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The Blob – politicalbetting.com

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  • Another example of the Establishment / the Blob if you prefer which many of US will have seen, being as we are people who get involved with politics and sometimes elected to councils and or appointed to public bodies.

    When a council is in no over all control or, when a public body is "impartial", who does the day to day running ? The council officers. In many ways the officers love it. They also love it when the council has "right on" leadership. It is a hell of a lot easier to put in hamster / hedgehog crossings than resurfacing the road or altering the M6 so J37 doesn't kill 1 or 2 people every year. Lets declare a climate emergency and have a group hug about it. Lets spend £300k warning people about the A684 being a bendy road - much better than straightening out the worst bends. Lets not worry about the bridge that has been closed over the Lune making the local population take a six mile detour twice a day. No lets put a nice shiny foot bridge over the Kent in Kendal within 100 yds of an existing bridge both up and down stream.

    In many ways that is what Yes Minister was really parodying. Also, most councillors don't last two full terms so they really don't know what they are doing.

    It is NOT the fault of the officers, although I have seen plenty who do take the piss. But it is a lack of REAL Leadership. It is going through the hoops, just like Starmer is doing and will do until someone has the balls to tell him his time is up. Next Wednesday perhaps ?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,979
    edited September 2024
    No, I've thought about it and decided that there's no such thing as The Blob: it's merely a fictional Behemoth invented by a generation of incapable Tory politicians to mask their many failings. That's the most plausible explanation.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,516

    No, I've thought about it and decided that there's no such things as The Blob: it's merely a fictional Behemoth invented by a generation of incapable Tory politicians to mask their many failings. That's the most plausible explanation.

    Was it Blunkett who blethered on about the 'forces of conservatism?'
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,668
    Sandpit said:

    LOL. There’s a very long history of FBI agents being involved in infiltrating protest groups, dating back to the Civil Rights movement.

    Here’s the LA Times celebrating that record numbers of new citizens can now vote. The url tells the story. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-09-26/with-an-election-looming-the-u-s-is-approving-citizenship-applications-at-the-fastest-speed-in-years
    The FBI does have a long history. There is no credible evidence that there were FBI agitators at Jan 6.

    I mean this in the very best way: your policy of watching diverse views online is leading you to start believing MAGA conspiracies. You are being sucked into lies. You are watching people with kooky views, many of whom are repeating Russian propaganda (be it unwittingly or wittingly). This isn't going to be good for your betting positions, nor is it going to be good for your social relationships with the bulk of people who still live in reality.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,370
    Sandpit said:

    Clearly it’s important to keep expertise in areas like energy and transport, where disasters can happen when things go wrong. That doesn’t mean that entire departments such as education can’t be scrapped in their entirety.
    Are we discussing the US or the UK?

    If the US, it is worth remembering that - in total - for a country of more than 300 million people, it employs... checks... 4,400 people in total.

    If the UK, are you planning on returning power to schools themselves (every school is independent), or to councils?

    In the UK, you do - I presume - want to retain some degree of control over national qualifications? (I.e. a school can't just say "this is a GCSE?") So, you will need adminstration around qualifications, and about ensuring that bogus educational establishments are shutdown.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,668

    This is the most interesting part of the discussion - how does it change, because it must. That's a lot harder than diagnosing the problem.

    How it must change, I think, is by behaviourism. Reward good behaviour, and punish undesirable behaviour. An elected Government must legislate to claw back the power to enforce the will of Ministers on the administration, including:

    *The power to hire, promote and fire
    *The power to approve or disapprove all training received by civil servants
    *The power to decide who gets honours and titles

    As a bare minimum.

    The power to decide who gets honours and titles is a path that leads to honours and titles being handed out for political donations.

    Ministers do not have the time to micromanage the civil service.
  • On this side of the Atlantic - and Pacific - the Blob was born and nurtured under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, both in reality (sorta) and rhetoric (lotta).

    Both due to rapid expansion of US federal government, which until 1933 played a limited role in lives of most Americans, aside from the Post Office Department.

