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As the beauty parade begins – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,051
edited 6:31AM in General
imageAs the beauty parade begins – politicalbetting.com

This week is key to the Tory leadership contest as the four candidates make their pitch at conference, as we saw in 2005 one good speech can upend a race.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    Sandpit said:
    How many members does the party now have ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    With no woman in tomorrow's debate, what will be the viewing figures ?

    Ratings Rankings for Vice Presidential Debates
    2008: 69.9 Million
    2020: 57.9 Million
    1984: 56.7 Million
    2012: 51.4 Million
    1992: 51.2 Million
    1988: 46.9 Million
    2004: 43.5 Million
    1976: 43.2 Million
    2016: 36.0 Million
    2000: 28.5 Million
    1996: 26.6 Million..

    https://x.com/nick_field90/status/1840540307961544964
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,762
    Laying the favourite only works up to a point, then becomes the losing strategy.

    I think we are at that point where MPs put up Cleverley against Jenrick in the members ballot, and Jenrick wins.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498
    Sandpit said:
    But that was before Kemi started to talk about Maternity pay - there was surely something less controversially (such as pensions) that she could have used to make her point.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,531
    Mr. Topping, I wonder if the Budget will happen before the leadership result or vice versa.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,170
    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    I don't, actually.

    But, I do think it should finish one week earlier so the new leader can respond to the Budget and isn't overshadowed by the US presidential.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,571
    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    I don't.

    All I know is that I will not be voting for Jenrick.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375

    Mr. Topping, I wonder if the Budget will happen before the leadership result or vice versa.

    Surely the best thing for the Tories to do with the Budget response, is to have the incumbent with his years of Treasury experience do it, rather than someone new who will have only been in post a week or two.

    If you want anyone to understand the bits between the lines in the Budget, it’s Spreadsheet Rishi.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,170
    I sense Strides MPs may divide quite evenly between Cleverly and Tugendhat and some will probably go to Jenrick too (weird patterns) so unless there's a big event or a miracle it does look like Kemi v Jenrick
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,917
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Topping, I wonder if the Budget will happen before the leadership result or vice versa.

    Surely the best thing for the Tories to do with the Budget response, is to have the incumbent with his years of Treasury experience do it, rather than someone new who will have only been in post a week or two.

    If you want anyone to understand the bits between the lines in the Budget, it’s Spreadsheet Rishi.
    True, but much easier to blame everything on Sunak if he's sat there opposite rather than a new, fresh leader.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    So for all you "I don't" responders why on earth don't you. What revelation is going to emerge that will swing your vote after these months and months.

    Plus what on earth are you doing as members of the Nasty Party in the first place.

    I suspect that for all your "I don'ts" if you were forced to make a decision today and name a name it would be the same one as you will eventually vote for on polling day.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    edited 6:53AM
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Topping, I wonder if the Budget will happen before the leadership result or vice versa.

    Surely the best thing for the Tories to do with the Budget response, is to have the incumbent with his years of Treasury experience do it, rather than someone new who will have only been in post a week or two.

    If you want anyone to understand the bits between the lines in the Budget, it’s Spreadsheet Rishi.
    Whether it's true or not (I have no idea) very sadly for him I suspect the abiding judgement of Rishi will be that he had too much money really to care about governing the country as PM. Interested to see what he does now.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,653

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    I don't.

    All I know is that I will not be voting for Jenrick.
    Spoilsport
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,211
    Rosie Duffield LOL
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,571

    Mr. Topping, I wonder if the Budget will happen before the leadership result or vice versa.

    Only Badenoch doesn't want the result brought forward.

    Deep down she knows if she wins, she'd shit the bed with the budget response.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,571
    edited 6:57AM

    Rosie Duffield LOL

    I had fun looking at the freebies she had received. She received money from the Nadhim Zahawi via YouGov.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375
    Nigelb said:

    With no woman in tomorrow's debate, what will be the viewing figures ?

    Ratings Rankings for Vice Presidential Debates
    2008: 69.9 Million
    2020: 57.9 Million
    1984: 56.7 Million
    2012: 51.4 Million
    1992: 51.2 Million
    1988: 46.9 Million
    2004: 43.5 Million
    1976: 43.2 Million
    2016: 36.0 Million
    2000: 28.5 Million
    1996: 26.6 Million..

    https://x.com/nick_field90/status/1840540307961544964

    Okay I admit I had to look up Geraldine Ferraro, Mondale’s running mate in 1984.

    Looking forward to this debate, in a different way to Trump and Harris. Suspect there will be more policy and less personality.

    I also suspect the recorded viewing figures will be well down, as most people will be watching it online rather than on TV, and not all on the official stream.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,976
    Badenoch gets ever more interesting
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,750
    That's one ugly beauty parade...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,175

    Rosie Duffield LOL

    I had fun looking at the freebies she had received. She received money from the Nadhim Zahawi via YouGov.


    What value are they supposed to book for things? I'm still do not know whether it was technically valid to book that New York trip at long term rental value rather than Airbnb value. I wonder what was booked for George Osborne's yacht holiday back in the day.

