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For the first time in a few days I think Reform are a sell on the spreads – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    So just to clarify, you think there’s a big groundswell among the “working men’s clubs” that you presumably frequent and which represent the majority of British public opinion, for an accommodating approach towards Putin. Whose defensive war against the marauding Ukrainians is understandable because of the gross provocation by the EU.

    Right? That’s the real voice of the people?

    Maybe I don’t understand my country after all.
    I think there *might* be a little more Ukraine fatigue than is publicly visible, given that any wavering on financial support for Ukraine tends to get you called scum in fairly short order. Yet you can't get a doctors appointment for shit, and taxes are at an all time high. Making the expression of some opinions socially unacceptable does tend to make the spread of those opinions hard to monitor. That does not equate to support for Putin, who I think there's widespread revulsion toward.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    The EU can expand wherever it likes. It's a club where membership is voluntary. In fact, you have to work fucking hard to join. If a country wants in, and the EU will take them, 🤝, it's a deal. Do your neighbours not like it? Tough shit. The thing about sovereignty is that you can listen to your neighbours' advice if you want but in the end you do what you like.

    Normal people get this. A lot of people who voted for Brexit got this. It's kinda weird that Nigel Fartrage doesn't get it. He can fuck off to Moscow.
    Quite. In one answer Farage has blown the entire basis of his decades of argument. He has always argued that it is about freedom and choice, but it turns out it was not. It was about the protection of an out of date established world order of which Farage sees himself as a part. The suggestion that the countries of eastern Europe should not have been allowed to freely decide their own future but should have been tied for ever and a day to Putin and Russia is pathetic, although to be fair I am not surprised to see it coming from Farage.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    Ah, a clarification. An explanation. Ahem.

    Because when you're expaining, your're doing really well.

    Farage may well pull this off, but he knows he's screwed up here.
    Imagine how it would go if he got a serious grilling on his economic policy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    STARMER

    What now?
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 578
    edited June 21
    https://x.com/JamesDAustin/status/1803414813566964088

    So we know constituency polls are unreliable. But is there anything in the fact that they seem to all be suggesting, consistently, Labour outperforming and the Tories underperforming the overall MRP picture nationally?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,271

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    If Farage came into my pub I think all the voters would leave him behind, actually.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Courtesy of Farage’s mate.

    Vovchansk now.

    The plague of Russian fascism has come.

    https://x.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1804140335687160144

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    He absolutely is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    So just to clarify, you think there’s a big groundswell among the “working men’s clubs” that you presumably frequent and which represent the majority of British public opinion, for an accommodating approach towards Putin. Whose defensive war against the marauding Ukrainians is understandable because of the gross provocation by the EU.

    Right? That’s the real voice of the people?

    Maybe I don’t understand my country after all.
    I think there *might* be a little more Ukraine fatigue than is publicly visible, given that any wavering on financial support for Ukraine tends to get you called scum in fairly short order. Yet you can't get a doctors appointment for shit, and taxes are at an all time high. Making the expression of some opinions socially unacceptable does tend to make the spread of those opinions hard to monitor. That does not equate to support for Putin, who I think there's widespread revulsion toward.
    “I admire him as a politician.”
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    Farage backing Putin.

    Funny old world.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    How many times do we need to go through this?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,953

    Hmm. Sounds familiar...



    The Kyiv Independent
    @KyivIndependent

    ⚡️Former U.S. President Donald Trump said on June 20 that the possibility of Ukraine's entry into NATO was "really why this (full-scale) war started" and blamed President Joe Biden's alleged support for Ukraine's accession as a trigger to the invasion.

    A good attack line against NF would be “I see your lips move but I hear Donald Trump”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    .
    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    Good luck convincing LuckyGuy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Farage backing Putin.

    Funny old world.

    It's only fair: Putin's backing Farage, after all.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    So just to clarify, you think there’s a big groundswell among the “working men’s clubs” that you presumably frequent and which represent the majority of British public opinion, for an accommodating approach towards Putin. Whose defensive war against the marauding Ukrainians is understandable because of the gross provocation by the EU.

    Right? That’s the real voice of the people?

    Maybe I don’t understand my country after all.
    I think there *might* be a little more Ukraine fatigue than is publicly visible, given that any wavering on financial support for Ukraine tends to get you called scum in fairly short order. Yet you can't get a doctors appointment for shit, and taxes are at an all time high. Making the expression of some opinions socially unacceptable does tend to make the spread of those opinions hard to monitor. That does not equate to support for Putin, who I think there's widespread revulsion toward.
    “I admire him as a politician.”
    NF had to own that as another poster said. He's done a good job this campaign of blasting through obstacles rather than going into retreat over them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited June 21
    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    Nigelb said:

    .

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    Good luck convincing LuckyGuy.
    Spot on I see:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    He absolutely is.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    If you think it’s not legitimate to seek to influence the decisions of other countries then should foreign policy in general be seen as an anachronism and we should close the foreign office?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Farage backing Putin.

    Funny old world.

    Farage must have war-gamed making these comments, and believed they would benefit his cause.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    edited June 21
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    lol, is that how you really think Farage spends his spare time. Hanging around in working men's clubs? Good grief.
    A journo posted the other day that he accidentally bumped into our 'man of the people' staggering out of one of the most expensive restaurants in London.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    edited June 21

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,327
    Andy_JS said:

    Just visited a pub for 10 mins, which consisted of a lot of fat men saying how awful all politicians are. Not very inspiring.

    Bit like on here then?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757

    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    So just to clarify, you think there’s a big groundswell among the “working men’s clubs” that you presumably frequent and which represent the majority of British public opinion, for an accommodating approach towards Putin. Whose defensive war against the marauding Ukrainians is understandable because of the gross provocation by the EU.

    Right? That’s the real voice of the people?

    Maybe I don’t understand my country after all.
    I think there *might* be a little more Ukraine fatigue than is publicly visible, given that any wavering on financial support for Ukraine tends to get you called scum in fairly short order. Yet you can't get a doctors appointment for shit, and taxes are at an all time high. Making the expression of some opinions socially unacceptable does tend to make the spread of those opinions hard to monitor. That does not equate to support for Putin, who I think there's widespread revulsion toward.
    “I admire him as a politician.”
    NF had to own that as another poster said. He's done a good job this campaign of blasting through obstacles rather than going into retreat over them.
    He’s done a great job condemning himself out of his own mouth.
    No doubt there’s a hard core which will continue to be impressed by his bullshit.
  • Have we had this poll stated here yet.

