Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
That's a fair point.
Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.
No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”
Next
And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.
Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.
How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.
Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.
At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"
On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress
So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.
What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level
I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help
Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.
You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me
It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)
Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.
Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”
Save the filing until you've sobered up.
If I ever did quit PB you’d probably go into some weird spasm of mourning. I dominate your thoughts so much it would be, for you, like heartbreak or grief. I imagine you walking around ventnor, crying, as everyone in ventnor tries to avoid you even more than normal
It’s a bit of a burden, frankly. I’ve got a lot on my plate right now - travel, family, new flint projects - but now I have to keep posting on here just so you don’t tip over into psychosis
It's a very good joke, well done. There is, of course, no one even a fiftieth as obsessed with you, as you.
Let me repeat a question from yesterday, since you had nearly gone to bed early.
What exactly is a decent, mid range restaurant chain in the UK? Can you name say 6 or 8 such chains? And how do you define the price point - in London and in the provinces?
Are we saying £20-30 per head for 3 (or perhaps 2) courses, or £40-50? (Without wine).
20 years when I was living off Chiswick High Road I would reach for names like Zizzi, iTs Italian, at a £13-20 price level, and several others at somewhat higher prices. And I would expect to get something more interesting at local independents if I knew the area.
Now I think the best mid-range attractive chain, according to me, I can come up with, is probably Bill's Restaurant. Otherwise, what about Carluccio or Gaucho? I'm tempted to add Wagamama, which is reliable but samey, and a place where you - or at least I - can suddenly spend an extra 50% before I notice.
I'd like to hear some more suggestions.
I see that we are still missing full stops ∴ here's an ellipsis ...
Cote - which is tremendous value, especially if you have their Prix Fixe.
I like Cosy Club. The vegan burger, but with real cheese, is excellent. Plenty of other great options too.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
That's a fair point.
Which could also be directed at your "I'm pretty sure that.." comment upthread.
No, because we have clear evidence from an informed source that he was on the run from Saudi criminal charges and “strategically” became an apostate. However this is still not certain, hence my “pretty sure”
Next
And @Northern_Al said 'reasonably clear' and 'unlikely' and 'apparent'. All equally not quite as definite as 'KNOW' which you accused @Northern_Al saying incorrectly and all pretty equivalent as a level of certainty as 'pretty sure'.
Bit of pot and kettle there as you exagerate @Northern_Al words.
How about if I quote your 'pretty sure' as 'KNOW' as you did to @Northern_Al.
Honestly for someone with such a command of the English language and a huge IQ this is pretty poor.
At least PB - after a painful, attenuated period of embarrasingly futile denial - is now acknowledging that I have a "huge IQ"
On a somewhat depressing day, that - I guess - is progress
So huge that you appear to need AI assistance to unpack your shopping.
What ARE you talking about? Are you actually outside my house? I know you are weirdly obsessed with me, and it verges on tragic, but actual stalking takes it to a new level
I have just done some shopping, as it happens, I'm not sure I now require robotic help
Simply reflecting back what you told us here, the other day. Maybe you were too drunk to remember.
You ARE obsessed with me, tho, aren't you? You and a few others. Even if I go away for a wihile, you will vent about me
It's quite pleasing. Especially as I never think about you, ever, apart from when we are directly chatting and I want to wind you up (not hard)
Not me. The level of discussion on this site elevates considerably during those periods when you are away from it.
Yeah. Sure. You’ve made about 726 comments about me to other PBers today alone. But whatever. I’ll just file it under “weirdo”
Save the filing until you've sobered up.
If I ever did quit PB you’d probably go into some weird spasm of mourning. I dominate your thoughts so much it would be, for you, like heartbreak or grief. I imagine you walking around ventnor, crying, as everyone in ventnor tries to avoid you even more than normal
It’s a bit of a burden, frankly. I’ve got a lot on my plate right now - travel, family, new flint projects - but now I have to keep posting on here just so you don’t tip over into psychosis
It's a very good joke, well done. There is, of course, no one even a fiftieth as obsessed with you, as you.
