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Labour’s taxing problem – politicalbetting.com

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  • sladeslade Posts: 2,137
    MattW said:

    She's very good on the radio in relaxed interview format. Try Ramblings R4 on Sat 6:30am I think - walking with a guest.

    Slightly Jolly Hockey Sticks (she's a Downe House girl), but OK.

    She is also a very good speaker to an audience. Saw her on Cunard talking about her favourite subjects - horses and dogs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641
    Cookie said:

    Indeed.
    One of the thing which frustrates me about Labour government - the last lot were just as bad - is an apparent blindness to the fact that people (and indeed businesses) respond to things which are incentives/disincentives to do things by doing more or less of those things.
    This is what comes of electing lawyers and religious types rather than psychologists or economists, even advertisers at a pinch. Their instinct is to reach for laws and commandments rather than incentives.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,871

    Oh dear, another day with the PB-rightists foaming at the mouth that a Labour government has the audacity to, er... actually govern.

    Did you think they would just follow the Tory playbook?

    Putin's governing.

    Hitler governed.

    Mao governed.

    People - even political opponents - complaining about how a government governs does not mean that the government is doing the right thing.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,420

    Any idea as to motive? They've ruled out terrorism. He's 17 so not the parent of any of the children. And he had to get a cab to what is by all accounts an out of the way location, which rules out a random attack by a mentally ill stranger. Could it have been he was groomed by someone who did have a motive?
    Oh no it doesn't (even if you think it should).
  • eek said:

    one of the best locations is car parks - added benefit the shade will keep cars cooler...
    And the electricity can be used to recharge the cars that are parked there.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,507
    eek said:

    one of the best locations is car parks - added benefit the shade will keep cars cooler...
    As we build out grid connections for EV charging to car parks, hooking up solar becomes a no brainer as well.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,211

    Oh dear, another day with the PB-rightists foaming at the mouth that a Labour government has the audacity to, er... actually govern.

    Did you think they would just follow the Tory playbook?

    Aren’t people allowed to debate and critique government policy, or does that only apply when the Tories are in government?

    I’m quite happy to criticise Labour (who I voted for) and I was exceptionally happy to criticise the Tories.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397

    Microsoft Azure is having problems
    https://azure.status.microsoft/en-gb/status

    Northern Europe so will only impact very old implementations in the UK..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Cookie said:

    That's just incredible.
    OK, it's early afternoon on a sunny day in mid-July.
    But if you'd shown that stat to someone 30 years ago it would have seemed the stuff of fantasy. Even 10 years ago it would have been wildly improbable.

    The even better thing is that we are nowhere close to the peak of what we could easily be generating with solar. The number of houses with solar panels is, what, about 10%? (Wildly unscientific survey based on a look out of the window). I salivate to think what this figure will be in a decade's time.
    I was told on PB that this was ridiculous a while back.
    The addition of cheaper coupled battery storage - which is inevitable within a year or three - will increase take up massively.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,907
    edited July 2024
    "Cameron Easley
    @cameron_easley

    NEW: Harris maintains 1-point lead over Trump in latest @MorningConsult tracker update, but the biggest story is her favorability, which is up 12 net points since last week, driven by upticks among Democrats and independents.

    https://pro.morningconsult.com/trackers/2024-presidential-election-polling"

    https://x.com/cameron_easley/status/1818036840118764014
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,049
    eek said:

    one of the best locations is car parks - added benefit the shade will keep cars cooler...
    There's still an awful lot of low-hanging fruit for solar, especially now the panels themselves are so cheap.

    5 GW or so to start getting periods of time where we don't need gas...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 29,641

    And the electricity can be used to recharge the cars that are parked there.
    Hmm. I know someone who came up with that idea for a business some 15 or more years back but the technology wasn't ready at the time. You could only do one car a day, or something.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    edited July 2024

    Good small step in the right direction.

    If you want 200k achieved, aim for 300k
    If you want 300k achieved, aim for 450k

    Etc
    Yes - but they still have to deliver.
    We'll know within a year if it's at all likely, I think.
    If they don't make the required legislative/planning/policy changes by then, it probably won't in this Parliament.

    And 370k is an almost unprecedented target. It will take a sea change in policy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    Cookie said:

    You lot had it easy. The Conservatives never actually did anything right wing. You had to content yourselves with complaining about the ineffectual right wing noises they were making.
    True to a point: the Tories found it quite difficult to do anything very much. But the few things they did attempt included quite a few right-wing nasties: Rwanda, trashing EU relationships, voter ID...

    But yeah, mostly they didn't manage to do too much.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    edited July 2024

    I've seen rumours of the culprit circulate rapidly on social media/WhatsApp today. No media outlet daring to fill in the blanks.

    Biggest giveaway is the Mayor of Liverpool "warning people not to speculate on the identity of the culprit", which in and of itself gives a bit of the game away.
    There's no need for rumours: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:41e0a685-70bf-4606-bcd4-013cdf5c3e1f#post
    Some made up shit widely shared online is indeed made up shit - the suspect is British born and bred (for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents).
    It is not legal at present to name the individual, I believe.

    ETA: An earlier version of the post explicitly stated that the quoted name was incorrect, which is not there now, but the BBC would not be sharing this name if it was known or suspected to be correct.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    Nigelb said:

    I was told on PB that this was ridiculous a while back.
    The addition of cheaper coupled battery storage - which is inevitable within a year or three - will increase take up massively.
    The cheap mass battery storage always seems to be a year or three away, like Thorium Reactors and Fusion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,003
    Stride drifted out to 27 / 38. One stride forward...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    Nigelb said:

    Yes - but they still have to deliver.
    We'll know within a year if it's at all likely, I think.
    If they don't make the required legislative/planning/policy changes by then, it probably won't in this Parliament.