    If SKS had been able to book tickets to a major sporting event plus hospitality for £350, the last three weeks might never have happened.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    I don't.

    All I know is that I will not be voting for Jenrick.
    Once again you are demonstration my viewpoint that most people don't vote for their preferred candidate but vote for the candidate likely to win against the candidate they aren't voting for.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,170

    Rosie Duffield LOL

    I had fun looking at the freebies she had received. She received money from the Nadhim Zahawi via YouGov.


    £110 for a YouGov survey?

    Not exactly mouth stuffed with gold is it.

    TopCashBack gave me £30 for buying my car insurance through them.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,170
    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633
    Alcohol prices up in Scotland today due to MUP up to 65p

    Well done SNP, a winning policy. Even though alcohol related deaths increased when they promised the introduction of MUP would see them fall the policy is a winner as its advocates have said.

    Meanwhile

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61710564
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,117
    Pro_Rata said:

    Rosie Duffield LOL

    I had fun looking at the freebies she had received. She received money from the Nadhim Zahawi via YouGov.


    What value are they supposed to book for things? I'm still do not know whether it was technically valid to book that New York trip at long term rental value rather than Airbnb value. I wonder what was booked for George Osborne's yacht holiday back in the day.

    If SKS had been able to book tickets to a major sporting event plus hospitality for £350, the last three weeks might never have happened.
    What of the £18 million flat for a party political broadcast? Its value to Starmer was that it was a room. It could have been any room. The posh flat surrounding it made no difference to its utility as a broadcast set.

    And that's another thing. I used to work in Covent Garden and find it hard to believe anyone would pay £18 million to live there.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,976
    FF43 said:

    Badenoch gets ever more interesting

    And Jenrick gets ever less interesting.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633
    UK GDP second quarter revised downwards from 0.6% to 0.5%, first quarter of the year remains unchanged at 0.7%
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    They are in opposition for 4-5 years minimum.

    Which means policies are not actually that important at the moment (for anything discussed now will be irrelevant in 4 years time) except for policies that may attract Reform / Lib Dem voters. Now Jenrick is going all in on removing the ECHR which may attract Reform voters but it does mean that he's picked a smaller pond to fish in and one that will utterly repulse the voters in the other pond.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,578
    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    It's going to get worse before it gets better. The blue on blue has barely begun.

    Crazy though the timetable is, it's probably what happens if a party is mad enough to call a July election and lose. (See also the Budget.)

    The conference had to have a role, and that could either be the beauty parade or the big reveal. I guess the latter could have been made to work... Westminster rounds in July, before the summer recess. Membership vote in September, announcement today. I suspect that works better on paper than in reality. So you end up with what we have.

    Railway timetable theory of history, except the timetable is by Avanti West Coast.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519
    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    Now that is impressive, even by S Korean standards.

    Yoon's approval rating sinks to lowest point since taking office
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=383344
    President Yoon Suk Yeol's approval rating has fallen to 25.8 percent, the lowest level since he took office in 2022, with the negative assessment of his performance topping 70 percent for the first time, a poll showed Monday...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375
    Taz said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
    They all need to do some proper long-form interviews. If they can’t get Andrew Neil to do it, then someone like Emma Barnett is also good at probing questions.

    At least an hour for each candidate, we want to hear their vision and not just a 10m sofa chat filled with soundbites and platitudes.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,772
    Slightly off topic, yet in a way oddly related, this is a fascinating video about the wacky ways that a crazy single-issue campaigner destroyed the political party he set up in Japan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZG95grO-vc

    The irony is that the issue he campaigned on, ending NHK's (the Japanese BBC's) licence fee, is wildly popular.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498
    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    The counter argument - all the current candidates are crap because Johnson's defenestration removed the counter argument from the party - hence you have 4 right wing candidates because the wet / centralist wing of the party lost the middle management in 2020.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,375
    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    If they have learned anything, it is that they should never have put BoZo or Truss to the members
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,571
    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    Oh behave, the only person that defenestrated Boris Johnson was Boris Johnson when he lied about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,493

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    It's going to get worse before it gets better. The blue on blue has barely begun.

    Crazy though the timetable is, it's probably what happens if a party is mad enough to call a July election and lose. (See also the Budget.)

    The conference had to have a role, and that could either be the beauty parade or the big reveal. I guess the latter could have been made to work... Westminster rounds in July, before the summer recess. Membership vote in September, announcement today. I suspect that works better on paper than in reality. So you end up with what we have.

    Railway timetable theory of history, except the timetable is by Avanti West Coast.
    AIUI the timetable is not set by Avanti west Coast, but by the government... ;)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,578

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    The problem with the old "less consumption" view of how to run a country is always "you first".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,375
    Jenrick might be in spot of bother over his "totally legal" donation


  • eekeek Posts: 27,498

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    It's going to get worse before it gets better. The blue on blue has barely begun.

    Crazy though the timetable is, it's probably what happens if a party is mad enough to call a July election and lose. (See also the Budget.)