    Whitestone Insight for Daily Mirror:

    🔴Labour - 39% (-2)
    🟣Reform - 20% (+2)
    🔵Tories - 19 (-)
    🟡Lib Dem - 12% (+1)
    🟢Green - 6% (-)


    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/1804182490711531878?t=aRO81pbeLAXQNFO3uVZ23A&s=19
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544
    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    Indeed, I remember some people getting awfully cross when our American friends said that the Brexit decision was absolutely up to us but maybe wasn't a good idea.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    edited June 21

    https://x.com/JamesDAustin/status/1803414813566964088

    So we know constituency polls are unreliable. But is there anything in the fact that they seem to all be suggesting, consistently, Labour outperforming and the Tories underperforming the overall MRP picture nationally?

    Depends which MRP you look at, most have the Tories failing to win the 3 cited. On UNS the MRPs are underestimating the Tory seat total.

    Hartlepool and Clacton should also have amongst the highest Reform voteshares in the UK, even Gillingham was also strong Leave and likely strong above average Reform share
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    Farooq said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    The EU can expand wherever it likes. It's a club where membership is voluntary. In fact, you have to work fucking hard to join. If a country wants in, and the EU will take them, 🤝, it's a deal. Do your neighbours not like it? Tough shit. The thing about sovereignty is that you can listen to your neighbours' advice if you want but in the end you do what you like.

    Normal people get this. A lot of people who voted for Brexit got this. It's kinda weird that Nigel Fartrage doesn't get it. He can fuck off to Moscow.
    Why does Farage think that Putin is worried about EU expansion?

    What could it be about the european union that Putin doesn't like?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    What does PB make of the missing lad in Tenerife? Sky going with the "aren't all the conspiracy theories awful" angle, but, curiously, Sky aren't being open about his background.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    Tres said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    lol, is that how you really think Farage spends his spare time. Hanging around in working men's clubs? Good grief.
    A journo posted the other day that he accidentally bumped into our 'man of the people' staggering out of one of the most expensive restaurants in London.
    That’s the joys of our class system though isn’t it. The Uber posh like Farage get to cosplay working class. It’s the petit Trianon.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    tlg86 said:

    What does PB make of the missing lad in Tenerife? Sky going with the "aren't all the conspiracy theories awful" angle, but, curiously, Sky aren't being open about his background.

    Background?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
    He has flat out admitted it on more than one occasion. But hey ho.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Newsnight reduced to 30 mins just as an election campaign starts. You'd have thought they might have extended it for an extra 4 weeks to cater for election news.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Have we had this poll stated here yet.

    Whitestone Insight for Daily Mirror:

    🔴Labour - 39% (-2)
    🟣Reform - 20% (+2)
    🔵Tories - 19 (-)
    🟡Lib Dem - 12% (+1)
    🟢Green - 6% (-)


    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/1804182490711531878?t=aRO81pbeLAXQNFO3uVZ23A&s=19

    I think we did, but useful to see it again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676

    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    Indeed, I remember some people getting awfully cross when our American friends said that the Brexit decision was absolutely up to us but maybe wasn't a good idea.
    I remember some of our Remain supporters rather pompously opining that we live in a world of large blocs, and that a small independent country on the periphery of a large bloc would always be subservient, that the whole concept of national sovereignty was an outdated illusory notion. 'Government by fax' I think was the phrase. But apparently that doesn't apply to Ukraine and their big neighbour.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,759

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    Absolute lol. You mean man of the people Nige isn’t a complete fucking act, after all!

    He’s the biggest fake in my political lifetime. By some margin.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
    He has flat out admitted it on more than one occasion. But hey ho.
    Should be easy enough for one of our moderators to confirm or not. Indeed I think one already has.

    They share certain attention seeking tendencies but very different written styles, which even for a writer are pretty difficult to fake.

    Incidentally one of the joys of this site is recognising a writing style before seeing the poster. It takes about 5 words to know it’s a BigG post or a HYUFD post for example.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    carnforth said:

    tlg86 said:

    What does PB make of the missing lad in Tenerife? Sky going with the "aren't all the conspiracy theories awful" angle, but, curiously, Sky aren't being open about his background.

    Background?
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/eight-thugs-who-split-boys-33066928
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,448
    edited June 21

    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    Indeed, I remember some people getting awfully cross when our American friends said that the Brexit decision was absolutely up to us but maybe wasn't a good idea.
    I remember some of our Remain supporters rather pompously opining that we live in a world of large blocs, and that a small independent country on the periphery of a large bloc would always be subservient, that the whole concept of national sovereignty was an outdated illusory notion. 'Government by fax' I think was the phrase. But apparently that doesn't apply to Ukraine and their big neighbour.
    Indeed it doesn't, for four bloody good reasons.

    1: Its a stupid conceit.
    2: Ukraine's biggest geopolitical neighbour is the EU, not Russia.
    3: Ukraine's biggest military neighbour is NATO, not Russia.
    4: Russia is a tinpot failing dictatorship, not a large bloc.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458
    edited June 21
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage backing Putin.

    Funny old world.

    Farage must have war-gamed making these comments, and believed they would benefit his cause.
    He just shoots from the hip. He doesn’t have dozens of strategists testing every possible angle a la the Labour Party.

    (I mean, that’s what I quite like about him, even though I think him a…)
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,759
    Andy_JS said:

    Just visited a pub for 10 mins, which consisted of a lot of fat men saying how awful all politicians are. Not very inspiring.

    I visited a pub tonight too, for rather longer than 10 mins. I don’t think any of us mentioned the election in any way. Holidays in Cornwall was the main topic.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
    He has flat out admitted it on more than one occasion. But hey ho.
    Should be easy enough for one of our moderators to confirm or not. Indeed I think one already has.

    They share certain attention seeking tendencies but very different written styles, which even for a writer are pretty difficult to fake.

