When assumptions go wrong – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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You can and we must, no longer can we rely on importing most of our food from abroad.eek said:
And the damage has been done you simply can’t compete against the mega New Zealand and Australian farmsScott_xP said:
Bollocks.HYUFD said:The vast majority of Leave voters (except a handful of libertarians like Hannan, Richard Tyndall and Bart Roberts) did not vote for new trade deals, they voted to cut immigration and regain control of our laws and sovereignty. Farmers certainly didn't vote for any trade deals that see cheap foreign food imports filling our supermarkets, they voted for tighter controls on EU food imports and more support for British farms and food producers
What they voted for is what they got.
They were told before the vote this would happen.
If that means more subsidies for British farmers and tariffs on some food imports than so be it. Most other nations subsidise their farmers more than we do and are more protectionist0 -
The whole love affair that a part of the radical right has for Putin is revolting.MarqueeMark said:
The Tories should be roasting Farage for this. Proudly wrap us in the Ukrinian flag. It is a popular policy where this Government can rightly trumpet its support against Putin. Farage being so far up his rectum needs to be widely known by those who support Ukraine's struggle for freedom.TheScreamingEagles said:Another traitorous Reform candidate that shills for Putin.
Reform is the party of UK hating traitors.
No fucking way the Tory party merges with these roasters.
A candidate for Nigel Farage’s Reform party called the King “weak” and claimed he was under the control of global elites.
Angela Carter-Begbie questioned the King’s loyalty to Britain, saying it was “about time King Charles show where he truly lye” [sic], and said she was “not a fan”.
The candidate, who is standing for Reform in the new seat of Queen’s Park and Maida Vale in northwest London at the general election, wrote on her Twitter/X account on April 23 to say that he was “under the WEF”, referring to the World Economic Forum, which organises the annual meeting in Davos of world political and business leaders.
The conspiracy theory, which aligns itself with claims that a shadowy global elite control the world’s population, is one of several she had promoted online.
These include the conspiracy theories that the 9/11 terrorist attack on the Twin Towers was an “inside job” and the Covid-19 vaccine rollout was “like the Holocaust”.
Carter-Begbie blamed the fathers of grooming-gang victims for the crimes of their predators and repeatedly posted in support of the far-right leader Tommy Robinson.
She also claimed the war in Ukraine was started by Nato.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-angela-carter-begbie-king-charles-220fnsgb9
Marjorie Taylor Greene no doubt has fantasies about him.4 -
We should be kind and offer them a place in the United Kingdom. Five MPs each and then can keep their Parliaments and legal jurisdictions to a large degree. Seems fair.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God the UK is no longer chained to those sick men of Europe, France and Germany...Andy_JS said:"France is ‘going to the dogs,’ Macron’s inner circle despairs"
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-president-emmanuel-macron-finance-minister-bruno-le-maire-elysee-french-election/
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I’m making a note. We now know turnout is not zero - I shall go and check the bands.Peter_the_Punter said:Just sent in my postal vote.
Like all good PBers, I voted tactically, i.e., in accordance with my betting portfolio.
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When I visited Jefferson's famous home, Monticello, last year I was amused by the way the guides referred to his slaves as "members of the enslaved community", like they were all Amish or a group of fervent trainspottersSean_F said:
Slave owners tend to be lazy, like people who have access to vast natural resources The profits of slavery will go into a new wing for one's country house, art, race horses, more than into devising more efficient ways of working. The South of the USA for example, had fallen a very long way behind the North, by 1860. Bizarrely, almost all slave owners died deeply in debt (like Jefferson), because of their conspicuous, and ostentatious, consumption.Nigelb said:
Of course.Sean_F said:
Well, as @rcs1000 often points out, big events have multiple causes. You can point to the profits from slavery, as one factor in industrialisation. As you can, the profits from agriculture, and the Baltic and Mediterranean trades. There was more to the British economy than slavery, in 1790..Tweedledee said:
IR emerges from the slave trade because you have material to process and transport, and profits to invest.Casino_Royale said:
It was the industrial revolution which was a function of energy, technology, trade and labour.Tweedledee said:
Well, it was (your last paragraph) because it was the foundation of foreign trade. You go from exporting a bit of wool to slaves themselves and sugar and rum and coffee and cotton and made cotton goods and stuff all in one go. The National Trust gets a lot of stick but I bet 9 houses out of 10 they control has a splendid new West Wing dating from spookily close to the date of abolition and reparations.Casino_Royale said:.
*I should also add it strongly suggested that all of Britain's wealth was founded on the slave trade, framing the reparations argument.Casino_Royale said:Unconscious bias training
So, this was billed as an hour-long. Anonymous and to help etc. It had a running % on the taskbar beneath so you could track how far through the course you'd got. Run by Hemisphere.
Much of it initially was just good management stuff. Don't judge people by whether they have a firm handshake or not, or whether they make good eye contact. Don't organise social events that exclusively centre on alcohol etc. Listen carefully to context. Determine what questions are important in an interview or not. So far, so fair.
It then put up a 13 minute video on the history of Britain and black people in Britain. This is where it got really interesting as it was presented as an entirely factual "did you know?" education piece presented by a softly-spoken Scottish lady.
Started off with a big play on Cheddar Man's predicted dark skin colour as the earliest black Briton, where skin colour then became lighter over time due to subsquent migration and the lattitude. Then, it jumped to the Celts and how the Romans displaced the Celts, and how black people formed some of the guards on Hadrians Wall. Suggested the Roman Empire was very inclusive. After that it jumped to the Tudors and how a few black people were in the Royal Navy at the time. Not an issue at all.
It then went on to say "this all changed" with the start of the transatlantic slave trade. And how attitudes to black people then changed to being seen as commodities. It practically suggested racism was invented here. It only very briefly touched on abolition, and didn't mention at all the Royal Navy's role in suppressing the slave trade. It then moved on to how in WWI minorities were never promoted and then into Windrush. After that, it moved onto Stephen Lawrence and the Windrush Scandal. Much to my amazement it finished with a 2-minute clip (verbatim) of David Lammy's speech in the Commons to Amber Rudd on the Windrush Scandal. Pretty much the whole thing. Ends by saying he won the Parliamentarian of the Year award.
Since I couldn't complete the mandatory training without watching this video in full, I was required to do so. The % complete then inexplicably jumped from 28% to 90% (and I couldn't navigate back) the bit being missed supposedly about interview scenarios and dos and donts, which might actually have been half-useful. But I couldn't get back to it. So I finished the course. And then I gave my feedback, which was not at all positive on the "history" video as I felt it was highly partial in both its selection and presentation of facts and how it framed them as truth. The end bit was nakedly party political.
All done now. 2/10. Something about it suggested to me that even my employer thinks it's somehow about going through the motions. But I hope in years to come such training, if it really is needed, becomes depoliticised entirely because taking amateur crowbars to history like this won't stand up to much scrutiny, even in the medium-term, and risks a backlash.
They only focus on the last part, and the unfree bit at that. Which ended before the largest increases in Britain's prosperity anyway.
What really backfires is all the millions of Britons who worked very long and unsafe hours in the dark satanic mills - who made that happen by actually manufacturing all the products - being told today they had white privilege.
It's mainly metropolitan liberals broadcasting out their vapid bilge without a clue or care as to its impact, provided it makes them look good in their social circle.
But as I noted upthread, the profits from the sugar trade were pretty well banked and done by then.
However these same guides did point out, quite usefully and intriguingly, that Jefferson lived such a high life by the end of it, despite vast wealth, he was reduced to drinking "inferior wine" - even local cider and beer - and not the Bordeaux and champagne he adored2 -
For sure, and I think it's still very much a live ethical issue. Should a free State trade with a State that uses slave labour, disguised or not, or has other appalling working practices?Nigelb said:
There's also the point that the dramatic growth in the (previously almost non-existent) cotton trade in Britain would have been almost impossible with US slavery.Sean_F said:
I think there is truth to the argument that the profits from slavery provided some of the capital that drove industrialisation. But, it's not, by any means, the whole of the story. And, in the long run, industrialisation benefitted the whole world, not just the UK.BartholomewRoberts said:
Slavery did have minimal economic contribution to the development of the UK, which is part of the reason why we abolished it.Nigelb said:
I'm not touching the whole reparations argument.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Norman reparations would bankrupt France so we really should be in favour of reparations.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. grss, there's still a high correlation between descent from the Normans accompanying the Conqueror and being of high status in society (MPs, wealthy, etc). Should I, as a Yorkshireman, be entitled to reparations for the Harrowing of the North?
I don't want reparations, of course. Only a fool would advocate that people who have done nothing wrong should be compelled give money to people who have suffered no wrong at their hands.
I'm just curious if you think an ongoing impact is the clinching argument. Yorkshire's population was dramatically hit, I think Marc Morris asserted 75% total dead (mostly starved).
But I would note that the people most triggered by the idea are (entirely coincidentally) the same ones minimising the economic contribution of slavery to the development of the UK economy over the century and a half from around 1700.
The converse seems of course to be true of those who think reparations a good idea.
Slavery has existed since time immemorial and yet Britain was the first and only dominant Empire to abolish it. Why?
Because the rise of Britain was not based upon, funded by or relying upon slavery. Instead we discovered the key to economic growth - investing in technology. Improving productivity. Something slave-based economies being over-reliant on cheap manual labour were typically* singularly lacking in.
It is investment, productivity and most of all education and technology that was behind the UK's economic rise. Its also what we need a return to and we're struggling now due to a lack of investment in productivity and an overreliance on cheap manual labour instead.
* The Romans being a notable exception who heavily invested as well as having slavery, which is why they came to dominate their era and were so successful for so long.
