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Lib Dems! Winning here? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 340
    edited June 13
    Cicero said:

    Just to back up the move in the polls with a bit of anecdotal evidence.

    In a Scottish seat previously held by the Lib Dems, but where they were squeezed to third in 2017/19. Now nominally marginal between SNP and Tory. Canvassing last night, previously majority Con area, now strongly Lib Dem, Tory vote collapsed.

    Having fought in the area in 2019 it is pretty obvious that there has been a giant swing. Something big is coming.

    I’ve been wondering about just betting Lib Dem in basically every Scotland seat individually and seeing if it profits…
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,335
    edited June 13

    kyf_100 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Fishing said:

    The real news from the Labour Party manifesto launch is buried away on page 103.

    Labour is committed to reducing gambling-related harm. Recognising the evolution of the gambling landscape since 2005, Labour will reform gambling regulation, strengthening protections. We will continue to work with the industry on how to ensure responsible gambling.
    https://labour.org.uk/change/build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

    Would be better to tax winnings, with the proceeds to reduce NI or corporation tax. It is ridiculous that income from working hard is taxed very heavily while games of chance aren't. In the US, where I am at the moment, gambling winnings are taxed as normal income.
    If you were to tax winnings as income then surely losses should be allowed to be offset?
    The taxman regularly doesn't allow offsets.

    If you hire me to do a job and pay me a salary I pay tax on that.

    If I then privately hire someone else to do a job for me and pay them for that, then they owe tax on what I paid them - but I can't offset that against my own taxes.
    Yes they do.
    What do you mean?

    If I'm paid a salary via PAYE by my employer, then I hire an electrician or plumber or anyone else to do a job for me . . . then I can't offset my PAYE by the electricians taxes.
    I know people who have set up ltd companies to manage their own weddings to ensure things are tax deductible...
    Indeed, that's precisely my point.

    HMRC gives different rules to Ltd companies and individuals.

    Firms are often allowed to offset things that individuals are not. So the concept of HMRC refusing to allow an offset to individuals is not a unique one.
    In which case the Kyf_100 Gambling Corporation Ltd will do a roaring trade in its first year...

    Edit: I should add, not too dissimilar to the behaviour of landlords who have set up ltd companies in the wake of Osborne's stupid decision to stop making mortgage interest payments tax deductible.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,633
    pigeon said:

    The real news from the Labour Party manifesto launch is buried away on page 103.

    Labour is committed to reducing gambling-related harm. Recognising the evolution of the gambling landscape since 2005, Labour will reform gambling regulation, strengthening protections. We will continue to work with the industry on how to ensure responsible gambling.
    https://labour.org.uk/change/build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

    There's nothing in the public health section that requires significant deployment of new money (it's mostly about regulation and commitments to prioritise some issues over others, without any details.) One obvious way to tackle obesity would be to deal with the mass closure of swimming pools and other leisure facilities by cash strapped councils, but that would require more money and if there's any mention of that I've obviously missed it.

    The language does imply that Sunak's smoking phase out is coming back somewhere in the legislative pipeline, but the consequences of having, years in the future, 31 year olds able to buy cigarettes but 30 year olds not still haven't been thought through. Perhaps this will end with the fines for such illegal tobacco sales being made so stiff that retailers decide it is not worth the risk of selling them to anyone? I don't know - it seems to me a more effective way of stamping out the habit would be to outlaw it totally, but I suppose that Labour doesn't want to create another class C drug for policing to have to cope with...

    "...That starts with smoking. Labour will ensure the next generation can never legally buy cigarettes and ensure all hospitals integrate ‘optout’ smoking cessation interventions into routine care. Labour will ban vapes from being branded and advertised to appeal to children to stop the next generation from becoming hooked on nicotine...."

    Page 102 - "Change" Labour Party Manifesto 2024, pdf copy, released 13 Jun 2024

    "...Modern British politics consists in not building anything, banning stuff, telling people off, and calling anyone you disagree with evil/a racist/unworthy of holding an opinion..."

    Aaron Bastani, Twitter, 12 Jun 2023
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584
    edited June 13
    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,372
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Fishing said:

    The real news from the Labour Party manifesto launch is buried away on page 103.

    Labour is committed to reducing gambling-related harm. Recognising the evolution of the gambling landscape since 2005, Labour will reform gambling regulation, strengthening protections. We will continue to work with the industry on how to ensure responsible gambling.
    https://labour.org.uk/change/build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

    Would be better to tax winnings, with the proceeds to reduce NI or corporation tax. It is ridiculous that income from working hard is taxed very heavily while games of chance aren't. In the US, where I am at the moment, gambling winnings are taxed as normal income.
    If you were to tax winnings as income then surely losses should be allowed to be offset?
    The taxman regularly doesn't allow offsets.

    If you hire me to do a job and pay me a salary I pay tax on that.

    If I then privately hire someone else to do a job for me and pay them for that, then they owe tax on what I paid them - but I can't offset that against my own taxes.
    Yes they do.
    What do you mean?

    If I'm paid a salary via PAYE by my employer, then I hire an electrician or plumber or anyone else to do a job for me . . . then I can't offset my PAYE by the electricians taxes.
    I know people who have set up ltd companies to manage their own weddings to ensure things are tax deductible...
    Indeed, that's precisely my point.

    HMRC gives different rules to Ltd companies and individuals.

    Firms are often allowed to offset things that individuals are not. So the concept of HMRC refusing to allow an offset to individuals is not a unique one.
    In which case the Kyf_100 Gambling Corporation Ltd will do a roaring trade in its first year...
    Bingo! That'd be a very fitting way for HMRC to expect you to act, if this was ever introduced in this country.
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,191

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
    It’s the only way they will learn.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,705
    edited June 13
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,149
    I'm just so glad Rishi called an early election to wrongfoot Reform.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,364

    I'm just so glad Rishi called an early election to wrongfoot Reform.

    I’m convinced his aim is to sabotage the Conservative Party.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,372
    It goes against my libertarian principles, but I'd be happy to see vape advertising banned and selling vapes treated on the same footing as selling tobacco.

    Not criminalised and none of this nonsense of telling adults they can't buy products, I don't believe in prohibition, but a ban on marketing them I'd be OK with.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
    It’s the only way they will learn.
    Sgt. Shaftoe - “Haven’t you guys figured out yet that banzai charges DON’T FUCKING WORK?”

    “All of the people who learned that were killed in banzai charges,” Goto Dengo says.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,335
    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,449
    Foxy said:

    Reform UK's Lee Anderson caught parking his car in disabled space
    The ex-Tory, now standing for Nigel Farage's party, was snapped getting into his silver BMW X5, which had been parked in a disabled space in a car park in Sutton-in-Ashfield

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/reform-uks-lee-anderson-caught-33025627

    He might have a hidden disability, such as being a dickhead.
    Nothing hidden about it.
  • Options
    bobbobbobbob Posts: 35
    edited June 13

    It goes against my libertarian principles, but I'd be happy to see vape advertising banned and selling vapes treated on the same footing as selling tobacco.