    One prominent feature of early Blobism, which soon leapt across the pond AND still thrives today, was the rise & rule of the Acronym "alphabet soup" of programs, agencies, commissions, bureaus, etc., etc. created, maintained and sustained in ever-increasing diversity (!), complexity and significance.

    Some of these can still be seen, carved in stone and displayed on numerous New Deal infrastructure projects and other public works from sea to shinging sea.

    For example, the swimming pool in my small hometown was built in 1930s thanks to PWA = Public Works Administration. Which was quite different and distinct from WPA = Works Progress Administration.

    PWA being run under aspices of FDR's Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes, on a matching funds basis, with federal dollars matching (and often exceeding) state & local government spending with high standards for approval, bidding and compliance.

    The more famous WPA was run by another in FDR's inner circle, Harry Hopkins for the express purpose creating AND funding jobs for individuals, families, communities hardest hit by the Great Depression. Standards here were looser (to put it mildly); note that HH is credited with the much-quoted (especially by Republicans) remark:

    "We will tax and tax, and spend and spend . . . and elect and elect."
  • No, I've thought about it and decided that there's no such thing as The Blob: it's merely a fictional Behemoth invented by a generation of incapable Tory politicians to mask their many failings. That's the most plausible explanation.

    What is the nature of your denial? You can't deny that it exists, because the massive growth of the state and its related institutions is a matter of payroll. Are you denying that it seeks to implement its own agenda, opposing and frustrating the agenda of elected Governments when the two are misaligned? That seems, well, an interesting perspective.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,668
    Fishing said:

    If the IRA had launched 9,300 rockets in a year into British towns and cities displacing around 1% of our population as Hezbollah has with Israel I doubt we'd have put up with them to the extent that we did.

    I think even Corbyn and McDonnell might have thought twice about backing them then.
    In this scenario, were we continually building new settlements across the island of Ireland and bullying out the local population?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,516
    rcs1000 said:

    Are we discussing the US or the UK?

    If the US, it is worth remembering that - in total - for a country of more than 300 million people, it employs... checks... 4,400 people in total.

    If the UK, are you planning on returning power to schools themselves (every school is independent), or to councils?

    In the UK, you do - I presume - want to retain some degree of control over national qualifications? (I.e. a school can't just say "this is a GCSE?") So, you will need adminstration around qualifications, and about ensuring that bogus educational establishments are shutdown.
    Does that mean we should shut down OFQUAL? After all, they're the most bogus of all educational establishments...
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,262
    Four unrelated thoughts: First, and most important, the Blob is a pretty good movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob
    (For a cheap thriller, that is. And I see a famous scientist agrees with me.)

    Second, in the US, teacher's unions are often the biggest obstacles to reform, not the education bureacracies, in both states and cities. For example, they might make it hard to hire math teachers -- who actually know math, because you would have to pay the math teachers more than other teachers. (For the record: I briefly belonged to a teacher's union; many of my relatives belonged for far longer.)

    Third, a related idea to the Blob in the US, is the "Iron Triangle", which also explains some patterns -- partially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_triangle_(US_politics)

    Fourth, FDR lamented the difficulty of changing bureacracies, once saying something like this: The State Department is like a pillow. You hit it again and again, and at the end it is the same as it was in the beginning. But the State Department is nothing, as compared to the Navy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,516

    Four unrelated thoughts: First, and most important, the Blob is a pretty good movie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blob
    (For a cheap thriller, that is. And I see a famous scientist agrees with me.)

    Second, in the US, teacher's unions are often the biggest obstacles to reform, not the education bureacracies, in both states and cities. For example, they might make it hard to hire math teachers -- who actually know math, because you would have to pay the math teachers more than other teachers. (For the record: I briefly belonged to a teacher's union; many of my relatives belonged for far longer.)

    Third, a related idea to the Blob in the US, is the "Iron Triangle", which also explains some patterns -- partially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_triangle_(US_politics)

    Fourth, FDR lamented the difficulty of changing bureacracies, once saying something like this: The State Department is like a pillow. You hit it again and again, and at the end it is the same as it was in the beginning. But the State Department is nothing, as compared to the Navy.