    The conference had to have a role, and that could either be the beauty parade or the big reveal. I guess the latter could have been made to work... Westminster rounds in July, before the summer recess. Membership vote in September, announcement today. I suspect that works better on paper than in reality. So you end up with what we have.

    Railway timetable theory of history, except the timetable is by Avanti West Coast.
    AIUI the timetable is not set by Avanti west Coast, but by the government... ;)
    Nope - it's the job of Network Rail - who co-ordinate the requests from each company and produce the timetable.

    I know that because I've continually objected to the proposed changes to the ECML timetable as LNER / Lumo try to remove trains from Durham / Darlington on dubious grounds.

    Thankfully their arguments disappear when Darlington's realignment is finished..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,493
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    It's going to get worse before it gets better. The blue on blue has barely begun.

    Crazy though the timetable is, it's probably what happens if a party is mad enough to call a July election and lose. (See also the Budget.)

    The conference had to have a role, and that could either be the beauty parade or the big reveal. I guess the latter could have been made to work... Westminster rounds in July, before the summer recess. Membership vote in September, announcement today. I suspect that works better on paper than in reality. So you end up with what we have.

    Railway timetable theory of history, except the timetable is by Avanti West Coast.
    AIUI the timetable is not set by Avanti west Coast, but by the government... ;)
    Nope - it's the job of Network Rail - who co-ordinate the requests from each company and produce the timetable.

    I know that because I've continually objected to the proposed changes to the ECML timetable as LNER / Lumo try to remove trains from Durham / Darlington on dubious grounds.

    Thankfully their arguments disappear when Darlington's realignment is finished..
    I thought it was the DfT (as well?).

    But anyway, Network Rail is government-owned and ran...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    edited 7:32AM
    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,578
    TOPPING said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    The problem with the old "less consumption" view of how to run a country is always "you first".
    Absolutely. Which is why it normally takes national bankruptcy or total defeat or similar to enforce it. Hence the cynicism some have for democracy as a system.

    But arithmetic can only be defeated for so long, and I'd rather not live through national bankruptcy or total defeat.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519

    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    Oh behave, the only person that defenestrated Boris Johnson was Boris Johnson when he lied about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority.
    By autumn 2024, Johnson would have ridden out partygate (and pinchergate). It’s highly unlikely Farage would have been motivated to leave the pub, in any case too distracted by the US election to bother with UK politics while Boris was still in charge.

    He would have wiped the floor with Starmer, possibly even building on his prior majority. Instead due to the quirks of FPTP, a small fraction of the electorate has hoisted socialism on the country.

    Not a comfortable thing to admit if you have an aversion to Johnson the man, but it’s hard to deny that he’d have won another majority.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,050
    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    I lolled. Even the most insane CiF articles would struggle to conflate the two.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    Super weird that the BBC posts a list of this morning's headlines.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw5yyjx75po

    Not at all weird that Topping comments on something he hasn't looked at ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,375
    moonshine said:

    it’s hard to deny that he’d have won another majority.

    He would not have won another majority
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,050

    TOPPING said:

    PLEASE GOD MAKE IT STOP.

    I almost spat out my coffee when Chris Mason said, apropos of the leadership election and Rishi's speech, that there is another month of this.

    Surely everyone who has a vote knows who they will be voting for. Let's hold the ballot this evening and be done by Weds elevenses.

    It's going to get worse before it gets better. The blue on blue has barely begun.

    Crazy though the timetable is, it's probably what happens if a party is mad enough to call a July election and lose. (See also the Budget.)

    The conference had to have a role, and that could either be the beauty parade or the big reveal. I guess the latter could have been made to work... Westminster rounds in July, before the summer recess. Membership vote in September, announcement today. I suspect that works better on paper than in reality. So you end up with what we have.

    Railway timetable theory of history, except the timetable is by Avanti West Coast.
    Most Tory leadership elections are like this. I've long thought the main reason is that they really enjoy it.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
    They all need to do some proper long-form interviews. If they can’t get Andrew Neil to do it, then someone like Emma Barnett is also good at probing questions.

    At least an hour for each candidate, we want to hear their vision and not just a 10m sofa chat filled with soundbites and platitudes.
    I get the impression from his twitter feed Andrew Neil would jump at it. But would they want to be probed by someone like him.

  • eekeek Posts: 27,498
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    Oh behave, the only person that defenestrated Boris Johnson was Boris Johnson when he lied about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority.
    By autumn 2024, Johnson would have ridden out partygate (and pinchergate). It’s highly unlikely Farage would have been motivated to leave the pub, in any case too distracted by the US election to bother with UK politics while Boris was still in charge.

    He would have wiped the floor with Starmer, possibly even building on his prior majority. Instead due to the quirks of FPTP, a small fraction of the electorate has hoisted socialism on the country.

    Not a comfortable thing to admit if you have an aversion to Johnson the man, but it’s hard to deny that he’d have won another majority.
    I think that's called in your dreams. The reason why Labour won a lot of seats the Tories lost is because Bozo promised things and then the following leaders failed to deliver them.