    Not criminalised and none of this nonsense of telling adults they can't buy products, I don't believe in prohibition, but a ban on marketing them I'd be OK with.

    Why? Vaping is harmless if they want to do somethig useful they should ban alcohol ads ! Typical woke bs !!
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,554
    edited June 13

    Cicero said:

    Just to back up the move in the polls with a bit of anecdotal evidence.

    In a Scottish seat previously held by the Lib Dems, but where they were squeezed to third in 2017/19. Now nominally marginal between SNP and Tory. Canvassing last night, previously majority Con area, now strongly Lib Dem, Tory vote collapsed.

    Having fought in the area in 2019 it is pretty obvious that there has been a giant swing. Something big is coming.

    I’ve been wondering about just betting Lib Dem in basically every Scotland seat individually and seeing if it profits…
    Except Scotland votes quite differently based on region. Lib Dems stronger in Edinburgh, Highlands, North East and the Borders (+ Mid Dumbarton). However, they are basically nowhere in Glasgow, the South West and most of the rest of the Central belt.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584
    Foxy said:

    Reform UK's Lee Anderson caught parking his car in disabled space
    The ex-Tory, now standing for Nigel Farage's party, was snapped getting into his silver BMW X5, which had been parked in a disabled space in a car park in Sutton-in-Ashfield

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/reform-uks-lee-anderson-caught-33025627

    He might have a hidden disability, such as being a dickhead.
    “hidden”

    You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,165
    Heathener said:

    "One of the best polling analysts on Twitter is the Beyond_Topline account and one theory they think is that the falling Labour share and Lib Dem increase is due to tactical voting coming to the fore which is not a problem for Labour and very bad for the Tories.”

    It’s all too easy for me to latch onto this but I do think there’s something in it.

    I’m a case in point. Although I really want to vote Labour in Newton Abbot, I know that my best chance of defeating the sitting MP Anne Morris is to vote LibDem, so that’s what I’m doing.

    My No 1. priority is to give the tories as a big a kicking as I possibly can. The rest is secondary.

    It's very noticeable that the ~2pt average shift away from Labour happened at about the same time that many of the pollsters switched to using constituency-specific prompts.

    However, I would naively have expected that to help Labour at the expense of the Lib Dems (since Labour are the clear kick-the-Tory choice in many more constituencies than LDs are). It perhaps suggests that the Labour vote was already pretty efficient, but has now become even more so...

    ...on the other hand, it could also be an unexpected result of the Faragasm, or could even just be random noise!

    As ever, we need more data...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584
    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area?
    Possession of an offensive wife?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,327

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,191

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area?
    Possession of an offensive wife?
    He’s a jailbird sir.
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 396
    Putting the latest R&W into electoral calculus gives

    Labour: 506
    Libdems: 65
    Cons: 36
    Reform: 3

    That is nuts.

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.
  • Options
    PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 340
    Muesli said:

    We have had a few years now of by-elections where the improved efficiency of tactical voting has been remarked upon and yet some people expect it to be less so for this election, surprisingly.

    The Lib Dem position as a soft Anti Labour vote AND an Anti Tory vote AND a ‘Protest, but not Farage’ vote is uniquely placed to do very well.


    I have a bit of sympathy for what Leon and others said earlier - about going more vocal with the single market / Pro-EU stance to try eat into Labour more -but I think doing so would cause a net loss of seats - it might play well in the Wimbledon type areas but it would get many Tories to go elsewhere.

    Let us not forget the much more realistic aim of the Lib Dems is to come 2nd this time round. If they do that then they could be in a position to be in Government in 2029. No point throwing that chance away by emboldening the Tory vote across the country at a time when it is at its weakest.

    The correct move instead is to soft signal it now, as they are doing, and pivot to Rejoin (or softer Rejoin) for 2029. If you’re the opposition you can hammer Labour on it in a few years’ time, and potentially even get some defections from more discontented Labour MPs, backed up by a younger population that will probably have more of an appetite for it.

    Unfortunately, the Liberal Democrats have a tendency to overperform in by-elections and underperform in the generals. With apologies to Kevin Keegan, I'll tell you, honestly, I will love it if the LDs beat the Tories, love it! But the form book suggests it's highly unlikely to happen. (There's a noticeable lack of talk from the LD leadership about going for second too... but that's probably the legacy of Jo Swinson's hubris in 2019.)
    That’s fair but they’ve never had a Tory party this weak to go up against, which might tip the scales enough…

  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,151
    Based on those ratings If Con had decided it was Time4Penny it's possible this election might have been competitive...
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584
    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area?
    Possession of an offensive wife?
    He’s a jailbird sir.
    Stepping on the cracks in the pavement….
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,082
    edited June 13

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
    Surely you are selling the franchise to run the anti-social cars over with a Challenger?

    Or perhaps set up a local lottery?

    6 numbers and you can run over as many Audis and BMWs as you like for a day.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 16,465
    The improvement in Keir Starmer's ratings is definitely a trend. I think he will briefly hit positive numbers after the election during the summer. I suspect this is mostly on the basis that people are convincing themselves to think better of doing something that they know they have to do anyway, rather than any great wave of enthusiasm, but it does suggest that the decline in Labour poll ratings isn't the start of a Labour disintegration.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,604
    GIN1138 said:

    Based on those ratings If Con had decided it was Time4Penny it's possible this election might have been competitive...

    PM4PM
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,511
    GIN1138 said:

    Based on those ratings If Con had decided it was Time4Penny it's possible this election might have been competitive...

    Pretty sure she would have done better.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,285
    Heathener said:

    "One of the best polling analysts on Twitter is the Beyond_Topline account and one theory they think is that the falling Labour share and Lib Dem increase is due to tactical voting coming to the fore which is not a problem for Labour and very bad for the Tories.”

    It’s all too easy for me to latch onto this but I do think there’s something in it.

    I’m a case in point. Although I really want to vote Labour in Newton Abbot, I know that my best chance of defeating the sitting MP Anne Morris is to vote LibDem, so that’s what I’m doing.

    My No 1. priority is to give the tories as a big a kicking as I possibly can. The rest is secondary.

