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Yes We Kam! – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,032
edited September 19 in General
imageYes We Kam! – politicalbetting.com

9 polls now in that Harris +4-6 national poll cluster https://t.co/YiIqUyqS2F

Read the full story here

«134

Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    What if it's not close ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    FPT

    Meanwhile, in "the electorate is always right, even when they are wrong, but sometimes they are very wrong" news,

    Just 12% of people expect net migration to fall over the first twelve months of the new government; 50% expect it to rise further. (But the 12% are right: immigration is now falling, so net migration will approximately halve this year)

    We asked respondents to estimate the proportion of UK immigration in each of these categories [By giving them 100 points to split between 4 categories]

    Asylum: estimate 37% (actual: 7%)
    Family: estimate 17% (actual 6%)

    Work: estimate 26% (actual 40%)
    Study: estimate 19% (actual 38%)

    Quarter of the public with most liberal views estimate 19% of UK immig is asylum (actual 7%)

    Quarter with most migration sceptic views estimate 47% of immigration is asylum (vs actual 7%)

    Four in ten Reform voters (39%) + 31% of Cons think that more than half of UK immigration is to claim asylum


    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3l4ho4aatin22

    Two points on this - first, Labour will get some benefit just by carrying on as they are now, when the falling numbers become headlines.

    Secondly, it's an illustration of how disastrously managed was the asylum policy.
    The numbers are small in relation to the immigration total, and yet keeping those people effectively detained, in a state of enforced economic inactivity, costs us many billions every year.
    Sorting that out ought to be a political and economic imperative.
  • More anti English racism from the Welsh.

    I've seen it first hand attending Wales v England rugby union matches.

    Free transport scrapped for English-speaking children – but kept for Welsh-speakers

    Labour-run council ‘reluctantly’ drops providing travel for nursery and sixth form students but makes exception for Welsh-speaking schools


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/18/wales-free-transport-bridgend-council/
  • We should see the word "asseveration" more often.

    Especially on here.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,749
    edited September 19
    Sixer.

    Is Trump's asseveration a consequence of his prosopography?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,367
    edited September 19
    Well said James Cleverly because I hate upper/middle class people who try and pass themselves off as working class. Plus Kemi should be reminded that people with class do not talk about class.

    Conservative leadership hopeful James Cleverly has made a swipe at Kemi Badenoch after she claimed she became "working class" following a stint working at McDonald’s.

    Tory leadership hopeful Badenoch made the comments on Wednesday, after claiming she grew up in a middle-class family but “became working class” after securing a job at the fast food chain.

    The comments came in a bid to appeal to working-class Tory voters in the midst of her party leadership battle.

    Badenoch claimed she got the job aged 16, with her comments drawing criticism and widespread mockery across social media.

    But speaking to LBC tonight, James Cleverly seemingly hit out at his leadership rival.

    He told Iain Dale: "Everyone likes to define themselves as working class, even upper class people... I'm boringly middle class."

    Badenoch's comments saw Labour MP Chris Bryant respond to a clip on X formerly Twitter, remarking: “I’m not sure that’s how it works”.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/james-cleverly-swipe-kemi-badenoch-became-working-class-while-working-mcdonalds/
  • eekeek Posts: 27,352
    edited September 19

    More anti English racism from the Welsh.

    I've seen it first hand attending Wales v England rugby union matches.

    Free transport scrapped for English-speaking children – but kept for Welsh-speakers

    Labour-run council ‘reluctantly’ drops providing travel for nursery and sixth form students but makes exception for Welsh-speaking schools


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/18/wales-free-transport-bridgend-council/

    It's welsh schools AND faith schools where the buses will continue.

    So it's possible that this is legal where the bus is the only way to get the children to the appropriate school.

    But you need to read the quote at the end of the 7th paragraph to discover the actual story.

  • TazTaz Posts: 13,432
    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    MattW said:

    Sixer.

    Is Trump's asseveration a consequence of his prosopography?

    No, that's more his excess of covfefe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Loved the Vance crowd yesterday that booed the cut in interest rates.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415

    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    Then you get to remind us all you were right.
    I hadn't thought of that.
    Good point.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575
    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,575

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    When does he announced National Service for all 18 years olds?
    When Putin makes his move on Alaska...
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    Then you get to remind us all you were right.
    I hadn't thought of that.
    Good point.
    Pro tip, be modest and self effacing when reminding PBers you were right.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,459

    Well said James Cleverly because I hate upper/middle class people who try and pass themselves off as working class. Plus Kemi should be reminded that people with class do not talk about class.

    Conservative leadership hopeful James Cleverly has made a swipe at Kemi Badenoch after she claimed she became "working class" following a stint working at McDonald’s.

    Tory leadership hopeful Badenoch made the comments on Wednesday, after claiming she grew up in a middle-class family but “became working class” after securing a job at the fast food chain.

    The comments came in a bid to appeal to working-class Tory voters in the midst of her party leadership battle.

    Badenoch claimed she got the job aged 16, with her comments drawing criticism and widespread mockery across social media.

    But speaking to LBC tonight, James Cleverly seemingly hit out at his leadership rival.

    He told Iain Dale: "Everyone likes to define themselves as working class, even upper class people... I'm boringly middle class."

    Badenoch's comments saw Labour MP Chris Bryant respond to a clip on X formerly Twitter, remarking: “I’m not sure that’s how it works”.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/james-cleverly-swipe-kemi-badenoch-became-working-class-while-working-mcdonalds/

    I have done a stint working at McDonalds. I very much hope you are not doubting my impeccable working class credentials.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,091
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Meanwhile, in "the electorate is always right, even when they are wrong, but sometimes they are very wrong" news,

    Just 12% of people expect net migration to fall over the first twelve months of the new government; 50% expect it to rise further. (But the 12% are right: immigration is now falling, so net migration will approximately halve this year)

    We asked respondents to estimate the proportion of UK immigration in each of these categories [By giving them 100 points to split between 4 categories]

    Asylum: estimate 37% (actual: 7%)
    Family: estimate 17% (actual 6%)

    Work: estimate 26% (actual 40%)
    Study: estimate 19% (actual 38%)

    Quarter of the public with most liberal views estimate 19% of UK immig is asylum (actual 7%)

    Quarter with most migration sceptic views estimate 47% of immigration is asylum (vs actual 7%)

    Four in ten Reform voters (39%) + 31% of Cons think that more than half of UK immigration is to claim asylum


    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3l4ho4aatin22

    Two points on this - first, Labour will get some benefit just by carrying on as they are now, when the falling numbers become headlines.