    Incidentally one of the joys of this site is recognising a writing style before seeing the poster. It takes about 5 words to know it’s a BigG post or a HYUFD post for example.
    She uses full stops. That's about the only difference in style (as opposed to content). There's the same meter, the same little flourishes at the end of posts.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    edited June 21
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
    He has flat out admitted it on more than one occasion. But hey ho.
    Should be easy enough for one of our moderators to confirm or not. Indeed I think one already has.

    They share certain attention seeking tendencies but very different written styles, which even for a writer are pretty difficult to fake.

    Incidentally one of the joys of this site is recognising a writing style before seeing the poster. It takes about 5 words to know it’s a BigG post or a HYUFD post for example.
    Robert has flat out said so.
    But there’s very little point trying to actually convince Luckyguy of anything, once he’s made his mind up.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    Absolute lol. You mean man of the people Nige isn’t a complete fucking act, after all!

    He’s the biggest fake in my political lifetime. By some margin.

    I didn't say anything wasn't an act. I suggested a small possibility that he may know that what he's said in the Nick Robinson interview won't go down as awfully with his target voters as we think. Could be wrong.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    tlg86 said:

    carnforth said:

    tlg86 said:

    What does PB make of the missing lad in Tenerife? Sky going with the "aren't all the conspiracy theories awful" angle, but, curiously, Sky aren't being open about his background.

    Background?
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/eight-thugs-who-split-boys-33066928
    Thanks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    Have we had this poll stated here yet.

    Whitestone Insight for Daily Mirror:

    🔴Labour - 39% (-2)
    🟣Reform - 20% (+2)
    🔵Tories - 19 (-)
    🟡Lib Dem - 12% (+1)
    🟢Green - 6% (-)


    https://x.com/ashcowburn/status/1804182490711531878?t=aRO81pbeLAXQNFO3uVZ23A&s=19

    We did but it was taken yesterday and Wednesday, another even more recent poll was taken yesterday and today and has Labour 43%, Tories 22%, Reform 13%, LDs 8%, Greens 7%
    https://x.com/wethinkpolling/status/1804152514545099071
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    Andy_JS said:

    Just visited a pub for 10 mins, which consisted of a lot of fat men saying how awful all politicians are. Not very inspiring.

    If you had visited a pub during an election campaign 100 years ago you would probably have heard fat men at the bar saying much the same
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,458

    Andy_JS said:

    Just visited a pub for 10 mins, which consisted of a lot of fat men saying how awful all politicians are. Not very inspiring.

    I visited a pub tonight too, for rather longer than 10 mins. I don’t think any of us mentioned the election in any way. Holidays in Cornwall was the main topic.
    I have been at the pub also. For several hours. A tiny bit of politics, a lot of sport.


    SOUTHGATE
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Andy_JS said:

    So anyway we have our postal votes and duty has been done. I thought about it and discussed it with my family and in the end I decided to vote Conservative.

    No - not really. For the first time since 1997 we have three generations all voting Lab

    What type of seat - marginal?
    Well - it depends. Liz Truss currently has a 26,000 majority so that probably makes South West Norfolk now a marginal!
    I was in Swaffham a few weeks ago. Nice town.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    'Finally, if the party leaders were cars, what kind of car would they be? “Nigel Farage would be a classic Triumph Dolomite with brown leather seats. Cigar-smelling. No seatbelts. Five and drive from the pub”; “A Hillman Imp. The green one with wooden sides down it”; “The one out of Only Fools and Horses, a plastic Robin Reliant”; “A rusty old Jag;” “A Land Rover. Rough and ready. It can drive over anything or anyone to get where he wants”; “A tank, leaving a trail of destruction behind it”; “A transit van, loaded full of crap”; and:

    “A Porschey-type car, flashy but a horrible drive. Looks good but if you’re going from one end of the M6 to the other, you’d rather be in an Audi. All talk and no trousers.”

    How about Rishi Sunak? “A Mini Cooper. Small and mighty”; “An Alfa Romeo. Hardly anyone’s got one and they’re not reliable. But they think they’re posher than the rest of the cars”; “A Fiat Panda. Little and square”; “A BMW. Prestigious body but no guts”; and:

    “A Rolls-Royce with tinted windows. Looks good but you’re not looking out, just sneering above everyone. With bulletproof windows and his little Sky TV in the dash to make up for lost time.”

    What about Keir Starmer? “Well it couldn’t be an open-topped car because it would ruin his hair”; “Something you’d get from a used car salesman with no guarantee”; “Something boring like a Nissan Micra or a Fiesta. Something you get when you first pass”; “An electric Toyota. The opposite of whatever Rishi’s doing”; and:

    “Oh he’s got two. A Ford because he’s a man of the people, but he’s also got a Bugatti somewhere that’s registered to his wife.”

    And Ed Davey? “Just a bog-standard car that you’d just drive past and not know someone important was in it”; “He’d actually be in a boat. But he’d fall out.”
    https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/21/lord-ashcroft-what-matters-is-that-theyll-try-my-focus-groups-in-doncaster-morecambe-and-tatton/
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196
    Nigelb said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Anyone heard from @Leon this evening?

    No, thought not.

    Leon posts as Heathener (come on guys, he admits the fact frequently) and I believe has a new one called Double Dutch. He can rarely resist drawing attention to his own comic creations and I noticed him doing that today. Heathener is a satire on a censorious leftie woman and Double Dutch is a green loon. I don't know where he finds the energy.
    Errr.

    Leon is not Heathener.
    No, he can never stay in character long enough.
    He doesn't. The mask slips frequently. She was getting excited over a high poll for Reform the other evening.
    I’m not sure Leon is that sophisticated at VPNs. I would assume the mods know if someone has multiple IDs on here.
    He has flat out admitted it on more than one occasion. But hey ho.
    Should be easy enough for one of our moderators to confirm or not. Indeed I think one already has.

    They share certain attention seeking tendencies but very different written styles, which even for a writer are pretty difficult to fake.

    Incidentally one of the joys of this site is recognising a writing style before seeing the poster. It takes about 5 words to know it’s a BigG post or a HYUFD post for example.
    Robert has flat out said so.
    But there’s very little point trying to actually convince Luckyguy of anything, once he’s made his mind up.
    Wikipedia bans sockpuppets, the same person having more than one persona. Perhaps PB should too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,544

    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    Indeed, I remember some people getting awfully cross when our American friends said that the Brexit decision was absolutely up to us but maybe wasn't a good idea.
    I remember some of our Remain supporters rather pompously opining that we live in a world of large blocs, and that a small independent country on the periphery of a large bloc would always be subservient, that the whole concept of national sovereignty was an outdated illusory notion. 'Government by fax' I think was the phrase. But apparently that doesn't apply to Ukraine and their big neighbour.
    Indeed it doesn't, for four bloody good reasons.