One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.
Let me repeat a question from yesterday, since you had nearly gone to bed early.
What exactly is a decent, mid range restaurant chain in the UK? Can you name say 6 or 8 such chains? And how do you define the price point - in London and in the provinces?
Are we saying £20-30 per head for 3 (or perhaps 2) courses, or £40-50? (Without wine).
20 years when I was living off Chiswick High Road I would reach for names like Zizzi, iTs Italian, at a £13-20 price level, and several others at somewhat higher prices. And I would expect to get something more interesting at local independents if I knew the area.
Now I think the best mid-range attractive chain, according to me, I can come up with, is probably Bill's Restaurant. Otherwise, what about Carluccio or Gaucho? I'm tempted to add Wagamama, which is reliable but samey, and a place where you - or at least I - can suddenly spend an extra 50% before I notice.
I'd like to hear some more suggestions.
I see that we are still missing full stops ∴ here's an ellipsis ...
Cote - which is tremendous value, especially if you have their Prix Fixe.
I like Cosy Club. The vegan burger, but with real cheese, is excellent. Plenty of other great options too.
It’s so dangerous for people to control their borders. So so dangerous. The dangerous level is off the charts.
If Elon restricted himself to calls for tighter borders, it would be fine. That’s quite clearly not the case.
And that’s before ennumerating the insidious effects of X itself. (And not just X, all the social media networks are problematic to a greater or lesser extent).
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
I like to see this kind of exchange and try to guess what may have prompted it. I never even get close.
One thing we don't have enough of in our politics is people who really know their brief inside out. And in choosing Siddiq to be our anti corruption Minister Starmer has gone for a member of a family who know everything there is to know about corruption. The family is facing corruption allegations of £3.4bn in Bangladesh. I mean that is professional, no wonder he has expressed confidence in her expertise.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
As I pointed out upthread but well done for eventually getting there.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
He’s a complete tit but, to be fair, you’re not averse to correcting others spelling errors.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Germans are much more socially mobile than Americans. Much less likely to be illiterate.
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Germans are much more socially mobile than Americans. Much less likely to be illiterate.
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
And then you'd emigrate because you'd realise you made the wrong choice...
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Germans are much more socially mobile than Americans. Much less likely to be illiterate.
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
I’d do the same. It’s a fascinating thought experiment.
I’d probably put the U.S. above France though. Just, below the Scandinavias, Germany, Aus/NZ, the Netherlands and, yes - just - the UK.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of typing time in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of typing time in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of typing time in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
It’s like walking into a pub full of angry squaddies.
The first drinking session I had with some squaddies, back when I was a teenager, they ended up trying to use condoms as a floss between their nostrils and their mouth...
(I came across some photos of that night earlier in the week. Good fun.)
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
So you’re in the 30% then.
I despise the hypocrisy but I’m happy to see reform to stop people buying influence.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Germans are much more socially mobile than Americans. Much less likely to be illiterate.
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
Oh Rawls. One of the very few people who could make a legal system make sense. Not sure he ever came to Scotland though.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
So you’re in the 30% then.
I’m watching the 1% club and am down to 35% so not far off.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Germans are much more socially mobile than Americans. Much less likely to be illiterate.
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
I think the widespread celebration of a murderer of a law-abiding CEO of a major healthcare insurance company says a lot about the level of disconnect between many ordinary people and the elite in America.
The success of the culture wars, particularly for the Right, has been up put different groups of people there who share the same economic interests on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy
Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of typing time in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of typing time in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.
But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?
I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.
But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.
Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?
I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
The cabot cove episodes are the best - the ones in new york generally weaker.
Special mention for the Magnum PI crossover episodes. The 80s was an odd time.
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
Give it a few years and Reform will be complaining about New Reform taking dirty money from XYZ. Meanwhile the 2-3 remaining Tory and Labour grandees in the chamber will try and look surprised.