    Secondly, it's an illustration of how disastrously managed was the asylum policy.
    The numbers are small in relation to the immigration total, and yet keeping those people effectively detained, in a state of enforced economic inactivity, costs us many billions every year.
    Sorting that out ought to be a political and economic imperative.
    The asylum issue is still a problem for two reasons. One is it's really expensive. The other is that it's only down to 7% of the total because the government went insane and permitted a huge amount of legal immigration which it should not have done.

    If we were to shoot for a target number in David Cameron's fabled tens of thousands(let's be generous and go for 99k) then if we accepted 67% of the 84k people who applied last year we're talking about 56% of those we permit to come being asylum seekers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,459
    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    When does he announced National Service for all 18 years olds?
    When Putin makes his move on Alaska...
    Talking of Palin, Trump announced the other day that he could see Hawaii from California.

    I think he meant this.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Catalina_Island_(California)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes
  • Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Meanwhile, in "the electorate is always right, even when they are wrong, but sometimes they are very wrong" news,

    Just 12% of people expect net migration to fall over the first twelve months of the new government; 50% expect it to rise further. (But the 12% are right: immigration is now falling, so net migration will approximately halve this year)

    We asked respondents to estimate the proportion of UK immigration in each of these categories [By giving them 100 points to split between 4 categories]

    Asylum: estimate 37% (actual: 7%)
    Family: estimate 17% (actual 6%)

    Work: estimate 26% (actual 40%)
    Study: estimate 19% (actual 38%)

    Quarter of the public with most liberal views estimate 19% of UK immig is asylum (actual 7%)

    Quarter with most migration sceptic views estimate 47% of immigration is asylum (vs actual 7%)

    Four in ten Reform voters (39%) + 31% of Cons think that more than half of UK immigration is to claim asylum


    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3l4ho4aatin22

    Two points on this - first, Labour will get some benefit just by carrying on as they are now, when the falling numbers become headlines.

    Secondly, it's an illustration of how disastrously managed was the asylum policy.
    The numbers are small in relation to the immigration total, and yet keeping those people effectively detained, in a state of enforced economic inactivity, costs us many billions every year.
    Sorting that out ought to be a political and economic imperative.
    In which case, electing Robert Jenrick as Conservative leader may not develop to the Conservative Party's advantage.

    His USP is tough on immigration. And if rubbishy Starmer performs better than he did...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    TOPPING said:

    Well said James Cleverly because I hate upper/middle class people who try and pass themselves off as working class. Plus Kemi should be reminded that people with class do not talk about class.

    Conservative leadership hopeful James Cleverly has made a swipe at Kemi Badenoch after she claimed she became "working class" following a stint working at McDonald’s.

    Tory leadership hopeful Badenoch made the comments on Wednesday, after claiming she grew up in a middle-class family but “became working class” after securing a job at the fast food chain.

    The comments came in a bid to appeal to working-class Tory voters in the midst of her party leadership battle.

    Badenoch claimed she got the job aged 16, with her comments drawing criticism and widespread mockery across social media.

    But speaking to LBC tonight, James Cleverly seemingly hit out at his leadership rival.

    He told Iain Dale: "Everyone likes to define themselves as working class, even upper class people... I'm boringly middle class."

    Badenoch's comments saw Labour MP Chris Bryant respond to a clip on X formerly Twitter, remarking: “I’m not sure that’s how it works”.


    https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/james-cleverly-swipe-kemi-badenoch-became-working-class-while-working-mcdonalds/

    I have done a stint working at McDonalds. I very much hope you are not doubting my impeccable working class credentials.
    Harris is also working class then given her stint there, of course Badenoch wrong on that as plenty of middle class students do holiday jobs at McDonalds
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I expect Trump to pick up Arizona and Georgia, NC and Pennsylvania will be close
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,749
    edited September 19
    Picking up the comments about glasses up from last night from @theProle and @carnforth .
    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1836380388564029933

    NEW: Waheed Alli profile @BloombergUK

    *he’s still attending No10 meetings despite having pass removed
    *close relationship with Sue Gray makes him ever-present figure
    *he’s donated more than £575,000 to Labour politicians in 4 years
    *intimate donor dinners at his Mayfair home
    *lavish late night pool parties with Cabinet ministers at his Kent mansion
    *he’s the donor to go to when Labour politicians need a suit, loan or birthday party paid for
    *£14,000 for ‘events’ for Bridget Phillipson shortly before her 40th bday

    How can Labour be THIS venal, greedy and stupid? It beggars belief. And then Labour would steal belief from the beggar anyway
    Corbyn wouldn't do it!
    Unless it was from Hezbollah, in which case he'd make an exception.
    Corbyn accepted only one bit of hospitality during his tenure as leader: tickets for Glastonbury. Miliband accepted some tickets for the Olympics, and Brown accepted nothing. Blair accepted quite a bit, but, incredibly, Starmer has accepted more hospitality than his four predecessors combined. And his tenure includes a period when no-one was allowed to do anything.
    I suspect Starmer is going to end up hated more bitterly than any PM in modern history. He is already dislikeable - now it turns out he’s greedy and corrupt. And he’s clueless and disapproving and tin-eared. And he has an annoying voice. And little squinty eyes as he frowns at you through his free £20k designer specs, for eating a
    pie without his permission as he steals your granny’s last lump of coal
    That caught my attention, but I see you are being Leonine.

    Mr Starmer has swapped his £500 specs for a £220 version. Both are frame prices.

    I spend about £400-500 a year on specs if I want two pairs (one without reacting lenses for indoors) at Specsavers, which goes on lenses and necessary options, because I have an interesting prescription. That's with a fair amount of discounts and freebies, which at Specsavers are horribly complicated.

    If it was a £500 frame I would be having them re-lensed for the next year.

    I don't see the point of paying £500 for an ordinary looking frame, so count me as baffled on thsi one.
    How much! I've worn fairly potent glasses since I was 3 years old, thanks to being pretty severely short sighted, but I think the most I've spent on a pair was £80 for some safety space ones with toughened lenses...
    I think there's fair comment there, and also this from @carnforth :smile:

    I have a severe astigmatism, and pay about £450 for two pairs (thinnest possible lenses).