    And 370k is an almost unprecedented target. It will take a sea change in policy.
    Presumably what's needed is forcing councils to build a set quota of house as per the 1950s council house boom.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,907
    edited July 2024
    Interesting.

    "A social-media account for white male supporters of Kamala Harris was briefly suspended from X, formerly Twitter, sparking anger online. Newsweek observed that the White Dudes for Harris X account had been temporarily suspended after the group held a star-studded virtual call on Monday night that raised more than $4 million. It is not clear why the account was suspended, but it appeared to have been restored as of the early hours of Tuesday. The automated message when the account was suspended read: "X suspends accounts which violate the X rules." Mike Nellis, who is involved in the organization, shared an update on Tuesday explaining that while the X account is live again, it still remains suspended."

    https://www.newsweek.com/white-dudes-harris-x-suspension-1931827
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197

    The cheap mass battery storage always seems to be a year or three away, like Thorium Reactors and Fusion.
    No, it's pretty well here already.
    I'm only cautious because this is the UK.
  • Cookie said:

    That's just incredible.
    OK, it's early afternoon on a sunny day in mid-July.
    But if you'd shown that stat to someone 30 years ago it would have seemed the stuff of fantasy. Even 10 years ago it would have been wildly improbable.

    The even better thing is that we are nowhere close to the peak of what we could easily be generating with solar. The number of houses with solar panels is, what, about 10%? (Wildly unscientific survey based on a look out of the window). I salivate to think what this figure will be in a decade's time.
    I think it's about half that in terms of households with solar. It should be said that there is a reason for that - even with higher energy prices, the investment just isn't worth it for a lot of people in terms of the time it would take to recover the up-front cost (and potential for repair costs) given the roof space, direction in which it faces, and part of the country.

    That might well shift over time, but the fact we could have more solar panels in more places isn't some secret - it's just that a lot of people have done the maths and it doesn't at the moment add up. That's hard-nosed businesses as well as individuals. I mean Tesco have a lot of car parks and a lot of roofs - some have solar panels, but a lot don't and not, I suspect, because they haven't considered if it's a good investment.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 825
    edited July 2024
    Pulpstar said:

    Stride drifted out to 27 / 38. One stride forward...

    had only drifted in on pennies.

    27 is probably not worth it but if I wasn't already long 40 then I'd be on that 38 offer (well there is a confusing mix of terminology, heh).

    I want Jenrick to shorten to under 3 so I can lay the bastard and have a financial reward if he loses, not just a moral one.
  • Nigelb said:

    Yes - but they still have to deliver.
    We'll know within a year if it's at all likely, I think.
    If they don't make the required legislative/planning/policy changes by then, it probably won't in this Parliament.

    And 370k is an almost unprecedented target. It will take a sea change in policy.
    And dismantling of various sacred cow acts that put all sorts of expensive bureacratic tasks challengeable in court between buy ground and start building.

    Equality impact assessment on whether the impact on nitrate discharges will result in Newts being more racist and the like.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,080
    eek said:

    Northern Europe so will only impact very old implementations in the UK..
    We JUST finished a deployment in Northern Europe
  • The cheap mass battery storage always seems to be a year or three away, like Thorium Reactors and Fusion.
    Cheap mass battery storage is here today, and its getting cheaper every year.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,142
    edited July 2024

    True to a point: the Tories found it quite difficult to do anything very much. But the few things they did attempt included quite a few right-wing nasties: Rwanda, trashing EU relationships, voter ID...

    But yeah, mostly they didn't manage to do too much.
    The things you cite are all Blairite policies.

    Blair make a speciality of tabloid-friendly aslyum policies, trashed European relationships over the Iraq war and other things, and promoted an expansion of the use of ID documentation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632
    Selebian said:

    There's no need for rumours: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:41e0a685-70bf-4606-bcd4-013cdf5c3e1f#post
    Some made up shit widely shared online is indeed made up shit - the suspect is British born and bred (for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents).
    It is not legal at present to name the individual, I believe.

    ETA: An earlier version of the post explicitly stated that the quoted name was incorrect, which is not there now, but the BBC would not be sharing this name if it was known or suspected to be correct.
    A pedant notes: surely born and bred implies that his parents and his parents' parents and his parents' parents' parents were all British? People often describe themselves as being born and bred somewhere when they mean born and raised. Unless they are talking about 'bred' in the sense of where their parents were when they were conceived. Which is information most people don't care to think about too much, let alone proudly trumpet.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    Scott_xP said:

    We JUST finished a deployment in Northern Europe
    if you started there it makes sense - but most of the work I do moved is UK based because it started after the UK region was announced...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098

    The things you cite are all Blairite policies.

    Blair make a speciality of tabloid-friendly aslyum policies, trashed European relationships over the Iraq war and other things, and promoted an expansion of the use of ID documentation.
    Desperate stuff, William, desperate stuff.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397

    Cheap mass battery storage is here today, and its getting cheaper every year.
    LFP battery prices are $75/kWh factory at the moment in China, which is the point where the cost is definitely in the configuration rather than the battery themselves.

