Biden's public snarling about Truss's budget. It hasn't needed to be more public than that, because mostly Presidents can just get on the phone and get things changed.

    I have condemned such casual American interference (well, more our supplication than their interference) for years, to a chorus of precisely zero support from PB's centrist commentariat. Yet suddenly with Trump and Musk doing some Tweets this has become an issue of overriding importance.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425

    Yes, you are deranged about Musk. One of those weird nerds who would be willing to die on a mountain for him.

    Although thinking about it, that's not fair. You're not knowledgeable enough to be a nerd.
    Ok. ;)
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116
    Omnium said:

    True. And in that light Musk is actually doing no worse than the US Irish-Americans have done for decades.

    Well his shitposting is not as bad as actually funding the IRA as some in the US did. The same organisation which bombed on the mainland and killed MPs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,940
    Taz said:

    He restored, or to be precise Twitter restored, accounts as he’s a free speech absolutist. It is hardly a personal endorsement of them.

    He supports Robinson only in the sense he believes he is unjustly incarcerated. That is the misunderstanding?
    And suspended the Sandford Police account when they threatened to arrest him.

    The Greater Good
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,992
    Taz said:

    I’m well aware of that and I don’t doubt his knowledge.

    However there is no need to be such a condescending asshole when making that point, is there ?

    Berating me for not seeing posts on PB previously about it. 🤷‍♂️
    He was a smug git for sure.
  • I like you @bondegezou. You are one of the best posters on this board, even if we don't always agree.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516
    edited January 4

    He isn't a free speech absolutist. He closes off accounts he doesn't like.
    He certainly did a ton of censorship during the US election campaign.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    edited January 4
    Eabhal said:

    Is the US reputation on white collar crime a perception, or based on reality? That's another thing I've always assumed about the UK - we don't have the resources to investigate in the same way the feds do.
    For the US, it depends on which bit of the US you are in and what you are doing. For example, if you’re are in Louisiana and doing real estate development, you are nearly certainly working with organised crime. These days, in New York, you aren’t.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,992

    Is @DougSeal banned? He was one of the best posters, I hope he will be allowed back.

    Why am I not surprised
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116
    kinabalu said:

    "Only the AfD can save Germany"

    Have a bash at that one?
    I know little of the AFD aside from them being a major party in Germany and on the right. I don’t know their policy positions so would have to invest time on that. what was the context ?
  • As I said before, Musk convinced me himself to pull out of Tesla. Because he's clearly too much of a loose cannon/hates his own customers/is distracted, to not accidentally run the company into the ground.

    As well as self-driving being as far away as ever (despite his lies that it's coming every year since 2012), I just can't see how Tesla isn't easily replaced by any of the Chinese companies or another established manufacturer.

    I put my money where my mouth is and sold up.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328

    I like you @bondegezou. You are one of the best posters on this board, even if we don't always agree.

    That’s very nice of you to say so.

    And you are my favourite horse in the whole world.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787
    malcolmg said:

    Why am I not surprised
    @DougSeal isn’t banned, and has never been banned, IIRC
  • That’s very nice of you to say so.

    And you are my favourite horse in the whole world.
    *Neighs with happiness*
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    *Neighs with happiness*
    Bleughhh
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116
    Eabhal said:

    And suspended the Sandford Police account when they threatened to arrest him.

    The Greater Good
    They’re still there and have been active all day.

    https://x.com/sandford_police/status/1875584887866192096?s=61

    How do you know he did it personally, if indeed it actually happened, and if it did it was anything other than a joke ?
  • Eabhal said:

    And suspended the Sandford Police account when they threatened to arrest him.

    The Greater Good
    As a so-called English person, he clearly has no idea about our culture.

    No luck catching them parody accounts then?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,992

    @DougSeal isn’t banned, and has never been banned, IIRC
    He was supposedly buggering off to USA where his wife came from.
  • @JosiasJessop my post seemed to get lost, I wasn't suggesting you were supporting Musk interfering in our democracy, just that some Tories would pipe up if Musk were supporting Labour.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    As I said before, Musk convinced me himself to pull out of Tesla. Because he's clearly too much of a loose cannon/hates his own customers/is distracted, to not accidentally run the company into the ground.

    As well as self-driving being as far away as ever (despite his lies that it's coming every year since 2012), I just can't see how Tesla isn't easily replaced by any of the Chinese companies or another established manufacturer.