    That's about once every five years or so, though. How are you going through a set of lenses in a year? A changing prescription, or wear and tear?


    There are several points there.

    I've had glasses since the age of about 7, and an astigmatism heavy enough that I cannot use online or "select from a range" options. Also, becoming Type I Diabetic in my early 30s - wrong sort of stomach infection - means that my eyes continue to change as I age 25 years on with retinopathy beginning to appear a little. It also means I place a high value on service from a long-term optician relationship. Both are just a part of the diabetes overhead.

    For glasses, my normal options over "basic" are multiway bend-and-recover hinges (I read books and fall asleep and bend normal flimsy ones), thin lenses due to heavy prescription (one from thinnest usually), reactions lenses (I have read too many reports of "but I didn't see him because of the bright sun when I ran him down at 30mph, so it wasn't my fault"), and 'one from the top' varifocals. All those cost more, subject to offers.

    That puts me on ~£100-£130 frames, and by the time I have a second non-light reacting set for indoors in a slightly cheaper frame, and the normal offers on a second pair (one or other feature would be free one one or both pairs), a list price total of £~600-650 will come down to £400-500.

    The "every year" is driven partly by the prescription change, and me wanting "as good as possible" eyesight. But also because I fund via a Healthcare Cash Plan - institutions basically left over from before the NHS, which is in my case pay £~30 a month and get £200 for dental and £220 for optical once a year each, and lots of other useful grants if you need them, eg I get £40 a day when I am an in-patient or day-patient, payments for therapists, health checks and so on. The best known such plan is Westfield. I was on one which paid £200 for 50% of glasses (so £400+ makes sense), but I've changed to one which pays 100%, so in fact it may work to change my pattern if the changing eyes will work.

    Hope that clarifies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871
    Taz said:

    Will there be a "Yes we Kem" if Badenoch becomes favourite the Tories leadership ?

    At the moment she may not even make the final two
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,749
    edited September 19
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Sixer.

    Is Trump's asseveration a consequence of his prosopography?

    No, that's more his excess of covfefe.
    You pendant. :smile:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    HYUFD said:

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I expect Trump to pick up Arizona and Georgia, NC and Pennsylvania will be close
    Pennsylvania Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 49%
    Trump (R): 46%
    Franklin & Marshall / Sept 16, 2024

    Harris (D): 49%
    Trump (R): 49%
    June Poll:
    Trump (R): 47%
    Biden (D): 45%
    Marist / Sept 17, 2024 / n=1754

    https://x.com/USA_Polling





  • HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Will there be a "Yes we Kem" if Badenoch becomes favourite the Tories leadership ?

    At the moment she may not even make the final two
    If she doesn't pick up any votes from Stride (not impossible) and the split goes correctly for them (unlikely, but damn funny), she's out next.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    Vance is approaching Trump standards for lies per minute.

    "I'm still gonna call them an illegal alien" -- JD Vance on Haitian migrants who are in Ohio legally
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1836492489915592860

    TPS isn't "illegal" - and it's been on the statute books for about a quarter of a century.
    https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-244
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,512
    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    As I said yesterday I consider the election to be too close until North Dakota becomes a toss up and even then I will still be worried.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,019
    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes

    538 currently has Harris as 64% chance of winning, whereas Silver has Harris at 44% chance of winning - maintaining the 20% differential (note that BF exchange seems to be halfway between the two). This seems quite a big difference as I think they use a broadly similar approach in their models. Does anyone have a serious explanation for the difference?

    Silver says
    The model gives Harris a 49 percent chance of winning Pennsylvania
    But his polling average has Harris 1.4% ahead in Pennsylvania - so why does it give the edge to Trump in this state?

    538 gives Harris a 61% chance of winning Pennsylvania
    538 polling average Harris 1.9% ahead

    So part of the explanation is that Silver's polling average in most swing states is a little more favorable to Trump than the 538 polling average (for whatever reason). But there's got to be more to it than that I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    As I said yesterday I consider the election to be too close until North Dakota becomes a toss up and even then I will still be worried.
    That's also the Democrat's line.
    Which, given what happened to Hillary, is likely to remain the case even were they to pull into a 10% lead.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes

    538 currently has Harris as 64% chance of winning, whereas Silver has Harris at 44% chance of winning - maintaining the 20% differential (note that BF exchange seems to be halfway between the two). This seems quite a big difference as I think they use a broadly similar approach in their models. Does anyone have a serious explanation for the difference?

    Silver says
    The model gives Harris a 49 percent chance of winning Pennsylvania
    But his polling average has Harris 1.4% ahead in Pennsylvania - so why does it give the edge to Trump in this state?

    538 gives Harris a 61% chance of winning Pennsylvania
    538 polling average Harris 1.9% ahead

    So part of the explanation is that Silver's polling average in most swing states is a little more favorable to Trump than the 538 polling average (for whatever reason). But there's got to be more to it than that I think.
    Nate is working for a betting market, with hundreds of millions being staked on the election. I'd merely note that the race remaining close is good for its business, and there's a possible conflict of interest there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    s
    Nigelb said:

    Vance is approaching Trump standards for lies per minute.

    "I'm still gonna call them an illegal alien" -- JD Vance on Haitian migrants who are in Ohio legally
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1836492489915592860

    TPS isn't "illegal" - and it's been on the statute books for about a quarter of a century.
    https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-244

    I thought all aliens were illegals? No-one has ever seen one of these guys at a passport queue, right?

    image
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    MattW said:

    Picking up the comments about glasses up from last night from @theProle and @carnforth .

    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1836380388564029933

    NEW: Waheed Alli profile @BloombergUK

    *he’s still attending No10 meetings despite having pass removed
    *close relationship with Sue Gray makes him ever-present figure
    *he’s donated more than £575,000 to Labour politicians in 4 years
    *intimate donor dinners at his Mayfair home
    *lavish late night pool parties with Cabinet ministers at his Kent mansion
    *he’s the donor to go to when Labour politicians need a suit, loan or birthday party paid for
    *£14,000 for ‘events’ for Bridget Phillipson shortly before her 40th bday

    How can Labour be THIS venal, greedy and stupid? It beggars belief. And then Labour would steal belief from the beggar anyway
    Corbyn wouldn't do it!
    Unless it was from Hezbollah, in which case he'd make an exception.
    Corbyn accepted only one bit of hospitality during his tenure as leader: tickets for Glastonbury. Miliband accepted some tickets for the Olympics, and Brown accepted nothing. Blair accepted quite a bit, but, incredibly, Starmer has accepted more hospitality than his four predecessors combined. And his tenure includes a period when no-one was allowed to do anything.
    I suspect Starmer is going to end up hated more bitterly than any PM in modern history. He is already dislikeable - now it turns out he’s greedy and corrupt. And he’s clueless and disapproving and tin-eared. And he has an annoying voice. And little squinty eyes as he frowns at you through his free £20k designer specs, for eating a
    pie without his permission as he steals your granny’s last lump of coal
    That caught my attention, but I see you are being Leonine.