In 1760 we imported a bit over 2 million pounds of cotton; fifty million by 1800, and over six hundred million by 1850.
Cotton goods were over half out exports by value in the first half of the 19th C, and accounted for around 8% of GDP.
That changed in the second half of the 19th C, but the cotton trade was an enormous part of the rise to economic dominance of the UK, and it's simply bad history to minimise it, whatever your views on our moral status.3 -
Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/18030379512715225310 -
This was never customer facing.Andy_JS said:
This doesn't surprise me at all, given my experience with banks and fraud alerts.TheScreamingEagles said:
We tried AI to spot fraudulent/AML transactions.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
It flagged up 80% of legitimate transactions as dodgy and only flagged up 5% of fraudulent transactions as dodgy.0 -
That's yesterday's DeltapollBatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/18030379512715225311 -
That's yesterday's poll.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/18030379512715225312 -
Hi HeathenerHeathener said:
Can I ask you please to be searingly honest? Are you a LibDem voter? Your “nothing […] in any manner” makes me less, not more, likely to believe you. It’s overdone.Pro_Rata said:
There is nothing about Newton Abbot that says Labour to me in any manner for a tactical vote. Lib Dem all the way.Heathener said:
Actually that’s a really good point as well. Some of the undecideds may be Tactical Voters?Foxy said:
I am showing up in the polls (not this one) as undecided, but will definitely vote. I don't think I am the only one on this board.ydoethur said:I would have thought the most likely outcome for a big chunk of that 43% is not voting at all. If they've got so far and are still uncertain...
My Newton Abbot constituency is conflicted!
Best for Britain tell me to vote Labour: https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001381
Tactical.vote tell me to vote LibDem:
https://tactical.vote/newton-abbot/
and
TacticalVote.co.uk haven’t yet made up their mind!
https://tacticalvote.co.uk/#NewtonAbbot
So whereas I thought I might have to vote LibDem, I’m no longer sure!
Tactical.Vote didn’t even think about it, seemingly. They put LibDem from the word go.
Best for Britain took 3 weeks to weigh it up, carefully, and concluded that I should vote Labour.
I'd broadly regard myself as a fairly centrist Labour supporter in a traditional Northern seat and who has always voted to advance the cause of a social democratic party of power - and ultimately Labour not LD is a party of power in the current setup. But I've been perfectly prepared to vote as needed in that cause when I lived in Con/LD marginals and when Corbyn took Labour away from that.
So, in 2019 I was a Con voter in a still safe Labour seat and would likely have voted LD in any seat where the result was at all in doubt, the aim being to send Labour the clearest message to change course without any real risk of helping return a Tory MP. I swung back to red VI the day Starmer took charge.
And looking at the numbers, I think any complication over the 'nomimal second last time out' is absolutely the only tactical approach to take to maximise the effectiveness of a tactical vote - so when kle4 wondered what to do in his Wiltshire patch, my suggestion for him was Labour.2 -
Even with slavery, though, I think racism developed very differently in individual countries. The UK never had the US South's obsession with the "one drop" rule. French and Spanish planters often intermarried with ex-slaves, and over time, their elites tended to be of mixed race.bondegezou said:
But 148grss said racism “as we know it today”. The form racism takes in modern Western cultures is very tied up with the transatlantic slave trade and empire. That doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist in other places and times — it does/has — but the particular hierarchy and focuses of racism in places like the UK reflects our particular history.JosiasJessop said:
I'd argue it is unreasonable to do so; or, at least, a very partial viewing of history. Racism is not just about white towards black people; or white towards any other skin colour. Racism exists all around the world, and in all sorts of directions. It is also not a uniquely British, or even western, phenomenon.148grss said:
The thing people forget about prejudice and race is that, historically speaking, skin colour / race was not always the category for prejudicial thought. In the classical period, for example, there was no understanding of whiteness as we have it now - the Romans and Greeks felt they had more in common with the Persians and Egyptians than they did with the Gauls and Celts of Western Europe. To say that the Roman Empire was inclusive is to note that anyone regardless of skin colour, religion or origin of birth could be a Roman Citizen and eligible for the rights of that citizenship. Again - race as denoted by skin colour was not really a factor here. The divide was Civilised versus Barbarian. And lots of "white" people were in that Barbarian camp.Casino_Royale said:Unconscious bias training
So, this was billed as an hour-long. Anonymous and to help etc. It had a running % on the taskbar beneath so you could track how far through the course you'd got. Run by Hemisphere.
Much of it initially was just good management stuff. Don't judge people by whether they have a firm handshake or not, or whether they make good eye contact. Don't organise social events that exclusively centre on alcohol etc. Listen carefully to context. Determine what questions are important in an interview or not. So far, so fair.
It then put up a 13 minute video on the history of Britain and black people in Britain. This is where it got really interesting as it was presented as an entirely factual "did you know?" education piece presented by a softly-spoken Scottish lady.
Started off with a big play on Cheddar Man's predicted dark skin colour as the earliest black Briton, where skin colour then became lighter over time due to subsquent migration and the lattitude. Then, it jumped to the Celts and how the Romans displaced the Celts, and how black people formed some of the guards on Hadrians Wall. Suggested the Roman Empire was very inclusive. After that it jumped to the Tudors and how a few black people were in the Royal Navy at the time. Not an issue at all.
It then went on to say "this all changed" with the start of the transatlantic slave trade. And how attitudes to black people then changed to being seen as commodities. It practically suggested racism was invented here. It only very briefly touched on abolition, and didn't mention at all the Royal Navy's role in suppressing the slave trade. It then moved on to how in WWI minorities were never promoted and then into Windrush. After that, it moved onto Stephen Lawrence and the Windrush Scandal. Much to my amazement it finished with a 2-minute clip (verbatim) of David Lammy's speech in the Commons to Amber Rudd on the Windrush Scandal. Pretty much the whole thing. Ends by saying he won the Parliamentarian of the Year award.
Since I couldn't complete the mandatory training without watching this video in full, I was required to do so. The % complete then inexplicably jumped from 28% to 90% (and I couldn't navigate back) the bit being missed supposedly about interview scenarios and dos and donts, which might actually have been half-useful. But I couldn't get back to it. So I finished the course. And then I gave my feedback, which was not at all positive on the "history" video as I felt it was highly partial in both its selection and presentation of facts and how it framed them as truth. The end bit was nakedly party political.
All done now. 2/10. Something about it suggested to me that even my employer thinks it's somehow about going through the motions. But I hope in years to come such training, if it really is needed, becomes depoliticised entirely because taking amateur crowbars to history like this won't stand up to much scrutiny, even in the medium-term, and risks a backlash.
As for the shift to the construction of race and the slave trade; that seems mostly right - if a very broad brush / low level explanation. Again, during the middle ages the distinction of bigotry was more Christendom versus Heathens - which racialised Muslims and Jewish people but accepted converts and black Christians (mostly, obviously not always) - and shifted to skin based system with slavery. The construction of scientific racism also grew with empire - indeed, one of the first races deemed obviously inferior due to their obvious physical traits and natural inclinations were the Irish, arguably the first victims of British colonialism. Then race became much more of a feature as the transatlantic slave trade grew and scientific racism was needed to justify the enslavement of black Africans - especially amongst white liberationists, like Thomas Jefferson, who were great philosophers of freedom who constantly justified his own slave holding with the idea that black Africans were just too dumb to be left to their own devices and try and form a society. This was questioned at the time by many French revolutionaries, even with contemporaries pointing out how his slaves could do complex tasks in his nail manufacturing factories from a young age, so surely they can do skilled and complex labour and can be set free - and Jefferson just shrugging and then arguing about the problems of miscegenation.
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest, as a quick overview video, that racism as we know it today was likely "invented" during the period of the transatlantic slave trade and empire. Would some people have been prejudice towards people due to skin colour prior to that, sure, but the systemic ideology underlying the stereotypes of race only came about during this period.
E.g. in China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_China
Or in Japan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan
The very notion of “race” is a product of slavery and empire. Lots of ethnic groups discriminate against other ethnic groups, but the construction of specific races (Caucasian etc.), based on particular physical features like skin colour, comes from that time. There is plenty of racism in China and in Japan, but it is often different in form. (That doesn’t make it any better or worse: it’s just different.) If you are going to counter racism in the UK, it helps to understand the details of racism in the UK.5 -
I have long advocated swapping Scotland for Flanders. Scotland can re-enter the EU as part of Belgium and I am sure they will get on fine with the Walloons. We get the bit with most of the best beer.biggles said:
We should be kind and offer them a place in the United Kingdom. Five MPs each and then can keep their Parliaments and legal jurisdictions to a large degree. Seems fair.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God the UK is no longer chained to those sick men of Europe, France and Germany...Andy_JS said:"France is ‘going to the dogs,’ Macron’s inner circle despairs"
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-president-emmanuel-macron-finance-minister-bruno-le-maire-elysee-french-election/2 -
For anyone who likes a good conspiracy theory, the musician MIA has launched a clothing line with literal "tinfoil" hats.
https://www.ohmni.com/product-detail/durag0 -
Joey Barton learns about the find out part of fuck around and find out.
Joey Barton has apologised to Jeremy Vine and agreed to pay him £75,000 in damages and his legal costs over defamation and harassment claims.
A High Court judge ruled last month that comments ex-footballer Mr Barton made about Mr Vine on X were defamatory.
Mr Barton wrote on X on Tuesday: "I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp33exz7xe1o4 -
Hey PB and @Peter_the_Punter - I've come back from THE WAR and I have no postal vote in my mail. It should have arrived by now, right?Peter_the_Punter said:Just sent in my postal vote.