    I put my money where my mouth is and sold up.

    The only way it doesn’t happen is through punitive tariffs

    Your post is what would concern me about Musk shitposting. The impact on his business. As I said earlier. Concentrate on running your business. Not winding up people.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516
    rkrkrk said:

    On Musk - I think Paul Krugman hits the nail on the head.
    "In the academic world there’s a familiar phenomenon sometimes called “great man’s disease,” in which a successful researcher in one field assumes that he (it’s usually a “he”) is so much smarter than experts in other fields that he doesn’t need to pay attention to their research. Physicists make confident, deeply ignorant pronouncements about economics; economists make confident, deeply ignorant pronouncements about sociology"

    He's cleaely a phenomenally successful businessman. But sadly very ignorant about many other things.

    There's a youtube video of David Starkey on where the Chancellor of the Exchequer is going wrong apparently.
  • Taz said:

    They’re still there and have been active all day.

    https://x.com/sandford_police/status/1875584887866192096?s=61

    How do you know he did it personally, if indeed it actually happened, and if it did it was anything other than a joke ?
    https://x.com/Sandford_Police/status/1875589313016295462

    We got restricted overnight and had to change the name. Currently awaiting review to get the tick back

    I would love to say Musk isn't personally up late restricting accounts but he seems to Tweet to hundreds of random accounts a day so he clearly has a lot of free time on his hands.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328
    Taz said:

    I know little of the AFD aside from them being a major party in Germany and on the right. I don’t know their policy positions so would have to invest time on that. what was the context ?
    Musk tweeted those words and followed up by writing a newspaper editorial praising the AfD.

    Here’s Wikipedia on how the AfD has been ruled to be a far right extremist party in Germany:

    “In March 2020, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (German: Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz) classified AfD's far-right nationalistic faction known as Der Flügel as "a right-wing extremist endeavor against the free democratic basic order" and as "not compatible with the Basic Law", placing it under government surveillance.[184][185][186] In early March 2021, most of Germany's major media outlets reported that the Bundesverfassungsschutz had placed the whole AfD under surveillance as a "suspected extremist group".[187][188] In response to claims from AfD members that the move was intended to damage the party's chances in the 2021 German federal election, the agency stated it would not make public announcements regarding investigations into the AfD or its candidates for the foreseeable future.[187][188] After the revelations, the surveillance was blocked by the courts to give equal opportunities among political parties in a key election year.[189][190][191] In 2022, it was ruled that the BfV may classify and monitor the entire party as a suspected right-wing extremist group. A corresponding lawsuit by the AfD was dismissed because "there were sufficient factual indications of anti-constitutional efforts within the AfD".[42] The dismissal was upheld in May 2024.[192] On 26 April 2023, the BfV, after four years of investigations into the Young Alternative for Germany, categorized that group as a confirmed extremist organisation. This allowed the chief of the BfV Thomas Haldenwang to place the youth wing under even more intensive surveillance than the tapping of phone and the use of undercover agents that had been the case until then.[193][194]”
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,410

    My new year’s resolution is to ignore williamglenn’s pointless whataboutery questions.
    An oddly hypocritical initiative.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847
    edited January 4
    kinabalu said:

    "Nobody likes you"

    Here at St PB primary school 🙂
    "St PB" sounds more like a very low rent prep school to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,082

    How have I lied or been fraudulent in the above?

    How did I engineer a gotcha moment in this case? @MaxPB launched an unprovoked attack at me.
    You regularly launch unprovoked attacks, and act in incredulous disbelief when people respond in kind.

    Do you have any self-awareness at all?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 30,847

    @JosiasJessop my post seemed to get lost, I wasn't suggesting you were supporting Musk interfering in our democracy, just that some Tories would pipe up if Musk were supporting Labour.

    I don't have much in common with Jessop, however on here he is laudably very anti-Trump and very anti -Musk. For this I salute him.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,357

    "St PB" sounds more like low rent prep school to me.
    That is certainly the PB vibe.
  • I wasn't against making Twitter more balanced but the problem is that it was clearly obvious that Elon's idea of "balance" was to turn a left-leaning echo chamber into a right-leaning one instead.

    As I have said many times, I've told it I don't want to see politics and yet I get served politics under every Tweet, including often Tweets from himself.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,082
    Taz said:

    Well his shitposting is not as bad as actually funding the IRA as some in the US did. The same organisation which bombed on the mainland and killed MPs.
    Biden's special envoy to Northern Ireland boasted of his good relations with the IRA.