    Why is the Navy bad for government systems?

    It's full of destroyers.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,668
    I've just had a leaflet through the door. It looks like an envelope and says in big letters:

    NEW HEATING BILL
    Do not ignore

    You can guess what it actually is. A Conservative Party leaflet about how their MPs have voted against the Winter Fuel Payment for pensioners being restricted. I like to think such bogus tactics are ineffective. Such a misdirection hasn't made me feel any more positive towards the party.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,370
    ydoethur said:

    Does that mean we should shut down OFQUAL? After all, they're the most bogus of all educational establishments...
    No no no.

    We just need OfQualOfQual. This will be the regulatory body that checks that OfQual is appropriately qualified to opine on whether the people awarding qualifications are appropriately qualified.

    In time we will probably also need OfQualOfQualOfQual, but that's for another day.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Are we discussing the US or the UK?

    If the US, it is worth remembering that - in total - for a country of more than 300 million people, it employs... checks... 4,400 people in total.

    If the UK, are you planning on returning power to schools themselves (every school is independent), or to councils?

    In the UK, you do - I presume - want to retain some degree of control over national qualifications? (I.e. a school can't just say "this is a GCSE?") So, you will need adminstration around qualifications, and about ensuring that bogus educational establishments are shutdown.
    Silly questions. People like Ramaswarmy haven't thought out the answers. It's just rich people wanting to keep more money to themselves, to the advantage of rich people. How it affects the poorer in society is of little interest to them.

    Making money is what matters to them, and that includes lowering the taxes *they* pay. They don't give a damn about society.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,413
    IanB2 said:

    After yesterday’s near-hurricane conditions, it’s an almost unreal and very serene start to today. Warm, sunny, no wind at all. Helene has turned west and is fizzling out over land, and I am now three hundred miles to the east. The only sign of yesterday’s turmoil is the extremely brown river here, and the occasional branch or lump of wood that slowly floats by.

    Both NC and TN have been hit bad, with the worst of the flooding there likely still to come. I hear that Asheville, where I breakfasted yesterday, still has its state of emergency and now has a twelve-hour curfew over the whole city after dark.



    @IanB2 so glad to hear that you are safe (and your dog of course) but overwhelmed by your earlier description of the devastation you managed to escape with the forecast of worse to come.
  • The power to decide who gets honours and titles is a path that leads to honours and titles being handed out for political donations.

    Ministers do not have the time to micromanage the civil service.
    None of what I've listed is micromanagement. These are simple questions.

    - Can all my staff go on xxxxx unconscious bias training course?
    - No.

    - Can we give the boss of this department who has studiously failed to implement Government manifesto commitments a promotion and a knighthood?
    - No.

    I am talking about giving the power of patronage and preferment in the civil service to ministers. They already have the power to give them to donors, so that wouldn't change.



  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    kinabalu said:

    I trust you're doing your bit over there, Ian, working on those undecideds.
    If you try and talk about the election to a stranger, you get the same reaction as if you’d just released a particularly loud and malodorous fart.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,262
    Off topic: rcs1000 should not miss this: https://xkcd.com/2991/
  • In this scenario, were we continually building new settlements across the island of Ireland and bullying out the local population?
    Isn't that now Sinn Fein's policy?
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 439
    edited September 2024
    Excellent piece from Tom Fletcher in the FT, on Lebanon/ME situation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099

    On this side of the Atlantic - and Pacific - the Blob was born and nurtured under Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, both in reality (sorta) and rhetoric (lotta).

    Both due to rapid expansion of US federal government, which until 1933 played a limited role in lives of most Americans, aside from the Post Office Department.

    One prominent feature of early Blobism, which soon leapt across the pond AND still thrives today, was the rise & rule of the Acronym "alphabet soup" of programs, agencies, commissions, bureaus, etc., etc. created, maintained and sustained in ever-increasing diversity (!), complexity and significance.

    Some of these can still be seen, carved in stone and displayed on numerous New Deal infrastructure projects and other public works from sea to shinging sea.