    Now Bozo before the money spent on Covid (and the spending cuts afterwards) would in all likelihood have won a second election but that world does not exist anymore..
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519
    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,050

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    I would argue our democracy needs both an English Revolutionary Party AND a party focused on business investment and value for money in public services. Just not necessarily in the same party.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    Super weird that the BBC posts a list of this morning's headlines.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw5yyjx75po

    Not at all weird that Topping comments on something he hasn't looked at ?
    Twat. It is the only conflated item.

    I mean you can read, can't you.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633
    Scott_xP said:

    Jenrick might be in spot of bother over his "totally legal" donation


    It is amazing how partisan people on here are when it comes to donations.

    Labour legal donation - good

    Tory legal donation - bad

    And vice versa.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519
    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    it’s hard to deny that he’d have won another majority.

    He would not have won another majority
    It’s fruitless arguing over a counterfactual, especially when you provide no reasoning. But Starmer’s win was loveless, he barely increased the labour vote share from Corbyn, ditto Davey. Perhaps the green vote would have been suppressed given how much Boris triggered such types. But without Reform entering the race, even Sunak / Hunt stood a chance of holding onto power.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    Super weird that the BBC posts a list of this morning's headlines.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw5yyjx75po

    Not at all weird that Topping comments on something he hasn't looked at ?
    Twat. It is the only conflated item.

    I mean you can read, can't you.
    Yes, it's literally a list of the UK papers' morning headlines, which those two items dominate.
    Requires some serious anti-Beeb animus to read anything more than that into it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    I lolled. Even the most insane CiF articles would struggle to conflate the two.
    Er, no.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,519
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    Super weird "Most Read" section of the BBC website. Everything gets its own story apart from Badenoch and Israel.


    Super weird that the BBC posts a list of this morning's headlines.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpw5yyjx75po

    Not at all weird that Topping comments on something he hasn't looked at ?
    Twat. It is the only conflated item.

    I mean you can read, can't you.
    Yes, it's literally a list of the UK papers' morning headlines, which those two items dominate.
    Requires some serious anti-Beeb animus to read anything more than that into it.
    Where was the "anti-Beeb animus" (twat x2) in my post.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
    They all need to do some proper long-form interviews. If they can’t get Andrew Neil to do it, then someone like Emma Barnett is also good at probing questions.

    At least an hour for each candidate, we want to hear their vision and not just a 10m sofa chat filled with soundbites and platitudes.
    I get the impression from his twitter feed Andrew Neil would jump at it. But would they want to be probed by someone like him.

    It shoudn’t be up to the candidates. If you want to be party leader, you should be capable of sitting down for an hour with a serious journalist, who isn’t looking to trip you up but wants serious answers to serious questions.

    If they don’t want to do it with Neil, then give them Stephen Sackur from BBC World News, he’s interviewed every mad and bad dictator over the last couple of decades.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,436
    Pro_Rata said:

    Rosie Duffield LOL

    I had fun looking at the freebies she had received. She received money from the Nadhim Zahawi via YouGov.


    What value are they supposed to book for things? I'm still do not know whether it was technically valid to book that New York trip at long term rental value rather than Airbnb value. I wonder what was booked for George Osborne's yacht holiday back in the day.

    If SKS had been able to book tickets to a major sporting event plus hospitality for £350, the last three weeks might never have happened.
    They are supposed to book the cost of obtaining the equivalent service/item. So The long term rental value for a holiday hire would be incorrect.

    As to the sporting ticket costs - that's just an indication of Football vs other sports.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,091

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Only Steve Baker (not an MP) presents with a public face of realising these are issues, along with quality of leadership.

    He would not get my vote, but if there is to be a successor to Farage in public life (WRT capacity to have a public face which is populist and not entirely content free) Baker is a candidate.

    Is he by any chance writing a book?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,436
    moonshine said:

    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
    Getting the LibDems into the news has been quite a challenge. Lots of non-political people don't hear or see anything related to them for weeks at a time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,801
    Interesting.

    Texas Net Favorables:

    Allred: +5%

    Walz: -2%
    Trump: -2%
    Vance: -4%
    Harris: -4%
    Cruz: -8%

    Public Policy Polling / Sept 26, 2024

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1840569612254974001
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
    They all need to do some proper long-form interviews. If they can’t get Andrew Neil to do it, then someone like Emma Barnett is also good at probing questions.

    At least an hour for each candidate, we want to hear their vision and not just a 10m sofa chat filled with soundbites and platitudes.
    I get the impression from his twitter feed Andrew Neil would jump at it. But would they want to be probed by someone like him.

    It shoudn’t be up to the candidates. If you want to be party leader, you should be capable of sitting down for an hour with a serious journalist, who isn’t looking to trip you up but wants serious answers to serious questions.