    For reference Fogstar do a 15.5kwh pack for £2500 including VAT to show the lowest UK cost at the moment..
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,142

    Desperate stuff, William, desperate stuff.
    Perhaps the uncomfortable truth is that Labour are better at nationalism than the Tories.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Selebian said:

    There's no need for rumours: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t?post=asset:41e0a685-70bf-4606-bcd4-013cdf5c3e1f#post
    Some made up shit widely shared online is indeed made up shit - the suspect is British born and bred (for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents).
    It is not legal at present to name the individual, I believe.

    ETA: An earlier version of the post explicitly stated that the quoted name was incorrect, which is not there now, but the BBC would not be sharing this name if it was known or suspected to be correct.
    "for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents"

    So he's black? I thought Black Lives Matter? i thought skin colour was of paramount importance? I thought we were all meant to focus on the amounts of pignentation in our epidermis? As it trumps all other human attributes?

    That is, until a heinous and horrific crime is committed by a black person, and then suddenly mentioning their skin colour makes you a racist, and blackness doesn't matter at all?

    Confused of Auvergne
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632

    I think it's about half that in terms of households with solar. It should be said that there is a reason for that - even with higher energy prices, the investment just isn't worth it for a lot of people in terms of the time it would take to recover the up-front cost (and potential for repair costs) given the roof space, direction in which it faces, and part of the country.

    That might well shift over time, but the fact we could have more solar panels in more places isn't some secret - it's just that a lot of people have done the maths and it doesn't at the moment add up. That's hard-nosed businesses as well as individuals. I mean Tesco have a lot of car parks and a lot of roofs - some have solar panels, but a lot don't and not, I suspect, because they haven't considered if it's a good investment.
    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    Cookie said:

    A pedant notes: surely born and bred implies that his parents and his parents' parents and his parents' parents' parents were all British? People often describe themselves as being born and bred somewhere when they mean born and raised. Unless they are talking about 'bred' in the sense of where their parents were when they were conceived. Which is information most people don't care to think about too much, let alone proudly trumpet.
    I do indeed mean born and raised - that was how I'd always understood the phrase.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,742
    edited July 2024

    I think it's about half that in terms of households with solar. It should be said that there is a reason for that - even with higher energy prices, the investment just isn't worth it for a lot of people in terms of the time it would take to recover the up-front cost (and potential for repair costs) given the roof space, direction in which it faces, and part of the country.

    That might well shift over time, but the fact we could have more solar panels in more places isn't some secret - it's just that a lot of people have done the maths and it doesn't at the moment add up. That's hard-nosed businesses as well as individuals. I mean Tesco have a lot of car parks and a lot of roofs - some have solar panels, but a lot don't and not, I suspect, because they haven't considered if it's a good investment.
    What is deeply frustrating (at least for those like me obsessed with the balance of payments) is that even with those figures we are only generating about 84% of the power we need and are importing the rest. We really want to get to a situation between wind and solar that we are a net exporter of energy. We are a long way short of that.
    https://grid.iamkate.com/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,822

    Its not that complicated.

    If they don't build phase 2a to Crewe, six tracks (four Trent Valley and Two HS2) will converge on un grade separated Colwich Junction and two track Shugborough Tunnel.

    It's a total clusterfuck. That is such a pinchpoint that an upgrade to bypass it all was already planned before being canned when HS2 came along.
    Er, the Stone avoiding line diverges *before* Shugborough Tunnel. So it's four lines, not two, that operate there.

    It would still be a pinch point but not quite as bad a one as you think.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    Scott_xP said:

    We JUST finished a deployment in Northern Europe
    And the network infrastructure issue is now worldwide.

    Glad I'm not working at MS at the moment...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    edited July 2024
    Leon said:

    "for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents"

    So he's black? I thought Black Lives Matter? i thought skin colour was of paramount importance? I thought we were all meant to focus on the amounts of pignentation in our epidermis? As it trumps all other human attributes?

    That is, until a heinous and horrific crime is committed by a black person, and then suddenly mentioning their skin colour makes you a racist, and blackness doesn't matter at all?

    Confused of Auvergne
    The skin colour doesn't matter to me,* why should it? It's also not actually known to me from the reports I have read - it will be known to some from witness accounts, of course. Personally I have a close friend of Pakistani ethnicity whose parents immigrated from Africa (father from Rwanda, in fact), so while Black seems likely, it's not a given.

    If having immigrant parents is in any way relevant then it's likely from an upbringing and/or religion angle, but given the statement that it doesn't seem to be terror related, we can presumably rule out Islamic or other extremism.

    So, again, is the second generation immigrant status of any relevance, is it a sever mental health issue (with possible, unknown at present and maybe absent) links to chronic underfunding of CAMHS in the country or is it somethine else entirely. I suggest we wait for the facts.

    *It's also of bugger all relevance in the Manchester airport police incident, unless you believe the officer was racially motivated - I think he just got angry in a situation where he/colleagues had been attacked
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Given how infectious it is, this could ruin quite a few athlete's games.

    Australian swimming camp hit by Covid as medal hope Lani Pallister tests positive
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/30/paris-olympics-australia-swimming-lani-pallister-tests-positive-covid

    I hope team GB have a stock of rapid tests and FFP2 masks.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,071

    I may need to look at these games, and pulling my kids out of private school, when we get to the Autumn and we know the lie of the land in the budget. Already tough as it is. It will get harder.

    Of course, that will mean much less tax for the exchequer, and a bigger burden on the State, but hey ho, that's what you get when you try and squeeze people dry.
    After the two directors of my small firm sold their holding and invested the proceeds, they promptly went to a 3 day week. A colleague approaching retirement with a few small pensions and 2 buy-to-lets went down to 4 days, reducing to 3 next year for that very reason.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    ydoethur said:

    Er, the Stone avoiding line diverges *before* Shugborough Tunnel. So it's four lines, not two, that operate there.

