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A basket of unfavourables – politicalbetting.com

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  • Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    That is a well-balanced comment. There is also a lot of built-in inefficiency. The DWP is funded by the Treasury based on how long we spend talking to unemployed people, many of whom are perfectly capable of finding their next job unaided. I think we should be paid based on getting more people into work, or maybe getting the benefit bill down, but that would put the Permanent Secretary's bonus at risk, so it won't happen. Management is comfortable with employing people and making them talk to unemployed people, but working out how to get people into work is beyond them.
    A friend got signed off sick, with significant mental health issues, going into 2008.

    He spent several years unemployed.

    As part of his recovery, he applied for jobs, pretty much every day. He told me that the lady monitoring his case was almost terrified the first time he came in, and gave her a printed copy of the spreadsheet of jobs applied for, result, follow up dates etc.
    The irony is that most employers, even in the lauded private sector, would run a mile from taking on mentally disturbed drug users with health issues. For some unemployed people, the application game really is just a game in which neither DWP nor claimant expects success.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    "Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches" - I thought we were told this was impossible?

    A question - what happened for previous PMs and Northern Ireland Secs?

    I don't think they were football fans like Starmer is. He supports Arsenal viscerally. It's a part of him. It's ridiculous but that's what supporting a football club is and it's a common affliction. But Starmer is not just anyone. He is the PM. He needs to ration the games he goes to and when he does go he needs to sit in the directors' box, as other politicians do. Yes, it's a pain. Yes, it means he can no longer go with his son to every game. But unfortunately for him this comes with the territory. It's what you sign up to when you become a national leader in a democracy.

    Maybe he thinks a) that ardent football support will gain him more brownie points with the electorate hence he is making a thing about it; or b) he believes that such rules shouldn't apply to him and PM though he may be, he is damn well going to do as he pleases.

    Otherwise your point is almost trivial in its self-evidential truth.
    My theory is that as a lawyer, Starmer thinks the rules, and laws, absolutely do apply to him.

    And the rules say he can take freebies but must declare them, so as a lawyer, he does take them and does (eventually) declare them, so that's fine. Obviously it's bad politics but Starmer is lawyer first and politician second, literally in his case.
    I think there's something in there, but I think there may also be a deeper and wider malaise. There's a vast number of well-paid, connected and unelected people in government, doing jobs with grand titles that might just be counting paperclips. Say, like the DPP. What if SKS is acting like this because it's the way it's always happened with him? Freebies and the like?

    Tickets to Glyndebourne or the Ashes; meals with 'friends' who pay for everything. Influence bought at every level.

    It'd explain a great deal; and I doubt any civil service guidelines are particularly well monitored.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,230

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    That is a well-balanced comment. There is also a lot of built-in inefficiency. The DWP is funded by the Treasury based on how long we spend talking to unemployed people, many of whom are perfectly capable of finding their next job unaided. I think we should be paid based on getting more people into work, or maybe getting the benefit bill down, but that would put the Permanent Secretary's bonus at risk, so it won't happen. Management is comfortable with employing people and making them talk to unemployed people, but working out how to get people into work is beyond them.
    Worse than that. As benefit recipients became seen as workshy leeches, performative cruelty became the order of the day, with claimants to be harried and sanctioned. Arrive on time and there's an hour wait but five minutes late and there's a fine of a day's benefits. Go to your local JobCentre. Those security guards did not used to be needed.
    Actually, the security guards are much less needed than they used to be. We are less combative.

    Some of our rules are fairly poor. However it is interesting to note how many people supposedly looking for work can't do a simple thing like turn up to an appointment on time or answer their phone ("I don't answer unknown/0800 numbers" - then what if an employer phones you?)

    I would say our clientele are about ⅓ people inbetween jobs, ⅓ long term benefit claimants and then about ⅓ variously struggling with the labour market, , neuro diverse, various levels of vulnerability who actually need our support in one way or another.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,233

    I still don’t really understand why Labour didn’t really grasp the media narrative over the summer and do some big set piece moments of positivity and change rather than focussing on the doom and gloom of the upcoming budget and how wrong everything is.

    I know Boris boosterism was derided but there is something in a leader being able to encourage, motivate and inspire the voters and Labour haven’t really been trying on that front.

    I think the truth is Starmer is just a misery. Pure and simple. A Rachel's even worse!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    “Average earnings growth in the whole of the private sector was 6.1% in the year to January, marginally down on 6.2% in the year to December. In the public sector, the rate of growth was 5.9% in the year to January, the same as the revised figure for the year to December.”

    https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/average-weekly-earnings
    Does that include pensions which are sod all in the private sector and a significant cost in the public ?
    Any pension contributions normally follow pay rises. If there has been a re-structure of the pensions, it probably won’t have been in a favourable direction. Lots of public sector pensions have gotten worse in recent years.

    It’s lazy nonsense to argue that public sector pay can forever keep falling further and further behind private sector because the pensions are better.
    I take it you work in the public sector.

    Here in the private we dont see it that way.
    Maybe if your reasoning skills were better, you’d have been able to get a job in the public sector!
    Funnily enough my skills worked out ok, In some of my jobs I even got paid more than Sue Gray but nowhere near the numbers of freebies as Starmer.
    Then why are you greedily moaning about public sector workers who get paid less than you and are going to end up on smaller pensions?
    Simple the country cant afford to pay its bills. You talk as if there is some kind of obligation to make sure public sector workers get whatever a pay body recommends. Why should there be ? Private sector workers over the last two decades also deserve bigger pay rises but didnt get them because their companies couldnt afford it. On pensions the private sector workers have been robbed.

    The UK is a poor country pretending its still a rich one and until we get back in to creating wealth we will all suffer.

    Under Tory rule, public sector workers frequently got less than pay body recommendations. Public sector pay fell significantly compared to private sector work. You are getting paid a lot of money. If you were being paid more than Sue Gray, that's more than almost any public sector worker ever gets. Yet you still begrudge public sector workers being paid a reasonable wage?

    Yes, we need to create wealth. I've spent part of this week helping a tech start-up company: that creates wealth. I've spent part of this week on education: that creates wealth. I know people who work in the NHS. Helping sick people get back into work: that creates wealth. I know someone who works for the FCO on emergency passport replacements: that might seem mundane, but someone abroad who loses their passport or has it stolen, they're probably not creating wealth until they can get a replacement sorted.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    GIN1138 said:

    I still don’t really understand why Labour didn’t really grasp the media narrative over the summer and do some big set piece moments of positivity and change rather than focussing on the doom and gloom of the upcoming budget and how wrong everything is.

    I know Boris boosterism was derided but there is something in a leader being able to encourage, motivate and inspire the voters and Labour haven’t really been trying on that front.

    I think the truth is Starmer is just a misery. Pure and simple. A Rachel's even worse!
    Another thing I pointed out before the GE. SKS doesn't do positive, and that will be a big problem for him.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,575
    Pulpstar said:

    OT : The question is - How much of the available 10% Harris can pick up.

    45% is nailed on for the Dems
    45% is nailed on for the Republicans.

    At least in the polling

    The Democrats problem is that more of that 45% is wasted in an excess of votes in California (And New York to a lesser degree) being both the largest state and extremely safe Democrat whereas the GOP's largest states of TX and FL don't have particularly excessive numerical margins for the Republicans. That is essentially the source of the GOP EC bias.
    But it means that TX and FL are vulnerable to a Democrat challenge whereas CA and NY are safe.. Trump's lead is currently 6% in TX and only 4% in FL. Harris's lead in CA is 25% and in NY 12%.