    Mr Starmer has swapped his £500 specs for a £220 version. Both are frame prices.

    I spend about £400-500 a year on specs if I want two pairs (one without reacting lenses for indoors) at Specsavers, which goes on lenses and necessary options, because I have an interesting prescription. That's with a fair amount of discounts and freebies, which at Specsavers are horribly complicated.

    If it was a £500 frame I would be having them re-lensed for the next year.

    I don't see the point of paying £500 for an ordinary looking frame, so count me as baffled on thsi one.
    How much! I've worn fairly potent glasses since I was 3 years old, thanks to being pretty severely short sighted, but I think the most I've spent on a pair was £80 for some safety space ones with toughened lenses...
    I think there's fair comment there, and also this from @carnforth :smile:

    I have a severe astigmatism, and pay about £450 for two pairs (thinnest possible lenses).

    That's about once every five years or so, though. How are you going through a set of lenses in a year? A changing prescription, or wear and tear?


    There are several points there.

    I've had glasses since the age of about 7, and an astigmatism heavy enough that I cannot use online or "select from a range" options. Also, becoming Type I Diabetic in my early 30s - wrong sort of stomach infection - means that my eyes continue to change as I age 25 years on with retinopathy beginning to appear a little. It also means I place a high value on service from a long-term optician relationship. Both are just a part of the diabetes overhead.

    For glasses, my normal options over "basic" are multiway bend-and-recover hinges (I read books and fall asleep and bend normal flimsy ones), thin lenses due to heavy prescription (one from thinnest usually), reactions lenses (I have read too many reports of "but I didn't see him because of the bright sun when I ran him down at 30mph, so it wasn't my fault"), and 'one from the top' varifocals. All those cost more, subject to offers.

    That puts me on ~£100-£130 frames, and by the time I have a second non-light reacting set for indoors in a slightly cheaper frame, and the normal offers on a second pair (one or other feature would be free one one or both pairs), a list price total of £~600-650 will come down to £400-500...
    I'm in a similar position, except that it's every couple of years that I need a prescription change. And I can't drive in bright sunlight without prescription sunglasses.
    Also I can't manage varifocals, so its three pairs - an extra one for computer screen use.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,526

    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    Then you get to remind us all you were right.
    It's well worth picking an extreme outlier position, putting a small amount of money on it. As a bragging, rather than betting, strategy.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 241
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Will there be a "Yes we Kem" if Badenoch becomes favourite the Tories leadership ?

    At the moment she may not even make the final two
    Given that the MPs seem to have split almost 50-50 Jenrick/Badenoch wing vs Cleverly/Tudendhat/Stride then it seems very unlikely she's the Conservative Right candidate who makes the last 2. Next round likely to determine whether it is Cleverly or Tugendhat who is in the final 2 with Jenrick.
    I'm not representative of the electorate so baffled that Jenrick is favoured over Cleverly by them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes

    538 currently has Harris as 64% chance of winning, whereas Silver has Harris at 44% chance of winning - maintaining the 20% differential (note that BF exchange seems to be halfway between the two). This seems quite a big difference as I think they use a broadly similar approach in their models. Does anyone have a serious explanation for the difference?

    Silver says
    The model gives Harris a 49 percent chance of winning Pennsylvania
    But his polling average has Harris 1.4% ahead in Pennsylvania - so why does it give the edge to Trump in this state?

    538 gives Harris a 61% chance of winning Pennsylvania
    538 polling average Harris 1.9% ahead

    So part of the explanation is that Silver's polling average in most swing states is a little more favorable to Trump than the 538 polling average (for whatever reason). But there's got to be more to it than that I think.
    Nate is working for a betting market, with hundreds of millions being staked on the election. I'd merely note that the race remaining close is good for its business, and there's a possible conflict of interest there.
    Nate also considers non polling factors in his model - incumbency effects, economy, historic results etc., IIRC.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    mwadams said:

    Nigelb said:

    What if it's not close ?

    Then you get to remind us all you were right.
    It's well worth picking an extreme outlier position, putting a small amount of money on it. As a bragging, rather than betting, strategy.
    Ah, a variation on the old trick of becoming a horse race guru.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,538
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Meanwhile, in "the electorate is always right, even when they are wrong, but sometimes they are very wrong" news,

    Just 12% of people expect net migration to fall over the first twelve months of the new government; 50% expect it to rise further. (But the 12% are right: immigration is now falling, so net migration will approximately halve this year)

    We asked respondents to estimate the proportion of UK immigration in each of these categories [By giving them 100 points to split between 4 categories]

    Asylum: estimate 37% (actual: 7%)
    Family: estimate 17% (actual 6%)

    Work: estimate 26% (actual 40%)
    Study: estimate 19% (actual 38%)

    Quarter of the public with most liberal views estimate 19% of UK immig is asylum (actual 7%)

    Quarter with most migration sceptic views estimate 47% of immigration is asylum (vs actual 7%)

    Four in ten Reform voters (39%) + 31% of Cons think that more than half of UK immigration is to claim asylum


    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3l4ho4aatin22

    Two points on this - first, Labour will get some benefit just by carrying on as they are now, when the falling numbers become headlines.

    Secondly, it's an illustration of how disastrously managed was the asylum policy.
    The numbers are small in relation to the immigration total, and yet keeping those people effectively detained, in a state of enforced economic inactivity, costs us many billions every year.
    Sorting that out ought to be a political and economic imperative.
    It also illustrates how Reform voters are the most ill-informed people in the country.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    When does he announced National Service for all 18 years olds?
    When Putin makes his move on Alaska...
    No way he'd do that. Sarah Palin would spot the move way in advance, from her house.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,491

    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Will there be a "Yes we Kem" if Badenoch becomes favourite the Tories leadership ?