    You should arrange a vote swap with @Foxy, you vote Liberal for him, he votes Labour for you. Job done.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,467

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Almost every pollster has Labour support dropping. The question is will it continue,
  • Options
    RattersRatters Posts: 896
    edited June 13
    One fascinating part of this election is no one has a clue as to where they should be campaigning. Where are the marginal seats where leaflets are needed to be delivered en masse? For Labour and the Tories, in particular, they have no real clue. Labour will focus on a decent majority, the Tories I don't know what they'll do. Whatever they decide is likely to not be where the marginal are ok the night.

    The Lib Dems will probably do well in winning their 50 or so target seats given they know where to focus and know how to campaign in focussed elections (as per by elections).
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,448

    Here's another one:

    New poll

    @BMGResearch for @theipaper

    Labour 41%
    Conservatives 21%
    Reform 14%
    Lib Dems 12%
    Greens 6%

    Little movement in last week - Tories need something to turn up...


    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1801296925775233292

    Lab -1, Con -2, Ref -2, LD+3

    The polls are beginning to herd.

    And so the election is beginning to look a bit more snoozey again.
    Don’t tell Leon

    Edit. Oh, he’s given up on that and now trolling us (again) about aliens
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,028

    kle4 said:

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Every day that passes extinction becomes more probable for the Tories. Another week of this and sub 100 will be the standard expectation.
    The idea of Harry Worth doing PMQs is growing on me.
    Will SED abseil in from the gallery to deliver his zingers to PM Starmer?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
    Surely you are selling the franchise to run the anti-social cars over with a Challenger?

    Or perhaps set up a local lottery?

    6 numbers and you can run over as many Audis and BMWs as you like for a day.
    Good thinking

    Plus making Rights Of Way disability friendly.

    Each year, at or around the Summer Solstice, we shall have the Beating Of The Rights Of Way.

    In this ceremony, a Churchill Crocodile with a dozer blade added shall proceed along the Right of Way in question from end to end.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,380
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    What's new? The moon landings were watched by half the world yet millions of people think they were faked.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,014
    LibDems - Spinning here!
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,905
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Catching up on Sir Keir's speech this morning.

    I still think he needs Sleeve Garters like Morpheus to contain those voluminous shirts. Where he's going he's going to need the superhero skills too, maybe.

    Edit timed out. I'm sure it's superb quality, but that shirt is billowing like a tent borrowed from Lawrence of Arabia.

    My pic for the day, Sir Keir:

    I'm no fan of SKS, but I've no objection to his shirt wearing. I actually think he wears a shirt better than Rishi. I've no time for those tight tailored shirts Rishi wears. They look daft, and expensively daft. I had one once - it was a freebie with a suit - and I hated it. Felt far too tight. And if a tight shirt on a man Rishi's size looks daft, a tight shirt on a man my size looks unpleasant.
    Further objections to shirts in general: I find it very hard to get shirts to fit. Collar size is easy, if you buy shirts in collar size - though I have a very big neck. But shirts are always too short on me - I have a long body and short legs and wide shoulders, like a Mr. Man - and most of them come untucked if I lift my arms above shoulder height.

    Don't say we don't discuss the big issues on pb.com.
    You also have big thighs, I believe?
    FPT:
    I do, and I'm mildly disturbed that my musings on my mismatched body parts are memorable enough that you can recall them. Big thighs and massive calves. But short legs and a long body. Large head and a large neck, but short arms. Like, I don't know, a T-Rex or something.
    I mean, you wouldn't look at me and your eyes instantly water with the oddness of me, but finding clothes to fit is not straightforward. I have large body parts but not a large body, if that makes sense.
    "..But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks,
    Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass;
    I, that am rudely stamp'd, and want love's majesty
    To strut before a wanton ambling nymph;
    I, that am curtail'd of this fair proportion,
    Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
    Deformed, unfinish'd, sent before my time
    Into this breathing world, scarce half made up,
    And that so lamely and unfashionable
    That dogs bark at me as I halt by them;
    Why, I, in this weak piping time of peace,
    Have no delight to pass away the time,
    Unless to spy my shadow in the sun
    And descant on mine own deformity:.."
    Damned Tudor lies, every word.
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    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,036
    Fishing said:

    The real news from the Labour Party manifesto launch is buried away on page 103.

    Labour is committed to reducing gambling-related harm. Recognising the evolution of the gambling landscape since 2005, Labour will reform gambling regulation, strengthening protections. We will continue to work with the industry on how to ensure responsible gambling.
    https://labour.org.uk/change/build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

    Would be better to tax winnings, with the proceeds to reduce NI or corporation tax. It is ridiculous that income from working hard is taxed very heavily while games of chance aren't. In the US, where I am at the moment, gambling winnings are taxed as normal income.
    Does that mean my losing bets would be tax-deductible?
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    Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,322
    Tend to agree Labour won't be unduly happy to lose a point or two to the Lib Dems if the Tories remain becalmed - chances are it'll bring more southern Tory seats into play where Labour wouldn't have a hope.

    And even if Lab lost/failed to gain a red wall seat or two as Reform pushed through, that would potentially have more negative connotations for Con than Lab.

    Struggling to see what Sunak's late-campaign rabbit from the hat could be (and whether he could avoid shooting it on prime-time telly if there was)
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,380

    Putting the latest R&W into electoral calculus gives

    Labour: 506
    Libdems: 65
    Cons: 36
    Reform: 3

    That is nuts.

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    We're British. There will be some calls to phone-in shows and Nige and the LibDems will say we need PR, but then they say that already.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,115

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    How long have you lived in the UK?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,014

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Broken, sleazy Tories and Labour on the slide!
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    RattersRatters Posts: 896
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Almost every pollster has Labour support dropping. The question is will it continue,
    They do, but it doesn't matter because the Tories are not gaining. In fact, they have been drifting lower too. Until that changes, Labour have nothing to worry about.

    And there's not long left before postal votes commence.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,028

    Putting the latest R&W into electoral calculus gives

    Labour: 506
    Libdems: 65
    Cons: 36
    Reform: 3

    That is nuts.

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    Predicting the future is hard but I can confidently state that the OAPs who make up most of the 15% Reform voters are not going to be storming the Houses of Parliament. Boycotting their bus passes is probably as far as the insurrection will go.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,364

    Tend to agree Labour won't be unduly happy to lose a point or two to the Lib Dems if the Tories remain becalmed - chances are it'll bring more southern Tory seats into play where Labour wouldn't have a hope.

    And even if Lab lost/failed to gain a red wall seat or two as Reform pushed through, that would potentially have more negative connotations for Con than Lab.

    Struggling to see what Sunak's late-campaign rabbit from the hat could be (and whether he could avoid shooting it on prime-time telly if there was)

    In the end, I suppose the badness of the Conservatives’ result depends upon how real is Reform’s support, as stated in polling.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,705
    edited June 13
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    I must admit, something like this has occurred to me over the last few years.