    1: Its a stupid conceit.
    2: Ukraine's biggest geopolitical neighbour is the EU, not Russia.
    3: Ukraine's biggest military neighbour is NATO, not Russia.
    4: Russia is a tinpot failing dictatorship, not a large bloc.
    One other thing, which I suspect is the important one.

    If the people of Ukraine really took a free decision to align themselves with Russia, ultimately, that's up to them. I'd want to dispatch as many psychatrists to Kyiv and points east as I could muster, but... ultimately... that would be up to them. That's not what is happening. So if Russia wants to be surrounded by friendly states, it needs to act in a friendlier way.

    Oh, and while I'm here. Anyone who tries to say that 'government by fax' is like the way that Moscow treats its satellites. Anyone who chortles about the EUSSR. Get in the sea. And once you're done with that, find a deeper sea, get into that and repeat.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    carnforth said:

    tlg86 said:

    carnforth said:

    tlg86 said:

    What does PB make of the missing lad in Tenerife? Sky going with the "aren't all the conspiracy theories awful" angle, but, curiously, Sky aren't being open about his background.

    Background?
    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/eight-thugs-who-split-boys-33066928
    Thanks.
    So twitter reckons the theory is that it's another one of these:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_boy_hoax

    A sort of Michael Mosley copycat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Matt Goodwin's twitter feed has gone very quiet over the last few hours.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 504
    Anyone got any thoughts about Witney? DC's old stomping ground although boundary changes have made exact comps a bit harder.

    On the ground observation: LD candidate (Charlie Maynard) is very energetic, lots of leaflets and very visible. Conservative (Robert Courts) largely anonymous. LD throwing the kitchen sink at it, it seems. But I can't see Con losing given the LD/Labour vote split and the obvious immunity to Farage out in the Oxfordshire countryside.

    Con are 9/4 on Oddschecker and 2/1 on William Hill.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Anyone got any thoughts about Witney? DC's old stomping ground although boundary changes have made exact comps a bit harder.

    On the ground observation: LD candidate (Charlie Maynard) is very energetic, lots of leaflets and very visible. Conservative (Robert Courts) largely anonymous. LD throwing the kitchen sink at it, it seems. But I can't see Con losing given the LD/Labour vote split and the obvious immunity to Farage out in the Oxfordshire countryside.

    Con are 9/4 on Oddschecker and 2/1 on William Hill.

    If the opposition to the Tories wasn't split they could easily lose it, but not sure how that would happen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Interesting (if imprecise) analogy.

    “This is 1938, but Czechoslovakia has decided to fight.”
    https://x.com/United24media/status/1804058295595856313
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,112
    Interesting that Starmer’s cars are not posh in the Ashcroft focus group. Surprising. Maybe the son of a toolmaker thing is working.

    I’d have SKS down as a VW Passat or Audi A4 (or whatever the current versions are).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting (if imprecise) analogy.

    “This is 1938, but Czechoslovakia has decided to fight.”
    https://x.com/United24media/status/1804058295595856313

    Not that imprecise.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ceqq74pg1evo

    “A chief constable who lied and exaggerated his naval rank, length of service and achievements has been dismissed for gross misconduct.

    “Nick Adderley, of Northamptonshire Police, claimed he had reached the rank of lieutenant in the military and that he was a military negotiator in Haiti in the 1980s.”

    I remember this was discussed on PB a while back.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    TimS said:

    Interesting that Starmer’s cars are not posh in the Ashcroft focus group. Surprising. Maybe the son of a toolmaker thing is working.

    I’d have SKS down as a VW Passat or Audi A4 (or whatever the current versions are).

    Isn't the new Primeministerial car going to be an Audi A8 because Jaguar cancelled the XJ? The only remaining british-built large saloons are from Bentley and RR and presumanly they're deemed too posh. Why not an SUV?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    TimS said:

    Interesting that Starmer’s cars are not posh in the Ashcroft focus group. Surprising. Maybe the son of a toolmaker thing is working.

    I’d have SKS down as a VW Passat or Audi A4 (or whatever the current versions are).

    Good call.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    carnforth said:

    TimS said:

    Interesting that Starmer’s cars are not posh in the Ashcroft focus group. Surprising. Maybe the son of a toolmaker thing is working.

    I’d have SKS down as a VW Passat or Audi A4 (or whatever the current versions are).

    Isn't the new Primeministerial car going to be an Audi A8 because Jaguar cancelled the XJ? The only remaining british-built large saloons are from Bentley and RR and presumanly they're deemed too posh. Why not an SUV?
    Because the Governing class hates the UK.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    edited June 21
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Finally, if the party leaders were cars, what kind of car would they be? “Nigel Farage would be a classic Triumph Dolomite with brown leather seats. Cigar-smelling. No seatbelts. Five and drive from the pub”; “A Hillman Imp. The green one with wooden sides down it”; “The one out of Only Fools and Horses, a plastic Robin Reliant”; “A rusty old Jag;” “A Land Rover. Rough and ready. It can drive over anything or anyone to get where he wants”; “A tank, leaving a trail of destruction behind it”; “A transit van, loaded full of crap”; and:

    “A Porschey-type car, flashy but a horrible drive. Looks good but if you’re going from one end of the M6 to the other, you’d rather be in an Audi. All talk and no trousers.”

    How about Rishi Sunak? “A Mini Cooper. Small and mighty”; “An Alfa Romeo. Hardly anyone’s got one and they’re not reliable. But they think they’re posher than the rest of the cars”; “A Fiat Panda. Little and square”; “A BMW. Prestigious body but no guts”; and:

    “A Rolls-Royce with tinted windows. Looks good but you’re not looking out, just sneering above everyone. With bulletproof windows and his little Sky TV in the dash to make up for lost time.”