    At the moment she may not even make the final two
    If she doesn't pick up any votes from Stride (not impossible) and the split goes correctly for them (unlikely, but damn funny), she's out next.
    Cleverly is capturing the Tory Zeitgeist in the Express "Starmer to blame for Channel deaths". He is doing really well with the notion that Labour have lost control of the illegal migration issue that he had resolved to a conclusion by jettisoning the Rwanda scheme. He is very impressive, attacking Jenrick on his USP.

    Kemi confirming she transitioned from posh to peasant by working a summer job in MaccieDs doesn't seem to have pitched herself to the movers and shakers in the wAy she had hoped
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,917
    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes

    538 currently has Harris as 64% chance of winning, whereas Silver has Harris at 44% chance of winning - maintaining the 20% differential (note that BF exchange seems to be halfway between the two). This seems quite a big difference as I think they use a broadly similar approach in their models. Does anyone have a serious explanation for the difference?

    Silver says
    The model gives Harris a 49 percent chance of winning Pennsylvania
    But his polling average has Harris 1.4% ahead in Pennsylvania - so why does it give the edge to Trump in this state?

    538 gives Harris a 61% chance of winning Pennsylvania
    538 polling average Harris 1.9% ahead

    So part of the explanation is that Silver's polling average in most swing states is a little more favorable to Trump than the 538 polling average (for whatever reason). But there's got to be more to it than that I think.
    Nate is working for a betting market, with hundreds of millions being staked on the election. I'd merely note that the race remaining close is good for its business, and there's a possible conflict of interest there.
    Silver wrote a book where he described taking personal stakes of $100K+ in markets he analysed. I would definitely caveat emptor on any of his analysis.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,130
    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    RCP poll average now has Harris leading in the Electoral College on 276 EC votes to 262 for Trump
    "2024 Electoral College: No Toss-Up States | RealClearPolling" https://www.realclearpolling.com/maps/president/2024/no-toss-up/electoral-college-state-changes

    538 currently has Harris as 64% chance of winning, whereas Silver has Harris at 44% chance of winning - maintaining the 20% differential (note that BF exchange seems to be halfway between the two). This seems quite a big difference as I think they use a broadly similar approach in their models. Does anyone have a serious explanation for the difference?

    Silver says
    The model gives Harris a 49 percent chance of winning Pennsylvania
    But his polling average has Harris 1.4% ahead in Pennsylvania - so why does it give the edge to Trump in this state?

    538 gives Harris a 61% chance of winning Pennsylvania
    538 polling average Harris 1.9% ahead

    So part of the explanation is that Silver's polling average in most swing states is a little more favorable to Trump than the 538 polling average (for whatever reason). But there's got to be more to it than that I think.
    Nate is working for a betting market, with hundreds of millions being staked on the election. I'd merely note that the race remaining close is good for its business, and there's a possible conflict of interest there.
    Silver wrote a book where he described taking personal stakes of $100K+ in markets he analysed. I would definitely caveat emptor on any of his analysis.
    I would definitely caveat emptor on any analysis. That includes polling. What we do know is that the race seems tight. In the polling. But we have some unusual effects here - the polarisation of the politics*. And known levels of policing error (say +-3%) could flip lots of states.

    *I continue to believe my thesis that, for Trump especially, the vote is for a semi-mythical thing that he represents. The Really Real True Republican - as opposed to all the RINOs (every semi-normal Republican politician). On the other side, many are voting for the anti-RRTR. This is now Harris.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,367
    edited September 19
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,415
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I expect Trump to pick up Arizona and Georgia, NC and Pennsylvania will be close
    Pennsylvania Presidential Polling:

    Harris (D): 49%
    Trump (R): 46%
    Franklin & Marshall / Sept 16, 2024

    Harris (D): 49%
    Trump (R): 49%
    June Poll:
    Trump (R): 47%
    Biden (D): 45%
    Marist / Sept 17, 2024 / n=1754

    https://x.com/USA_Polling

    I missed out a couple.

    To help you keep track, what we've now seen from Pennsylvania:
    —Quinnipiac: Harris 51/46
    —Suffolk: Harris 49/46
    —F&M: Harris 49/46
    —Marist: tie 49/49

    https://x.com/Taniel/status/1836629332057346460
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    I recall a case, years ago.

    The judge was sentencing a "loan shark" - prosecution under the Consumer Credit act, I think.

    In his sentencing remarks, he was almost apologetic. Apparently the accused had not used threats and had charged a lower rate of interest than some credit cards. As the judge put it, if he had got all the licenses and paperwork done, and issued rectangles of plastic.....
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614
    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    You can go further

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_jubilee
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,130

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,367
    edited September 19
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411
    edited September 19

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Who is "they" - The customer or the lender ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,367
    edited September 19
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Who is "they" ? The customer or the lender ?
    The lender, you’d make the first scheduled payment and they would offer to refinance the loan once the payment cleared.

    Some lenders will allow borrowers to “roll over” their payday loan. If this happens, at the time the original capital and interest is due, the borrower will only pay the interest. Then approximately a month later (typically after their next payday) the borrower will repay the full amount of interest and charges. In some cases we see this has happened several times.

    Some lenders will also allow customers to “top-up” the amount borrowed. This generally involves the borrower asking for extra money after taking the initial loan, which will be repaid (plus interest) at the same time as the original loan was due.


    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/consumer-credit/payday-loans
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Who is "they" ? The customer or the lender ?
    The lender, you’d make the first scheduled payment and they would offer to refinance the loan once the payment cleared.

    Some lenders will allow borrowers to “roll over” their payday loan. If this happens, at the time the original capital and interest is due, the borrower will only pay the interest. Then approximately a month later (typically after their next payday) the borrower will repay the full amount of interest and charges. In some cases we see this has happened several times.

    Some lenders will also allow customers to “top-up” the amount borrowed. This generally involves the borrower asking for extra money after taking the initial loan, which will be repaid (plus interest) at the same time as the original loan was due.


    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/consumer-credit/payday-loans
    Looks like sharp financial practice rather than anything completely wrong like say the hidden commission charges on car finance.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,411

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
    Get yourself to Tesco, used it there yesterday.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    mercator said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
    It used to be *double* that of other cards. I think they have reduced it, but it is still at a premium.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,910

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    They are crap , used to have company one and it was a nightmare getting places that took them , only worse was Diners card. If you relied on that you starved.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    I recall a case, years ago.

