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The Tory soap opera continues – politicalbetting.com

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  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,425
    Nigelb said:

    Take a look what happened to Indian industrial production in the 19th century.
    How much steel was India making in 1858 vs1947?
  • I'm unsure saying stuff like "UK vanishes below the waves" or calling others "fossil fuel addicts" does your 'argument' any good at all.

    My own view - and I don't think I'm alone in this - is that we need to move to greener forms of energy. But we cannot afford to do that in a way that destroys jobs or the economy as a whole (obviously, some jobs will go, but they should be offset by jobs in the new sectors).

    There are vast opportunities to be made in going green - not just in terms of climate change, but in other ways, for instance local air quality. But the moment we start having brownouts or blackouts, we're a bit screwed. Therefore care is needed.

    IMV others - I'm not saying this is you, but it may be - see Green issues more as a way of introducing socialist policies as much as promoting the environment. And if you look at the history of socialism and the environment, it isn't good. Especially extreme forms such as Communism.
    I see green issues fundamentally as long term economics. It is in the interest of all of us to have a sustainable economy that isn't destroying the environment that supports us. On the whole, I think market-oriented approaches are likely to be the best ones. I'm not in favour of bans on anything, but rather in balancing negative externalities through taxation.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236
    Eabhal said:

    Given the O&G sector's record it's right to be sceptical of their motives. This telegraph article looks like a classic of the genre.

    I don't believe that these kind of vested interests will allow the transition to happen in a way that is optimal for the UK, so you do need to be pushy with them. The same with EVs by 2030, housing developers and so on. They are out for a profit, as is their right.
    Though the point here is that it is largely immaterial to the oil companies. They simply move their investment to other parts of the world where they get a bigger return. The same amount of oil and gas gets produced overall, there is greater rather than less environmental damage done - though the additional damage is on a local rather than global level - and their profits stay the same or actually improve. Oh but because they are making those profits overseas they don't end up paying it to the UK exchequer.
  • Consumption for being burnt yes, but not production. It will need to be produced forever unless we find an alternative to petrochemicals, and there's no harm in that, the harm is in burning it.

    So deal with the consumption and the production will take care of itself.
    But it can't be produced forever, because it's a finite resource. Which makes burning it so bloody stupid when there are, in many cases, alternatives to doing so.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,867

    https://x.com/rachaelmbade/status/1811382505825554818

    @SpeakerPelosi has been advising frontline members to voice their district & do what they need for re-election -- even if it means calling on Biden to step aside. (Her one request: wait until NATO concludes out of respect for the office & Biden)

    For other safe-seat members, she's encouraging them to take their desire for him to step aside straight to the WH or campaign to minimize party infighting.

    For her part, Pelosi has told some people that Biden won't win and should step aside.

    It looks as though Biden and Harris may be approaching crossover on Betfair.
  • TOPPING said:

    a) when will this happen; and
    b) define "fair chunk".

    Or will it be like the Maldives which - shock, horror - haven't sunk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/06/26/climate/maldives-islands-climate-change.html
    a) Over the next few hundred years. It obviously doesn't all happen at once.
    b) Ultimately, potentially everywhere below about 60m above sea level if we were to burn all available fossil fuels.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Years ago I did a first aid course and the only thing that really stuck is the idea that a doctor is required to certify death, even in the extreme case of finding very obviously long dead remains.
    That's true, but for a really suspicious situation like this they'll haul the polis quack out of bed pronto. And not even wait for him if it is really obvious, and someone might be getting away.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Nigelb said:

    Take a look what happened to Indian industrial production in the 19th century.
    And finished jute products, Dundee vs India.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,616

    a) Over the next few hundred years. It obviously doesn't all happen at once.
    b) Ultimately, potentially everywhere below about 60m above sea level if we were to burn all available fossil fuels.
    Absurd logic. You really think that our ability to adapt and substitute won't change for hundreds of years.

    Plus as I have referred to, it is by no means certain that climate change leads to submerged landmass.

    Here's another article.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/briefing/maldives-atolls-climate-change.html
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    If they are bones then any half decent archaeologist or forensics bod will be able to tell you if they are human or animal almost instantly. I am not an expert but even I can identify human bones on a dig site with no trouble.
    That's true, but you normally need to wait till they have had their Ready-Brek and crawled into the lab in the morning. And dry bones don't justify anything earlier.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,389

    NEW THREAD

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,616
    I would bloody love to know what SKS thought of Joe Biden in his meeting with him.

    Don't suppose we will be finding out any time soon but interesting to ponder.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,940

    Though the point here is that it is largely immaterial to the oil companies. They simply move their investment to other parts of the world where they get a bigger return. The same amount of oil and gas gets produced overall, there is greater rather than less environmental damage done - though the additional damage is on a local rather than global level - and their profits stay the same or actually improve. Oh but because they are making those profits overseas they don't end up paying it to the UK exchequer.
    This logic suggests that the UK becomes a 100% exporter of fossil fuels even as we become fully powered by renewables.

    It's a view. I don't think it's politically tenable. There is a reason why we are making this transition and it's not entirely self-interest.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,236
    Eabhal said:

    This logic suggests that the UK becomes a 100% exporter of fossil fuels even as we become fully powered by renewables.

    It's a view. I don't think it's politically tenable. There is a reason why we are making this transition and it's not entirely self-interest.
    Nope that isn't the logic at all. The logic (using your example) is that we become a 100% exporter of petrochemicals and petroleum derivatves whilst becoming fully powered by renewables.