    Even if aliens landed on the White House lawn, about half the people in the world would dismiss it as a plot by the WEF, on current trends.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,673
    AlsoLei said:

    Heathener said:

    "One of the best polling analysts on Twitter is the Beyond_Topline account and one theory they think is that the falling Labour share and Lib Dem increase is due to tactical voting coming to the fore which is not a problem for Labour and very bad for the Tories.”

    It’s all too easy for me to latch onto this but I do think there’s something in it.

    I’m a case in point. Although I really want to vote Labour in Newton Abbot, I know that my best chance of defeating the sitting MP Anne Morris is to vote LibDem, so that’s what I’m doing.

    My No 1. priority is to give the tories as a big a kicking as I possibly can. The rest is secondary.

    It's very noticeable that the ~2pt average shift away from Labour happened at about the same time that many of the pollsters switched to using constituency-specific prompts.

    However, I would naively have expected that to help Labour at the expense of the Lib Dems (since Labour are the clear kick-the-Tory choice in many more constituencies than LDs are). It perhaps suggests that the Labour vote was already pretty efficient, but has now become even more so...

    ...on the other hand, it could also be an unexpected result of the Faragasm, or could even just be random noise!

    As ever, we need more data...
    Or it could be reminding Labour supporters which constituency they're in and that they are voting tactically. It is one thing to ask 'how would you vote in a general election?' and 'how would you vote in this specific set of local circumstances?'
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 49,327

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    What's new? The moon landings were watched by half the world yet millions of people think they were faked.
    What’s new is that they now have plausible reasons for saying any video is fake, because the technology now exists to do this, and it did not exist before, certainly not in 1969
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 6,448

    Heathener said:

    "One of the best polling analysts on Twitter is the Beyond_Topline account and one theory they think is that the falling Labour share and Lib Dem increase is due to tactical voting coming to the fore which is not a problem for Labour and very bad for the Tories.”

    It’s all too easy for me to latch onto this but I do think there’s something in it.

    I’m a case in point. Although I really want to vote Labour in Newton Abbot, I know that my best chance of defeating the sitting MP Anne Morris is to vote LibDem, so that’s what I’m doing.

    My No 1. priority is to give the tories as a big a kicking as I possibly can. The rest is secondary.

    You should arrange a vote swap with @Foxy, you vote Liberal for him, he votes Labour for you. Job done.
    Labour seem to be putting all the effort into unseating Johnny Mercer in Plymouth Moor View, leaving the LibDems to try and oust Anne Morris in Newton Abbot.

    Pretty sure Mercer is going to lose.

    Anne Morris? Not so sure but the LibDems have a chance.
  • Options
    For all his faults, this election is a complete step up from 2019 which was a joke.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,028

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Have we all been looking in the wrong place for crossover? The LDs seem to be galloping up through the middle.
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,165
    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Conclusion
    Dense text, could have used some bullet pointing of key pledges more often. Hard to get into what is proposed sometimes. Lots of ‘will reform’ with no more detail, and lots of unnecessary fluff.

    I don’t fully believe some of the stuff around housing in it, but it is more realistic and positive about it than any manifesto so far, which is good. Very little on climate, which surprised me. Punchy on foreign policy and policing.

    Most of it was far too long, with a lot of caveated phrasing.

    Call it a C-. Functional, but I didn’t feel like I learned much from it.

    On a minor point, honestly the SDP’s rather loony manifesto was the best in relation to clear headings. Everyone else has weird, tortured chapter headings instead of just ‘Energy’ ‘Local Government’ ‘Industry’ etc.

    The caveats are what struck me the most from flicking through it it. The general pattern seems to be to identify an issue, propose taking half a step towards fixing it, then hesitate and mutter "or, er, maybe not".

    I guess it at least does give us an indication of their preferred direction of travel, but it seems that they're mostly asking us to sit tight and wait for the economy to grow a bit before any structural issues can be fixed.

    But you don't need to be Liz Truss to suggest that perhaps prioritising changes that will help facilitate that growth might mean that you can do the other stuff a bit quicker too!

    Thanks, btw, for doing these summaries - I've found them really useful.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,104
    boulay said:

    Well, Rishi might not be remembered as the best PM, not remotely the longest serving PM, not the longest serving modern day Tory PM but he might go into the history books as the very last Conservative PM. Beat that Liz and Boris.

    Put it this way. Rishi Sunak is no David Lloyd George.
  • Options
    CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 396

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    How long have you lived in the UK?
    Long enough to know about Timmy robinson and his mates
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,914
    500+ seats for Labour would be nuts and expose the broken-ness of FPTP (when it breaks, it really breaks) but it will lead to a ridiculously entertaining parliament. The opposition parties will go through a huge change and reconfiguration and Labour will probably get its own internal opposition/some floor crossers.
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,907
    edited June 13
    FPT

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know the details of Labour's proposed planning reforms?

    All I can see on BBC is that "planning is at the heart of reforms" but then silence on what those reforms are?

    Our planning system and NIMBYism is the biggest barrier to growth and development in this country. But as far as reforms are concerned, I'll believe it when I see it.

    Labour Manifesto:
    Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
    ...
    Britain is hampered by a planning regime that means we struggle to build either the infrastructure or housing the country needs.
    ...
    The current planning regime acts as a major brake on economic growth. Labour will make the changes we need to forge ahead with new roads, railways, reservoirs, and other nationally significant infrastructure. We will set out new national policy statements, make major projects faster and cheaper by slashing red tape, and build support for developments by ensuring communities directly benefit. We will also update national planning policy to ensure the planning system meets the needs of a modern economy, making it easier to build laboratories, digital infrastructure, and gigafactories.
    ...
    We will ensure our industrial strategy supports the development of the Artificial Intelligence (AI) sector, removes planning barriers to new datacentres.
    ...
    We will immediately update the National Policy Planning Framework to undo damaging Conservative changes, including restoring mandatory housing targets...strengthen the presumption in favour of sustainable development.
    ...
    Appoint 300 new planning officers
    The above is essentially everything from the Labour manifesto that mentions planning. There's a bit more detail on local plans, green belt, (& 5G!) etc, but nothing you'd miss.

    The best thing you can say about it is that recruiting more planning officers should at least mean that planning applications are processed more quickly.

    I guess we'd have to wait and see a future Planning Bill to get the detail. I expect that it's a long way from what you want.
    Thanks.

    Abolishing planning officers altogether by making planning automatic would be a far better policy. But looks like nobody is brave enough to embrace that approach unfortunately.

    Looks like Labour at least understand the problem and are attempting a solution, even if its not enough its better than nothing.

    I may have to lend them my vote.
    Abolishing planning officers? Nonsense. Would make planning completely nonexistent. Housing estates built without the sewerage and processing ability, that sort of tyhing, a shitstorm in the most literal sense.
    Abolition of Planning (incl. officers) would give us gin palaces all over the national talks.