Would you prefer the journalist provided their own sneering commentary?
No
I’d prefer it if the article wasn’t, essentially, a PR puff piece.
Just a silly comment. It’s just a straightforward account of Reeves’s comments. It’s not unfriendly, but nor is it “puffery”.
So you are simply moaning that of all places the Guardian should print an interview with of all people the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
But surely it's up to a journalist to ask difficult questions around how this stuff will be delivered. It's one thing to a bit off to be printing everything the chancellor says without even simple questions or even a tiny bit of pushback. Otherwise it's just a bit of PR for Rachel from customer service.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.
But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.
Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.
I think Rawl's Veil of Ignorance applies, don't you?
Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?
I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.
But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy
Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.
I'm sorry, but it is you who is showing ignorance. Christianity has frequently been critiqued for it's lack of 'killer instinct' - for example blamed for making the Romans lose their cruel edge when they converted. Criticised by Hitler for its namby pamby attitude. Yes there's some fire and brimstone, particularly in the OT, but the Gospels, which are the overridingly important part of the Bible, because Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testmanent, espouses a doctrine of love and forgiveness, and of faith being an inner grace, which allows 'rendering unto ceasar' - not demanding the violent overthrow of non-Christian authority.
Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.
The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions of a lazy politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?
I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
Angela Lansbury used to shop at my local grocery store well into her 90s. Sadly she passed a few years ago.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?
I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
Christopher Webb @cwebbonline · 16h Whew! A major Tesla investor, @GerberKawasaki Ross Gerber, holding over $100 million in Tesla stock, slams Elon Musk for backing a Neo-Nazi-linked party in Germany.
I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mention the superlative “Say Nothing” on here.
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
No love for the (formulaic but fun) Matlock?
I haven’t seen it, but I’m pretty wary of reboots.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
I have this as a cushion cover :
Great fun show. Continued for such a long time too.
When the Tony Blair institute gets millions from Larry Ellison, a Wealty US resident, and it lobbies and influences govt policy that’s fine
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
Give it a few years and Reform will be complaining about New Reform taking dirty money from XYZ. Meanwhile the 2-3 remaining Tory and Labour grandees in the chamber will try and look surprised.
It will very much be a case of ‘meet the new boss, same as the old boss’
Don’t doubt it at all. Insurgents cannot be insurgents forever.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
It takes a long, long time for poor families to catch up with rich ones. It doesn't have to be a result of racism. A couple of decades ago, someone built a fascinating webpage showing for any British surname where it was clustered. Almost incidentally, it gave some socio-economic stats on the surname.It was quite striking, even six generations after the big wave of industrial-revolution immigration from Ireland how Irish surnames were disproportionately found at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. It's also striking how (in Manchester at least) how common it is to find Irish surnames in organised crime. It's just much less visible when the evidence is a surname rather than skin colour. I don't think the USA is notably unsuccessful in this regard.
The traditional political parties in Germany have utterly failed the people.
🇩🇪 AfD is the only hope for Germany 🇩🇪
Do we really need hourly updates on that ?
It's also bizarre:
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
American statistics are heavily distorted by its demographics so it can be misleading to compare them directly with European countries. For example a *majority* of murder victims are black:
Now would you like to check out what the German murder rate is?
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
So, the murder rate for African Americans in the US is nearly 40x the German rate? Bloody hell. That's incredible.
What's the murder rate for Jews in Germany?
Now? No idea. There has been a rise in anti Semitic attacks since Gaza started but I am not aware of how many involve murder.
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Well, obviously, the much higher murder rate for Black people in the US, along with much else, is a sign of how the US has failed to deal with the legacies of slavery. This should be a stain upon that nation's conscience.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
I do cut the US some slack. Indeed, I love the US.
But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.
Based on similar reasoning you could have argued against the idea that communist Eastern Europe was some kind of hell hole that needed rescuing.
I think Rawl's Veil of Ignorance applies, don't you?
Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?