    If they don’t want to do it with Neil, then give them Stephen Sackur from BBC World News, he’s interviewed every mad and bad dictator over the last couple of decades.
    I’d far rather it be a Rogan type interview. Not clear who the British equivalent is, bit of a gap in the market. Piers Morgan desperate for the comparison of course but no.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375

    moonshine said:

    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
    Getting the LibDems into the news has been quite a challenge. Lots of non-political people don't hear or see anything related to them for weeks at a time.
    They should find it easier now they are back to being the third-largest party in the Commons. They’ve had the SNP stealing their thunder since 2015.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,130
    moonshine said:

    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
    What that shows in fact is that Swinson's Lib Dems did much better in vote share than the legend of their decline and fall gives credit for. 2019 looks bad for the Lib Dems chiefly for 3 reasons:

    - The Lib Dem vote was extremely inefficient (by contrast Davey's vote in 2024 was merely proportional), as the party remained in the wilderness in its old SW seats while making progress, but not enough, in the Blue Wall
    - Only a couple of months before they were at 18%+ and talking hubristically about making huge gains
    - Swinson lost her own seat

    Without Brexit as a lightning rod in the 2019-24 parliament the party could have rendered itself irrelevant. That it didn't, and managed a bump up during the campaign, is down to astute targeting and a positive campaign that gave everyone permission to vote tactically.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375
    moonshine said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    Both interviews on Kuenssberg yesterday were bland and banal. Mind you Laura K hardly probed either candidate. I suspect Victoria Derbyshire would have been far more probing.
    They all need to do some proper long-form interviews. If they can’t get Andrew Neil to do it, then someone like Emma Barnett is also good at probing questions.

    At least an hour for each candidate, we want to hear their vision and not just a 10m sofa chat filled with soundbites and platitudes.
    I get the impression from his twitter feed Andrew Neil would jump at it. But would they want to be probed by someone like him.

    It shoudn’t be up to the candidates. If you want to be party leader, you should be capable of sitting down for an hour with a serious journalist, who isn’t looking to trip you up but wants serious answers to serious questions.

    If they don’t want to do it with Neil, then give them Stephen Sackur from BBC World News, he’s interviewed every mad and bad dictator over the last couple of decades.
    I’d far rather it be a Rogan type interview. Not clear who the British equivalent is, bit of a gap in the market. Piers Morgan desperate for the comparison of course but no.
    Triggernomenty guys perhaps?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,519

    moonshine said:

    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
    Getting the LibDems into the news has been quite a challenge. Lots of non-political people don't hear or see anything related to them for weeks at a time.
    Perhaps I am being unfair and without his antics they’d have slipped even further.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,498
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting.

    Texas Net Favorables:

    Allred: +5%

    Walz: -2%
    Trump: -2%
    Vance: -4%
    Harris: -4%
    Cruz: -8%

    Public Policy Polling / Sept 26, 2024

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1840569612254974001

    As someone commenting on that thread says

    Allred may be colored but he was born in Texas and I expect those things at worse cancel themselves out and being local will usually significantly override the color issue.

    Also he's against Cruz who during local disasters flies to Mexico on holiday.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,441
    Is it the clever man's time ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,976
    moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    Oh behave, the only person that defenestrated Boris Johnson was Boris Johnson when he lied about putting a known sexual predator in a position of authority.
    By autumn 2024, Johnson would have ridden out partygate (and pinchergate). It’s highly unlikely Farage would have been motivated to leave the pub, in any case too distracted by the US election to bother with UK politics while Boris was still in charge.

    He would have wiped the floor with Starmer, possibly even building on his prior majority. Instead due to the quirks of FPTP, a small fraction of the electorate has hoisted socialism on the country.

    Not a comfortable thing to admit if you have an aversion to Johnson the man, but it’s hard to deny that he’d have won another majority.
    The same quirks of FPTP delivered Johnson's 2019 coalition of course.

    I admit to being surprised how quickly that coalition disintegrated. Covid was a factor, and a challenge to governments that were a lot more effective than Johnson's. But for the rest I think the blame for the collapse lies entirely with the man himself. Fundamentally he was unsuitable for the job, which should have been obvious to everyone.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,091

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    Agree. Once upon a time it was the job of the Speccie, The D and S Tel and Times to do the public side of thinking out the Tory future in respect of ideas, fundamental beliefs and so on. The lack of the Speccie doing this in recent years is a major gap. Telegraph a lost cause.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,130
    Sandpit said:

    moonshine said:

    eek said:

    I think the biggest crime is that over all those months all I still have is soundbites and platitudes from all the candidates.

    Still precious little evidence that many (any) have done any deep thinking or have a plan.

    I'm not hearing deep thinking or a plan from anyone - team Labour are exactly the same. The country is so spectacularly broken and the political class so captivated by the Treasury idiots that they can't see a way through other than "break it some more and blame the other side".

    What I want to hear from the Tory candidates is who can restore the Conservative Party, removing the batshit English Revolutionary Party we've had this last decade or so. A Tory party focused on business investment and value for money in public services would be a very welcome thing, regardless of political affiliation.

    You'll probably make some trite insult about me as always, but we do need the Tories back. You may disagree...
    In the interests of balance, the breakout star of July 4 didn't do it by deep policy thinking, but by cheerful photo ops.

    We all know what needs to be done (less consumption, more investment) but nobody knows how to be thanked for saying it.
    I would say he did it by bringing joy (and hope) into the election.