    "Money talks" needs a bridle, which is what the planning system is for - and we like it being controlled.

    There are opportunities to do much - for example in London quite a lot of the Green Belt can be quite accurately called "brown field", and could be used. And there is a lot of opportunity for intensification of modern estates fairly close to Inner London which are near the end of their design life.
    @BartholomewRoberts
    This is an analysis of the labour manifesto on planning. The changes are a bit subtle but will have an impact.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/labour-manifesto-what-does-mean-practitioners-from-day-harris-kc--qk8oe/

    When you say things like 'we need to get rid of planning officers' I think you mean that you want to allocate land for development, with design codes, rather than a process of 'case by case' wrangling. But someone still has to allocate the land for development and write the design code and then enforce it.
    Yes I want design codes but no planning permission or consent required.

    If you own land that is zoned for construction then you should be able to decide today you want to start building on it and get the builders in tomorrow, without discussions with the Council or neighbours or anyone else.
    Can you have a go at writing a design code?

    How high, and how close to the boundary?
    What about balconies/windows, can they overlook neighbours?
    how many houses on each plot?
    what about access. Can you connect to the road at any point on your land?
    noise from plant, impacts on trees in neighbouring gardens?

    How high? 3 stories should be automatic. 4+ I can see requiring permission.

    How close to the boundary? Touching but not crossing the boundary.

    Can they overlook neighbours? Of course.

    How many houses on each plot? Owner/developers choice.

    Road access, that's a good question. Have to think on that one.

    Trees etc should be treated the same as if someone who already lives in a property wants to plant a tree.
    ok...
    I appreciate your effort.
    However, how many people do you think would be happy with having a three storey building with balconies and windows overlooking them directly on their garden boundary?
    And then the next developer could build right up to the boundary on the next plot, thus completely blocking out all the light/outlook to the houses that have been built on the first plot.

    There are many successful examples of zoning and design codes, but the building rights end up being very limited and restrictive, largely to try and avoid the situation I have described above.
    They are mostly in places where building is going on at relatively lower densities than that which exist in the UK.
    So you end up back where you started, with a system of ' discretionary planning permission'.
    This is the 'circuit' that politicians run whenever they try and implement this idea.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 45,584

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    How long have you lived in the UK?
    Actually, I could see some RefUK types re-staging the invasion of the House Of Commons by Otis Ferry & chums.
  • Options
    madmacsmadmacs Posts: 79
    Re the Lib Dems. I live in Gloucester City - part of which which is now in Tewkesbury Constituency. Electoral Calculus shows it as a Labour gain. I don't see it. As someone on else here said the Labour candidate is clearly a paper candidate' getting a bit of experience for the future. Labour have no councillors in the Constituency and doing very little - clearly focused on Gloucester Parliamentary seat. In contrast the Lib Dems have I think eighteen councillors in the Constituency and are working hard. The Tory MP does not have a great reputation, at least in the Gloucester bits of his constituency. Not saying the Lib Dems will win, but I don't see how Labour comes anywhere but third.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,327

    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Make Britain a clean energy superpower

    • Create 650k jobs though Green industries.
    • Double onshore wind, triple solar panel, quadruple offshore win.
    • Will get Hinkley point c ‘over the line’ new nuclear stations will play a role.
    • Phased and ‘responsible’ transition in north sea. Not revoke existing licences. Oil and gas for decades to come.
    • Will close loopholes in the windfall tax – energy profits levy extended to end of next parliament.
    • Great British Energy Company – partner with industry and unions to deliver clean power – 8.3bn over 5 years.
    • Scotland to be powerhouse of clean energy mission
    • Tougher energy regulation
    • National wealth fund invest in ports, hydrogen, industrial clusters.
    • British hobs bonus to incentivize firms offering good conditions in marginals (note – actually they say industrial heartlands and coastal areas)
    • End injustice of mineworkers pension scheme (note – highly specific – what is the injustice?)
    • 66.bn for energy efficiency.
    • A lot of vague stuff on accelerating net zero.
    • 9 new national reiver walks, 3 new national forests
    • Water companies in special measures (note – not nationalise though)
    • Ban trail hunting and puppy smuggling.
    Take back our streets
    • Violence is high, few criminals caught. Community policing has been downgraded, trust in police down, justice grinding to a halt.
    • ‘Thousands’ of extra officers.
    • Hold ‘companies and executives cashing in on knife crime’ to account (note – I have no idea who is cashing in on this?)
    • New recruits paid for through efficiency (note – of course!)
    • Specific offence for assault on shopkeepers (note – why is a new law needed for this? – seems like a gimmick)
    • Ban ninja swords, zombie style blades.
    • Early intervention through pupil referral units and youth worker sin A & E.
    • Fast track rape cases, specialist courts at every crown court
    • New powers to intervene with failing forces.
    • Cut trial delays by allowing associate prosecutors to work on cases.
    • Tories failed to get prisons built – labour will use powers to build them
    • Hillsborough law
    • Lot of vague stuff on reducing reoffending and improving collaboration etc
    Any more of this and I will publish a manifesto.

    Ninja swords are already banned as are a range of knives that almost never get used for hurting people. Most stabbings are undertaken with moderate sized kitchen knives. The ones where the blade is a bit bigger than the handle.
    Wow, the Labour government is so effective it is already succeeding before it even takes office!
    They were banned about 57 Martial Arts Weapons Panics ago. Last millennium, IIRC.

    The sensible bit was they reused the rules from the American occupation of Japan to exempt real, historic swords while condemning to the scrap heap the cheap shit.
    I'm asking whether taking back our streets is going to include dealing with Anti-Social Parking.
    That's in my manifesto.

    Getting the Boyes rifle back into production is a key deliverable for that.
    Have I explained my winning manifesto promise on here before? Every one who is a decent sort (enjoys Test Cricket, knows their beer, can make a decent fry up - those sorts of criteria) gets a Glock 19 with a standard 15 round magazine through the post.

    Those 15 are freebies and you can use them as you wish, but if you can justify the use of a round you get posted a replacement.

    Justifications might include “he was standing on the wrong side of the escalator” or “he had his top button done up with no tie”. All the serious offences.
    Nonsense.

    In my manifesto, a key point is the obligatory possession of nuclear weapons by every adult. Pacifists and the like can have small tactical weapons.

    Among other things, this will rapidly end the Post Code War stabbings. Live together or die together.

    EDIT: Most traffic wardens will only have God's Own Rifle, in the original wooden furniture. The Boyes will be for specialist enforcement units.
    It’s the only way they will learn.
    Sgt. Shaftoe - “Haven’t you guys figured out yet that banzai charges DON’T FUCKING WORK?”