Like all good PBers, I voted tactically, i.e., in accordance with my betting portfolio.0 -
Thanks TripemanTheScreamingEagles said:
That's yesterday's poll.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/18030379512715225310 -
“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/18030260229100260751 -
I'm OK thanksBatteryCorrectHorse said:
No I know mate you just didn’t seem yourself these last few days. Was just checking you were doing okay in general.Casino_Royale said:
It was a joke on the whole Englishman, Irishman and a Scotsman routine.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Are you doing okay today Casino? You seemed a bit agitated in the last few days if you don't mind me saying so.Casino_Royale said:
What's the punchline?BatteryCorrectHorse said:Starmer and Theo Paphitis visit a bar in Basingstoke.
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There was a story on Farming Today this morning about how AI is counting blossom on trees for farmers with a 90% accuracy over the old human estimation which was about 50% accurate.FF43 said:
AI is good at doing boring things. There's a ton of useful development happening now of tedious tasks that humans can't do at the same scale because they can't be everywhere at once.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
AI is not on the whole good at doing interesting things. People are interested in interesting things obviously. Hence the AI hype and disconnect.
Although having listened I was chuckling to myself like an idiot child for ages as I had bastardised the song in my head to “Old Macdonald had a farm, AI, AI, Oh.”2 -
Possibly. But Corbyn had the vast advantage that he was just LOTO, and not PM, and therefore the amount of damage he could do was reduced. If Corbyn had been PM through Brexit, and also Covid and Ukraine, he would have even pi**ed off his supporters. In particular, his instincts on Covid and Ukraine were odd, to say the least.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Somehow, Rishi Sunak is going to end up more unpopular than Jeremy Corbyn, isn't he?
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Interesting as I would expect anti money laundering to be a suitable application for AI. The win could be detection at the point of transaction when most economic crime detection happens after the fact. But maybe the model isn't good, or money launderers don't launder in a consistent way.TheScreamingEagles said:
We tried AI to spot fraudulent/AML transactions.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
It flagged up 80% of legitimate transactions as dodgy and only flagged up 5% of fraudulent transactions as dodgy.0 -
Okay good to hear mate. Some people are getting at you a lot which I would find hard to bare too especially when it can appear quite personal.Casino_Royale said:
I'm OK thanksBatteryCorrectHorse said:
No I know mate you just didn’t seem yourself these last few days. Was just checking you were doing okay in general.Casino_Royale said:
It was a joke on the whole Englishman, Irishman and a Scotsman routine.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Are you doing okay today Casino? You seemed a bit agitated in the last few days if you don't mind me saying so.Casino_Royale said:
What's the punchline?BatteryCorrectHorse said:Starmer and Theo Paphitis visit a bar in Basingstoke.
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The campaign starts here. But I will add that Scotland has to take NI with it, and we get Malta in return for that, noting they never wanted independence anyway.JohnLilburne said:
I have long advocated swapping Scotland for Flanders. Scotland can re-enter the EU as part of Belgium and I am sure they will get on fine with the Walloons. We get the bit with most of the best beer.biggles said:
We should be kind and offer them a place in the United Kingdom. Five MPs each and then can keep their Parliaments and legal jurisdictions to a large degree. Seems fair.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God the UK is no longer chained to those sick men of Europe, France and Germany...Andy_JS said:"France is ‘going to the dogs,’ Macron’s inner circle despairs"
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-president-emmanuel-macron-finance-minister-bruno-le-maire-elysee-french-election/
1 -
On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid0
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Is £75k enough for an ex-footballer (presumably a man of means) with his profile?TheScreamingEagles said:Joey Barton learns about the find out part of fuck around and find out.
Joey Barton has apologised to Jeremy Vine and agreed to pay him £75,000 in damages and his legal costs over defamation and harassment claims.
A High Court judge ruled last month that comments ex-footballer Mr Barton made about Mr Vine on X were defamatory.
Mr Barton wrote on X on Tuesday: "I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp33exz7xe1o
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Afternoon all
The R&W data tables tell a different story to YouGov. They have 10% Don't Knows and 7% Won't Votes. The turnout looks to be mid-60s so not too much different to 2019.
The DK figure falls to 9% based on Likelihood to Vote - 6% among men, 12% among women. 11% among Conservative 2019 voters - in actual numbers 322 out of 707 from an overall weighted sample of 7800. The next biggest group are those who Didn't Vote in 2019 (243 or 23% of the total DKs).
I don't see a cavalry of DKs riding over the horizon to save Rishi Sunak - there aren't that many and there's no evidence they will break disproportionately for the Conservatives.
In raw data, Reform at 1529 led the Conservatives on 1484 but taking likelihood to vote into account, the Conservatives regained the lead 1306 to 1301. We can include Conservative supporters, though few, are more likely to vote than Reform and the latter needs to turn these pledges of support into actual votes to take second overall.1 -
If you want to get TSE’s posts before he posts them, just follow him on Twitter. It’s like owning a time machine or being in some exclusive club.0
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Yes, which why Robert and I stopped you posting your shite about AI.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
7 -
At least when he's talking about aliens that immediately flags to everyone that its a load of shite.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, which why Robert and I stopped you posting your shite about AI.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
0 -
Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
0 -
...
I just came back from Malta and Gozo. Please believe me, we really don't want Malta back. Zimbabwean levels of post -independence corruption and it shows.biggles said:
The campaign starts here. But I will add that Scotland has to take NI with it, and we get Malta in return for that, noting they never wanted independence anyway.JohnLilburne said:
I have long advocated swapping Scotland for Flanders. Scotland can re-enter the EU as part of Belgium and I am sure they will get on fine with the Walloons. We get the bit with most of the best beer.biggles said:
We should be kind and offer them a place in the United Kingdom. Five MPs each and then can keep their Parliaments and legal jurisdictions to a large degree. Seems fair.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God the UK is no longer chained to those sick men of Europe, France and Germany...Andy_JS said:"France is ‘going to the dogs,’ Macron’s inner circle despairs"
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-president-emmanuel-macron-finance-minister-bruno-le-maire-elysee-french-election/1 -
Lab + Green at 50% and Con + Ref at 35%.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/1803037951271522531
A 5-6% swing between those two voting blocks, and consolidation in the latter, required for the Right to retake office.0 -
What happens is we can stop transactions before the recipient gets them so it is crucial we get that right.FF43 said:
Interesting as I would expect anti money laundering to be a suitable application for AI. The win could be detection at the point of transaction when most economic crime detection happens after the fact. But maybe the model isn't good, or money launderers don't launder in a consistent way.TheScreamingEagles said:
We tried AI to spot fraudulent/AML transactions.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
It flagged up 80% of legitimate transactions as dodgy and only flagged up 5% of fraudulent transactions as dodgy.
AI was okaying transfers to banks which are for example known fronts for the Iranian government.0 -
Hmm. Has to be a sunny island enough. We don’t want the hassle of Cyrpus, so maybe Rhodes?Mexicanpete said:...
I just came back from Malta and Gozo. Please believe me, we really don't want Malta back. Zimbabwean levels of post -independence corruption and it shows.biggles said:
The campaign starts here. But I will add that Scotland has to take NI with it, and we get Malta in return for that, noting they never wanted independence anyway.JohnLilburne said:
I have long advocated swapping Scotland for Flanders. Scotland can re-enter the EU as part of Belgium and I am sure they will get on fine with the Walloons. We get the bit with most of the best beer.biggles said:
We should be kind and offer them a place in the United Kingdom. Five MPs each and then can keep their Parliaments and legal jurisdictions to a large degree. Seems fair.MarqueeMark said:
Thank God the UK is no longer chained to those sick men of Europe, France and Germany...Andy_JS said:"France is ‘going to the dogs,’ Macron’s inner circle despairs"
https://www.politico.eu/article/france-president-emmanuel-macron-finance-minister-bruno-le-maire-elysee-french-election/0 -
They need to win over younger voters or long term they’re doomed. House building and uni fees.Casino_Royale said:
Lab + Green at 50% and Con + Ref at 35%.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/1803037951271522531
A 5-6% swing between those two voting blocks, and consolidation in the latter, required for the Right to retake office.0 -
He's appealing to the key swing vote demographic represented on this site by HYUFD.Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Everyone else finds it imbecilic.HYUFD said:
Finally some good policy from Rishi. A 'Buy British' policy will shore up the rural vote, the farming vote and even some of the Middle England vote for the Tories.Theuniondivvie said:He's just firing out any old shit that comes into his head now.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
Post Brexit and Putin's invasion of Ukraine we cannot rely on most of our food coming from imports, we need to grow and produce more of our own. I would also hope he increases farm subsidies for food production too0 -
We already do.Sean_F said:
For sure, and I think it's still very much a live ethical issue. Should a free State trade with a State that uses slave labour, disguised or not, or has other appalling working practices?Nigelb said:
There's also the point that the dramatic growth in the (previously almost non-existent) cotton trade in Britain would have been almost impossible with US slavery.Sean_F said:
I think there is truth to the argument that the profits from slavery provided some of the capital that drove industrialisation. But, it's not, by any means, the whole of the story. And, in the long run, industrialisation benefitted the whole world, not just the UK.BartholomewRoberts said:
Slavery did have minimal economic contribution to the development of the UK, which is part of the reason why we abolished it.Nigelb said:
I'm not touching the whole reparations argument.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Norman reparations would bankrupt France so we really should be in favour of reparations.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. grss, there's still a high correlation between descent from the Normans accompanying the Conqueror and being of high status in society (MPs, wealthy, etc). Should I, as a Yorkshireman, be entitled to reparations for the Harrowing of the North?
I don't want reparations, of course. Only a fool would advocate that people who have done nothing wrong should be compelled give money to people who have suffered no wrong at their hands.
I'm just curious if you think an ongoing impact is the clinching argument. Yorkshire's population was dramatically hit, I think Marc Morris asserted 75% total dead (mostly starved).