    The judge was sentencing a "loan shark" - prosecution under the Consumer Credit act, I think.

    In his sentencing remarks, he was almost apologetic. Apparently the accused had not used threats and had charged a lower rate of interest than some credit cards. As the judge put it, if he had got all the licenses and paperwork done, and issued rectangles of plastic.....
    Indeed.

    But the paperwork is there for a reason (and presumably the mitigating factors would have fed into the sentence).

    I don't think a cap on rates is a crazy idea by any means, although it will be practically difficult. The state regulates all sorts of industries. The effectiveness tends to depend on what opportunities there are to circumvent the intention of the regulation, whether by the providers themselves or by non-regulated actors, plus the impact on the pre-regulated market (a cap of 100% pa on credit cards would have a very different effect on the market from one of 10%).

    Prevention of market abuse is a legitimate business of the government, as is the protection of the vulnerable. The madness of such a scheme would rest in its details rather than its concept.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Who is "they" ? The customer or the lender ?
    The lender, you’d make the first scheduled payment and they would offer to refinance the loan once the payment cleared.

    Some lenders will allow borrowers to “roll over” their payday loan. If this happens, at the time the original capital and interest is due, the borrower will only pay the interest. Then approximately a month later (typically after their next payday) the borrower will repay the full amount of interest and charges. In some cases we see this has happened several times.

    Some lenders will also allow customers to “top-up” the amount borrowed. This generally involves the borrower asking for extra money after taking the initial loan, which will be repaid (plus interest) at the same time as the original loan was due.


    https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/consumer-credit/payday-loans
    Looks like sharp financial practice rather than anything completely wrong like say the hidden commission charges on car finance.
    Isn't it precisely and exactly what every credit card ever issued does? I freeload on the system by paying in full every month but I am offered the alternative of making a "minimum payment" with the balance presumably compounding.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,972
    HYUFD said:

    Taz said:

    Will there be a "Yes we Kem" if Badenoch becomes favourite the Tories leadership ?

    At the moment she may not even make the final two
    This latest interview was not exactly impressive.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,143
    edited September 19

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    I recall a case, years ago.

    The judge was sentencing a "loan shark" - prosecution under the Consumer Credit act, I think.

    In his sentencing remarks, he was almost apologetic. Apparently the accused had not used threats and had charged a lower rate of interest than some credit cards. As the judge put it, if he had got all the licenses and paperwork done, and issued rectangles of plastic.....
    Indeed.

    But the paperwork is there for a reason (and presumably the mitigating factors would have fed into the sentence).

    I don't think a cap on rates is a crazy idea by any means, although it will be practically difficult. The state regulates all sorts of industries. The effectiveness tends to depend on what opportunities there are to circumvent the intention of the regulation, whether by the providers themselves or by non-regulated actors, plus the impact on the pre-regulated market (a cap of 100% pa on credit cards would have a very different effect on the market from one of 10%).

    Prevention of market abuse is a legitimate business of the government, as is the protection of the vulnerable. The madness of such a scheme would rest in its details rather than its concept.
    Oh indeed. As others have pointed out (above) the abuses of the payday loan industry are getting people to sign on the dotted line for described terms and conditions. Which are abusive, despite being sorta-voluntarily* entered into.

    *I hesitate to use voluntary in this context. Desperate might well be a better description, on average.

    EDIT - in the American context, there is a big thing in Community Finance. Which despite the whole fluffy image, charges very high rates of interest. And is very well connected to politicians, via activist groups, usually.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997

    mercator said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
    It used to be *double* that of other cards. I think they have reduced it, but it is still at a premium.
    Many, many years ago, when I was involved in retailing Amex offered a year at 0%, obviously as a tempter. So I gave it a go. We didn't have many sales.
    The next year renewal was, IIRC, upwards of 10% of sales, which for some items was more than my margin. So we stopped.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,254
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
    I can. Brighton and Hove Albion - the AMEX Stadium.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,132
    On topic: I don't agree that Donald Trump is becoming value at 2.2. I think that's way too short. He's being priced as the candidate he was not the candidate he is now. On track to poll below 45% and lose easily imo. Very confident. Not dreading Nov 5th, looking forward to it.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
    Aldi do.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    Amex + airlines is the sweet spot, so Amex makes more sense in the United States, land of the frequent flyers, and for people like Leon. Otherwise you're paying £15 a week for a card to impress the golf club barman who regrets he can't accept it.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,556

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I'd be extremely wary about making bullish predictions like that. There are certainly credible scenarios that lead to a Harris landslide (FWIW, I think Texas falls to her before Florida these days), but they're not the central case by any means.

    Trump has enough form from 2016 and 2020 for engaging new / marginalised voters that didn't show up in earlier voting to make me sceptical about the accuracy of all US polling at the moment. The state polls in 2020 were particularly poor (which is thoroughly unhelpful when they're also so critical). They weren't much better in 2016. Plus there's the issue of him having sought to install officials running these elections who will do everything they can to deliver him the result administratively, if he doesn't win via the vote (and to bias the voting procedures to him too). Obviously, those are in places where Republicans have already won so in many cases not swing states - but in some they will be. That's a critical lesson he learned from 2020. Plus, of course, the Electoral College is currently biased to the Republicans in terms of national vote.

    Trump still hasn't really found an effective attack line on Harris, or a one-word nickname that puts the necessary doubt in independents and marginal voters rather than his core - but that doesn't mean he won't, though time is rapidly running out.

    Personally, I make the race extremely tight, with Trump marginal favourite, albeit that his ceiling is lower than Harris's, both in ECVs and vote totals.
  • mercator said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
    Nah, it helps fund the excellent service they give me.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,135
    Just out of the briefing on the hiring freeze, the main reasons given are the uncertainty around what the new government is proposing on tax, worker rights and the economic outlook in the UK and more widely in Europe. Hence the investment now being shifted to APAC.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 951

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I wonder what the odds are that she wins NC and loses GA.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,871

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I'd be extremely wary about making bullish predictions like that. There are certainly credible scenarios that lead to a Harris landslide (FWIW, I think Texas falls to her before Florida these days), but they're not the central case by any means.