    That's the other side of the coin. GOP has an EC bias but Trump has to watch his back and spread his resources.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486
    Selebian said:

    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    If you take the NHS, it would benefit hugely from one central IT system that worked*. As it is, you have different providers for primary care (at least three different large providers), hospitals, sometimes intensive care units etc. A lot of things are sent by email and then re-entered in a different system (e.g. hospital consultant -> GP communication).

    This is obvious in research, where it's not even real time and so some collation takes place, e.g. we can get, in England:
    • Hospital data based on data submitted for payments
    • Primary care, for two of the large providers, separately, not linkable
    • Primary care, through openSAFELY, for one of the same providers and the remaining one, again not linked
    • Limited linkage of hospital data with one of those primary care providers
    • Beyond very basics, intensive care unit data from three different organisations, depending on whether neonatal, paediatric or adult)
    • Data on prescriptions issued by GPs, but not by hospitals
    • Data on prescriptions dispensed by community pharmacies, but not by hospitals
    The largest part of most research projects is accessing these data and then linking them. It's pretty much as fragmented, or more so, in actual care, I think.
    In Scotland it's a bit better as there is at least an identifier (CHI) that exists across most of these data and is more reliable than e.g. NHS numbers. In Wales, research data are much more integrated in SAIL. Even there though, we did a study in Wales and were never able to get England hospital data linked in (it's not unusual for residents of Wales to end up in England hospitals, particularly for more specialist things, where e.g. Liverpool might be closer than Cardiff).

    But, anyway. Lots of people sending emails (even letters!), copying data from one place to another, taking time and making mistakes that impact on care.

    *this the sticking point of course - and probably the end of career for whichever minister pushes it :disappointed: They could even still have the patchwork of providers if all the systems could talk to each other automatically.
    Labour tried the big top-down IT approach with NPfIT and CfH. They didn't work. That's left the system, I suggest, with a fear of trying again, so we have this bottom-up approach. Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses. But, yes, we have PhD students spending months on data access for data that I often suspect has significant biases in it.
    What the NHS needs is a data ‘framework’, that allows multiple suppliers to compete for contracts, rather than a massive national project which will inevitably overrun and lead to dependence on one supplier.
    Yes, my reference to centralised IT was a bit tongue in cheek as the * explanation hopefully made clear.

    Agreed data standards would solve it, sure. At present, the different primary care database providers have different fields with different names, which make combining them tricky (mapping would be easy enough if just different field names, but what is recorded fundamentally differs). Hospitals differ completely from that and use a completely different coding system for diagnoses, for example.

    There's no reason why one couldn't, going forward, define a data framework and give all providers X years to be compliant, plus and automated messaging system that enables relevant data entered in a hospital to be mirrored to the primary care record and the GP alerted if necessary.
    It’s actually one of the massive advantages of the NHS, that they can centrally define a national data framework and have everyone conform to it. It could become a global model, and if I was the head of IT of the NHS I would want to get a patent on that framework.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881
    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    If you take the NHS, it would benefit hugely from one central IT system that worked*. As it is, you have different providers for primary care (at least three different large providers), hospitals, sometimes intensive care units etc. A lot of things are sent by email and then re-entered in a different system (e.g. hospital consultant -> GP communication).

    This is obvious in research, where it's not even real time and so some collation takes place, e.g. we can get, in England:
    • Hospital data based on data submitted for payments
    • Primary care, for two of the large providers, separately, not linkable
    • Primary care, through openSAFELY, for one of the same providers and the remaining one, again not linked
    • Limited linkage of hospital data with one of those primary care providers
    • Beyond very basics, intensive care unit data from three different organisations, depending on whether neonatal, paediatric or adult)
    • Data on prescriptions issued by GPs, but not by hospitals
    • Data on prescriptions dispensed by community pharmacies, but not by hospitals
    The largest part of most research projects is accessing these data and then linking them. It's pretty much as fragmented, or more so, in actual care, I think.
    In Scotland it's a bit better as there is at least an identifier (CHI) that exists across most of these data and is more reliable than e.g. NHS numbers. In Wales, research data are much more integrated in SAIL. Even there though, we did a study in Wales and were never able to get England hospital data linked in (it's not unusual for residents of Wales to end up in England hospitals, particularly for more specialist things, where e.g. Liverpool might be closer than Cardiff).

    But, anyway. Lots of people sending emails (even letters!), copying data from one place to another, taking time and making mistakes that impact on care.

    *this the sticking point of course - and probably the end of career for whichever minister pushes it :disappointed: They could even still have the patchwork of providers if all the systems could talk to each other automatically.
    Labour tried the big top-down IT approach with NPfIT and CfH. They didn't work. That's left the system, I suggest, with a fear of trying again, so we have this bottom-up approach. Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses. But, yes, we have PhD students spending months on data access for data that I often suspect has significant biases in it.
    What the NHS needs is a data ‘framework’, that allows multiple suppliers to compete for contracts, rather than a massive national project which will inevitably overrun and lead to dependence on one supplier.
    At one point a few years back, that seemed to be what NHS Digital was pushing for, but then they moved back to accepting the existing oligopoly in EHRs. And then the then government merged NHS Digital, NHS X and HEE into NHS England with 40% staff cuts, and any idea of people focusing on long-term strategy rather than just re-applying for their own jobs went out the window.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    That is a well-balanced comment. There is also a lot of built-in inefficiency. The DWP is funded by the Treasury based on how long we spend talking to unemployed people, many of whom are perfectly capable of finding their next job unaided. I think we should be paid based on getting more people into work, or maybe getting the benefit bill down, but that would put the Permanent Secretary's bonus at risk, so it won't happen. Management is comfortable with employing people and making them talk to unemployed people, but working out how to get people into work is beyond them.
    A friend got signed off sick, with significant mental health issues, going into 2008.

    He spent several years unemployed.

    As part of his recovery, he applied for jobs, pretty much every day. He told me that the lady monitoring his case was almost terrified the first time he came in, and gave her a printed copy of the spreadsheet of jobs applied for, result, follow up dates etc.
    The irony is that most employers, even in the lauded private sector, would run a mile from taking on mentally disturbed drug users with health issues. For some unemployed people, the application game really is just a game in which neither DWP nor claimant expects success.
    He eventually found a job. And rebuilt his career. He did so by being honest - it turned out that the guy who hired him had gone through a very similar experience and had a coffee mug saying "Non Bis In Idem".

    His friends supported him for those years. I used to visit and buy groceries - he was on a get-healthy diet, as part of his regimen and i bought things like lentils by the 20 Kg sack.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last night's By Elections

    Hartlepool SKS Party (21.9%) Reform +39.9% swing 30.7% SKS to Reform
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Do you have a dog? If so, set *all* the alarms at home.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last nights By Elections

    Bromsgrove SKS Party (29.2%) LD +24.9% Swing SKS to LD 27.1%
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Do you have a dog? If so, set *all* the alarms at home.
    Don't have a dog or an alarm. Don't fucking need either. 🔫
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931

    Sandpit said:

    Selebian said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    But what we are seeing is Labour's broken business model in action: it ALWAYS loads more on to the private sector to pay for the public sector than is sustainable.