    It would still be a pinch point but not quite as bad a one as you think.
    Slow lines are on the outside, fast lines are in the middle - it really is as bad as implied.
  • I approve this message…
    LOL, I very nearly tagged you in that post but wasn't sure you'd approve of that!
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,561
    Nigelb said:

    Given how infectious it is, this could ruin quite a few athlete's games.

    Australian swimming camp hit by Covid as medal hope Lani Pallister tests positive
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/30/paris-olympics-australia-swimming-lani-pallister-tests-positive-covid

    I hope team GB have a stock of rapid tests and FFP2 masks.

    Adam Peaty tested positive the other day. too late already if it's an issue
  • Cheap mass battery storage is here today, and its getting cheaper every year.
    Cheap and Mass are imprecise
    Cookie said:

    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
    It is the same reason that any railway track alterations or enhancements are very expensive unless done at the same time as a general resignalling.

    As ever the problem is getting the benefits yourself rather than lining the pockets of vsrious middlemen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,197
    Cookie said:

    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
    It fits pretty well with the new house build targets, then.
    As for your question - get an EV at some point.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,142
    Selebian said:

    The skin colour doesn't matter to me,* why should it? It's also not actually known to me from the reports I have read - it will be known to some from witness accounts, of course. Personally I have a close friend of Pakistani ethnicity whose parents immigrated from Africa (father from Rwanda, in fact), so while Black seems likely, it's not a given.

    If having immigrant parents is in any way relevant then it's likely from an upbringing and/or religion angle, but given the statement that it doesn't seem to be terror related, we can presumably rule out Islamic or other extremism.

    So, again, is the second generation immigrant status of any relevance, is it a sever mental health issue (with possible, unknown at present and maybe absent) links to chronic underfunding of CAMHS in the country or is it somethine else entirely. I suggest we wait for the facts.

    *It's also of bugger all relevance in the Manchester airport police incident, unless you believe the officer was racially motivated - I think he just got angry in a situation where he/colleagues had been attacked
    Is it not possible that ethnic resentment was a motivating factor in which case it is highly relevant? The line between terrorism and mental health issues can get very blurred at times.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,606

    Scotland offered and had accepted 17.5 percent over two years about a year ago;

    https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/junior-doctors-in-scotland-accept-pay-offer
    Indeed.

    And "celtic fringe", as well as being mistyped, is inaccurate and therefore meaningless. It'd better describe a haircut bought at the barber's opposite Parkhead Stadium.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Selebian said:

    The skin colour doesn't matter to me,* why should it? It's also not actually known to me from the reports I have read - it will be known to some from witness accounts, of course. Personally I have a close friend of Pakistani ethnicity whose parents immigrated from Africa (father from Rwanda, in fact), so while Black seems likely, it's not a given.

    If having immigrant parents is in any way relevant then it's likely from an upbringing and/or religion angle, but given the statement that it doesn't seem to be terror related, we can presumably rule out Islamic or other extremism.

    So, again, is the second generation immigrant status of any relevance, is it a sever mental health issue (with possible, unknown at present and maybe absent) links to chronic underfunding of CAMHS in the country or is it somethine else entirely. I suggest we wait for the facts.

    *It's also of bugger all relevance in the Manchester airport police incident, unless you believe the officer was racially motivated - I think he just got angry in a situation where he/colleagues had been attacked
    There have been several eye witness reports which have made it through the intense media blackout on speculation. I was wary of them at first - the initial blaze of misinformation - but they all describe the assailant as "very dark"

    Given that it is confirmed his family are Rwandan, it sounds extremely likely that he is black African

    Now, in an ideal world, this should not matter. i would love to live in a world where it did not matter. But for the last 5-10 years the Woke left has been telling us that skin colour - literally, the colour of your skin, especially black skin - matters more than anything else in the world. If that is the case, then it also matters here
  • Cheap and Mass are imprecise It is the same reason that any railway track alterations or enhancements are very expensive unless done at the same time as a general resignalling.

    As ever the problem is getting the benefits yourself rather than lining the pockets of vsrious middlemen.

    Cheap and Mass are imprecise It is the same reason that any railway track alterations or enhancements are very expensive unless done at the same time as a general resignalling.

    As ever the problem is getting the benefits yourself rather than lining the pockets of vsrious middlemen.
    If they're imprecise then why did you use the terms?

    Cheap mass electricity storage is getting rolled out annually today, its not remotely comparable to fusion.

    And its getting both cheaper, and more xWh of storage that is being rolled out annually, every single year too.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137

    Is it not possible that ethnic resentment was a motivating factor in which case it is highly relevant? The line between terrorism and mental health issues can get very blurred at times.
    Anything is possible. Why don't we wait to find out?
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303

    LOL, I very nearly tagged you in that post but wasn't sure you'd approve of that!
    Just to confuse things, my letter of appointment to my current job is for “Physics Teacher and Rugby Coach”.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,606
    Selebian said:

    Anything is possible. Why don't we wait to find out?
    Some of us find it more fun to have what one might call a Glasgow bin lorry fire.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    edited July 2024
    Cookie said:

    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
    If you have a hot tank then the immersion heaters that kick in when you start to export have always seemed like a great simple idea.

    We have a combi and no tank, at present :disappointed:

    ETA: The other option, of course, becoming financially more attractive all the time, is batteries. But the immersion heater add-ons are very cheap and would make a lot of sense. Even in winter there are times when we are exporting.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,742
    Nunu5 said:
    Yes. It is not only his home State is the most important out of the 50 in finalising the result, it is also that the States to the west of Penn in the central north of the country where Biden did well and a Californian woman of colour may not like Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are all incredibly close, are likely to like Shapiro more than someone from the South West.