    Trump has enough form from 2016 and 2020 for engaging new / marginalised voters that didn't show up in earlier voting to make me sceptical about the accuracy of all US polling at the moment. The state polls in 2020 were particularly poor (which is thoroughly unhelpful when they're also so critical). They weren't much better in 2016. Plus there's the issue of him having sought to install officials running these elections who will do everything they can to deliver him the result administratively, if he doesn't win via the vote (and to bias the voting procedures to him too). Obviously, those are in places where Republicans have already won so in many cases not swing states - but in some they will be. That's a critical lesson he learned from 2020. Plus, of course, the Electoral College is currently biased to the Republicans in terms of national vote.

    Trump still hasn't really found an effective attack line on Harris, or a one-word nickname that puts the necessary doubt in independents and marginal voters rather than his core - but that doesn't mean he won't, though time is rapidly running out.

    Personally, I make the race extremely tight, with Trump marginal favourite, albeit that his ceiling is lower than Harris's, both in ECVs and vote totals.
    It comes down to Pennsylvania and Georgia in my view, Harris just needs to win one while Trump needs to win both to win
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,254

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    Amex + airlines is the sweet spot, so Amex makes more sense in the United States, land of the frequent flyers, and for people like Leon. Otherwise you're paying £15 a week for a card to impress the golf club barman who regrets he can't accept it.
    My son works for Amex - has done for 13 years. They are unimpeachably Woke, but a good employer. They do some good - as well as supporting community stuff, for example, each month they send out a team to a local hospice for a full day to tidy up the gardens and do odd jobs.
  • Children in Sweden are to start school at six years old from 2028, a year earlier than at present, in an overhaul of the country’s education system that signals a switch from play-based teaching for younger children.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/sep/19/swedish-children-to-start-school-a-year-earlier-six

    There's your cure for our bankrupt school system. Join the Scandinavians in starting school at seven, thus saving the expense of two whole school years. You could do the same at the other end by letting them leave at 16 again. That is about a third of British kids' time in school that other countries deem unnecessary.

    Governments are scared to admit it is about babysitting at one end and fiddling unemployment figures at the other.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,997

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I'd be extremely wary about making bullish predictions like that. There are certainly credible scenarios that lead to a Harris landslide (FWIW, I think Texas falls to her before Florida these days), but they're not the central case by any means.

    Trump has enough form from 2016 and 2020 for engaging new / marginalised voters that didn't show up in earlier voting to make me sceptical about the accuracy of all US polling at the moment. The state polls in 2020 were particularly poor (which is thoroughly unhelpful when they're also so critical). They weren't much better in 2016. Plus there's the issue of him having sought to install officials running these elections who will do everything they can to deliver him the result administratively, if he doesn't win via the vote (and to bias the voting procedures to him too). Obviously, those are in places where Republicans have already won so in many cases not swing states - but in some they will be. That's a critical lesson he learned from 2020. Plus, of course, the Electoral College is currently biased to the Republicans in terms of national vote.

    Trump still hasn't really found an effective attack line on Harris, or a one-word nickname that puts the necessary doubt in independents and marginal voters rather than his core - but that doesn't mean he won't, though time is rapidly running out.

    Personally, I make the race extremely tight, with Trump marginal favourite, albeit that his ceiling is lower than Harris's, both in ECVs and vote totals.
    The Channel 4 programmes last night and the night before made it clear that Republican election officials who were anxious to do the job properly and honestly were put under a great deal of pressure, both by Trump himself and by the madder of his supporters. Whether some of this interviewed would vote for him this year was, I think, left open to doubt.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614

    mercator said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
    It used to be *double* that of other cards. I think they have reduced it, but it is still at a premium.
    Many, many years ago, when I was involved in retailing Amex offered a year at 0%, obviously as a tempter. So I gave it a go. We didn't have many sales.
    The next year renewal was, IIRC, upwards of 10% of sales, which for some items was more than my margin. So we stopped.
    I took it for a time, made 3 sales a year, got bored and stopped. Blow me down, the afternoon after the morning I cancelled it I got a call from a chinless wonder sounding bloke on a London number pretending he wanted to spend mega bucks with me but me not taking amex was a deal breaker. Also they never really recovered in my mind from the ?Not The 9 O'clock News commercial: American Express? Certainly sir, and would you like to feel my tits?

    I don't see why this is such a terrible idea, just because Trump. Everyone hates banks and loves debt forgiveness. It may also be a terrible idea but still a vote winner.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614

    mercator said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    The cut they want from the retailer is ridiculous.
    Nah, it helps fund the excellent service they give me.
    Just as long as you realise who ultimately pays that cut.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,533
    mercator said:


    I don't see why this is such a terrible idea, just because Trump. Everyone hates banks and loves debt forgiveness. It may also be a terrible idea but still a vote winner.

    Yeah, it's one of those populist things with a genuinely progressive angle to them. The way for the Dems to handle these is just to put it in a bill themselves and let everyone watch the House GOP vote it down.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,284
    At what point today do the “corrupt Sir Keir stayed in a mate’s flat” posts begin? :D
  • Labour cock-up on the Thames.

    Steve Reed aims to be Labour's Chris Grayling:-

    The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, announced ambitions to prioritise an area of the river in Teddington, south-west London, to make it safe and clean for swimming as part of a new 10-year strategy to reduce pollution in the river and encourage people to spend time in and around it.

    Supporting Khan as he made the announcement was the environment secretary, Steve Reed. But Reed just last week approved the next stage in the development of a controversial scheme to allow Thames Water to pump 75m litres a day of treated sewage into the river at the same spot in Teddington.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/18/labour-in-apparent-disarray-over-thames-cleanup-plan
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    Amex + airlines is the sweet spot, so Amex makes more sense in the United States, land of the frequent flyers, and for people like Leon. Otherwise you're paying £15 a week for a card to impress the golf club barman who regrets he can't accept it.
    My airline wheeze is to have a Lloyds platinum card in the name Dr X (a PhD which I otherwise never ever ever disclose) in the so far vain hope it makes me look like upgrade material. More likely to have me supervising an ad hoc tracheotomy at Angels 30.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,526

    Scott_xP said:

    The issue for Starmer isn't that he is getting a load of freebies, it is he made an absolute massive play on he was only in it for the public service, always country before party, cronyism has to end....

    Free Gear Keir
    Well, Two Tier Keir completely flopped, so his critics might as well try something else.
    Do you remember Gordon Brittas? That was the classic of the genre.
    It was ahead of its time.

    "From now on, all high-caffeine energy drinks are to be banned from the leisure centre."

    image
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,293

    Labour cock-up on the Thames.