But I would note that the people most triggered by the idea are (entirely coincidentally) the same ones minimising the economic contribution of slavery to the development of the UK economy over the century and a half from around 1700.
The converse seems of course to be true of those who think reparations a good idea.
Slavery has existed since time immemorial and yet Britain was the first and only dominant Empire to abolish it. Why?
Because the rise of Britain was not based upon, funded by or relying upon slavery. Instead we discovered the key to economic growth - investing in technology. Improving productivity. Something slave-based economies being over-reliant on cheap manual labour were typically* singularly lacking in.
It is investment, productivity and most of all education and technology that was behind the UK's economic rise. Its also what we need a return to and we're struggling now due to a lack of investment in productivity and an overreliance on cheap manual labour instead.
* The Romans being a notable exception who heavily invested as well as having slavery, which is why they came to dominate their era and were so successful for so long.
In 1760 we imported a bit over 2 million pounds of cotton; fifty million by 1800, and over six hundred million by 1850.
Cotton goods were over half out exports by value in the first half of the 19th C, and accounted for around 8% of GDP.
That changed in the second half of the 19th C, but the cotton trade was an enormous part of the rise to economic dominance of the UK, and it's simply bad history to minimise it, whatever your views on our moral status.0 -
I was talking about GozoTheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, which why Robert and I stopped you posting your shite about AI.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
0 -
Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.0 -
Agreed. Do you have a theory why, given that, the Tory government ignored what these voters wanted?HYUFD said:
The vast majority of Leave voters (except a handful of libertarians like Hannan, Richard Tyndall and Bart Roberts) did not vote for new trade deals, they voted to cut immigration and regain control of our laws and sovereignty. Farmers certainly didn't vote for any trade deals that see cheap foreign food imports filling our supermarkets, they voted for tighter controls on EU food imports and more support for British farms and food producerswilliamglenn said:
It’s not a policy, is it?HYUFD said:
Finally some good policy from Rishi. A 'Buy British' policy will shore up the rural vote, the farming vote and even some of the Middle England vote for the Tories.Theuniondivvie said:He's just firing out any old shit that comes into his head now.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
Post Brexit and Putin's invasion of Ukraine we cannot rely on most of our food coming from imports, we need to grow and produce more of our own. I would also hope he increases farm subsidies for food production too
Is he going to cancel the trade deals that secured cheaper imports of food?0 -
He's got quite a few legal issues coming up so he might be struggling.biggles said:
Is £75k enough for an ex-footballer (presumably a man of means) with his profile?TheScreamingEagles said:Joey Barton learns about the find out part of fuck around and find out.
Joey Barton has apologised to Jeremy Vine and agreed to pay him £75,000 in damages and his legal costs over defamation and harassment claims.
A High Court judge ruled last month that comments ex-footballer Mr Barton made about Mr Vine on X were defamatory.
Mr Barton wrote on X on Tuesday: "I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp33exz7xe1o1 -
Oh this is so hot, love me some guy on guyTheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, which why Robert and I stopped you posting your shite about AI.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
1 -
It's an uncomfortable fact that quite a lot of the stuff we buy will have been produced by slave labour.Casino_Royale said:
We already do.Sean_F said:
For sure, and I think it's still very much a live ethical issue. Should a free State trade with a State that uses slave labour, disguised or not, or has other appalling working practices?Nigelb said:
There's also the point that the dramatic growth in the (previously almost non-existent) cotton trade in Britain would have been almost impossible with US slavery.Sean_F said:
I think there is truth to the argument that the profits from slavery provided some of the capital that drove industrialisation. But, it's not, by any means, the whole of the story. And, in the long run, industrialisation benefitted the whole world, not just the UK.BartholomewRoberts said:
Slavery did have minimal economic contribution to the development of the UK, which is part of the reason why we abolished it.Nigelb said:
I'm not touching the whole reparations argument.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Norman reparations would bankrupt France so we really should be in favour of reparations.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. grss, there's still a high correlation between descent from the Normans accompanying the Conqueror and being of high status in society (MPs, wealthy, etc). Should I, as a Yorkshireman, be entitled to reparations for the Harrowing of the North?
I don't want reparations, of course. Only a fool would advocate that people who have done nothing wrong should be compelled give money to people who have suffered no wrong at their hands.
I'm just curious if you think an ongoing impact is the clinching argument. Yorkshire's population was dramatically hit, I think Marc Morris asserted 75% total dead (mostly starved).
But I would note that the people most triggered by the idea are (entirely coincidentally) the same ones minimising the economic contribution of slavery to the development of the UK economy over the century and a half from around 1700.
The converse seems of course to be true of those who think reparations a good idea.
Slavery has existed since time immemorial and yet Britain was the first and only dominant Empire to abolish it. Why?
Because the rise of Britain was not based upon, funded by or relying upon slavery. Instead we discovered the key to economic growth - investing in technology. Improving productivity. Something slave-based economies being over-reliant on cheap manual labour were typically* singularly lacking in.
It is investment, productivity and most of all education and technology that was behind the UK's economic rise. Its also what we need a return to and we're struggling now due to a lack of investment in productivity and an overreliance on cheap manual labour instead.
* The Romans being a notable exception who heavily invested as well as having slavery, which is why they came to dominate their era and were so successful for so long.
In 1760 we imported a bit over 2 million pounds of cotton; fifty million by 1800, and over six hundred million by 1850.
Cotton goods were over half out exports by value in the first half of the 19th C, and accounted for around 8% of GDP.
That changed in the second half of the 19th C, but the cotton trade was an enormous part of the rise to economic dominance of the UK, and it's simply bad history to minimise it, whatever your views on our moral status.0 -
I see Joey Barton runs something called the common sense pod. What is it about these right wing nutters that they presume to be the voice of common sense?TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
I think I'm a sensible kind of guy but I don't make a fetish of it.1 -
Its not a left or right issue, its an idiot issue. You get idiots on both sides saying it.FF43 said:
I see Joey Barton runs something called the common sense pod. What is it about these right wing nutters that they presume to be the voice of common sense?TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
I think I'm a sensible kind of guy but I don't make a fetish of it.
People who say they are speaking common sense are no different to the democratic people's republics around the world which are not democratic and not ran either by or for the people either. And often aren't republics either - see the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea.0 -
He only paid £65k to Jamie Tandy, a young player in whose eye he stubbed out a lit cigar.biggles said:
Is £75k enough for an ex-footballer (presumably a man of means) with his profile?TheScreamingEagles said:Joey Barton learns about the find out part of fuck around and find out.
Joey Barton has apologised to Jeremy Vine and agreed to pay him £75,000 in damages and his legal costs over defamation and harassment claims.
A High Court judge ruled last month that comments ex-footballer Mr Barton made about Mr Vine on X were defamatory.
Mr Barton wrote on X on Tuesday: "I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp33exz7xe1o1 -
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/18030260229100260750 -
I should set up the "Doh! Why did I do that" pod.FF43 said:
I see Joey Barton runs something called the common sense pod. What is it about these right wing nutters that they presume to be the voice of common sense?TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
I think I'm a sensible kind of guy but I don't make a fetish of it.0 -
We've already done that.Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Conclusion is he's prepping for a worse-than-WWII class cataclysm.
(For his party, possibly.)0 -
Remember last election was Con 43.6%, Lab 32.2%, LD 11.5%, BRX/RFM 2.0%, GRN 2.7%.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/1803037951271522531
So on UNS that's a swing of 19.2% from Con to Lab & 11.6% Con to LD, (19.05% Con to RFM/BXP). On UNS (Which can't mathematically be correct as negative Tory votes in Liverpool aren't allowed) that takes the Conservatives to 128 seats.0 -
Best for Britain appears to have decided on the basis of who is targeting it. How can they really know, when parties don’t publish their target lists? If it was being targeted, you would surely pick this up locally?Heathener said:
Can I ask you please to be searingly honest? Are you a LibDem voter? Your “nothing […] in any manner” makes me less, not more, likely to believe you. It’s overdone.Pro_Rata said:
There is nothing about Newton Abbot that says Labour to me in any manner for a tactical vote. Lib Dem all the way.Heathener said:
Actually that’s a really good point as well. Some of the undecideds may be Tactical Voters?Foxy said:
I am showing up in the polls (not this one) as undecided, but will definitely vote. I don't think I am the only one on this board.ydoethur said:I would have thought the most likely outcome for a big chunk of that 43% is not voting at all. If they've got so far and are still uncertain...
My Newton Abbot constituency is conflicted!
Best for Britain tell me to vote Labour: https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001381
Tactical.vote tell me to vote LibDem:
https://tactical.vote/newton-abbot/
and
TacticalVote.co.uk haven’t yet made up their mind!
https://tacticalvote.co.uk/#NewtonAbbot
So whereas I thought I might have to vote LibDem, I’m no longer sure!
Tactical.Vote didn’t even think about it, seemingly. They put LibDem from the word go.
Best for Britain took 3 weeks to weigh it up, carefully, and concluded that I should vote Labour.0 -
The only explanation I can see is the "if the voters think you are X, you have to overdo your performance of not-X". (Boring manifesto, exciting cover art and vice versa.)Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Whatever the rights and mostly wrongs of what Sunak said, he is the embodiment of globalisation, for better or worse.0 -
Barton also posted pictures of Jimmy Savile etc. The implication was of full-blown noncery.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/18030260229100260752 -
Disagreed. The plain meaning of nonce is and always has been paedophile.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
Yes he meant it nastier. Nastier because of what nonce means.