    “All of the people who learned that were killed in banzai charges,” Goto Dengo says.
    Cryptonomicon ?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,115

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    How long have you lived in the UK?
    Long enough to know about Timmy robinson and his mates
    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/nigel-farage-quits-ukip-over-fixation-with-thuggish-tommy-robinson

    2018: Nigel Farage quits Ukip over 'fixation' with 'thuggish' Tommy Robinson
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,028
    Our polling cards arrived today!

    Did we get a definitive view on when postal voting starts? I assume they are issued at the same time as the polling cards.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,435

    For all his faults, this election is a complete step up from 2019 which was a joke.

    2010 was the last positive election, 1992 and 1997 also good ones.
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    RattersRatters Posts: 896

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Have we all been looking in the wrong place for crossover? The LDs seem to be galloping up through the middle.
    I mean, the Lib Dems do have the benefit of having a history of people voting for them in elections.

    Second place in recent local elections. Vote percentages between 18% and 23% between 1997 and 2010. Lots of by-election wins.

    I'm not convinced they've had the traction needed to reach those levels, but if their % is similar to the Tories it will be more concentrated and so more efficient.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,000
    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,028
    madmacs said:

    Re the Lib Dems. I live in Gloucester City - part of which which is now in Tewkesbury Constituency. Electoral Calculus shows it as a Labour gain. I don't see it. As someone on else here said the Labour candidate is clearly a paper candidate' getting a bit of experience for the future. Labour have no councillors in the Constituency and doing very little - clearly focused on Gloucester Parliamentary seat. In contrast the Lib Dems have I think eighteen councillors in the Constituency and are working hard. The Tory MP does not have a great reputation, at least in the Gloucester bits of his constituency. Not saying the Lib Dems will win, but I don't see how Labour comes anywhere but third.

    EC is not much use for tactical voting. I'd suggest looking at tactical.vote:

    https://tactical.vote/tewkesbury/
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,604

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    Esher & Walton nailed on Tory hold.

    My boy Dave was out campaigning there today.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,435
    edited June 13

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    I must admit, something like this has occurred to me over the last few years.

    Even if aliens landed on the White House lawn, about half the people in the world would dismiss it as a plot by the WEF, on current trends.
    On a similar theme, you would be amazed at the number of people who still believe in the moon landings!
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 19,372
    darkage said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know the details of Labour's proposed planning reforms?

    All I can see on BBC is that "planning is at the heart of reforms" but then silence on what those reforms are?

    Our planning system and NIMBYism is the biggest barrier to growth and development in this country. But as far as reforms are concerned, I'll believe it when I see it.

    Labour Manifesto:
    Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
    ...
    Britain is hampered by a planning regime that means we struggle to build either the infrastructure or housing the country needs.
    ...
    The current planning regime acts as a major brake on economic growth. Labour will make the changes we need to forge ahead with new roads, railways, reservoirs, and other nationally significant infrastructure. We will set out new national policy statements, make major projects faster and cheaper by slashing red tape, and build support for developments by ensuring communities directly benefit. We will also update national planning policy to ensure the planning system meets the needs of a modern economy, making it easier to build laboratories, digital infrastructure, and gigafactories.
    ...
    We will ensure our industrial strategy supports the development of the Artificial Intelligence (AI) sector, removes planning barriers to new datacentres.
    ...
    We will immediately update the National Policy Planning Framework to undo damaging Conservative changes, including restoring mandatory housing targets...strengthen the presumption in favour of sustainable development.
    ...
    Appoint 300 new planning officers
    The above is essentially everything from the Labour manifesto that mentions planning. There's a bit more detail on local plans, green belt, (& 5G!) etc, but nothing you'd miss.

    The best thing you can say about it is that recruiting more planning officers should at least mean that planning applications are processed more quickly.

    I guess we'd have to wait and see a future Planning Bill to get the detail. I expect that it's a long way from what you want.
    Thanks.

    Abolishing planning officers altogether by making planning automatic would be a far better policy. But looks like nobody is brave enough to embrace that approach unfortunately.

    Looks like Labour at least understand the problem and are attempting a solution, even if its not enough its better than nothing.

    I may have to lend them my vote.
    Abolishing planning officers? Nonsense. Would make planning completely nonexistent. Housing estates built without the sewerage and processing ability, that sort of tyhing, a shitstorm in the most literal sense.
    Abolition of Planning (incl. officers) would give us gin palaces all over the national talks.

    "Money talks" needs a bridle, which is what the planning system is for - and we like it being controlled.

    There are opportunities to do much - for example in London quite a lot of the Green Belt can be quite accurately called "brown field", and could be used. And there is a lot of opportunity for intensification of modern estates fairly close to Inner London which are near the end of their design life.
    @BartholomewRoberts
    This is an analysis of the labour manifesto on planning. The changes are a bit subtle but will have an impact.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/labour-manifesto-what-does-mean-practitioners-from-day-harris-kc--qk8oe/

    When you say things like 'we need to get rid of planning officers' I think you mean that you want to allocate land for development, with design codes, rather than a process of 'case by case' wrangling. But someone still has to allocate the land for development and write the design code and then enforce it.
    Yes I want design codes but no planning permission or consent required.

    If you own land that is zoned for construction then you should be able to decide today you want to start building on it and get the builders in tomorrow, without discussions with the Council or neighbours or anyone else.
    Can you have a go at writing a design code?

    How high, and how close to the boundary?
    What about balconies/windows, can they overlook neighbours?
    how many houses on each plot?
    what about access. Can you connect to the road at any point on your land?
    noise from plant, impacts on trees in neighbouring gardens?

    How high? 3 stories should be automatic. 4+ I can see requiring permission.

    How close to the boundary? Touching but not crossing the boundary.

    Can they overlook neighbours? Of course.

    How many houses on each plot? Owner/developers choice.

    Road access, that's a good question. Have to think on that one.

    Trees etc should be treated the same as if someone who already lives in a property wants to plant a tree.
    ok...
    I appreciate your effort.
    However, how many people do you think would be happy with having a three storey building with balconies and windows overlooking them directly on their garden boundary?
    And then the next developer could build right up to the boundary on the next plot, thus completely blocking out all the light/outlook to the houses that have been built on the first plot.

    There are many successful examples of zoning and design codes, but the building rights end up being very limited and restrictive, largely to try and avoid the situation I have described above.
    They are mostly in places where building is going on at relatively lower densities than that which exist in the UK.
    So you end up back where you started, with a system of ' discretionary planning permission'.
    This is the 'circuit' that politicians run whenever they try and implement this idea.
    My neighbours can see into my garden and I can into theirs already. That's perfectly standard in any development of semis or terraces.