I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.
But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?
I certainly wouldn't.
Are you fully applying the veil of ignorance though or are you assuming you would be a 'cishet white male'? You might choose Denmark, but by a stroke of bad luck it turns out that you are a persecuted minority who is having their 'ghetto' bulldozed by the state.
Just imagine the kind of reaction on social media if that had happened in the U.K. I fear the usual suspects would be gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tension and cleiming conspiracies if challenged.
I hope Germany is spared that.
We’ve already got the usual suspects here gobbing off peddling their agendas, raising tensions and claiming conspiracies if challenged. I’m absolutely sure there are German equivalents doing the same on German social media, sadly.
Yes, the convolutions have been remarkable. Last night the usual suspects assumed that the unhinged Saudi doctor carried out the atrocity in the name of jihad. But the narrative had to change slightly when it became reasonably clear that this was unlikely to be the case, and his apparent influences included AfD etc. Not to be defeated, it turns out that it was a double bluff, as he was obviously hiding his jidahism in other guises. Stunning. Like everybody else, I've no idea what his motives were at the moment.
If you’ve got no idea what his motives are, how come you nonetheless KNOW he’s not anyway influenced by jihadism?
Rather than jumping to conclusions here and on twitter and where ever else, which can and does stimulate reactions, some of which can be quite serious eg riot, arson, murder, etc why not just wait for the facts to become clear and then one can be justifiably outraged at whatever is the cause, whether that be jihadi, fascist or whatever tenancies.
At the end of the day it was a failure of the state to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence. Attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game.
You don't know that. You are also jumping to conclusions. He could be a jihadist, he could be a right wing zealot or as in many cases in the past it could simply be someone will mental problems. However rushing to conclusions of either the first two often starts riots, arson and even murder.
Yes I do know that, and so do you. You seem to be in denial.
In the very unlikely event I am ever tried for something I hope to god you are not on the jury. I like to rely on facts and not internet trolls.
My comment was that the state had failed to protect its citizens from inter-ethnic violence and that attributing an ideological motivation to it is a fool's game. It's a fact that an act of inter-ethnic violence occured and it's a fact that the state failed to prevent it.
Again you can't know that. It might well be so. It only happened yesterday and you are just reading posts from people you have no idea you can rely on. The guy clearly has a conflicting background and actions. How do you know he isn't schizophrenic or suffering from some other mental issues?
You just don't know, yet we tolerate people stirring up potential racist violence who don't have the facts. Why can't people wait for the facts.
The only way in which it could not be true is if they've apprehended the wrong man, which seems highly unlikely. For whatever reason, this person developed a murderous rage against Germans - whether this was islamism, anti-islamism or mental issues doesn't change this fact. It also doesn't change the fact that the authorities were aware of it and failed to act.
In particular Twitter did nothing about his postings, which were in plain sight, and indeed still are.
Take this one from August this year, which seems very much not Islamist:
Indeed so far as I can understand his train of thought it is not that he wants to Islamise Germany, but that Germany is deporting Saudi asylum seekers, particularly women, back to Saudi to be imprisoned or killed.
It’s impossible to follow his train of thought. He’s made some comments in Arabic which directly contradict stuff he’s said in English. I think he might simply be a criminal nutter who PROBABLY faked apostasy to avoid extradition, and he has developed a bizarre, murderous grudge against Germany and Germans
If he was that anti-Islam or Saudi surely he would have attacked a mosque or an embassy
Instead he attacked a Christmas market?! He also did it on the anniversary - I think - of a known jihadi attack against a German Xmas market
Remember kids:
If a white Christian kills a bunch of people, it's because he's mentally ill.
If a brown Muslim does it, it's because he's motivated by Islam.
I am not sure why you find that dichotomy so strange. Christianity is a faith based around the central tenets of forgiveness and loving thine enemies. Killing is strictly prohibited in the faith. Christians have been warlike peoples but they are not commanded in the Bible to spread their faith at the point of the sword, and it has been many hundreds of years since there were wars to spread Christianity. There is no sect of Christianity that advocates the violent spreading of the faith. None of that is true of Islam.