    For example, the swimming pool in my small hometown was built in 1930s thanks to PWA = Public Works Administration. Which was quite different and distinct from WPA = Works Progress Administration.

    PWA being run under aspices of FDR's Secretary of the Interior Harold Ickes, on a matching funds basis, with federal dollars matching (and often exceeding) state & local government spending with high standards for approval, bidding and compliance.

    The more famous WPA was run by another in FDR's inner circle, Harry Hopkins for the express purpose creating AND funding jobs for individuals, families, communities hardest hit by the Great Depression. Standards here were looser (to put it mildly); note that HH is credited with the much-quoted (especially by Republicans) remark:

    "We will tax and tax, and spend and spend . . . and elect and elect."

    Yet to get the New Deal done, FDR had to ride roughshod over what passed for the establishment at the time, and assumed executive powers that prior the presidency either hadn’t had or hadn’t used. Yes, it shaped the nature of postwar politics and the active state, as such a contrast to the failure of laissez faire
  • IanB2 said:


    If they were still alive, I’d be gulping it down…
    Really?

    I’m not sure I’d want to live for ever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,745

    Our blob worships the EU. Severing that umbilical cord by leaving seems to have traumatised senior civil servants and it seems obvious to me that they have been desperate to get us back in ever since. They will fail, especially because their tool (hehe) is Starmer. He hasn't got the political capital now to sign up for a library card, let alone get us back in to the single market.

    So they'll end up having to contend with Jenrick, possibly with Farage in tow.
    Yep, they now have the ultimate Remainery Blob Prime Minister, but precisely because he is Mr Blobby - cautious, unimaginative, clueless, hypocritical, intellectually quite lightweight (all quite common characteristic of Blob personae) - it turns out he is a shite prime minister. So they have screwed themselves

    All this on the day when a huge Brexit Benefit hoves into view

  • What is the nature of your denial? You can't deny that it exists, because the massive growth of the state and its related institutions is a matter of payroll. Are you denying that it seeks to implement its own agenda, opposing and frustrating the agenda of elected Governments when the two are misaligned? That seems, well, an interesting perspective.
    I was recently speaking with a guy who, until his retirement a few years ago, was a leading Whitehall civil servant. He was despairing becuase the Civil Service - its neutrality and its processes - is being increasingly corrupted by government hacks with a partisan agenda. The complete opposite of the 'Blob' phenomenon in fact. This makes perfect sense from what we know of the 'new' political class and the its behaviour.
  • In this scenario, were we continually building new settlements across the island of Ireland and bullying out the local population?
    Luckily the Plantations were several hundred years before any meaningful rocketry. A few pissed-of peasants with pikes and billhooks were easily dealt with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686
    IanB2 said:

    If you try and talk about the election to a stranger, you get the same reaction as if you’d just released a particularly loud and malodorous fart.
    That’s also one of the candidates.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,955
    Leon said:

    Yep, they now have the ultimate Remainery Blob Prime Minister, but precisely because he is Mr Blobby - cautious, unimaginative, clueless, hypocritical, intellectually quite lightweight (all quite common characteristic of Blob personae) - it turns out he is a shite prime minister. So they have screwed themselves

    All this on the day when a huge Brexit Benefit hoves into view

    The blob feeds on whatever makes it grow. It's been historically pro-EU because of all that lovely extra red tape and bureaucracy that requires more administrators.

    I wouldn't be surprised if we reach a point in a few years' time where we have so much home grown bureaucracy and red tape that losing some of that power to the EU would represent a diminution of the blob, therefore it will act against it.

    The blob does what is good for the blob. I don't think it's ideologically pro anything other than itself.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686
    This is possibly (?) the single most bonkers reply to a straight economic question Trump has yet come up with.
    (Listen to the clip for the full effect.)

    Question:,What actions will you take to ensure that our jobs stay in America?