    Then, when they inevitably get booted out for mismanaging the economy, we will be treated to the orchestrated outrage of "Tory cuts!". No. Tory economic sanity, Labour economic profligacy. The cycle continues as it has for decades.
    To actually reduce the cost of the pubic sector requires productivity increases.

    Productivity increases only come from process change and investment in technology that allows people to do more work for less effort.

    The later is how we got from *everyone* working in agriculture to a 1%. Which means that, say, @Foxy can waste his time saving lives, rather than harvesting the wheat with a hand held sickle.

    From what I've seen of the public sector, it is a curates egg. Some parts are quite modern. Much is layers of antiquated behaviours and systems, piled onto numerous, incompatible IT systems that just mimic practises that were mentioned in the Pickwick Papers.

    The result is very uneven work loading - often people working very hard to do things that are not actually what they want to be doing. Or really need to be doing. But telling your boss that "I'm not doing the useless stuff" is a good way to fire yourself. And outside

    What we need is a continuous, low level, small scale, reworking of the system.
    If you take the NHS, it would benefit hugely from one central IT system that worked*. As it is, you have different providers for primary care (at least three different large providers), hospitals, sometimes intensive care units etc. A lot of things are sent by email and then re-entered in a different system (e.g. hospital consultant -> GP communication).

    This is obvious in research, where it's not even real time and so some collation takes place, e.g. we can get, in England:
    • Hospital data based on data submitted for payments
    • Primary care, for two of the large providers, separately, not linkable
    • Primary care, through openSAFELY, for one of the same providers and the remaining one, again not linked
    • Limited linkage of hospital data with one of those primary care providers
    • Beyond very basics, intensive care unit data from three different organisations, depending on whether neonatal, paediatric or adult)
    • Data on prescriptions issued by GPs, but not by hospitals
    • Data on prescriptions dispensed by community pharmacies, but not by hospitals
    The largest part of most research projects is accessing these data and then linking them. It's pretty much as fragmented, or more so, in actual care, I think.
    In Scotland it's a bit better as there is at least an identifier (CHI) that exists across most of these data and is more reliable than e.g. NHS numbers. In Wales, research data are much more integrated in SAIL. Even there though, we did a study in Wales and were never able to get England hospital data linked in (it's not unusual for residents of Wales to end up in England hospitals, particularly for more specialist things, where e.g. Liverpool might be closer than Cardiff).

    But, anyway. Lots of people sending emails (even letters!), copying data from one place to another, taking time and making mistakes that impact on care.

    *this the sticking point of course - and probably the end of career for whichever minister pushes it :disappointed: They could even still have the patchwork of providers if all the systems could talk to each other automatically.
    Labour tried the big top-down IT approach with NPfIT and CfH. They didn't work. That's left the system, I suggest, with a fear of trying again, so we have this bottom-up approach. Both approaches have strengths and weaknesses. But, yes, we have PhD students spending months on data access for data that I often suspect has significant biases in it.
    What the NHS needs is a data ‘framework’, that allows multiple suppliers to compete for contracts, rather than a massive national project which will inevitably overrun and lead to dependence on one supplier.
    At one point a few years back, that seemed to be what NHS Digital was pushing for, but then they moved back to accepting the existing oligopoly in EHRs. And then the then government merged NHS Digital, NHS X and HEE into NHS England with 40% staff cuts, and any idea of people focusing on long-term strategy rather than just re-applying for their own jobs went out the window.
    This is because hiring nurses and doctors is politically positive.

    Spending money on improvements will probably only be noticeable after the election.

    So at the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford, in one building, there is often only 1 lift working out of 6.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,611
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Neither candidate would be good for the USA imho
    but Trump is impossible so it has to be Harris.

    If I were American I would vote for neither Trump nor Harris but write in Nikki Haley
    Is there a write in facility on voting machines ?
    https://www.usa.gov/write-in-candidates
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,403
    edited September 20
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    There's good money in trainers. My lad has a good eye, scours ebay and generally makes a profit.
    With the Gallagher brothers out of retirement for a massive payday, retro Adidas trainers will be in big demand.
    Squirt them with Dettol and get them on Facebook Marketplace.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%
  • Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    “Average earnings growth in the whole of the private sector was 6.1% in the year to January, marginally down on 6.2% in the year to December. In the public sector, the rate of growth was 5.9% in the year to January, the same as the revised figure for the year to December.”

    https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/average-weekly-earnings
    Does that include pensions which are sod all in the private sector and a significant cost in the public ?
    Any pension contributions normally follow pay rises. If there has been a re-structure of the pensions, it probably won’t have been in a favourable direction. Lots of public sector pensions have gotten worse in recent years.

    It’s lazy nonsense to argue that public sector pay can forever keep falling further and further behind private sector because the pensions are better.
    I take it you work in the public sector.

    Here in the private we dont see it that way.
    Maybe if your reasoning skills were better, you’d have been able to get a job in the public sector!
    That's not very nice but here is a genuine question

    How much does the employer put into the teachers pension fund

    (The employer being HMG and the taxpayer)

    There is no teachers’ pension fund: pensioners are paid from current contributions.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last night's By Elections

    Worthing SKS Party (16%) Con +7.9% Swing SKS Tories to Tory 12%
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,894
    edited September 20
    There's such consistent feedback on the government being miserable from all quarters that I fully expect a smiling relaunch soon with lots of boosterish sunlit uplands and Starmer and Reeves encouraged to cheer up. Remember when Brown was told to arch his mouth upwards? Lots of fun to be had.

    They should get Angela Rayner to present all their policies. She's the only one, Ed Miliband aside, but he has other image issues - who looks like she's enjoying herself. I don't think Reeves can do sunny disposition. Keir we know can, but has not shown it enough. Cooper, Streeting and Lammy are all a bit on the frowny side too. Philipson is neutral to mildly smiley at a push. So fire up the Ange for the relaunch.

    The Tories are all looking understandably glum and po-faced too at the moment. The Lib Dems were the picture of sunshine and cheer at the conference, if anyone was watching.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last night's By Elections

    Harrow Rd SKS Party (22.5%) Greens 21.1% Swing SKS to Green 21.8%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Nike took note.
    Their stock price went up on the news.

    NIKE, Inc. Board of Directors Announces Long-Time Nike Veteran Elliott Hill to Return as President and Chief Executive Officer John Donahoe to Retire from Nike
    https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240919388699/en/NIKE-Inc.-Board-of-Directors-Announces-Long-Time-Nike-Veteran-Elliott-Hill-to-Return-as-President-and-Chief-Executive-Officer-John-Donahoe-to-Retire-from-Nike
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,833
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    He's trying to tell you gently that at your age you should be in Spezials.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Last night's By Elections

    Hartlepool SKS Party (21.9%) Reform +39.9% swing 30.7% SKS to Reform

    What ward? The "SKS Party" held Burn Valley yesterday despite a stiff challenge from the nutter who was the Fukker candidate in the GE.

    https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/2945/burn_valley_ward_by-election_result
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last night's By Elections

    Westminster SKS Party (10.5%) Con +8.5% Swing SKS Tory to Tories 9.5%
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,233

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
  • Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    "Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches" - I thought we were told this was impossible?