    What about Keir Starmer? “Well it couldn’t be an open-topped car because it would ruin his hair”; “Something you’d get from a used car salesman with no guarantee”; “Something boring like a Nissan Micra or a Fiesta. Something you get when you first pass”; “An electric Toyota. The opposite of whatever Rishi’s doing”; and:

    “Oh he’s got two. A Ford because he’s a man of the people, but he’s also got a Bugatti somewhere that’s registered to his wife.”

    And Ed Davey? “Just a bog-standard car that you’d just drive past and not know someone important was in it”; “He’d actually be in a boat. But he’d fall out.”
    https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/21/lord-ashcroft-what-matters-is-that-theyll-try-my-focus-groups-in-doncaster-morecambe-and-tatton/

    Starmer: Honda Jazz
    Sunak: Tesla
    Davey: Fiat Multipla
    Swinney: Volvo 960 Estate
    Farage: some fucking clown car
    Spot on, though don't know Swinney. Apparently some of those lovely old Volvo estates are rather dangerous now because they can't cope with a slip road - 0-60 times of more than 20s...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,272
    edited June 21
    Which car would our leading politicians be?
    Dunno.
    But I'd trust a Citroen Saxo to do a better fucking job than this lot.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358

    Andy_JS said:

    Farage backing Putin.

    Funny old world.

    Farage must have war-gamed making these comments, and believed they would benefit his cause.
    He just shoots from the hip. He doesn’t have dozens of strategists testing every possible angle a la the Labour Party.

    (I mean, that’s what I quite like about him, even though I think him a…)
    Well it'll be interesting to see what happens to Reform's poll ratings after this.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6

    Rowling is one of those younger lefties who eventually end up as fascists in old age. She's nearly there. Not quite, but give it four years.
    She got involved over Scottish independence and Trans issues, and was a former big Labour donor. But no peep out of her over Brexit. Closet supporter or better part of valour?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,089
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6

    Rowling is one of those younger lefties who eventually end up as fascists in old age. She's nearly there. Not quite, but give it four years.
    It is sad that you label anyone you disagree with as a fascist. Rowling has a perfect valid position with regard to women's rights - one that only a few years ago would have been considered solidly left wing. The fact that Labour are losing the support of people like her says everything you need to know about how extreme they have become on some of the more fanatical social issues. You like to think of gthem as a centre left party but when it comes to these sorts of debates they are far out on the extremes
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,279
    Farooq said:

    carnforth said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    'Finally, if the party leaders were cars, what kind of car would they be? “Nigel Farage would be a classic Triumph Dolomite with brown leather seats. Cigar-smelling. No seatbelts. Five and drive from the pub”; “A Hillman Imp. The green one with wooden sides down it”; “The one out of Only Fools and Horses, a plastic Robin Reliant”; “A rusty old Jag;” “A Land Rover. Rough and ready. It can drive over anything or anyone to get where he wants”; “A tank, leaving a trail of destruction behind it”; “A transit van, loaded full of crap”; and:

    “A Porschey-type car, flashy but a horrible drive. Looks good but if you’re going from one end of the M6 to the other, you’d rather be in an Audi. All talk and no trousers.”

    How about Rishi Sunak? “A Mini Cooper. Small and mighty”; “An Alfa Romeo. Hardly anyone’s got one and they’re not reliable. But they think they’re posher than the rest of the cars”; “A Fiat Panda. Little and square”; “A BMW. Prestigious body but no guts”; and:

    “A Rolls-Royce with tinted windows. Looks good but you’re not looking out, just sneering above everyone. With bulletproof windows and his little Sky TV in the dash to make up for lost time.”

    What about Keir Starmer? “Well it couldn’t be an open-topped car because it would ruin his hair”; “Something you’d get from a used car salesman with no guarantee”; “Something boring like a Nissan Micra or a Fiesta. Something you get when you first pass”; “An electric Toyota. The opposite of whatever Rishi’s doing”; and:

    “Oh he’s got two. A Ford because he’s a man of the people, but he’s also got a Bugatti somewhere that’s registered to his wife.”

    And Ed Davey? “Just a bog-standard car that you’d just drive past and not know someone important was in it”; “He’d actually be in a boat. But he’d fall out.”
    https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/21/lord-ashcroft-what-matters-is-that-theyll-try-my-focus-groups-in-doncaster-morecambe-and-tatton/

    Starmer: Honda Jazz
    Sunak: Tesla
    Davey: Fiat Multipla
    Swinney: Volvo 960 Estate
    Farage: some fucking clown car
    Spot on, though don't know Swinney. Apparently some of those lovely old Volvo estates are rather dangerous now because they can't cope with a slip road - 0-60 times of more than 20s...
    I deliberately chose an older, less swish looking Volvo. Boxy, safe, apologetic and dated.
    I'll take a V70R please. Five years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003

    Anyone got any thoughts about Witney? DC's old stomping ground although boundary changes have made exact comps a bit harder.

    On the ground observation: LD candidate (Charlie Maynard) is very energetic, lots of leaflets and very visible. Conservative (Robert Courts) largely anonymous. LD throwing the kitchen sink at it, it seems. But I can't see Con losing given the LD/Labour vote split and the obvious immunity to Farage out in the Oxfordshire countryside.

    Con are 9/4 on Oddschecker and 2/1 on William Hill.

    I would say Didcot and Wantage, Henley, even Banbury and Bicester and Woodstock are more likely to be lost by the Tories in Oxfordshire than Witney
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,539
    Clearly a lot of people want Farage's comments to be a turning point but I can't see them doing more than minor damage. In fact if everyone goes over the top it'll just play into his infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Can Nigel Farage fans please explain this?

    He's right
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,634

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    Absolute lol. You mean man of the people Nige isn’t a complete fucking act, after all!

    He’s the biggest fake in my political lifetime. By some margin.

    I didn't say anything wasn't an act. I suggested a small possibility that he may know that what he's said in the Nick Robinson interview won't go down as awfully with his target voters as we think. Could be wrong.
    The question is which target voters (and what's Farage's game)? There's little doubt that there's a not insignificant tranche of people who are "stop the world I want to get off" voters who dislike modern Britain/the world so much they go down the rabbithole of "Putin's not such a bad bloke", WEF conspiracy theories, and far right stuff. You will hear it in pubs from time to time, you're right.