    The truth is that theUK (sans London) is one of the poorest regions in the Western World and investment needs to be focussed on it to get things going.

    What that investment looks like is the impossible question but it's why in the North Labour's opponents in the next election are going to be Reform rather than the Tories.
    Hold on a second.

    Swinson: 3.7m votes (11.6%)
    Davey: 3.5m votes (12.2%).

    Doesn’t especially feel like the joyful stunts achieved much, more the ruthless efficiency of the LD operation under FPTP, combined with the Tory vote being split.
    Getting the LibDems into the news has been quite a challenge. Lots of non-political people don't hear or see anything related to them for weeks at a time.
    They should find it easier now they are back to being the third-largest party in the Commons. They’ve had the SNP stealing their thunder since 2015.
    The danger is that our political coverage tends to give prominence to those loudly opposing the government. That's easy for the Tories - they are the official opposition and will oppose everything. Easy for Reform because they will reflexively oppose everything from the right, and do so loudly. Relatively easy even for the Greens and the lefty independents who will happily oppose everything from the left.

    For the Lib Dems it's tricky. Brexit is done so banging on about Europe isn't going to pay dividends, especially while the EU goes through an economic downturn. So they could end up opposing things they know will chime with local voters, and that risks plunging them down the NIMBY rabbit hole which will lose them even staunch loyalists like me.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,077
    Of the 4, Tugendhat and Jenrick are the best speakers and the most articulate so I expect them to get a boost from their presentations this week.

    Badenoch has clearly had a gaffe which won't help her either
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,531
    Mr. 43, Boris Johnson is a perfect example of democracy's critical flaw:

    governing and campaigning are entirely different skills. But a man talented at the former and not the latter will almost never be elected. A man skilled in the latter but not the former will be. Yet the long term impact on the nation is solely dependent on governing.

    I agree with you, probably obviously, on Johnson always being unsuitable. Conservative MPs signed their own medium (perhaps long) term death warrant by rejecting Hunt in favour of Johnson. He then hollowed out the party, culling those not on his wing, making it very difficult for them to compete on the centre ground.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,130
    HYUFD said:

    Of the 4, Tugendhat and Jenrick are the best speakers and the most articulate so I expect them to get a boost from their presentations this week.

    Badenoch has clearly had a gaffe which won't help her either

    Who's the best at behind the scenes schmoozing? After all there are so few MPs now that I'd have thought personal lobbying would have a much more important function than in previous elections.

    I would guess the avuncular Cleverly is best at that sort of thing, and Kemi worst, but you will probably know best.

    I'm just up there for the day tomorrow so unlikely to witness any of the interesting backroom stuff sadly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,077
    Fishing said:

    Scott_xP said:

    moonshine said:

    FPT abridged

    Feels to me like Tory MPs still haven’t learnt their lesson. Members (and then the electorate) decisively chose Johnson, and utterly rejected Jeremy Hunt. Johnson casually defenestrated by MPs. Members decisively choose Truss, utterly rejecting Sunak. Tory MPs think it a good idea to instead fight the election with a duo of Sunak and Hunt.

    If this most “sophisticated” electorate think it wise to keep her name off the ballot, they deserve everything coming to them.

    If they have learned anything, it is that they should never have put BoZo or Truss to the members
    Yes what did Boris ever do for the Conservative Party except win a large majority for the first time in three decades and implement the largest popular vote for anything in UK history?

    I didn't particularly like Boris in many ways myself but both of those needed charisma and Hunt would I imagine have failed spectacularly at both.
    Indeed, Hunt would have failed to get a majority against Corbyn any more than May did
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,531
    Excitingly, there are two (largely overlapping) yellow weather warnings here. A day full of rain ahead.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,050

    That's one ugly beauty parade...

    A little harsh. Kemi is easy on the eye, and both Hunt and Cleverly are above-averagely handsome middle aged men. Even Jenrick is no uglier than the averagr politician of 20 years ago.
    Unless... the fact that I am now of these people's generation means I have entirely different standards... which means to today's 20 somethings I probably look qualitatively no different to how my generation thought William Hague ot Tony Blair looked.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,896
    edited 8:20AM
    Good morning everyone, and thank-you for the header.

    Does the second place person get a £10 prize?

    FPT I think:
    HYUFD said:

    'British Anglican Catholic priest and conservative commentator Calvin Robinson issued a stark warning to Americans about the direction he sees the U.S. could be heading.

    "Please don't do what we did," he warned Americans in an interview with The Christian Post. "Please don't just sit back and let the liberals deteriorate the rest of everything that you know and love."

    Robinson, who recently moved to the U.S. to run a full-time parish ministry in Michigan, argued that spiritual and political forces had undermined British and Christian values in his home country, and he sees the same trends happening in the United States as well.

    "Be careful. American culture is a fantastic culture. Hold on to it, promote it, encourage it. If you want to become multicultural and let other cultures in, that's something you have to consider. But do not give it up to the detriment of your own," he pleaded while talking to The Christian Post. '
    In an interview with Fox News Digital last year, Robinson said that liberalism was "the greatest threat to [Christianity]" currently....Robinson also believes far-left ideologies infiltrating The Church of England have worked to undermine the influence of Christianity in England.