    A question - what happened for previous PMs and Northern Ireland Secs?
    Does he pay for a season ticket? That would seem a reasonable compromise, he is then paying what anyone else would. He could also say that he will reimburse the cost of food and drink.

    Similarly, I have some sympathy over the cost of Lady Starmer's wardrobe, although it would be better if it was provided in a way that didn't give rise to a pecuniary benefit
    What kind of fool are you , a mult-millionaire needs to take dodgy freebies , give me a break. Crooked does not begin to cover it, greedy grasping arse.
    No morals and no principles, just a greedy git.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,230
    Dura_Ace said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Hartlepool SKS Party (21.9%) Reform +39.9% swing 30.7% SKS to Reform

    What ward? The "SKS Party" held Burn Valley yesterday despite a stiff challenge from the nutter who was the Fukker candidate in the GE.

    https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/2945/burn_valley_ward_by-election_result
    There was only 1 by election - so Labour won on a reduced majority but Reform increased their vote which is why BJO is climaxing in exciting while posting incomplete details...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,894
    The 100% debt to GDP rating really isn't high by international standards. I worry this is just going to encourage further self-defeating austerity that takes us into a low growth spiral.

    USA: 123%
    Singapore: 163%
    France: 111%
    Italy: 139%
    Japan: 254% (!)
    China: 88%

    Only Germany and South Korea stand out among the big economies as having low debt to GDP ratios but I expect theirs to catch up in the next few years given their dire demographics. The rest are going inexorably upwards, the USA in particular.

    If I were a large company and those were my main competitors I'd be planning on borrowing to invest in growth, using the headroom I have.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881

    Last night's By Elections

    Westminster SKS Party (10.5%) Con +8.5% Swing SKS Tory to Tories 9.5%

    This is not the most useful format with which to report by-election results.

    But, yes, there were a bunch of by-elections yesterday and Labour saw some big vote share falls, albeit on tiny turnouts. I've seen 4 results: 2 Labour hold, 1 Labour loss to LD, 1 Labour loss to Con.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Do you have a dog? If so, set *all* the alarms at home.
    Don't have a dog or an alarm. Don't fucking need either. 🔫
    Oh dear. No pencils?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Last nights by elections

    Stockton SKS Party (4.5%) Con +12% SKS Tory to Tories awing 8.3%
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881
    eek said:



    Dura_Ace said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Hartlepool SKS Party (21.9%) Reform +39.9% swing 30.7% SKS to Reform

    What ward? The "SKS Party" held Burn Valley yesterday despite a stiff challenge from the nutter who was the Fukker candidate in the GE.

    https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/2945/burn_valley_ward_by-election_result
    There was only 1 by election - so Labour won on a reduced majority but Reform increased their vote which is why BJO is climaxing in exciting while posting incomplete details...
    Reform UK stood having not stood previously.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    "Lab vote share drops this week

    Bromsgrove -29.2
    Westminster, Harrow Road -27.6
    Cornwall -19.8
    Worthing -19.2
    Gedling -12.3
    Westminster West End -10.5
    Hartlepool -7
    Stockton -4.5"

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19072/local-council-elections-16th-september?page=5
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Summary of last night's By Elections

    SKS Party loses 3 Seats to LDs / Con
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 169

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,239
    GIN1138 said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
    The four year cycle means that 2025 locals will be compared to 2021, when Johnson was on a vaccine boost high.

    So Labour would have to go to some lengths to suffer a bloodbath next year. Plenty of time for them to do so.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,645
    Dura_Ace said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Hartlepool SKS Party (21.9%) Reform +39.9% swing 30.7% SKS to Reform

    What ward? The "SKS Party" held Burn Valley yesterday despite a stiff challenge from the nutter who was the Fukker candidate in the GE.

    https://www.hartlepool.gov.uk/news/article/2945/burn_valley_ward_by-election_result
    Hurrah for SKS

    LE 2025 are going to be a bloodbath despite 2021 being worse than under Jezza
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    .
    TimS said:

    The 100% debt to GDP rating really isn't high by international standards. I worry this is just going to encourage further self-defeating austerity that takes us into a low growth spiral.

    USA: 123%
    Singapore: 163%
    France: 111%
    Italy: 139%
    Japan: 254% (!)
    China: 88%

    Only Germany and South Korea stand out among the big economies as having low debt to GDP ratios but I expect theirs to catch up in the next few years given their dire demographics. The rest are going inexorably upwards, the USA in particular.

    If I were a large company and those were my main competitors I'd be planning on borrowing to invest in growth, using the headroom I have.

    We don't (yet) know whether Labour won't do that. Cutting discretionary spending and increasing investment aren't mutually exclusive.
    Though I will be positively surprised if they do increase investment substantially.
  • algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


  • GIN1138 said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
    Next year will be fine for Labour, since the baseline is 2021, Hartlepool by-election, Boris blimp, Young Conservatives in the park, isn't it? Even if the Conservatives recover well, they will probably go backwards next May. Though Lib Dems in the shires are more of a threat.

    Results after that will be more of a challenge.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,576

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    How dare the polling contradict the wisdom of the crowds. Quick - get back to discussing the council by-elections.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,233

    GIN1138 said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
    The four year cycle means that 2025 locals will be compared to 2021, when Johnson was on a vaccine boost high.

    So Labour would have to go to some lengths to suffer a bloodbath next year. Plenty of time for them to do so.
    Was having a look at the 2025 local elections at Wiki a moment ago.

    Also, these elections will be for the country councils where Con still look strong, so the Lab bloodbath will have to wait for 2026 and 2027 locals, lol!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.

    Not just the BBC.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79n1r5qrw3o

    And they at least have the excuse of bigging up their documentary about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.

    Not just the BBC.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79n1r5qrw3o

    And they at least have the excuse of bigging up their documentary about it.
    People were asking why the Crown did such bowdlerisation of the Al Fayed character - this stuff was known to people who read Private Eye.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,260
    kenObi said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
    Tosser, you obviously have no principles or morals and happy that politicians engage in shafting teh public and cocking a snout at the plebs.
    You are not one of teh exceptions then , how many football fans that have bought season tickets for countless years get handed free private boxes smart arse.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,446

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,881

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    When have local by-elections ever been frontpage national news?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    Agreed.
    The Tories have yet to grasp the magnitude of their anti-vote - and Labour how flimsy is their positive mandate.

    But other than local elections, they have several years to work that out before the next big test. So it's a very slowly unfolding story.

    Reform have clearly seen the opportunity, and are trying to turn themselves into a properly structured party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    There is a legitimate question to ask - if women went to the police with detailed, specific allegations, while he was alive, what happened?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    I think there is a market for some used items of apparel but I am not sure it is footwear.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,523
    GIN1138 said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
    Looks like it's nearly all Shire counties that are Tory run, and last fought at peak Boris, so may be a tougher baseline for Tories than Labour.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    A friend of mine worked at Harrods in the 1990s, when Fayed talked about charging *staff* to use the toilets.

    That's when I realised he was an utter *****.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,233
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Last night's By Elections

    Falmouth SKS Party (19.8%) LDs +25.5% Swing SKS to LD 22.7%

    Suspect next years local elections will be a bloodbath for Labour as they've now got a lot of councils and councilors to lose and pensioners will be turning out to seek revenge.
    Looks like it's nearly all Shire counties that are Tory run, and last fought at peak Boris, so may be a tougher baseline for Tories than Labour.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_United_Kingdom_local_elections
    Yes. The Lab bloodbath will be delayed until 2026/2027 :D
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    A friend of mine worked at Harrods in the 1990s, when Fayed talked about charging *staff* to use the toilets.