    They also exist on the left too as well - which is why even at its low ebbs the SWP or the assorted alphabet soup of intermingling organisations can stage some pretty large protests when there's a cause to provide the excuse to hit the streets.

    But it's not that large amid the wider sea of the electorate (though maybe grew a bit in the pandemic, or certainly got louder) - and importantly everyone else really can't stand that nonsense. For every two or three blokes boring on about "the government and MSM don't want us to say it, you'll get arrested", there are 15 others who want them to shut up and go away. They're also a pretty unreliable voting bloc - even if you're an outsider tailoring your appeal to them.

    Which brings us to the question, what's his game? If we accept Reform are polling at 15-20%, and Farage's aim is to replace the Tories - either now or deal them such a fatal blow they have to beg him to rule over the ashes - then the next step is to keep/move on to persuading those who aren't among those people, that Reform are a good bet. It's the more traditionally conservative, patriotic voters rather than the blokes who think all politicians are "in on it" (whatever it is), who are disillusioned that he needs to be reassuring or persuading by hammering the Reform policies they like - namely hardline immigration ones.

    I doubt "Putin's not so bad and it's partly Britain's fault" plays particularly well with that group. For whom security and standing up to our enemies - and Putin is very much perceived as that, remember Salisbury and its effect on Corbyn - has some importance. Who should be who Reform are targeting if they want to break out of being a bit of a Cult of Nige populated by the very angry about everything.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited June 21
    Tory candidates selected recently.

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/06/18/sunaks-survivors-our-list-of-new-conservative-candidates-in-winnable-seats/

    Includes Giles Brandreth's daughter Aphra, who might just be able to hold Cheshire South & Eddisbury. She contested Kingston & Surbiton last time against Ed Davey.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 99
    edited June 21
    N/m discontinued apparently!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6

    Rowling is one of those younger lefties who eventually end up as fascists in old age. She's nearly there. Not quite, but give it four years.
    It is sad that you label anyone you disagree with as a fascist. Rowling has a perfect valid position with regard to women's rights - one that only a few years ago would have been considered solidly left wing. The fact that Labour are losing the support of people like her says everything you need to know about how extreme they have become on some of the more fanatical social issues. You like to think of gthem as a centre left party but when it comes to these sorts of debates they are far out on the extremes
    When I said she's nearly there, I think you misinterpreted that as meaning her opinions are close to fascism. That's not what I meant. What I meant was that she's reaching an angle of repose that will result in an avalanche into utter madness. Think of Spiked. The cracks are there. She's on the brink of madness. It's the sort of thing you see every so often. Hippies that wake up one day wanting to exterminate Gypsies. She's mixing in the right crowds. In a few years time it'll be leather boots and barbed-wire fantasies.

    Come back in 2028 and tell me I was wrong.
    Well, you're a fucking lunatic NOW so perhaps you can tell us how you got there? And that might enlighten us as to JKR's likely evolution
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Just visited a pub for 10 mins, which consisted of a lot of fat men saying how awful all politicians are. Not very inspiring.

    If you had visited a pub during an election campaign 100 years ago you would probably have heard fat men at the bar saying much the same
    People at the bar wouldn't have been fat 100 years ago.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676
    MJW said:

    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    I would trace the moment Corbyn lost the British electorate back to his equivocation over the Salisbury poisonings.

    Others may minimise it, but I think Farage misjudges Britain having spent too much time with Trump and his MAGA band. Isolationism is a long established American tradition. It’s not a British one.
    I think that probably Farage spends more time chatting to and gauging the mood of the left behind voters in pubs, working men's clubs and provincial high streets even than you Tim. We should at least consider the possibility.
    Absolute lol. You mean man of the people Nige isn’t a complete fucking act, after all!

    He’s the biggest fake in my political lifetime. By some margin.

    I didn't say anything wasn't an act. I suggested a small possibility that he may know that what he's said in the Nick Robinson interview won't go down as awfully with his target voters as we think. Could be wrong.
    The question is which target voters (and what's Farage's game)? There's little doubt that there's a not insignificant tranche of people who are "stop the world I want to get off" voters who dislike modern Britain/the world so much they go down the rabbithole of "Putin's not such a bad bloke", WEF conspiracy theories, and far right stuff. You will hear it in pubs from time to time, you're right.

    They also exist on the left too as well - which is why even at its low ebbs the SWP or the assorted alphabet soup of intermingling organisations can stage some pretty large protests when there's a cause to provide the excuse to hit the streets.

    But it's not that large amid the wider sea of the electorate (though maybe grew a bit in the pandemic, or certainly got louder) - and importantly everyone else really can't stand that nonsense. For every two or three blokes boring on about "the government and MSM don't want us to say it, you'll get arrested", there are 15 others who want them to shut up and go away. They're also a pretty unreliable voting bloc - even if you're an outsider tailoring your appeal to them.

    Which brings us to the question, what's his game? If we accept Reform are polling at 15-20%, and Farage's aim is to replace the Tories - either now or deal them such a fatal blow they have to beg him to rule over the ashes - then the next step is to keep/move on to persuading those who aren't among those people, that Reform are a good bet. It's the more traditionally conservative, patriotic voters rather than the blokes who think all politicians are "in on it" (whatever it is), who are disillusioned that he needs to be reassuring or persuading by hammering the Reform policies they like - namely hardline immigration ones.

    I doubt "Putin's not so bad and it's partly Britain's fault" plays particularly well with that group. For whom security and standing up to our enemies - and Putin is very much perceived as that, remember Salisbury and its effect on Corbyn - has some importance. Who should be who Reform are targeting if they want to break out of being a bit of a Cult of Nige populated by the very angry about everything.
    Putin is a WEF alumnus, so the anti WEF grouping wouldn't be keen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6

    Rowling is one of those younger lefties who eventually end up as fascists in old age. She's nearly there. Not quite, but give it four years.
    It is sad that you label anyone you disagree with as a fascist. Rowling has a perfect valid position with regard to women's rights - one that only a few years ago would have been considered solidly left wing. The fact that Labour are losing the support of people like her says everything you need to know about how extreme they have become on some of the more fanatical social issues. You like to think of gthem as a centre left party but when it comes to these sorts of debates they are far out on the extremes
    When I said she's nearly there, I think you misinterpreted that as meaning her opinions are close to fascism. That's not what I meant. What I meant was that she's reaching an angle of repose that will result in an avalanche into utter madness. Think of Spiked. The cracks are there. She's on the brink of madness. It's the sort of thing you see every so often. Hippies that wake up one day wanting to exterminate Gypsies. She's mixing in the right crowds. In a few years time it'll be leather boots and barbed-wire fantasies.