    That's why a lot of this Musk stuff leaves me cold.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,516
    Taz said:

    I know little of the AFD aside from them being a major party in Germany and on the right. I don’t know their policy positions so would have to invest time on that. what was the context ?
    Ah OK. Strong neo nazi associations. They're fa ... no let's put it another way ... if the AfD are not far right we probably need to retire the term.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,670
    edited January 4

    I don't have much in common with Jessop, however on here he is laudably very anti-Trump and very anti -Musk. For this I salute him.
    I am sure we disagree politically on much but they're one of the few here who's been consistently anti Musk from the start. And that gives me hope that there are people with different politics to mine, that are prepared to put it aside to protect our democracy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425
    edited January 4

    Musk tweeted those words and followed up by writing a newspaper editorial praising the AfD.

    Here’s Wikipedia on how the AfD has been ruled to be a far right extremist party in Germany:

    “In March 2020, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (German: Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz) classified AfD's far-right nationalistic faction known as Der Flügel as "a right-wing extremist endeavor against the free democratic basic order" and as "not compatible with the Basic Law", placing it under government surveillance.[184][185][186] In early March 2021, most of Germany's major media outlets reported that the Bundesverfassungsschutz had placed the whole AfD under surveillance as a "suspected extremist group".[187][188] In response to claims from AfD members that the move was intended to damage the party's chances in the 2021 German federal election, the agency stated it would not make public announcements regarding investigations into the AfD or its candidates for the foreseeable future.[187][188] After the revelations, the surveillance was blocked by the courts to give equal opportunities among political parties in a key election year.[189][190][191] In 2022, it was ruled that the BfV may classify and monitor the entire party as a suspected right-wing extremist group. A corresponding lawsuit by the AfD was dismissed because "there were sufficient factual indications of anti-constitutional efforts within the AfD".[42] The dismissal was upheld in May 2024.[192] On 26 April 2023, the BfV, after four years of investigations into the Young Alternative for Germany, categorized that group as a confirmed extremist organisation. This allowed the chief of the BfV Thomas Haldenwang to place the youth wing under even more intensive surveillance than the tapping of phone and the use of undercover agents that had been the case until then.[193][194]”
    It sounds like the German authorities are on top of it. With that kind of ideological surveillance, what could go wrong?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,328

    You regularly launch unprovoked attacks, and act in incredulous disbelief when people respond in kind.

    Do you have any self-awareness at all?
    I am glad you agree that the comments MaxPB made were unprovoked and not a “gotcha” moment. Thank you for that rare moment of empathy from you.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,808

    As I said before, Musk convinced me himself to pull out of Tesla. Because he's clearly too much of a loose cannon/hates his own customers/is distracted, to not accidentally run the company into the ground.

    As well as self-driving being as far away as ever (despite his lies that it's coming every year since 2012), I just can't see how Tesla isn't easily replaced by any of the Chinese companies or another established manufacturer.

    I put my money where my mouth is and sold up.

    The fact that Musk appears to believe, and act on the belief, that there can and will be viable long term human communities living on Mars in not all that long suggests that he may well be less good at thinking through some things than others.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,082
    kinabalu said:

    You don't want to open up with Europe. You don't want to do much with China. But you do want to prioritise growth. Is that fair?
    I'm very happy to trade with Europe, and even China, but I don't think that should come at the expense of our political independence.

    For growth, the ones suffocating that are your lot.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 4,670
    edited January 4
    algarkirk said:

    The fact that Musk appears to believe, and act on the belief, that there can and will be viable long term human communities living on Mars in not all that long suggests that he may well be less good at thinking through some things than others.
    I'm one of those that believes he got very lucky in his career but he was at least good and picking winning horses/causes. Well, until Twitter.

    The folks at PayPal clearly saw what he was, it's why they chucked him out - and he's been holding a grudge ever since.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,260
    edited January 4
    HYUFD said:

    No she still wants to be Conservative leader some day but she has covered both bases and sent her husband to join Reform instead
    That ship has surely sailed. She couldn't even get the nominations to join the six who got to the starting line last year, and there are other much more serious alternatives on the right if Badenoch fails and the party is minded to stay firmly in the right lane.