    Steve Reed aims to be Labour's Chris Grayling:-

    The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, announced ambitions to prioritise an area of the river in Teddington, south-west London, to make it safe and clean for swimming as part of a new 10-year strategy to reduce pollution in the river and encourage people to spend time in and around it.

    Supporting Khan as he made the announcement was the environment secretary, Steve Reed. But Reed just last week approved the next stage in the development of a controversial scheme to allow Thames Water to pump 75m litres a day of treated sewage into the river at the same spot in Teddington.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/sep/18/labour-in-apparent-disarray-over-thames-cleanup-plan

    Three ways to see this:

    *) Classic cock-up.
    *) A quick, cheap win: order the dumping of sewage, then stop it! Result - we've cleaned up the river!
    *) There was a short-term need to dump the sewage; this will be fixed in the next few years.

    Take your pick!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,307
    edited September 19
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
    My local pub and local Tesco and wine supplier all accept AMEX. So does Amazon. I have no problem with it. I get back about £10 a month in Nector points which more than covers the annual fee which I think is £25. I clear the account each month so pay no interest.
  • At what point today do the “corrupt Sir Keir stayed in a mate’s flat” posts begin? :D

    again a bit arrogant =its a legitimate debate and you are only saying that as you support the left generally
  • Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Taz said:

    The latest crazy idea from Team Trump.

    https://jabberwocking.com/sure-donald-lets-cap-interest-rates/

    A temporary cap on interest rates on credit card rates.

    I have no enthusiasm for Kamala Harris but Trump is just mad.

    Probably at temporary as the temporary windfall tax we have on oil and gas companies.

    Didn't we do something similar with payday lenders.
    Yes. It’s a really difficult industry to regulate, because you have a high risk of delinquency but also many ‘unofficial’ sources of lending available to the poorest.
    It wasn’t lending, it was usury.

    The truly evil thing about the payday lenders was them letting the loans rollover.

    So a customer took out a £1,000 loan for 12 months and after they first payment they would refinance the loan for another 12 months, so after 12 months the customer had paid back £1,800 but their debt was around £800.
    Glad to see you agreeing with Trump.
    Credit cards generally do not have usury rates of interest.

    (One of my AMEX cards has an APR of 800% but that’s because of the fee.)

    Edit - The Platinum Card has a competitive APR of 704% because of the annual fee of £650.

    https://www.americanexpress.com/en-gb/credit-cards/platinum-card/?linknav=en-gb-amex-cardshop-allcards-text-PlatinumCard-fc&cpid=100511471&sourcecode=A0000EV0K9
    Does anyone anywhere actually accept American Express? Maybe it's only the kind of places I wouldn't want to be in the first place.
    Really good hotels, bars, restaurants, sporting/gig venues.

    The concierge services they offer are amazing.
    I can't remember the last place I went that would accept AMEX.
    Get yourself to Tesco, used it there yesterday.
    best to combine clubcard with a cashback card at Tesco
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614

    At what point today do the “corrupt Sir Keir stayed in a mate’s flat” posts begin? :D

    Is he still cosying up to the biggest fascist in Europe? As Vince Cable memorably said, The house has noticed the prime minister's remarkable transformation in the past few weeks - from Inspector Klouseau to The Great Dictator.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,200
    Two advantages of the plain, no-fee UK AMEX credit card:

    - 1% cashback on everything
    - They let you set up a direct debit to pay the entire balance each month, almost as if it's a chargecard. So you can guarantee no interest is charged.

    I only use it in places I already know take it, though.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,322
    mercator said:

    At what point today do the “corrupt Sir Keir stayed in a mate’s flat” posts begin? :D

    Is he still cosying up to the biggest fascist in Europe? As Vince Cable memorably said, The house has noticed the prime minister's remarkable transformation in the past few weeks - from Inspector Klouseau to The Great Dictator.
    If you are referring to Georgia Meloni then I think we can give him a pass for cosying up to her, she’s hot and she buys her own clothes.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,132

    I don't see Harris losing any of the states that Biden won in 2020.

    I also expect her to win North Carolina.

    And Florida iasn't yet out of reach.

    I'd be extremely wary about making bullish predictions like that. There are certainly credible scenarios that lead to a Harris landslide (FWIW, I think Texas falls to her before Florida these days), but they're not the central case by any means.

    Trump has enough form from 2016 and 2020 for engaging new / marginalised voters that didn't show up in earlier voting to make me sceptical about the accuracy of all US polling at the moment. The state polls in 2020 were particularly poor (which is thoroughly unhelpful when they're also so critical). They weren't much better in 2016. Plus there's the issue of him having sought to install officials running these elections who will do everything they can to deliver him the result administratively, if he doesn't win via the vote (and to bias the voting procedures to him too). Obviously, those are in places where Republicans have already won so in many cases not swing states - but in some they will be. That's a critical lesson he learned from 2020. Plus, of course, the Electoral College is currently biased to the Republicans in terms of national vote.

    Trump still hasn't really found an effective attack line on Harris, or a one-word nickname that puts the necessary doubt in independents and marginal voters rather than his core - but that doesn't mean he won't, though time is rapidly running out.

    Personally, I make the race extremely tight, with Trump marginal favourite, albeit that his ceiling is lower than Harris's, both in ECVs and vote totals.
    All valid points, David, but for me overwhelmed by the strong sense of something on the turn and going off, something which has had its time, the 'something' being Donald Trump. If you feel this way the best time to say so - and to bet on it - is before it's fully reflected in the polls. Eg right now you can get decent prices (via the EC bands market on betfair) on a big Harris win. That's what I'm doing.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 614
    MaxPB said:

    Just out of the briefing on the hiring freeze, the main reasons given are the uncertainty around what the new government is proposing on tax, worker rights and the economic outlook in the UK and more widely in Europe. Hence the investment now being shifted to APAC.

    And that's lost business for UK plc all because of Rachel's phoney war. Still, only 41 sleeps to budget day.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,337
    edited September 19

    At what point today do the “corrupt Sir Keir stayed in a mate’s flat” posts begin? :D

    again a bit arrogant =its a legitimate debate and you are only saying that as you support the left generally
    Some posters prefer to debate what topics should be discussed on PB.com, rather than debating something itself.

    Something like:
    Small minds debate the topic of debate, average minds debate political issues, great minds share a value betting tip.
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