    Come back in 2028 and tell me I was wrong.
    Perhaps a bit longer, but I think you are on the right track.

    She's falling down the rabbit hole.
  • booksellerbookseller Posts: 504
    HYUFD said:

    Anyone got any thoughts about Witney? DC's old stomping ground although boundary changes have made exact comps a bit harder.

    On the ground observation: LD candidate (Charlie Maynard) is very energetic, lots of leaflets and very visible. Conservative (Robert Courts) largely anonymous. LD throwing the kitchen sink at it, it seems. But I can't see Con losing given the LD/Labour vote split and the obvious immunity to Farage out in the Oxfordshire countryside.

    Con are 9/4 on Oddschecker and 2/1 on William Hill.

    I would say Didcot and Wantage, Henley, even Banbury and Bicester and Woodstock are more likely to be lost by the Tories in Oxfordshire than Witney
    Yes, I'd agree with that. I actually have a sneaking admiration for the Didcot MP (David Johnston and not just because we are both LFC supporters). Seems a decent bloke. By a curious twist of fate before recent boundary changes we were in Didcot & Wantage and the LD PPC (Olly Glover) was someone I have a lot of admiration for.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1804248188913881133

    EXCLUSIVE:

    JK Rowling has accused Sir Keir Starmer of 'abandoning women' who are concerned about transgender rights

    In an article for The Times the author criticised the Labour leader for taking a 'dismissive and often offensive' approach to feminist concerns

    She said she can no longer vote for the party that she was once a member of because she does not trust Starmer’s judgement and has a 'poor opinion' of his character

    ...and in other news; we confirm the Pope is Catholic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, and in the spirit of Rogerdamus de Villefranche-sur-Mer, I just took my older daughter home via Uber - after a WONDERFUL picnic in the Chilterns, then drinks with friends in Primrose Hill

    The driver was a Somalian Muslim with Swedish citizenship. We had an impassioned debate (it was a long 57 minute journey) about everything from Gareth Southgate's failings to his own upbringing in war-torn Mogadishu to the likely UK election outcome to the problem of gangs in Malmo to his son's ambitions to be a journalist (I gave the best advice I could) to a really nuanced debate on Israel/Palestine

    He was fiercely intelligent and put most PB-ers to shame with his knowledge of the history of Israel/Palestine and the intractable nature of the conflict. I felt quite humbled by the end, that a recent immigrant to the UK with English as his likely third language was so well informed on so many things. He was certainly not knee-jerk pro-Hamas

    Really quite something, Reminded me why I love London. The driver also kept repeating this (and I don't believe he did it for effect) - how much he loved Britain and London ("and my son loves it even more")

    A lot of food for thought. You can learn a lot in an hour of intense debate

    And yet you tell us that Muslim immigrants don't want to integrate.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    Leon said:

    Incidentally, and in the spirit of Rogerdamus de Villefranche-sur-Mer, I just took my older daughter home via Uber - after a WONDERFUL picnic in the Chilterns, then drinks with friends in Primrose Hill

    The driver was a Somalian Muslim with Swedish citizenship. We had an impassioned debate (it was a long 57 minute journey) about everything from Gareth Southgate's failings to his own upbringing in war-torn Mogadishu to the likely UK election outcome to the problem of gangs in Malmo to his son's ambitions to be a journalist (I gave the best advice I could) to a really nuanced debate on Israel/Palestine

    He was fiercely intelligent and put most PB-ers to shame with his knowledge of the history of Israel/Palestine and the intractable nature of the conflict. I felt quite humbled by the end, that a recent immigrant to the UK with English as his likely third language was so well informed on so many things. He was certainly not knee-jerk pro-Hamas

    Really quite something, Reminded me why I love London. The driver also kept repeating this (and I don't believe he did it for effect) - how much he loved Britain and London ("and my son loves it even more")

    A lot of food for thought. You can learn a lot in an hour of intense debate

    Interesting, thanks for writing.
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166

    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    If you think it’s not legitimate to seek to influence the decisions of other countries then should foreign policy in general be seen as an anachronism and we should close the foreign office?
    I notice that you have employed the normal tactic of the politician in seeking to avoid answering my question, by demanding more answers to irrelevant questions to try and cover the avoidance. Now I invite you again to answer the question as asked, are you suggesting the USA should be able to stop the U.K. rejoining the EU just because they don’t like it? It’s a simple question. As for your pointless question to suggest that invading your neighbour and murdering thousands of civilians is seeking to ‘influence’ the decisions of other countries through a legitimate foreign policy is deluded and absurd.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, and in the spirit of Rogerdamus de Villefranche-sur-Mer, I just took my older daughter home via Uber - after a WONDERFUL picnic in the Chilterns, then drinks with friends in Primrose Hill

    The driver was a Somalian Muslim with Swedish citizenship. We had an impassioned debate (it was a long 57 minute journey) about everything from Gareth Southgate's failings to his own upbringing in war-torn Mogadishu to the likely UK election outcome to the problem of gangs in Malmo to his son's ambitions to be a journalist (I gave the best advice I could) to a really nuanced debate on Israel/Palestine

    He was fiercely intelligent and put most PB-ers to shame with his knowledge of the history of Israel/Palestine and the intractable nature of the conflict. I felt quite humbled by the end, that a recent immigrant to the UK with English as his likely third language was so well informed on so many things. He was certainly not knee-jerk pro-Hamas

    Really quite something, Reminded me why I love London. The driver also kept repeating this (and I don't believe he did it for effect) - how much he loved Britain and London ("and my son loves it even more")

    A lot of food for thought. You can learn a lot in an hour of intense debate

    And yet you tell us that Muslim immigrants don't want to integrate.

    Too many don't, I fear. But this guy absolutely did, and it was deeply refreshing to hear - he was certainly not a "devout" Muslim, and he admitted that

    My views are never fixed forever, and I aim to learn all the time. Do you not?