    That's when I realised he was an utter *****.
    Private Eye published many, many stories about him, over the years.

    Some included the story of the moment.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    A friend of mine worked at Harrods in the 1990s, when Fayed talked about charging *staff* to use the toilets.

    That's when I realised he was an utter *****.
    Private Eye published many, many stories about him, over the years.

    Some included the story of the moment.
    Yet Fulham fans still adored him and used to sing his name at all games.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    TimS said:

    The 100% debt to GDP rating really isn't high by international standards. I worry this is just going to encourage further self-defeating austerity that takes us into a low growth spiral.

    USA: 123%
    Singapore: 163%
    France: 111%
    Italy: 139%
    Japan: 254% (!)
    China: 88%

    Only Germany and South Korea stand out among the big economies as having low debt to GDP ratios but I expect theirs to catch up in the next few years given their dire demographics. The rest are going inexorably upwards, the USA in particular.

    If I were a large company and those were my main competitors I'd be planning on borrowing to invest in growth, using the headroom I have.

    This would be more convincing is the treasury could give a coherent account of how the debt already incurred, costing us £100bn annually to service, is bearing gigantic fruit already and will continue to do so. If borrowing £2.7 trillion has led us to impoverishment, why would the voter believe that the next £2.7 trillion will do better?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    There is a legitimate question to ask - if women went to the police with detailed, specific allegations, while he was alive, what happened?
    The Met apparently said they'd recently (how recently I don't know) accumulated sufficient evidence to prosecute, but that he was ill and hospitalised, so they didn't bring charges.
    And then he died.
  • Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    “Average earnings growth in the whole of the private sector was 6.1% in the year to January, marginally down on 6.2% in the year to December. In the public sector, the rate of growth was 5.9% in the year to January, the same as the revised figure for the year to December.”

    https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/average-weekly-earnings
    Does that include pensions which are sod all in the private sector and a significant cost in the public ?
    Any pension contributions normally follow pay rises. If there has been a re-structure of the pensions, it probably won’t have been in a favourable direction. Lots of public sector pensions have gotten worse in recent years.

    It’s lazy nonsense to argue that public sector pay can forever keep falling further and further behind private sector because the pensions are better.
    I take it you work in the public sector.

    Here in the private we dont see it that way.
    Maybe if your reasoning skills were better, you’d have been able to get a job in the public sector!
    That's not very nice but here is a genuine question

    How much does the employer put into the teachers pension fund

    (The employer being HMG and the taxpayer)

    Sorry, I have no idea. I am not in the teachers' pension fund.

    I am employed by a university, which counts as the public sector for some purposes and as a third category for other purposes. HMG puts no money directly into my pension fund. The money that pays for me and contributions to my pension fund, i.e. the university's income, comes partly from HMG (through various different routes), but more these days from student fees paid for by individuals, their families, their employers or the national governments of the countries from which they come. Middle class families in China sending their kids to study in the UK probably accounts for more of the money that pays for me than HMG.
    28.68% from 1st April 2024
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,072
    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    For the Counties next year, The Tories are still coming down from a high water mark, indeed they have overall control in all but two counties. Reform are not organised except in a few, local areas. The Lib Dems, on the other hand, could be on course to match a previous local high. So although Labour are unlikely to shine, the news could still be very grim for the new Tory leader.

    Oh dear, how sad... etc.
  • Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    “Average earnings growth in the whole of the private sector was 6.1% in the year to January, marginally down on 6.2% in the year to December. In the public sector, the rate of growth was 5.9% in the year to January, the same as the revised figure for the year to December.”

    https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/average-weekly-earnings
    Does that include pensions which are sod all in the private sector and a significant cost in the public ?
    Any pension contributions normally follow pay rises. If there has been a re-structure of the pensions, it probably won’t have been in a favourable direction. Lots of public sector pensions have gotten worse in recent years.

    It’s lazy nonsense to argue that public sector pay can forever keep falling further and further behind private sector because the pensions are better.
    I take it you work in the public sector.

    Here in the private we dont see it that way.
    Maybe if your reasoning skills were better, you’d have been able to get a job in the public sector!
    That's not very nice but here is a genuine question

    How much does the employer put into the teachers pension fund

    (The employer being HMG and the taxpayer)

    There is no teachers’ pension fund: pensioners are paid from current contributions.
    TPS as follows and its 28.68%

    https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/news/employers/2024/02/updates-to-contribution-rates.aspx#:~:text=Employer contributions,includes the 0.08% administration levy.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    Agreed.
    The Tories have yet to grasp the magnitude of their anti-vote - and Labour how flimsy is their positive mandate.

    But other than local elections, they have several years to work that out before the next big test. So it's a very slowly unfolding story.

    Reform have clearly seen the opportunity, and are trying to turn themselves into a properly structured party.
    The odd thing is that I am sure they have both grasped the precarious nature of their position, and in quite different ways have spent the time since the election trashing their own future. Labour by just ignoring absolute basics of sensible government and communications, the Tories by being about to appoint a leader who will fail to reconcile the one nation and the populist branches of the voting public.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Ballot rules in GOP states.

    So, let me get this straight.

    You can’t hand out water and snacks to people waiting in line to vote, but you can station yourself armed, in full tactical gear, and intimidate people trying to drop off a ballot?

    https://x.com/Logically_JC/status/1836717107490291964

    Obviously not on golf courses, though.

    The cognitive dissonance is off the scale.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 169
    malcolmg said:

    kenObi said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
    Tosser, you obviously have no principles or morals and happy that politicians engage in shafting teh public and cocking a snout at the plebs.
    You are not one of teh exceptions then , how many football fans that have bought season tickets for countless years get handed free private boxes smart arse.
    Only the most aching of simpletons would have no concept of the security arrangements required for a PM

    Every second out of Downing Street will require a risk assessment.
    Among the highest risk will be when you are a static target in a very public environment at a known time.

    I've seen Rishi Sunak in a tiny village in North Yorkshire with his family on a quite Sunday.
    Two close protection officers were within 10 metres. Probably more close by.

    Margaret Thatcher had close protection 24/7 for the 23 years after she left office.

    How many football fans require this level of security "smart arse" ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,444
    FPT

    This BBC documentary about computers from 1979 predicted that we'd be cashless by the 1990s.

    At 15 mins.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsLMDYVfxzw
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,239
    I need to get a bit of paper from a Court in England to get my mortgage in Ireland.

    It's been established, over four days of emails, that the Court has a copy of this bit of paper. I need to pay a fee of £11 for them to send it to me.

    To pay the fee I can either post them a cheque, or I can pay over the phone. The phone line is open for four hours each day. So far I have phoned... 29 times.

    Most of the time I receive a message "sorry your call cannot be continued" straight away. If I'm lucky, it rings for 90 seconds first, and then I get the message. Why do they not even have a proper phone queue system (let alone an online payment portal)?

    I'm going to have to post a cheque.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,486

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    The collectible trainers don’t get worn.