    Speaking of which, if the neighbour builds to the property edge and you do too, then you have a semi detached home. Ditto if your other neighbour does then now it's a terrace.

    If you want a gap between yourself and your neighbours there's no reason you can't put a gap in your own land.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,673
    FF43 said:

    boulay said:

    Well, Rishi might not be remembered as the best PM, not remotely the longest serving PM, not the longest serving modern day Tory PM but he might go into the history books as the very last Conservative PM. Beat that Liz and Boris.

    Put it this way. Rishi Sunak is no David Lloyd George.
    I wonder what odds you'd get on SKS being PM longer than Sunak? With over 400 MPs party discipline won't be easy and when the spending cuts that are already baked in start to hit...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 57,149
    FF43 said:

    boulay said:

    Well, Rishi might not be remembered as the best PM, not remotely the longest serving PM, not the longest serving modern day Tory PM but he might go into the history books as the very last Conservative PM. Beat that Liz and Boris.

    Put it this way. Rishi Sunak is no David Lloyd George.
    He needs to fucking pull himself together and man up. Stop wanking over his stupid spreadsheets, practice emotional intelligence 4 hours a day with a personal coach, go out and talk to people and put on the performance of his life.

    Conservative activist morale is at rock bottom.
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,165

    Do Reform actually have a manifesto/launch etc? Last big chance to try and cannibalise the Tory vote?

    The Refuk manifesto is now due on Monday (was originally going to have been Weds, along with GPEW). Whether that's because they're beefing it up, or it'll just take them five days to search & replace Tice for Farage is anyone's guess.

    Their issue is going to be the lack of a deep party structure to help develop policy, and I'd assume that the manifesto will be more like the SDP's than the Lib Dems or Greens. But who knows - maybe they'll pull a blinder...
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 21,435

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    There must have been quite substantial changes in the electorate in Surrey with wfh and London prices driving younger people out of London to Surrey, all very helpful for the LDs. Now in the past those 30 and 40 somethings were Conservative, or turning Conservative but that switch is not happening and the rate people are moving out at has accelerated.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,285
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    Almost every pollster has Labour support dropping. The question is will it continue,
    A few more tactical points to the Libs could be nice. No point wasting centre-left votes in safe seats.
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    Baso, Winchester, Guildford, have all gone, possibly forever.
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,653

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    How long have you lived in the UK?
    Actually, I could see some RefUK types re-staging the invasion of the House Of Commons by Otis Ferry & chums.
    France can keep their Sans Culottes, we will have the Rouge-Culottes.
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    RattersRatters Posts: 896

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    Esher & Walton nailed on Tory hold.

    My boy Dave was out campaigning there today.
    No chance of Tories holding there. 3,000 majority. It will become part of the Lib Dem stronghold in the south west of London (and into quasi-London Surrey seats like Esher).

    The fact Cameron is wasting his time campaigning there tells me they are focussing in the wrong places.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,554
    GIN1138 said:

    Based on those ratings If Con had decided it was Time4Penny it's possible this election might have been competitive...

    Had it been another day, had she looked the other way. Parties fall, like everyone else, first slowly, then very quickly. It seems like the Tories just put their foot on the accelerator to oblivion.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,285

    The improvement in Keir Starmer's ratings is definitely a trend. I think he will briefly hit positive numbers after the election during the summer. I suspect this is mostly on the basis that people are convincing themselves to think better of doing something that they know they have to do anyway, rather than any great wave of enthusiasm, but it does suggest that the decline in Labour poll ratings isn't the start of a Labour disintegration.

    Interesting. And good spot.
  • Options

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    There must have been quite substantial changes in the electorate in Surrey with wfh and London prices driving younger people out of London to Surrey, all very helpful for the LDs. Now in the past those 30 and 40 somethings were Conservative, or turning Conservative but that switch is not happening and the rate people are moving out at has accelerated.
    It's interesting, Farnham is/was in that seat, an area I know well. I'd call it true blue Tory with the seat next door to it of Damian Hinds really true blue. But even that on the current polling becomes only vaguely safe.

    I do think Johnson set the rot in. @CorrectHorseBattery in 2019 recounted that if weren't for Corbyn, the Lib Dems would have cleaned up.

    I do think the signs of the Lib Dem success were there in 2019, similar to the Tory success in 2017.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,866

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    Yep. I don't care what they say, I can't see the Cons holding that without Gove.
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    Dopermean said:

    Fishing said:

    The real news from the Labour Party manifesto launch is buried away on page 103.

    Labour is committed to reducing gambling-related harm. Recognising the evolution of the gambling landscape since 2005, Labour will reform gambling regulation, strengthening protections. We will continue to work with the industry on how to ensure responsible gambling.
    https://labour.org.uk/change/build-an-nhs-fit-for-the-future/

    Would be better to tax winnings, with the proceeds to reduce NI or corporation tax. It is ridiculous that income from working hard is taxed very heavily while games of chance aren't. In the US, where I am at the moment, gambling winnings are taxed as normal income.
    If you were to tax winnings as income then surely losses should be allowed to be offset?
    Oh wow - a hail-Mary long odds bet to eat up your high rate income. Joyous. If it comes off you'd enjoy paying the extra tax.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,285
    Sophy says that Labour’s manifesto is an “election winner”, but she urges more tax and spend to make it “easier to govern”.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,604
    Ratters said:

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    Esher & Walton nailed on Tory hold.

    My boy Dave was out campaigning there today.
    No chance of Tories holding there. 3,000 majority. It will become part of the Lib Dem stronghold in the south west of London (and into quasi-London Surrey seats like Esher).

    The fact Cameron is wasting his time campaigning there tells me they are focussing in the wrong places.
    JohnO is campaigning there, I have faith in my fellow PB Tory.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,364

    FF43 said:

    boulay said:

    Well, Rishi might not be remembered as the best PM, not remotely the longest serving PM, not the longest serving modern day Tory PM but he might go into the history books as the very last Conservative PM. Beat that Liz and Boris.

    Put it this way. Rishi Sunak is no David Lloyd George.
    He needs to fucking pull himself together and man up. Stop wanking over his stupid spreadsheets, practice emotional intelligence 4 hours a day with a personal coach, go out and talk to people and put on the performance of his life.

    Conservative activist morale is at rock bottom.
    He is quite simply the most pathetic politician of my lifetime.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,397
    @josiahmortimer
    Some hefty stats here from @robfordmancs: "Rishi Sunak’s net satisfaction rating of -53 is the worst recorded by MORI one month out from an election in all of the elections they have covered since 1979 - worse than Gordon Brown in 2010 (-36), John Major in 1997 (-46) or James Callaghan in 1979 (-33).

    "The net rating of the Sunak government is, at -71, the worst approval of any British government MORI have asked about on the brink of an election...