    It really is a no brainer.
  • Cookie said:

    You lot had it easy. The Conservatives never actually did anything right wing. You had to content yourselves with complaining about the ineffectual right wing noises they were making.
    They implemented plenty of right wing policies. Most prominently Brexit (I appreciate there are sections of the Left who've always been against the EU, but I don't imagine the form it took was the one Tony Benn might have envisaged). They've also cut working age benefits and disability benefits, slashed local government budgets as a non-protected area (which has tended to impact discretionary services - libraries, sports and so on). They've simultaneously reduced scrutiny of local authorities including through abolition of the Audit Commission, contributing to catastrophic failures in some places. They've cut capital spending on schools.

    You can make a case for some of those policies, and they'd plainly have done much better earlier this month if they'd done those things but not also had Partygate, absurd cakeism that Johnson never had the ability to deliver, the abortive but damaging Truss budget, the farce of Sunak's Rwanda scheme etc.

    But it isn't really an accurate that the Conservatives didn't deliver any right wing red meat for the centre left to complain about (and right to cheer). It wasn't an inconsequential period in office.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632
    Selebian said:

    If you have a hot tank then the immersion heaters that kick in when you start to export have always seemed like a great simple idea.

    We have a combi and no tank, at present :disappointed:
    Yes, me too. I tried to come up with a way to make it work but essentially, too complicated. At least, too complicated to deal with at the same time as having other major building works.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,071
    Sandpit said:

    So businesses are expected to issue invoices purely off the back of the government making a statement, rather than actually passing the legislation? That’s the bit I can’t get my head around.

    Presumably many of the schools have invoices printed and dated 28th July, which they will have posted yesterday afternoon?
    The building industry copes well enough making tenders include wage rises promulgated but not taking effect for 9-10 months.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    Bullshit.

    Racist bullshit no less.

    Why were these two (and their races) not identified before they were convicted?

    image

    We don't identify under-18 suspects. That's the law. If convicted, the Judge can then waive anonymity, but that should not happen before.
    Er, I'm going from multiple reports in the Telegraph and Mail that say he's from a Rwandan family and eye witness reports saying he's black/very dark. And also that video, you can just about see

    It's not me that's been banging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how skin colour matters, for the last ten fucking years, it's the idiot Wokerati, they can't now turn around and say Oh no, skin colour is irrelevant

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687949/Teenager-17-arrested-Southport-stabbings-Rwanda.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline

  • Leon said:

    Er, I'm going from multiple reports in the Telegraph and Mail that say he's from a Rwandan family and eye witness reports saying he's black/very dark. And also that video, you can just about see

    It's not me that's been banging on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how skin colour matters, for the last ten fucking years, it's the idiot Wokerati, they can't now turn around and say Oh no, skin colour is irrelevant

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13687949/Teenager-17-arrested-Southport-stabbings-Rwanda.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline

    More bullshit.

    You've banged on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on about race more than any other poster here.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    More bullshit.

    You've banged on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on about race more than any other poster here.
    Yes, Mrs Roberts, whatever you say. Have an eggnog
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,313
    Leon said:

    "for completeness, although the relevance is questionable, apparently with immigrant parents"

    So he's black? I thought Black Lives Matter? i thought skin colour was of paramount importance? I thought we were all meant to focus on the amounts of pignentation in our epidermis? As it trumps all other human attributes?

    That is, until a heinous and horrific crime is committed by a black person, and then suddenly mentioning their skin colour makes you a racist, and blackness doesn't matter at all?

    Confused of Auvergne
    Nope. Skin colour is always irrelevant, unless it is.

    When it is, should be obvious to most sane people, but for some it does seems more relevant than to others. You know people like Tommy Robinson or Katie Hopkins (whatever happened to her) for instance.
  • Leon said:

    Yes, Mrs Roberts, whatever you say. Have an eggnog
    I'd like to know a single "woke" poster on this site that has brought up race, unprompted, more than you have.

    As you did, again, today.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    ydoethur said:

    Er, the Stone avoiding line diverges *before* Shugborough Tunnel. So it's four lines, not two, that operate there.

    It would still be a pinch point but not quite as bad a one as you think.
    Colwich is where the line to stoke on trent goes of and the WCML goes down to 2 track north of it through Shugborough Tunnel.

    All it carries is two of the Euston to Manchesters per hour (down trains thereof also conflict with up trains from Stafford at Colwich).

    If the "stone avoiding line" had a route back to the West Coast Main Line north of Stafford, you might have a point, but it dosent south of Crewe. Although the Stoke to Crewe Line being electrified in the last few years helps.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098
    edited July 2024

    Cheap mass battery storage is here today, and its getting cheaper every year.
    Yes but, to take our house as an example:

    We generated c.4,200kWh in 2023 off our 4kW array.
    We used 2,700kWh of that and sent the other 1,500kWh to the grid.
    However we also imported 9,500kWh from the grid.

    So our total use was 12,200kWh (we're all electric, no other heating).

    If we tripled the size of our array (easily doable) we would generate all our annual needs but we would need about 10gWh (10,000kWh) of battery storage to store the summer electricity to meet our winter demand.