    Trump: I was honored as the man of the year*. Maybe 20 years ago. The fake news heard about it and said, it never happened…

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1839817819070071073

    *He wasn’t, of course.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686
    Stereodog said:

    On topic but I hate the term blob because it's victim blaming. The inability of governments to push through their agenda is down to their own cowardice and confusion not because of civil service obstruction. I've worked in the Civil Service for years (so special pleading I guess) and I've never met a senior civil servant who is any way unwilling to do what the government wants. The problem is that governments ask the Civil Service to do incompatible things. "Cut your budget but maintain every single service you currently provide as we don't want any criticism from the 500 people it would affect if we withdraw it". "We believe in slimming down the state but we've just created a massive expansion of your powers because of some ill thought out legislation". Governments that have a clear agenda and the courage to accept the political consequences of carrying it out get things done.

    Legislation, of course, is the way they can actually be seen to be doing these incompatible things.
    Which goes some way to explaining the amount of crappy legislation on the books.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,793

    No, I've thought about it and decided that there's no such thing as The Blob: it's merely a fictional Behemoth invented by a generation of incapable Tory politicians to mask their many failings. That's the most plausible explanation.

    If it really has managed to thwart Tory politicians from implementing their bright ideas there's a lot to like there.
  • NEW THREAD

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,161
    Football at its illogical best. My team had 19 shots with 7 on target and 4 blocked. Our opponents had 5 shots with 2 on target. The result - 2-1 to them.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,161
    I am here at the moment - any
    guesses?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099

    I was recently speaking with a guy who, until his retirement a few years ago, was a leading Whitehall civil servant. He was despairing becuase the Civil Service - its neutrality and its processes - is being increasingly corrupted by government hacks with a partisan agenda. The complete opposite of the 'Blob' phenomenon in fact. This makes perfect sense from what we know of the 'new' political class and the its behaviour.
    And we should value our generally non-political civil service, judiciary, and associated bodies such as the Electoral and Boundary Commissions, since in the US very little is non-political nowadays and, my, aren’t they suffering because of it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    IanB2 said:

    I’ve been getting a lot of quality Harris stuff online in some of the states I’ve been in, so the Dems are using online and social media ads a lot as well. I’ve had personal appeals from everyone from Obama to Bernie Sanders, as well as a lot of locally focused stuff
    Always good to get feedback from people actually in the States. Hope you’re having a fun holiday despite the weather. Love the dog photos!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    edited September 2024
    edit
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    The FBI does have a long history. There is no credible evidence that there were FBI agitators at Jan 6.

    I mean this in the very best way: your policy of watching diverse views online is leading you to start believing MAGA conspiracies. You are being sucked into lies. You are watching people with kooky views, many of whom are repeating Russian propaganda (be it unwittingly or wittingly). This isn't going to be good for your betting positions, nor is it going to be good for your social relationships with the bulk of people who still live in reality.
    Don’t worry, I’m not going completely mad.

    I’m just trying to present a viewpoint of the Replublican campaign that few others here are espousing, which I think is important on a betting site. The vast majority of those here might think they’re mad/bad/crazy, but they are nonetheless polling in the high 40s nationwide and 50/50 in many of the swing States, representing increasingly mainstream opinions.

    Personally I’d be an independent if I were in the US, I find both camps way too extreme in their own way.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    rcs1000 said:

    Are we discussing the US or the UK?

    If the US, it is worth remembering that - in total - for a country of more than 300 million people, it employs... checks... 4,400 people in total.

    If the UK, are you planning on returning power to schools themselves (every school is independent), or to councils?

    In the UK, you do - I presume - want to retain some degree of control over national qualifications? (I.e. a school can't just say "this is a GCSE?") So, you will need adminstration around qualifications, and about ensuring that bogus educational establishments are shutdown.
    My comment was with regard to the US DoE, which does very little but employs a lot of people. The UK DfE is just as bad, as some of our resident educators will no doubt attest.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,806
    edited September 2024

    I was recently speaking with a guy who, until his retirement a few years ago, was a leading Whitehall civil servant. He was despairing becuase the Civil Service - its neutrality and its processes - is being increasingly corrupted by government hacks with a partisan agenda. The complete opposite of the 'Blob' phenomenon in fact. This makes perfect sense from what we know of the 'new' political class and the its behaviour.
    It might be delicately suggested to the person in question that Governments are meant to have a 'partisan agenda' - that's why we elect them.
  • IanB2 said:

    And we should value our generally non-political civil service, judiciary, and associated bodies such as the Electoral and Boundary Commissions, since in the US very little is non-political nowadays and, my, aren’t they suffering because of it.
    The point is that such organisations as the judiciary can no longer claim to be non-political when they make take it upon themselves to wade into the political sphere.