    "The Church of England has become very liberal in terms of divorce, sex outside marriage, same-sex relationships, transgenderism," Robinson told the outlet. "And every time the Church tries to be more inclusive, it actually becomes more exclusive to Christianity and to Christian values, and more inclusive to worldly values and just further plummets that downward trajectory."

    "It's a great shame," he said.

    Robinson told The Christian Post he thinks America is on the same path in following these trends, but no matter what happens, he rests in trusting God is in control.
    "[L]iberalism is even more warped [than Islam]," he said, "in terms of taking something that sounds compassionate, sounds empathetic, but isn't actually fully true in order to get people to believe in it, such as, you know, trans queer theory, gender theory, critical race theory."

    Each of these radical liberal ideas "come from one place," he continued. "And it's really, I mean, we call it ‘neo–Marxism,’ but it's really communism, which we know is incompatible with the Christian faith because it is the work of the enemy… And so, we shouldn't let our guard down for communism. We certainly shouldn't let it for neo-Marxism, and therefore we should not let our guard down for liberalism."'
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/uk-priest-warns-americans-not-let-left-deteriorate-us-values

    Of interest to a few ( @HYUFD and @MrBedfordshire at least, I think), Calvin Robinson explaining his understanding of ecclesiology, priestly orders, intercommunion, orthodoxy, and ecumenism - from his website.
    https://www.calvinrobinson.com/p/ordained-to-priesthood-in-the-presbyteral

    Personally, I think his political and cultural judgements are way off, but I'm interested to hear his explanation of his position on these particular questions.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,493
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, and thank-you for the header.

    Does the second place person get a £10 prize?

    FPT I think:

    HYUFD said:

    'British Anglican Catholic priest and conservative commentator Calvin Robinson issued a stark warning to Americans about the direction he sees the U.S. could be heading.

    "Please don't do what we did," he warned Americans in an interview with The Christian Post. "Please don't just sit back and let the liberals deteriorate the rest of everything that you know and love."

    Robinson, who recently moved to the U.S. to run a full-time parish ministry in Michigan, argued that spiritual and political forces had undermined British and Christian values in his home country, and he sees the same trends happening in the United States as well.

    "Be careful. American culture is a fantastic culture. Hold on to it, promote it, encourage it. If you want to become multicultural and let other cultures in, that's something you have to consider. But do not give it up to the detriment of your own," he pleaded while talking to The Christian Post. '
    In an interview with Fox News Digital last year, Robinson said that liberalism was "the greatest threat to [Christianity]" currently....Robinson also believes far-left ideologies infiltrating The Church of England have worked to undermine the influence of Christianity in England.

    "The Church of England has become very liberal in terms of divorce, sex outside marriage, same-sex relationships, transgenderism," Robinson told the outlet. "And every time the Church tries to be more inclusive, it actually becomes more exclusive to Christianity and to Christian values, and more inclusive to worldly values and just further plummets that downward trajectory."

    "It's a great shame," he said.

    Robinson told The Christian Post he thinks America is on the same path in following these trends, but no matter what happens, he rests in trusting God is in control.
    "[L]iberalism is even more warped [than Islam]," he said, "in terms of taking something that sounds compassionate, sounds empathetic, but isn't actually fully true in order to get people to believe in it, such as, you know, trans queer theory, gender theory, critical race theory."

    Each of these radical liberal ideas "come from one place," he continued. "And it's really, I mean, we call it ‘neo–Marxism,’ but it's really communism, which we know is incompatible with the Christian faith because it is the work of the enemy… And so, we shouldn't let our guard down for communism. We certainly shouldn't let it for neo-Marxism, and therefore we should not let our guard down for liberalism."'
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/uk-priest-warns-americans-not-let-left-deteriorate-us-values

    Of interest to a few ( @HYUFD and @MrBedfordshire at least, I think), Calvin Robinson explaining his understanding of ecclesiology, priestly orders, intercommunion, orthodoxy, and ecumenism - from his website.
    https://www.calvinrobinson.com/p/ordained-to-priesthood-in-the-presbyteral

    Personally, I think his political and cultural judgements are way off, but I'm interested to hear his explanation of his position on these particular questions.
    Robinson is one of the many Christians who preach the bible whilst ignoring Christ.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,077

    I sense Strides MPs may divide quite evenly between Cleverly and Tugendhat and some will probably go to Jenrick too (weird patterns) so unless there's a big event or a miracle it does look like Kemi v Jenrick

    Highly unlikely. Stride's votes will mainly go to Cleverly and Tugendhat.

    Then whichever of Cleverly or Tugendhat is knocked out will send their votes to the other.

    So it will almost certainly be Jenrick and Tugendhat or Cleverly Tory MPs send to the members.

    Badenoch lost this race when she lost most of the ERG right to Jenrick. Much as Portillo lost in 2001 when he lost the Thatcherite right to IDS while the One Nation candidate remained Clarke and Mordaunt lost in 2022 when she lost the ERG right to Truss who ended up in the last two with Sunak
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,130

    Excitingly, there are two (largely overlapping) yellow weather warnings here. A day full of rain ahead.