    That's a lot of batteries - $500k at projected costs of $50k per kWh?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,871
    Leon said:

    Yes, Mrs Roberts, whatever you say. Have an eggnog
    One of the glories of yesterday was not getting your 'hot takes' on the attack. Sad to see that we're getting them now you're back.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137
    Leon said:

    There have been several eye witness reports which have made it through the intense media blackout on speculation. I was wary of them at first - the initial blaze of misinformation - but they all describe the assailant as "very dark"

    Given that it is confirmed his family are Rwandan, it sounds extremely likely that he is black African

    Now, in an ideal world, this should not matter. i would love to live in a world where it did not matter. But for the last 5-10 years the Woke left has been telling us that skin colour - literally, the colour of your skin, especially black skin - matters more than anything else in the world. If that is the case, then it also matters here
    You seem to be struggling here.

    Yes: the available information makes 'black' a reasonable assumption for skin colour.
    I don't see that this is particularly relevant in the absence of other information on motivation.
    As Bart has just posted, for those under 18 details are not released, in general, once an arrest has been made.
    (And, FWIW, I don't think skin colour should matter, perpetrator or victim. The killing of Sarah Everard is as heinous, to me, as the killing of Stephen Lawrence. I'm not really a fan of the 'hate crime' idea.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    kjh said:

    Nope. Skin colour is always irrelevant, unless it is.

    When it is, should be obvious to most sane people, but for some it does seems more relevant than to others. You know people like Tommy Robinson or Katie Hopkins (whatever happened to her) for instance.
    So who gets to decide when it is relevant? And when it isn't?

    Is there an official Government Office for Determining the Relevance of Melanin or Lack Of? We could call it Off-peak

    Thanks. I am here all week. Try the Volvic
  • Cookie said:

    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
    Why bother when I can whip up my famous Brussels sprout consommé and eat it in the bath?
  • DavidL said:

    Yes. It is not only his home State is the most important out of the 50 in finalising the result, it is also that the States to the west of Penn in the central north of the country where Biden did well and a Californian woman of colour may not like Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are all incredibly close, are likely to like Shapiro more than someone from the South West.

    It really is a no brainer.
    What advantages does Shapiro have over Mark Kelly?

    Both seem like good picks.

    And both infinitely better than Vance.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,137

    Just to confuse things, my letter of appointment to my current job is for “Physics Teacher and Rugby Coach”.
    It's all physics though, isn't it, really? I assume you simplify rugby to a spherical ball in a vacuum? :wink:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,769

    What with? I thought the your kids' school fees left you stoney broke?
    Sell the children. Problem solved! :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098

    What advantages does Shapiro have over Mark Kelly?

    Both seem like good picks.

    And both infinitely better than Vance.
    PA has more EC votes than AZ.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    Selebian said:

    You seem to be struggling here.

    Yes: the available information makes 'black' a reasonable assumption for skin colour.
    I don't see that this is particularly relevant in the absence of other information on motivation.
    As Bart has just posted, for those under 18 details are not released, in general, once an arrest has been made.
    (And, FWIW, I don't think skin colour should matter, perpetrator or victim. The killing of Sarah Everard is as heinous, to me, as the killing of Stephen Lawrence. I'm not really a fan of the 'hate crime' idea.)
    Really not struggling. Sitting in the French sun

    As it happens, I agree with you. "Hate crimes" are a bad idea. Prosecute all crimes vigorously and punish with condign severity. The law should be colour blind
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 23,135
    edited July 2024

    Yes but, to take our house as an example:

    We generated c.4,200kWh in 2023 off our 4kW array.
    We used 2,700kWh of that and sent the other 1,500kWh to the grid.
    However we also imported 9,500kWh from the grid.

    So our total use was 12,200kWh (we're all electric, no other heating).

    If we tripled the size of our array (easily doable) we would generate all our annual needs but we would need about 10gWh (10,000kWh) of battery storage to store the summer electricity to meet our winter demand.

    That's a lot of batteries - $500k at projected costs of $50k per kWh?
    Storing from summer to winter is never going to be viable, or realistic.

    Storing from day to night certainly can be.

    Especially adding if you work away from home then night will be both when you use the electricity, run your washing machine/dryer etc, and plug in your car etc

    Currently those who are away from home during the day don't gain much from solar EV, unless they can add a battery in which case it is transformative.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,606
    Selebian said:

    It's all physics though, isn't it, really? I assume you simplify rugby to a spherical ball in a vacuum? :wink:
    Make it a point mass. None of this Coanda balls.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881

    I'd like to know a single "woke" poster on this site that has brought up race, unprompted, more than you have.

    As you did, again, today.
    Going back over this thread I see that Selebian was the first to mention "immigrant parents"

    Niot me. Not least because I've not even been on PB all day, I have been sunbathing on my new terrace, or working

    It is now 35C and i have come indoors and my work is done
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098

    More bullshit.

    You've banged on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on on and on and on and on and on and on about race more than any other poster here.
    He's a fucking racist, as we all know.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,313
    edited July 2024
    Leon said:

    So who gets to decide when it is relevant? And when it isn't?

    Is there an official Government Office for Determining the Relevance of Melanin or Lack Of? We could call it Off-peak

    Thanks. I am here all week. Try the Volvic
    I think I made that quite clear in my reply.

    To those on the far right it is clearly relevant just about all the time.

    To those of a woke tendency it is probably more often relevant than it is to me.

    For me it is pretty well irrelevant unless there is some cultural context.

    It appears to be much more relevant to you.