    It’s a weird American phenomenon, whereby the manufactures release hundreds of pairs of shoes on a specific day, that are slightly different from the normal trainers. These ‘drops’ sell out faster than Glastonbury tickets, and resell at massive markups.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    There is a legitimate question to ask - if women went to the police with detailed, specific allegations, while he was alive, what happened?
    The Met apparently said they'd recently (how recently I don't know) accumulated sufficient evidence to prosecute, but that he was ill and hospitalised, so they didn't bring charges.
    And then he died.
    People went to the police at the time.

    There were also things like his bodyguards carrying illegal firearms - pistols without the special dispensation from the Home Sec. NFA'd all the way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Nigelb said:

    Ballot rules in GOP states.

    So, let me get this straight.

    You can’t hand out water and snacks to people waiting in line to vote, but you can station yourself armed, in full tactical gear, and intimidate people trying to drop off a ballot?

    https://x.com/Logically_JC/status/1836717107490291964

    Obviously not on golf courses, though.

    The cognitive dissonance is off the scale.

    What about handing out snacks and water while carrying a tactical nuclear weapon?

    Asking for a friend.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,401
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    The collectible trainers don’t get worn.

    It’s a weird American phenomenon, whereby the manufactures release hundreds of pairs of shoes on a specific day, that are slightly different from the normal trainers. These ‘drops’ sell out faster than Glastonbury tickets, and resell at massive markups.
    I must have a fortune in the garage then. All of my used running shoes are 'slightly different' from the normal trainers...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,296
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    The collectible trainers don’t get worn.

    It’s a weird American phenomenon, whereby the manufactures release hundreds of pairs of shoes on a specific day, that are slightly different from the normal trainers. These ‘drops’ sell out faster than Glastonbury tickets, and resell at massive markups.
    On our local news earlier this year an enterprising chap gave up his expensive degree as he was making money on trainers as a sideline and was going to do it full time, due to the money he made.

    It is a massive business apparently.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,446
    edited September 20
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    A friend of mine worked at Harrods in the 1990s, when Fayed talked about charging *staff* to use the toilets.

    That's when I realised he was an utter *****.
    Private Eye published many, many stories about him, over the years.

    Some included the story of the moment.
    Yet Fulham fans still adored him and used to sing his name at all games.
    They also had a statue of Michael Jackson outside Craven cottage. - dodgy chaps.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,139
    edited September 20

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    When have local by-elections ever been frontpage national news?
    Derek Beackon winning the Isle of Dogs for the BNP in 1993 was the only one I can remember.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,171
    edited September 20

    Cookie said:

    FPT

    Interesting. Reeves could dig herself out of the political mess of the Winter Fuel Allowance scrapping by using the bump in CGT receipts this year because so many people are selling assets before 30th Oct.

    Ben Wilkinson
    Surely Labour couldn’t be this stupid?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/buy-to-let/surely-labour-cant-be-this-stupid/

    Alternatively, the Telegraph wants to label Labour as stupid.

    Three things.

    Using windfalls to pay for ongoing commitments is the stupid that Britain has been doing for years, and is part of why we're in this hole.

    If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?

    Would the apparently inevitable Jenrick/Badenoch government of 2029 reintroduce a winter bonus for all pensioners? Of course they won't.
    "If there is a couple of billion more to spend, is replenishing something that is mostly a freebie find for the well-off really the best way of doing it?"

    I thought you were all for massive pay rises for doctors and trains drivers ?
    I'm in favour of reality and arithmetic.

    If the cost to the nation of allowing the strikes to drag on was higher than paying up, then settle the strikes.

    If recruitment and retention are a problem, pay more.

    The problem with the "they should accept X and be grateful model" is that the government can't enforce it.
    Well, up to a point. If recruitment and retention are a problem, make the job more attractive, sure.

    But acceding to strikers demands doesn't make fewer strikes. It shows that strikes work and brings them back for more.

    While it might be true that some of the strikers have had below inflation pay increases, that's true of everyone. It's bot obvious why private sector workers should accept higher taxes so public sector workers can have higher pay increases than them. Inflation isn't the right comparator: the comparator should be what the given worker might earn by changing jobs.
    “Average earnings growth in the whole of the private sector was 6.1% in the year to January, marginally down on 6.2% in the year to December. In the public sector, the rate of growth was 5.9% in the year to January, the same as the revised figure for the year to December.”

    https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/average-weekly-earnings
    Does that include pensions which are sod all in the private sector and a significant cost in the public ?
    Any pension contributions normally follow pay rises. If there has been a re-structure of the pensions, it probably won’t have been in a favourable direction. Lots of public sector pensions have gotten worse in recent years.

    It’s lazy nonsense to argue that public sector pay can forever keep falling further and further behind private sector because the pensions are better.
    I take it you work in the public sector.

    Here in the private we dont see it that way.
    Maybe if your reasoning skills were better, you’d have been able to get a job in the public sector!
    That's not very nice but here is a genuine question

    How much does the employer put into the teachers pension fund

    (The employer being HMG and the taxpayer)

    There is no teachers’ pension fund: pensioners are paid from current contributions.
    TPS as follows and its 28.68%

    https://www.teacherspensions.co.uk/news/employers/2024/02/updates-to-contribution-rates.aspx#:~:text=Employer contributions,includes the 0.08% administration levy.
    But @Fysics_Teacher is right- there is no fund, it's done on a pay-as-you-go basis. Current contributions paying current payouts.

    In previous decades, governments of all colours made promises to public sector workers that they would be seen right in retirement. And people were, and are, willing to work for less cash now on that basis. It might have been better all round had different decisions been made decades ago, but they weren't. In large part because it would have cost more upfront, and voters didn't want to pay for that.

    And that bill that the government didn't pay then has landed now. If we don't pay it now, we are setting ourselves up for even more trouble in decades to come.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    There is a legitimate question to ask - if women went to the police with detailed, specific allegations, while he was alive, what happened?
    The Met apparently said they'd recently (how recently I don't know) accumulated sufficient evidence to prosecute, but that he was ill and hospitalised, so they didn't bring charges.
    And then he died.
    People went to the police at the time.

    There were also things like his bodyguards carrying illegal firearms - pistols without the special dispensation from the Home Sec. NFA'd all the way.
    It does seem likely that they could have brought charges far sooner. But the point is that even the Met was ready to do so before he died.

    And it easy to forget that it's less than a decade since MeToo really took off. A lot of people got away with a load of shit, almost as a matter of course, before that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    edited September 20

    Nigelb said:

    Ballot rules in GOP states.

    So, let me get this straight.

    You can’t hand out water and snacks to people waiting in line to vote, but you can station yourself armed, in full tactical gear, and intimidate people trying to drop off a ballot?

    https://x.com/Logically_JC/status/1836717107490291964

    Obviously not on golf courses, though.

    The cognitive dissonance is off the scale.

    What about handing out snacks and water while carrying a tactical nuclear weapon?

    Asking for a friend.
    I won't question that choice.
  • .
    kenObi said:

    malcolmg said:

    kenObi said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
    Tosser, you obviously have no principles or morals and happy that politicians engage in shafting teh public and cocking a snout at the plebs.
    You are not one of teh exceptions then , how many football fans that have bought season tickets for countless years get handed free private boxes smart arse.
    Only the most aching of simpletons would have no concept of the security arrangements required for a PM

    Every second out of Downing Street will require a risk assessment.
    Among the highest risk will be when you are a static target in a very public environment at a known time.