    I've become so accustomed to the rainy season starting in mid October in recent years that this September deluge is rather disconcerting. Last time we had something similar was 2019.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,095

    Mr. 43, Boris Johnson is a perfect example of democracy's critical flaw:

    governing and campaigning are entirely different skills. But a man talented at the former and not the latter will almost never be elected. A man skilled in the latter but not the former will be. Yet the long term impact on the nation is solely dependent on governing.

    Isn't the theory of the British system that we put the people skilled at governing into the civil service? :-)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,375
    edited 8:25AM

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone, and thank-you for the header.

    Does the second place person get a £10 prize?

    FPT I think:

    HYUFD said:

    'British Anglican Catholic priest and conservative commentator Calvin Robinson issued a stark warning to Americans about the direction he sees the U.S. could be heading.

    "Please don't do what we did," he warned Americans in an interview with The Christian Post. "Please don't just sit back and let the liberals deteriorate the rest of everything that you know and love."

    Robinson, who recently moved to the U.S. to run a full-time parish ministry in Michigan, argued that spiritual and political forces had undermined British and Christian values in his home country, and he sees the same trends happening in the United States as well.

    "Be careful. American culture is a fantastic culture. Hold on to it, promote it, encourage it. If you want to become multicultural and let other cultures in, that's something you have to consider. But do not give it up to the detriment of your own," he pleaded while talking to The Christian Post. '
    In an interview with Fox News Digital last year, Robinson said that liberalism was "the greatest threat to [Christianity]" currently....Robinson also believes far-left ideologies infiltrating The Church of England have worked to undermine the influence of Christianity in England.

    "The Church of England has become very liberal in terms of divorce, sex outside marriage, same-sex relationships, transgenderism," Robinson told the outlet. "And every time the Church tries to be more inclusive, it actually becomes more exclusive to Christianity and to Christian values, and more inclusive to worldly values and just further plummets that downward trajectory."

    "It's a great shame," he said.

    Robinson told The Christian Post he thinks America is on the same path in following these trends, but no matter what happens, he rests in trusting God is in control.
    "[L]iberalism is even more warped [than Islam]," he said, "in terms of taking something that sounds compassionate, sounds empathetic, but isn't actually fully true in order to get people to believe in it, such as, you know, trans queer theory, gender theory, critical race theory."

    Each of these radical liberal ideas "come from one place," he continued. "And it's really, I mean, we call it ‘neo–Marxism,’ but it's really communism, which we know is incompatible with the Christian faith because it is the work of the enemy… And so, we shouldn't let our guard down for communism. We certainly shouldn't let it for neo-Marxism, and therefore we should not let our guard down for liberalism."'
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/uk-priest-warns-americans-not-let-left-deteriorate-us-values

    Of interest to a few ( @HYUFD and @MrBedfordshire at least, I think), Calvin Robinson explaining his understanding of ecclesiology, priestly orders, intercommunion, orthodoxy, and ecumenism - from his website.
    https://www.calvinrobinson.com/p/ordained-to-priesthood-in-the-presbyteral

    Personally, I think his political and cultural judgements are way off, but I'm interested to hear his explanation of his position on these particular questions.
    Robinson is one of the many Christians who preach the bible whilst ignoring Christ.
    Given that he’s just moved to the US, he’s probably about 12 months away from asking his online ‘congregation’ to buy him a private jet.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,515
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:
    How many members does the party now have ?
    Shrivelling (the number rather than the members of course) in Scotland. I read that in the 90s the SCons had a membership of over 30k, mind-blowing in a decade when they returned zero MPs.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/24614945.scottish-conservatives-fewer-members-alba-party/
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,910
    Stormy waters ahead for Harris .

    The east and Gulf coast dockworkers strike is due to start tomorrow . The GOP are already blaming Biden and Harris and the strike could have a huge impact on the economy .

    Biden is reluctant to use the Taft-Hartley Act to force a cooling off period as that would be seen as anti-union . Much depends on how long the strike lasts for .

    If you want a Harris win then start praying for a quick resolution to the strike .
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,633
    Interesting proposal

    Robert Jenrick has said the Star of David should be displayed at every point of entry to the UK to show “we stand with Israel”.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/robert-jenrick-calls-for-star-of-david-at-every-point-of-entry-to-the-uk/ar-AA1rs8J1?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4d3a85adf87341b8b1c1675f24272084&ei=9
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,910
    Taz said:

    Interesting proposal

    Robert Jenrick has said the Star of David should be displayed at every point of entry to the UK to show “we stand with Israel”.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/robert-jenrick-calls-for-star-of-david-at-every-point-of-entry-to-the-uk/ar-AA1rs8J1?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4d3a85adf87341b8b1c1675f24272084&ei=9

    Jeez pass me the sick bag . He really is a moron .
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,522
    I suspect that Badenoch has -probably- missed out on the final two now. Slight chance she squeezes in at the expense of Cleverly / Tugendhat.

    This one might be a good contest to lose though.
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