    Her hesitancy is, I'd have thought, more to do with the question of whether she will win with RefUK. She has a plum Tory seat with a healthy majority of 6k even in a terrible election for her party. It should be a seat for life unless RefUK replace the Tories - which is possible but not probable at this stage. If she misjudged it, she'd be out on her ear at the next election, still aged under 50. I'm sure she'll continue to consider it, and may well jump, but it's obviously a big gamble.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,384
    malcolmg said:

    I am sorry I did not stay in USA many years ago, had a great lifestyle there.
    The only person who isn’t keen on this trip is his girlfriend!
  • As of our most recent figures (Nov), Elon Musk was unpopular with 64% of the British public - and 61% of those who said they used Twitter/X on a daily basis

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1875216884309873038
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,787

    "St PB" sounds more like a very low rent prep school to me.
    “We class schools, you see, into four grades: Leading School, First-rate School, Good School, and School. Frankly," said Mr Levy, "School is pretty bad...”
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517

    “Inside Carlton Club bash where guests laugh at Hitler jokes and sing ‘we’re all racist now’”

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/inside-carlton-club-bash-where-guests-laugh-at-hitler-jokes-and-sing-were-all-racist-now-387819/

    With video!

    Oh dear. Some people at Uni tried to recuit me into the Carlton. I got the impression it wasn't massively exclusive as London clubs go.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,573

    It's one of this great 'what if's' isn't it! What if William the Bastard had lost at Hastings and been driven back into the sea.
    Secondly, of course, if he'd lived, would he have tried again?

    But if the Norman Conquest hadn't happened, then England would have been more like the Scandinavian countries.
    Being conquered by Scandinavians made us less Scandinavian?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,157

    “We class schools, you see, into four grades: Leading School, First-rate School, Good School, and School. Frankly," said Mr Levy, "School is pretty bad...”
    How much VAT are we liable for?
  • I'm very happy to trade with Europe, and even China, but I don't think that should come at the expense of our political independence.

    For growth, the ones suffocating that are your lot.
    You seem to believe what you want to believe.

    I’d be tempted to put the strangulation of the British economy in the hands of austerity. See below.


    http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/GDPpercapita.jpg

  • TazTaz Posts: 17,116

    https://x.com/Sandford_Police/status/1875589313016295462

    We got restricted overnight and had to change the name. Currently awaiting review to get the tick back

    I would love to say Musk isn't personally up late restricting accounts but he seems to Tweet to hundreds of random accounts a day so he clearly has a lot of free time on his hands.
    I doubt it’s him personally, he is not omnipresent on Twitter after all but for accounts to claim it is the case it feeds into their sense of grievance. Not saying that’s the case here.
  • algarkirk said:

    The fact that Musk appears to believe, and act on the belief, that there can and will be viable long term human communities living on Mars in not all that long suggests that he may well be less good at thinking through some things than others.
    Does he believe that, though, or does he need to persuasively make a case to investors that there are returns within a reasonable timescale?

    I'm appalled by a lot of what Musk says, and think he's a thoroughly destructive character in politics. I also question the fundamentals of his businesses (although not from a position of deep knowledge). But he clearly has a proven record of getting investors to buy into his vision, and he can't do that by training down expectations in the markets he's active in, where everything depends on a highly uncertain projection of where we'll be in 20 years.
  • Taz said:

    I doubt it’s him personally, he is not omnipresent on Twitter after all but for accounts to claim it is the case it feeds into their sense of grievance. Not saying that’s the case here.

    Go on Elon's account, see how many times he's Tweeted over the last few days. He's clearly on it 24/7.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 5,517

    You seem to believe what you want to believe.

    I’d be tempted to put the strangulation of the British economy in the hands of austerity. See below.


    http://www.softmachines.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/GDPpercapita.jpg

    The trend line here includes a bubble. Put a 1970 to 1995 trend line on instead and it looks rather different.
  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 451

    I'm one of those that believes he got very lucky in his career but he was at least good and picking winning horses/causes. Well, until Twitter.

    The folks at PayPal clearly saw what he was, it's why they chucked him out - and he's been holding a grudge ever since.
    That must be an amazing amount of luck to become the richest person in the world, with a value of over £400bn.

    Always surprises me just how lucky some people continually are, year after year. Just like that Ronaldo bloke, or Djokovic, Wiliams sisters, Michael Johnson, Chris Hoy etc.....so so so so so so lucky.
This discussion has been closed.