    I've seen Rishi Sunak in a tiny village in North Yorkshire with his family on a quite Sunday.
    Two close protection officers were within 10 metres. Probably more close by.

    Margaret Thatcher had close protection 24/7 for the 23 years after she left office.

    How many football fans require this level of security "smart arse" ?
    He's the fucking PM, he needs to decide what's more important. Going to football to see his "beloved" Arsenal for free and trousering over a hundred grand in freebies, which then paints him as a grifter and lose all credibility, or he wants to taken seriously as the Labour PM that came into power to sort out the country after 14 years of the Tory clownshow, including cutting the WFA for many pensioners.
    Currently, he looks like he likes the trough more than the country.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    kenObi said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
    He should go to football as often as he can, fine. He should, sadly, have to cost Arsenal/taxpayer zillions so that he can go, fine, but the ticket itself for him and family members is down to him. If he has to sit in a billion pound seat for security reasons, he should not have to pay for that. And he can have a complimentary prawn sandwich. All politicians know that appearances in boring detail matter.

    Has he by any chance a good excuse to get to Manchester on Sunday? The Gunners need all the help they can get.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,826
    Sounds like a job for Leon.

    Alright, having seen at least a portion of them, I now understand why CNN didn’t publish all of Robinson’s comments. There’s stuff that you straight up can’t run on daytime TV and you frankly do not want to read. The links are floating around if you want to see
    https://x.com/ShamebyJames/status/1836902852414894591
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,239

    I need to get a bit of paper from a Court in England to get my mortgage in Ireland.

    It's been established, over four days of emails, that the Court has a copy of this bit of paper. I need to pay a fee of £11 for them to send it to me.

    To pay the fee I can either post them a cheque, or I can pay over the phone. The phone line is open for four hours each day. So far I have phoned... 29 times.

    Most of the time I receive a message "sorry your call cannot be continued" straight away. If I'm lucky, it rings for 90 seconds first, and then I get the message. Why do they not even have a proper phone queue system (let alone an online payment portal)?

    I'm going to have to post a cheque.

    Is this what living in Britain has been like in the two years since I left?
    40th time lucky?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    boulay said:

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    A friend of mine worked at Harrods in the 1990s, when Fayed talked about charging *staff* to use the toilets.

    That's when I realised he was an utter *****.
    Private Eye published many, many stories about him, over the years.

    Some included the story of the moment.
    Yet Fulham fans still adored him and used to sing his name at all games.
    They also had a statue of Michael Jackson outside Craven cottage. - dodgy chaps.
    I think the last word on the matter came from the FA.

    When Thaskin wanted to buy a football club, the FA was asked "does this not breach the 'Fit and Proper' clause with regard to football club ownership"

    The FA went and asked its lawyers. Who determined that being a UN defined war criminal didn't break the 'Fit and Proper' clause.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,462
    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Drug dealers still doing fine under Starmer?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,457
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    The collectible trainers don’t get worn.

    It’s a weird American phenomenon, whereby the manufactures release hundreds of pairs of shoes on a specific day, that are slightly different from the normal trainers. These ‘drops’ sell out faster than Glastonbury tickets, and resell at massive markups.
    Speaking of collectibles not being worn, it's the same with books not being read. I was reading a novel off my shelf yesterday, published 1966, and thought nothing of it until I noticed on Abe that copies like the one I was casually reading (ie first edition) go for £1500/£2000. Nuts.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,245

    Last night's By Elections

    Westminster SKS Party (10.5%) Con +8.5% Swing SKS Tory to Tories 9.5%

    West End is the bellwether ward on Westminster Council. The Tories will likely regain the Council in 2026.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,276
    edited September 20
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    This BBC documentary about computers from 1979 predicted that we'd be cashless by the 1990s.

    At 15 mins.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsLMDYVfxzw

    My cash grumble for today is the pester power being brought to bear for a card account for my youngest.

    I don't possess the correct current accounts to get one of these for free (and don't wish to switch) so, scanning around, the GoHenry would be the highest quality, if not the cheapest, option. And I suppose it is a relationship with money for her (albeit seeing notes go out of her hand is a more direct lesson).

    I may do it, but replacing a free tracker sheet of paper with a £30 odd annual fee for managing my daughter's pocket money for electronically seems like a loss for not very much.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    According to the BBC the big story concerns the sex crimes of a deceased Egyptian shopkeeper. Other squirrels are available.


    He was an evil fugger though.

    Some in the media have started the “why didn’t SKS prosecute him when he was DPP” so could go anywhere as a story.
    There is a legitimate question to ask - if women went to the police with detailed, specific allegations, while he was alive, what happened?
    The Met apparently said they'd recently (how recently I don't know) accumulated sufficient evidence to prosecute, but that he was ill and hospitalised, so they didn't bring charges.
    And then he died.
    People went to the police at the time.

    There were also things like his bodyguards carrying illegal firearms - pistols without the special dispensation from the Home Sec. NFA'd all the way.
    It does seem likely that they could have brought charges far sooner. But the point is that even the Met was ready to do so before he died.

    And it easy to forget that it's less than a decade since MeToo really took off. A lot of people got away with a load of shit, almost as a matter of course, before that.
    Indeed. But it is important to dig this stuff up now. Not just for the victims - who must have suffered, seeing The Phoney Pharaoh being lauded, by some. But also to show that this must not be allowed to happen in future.

    The gun thing I find inexplicable. I mean, this is the time period where, a registered firearms dealer who legally owned a weapon was ruined (threatened with prosecution), for handing said weapon to *the armed police*. See the Raul Moat standoff.
  • Last night I booked 2 day return tickets for my wife and myself to Aberystwyth on the Transport for Wales app

    A confirmation email was received, but said that neither the e mail nor my app was the ticket and I had to go to the station who would provide the tickets

    Accordingly I went to the station and the ticket office produced no less than 7 tickets including my parking ticket

    I did say to the staff member why on earth did I have to have hard tickets when last time we travelled on TFW our tickets were live on my phone

    He had no idea and seemed surprised, and to be honest that is just a small example of what is wrong with the use of IT in some industries
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,239

    I need to get a bit of paper from a Court in England to get my mortgage in Ireland.

    It's been established, over four days of emails, that the Court has a copy of this bit of paper. I need to pay a fee of £11 for them to send it to me.

    To pay the fee I can either post them a cheque, or I can pay over the phone. The phone line is open for four hours each day. So far I have phoned... 29 times.

    Most of the time I receive a message "sorry your call cannot be continued" straight away. If I'm lucky, it rings for 90 seconds first, and then I get the message. Why do they not even have a proper phone queue system (let alone an online payment portal)?

    I'm going to have to post a cheque.

    Is this what living in Britain has been like in the two years since I left?
    40th time lucky?
    Now I'm remembering that the GP surgery in Edinburgh wouldn't simply email our medical notes. My wife had to take a day trip to Edinburgh to collect a print out.

    51 calls. All failed.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,894
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    The 100% debt to GDP rating really isn't high by international standards. I worry this is just going to encourage further self-defeating austerity that takes us into a low growth spiral.

    USA: 123%
    Singapore: 163%
    France: 111%
    Italy: 139%
    Japan: 254% (!)
    China: 88%

    Only Germany and South Korea stand out among the big economies as having low debt to GDP ratios but I expect theirs to catch up in the next few years given their dire demographics. The rest are going inexorably upwards, the USA in particular.