    As one example, it is not for The High Court to find Suella Braverman guilty of 'discrimination' because she decided not to implement 2 out of the 30 recommendations of a post-Windrush report that Priti Patel said she was going to implement when Home Secretary. The two recommendations (incidentally) were to strengthen the powers of an inspectorate (more blob) and to appoint a 'Migrant Commissioner' (new blob). And apparently Braverman had 'discriminated' by not doing that. Is it any wonder that we can't control our borders with the thicket of courts, inspectorates, quangos, the chattering media, and civil action groups growing ever denser and thornier by its own hand?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 24,263
    edited September 2024
    @Luckyguy1983, @Stereodog, @Jim_Miller, @SeaShantyIrish2, @kyf_100, @Richard_Tyndall, @JosiasJessop, @Cookie, @Leon, @A_View_From_Cumbria5, @Sandpit, @kinabalu, @Big_G_NorthWales, @DavidL, @Nigelb @NickPalmer, @CharlieShark, @kinabalu, @Anabobazina, @Barnesian, @darkage, @MaxPB, @Stuartinromford, @algarkirk, @FF43, @DecrepiterJohnL, @Jonathan, @Stocky, @FF43, @TimS, @Monksfield, @Foxy, @rcs1000, @ydoethur, @TimS, @edmundintokyo, @Sean_F, @bondegezou, @Taz, @Monksfield

    Thank you all for your responses, both pro and con. I cannot deal with all the points you raised, but some I've selected are as follows:

    THE NAME
    Some pointed out that the name was unhelpful, or by naming it created an unhelpful concept. Well, yes, but I can't write an article about a subject without naming it. Perhaps "The Administrative State" would be better

    EUROPE
    Europe was a notable omission (as was Green politics, which nobody noticed). This is a valid criticism. I couldn't squeeze it in for size reasons but I should have at least mentioned it.

    ELSEWHERE AND ELSEWHEN
    Some pointed out that you can trace it further back to the Indian Office, or to other countries like the New Deal. My memories of PJ O'Rourke meant I was aware of the latter but not the former. Thse are good points but I had to start it somewhere, apologies.

    TELEVISION
    The inclusion of "Yes Minister" was a mistake. As a fictional comedy show it just gave a hostage to fortune and it should have been removed. I note the mention of Vorlon v Shadows from "Babylon 5", and "A Very British Coup", two shows I adored. Being more obscure they would have been less well receieved than "Yes Minister", but I could have squeezed in a reference.

    LENGTH
    The limit on articles used to be 800 words, then Cyclefree introduced longer articles at 1,200 words and was teased for it, unjustly as it turned out. Then I think it was Ydoethur (apols if wrong) who did a 1,800 word article, and my article at 1827 words meets this limit. Unfortunately its lengths means that the latter points went unnoticed (nobody mentioned Project2025). I don't know how to cure this problem other than to take out some bits

    PRE-READERS
    LuckyGuy1983 makes valid points, but it would have helped if they had been done in his pre-read. The reason for pre-reading is to take out my obvious stupidities (kill your darlings), and ths has helped articles in the past - the "History of Gambling" article was 40% the size of its first draft and the better for it. I did ask for prereaders twice, but only one responded and didn't give feedback. Nevertheless the responsibility is mine (I'm the author!) and I'll change the extended cut accordingly.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 265

    So what? Alli is a Labour politician and a Labour donor. The fact that he donates to Labour is a truism.
    because he wants something in return. He's not just donating from the kindness of his heart.
This discussion has been closed.