Would you be OK with him calling him a bike paedophile?2 -
I'll have to be very careful with my diction next time I shop for a bike speedo.BartholomewRoberts said:
Disagreed. The plain meaning of nonce is and always has been paedophile.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
Yes he meant it nastier. Nastier because of what nonce means.
Would you be OK with him calling him a bike paedophile?3 -
Is that Gozo the long-forgotten son of Gozer the Destructor, or the island in the Med ?Leon said:
I was talking about GozoTheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, which why Robert and I stopped you posting your shite about AI.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
0 -
Agreed. This Independent article makes clear the evidence against Barton: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeremy-vine-joey-barton-libel-high-court-b2550804.htmlBartholomewRoberts said:
Disagreed. The plain meaning of nonce is and always has been paedophile.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
Yes he meant it nastier. Nastier because of what nonce means.
Would you be OK with him calling him a bike paedophile?1 -
It made a big difference that British courts weren't willing to enforce ownership of slaves brought into Britain.Sean_F said:
Even with slavery, though, I think racism developed very differently in individual countries. The UK never had the US South's obsession with the "one drop" rule. French and Spanish planters often intermarried with ex-slaves, and over time, their elites tended to be of mixed race.bondegezou said:
But 148grss said racism “as we know it today”. The form racism takes in modern Western cultures is very tied up with the transatlantic slave trade and empire. That doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist in other places and times — it does/has — but the particular hierarchy and focuses of racism in places like the UK reflects our particular history.JosiasJessop said:
I'd argue it is unreasonable to do so; or, at least, a very partial viewing of history. Racism is not just about white towards black people; or white towards any other skin colour. Racism exists all around the world, and in all sorts of directions. It is also not a uniquely British, or even western, phenomenon.148grss said:
The thing people forget about prejudice and race is that, historically speaking, skin colour / race was not always the category for prejudicial thought. In the classical period, for example, there was no understanding of whiteness as we have it now - the Romans and Greeks felt they had more in common with the Persians and Egyptians than they did with the Gauls and Celts of Western Europe. To say that the Roman Empire was inclusive is to note that anyone regardless of skin colour, religion or origin of birth could be a Roman Citizen and eligible for the rights of that citizenship. Again - race as denoted by skin colour was not really a factor here. The divide was Civilised versus Barbarian. And lots of "white" people were in that Barbarian camp.Casino_Royale said:Unconscious bias training
So, this was billed as an hour-long. Anonymous and to help etc. It had a running % on the taskbar beneath so you could track how far through the course you'd got. Run by Hemisphere.
Much of it initially was just good management stuff. Don't judge people by whether they have a firm handshake or not, or whether they make good eye contact. Don't organise social events that exclusively centre on alcohol etc. Listen carefully to context. Determine what questions are important in an interview or not. So far, so fair.
It then put up a 13 minute video on the history of Britain and black people in Britain. This is where it got really interesting as it was presented as an entirely factual "did you know?" education piece presented by a softly-spoken Scottish lady.
Started off with a big play on Cheddar Man's predicted dark skin colour as the earliest black Briton, where skin colour then became lighter over time due to subsquent migration and the lattitude. Then, it jumped to the Celts and how the Romans displaced the Celts, and how black people formed some of the guards on Hadrians Wall. Suggested the Roman Empire was very inclusive. After that it jumped to the Tudors and how a few black people were in the Royal Navy at the time. Not an issue at all.
It then went on to say "this all changed" with the start of the transatlantic slave trade. And how attitudes to black people then changed to being seen as commodities. It practically suggested racism was invented here. It only very briefly touched on abolition, and didn't mention at all the Royal Navy's role in suppressing the slave trade. It then moved on to how in WWI minorities were never promoted and then into Windrush. After that, it moved onto Stephen Lawrence and the Windrush Scandal. Much to my amazement it finished with a 2-minute clip (verbatim) of David Lammy's speech in the Commons to Amber Rudd on the Windrush Scandal. Pretty much the whole thing. Ends by saying he won the Parliamentarian of the Year award.
Since I couldn't complete the mandatory training without watching this video in full, I was required to do so. The % complete then inexplicably jumped from 28% to 90% (and I couldn't navigate back) the bit being missed supposedly about interview scenarios and dos and donts, which might actually have been half-useful. But I couldn't get back to it. So I finished the course. And then I gave my feedback, which was not at all positive on the "history" video as I felt it was highly partial in both its selection and presentation of facts and how it framed them as truth. The end bit was nakedly party political.
All done now. 2/10. Something about it suggested to me that even my employer thinks it's somehow about going through the motions. But I hope in years to come such training, if it really is needed, becomes depoliticised entirely because taking amateur crowbars to history like this won't stand up to much scrutiny, even in the medium-term, and risks a backlash.
As for the shift to the construction of race and the slave trade; that seems mostly right - if a very broad brush / low level explanation. Again, during the middle ages the distinction of bigotry was more Christendom versus Heathens - which racialised Muslims and Jewish people but accepted converts and black Christians (mostly, obviously not always) - and shifted to skin based system with slavery. The construction of scientific racism also grew with empire - indeed, one of the first races deemed obviously inferior due to their obvious physical traits and natural inclinations were the Irish, arguably the first victims of British colonialism. Then race became much more of a feature as the transatlantic slave trade grew and scientific racism was needed to justify the enslavement of black Africans - especially amongst white liberationists, like Thomas Jefferson, who were great philosophers of freedom who constantly justified his own slave holding with the idea that black Africans were just too dumb to be left to their own devices and try and form a society. This was questioned at the time by many French revolutionaries, even with contemporaries pointing out how his slaves could do complex tasks in his nail manufacturing factories from a young age, so surely they can do skilled and complex labour and can be set free - and Jefferson just shrugging and then arguing about the problems of miscegenation.
I don't think it is unreasonable to suggest, as a quick overview video, that racism as we know it today was likely "invented" during the period of the transatlantic slave trade and empire. Would some people have been prejudice towards people due to skin colour prior to that, sure, but the systemic ideology underlying the stereotypes of race only came about during this period.
E.g. in China:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_China
Or in Japan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Japan
The very notion of “race” is a product of slavery and empire. Lots of ethnic groups discriminate against other ethnic groups, but the construction of specific races (Caucasian etc.), based on particular physical features like skin colour, comes from that time. There is plenty of racism in China and in Japan, but it is often different in form. (That doesn’t make it any better or worse: it’s just different.) If you are going to counter racism in the UK, it helps to understand the details of racism in the UK.1 -
If I say "What a wanker Barty is" do you think I'm talking about your masturbatory habits? The plain meaning of a phrase is more than the plain meaning of its constituent words.BartholomewRoberts said:
Disagreed. The plain meaning of nonce is and always has been paedophile.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
Yes he meant it nastier. Nastier because of what nonce means.
Would you be OK with him calling him a bike paedophile?0 -
You could just as easily argue that if Labour is going to win by miles anyway, what’s the good of adding just another Labour backbencher to the tally? There are plenty of seats that have had Labour MPs for a long time, and not much good it has done them.Anabobazina said:
Ha! I was thinking that. The good doctor Palmer should be a politician with triangulation like that @NickPalmerBenpointer said:
That's a stretch Nick - got to admire the lateral thinking there.NickPalmer said:
A practical consideration, if you accept the overall pollling that suggests that Labour will win, is whether you want a Government or Opposition MP. A case for voting Labour in seats like Didcot and Wantage where there appears to be a 3-way marginal is that it's more useful to have some Labour MPs in Government representing uncharactaristic constituencies than one extra Tory or LibDem in opposition.wooliedyed said:
Indeed. And with Newton Abbott history is your guide anyway, in its former guise in 01 and 05 it was held by LD expenses bad boy Richard Younger-Ross and the new boundaries aren't so out of place. Muscle memory makes LDs the challenger but it's a seat where Labour will be cocky and 'fancy it on the surrrrrrrge' and get in the way so it may well stay blueEl_Capitano said:
I'm not convinced that a lot of "carefully" goes into in most of the tactical voting sites. They mostly appear to look at the MRPs and see which non-Conservative party is in the lead, then just recommend that one.Heathener said:
Can I ask you please to be searingly honest? Are you a LibDem voter? Your “nothing […] in any manner” makes me less, not more, likely to believe you. It’s overdone.Pro_Rata said:
There is nothing about Newton Abbot that says Labour to me in any manner for a tactical vote. Lib Dem all the way.Heathener said:
Actually that’s a really good point as well. Some of the undecideds may be Tactical Voters?Foxy said:
I am showing up in the polls (not this one) as undecided, but will definitely vote. I don't think I am the only one on this board.ydoethur said:I would have thought the most likely outcome for a big chunk of that 43% is not voting at all. If they've got so far and are still uncertain...
My Newton Abbot constituency is conflicted!
Best for Britain tell me to vote Labour: https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001381
Tactical.vote tell me to vote LibDem:
https://tactical.vote/newton-abbot/
and
TacticalVote.co.uk haven’t yet made up their mind!
https://tacticalvote.co.uk/#NewtonAbbot
So whereas I thought I might have to vote LibDem, I’m no longer sure!
Tactical.Vote didn’t even think about it, seemingly. They put LibDem from the word go.
Best for Britain took 3 weeks to weigh it up, carefully, and concluded that I should vote Labour.