The absolute state of this comment
Great riposte numnuts.
Superlative counter-swipe!
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
Did it deserve the time to write something better?
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
Well, surely numbnuts has a b in it, for a start.
OK, and?
I thought a certain pedantry was encouraged on this forum.
Your pendantry (and Taz's) is welcome.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy
Your comment was so ignorant on every possible level that it did not merit a response beyond what I posted. You are usually a reasonable a rational poster but that was simply xenophobic dross.
I'm sorry, but it is you who is showing ignorance. Christianity has frequently been critiqued for it's lack of 'killer instinct' - for example blamed for making the Romans lose their cruel edge when they converted. Criticised by Hitler for its namby pamby attitude. Yes there's some fire and brimstone, particularly in the OT, but the Gospels, which are the overridingly important part of the Bible, because Christ was the fulfillment of the Old Testmanent, espouses a doctrine of love and forgiveness, and of faith being an inner grace, which allows 'rendering unto ceasar' - not demanding the violent overthrow of non-Christian authority.
Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.
The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions based on nothing more than an assumed politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.
Afair - Jung was quite critical of Christianity for it's lack of a strong, negative female archetype. I don't remember him talking about Islam - but he was quite gung-ho on Buddhism. Which I don't remember having a string, negative female archetype either.
I possibly just haven't paid for enough expensive therapy sessions though.
Comments
There is, of course, no one even a fiftieth as obsessed with you, as you.
https://x.com/pippacrerar/status/1870499937743745082?s=61
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1870186419055976821
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1664_(beer)
Kronenbourg 1664 is a golden pale lager with an alcohol by volume (ABV) of 5.5% in continental Europe and 5.0% and 4.6% for the UK market.
German people live longer than Americans, they're less likely to be murdered or medicated or depressed. They are far less likely to be homeless.
America is an amazing place to be rich. Germany is a much, much better place to be lower or middle income.
Elon Musk is a very clear danger to liberal democracies.
https://x.com/jdvance/status/1870448846528205242
It’s so dangerous for people to control their borders. So so dangerous. The dangerous level is off the charts.
I’d prefer it if the article wasn’t, essentially, a PR puff piece.
And that’s before ennumerating the insidious effects of X itself. (And not just X, all the social media networks are problematic to a greater or lesser extent).
This is why we keep coming back to PB.
I make no other comment
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/
There was no attempt to engage or contradict the point. Just an expression of the initial post apparently being beyond the pale for unknown reasons.
At least Bondegoozoo took time to Google "list of violent passages from the Bible".
It’s just a straightforward account of Reeves’s comments. It’s not unfriendly, but nor is it “puffery”.
So you are simply moaning that of all places the Guardian should print an interview with of all people the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Seriously, GFY.
I can only presume you are on the turps, which would explain the stupidity of your original post, and the shittiness of your last response.
It's about 0.8 per 100,000 people.
The murder rate for white, non-Hispanic, in the US is more than 4. (Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30-32 for African Americans.)
But... even picking the lowest likelihood of getting murdered ethnic group, the US homicide rate is 5x the German rate.
I guess windows don’t lick themselves.
BTW I’m drinking Tetley tea, as strong as it gets today for me.
https://youtu.be/tD4q3leE5Uw?si=ILHU1CI6npU_cQnG
They're not going to be turned away from healthcare by lack of money.
Look, I love America. I love the opportunity. I love the size. I love the people. But it's also utterly bonkers to think that Germany is some kind of hell hole.
If I was choosing under Rawl's Veil of Ignorance between America and Germany, I think I'd probably choose Germany.
https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1870559873215373597?t=0RAI1YA21rn1bLnabwZyhA&s=19
It’s a fascinating thought experiment.
I’d probably put the U.S. above France though. Just, below the Scandinavias, Germany, Aus/NZ, the Netherlands and, yes - just - the UK.