    I'm afraid that means nobody decides for definite. There is no meter or chart you can refer to. Sorry. You will just have to carry on getting very annoyed about it. I won't, but you can console yourself that I get annoyed about other things as we discussed a few weeks ago.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397
    edited July 2024

    Yes but, to take our house as an example:

    We generated c.4,200kWh in 2023 off our 4kW array.
    We used 2,700kWh of that and sent the other 1,500kWh to the grid.
    However we also imported 9,500kWh from the grid.

    So our total use was 12,200kWh (we're all electric, no other heating).

    If we tripled the size of our array (easily doable) we would generate all our annual needs but we would need about 10gWh (10,000kWh) of battery storage to store the summer electricity to meet our winter demand.

    That's a lot of batteries - $500k at projected costs of $50k per kWh?
    But at the moment you can export your solar to Octopus at 15p per kWh and import overnight at 7.5p per kWh. Now that isn't going to last but it shows that short term batteries (charge overnight use during the day) may make sense...

    Equally looking at fogstar - you can get the 30kWh of batteries you would need for £6000 or so..
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,742
    edited July 2024

    What advantages does Shapiro have over Mark Kelly?

    Both seem like good picks.

    And both infinitely better than Vance.
    Penn has, according to that piece, a 30% chance of being the State that is going to determine the election on the current map. It has 19 electoral votes in this cycle compared to Az's 11. It is an absolute must win for Harris. Arizona would be nice too and Kelly is an interesting guy (as is Buttigieg) but the advantage that Shapiro can give Harris in the key state is invaluable. She cannot afford to put aside any advantage that she might gain there.

    Edit, completely agree about Vance. I can only presume that Trump chose him because he wanted someone younger on the ticket when the opponent was Biden. He looks a very poor choice.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Storing from summer to winter is never going to be viable, or realistic.

    Storing from day to night certainly can be.

    Especially adding if you work away from home then night will be both when you use the electricity, run your washing machine/dryer etc, and plug in your car etc

    Currently those who are away from home during the day don't gain much from solar EV, unless they can add a battery in which case it is transformative.
    Various technologies for making your washing machine start at arbitrary times are pretty mature
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,098

    Storing from summer to winter is never going to be viable, or realistic.

    Storing from day to night certainly can be.

    Especially adding if you work away from home then night will be both when you use the electricity, run your washing machine/dryer etc, and plug in your car etc

    Currently those who are away from home during the day don't gain much from solar EV, unless they can add a battery in which case it is transformative.
    Never say never. There's no physics reason why it is not possible, we just haven't found it yet.

    (In fact it's possible now ofc but not very efficiently. We could use the summer electricity to split water, then generate electricity from the hydrogen in the winter.)
  • What advantages does Shapiro have over Mark Kelly?

    Both seem like good picks.

    And both infinitely better than Vance.
    1. Shapiro is Governor rather than a Senator, providing balance for Harris as a former Senator (Governors have quite specific executive achievements to trumpet).

    2. Regional balance - Harris and Kelly hail from adjoining south western states. Without rustbelt representation they may be vulnerable to Trump's rhetoric on protectionism plus Vance representing Ohio.

    3. Although both are swing states, Pennsylvania carries 19 electoral votes to Arizona's 11. So there are more plausible routes to victory that go through Pennsylvania but not Arizona than vice versa.

    Not to say that's my preference - Kelly has some compelling strengths, there are fewer policy differences between him and Harris, and Shapiro has a record to defend as well as trumpet - but there are some obvious advantages on paper for Shapiro.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 58,881
    edited July 2024
    kjh said:

    I think I made that quite clear in my reply.

    To those on the far right it is clearly relevant just about all the time.

    To those of a woke tendency it is probably more often relevant than it is to me.

    For me it is pretty well irrelevant unless there is some cultural context.

    It appears to be much more relevant to you.

    I'm afraid that means nobody decides for definite. There is no meter or chart you can refer to. Sorry. You will just have to carry on getting very annoyed about it. I won't, but you can console yourself that I get annoyed about other things as we discussed a few weeks ago.
    The whole Southport thing is too depressing to discuss, so I shall desist shortly. I am in a benign mood and don't want to ruin it

    I will make just one further point, 10-15 years ago I honestly felt we were heading for a colour blind world, and it made me happy. That is the ideal

    A decade of Wokeness has, to my mind, done nothing but regress us, it has taken us back to a more racist past, obsessing about skin colour. It is both tragic and ridiculous

    And that is my last word on Southport for the day. I'm now going to have a slice of saucisson

  • eek said:

    Slow lines are on the outside, fast lines are in the middle - it really is as bad as implied.
    Its slightly more complicated than that.

    The slow and fast lines turn into Stafford and stoke lines south of Colwich,

    So from left to right.

    Down Slow, Down Fast, Up Fast Up Slow

    become.

    Down Stafford, Down Stoke Up Stafford Up Stoke.

    With Down Stoke crossing Up Stafford on the flat at Colwich where it splits into two double track lines.

    Basically the West Coast Main line is four track all the way from Euston to Crewe* EXCEPT a couple of miles between Colwich and Stafford through Shugborough Tunnel.

    And where, with HS2 canned will HS2 now end and join the WCML, yes a few miles south of Colwich Junction.
  • DavidL said:

    Penn has, according to that piece, a 30% chance of being the State that is going to determine the election on the current map. It has 19 electoral votes in this cycle compared to Az's 11. It is an absolute must win for Harris. Arizona would be nice too and Kelly is an interesting guy (as is Buttigieg) but the advantage that Shapiro can give Harris in the key state is invaluable. She cannot afford to put aside any advantage that she might gain there.
    Yes but Harris needs to win a swathe of swing states, not just one.