As Best for Britain have chosen to embed Survation's data into their site - which is one of the less plausible projections IMO - I wouldn't give them any special credence.0 -
File under it never rains but it pours but through the door has come a leaflet from another Independent candidate, one Sathish Mohan Ramadoss. He too has six pledges - his are:stodge said:Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Our NHS is the pride of our nation. Necessary actions will be taken to reduce appointmenrt waiting time
Improvise safeguarding for all local school children and youth apprentices
Affordable housing is a Right not a Privilege
Tackling crime and anti-social behaviour with more Visible Policing
Enhance Youth Training Centres for Young Skilled Apprentices
Supporting local businesses, Charities & Causes
I don't know which of the two "manifestos" from the local business candidates is the more incoherent.1 -
There's more details here about the allegations. Plenty of other comments that make it clear what he was suggesting.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/joey-barton-jeremy-vine-sues-bike-nonce/2 -
Yes they are.FF43 said:
Labour is going to win the election right? I don't think I can bear another five years of this shower ...Theuniondivvie said:He's just firing out any old shit that comes into his head now.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
Their manifesto is cautious on such things but you can spot the signs when it talks about the WEF and for some reason how a British Bill of rights would have prevented lockdown based on lies.TheScreamingEagles said:Another traitorous Reform candidate that shills for Putin.
Reform is the party of UK hating traitors.
No fucking way the Tory party merges with these roasters.
A candidate for Nigel Farage’s Reform party called the King “weak” and claimed he was under the control of global elites.
Angela Carter-Begbie questioned the King’s loyalty to Britain, saying it was “about time King Charles show where he truly lye” [sic], and said she was “not a fan”.
The candidate, who is standing for Reform in the new seat of Queen’s Park and Maida Vale in northwest London at the general election, wrote on her Twitter/X account on April 23 to say that he was “under the WEF”, referring to the World Economic Forum, which organises the annual meeting in Davos of world political and business leaders.
The conspiracy theory, which aligns itself with claims that a shadowy global elite control the world’s population, is one of several she had promoted online.
These include the conspiracy theories that the 9/11 terrorist attack on the Twin Towers was an “inside job” and the Covid-19 vaccine rollout was “like the Holocaust”.
Carter-Begbie blamed the fathers of grooming-gang victims for the crimes of their predators and repeatedly posted in support of the far-right leader Tommy Robinson.
She also claimed the war in Ukraine was started by Nato.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/reform-uk-angela-carter-begbie-king-charles-220fnsgb9
Given Farage’s opinions on things I don't know why they propose investing in Decence except that it plays well with real Tories not Reform Tories.0 -
I think if you created a "Barty is a wanker" hashtag, using his IRL name, and had your continued taunts of him viewed by several million people, he might take offence, yes.carnforth said:
If I say "What a wanker Barty is" do you think I'm talking about your masturbatory habits? The plain meaning of a phrase is more than the plain meaning of its constituent words.BartholomewRoberts said:
Disagreed. The plain meaning of nonce is and always has been paedophile.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
Yes he meant it nastier. Nastier because of what nonce means.
Would you be OK with him calling him a bike paedophile?0 -
He is appealing to the Tory core vote ie rural areas and farmers in particular and Middle England like me who do support 'Buy British.'BartholomewRoberts said:
He's appealing to the key swing vote demographic represented on this site by HYUFD.Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Everyone else finds it imbecilic.HYUFD said:
Finally some good policy from Rishi. A 'Buy British' policy will shore up the rural vote, the farming vote and even some of the Middle England vote for the Tories.Theuniondivvie said:He's just firing out any old shit that comes into his head now.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
Post Brexit and Putin's invasion of Ukraine we cannot rely on most of our food coming from imports, we need to grow and produce more of our own. I would also hope he increases farm subsidies for food production too
Even if it may be less of an issue for North West libertarians and globetrotting travel writers who have exotic meals of foreign cuisine in a different nation every week!0 -
My picture quota this morning is a short reflection on attitudes to violence against women, and when it is deemed acceptable, unacceptable or something to be - in practice - tolerated. I have no answer. I have been listening to the "womens' debate" on Radio 4.
This is the cycle and outfit worn by
That looks like a "Sally", which is £50k, plus inflation since 2013 (35%), plus a bit extra.TheScreamingEagles said:Joey Barton learns about the find out part of fuck around and find out.
Joey Barton has apologised to Jeremy Vine and agreed to pay him £75,000 in damages and his legal costs over defamation and harassment claims.
A High Court judge ruled last month that comments ex-footballer Mr Barton made about Mr Vine on X were defamatory.
Mr Barton wrote on X on Tuesday: "I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp33exz7xe1o0 -
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."4 -
They wish they'd make that many.Pulpstar said:
Remember last election was Con 43.6%, Lab 32.2%, LD 11.5%, BRX/RFM 2.0%, GRN 2.7%.BatteryCorrectHorse said:Labour lead at 27pts
Westminster voting intention
LAB: 46% (-)
CON: 19% (-2)
REF: 16% (+4)
LDEM: 10% (+1)
GRN: 5% (-)
https://x.com/britainelects/status/1803037951271522531
So on UNS that's a swing of 19.2% from Con to Lab & 11.6% Con to LD, (19.05% Con to RFM/BXP). On UNS (Which can't mathematically be correct as negative Tory votes in Liverpool aren't allowed) that takes the Conservatives to 128 seats.0 -
Go back to your constituencies and prepare to grow peas.Nigelb said:
We've already done that.Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Conclusion is he's prepping for a worse-than-WWII class cataclysm.
(For his party, possibly.)0 -
We have had 6 (!!) leaflets from our local Conservative candidate now. Fancy leaflets, no expense spared. Only he can beat the SNP he says, repeatedly. The SNP have now produced 2 bits of literature. Only they can stop the Tories, they say. None of the other parties have bothered saying anything.stodge said:
File under it never rains but it pours but through the door has come a leaflet from another Independent candidate, one Sathish Mohan Ramadoss. He too has six pledges - his are:stodge said:Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Our NHS is the pride of our nation. Necessary actions will be taken to reduce appointmenrt waiting time
Improvise safeguarding for all local school children and youth apprentices
Affordable housing is a Right not a Privilege
Tackling crime and anti-social behaviour with more Visible Policing
Enhance Youth Training Centres for Young Skilled Apprentices
Supporting local businesses, Charities & Causes
I don't know which of the two "manifestos" from the local business candidates is the more incoherent.
Whether this expenditure will help will be an interesting question.1 -
Probably, but mine only arrived this morning, so give it another 48 hours.Leon said:
Hey PB and @Peter_the_Punter - I've come back from THE WAR and I have no postal vote in my mail. It should have arrived by now, right?Peter_the_Punter said:Just sent in my postal vote.
Like all good PBers, I voted tactically, i.e., in accordance with my betting portfolio.
And good to see you back. I was worrying.1 -
So, they’re both telling the truth? They are each the only one who can stop the other. Admirable honesty.DavidL said:
We have had 6 (!!) leaflets from our local Conservative candidate now. Fancy leaflets, no expense spared. Only he can beat the SNP he says, repeatedly. The SNP have now produced 2 bits of literature. Only they can stop the Tories, they say. None of the other parties have bothered saying anything.stodge said:
File under it never rains but it pours but through the door has come a leaflet from another Independent candidate, one Sathish Mohan Ramadoss. He too has six pledges - his are:stodge said:Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Our NHS is the pride of our nation. Necessary actions will be taken to reduce appointmenrt waiting time
Improvise safeguarding for all local school children and youth apprentices
Affordable housing is a Right not a Privilege
Tackling crime and anti-social behaviour with more Visible Policing
Enhance Youth Training Centres for Young Skilled Apprentices
Supporting local businesses, Charities & Causes
I don't know which of the two "manifestos" from the local business candidates is the more incoherent.
Whether this expenditure will help will be an interesting question.0 -
Yeah, in totality she is right, I think. I take issue with this though, as per my original post.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
"The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”."0 -
Just like Leon.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo4 -
We have had leaflets delivered to Stodge Towers from two of the Independent candidates, the third has leafletted outside East Ham Tube and Sir Stephen Timms was holding court in the High Street yesterday morning.DavidL said:
We have had 6 (!!) leaflets from our local Conservative candidate now. Fancy leaflets, no expense spared. Only he can beat the SNP he says, repeatedly. The SNP have now produced 2 bits of literature. Only they can stop the Tories, they say. None of the other parties have bothered saying anything.stodge said:
File under it never rains but it pours but through the door has come a leaflet from another Independent candidate, one Sathish Mohan Ramadoss. He too has six pledges - his are:stodge said:Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Our NHS is the pride of our nation. Necessary actions will be taken to reduce appointmenrt waiting time
Improvise safeguarding for all local school children and youth apprentices
Affordable housing is a Right not a Privilege
Tackling crime and anti-social behaviour with more Visible Policing
Enhance Youth Training Centres for Young Skilled Apprentices
Supporting local businesses, Charities & Causes
I don't know which of the two "manifestos" from the local business candidates is the more incoherent.
Whether this expenditure will help will be an interesting question.
Nothing from the Conservatives, LDs, Reform and Greens thus far.0 -
"Bike nonce" is a bit of a meme on social media. Male active travel campaigners are called it repeatedly, though it's nothing on what female cyclists have to put up with.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."1 -
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.0 -
Are you sure you didn't muddle the Conservative candidate's leaflet with those from Labour, LD, Green, MRLP etc. etc.? Easily done these days, given the camouflages so universally adopted by the Tories.DavidL said:
We have had 6 (!!) leaflets from our local Conservative candidate now. Fancy leaflets, no expense spared. Only he can beat the SNP he says, repeatedly. The SNP have now produced 2 bits of literature. Only they can stop the Tories, they say. None of the other parties have bothered saying anything.stodge said:
File under it never rains but it pours but through the door has come a leaflet from another Independent candidate, one Sathish Mohan Ramadoss. He too has six pledges - his are:stodge said:Back to the East Ham election front line and I've seen a second leaflet from Sundar Anandkumar to give him his proper title, the Independent candidate.