    Also, how often do any of us get to talk INTENSELY and deeply about serious politics with a recent Somalian immigrant? I suggest that is quite unusual, and I am glad I took the opportunity. I also think I gave good advice to his son on getting into journalism!

    And now I must abed, after a weirdly brilliant day
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,089
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "JK Rowling: Labour has dismissed women like me. I’ll struggle to vote for it

    Keir Starmer has failed to convince me that his party has changed its position on the rights of women — it struggles to say what a woman is at all"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/jk-rowling-labour-has-dismissed-women-like-me-ill-struggle-to-vote-for-it-rrgbcrkd6

    Rowling is one of those younger lefties who eventually end up as fascists in old age. She's nearly there. Not quite, but give it four years.
    It is sad that you label anyone you disagree with as a fascist. Rowling has a perfect valid position with regard to women's rights - one that only a few years ago would have been considered solidly left wing. The fact that Labour are losing the support of people like her says everything you need to know about how extreme they have become on some of the more fanatical social issues. You like to think of gthem as a centre left party but when it comes to these sorts of debates they are far out on the extremes
    When I said she's nearly there, I think you misinterpreted that as meaning her opinions are close to fascism. That's not what I meant. What I meant was that she's reaching an angle of repose that will result in an avalanche into utter madness. Think of Spiked. The cracks are there. She's on the brink of madness. It's the sort of thing you see every so often. Hippies that wake up one day wanting to exterminate Gypsies. She's mixing in the right crowds. In a few years time it'll be leather boots and barbed-wire fantasies.

    Come back in 2028 and tell me I was wrong.
    I suspect this is just wishful thinking on your part as you could then use it to justfy your opposition to her views on Transgender issues.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 269

    https://x.com/steven_swinford/status/1804248188913881133

    EXCLUSIVE:

    JK Rowling has accused Sir Keir Starmer of 'abandoning women' who are concerned about transgender rights

    In an article for The Times the author criticised the Labour leader for taking a 'dismissive and often offensive' approach to feminist concerns

    She said she can no longer vote for the party that she was once a member of because she does not trust Starmer’s judgement and has a 'poor opinion' of his character

    ...and in other news; we confirm the Pope is Catholic.
    Coincidentally GLP are currently crowdfunding for a legal action on behalf of trans children, due to sharp increase in suicides following support services being closed down.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Incidentally, and in the spirit of Rogerdamus de Villefranche-sur-Mer, I just took my older daughter home via Uber - after a WONDERFUL picnic in the Chilterns, then drinks with friends in Primrose Hill

    The driver was a Somalian Muslim with Swedish citizenship. We had an impassioned debate (it was a long 57 minute journey) about everything from Gareth Southgate's failings to his own upbringing in war-torn Mogadishu to the likely UK election outcome to the problem of gangs in Malmo to his son's ambitions to be a journalist (I gave the best advice I could) to a really nuanced debate on Israel/Palestine

    He was fiercely intelligent and put most PB-ers to shame with his knowledge of the history of Israel/Palestine and the intractable nature of the conflict. I felt quite humbled by the end, that a recent immigrant to the UK with English as his likely third language was so well informed on so many things. He was certainly not knee-jerk pro-Hamas

    Really quite something, Reminded me why I love London. The driver also kept repeating this (and I don't believe he did it for effect) - how much he loved Britain and London ("and my son loves it even more")

    A lot of food for thought. You can learn a lot in an hour of intense debate

    And yet you tell us that Muslim immigrants don't want to integrate.

    Too many don't, I fear. But this guy absolutely did, and it was deeply refreshing to hear - he was certainly not a "devout" Muslim, and he admitted that

    My views are never fixed forever, and I aim to learn all the time. Do you not?

    Also, how often do any of us get to talk INTENSELY and deeply about serious politics with a recent Somalian immigrant? I suggest that is quite unusual, and I am glad I took the opportunity. I also think I gave good advice to his son on getting into journalism!

    And now I must abed, after a weirdly brilliant day
    "with Swedish citizenship"

    Why the fuck is he living here then?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    johnt said:

    johnt said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    What is on show from Farage, ahead of whatever admiration for Putin is a blind hatred for Europeanism in all its forms. Blaming NATO is blaming the EU, and my enemy's enemy....

    One day, sir, maybe not that soon, Moscow WILL be the eastern pole of Western European integrationism and you will have to stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

    What Farage is either unwilling, or just too ignorant to admit, is that what ‘provoked’ Putin was Ukraine’s desire to join the EU.

    NATO was a secondary consideration/excuse.
    https://x.com/nigel_farage/status/1804256739270996102

    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war in Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.
    What a twat.
    The arrogance of the guy thinking he gets to say what a sovereign country can or can’t do.
    A country can’t unilaterally join the EU. It’s legitimate to comment on the foreign policy of its members (which included us at the time).
    Don’t be absurd.
    It’s fuck all to do with Farage what either Ukraine or the EU want.
    The point is just that it's not as simple as the right of a sovereign country to decide for itself.

    Our membership was initially vetoed by France, for example. Was that an infringement of our sovergeign right to decide?
    It was fine for France to veto our application because they were a member (and our membership of their club would have an impact on them). The fact that you even seem to be trying to make the comparison is absurd. What you are suggesting is that it would have been fine for the USA to oppose us being in the EU simply because they did not like it? Now why would anyone think they should have that right?
    If you think it’s not legitimate to seek to influence the decisions of other countries then should foreign policy in general be seen as an anachronism and we should close the foreign office?
    I notice that you have employed the normal tactic of the politician in seeking to avoid answering my question, by demanding more answers to irrelevant questions to try and cover the avoidance. Now I invite you again to answer the question as asked, are you suggesting the USA should be able to stop the U.K. rejoining the EU just because they don’t like it? It’s a simple question. As for your pointless question to suggest that invading your neighbour and murdering thousands of civilians is seeking to ‘influence’ the decisions of other countries through a legitimate foreign policy is deluded and absurd.
    That wasn't your question. Your question was whether it would have been fine for them to oppose it, and the answer to that is clearly yes. Whether they could succeed in stopping it and how far they would be willing to go to do so is another matter.

    Try changing the hypothetical to something where the goal strikes you obviously correct. For example, should the USA have a policy of preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons?
This discussion has been closed.