    If I were a large company and those were my main competitors I'd be planning on borrowing to invest in growth, using the headroom I have.

    This would be more convincing is the treasury could give a coherent account of how the debt already incurred, costing us £100bn annually to service, is bearing gigantic fruit already and will continue to do so. If borrowing £2.7 trillion has led us to impoverishment, why would the voter believe that the next £2.7 trillion will do better?
    If we'd borrowed even less we would have even shitter public infrastructure and nobody would invest here. But I agree that government needs to explain better how the markets can be used to drive growth because we've all been brainwashed to think of government debt as some sort of sign of failure.

    The point is 100% of GDP really isn't that high. It sounds high because it sounds like it's the "value of the entire economy", but GDP is the annual run rate of the economy not its capital value. Most of us have mortgages that are at least a couple of times our annual incomes and most large businesses have external debt several times larger than their annual net profit. The right measure should be to consider public and private debt together (countries with high public debt like Japan tend to have correspondingly low private debt) and compare it with the capital stock of the country and a measure like interest cover.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,931
    algarkirk said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Some sline at the petrol station (paid with Amex, lol) just tried to buy my trainers (Adidas Superstars Black/Rasta).

    This is definitely a very significant economic indicator of no little portent but I don't know what because I don't understand any of that shit.

    Collecting trainers is a big thing apparently. Worth quite alot of money some can be.

    Same with after shave. Found out yesterday one of my co-workers collects rare after shave. Never knew there was such a thing.
    Anyone who wants to collect my running trainers are welcome to them. Biologists may be interested in the new and interesting creatures growing within. Or the military for scents that could kill from a distance.

    (Swimming a lake or river, slipping on trainers, then cycling and running miles in them leads to interesting odours...)
    The collectible trainers don’t get worn.

    It’s a weird American phenomenon, whereby the manufactures release hundreds of pairs of shoes on a specific day, that are slightly different from the normal trainers. These ‘drops’ sell out faster than Glastonbury tickets, and resell at massive markups.
    Speaking of collectibles not being worn, it's the same with books not being read. I was reading a novel off my shelf yesterday, published 1966, and thought nothing of it until I noticed on Abe that copies like the one I was casually reading (ie first edition) go for £1500/£2000. Nuts.
    My father (bless him) had bought the Harry Potter series, when they first came out, for my daughters.

    His carefully thought out inscriptions, on the flyleaf, of each book rendered them virtually valueless.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 169

    .

    kenObi said:

    malcolmg said:

    kenObi said:

    Taz said:

    I think the conclusion is correct. It is not fatal. They can recover. But will they.

    "This is not a fatal moment for Sir Keir’s prime ministership. But it is a failure from which it is vital that Sir Keir should learn. He needs a stronger commitment to standards, effectively and independently enforced, so that politics and government can begin to be trusted again. That is not happening at the moment. But it is indispensable. Without it, the risks facing Labour in government will only continue to grow."

    Starmer has shown himself able to learn lessons in the past but learning this one involves making personal sacrifices. I get being an addicted fan of a football team, I am one, but he is the PM. Maybe the solution is just not to go to matches. And he can clearly afford to buy his own glasses.

    With a few exceptions this site is full of people utterly clueless about football & supporters.

    He's had a season ticket for at least 18 years.
    He takes his kid, probably knows the people sitting nearby.
    The idea posted by someone that a couple of burly constables should sit either side is laughable as a security measure.

    So far in the last couple of months we have had people suggesting he shouldn't have Shabbat dinner at home with his family & now can't go to a match.

    Even politicians need a life.

    The glasses, clothes etc is inexusable.
    Tosser, you obviously have no principles or morals and happy that politicians engage in shafting teh public and cocking a snout at the plebs.
    You are not one of teh exceptions then , how many football fans that have bought season tickets for countless years get handed free private boxes smart arse.
    Only the most aching of simpletons would have no concept of the security arrangements required for a PM

    Every second out of Downing Street will require a risk assessment.
    Among the highest risk will be when you are a static target in a very public environment at a known time.

    I've seen Rishi Sunak in a tiny village in North Yorkshire with his family on a quite Sunday.
    Two close protection officers were within 10 metres. Probably more close by.

    Margaret Thatcher had close protection 24/7 for the 23 years after she left office.

    How many football fans require this level of security "smart arse" ?
    He's the fucking PM, he needs to decide what's more important. Going to football to see his "beloved" Arsenal for free and trousering over a hundred grand in freebies, which then paints him as a grifter and lose all credibility, or he wants to taken seriously as the Labour PM that came into power to sort out the country after 14 years of the Tory clownshow, including cutting the WFA for many pensioners.
    Currently, he looks like he likes the trough more than the country.
    But John Major going to Lords to watch cricket or Stamford Bridge to watch the footbal was presumably fine.

    Have I got this right ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,245
    Cicero said:

    algarkirk said:

    Habemus pollum!


    According to the first Techne UK weekly tracker poll for The Independent, Labour has increased its lead over the Tories from 10 per cent on the day of the election to 12 per cent.

    Sir Keir’s party is still the number 1 choice among pensioners aged 65 and over, with 19 per cent compared to 14 per cent for the Conservatives. This despite the much criticised decision to cancel winter fuel payments for 10 million pensioners.

    Overall, excluding “don’t knows” or “wouldn’t vote”, Labour polls at 33 per cent, just one point below what they received on election day. The Tories, who are still looking for a leader to replace Rishi Sunak, are down three points to 21 per cent. Meanwhile, Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party is up four points to 18 per cent.


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/pensioners-still-more-likely-to-support-starmer-s-labour-despite-winter-fuel-row-new-poll-reveals/ar-AA1qSITQ?ocid=socialshare

    hashtagthatsnotthenarrative

    The big story here is that neither Lab nor Con is remotely close to being popular, with 54% between them, after DKs etc have been removed.

    The opportunity here for LDs and Reform is enormous.
    For the Counties next year, The Tories are still coming down from a high water mark, indeed they have overall control in all but two counties. Reform are not organised except in a few, local areas. The Lib Dems, on the other hand, could be on course to match a previous local high. So although Labour are unlikely to shine, the news could still be very grim for the new Tory leader.

    Oh dear, how sad... etc.
    If the kind of results that are coming from local by-elections are maintained next year, I expect the Conservatives' lead over Labour will be considerably bigger than the 7% they recorded in 2021.

    So, in all likelihood, seat losses to the Lib Dems and Reform will be matched by seat gains from Labour. That may still mean an overall loss in councils. But, I'd expect counties like Lancashire, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire to remain Conservative.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited September 20
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Labour - it isnt going well is it ?

    Fighting like rats in a sack. I think the budget is going to be make or break, I really do.

    Someone really doesn't like Sue Gray within the Labour ranks.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/keir-starmer-accused-of-handing-gold-plated-pension-to-sue-gray-as-pensioners-brace-for-winter-fuel-cut/ar-AA1qPZtO?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=91b32126d6284f38a6b4b8ed347996a8&ei=12
    Much more likely it's a Civil Servant still smarting from personal criticism after her report on the lockdown parties.

    Which is annoying, in fact, as any of the bastards involved should have been fired on the spot.
    Westminster Village story. Civil servant earns more than PM is yet another non-issue. Some civil servants earn more than the PM and have done for a long time.
This discussion has been closed.