It consists of six pledges as follows:
Reducing the Cost of Living Crisis
Starting More Skilled Centres for the Youth
Tackling crimes and Anti-Social Behaviour
Recognising Palestine as an Independent State
Bringing Back Grammar Schools
Reduce the waiting time by increasing Doctors and Nurses at Newham Hospital
Not a word on how any of these pledges are to be achieved. Two or three of them are within the Council's purview not the Government and as an Indpendent MP he can recognise whatever he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Our NHS is the pride of our nation. Necessary actions will be taken to reduce appointmenrt waiting time
Improvise safeguarding for all local school children and youth apprentices
Affordable housing is a Right not a Privilege
Tackling crime and anti-social behaviour with more Visible Policing
Enhance Youth Training Centres for Young Skilled Apprentices
Supporting local businesses, Charities & Causes
I don't know which of the two "manifestos" from the local business candidates is the more incoherent.
Whether this expenditure will help will be an interesting question.0 -
Apologies. I have war-lagNigelb said:
We've already done that.Leon said:Who in the name of God's Holy Pizzle is doing Rishi Sunak's TwiX account?
He's just posted this
"We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
What is the fecking point of that? What does it mean? Why say it now? What's the relevance, today? It's like he is someone almost brain dead who is being zapped with 3000 volts so they will just say anything, then relapse into a coma. It's.......... truly weird
I honestly wonder if his social media account is run by a bunch of giggling Labour moles
Conclusion is he's prepping for a worse-than-WWII class cataclysm.
(For his party, possibly.)
And I think I do. It's only when you get out of a warzone that you realise you've been running on adrenaline all the time you were there. You thought you were "getting used to the constant sirens, blackouts, and frequent nightly bombings" but you weren't. You were using all your mental power to minimise them and thereby get some sleep
When you exit, you feel an intense and unexpected wave of relief, and an incoherent tiredness: which is where I am now. And yet a part of me wants to go right back, because it is "exciting"
Yes, I know that sounds callous and voyeuristic, nonetheless it is true2 -
I see Royal Ascot is this week, someone should do a straw poll, if the Tories can't even win with that crowd we know they are facing meltdown!0
-
I think you missed most of it. Barton made the explicit accusation, and compared JV to known paedophiles such as Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris, published at least to 2.8m on Twitter. Plus things like a photograph with 'if you see this guy near a primary school, call 999'.carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
I hope it will be a reminder to social media users who indulge themselves in similar behaviour.
0 -
A winning slogan?
British food for British workers.0 -
A bit like Americans and their fanny packs.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.
I loved The Nanny in the 90s but was always bemused by the title song which says she was out on her fanny.
That would be a whole different type of show if it was said here.1 -
There's also a big difference between saying something to someone and publishing it.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.0 -
Even better 'British food, planted and picked and slaughtered by British workers, served on British tables by British waiters and waitresses cooked by British chefs in traditional British pubs with British Spitfire Ale watching England beat Germany in the Euros final!'Northern_Al said:A winning slogan?
British food for British workers.
(Even Al Murray couldn't beat that)3 -
You will be well disappointed. I woudl like to see ZERO unionist seats in Scotland but will also be disappointed as the morons will vote for the same shit Westminster goons due to stupidityAndy_JS said:
I'd like to see the SNP below 10 seats come the election. But we'll see how it goes.HYUFD said:
Gives Labour 32 Scottish seats, SNP 19, LDs 5 and Tories 1TheScreamingEagles said:Latest Scotland Westminster voting intention (3-7 June)
Lab: 34% (-5 from 13-17 May)
SNP: 30% (+1)
Con: 13% (+1)
Lib Dem: 8% (=)
Reform: 7% (+3)
Green: 6% (-1
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1803008088514953401
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?type=scotland&SCOTCON=13&SCOTLAB=34&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTNAT=30&SCOTReform=7&SCOTGreen=6&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase0 -
I am not allowed to to talk on certain topics, but rest assured If I was allowed, these same debates would take a very different turnIanB2 said:
Just like Leon.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
But I will obey the rules, and stay shtum, but do not read it as acquiescence
Indeed, I would like to make a request of @TheScreamingEagles and @rcs1000 - I have agreed not to talk about this subject, as you asked, and I will stick to that. But could you therefore ask people not to address me by name or tag me into these debates, as it is quite unfair that I am then unable to respond
Thankyou1 -
Similarly: an Australian family member recently expressed horror when senior in-laws told her that the word 'knackered' specifically meant 'exhausted from sexual exertion' and that 'buggered' meant, well, buggered. In Australia both mean tired. She had been cheerfully using both in slightly too formal situations. Although for those of us under 60 'knackered' was a coarse though not vulgar expression without necessarily any sexual connotations.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.2 -
My eldest (6) has just started using 'literally' for emphasis when he means 'figuratively'El_Capitano said:
He has literally™ turned into Liz Truss at her most risible.Theuniondivvie said:He's just firing out any old shit that comes into his head now.
https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1803018993118101771
Truss: "We import two-thirds of our cheese. That is a disgrace."
Sunak: "We shouldn’t be reliant on foreign food. Buy British."
I'm hoping to (non-literally!) shake it out of him by using 'literally' myself in a correct but extremely excessive way.2 -
Nonce is a term used in cryptography, but I'd come across the more insulting meaning much earlier.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.0 -
I know you don't like the unionist parties but I thought you had no love lost for the SNP too nowadays?malcolmg said:
You will be well disappointed. I woudl like to see ZERO unionist seats in Scotland but will also be disappointed as the morons will vote for the same shit Westminster goons due to stupidityAndy_JS said:
I'd like to see the SNP below 10 seats come the election. But we'll see how it goes.HYUFD said:
Gives Labour 32 Scottish seats, SNP 19, LDs 5 and Tories 1TheScreamingEagles said:Latest Scotland Westminster voting intention (3-7 June)
Lab: 34% (-5 from 13-17 May)
SNP: 30% (+1)
Con: 13% (+1)
Lib Dem: 8% (=)
Reform: 7% (+3)
Green: 6% (-1
https://x.com/YouGov/status/1803008088514953401
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?type=scotland&SCOTCON=13&SCOTLAB=34&SCOTLIB=8&SCOTNAT=30&SCOTReform=7&SCOTGreen=6&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
Are you back on board with the SNP under Swinney? Or is Alba more your vibe?0 -
If you had thought about it for even just a moment, you would have realised that my post wasn’t about AI, at all.Leon said:
I am not allowed to to talk on certain topics, but rest assured If I was allowed, these same debates would take a very different turnIanB2 said:
Just like Leon.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
But I will obey the rules, and stay shtum, but do not read it as acquiescence
Indeed, I would like to make a request of @TheScreamingEagles and @rcs1000 - I have agreed not to talk about this subject, as you asked, and I will stick to that. But could you therefore ask people not to address me by name or tag me into these debates, as it is quite unfair that I am then unable to respond
Thankyou0 -
Have you stopped being an 'orrible c*nt to @Big_G_NorthWales?IanB2 said:
Mostly on the days when you’re around.Leon said:On certain topics, PB is quite staggeringly stupid
You really are quite a seriously bitter and unpleasant man. It is no wonder that even your only friend - the dog - is having second thoughts about sharing your pungent bed-1 -
True. Maybe he meant Vine is a binary interface key exchange nonce? Still false, but is it defamatory?LostPassword said:
Nonce is a term used in cryptography, but I'd come across the more insulting meaning much earlier.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.
1 -
Yes. My mother's death was due, in part, to a misreading of a chest X-ray by an inexperienced and desperately overworked radiographer. In areas like this - boring tasks that, nevertheless, require skilled interpretation and in which 100% accuracy is impossible - AI could make a very valuable contribution.FF43 said:
AI is good at doing boring things. There's a ton of useful development happening now of tedious tasks that humans can't do at the same scale because they can't be everywhere at once.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
AI is not on the whole good at doing interesting things. People are interested in interesting things obviously. Hence the AI hype and disconnect.0 -
Then these people should sue the Cumberbatch's, it is nothing to do with me.148grss said:
I mean we can take a single family - the Cumberbatches. The Cumberbatches are independently wealthy, and live very nice lives as actors, having benefited from private schooling and good education and wealthy living in the UK. The Cumberbatch family also made a lot of its wealth due to a family member owning slaves who did labour for him and he made profit. You can see the direct line of wealth and comfort and privilege through the lineage of one family. Indeed, Benedict's mother even told him not to do slave films because the issue of the family money and reparations will come up (instead Benedict felt the need to be in multiple films that dealt with slavery).malcolmg said:
It is mainly bollox unless very recent, ie any living person. Where do you stop at the stone age, there are no slaves still alive. Why the F**k should anyone have to pay because some knobhead did something 200 years ago. There is no correlation that those countries woudl ever have done anything to have any wealth, ie money has been poured into Africa by the billions for the whole of my life and has all been squandered and they live mainly in poverty still. Bleeding hearts like you would give all our money away so that we are all inpoverty , mental. You cannot change teh past and the whingers and snowflakes need to waken up smell teh coffee and get on with making their own way in life rather than trying to blame something from 200 years ago for their fecklessness and woes.148grss said:
Would you say the same about Jewish people having art or other valuables returned to them from the German or Austrian states, or private individuals, that were lost due to the Holocaust? It's the same principle, just on a longer scale. There are clearly individuals and entire countries that have the wealth they have now due to a foundation that was built (even if only partly) on the unpaid labour of slaves. The descendants of those slaves do not have the benefit of that wealth; the descendants of those individuals and the citizens of those countries do. You can say that it is too long ago to matter now - and people like to hand wave the Roman Empire or the Vikings doing the same in history - but the thing is that slavery (and colonialization) is clearly still materially impacting those descended from those it affected even now. Hell, the island of Ireland only recently got over the population loss (via death and migration) of the Great Hunger!malcolmg said:
These absolute moronic halfwits that bring up these mentally deranged ideas on reparations for things that happened in the distant past should be put in public stocks and pelted with rotten vegetables for a very long time and then tarred and teathered and run out of town.Taz said:
Not only that but we have to pay reparations to their descendants. A few in labour activeCasino_Royale said:
It was the industrial revolution which was a function of energy, technology, trade and labour.Tweedledee said:
Well, it was (your last paragraph) because it was the foundation of foreign trade. You go from exporting a bit of wool to slaves themselves and sugar and rum and coffee and cotton and made cotton goods and stuff all in one go. The National Trust gets a lot of stick but I bet 9 houses out of 10 they control has a splendid new West Wing dating from spookily close to the date of abolition and reparations.Casino_Royale said:.