Reform gets money from a US resident and it’s not.
The cosy duopoly of,labour and the Tories are happy, or have been, to take whatever they can or have their closely aligned lobbying groups doing the same it’s fine.
Once an outsider does it then it’s a problem. Bloody hypocrites.
Dipshits wasting my time and everyone elses with asinine wastes of characters in response to reasonably argued lists of points I have to be in the mood for.
*two glasses of red wine at dinner - please excuse general illiteracy
(I came across some photos of that night earlier in the week. Good fun.)
I’m in the 11% from the original question.
Hope all is well with you.
Of the 92 teams in the soccer league. From premier to league 2. Only one. Bromley. Is in a Tory seat.
https://x.com/qikipedia/status/1870431522664427558?s=61
What's your point? That the US is better that Nazi Germany?
Along with “Shogun”, one of the shows of the year.
The success of the culture wars, particularly for the Right, has been up put different groups of people there who share the same economic interests on the opposite end of the political spectrum.
Since the comparison is between the US and Germany it's natural to think about how Germany has dealt with the Holocaust and its legacy. But then, of course, the Jewish population in Germany is no longer high enough to calculate a statistically meaningful murder rate. So Germany doesn't have to deal with the legacy of its history in as difficult a way as the US does.
So perhaps the US deserves to be cut some slack? What they are trying to do - in recovering from a monumental historical wrong like race-based slavery, without an external power forcing them to face up to it, and without the two sides separating into different polities - is really very difficult, and I don't think it has been achieved by any country before.
Maybe they've done quite well to get as far as they have?
Not too well reviewed, and rather light, but I enjoyed "A man on the inside" with Ted Danson on Netflix.
But what I take exception to is the absurd claims of Musk and others that Germany is some kind of hell hole that needs rescuing.
Instead, I have introduced my 10 yo daughter to the delights of the original “Murder She Wrote”, which at a distance of 40 years is hilariously camp and kitsch.
Special mention for the Magnum PI crossover episodes. The 80s was an odd time.
Assume you have no knowedge as to your race, intelligence, social stature; which country would you choose to be born in?
I think most people, given that choice right now, would go with Norway or Australia or Canada or New Zealand or Singapore or Denmark.
But would you really have chosen Eastern Europe in communist days over the US?
I certainly wouldn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_&_Mrs_Murder
Takes an episode or two to find it's feet - but quite delightful in the mix of macabre and amusement.
Islam was developed by someone familiar with Christianity and is a response to it and in many ways a rebellion against it. The spread of Islam by the sword is advocated within the faith. Also Islam (which means submission) is all about the outward observance of faith, not about it being an inner matter.
The two faiths are absolutely different in their philosphical attitude to force, and that is why I made the comment I did. If you want to come at me with an interpretation that contradicts what I said, that might teach me something, go for it. If all you've got is a casual dismissal based on your own utter ignorance and assumptions of a lazy politically-correct position, expect to be casually dismissed in return.
Christopher Webb
@cwebbonline
·
16h
Whew! A major Tesla investor, @GerberKawasaki
Ross Gerber, holding over $100 million in Tesla stock, slams Elon Musk for backing a Neo-Nazi-linked party in Germany.
https://x.com/cwebbonline/status/1870325355686531578
Don’t doubt it at all. Insurgents cannot be insurgents forever.
A couple of decades ago, someone built a fascinating webpage showing for any British surname where it was clustered. Almost incidentally, it gave some socio-economic stats on the surname.It was quite striking, even six generations after the big wave of industrial-revolution immigration from Ireland how Irish surnames were disproportionately found at the bottom of the socio-economic pile.
It's also striking how (in Manchester at least) how common it is to find Irish surnames in organised crime.
It's just much less visible when the evidence is a surname rather than skin colour. I don't think the USA is notably unsuccessful in this regard.
I possibly just haven't paid for enough expensive therapy sessions though.