    Neither Arizona alone nor Penn alone will decide the election, a group of states include Penn and some states mainly in the Mid West and Mountain West (like Arizona) will decide the election.

    Hypothetically (I don't know) if Kelly helps more in the Mountain West and Mid West than Shapiro does, then that's an advantage to him.

    It seems like it has to be either of them, but doesn't seem to me like it absolutely has to be one over the other, they're both good picks - which is better than can be said about Vance.
  • Various technologies for making your washing machine start at arbitrary times are pretty mature
    Yes, but not for charging your EV while its away from home. Or running the rest of your power consumption you do while at home.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,397

    Never say never. There's no physics reason why it is not possible, we just haven't found it yet.

    (In fact it's possible now ofc but not very efficiently. We could use the summer electricity to split water, then generate electricity from the hydrogen in the winter.)
    but not very efficiently - from memory splitting water into hydrogen is about the last resort when it comes to uses for excess electricity.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 25,707
    edited July 2024
    Cookie said:

    The reason household solar fails to add up is almost all the cost of installation. We didn't have solar for ages, because we were going to get a new roof. Then we got a new roof, and it became a very easy decision to make.
    Once you have scaffolding up - for whatever reason - the cost of slapping a few panels on suddenly becomes much smaller.

    Also, some people object to solar on aesthetic grounds. Can't see it myself, but there you go. I'm very pleased with mine, which at @MattW 's recommendation are built into my roof and look splendid. :smile:

    One minor problem is what to do with all that electricity you are generating in the summer? You can sell it to the grid but not at any particularly exciting prices. I have dealt with this by making use of an inflatable hot tub, which I heat up during the periods my generation is greater than my consumption. I recommend it.
    Stats

    The latest is that in England and Wales there are just under 1.5 million dwellings (ie habitations) with solar panels. Scotland adds another 130k or just under 10%.

    In terms of % of households, that is around 4-5%.

    To be more useful, there are around 27 million dwellings in EW (so ~29 million with Scotland). Approx 18-20% are flats. And some of the rest will be less suitable for various orientation or environmental or policy reasons.

    So there's a *lot* of potential, I'd say to get up to 5-7x the current installed amount without having to go last low hanging fruit.

    https://www.sunsave.energy/solar-panels-advice/solar-energy/statistics
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/articles/housinginenglandandwales/2021comparedwith2011

    Gunge & Hot tubs.

    I knew a man who was responsible for running the jacuzzi at a YMCA ("Fun to be at the ..."), and after reports of what was in it (eg clogging up the drain), I'm never going near one.

    Solar Export

    On exporting solar energy - there are now a wide range of export tariffs available. I keep it simple and am on a Fixed Tariff from Octopus which pays me 15p per unit. For highest rates you can get ones which pay 25+p per unit, with a high rate in say the 4pm to 7pm window, and a lower rate the rest of the time.

    You can also get export rates related to wholesale prices. I was on one of those for a year to test, but the 15p fixed is better on average and simpler for me. Octopus has a whole family of these tariffs, as do others.

    You can arbitrage it (import to a battery then export at a time of high export prices), and you probably can automate it, but it's not worth the aggro for me.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,420
    Government departments are being asked to fund pay rises out of existing budgets.
  • Southport. Regardless of who did this incident.

    Racial tensions can be temporary, such as when a large number of West Indians came and cultural grating, occured, particularly with youths.

    However there was enough common culture (and goodwill) to enable integration within a generation or two.

    However, when there is no cultural commonality, and a strong religious culture of a different religion which is all encompasing and frowns on marriage to outsiders, you end up with segregation.

    What we are now seeing is a Falls and Bogside in many mainland cities and the working class native population reacting by starting to go all Shankhill/Riverside.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,936
    tlg86 said:

    Government departments are being asked to fund pay rises out of existing budgets.

    It's a start

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 13,054

    And it may well work out that Boris Johnson Eton comes out ahead on the changes, and it small / special needs schools that are the ones most effected.

    If you want an extra £1bn from rich people there are much easier ways to get it.
    The VAT isn't meant to apply to special needs, so special needs schools should be least effected.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,632
    Leon said:

    The whole Southport thing is too depressing to discuss, so I shall desist shortly. I am in a benign mood and don't want to ruin it

    I will make just one further point, 10-15 years ago I honestly felt we were heading for a colour blind world, and it made me happy. That is the ideal

    A decade of Wokeness has, to my mind, done nothing but regress us, it has taken us back to a more racist past, obsessing about skin colour. It is both tragic and ridiculous

    And that is my last word on Southport for the day. I'm now going to have a slice of saucisson

    Can't disagree with that.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,313
    Leon said:

    The whole Southport thing is too depressing to discuss, so I shall desist shortly. I am in a benign mood and don't want to ruin it

    I will make just one further point, 10-15 years ago I honestly felt we were heading for a colour blind world, and it made me happy. That is the ideal

    A decade of Wokeness has, to my mind, done nothing but regress us, it has taken us back to a more racist past, obsessing about skin colour. It is both tragic and ridiculous

    And that is my last word on Southport for the day. I'm now going to have a slice of saucisson

    It is difficult though isn't it. We want to be colour blind, but we don't want everything to be the dull same. Cultural differences are to be enjoyed as you clearly do in your travels. The trouble is cultural differences seem to frighten the dim who come up with all sorts of irrational stuff to hate people different to them. I suspect you can't have one without the other, which is a shame.

    The celebration of those differences however can eventually get over the top and lead to woke, and I have a little sympathy with you on that front, but it doesn't annoy me like it annoys you.
This discussion has been closed.