    The logic of the Greens is that we become a 100% importer of fossil fuels whilst killing our own petrochemical industry.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,203

    Though the point here is that it is largely immaterial to the oil companies. They simply move their investment to other parts of the world where they get a bigger return. The same amount of oil and gas gets produced overall, there is greater rather than less environmental damage done - though the additional damage is on a local rather than global level - and their profits stay the same or actually improve. Oh but because they are making those profits overseas they don't end up paying it to the UK exchequer.
    The UK is one of the worst in the oil and gas sector for political risk. Our portfolio of assets for development or abandonment is consequentially at the forefront of review. Most of the African countries I dealt with were deemed far more stable.

    The result of not making further field investment - and consequently earlier abandonment of fields - is that remaining production will be used to offset obligations to dismantle and take away platforms and pipelines, instead of being subject to tax. So less taxable hydrocarbons are produced over the life of the field than would have been.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,921
    edited July 2024

    He left the suitcases sitting there? This is the problem with modern Britain - a lack of training in technical manual tasks.

    The Cali Cartel taught their guys a standardised disposal methods - wrap the body in chicken wire, with rocks inside, use heavy cable ties to prevent the chickenwire unrolling, then into the river.
    According to the latest "History Buffs" https://youtu.be/GyBC5IysttE?si=bPinr3_Oh-YLc6fs&t=975 on the subject, they did do that, but in some cases they also gutted the corpse and stuffed rocks into the abdomen to ensure the corpse did not rise to the surface.

    Although "disposing of a corpse" is the subject of a contingency plan in my head (alongside "zombie survival plan" and "how to survive a nuke"), I can't help but think that under the circs this is not the time to discuss it. :(
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,149
    edited July 2024
    So, can anyone see behind the first statement from Louise Haigh, the Transport Minister:

    New Transport Secretary Louise Haigh promised to deliver the biggest overhaul to transport in a generation.

    The Secretary of State immediately convened officials to begin work at pace across the department on rail reform, further devolution of bus powers, ensuring infrastructure works for the whole country, and supporting local authorities to fix roads for the long term.

    In her first address to Department for Transport (DfT) staff on Monday (8 July 2024), Haigh set out her 5 strategic priorities, putting transport at the heart of mission-driven government.

    They include:

    improving performance on the railways and driving forward rail reform
    improving bus services and growing usage across the country
    transforming infrastructure to work for the whole country, promoting social mobility and tackling regional inequality
    delivering greener transport
    better integrating transport networks

    Getting straight into action, the Transport Secretary’s first official visit later this week will be focused on plans to deliver better buses in every corner of the country, beginning a round of engagement with Mayors and devolved leaders who will be key delivery partners.


    And we have:

    The newly-appointed Rail Minister, Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill CBE will also bring decades of experience to help realise the Government’s ambition of transforming infrastructure and improving public transport to deliver for passengers.

    In addition, the Prime Minister has announced the appointment of new ministers at the Department, including Future of Roads Minister Lilian Greenwood MP, Local Transport Minister Simon Lightwood MP, and Aviation, Maritime, and Security Minister Mike Kane MP.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transport-secretary-sets-out-5-key-priorities-to-deliver-the-biggest-overhaul-to-transport-in-a-generation

    Thoughts?
  • MattW said:

    So, can anyone see behind the first statement from Louise Haigh, the Transport Minister:

    New Transport Secretary Louise Haigh promised to deliver the biggest overhaul to transport in a generation.

    The Secretary of State immediately convened officials to begin work at pace across the department on rail reform, further devolution of bus powers, ensuring infrastructure works for the whole country, and supporting local authorities to fix roads for the long term.

    In her first address to Department for Transport (DfT) staff on Monday (8 July 2024), Haigh set out her 5 strategic priorities, putting transport at the heart of mission-driven government.

    They include:

    improving performance on the railways and driving forward rail reform
    improving bus services and growing usage across the country
    transforming infrastructure to work for the whole country, promoting social mobility and tackling regional inequality
    delivering greener transport
    better integrating transport networks

    Getting straight into action, the Transport Secretary’s first official visit later this week will be focused on plans to deliver better buses in every corner of the country, beginning a round of engagement with Mayors and devolved leaders who will be key delivery partners.


    And we have:

    The newly-appointed Rail Minister, Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill CBE will also bring decades of experience to help realise the Government’s ambition of transforming infrastructure and improving public transport to deliver for passengers.

    In addition, the Prime Minister has announced the appointment of new ministers at the Department, including Future of Roads Minister Lilian Greenwood MP, Local Transport Minister Simon Lightwood MP, and Aviation, Maritime, and Security Minister Mike Kane MP.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transport-secretary-sets-out-5-key-priorities-to-deliver-the-biggest-overhaul-to-transport-in-a-generation

    Thoughts?

    Unsurprising but disappointing lack of investment in new roads and bridges as a priority, both of which can be used by buses and cyclists as well as vehicles.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,992

    A house price collapse doesn't bankrupt anyone, it just makes costs more affordable. If you've been paying off your mortgage (or paid it off) you owe less or nothing on your home already, it's those who need to buy one we should be caring about not those who already have one.

    Costs going up is a bad thing, costs going down is a good thing. Or do you want gas prices and other costs to only ever go up?
    DOH, usual economics for idiots from you Bart. There ar emmany many who bought in recent years not paid anything off yet , intreest only mortgages and other such stuff, it would beggar them you fool.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Yes it's daft - and I fear going to be legally expensive for the Gov't... , at least he lifted the onshore wind ban immediately on taking office.

    The oil and gas ban was one of the big reasons I didn't vote for Labour tbh.
    Farage sits, eating popcorn.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 2024
    Deleted
This discussion has been closed.