*I should also add it strongly suggested that all of Britain's wealth was founded on the slave trade, framing the reparations argument.Casino_Royale said:Unconscious bias training
So, this was billed as an hour-long. Anonymous and to help etc. It had a running % on the taskbar beneath so you could track how far through the course you'd got. Run by Hemisphere.
Much of it initially was just good management stuff. Don't judge people by whether they have a firm handshake or not, or whether they make good eye contact. Don't organise social events that exclusively centre on alcohol etc. Listen carefully to context. Determine what questions are important in an interview or not. So far, so fair.
It then put up a 13 minute video on the history of Britain and black people in Britain. This is where it got really interesting as it was presented as an entirely factual "did you know?" education piece presented by a softly-spoken Scottish lady.
Started off with a big play on Cheddar Man's predicted dark skin colour as the earliest black Briton, where skin colour then became lighter over time due to subsquent migration and the lattitude. Then, it jumped to the Celts and how the Romans displaced the Celts, and how black people formed some of the guards on Hadrians Wall. Suggested the Roman Empire was very inclusive. After that it jumped to the Tudors and how a few black people were in the Royal Navy at the time. Not an issue at all.
It then went on to say "this all changed" with the start of the transatlantic slave trade. And how attitudes to black people then changed to being seen as commodities. It practically suggested racism was invented here. It only very briefly touched on abolition, and didn't mention at all the Royal Navy's role in suppressing the slave trade. It then moved on to how in WWI minorities were never promoted and then into Windrush. After that, it moved onto Stephen Lawrence and the Windrush Scandal. Much to my amazement it finished with a 2-minute clip (verbatim) of David Lammy's speech in the Commons to Amber Rudd on the Windrush Scandal. Pretty much the whole thing. Ends by saying he won the Parliamentarian of the Year award.
Since I couldn't complete the mandatory training without watching this video in full, I was required to do so. The % complete then inexplicably jumped from 28% to 90% (and I couldn't navigate back) the bit being missed supposedly about interview scenarios and dos and donts, which might actually have been half-useful. But I couldn't get back to it. So I finished the course. And then I gave my feedback, which was not at all positive on the "history" video as I felt it was highly partial in both its selection and presentation of facts and how it framed them as truth. The end bit was nakedly party political.
All done now. 2/10. Something about it suggested to me that even my employer thinks it's somehow about going through the motions. But I hope in years to come such training, if it really is needed, becomes depoliticised entirely because taking amateur crowbars to history like this won't stand up to much scrutiny, even in the medium-term, and risks a backlash.
What really backfires is all the millions of Britons who worked very long and unsafe hours in the dark satanic mills - who made that happen by actually manufacturing all the products - being told today they had white privilege.
support this.
My family in the dim and distant past would have worked in these factories and although not slaves would have been exploited and led miserable,lives.
The thing is, there is another Cumberbatch family who can trace their lineage back to the same ancestor - because they were given that surname when that man bought them. They can look back to the point where the labour their ancestors did labour, for the profit of the Cumberbatch family, against their will. And they can trace how emancipation was followed by further oppression and how they could not escape a generational cycle of poverty due to racism and the fact that emancipation didn't come with an acre and a mule, or any reparations to speak of.
So yeah, actually, we can show direct impact on literal individuals and families when it comes to slavery. And if you scale that up to the macro you get the impact on countries. It's not hard.1 -
I always thought it came from being completely worn out, like a horse ready for the knacker's yard.Cookie said:
Similarly: an Australian family member recently expressed horror when senior in-laws told her that the word 'knackered' specifically meant 'exhausted from sexual exertion' and that 'buggered' meant, well, buggered. In Australia both mean tired. She had been cheerfully using both in slightly too formal situations. Although for those of us under 60 'knackered' was a coarse though not vulgar expression without necessarily any sexual connotations.Selebian said:
The context is clear, I agree.DougSeal said:
He didn't just say that. He followed it up with other imputations of "defending" paedophiles which, in context, makes the first words defamatory. He made some shit up about Vine and vaccines too. Here's the judgment -carnforth said:
Barton is awful, but the judge was a bit off on this. Calling someone a "bike nonce" is just a nastier way of saying "bike wanker". You could argue that nonce is such a bad allegation that it doesn't matter, but the "plain meaning" of "Piss off Jeremy, you bike nonce.", for example. is not "Jeremy Vine is a pedophile.". Which, IIRC is what the judge found.TheScreamingEagles said:“Between 8 and 12 January 2024 I published 11 posts which accused Jeremy Vine of having a sexual interest in children, and created a hashtag which made the same allegations, which were viewed millions of times.
I recognise that this is a very serious allegation. It is untrue. I do not believe that Mr Vine has a sexual interest in children, and I wish to set the record straight. I also published posts during the same period in which I referred to Mr Vine having advocated forced vaccination during the Covid 19 pandemic, based upon a video clip of his TV programme.
I accept that he did not advocate this policy and that the video clip has been edited to give a misleading impression of what he was in fact saying.
I then taunted and abused Mr Vine for bringing a legal complaint against me. I have agreed not to make the same allegations again about Mr Vine and I apologise to him for the distress he has suffered. To resolve his claims against me in defamation and harassment, I have agreed to pay Mr Vine £75,000 in damages and his legal costs.”
https://x.com/Joey7Barton/status/1803026022910026075
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Vine-v-Barton-Judgment-amended-050624.pdf
Key paras, especially para 45 which puts it in context, which cannot be faulted IMHO, are -
"43. The word “nonce” is a slang term in common use, currently. Its meaning may depend on the context in which it is used, but for persons of ordinary knowledge it is known and understood, primarily, to be synonymous with the word “paedophile”, and to indicate that the person who is labelled a “nonce” has a sexual interest in children.
44. The strong impression gained by the assertion the Claimant is known as (“aka”) “Bike Nonce”, followed immediately by the further assertion that he is known as (again, “Aka”) “Pedo defender”, is that the term “nonce” was being used in its primary meaning to allege the Claimant has a sexual interest in children. While I do not consider that the hypothetical reader, who would read the post quickly and move on, would infer a causative link (i.e. that the Claimant defends paedophiles because he shares the same propensity), the juxtaposition of the words “Nonce” and “Pedo” is striking and would reinforce the impression that the former was used in the sense of “paedophile”. The reader would have understood that the word “Bike” was a meaningless aspect of the accusation, serving only as an indication that this was a label attached to the Claimant, who was known as a cyclist, without detracting from the operative word “nonce”.
45. I also agree with the Claimant that the reader would draw the meaning that the Claimant has a tendency or propensity to defend paedophiles. This is the impression gained from the assertion he is known as (“Aka”) a “Pedo defender”, and from the word “defender” which suggests this is something he actively engages in on an on-going basis. While the hypothetical reader would have drawn a connection between this allegation and the
Claimant’s reference in the video clip to the Defendant’s “attack on Philip Schofield”, it would not have diluted the meaning gained from reading the post. First, there is nothing within the post that would give the reader the impression that this accusation was restricted to what the Claimant had said about Mr Schofield. Secondly, those he is said to have defended are clearly accused of being paedophiles. I agree with the Claimant that there is nothing capable of reducing the meaning to the level of suspicion."
On 'nonce' it's worth noting however that among younger people, it's a synonym for idiot. A PhD student in our group got some odd looks one lunchtime when we were discussing some analysis and realising her mistake she said "I'm such a nonce!". After those of us aged about 30-35 or above said "I don't think that term means what you think it means" she explained that it means idiot and produced some examples on the web. We countered with the (likely apocryphal) "not on normal courtyard exercises" derivation and she was a bit shocked.
But here, as you say, the context and other uses clarify the meaning.
There are coarser expressions: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fucked out0 -
What's the reason why you can't talk about AI?Leon said:
I am not allowed to to talk on certain topics, but rest assured If I was allowed, these same debates would take a very different turnIanB2 said:
Just like Leon.eek said:
This is why I find Leon’s paranoia about AI so pointless, the current version of AI is in many sectors a complete dead-end because until it knows when it is hallucinating it can’t be trustedTheScreamingEagles said:In AI is talking all our jobs news.
McDonald's is removing artificial intelligence (AI) powered ordering technology from its drive-through restaurants in the US, after customers shared its comical mishaps online.
A trial of the system - which uses voice recognition software to process orders - was announced in 2019.
It has not proved entirely reliable however - resulting in viral videos of bizarre misinterpreted orders. ranging from bacon-topped ice cream to hundreds of dollars worth of chicken nuggets.
McDonald's told franchisees it would remove the tech from the more than 100 restaurants it’s been testing it in by the end of July, according to a trade publication, external.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722gne7qngo
But I will obey the rules, and stay shtum, but do not read it as acquiescence
Indeed, I would like to make a request of @TheScreamingEagles and @rcs1000 - I have agreed not to talk about this subject, as you asked, and I will stick to that. But could you therefore ask people not to address me by name or tag me into these debates, as it is quite unfair that I am then unable to respond
Thankyou0