    "More than two thirds of British voters tell MORI the government doesn’t deserve to be re-elected next month, nearly three quarters say it is time for a change, and four fifths say the government has done a bad job. All of these figures are now at the highest level since Sunak took office...

    "While a miracle of late persuasion cannot be ruled out, at present the most relevant question for Conservative MPs isn’t “can we win?” but rather “can any of us survive?”"
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,449

    One observation: with the vote share for reform only giving 3 seats and a super majority for Labour, I predict a Capitol Hill style event.

    What would that even mean in this context?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,977

    Labour leads by 24%.

    Lowest EVER Conservative % (worse than Truss).

    Highest Lib Dem % in 2024.

    🇬🇧 Westminster Voting Intention (12-13 June):

    Labour 42% (-3)
    Conservative 18% (-1)
    Reform 17% (–)
    Lib Dem 13% (+3)
    Green 5% (–)
    SNP 3% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 7-10 June


    https://x.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1801291564997636520

    The only question remaining is how those shifts are distributed.

    A three percent Lab to LD swing everywhere is probably bad for Rishi.

    A fifteen percent swing in the right 100 or so constituencies is potentially terrifying.

    And by now, the profusion of orange diamonds means that the LibDem targeting strategy ought to be literally visible from space.
    The LibDems were stung by getting carried away mid campaign last time, and a ‘stay focused’ message went out to LD candidates yesterday. The party wants to make sure of getting 20-30 seats and will treat any others that come their way as windfall. They’re determined not to divert resources away from the short target list.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,449

    Sophy says that Labour’s manifesto is an “election winner”, but she urges more tax and spend to make it “easier to govern”.

    It was overly wordy and non-committal, so I should have loved it, but it was a slog.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,686
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    What's new? The moon landings were watched by half the world yet millions of people think they were faked.
    What’s new is that they now have plausible reasons for saying any video is fake, because the technology now exists to do this, and it did not exist before, certainly not in 1969
    Why was it technically impossible to 'fake' the Moon landings in 1969? All most people got back was grainy TV pictures.

    For myself: I never saw a Saturn V launch live. I don't send laser beams to the reflectors the astronauts left on the Moon. All I ever see is historic footage.

    A few years later, they even made a documentary about the cancelled Mars landing - Capricorn One.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricorn_One

    ;)

    Of Mitchell and Webb's take:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,449

    darkage said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know the details of Labour's proposed planning reforms?

    All I can see on BBC is that "planning is at the heart of reforms" but then silence on what those reforms are?

    Our planning system and NIMBYism is the biggest barrier to growth and development in this country. But as far as reforms are concerned, I'll believe it when I see it.

    Labour Manifesto:
    Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
    ...
    Britain is hampered by a planning regime that means we struggle to build either the infrastructure or housing the country needs.
    ...
    The current planning regime acts as a major brake on economic growth. Labour will make the changes we need to forge ahead with new roads, railways, reservoirs, and other nationally significant infrastructure. We will set out new national policy statements, make major projects faster and cheaper by slashing red tape, and build support for developments by ensuring communities directly benefit. We will also update national planning policy to ensure the planning system meets the needs of a modern economy, making it easier to build laboratories, digital infrastructure, and gigafactories.
    ...
    We will ensure our industrial strategy supports the development of the Artificial Intelligence (AI) sector, removes planning barriers to new datacentres.
    ...
    We will immediately update the National Policy Planning Framework to undo damaging Conservative changes, including restoring mandatory housing targets...strengthen the presumption in favour of sustainable development.
    ...
    Appoint 300 new planning officers
    The above is essentially everything from the Labour manifesto that mentions planning. There's a bit more detail on local plans, green belt, (& 5G!) etc, but nothing you'd miss.

    The best thing you can say about it is that recruiting more planning officers should at least mean that planning applications are processed more quickly.

    I guess we'd have to wait and see a future Planning Bill to get the detail. I expect that it's a long way from what you want.
    Thanks.

    Abolishing planning officers altogether by making planning automatic would be a far better policy. But looks like nobody is brave enough to embrace that approach unfortunately.

    Looks like Labour at least understand the problem and are attempting a solution, even if its not enough its better than nothing.

    I may have to lend them my vote.
    Abolishing planning officers? Nonsense. Would make planning completely nonexistent. Housing estates built without the sewerage and processing ability, that sort of tyhing, a shitstorm in the most literal sense.
    Abolition of Planning (incl. officers) would give us gin palaces all over the national talks.

    "Money talks" needs a bridle, which is what the planning system is for - and we like it being controlled.

    There are opportunities to do much - for example in London quite a lot of the Green Belt can be quite accurately called "brown field", and could be used. And there is a lot of opportunity for intensification of modern estates fairly close to Inner London which are near the end of their design life.
    @BartholomewRoberts
    This is an analysis of the labour manifesto on planning. The changes are a bit subtle but will have an impact.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/labour-manifesto-what-does-mean-practitioners-from-day-harris-kc--qk8oe/

    When you say things like 'we need to get rid of planning officers' I think you mean that you want to allocate land for development, with design codes, rather than a process of 'case by case' wrangling. But someone still has to allocate the land for development and write the design code and then enforce it.
    Yes I want design codes but no planning permission or consent required.

    If you own land that is zoned for construction then you should be able to decide today you want to start building on it and get the builders in tomorrow, without discussions with the Council or neighbours or anyone else.
    Can you have a go at writing a design code?

    How high, and how close to the boundary?
    What about balconies/windows, can they overlook neighbours?
    how many houses on each plot?
    what about access. Can you connect to the road at any point on your land?
    noise from plant, impacts on trees in neighbouring gardens?

    How high? 3 stories should be automatic. 4+ I can see requiring permission.

    How close to the boundary? Touching but not crossing the boundary.

    Can they overlook neighbours? Of course.

    How many houses on each plot? Owner/developers choice.

    Road access, that's a good question. Have to think on that one.

    Trees etc should be treated the same as if someone who already lives in a property wants to plant a tree.
    ok...
    I appreciate your effort.
    However, how many people do you think would be happy with having a three storey building with balconies and windows overlooking them directly on their garden boundary?
    And then the next developer could build right up to the boundary on the next plot, thus completely blocking out all the light/outlook to the houses that have been built on the first plot.

    There are many successful examples of zoning and design codes, but the building rights end up being very limited and restrictive, largely to try and avoid the situation I have described above.
    They are mostly in places where building is going on at relatively lower densities than that which exist in the UK.
    So you end up back where you started, with a system of ' discretionary planning permission'.
    This is the 'circuit' that politicians run whenever they try and implement this idea.
    My neighbours can see into my garden and I can into theirs already. That's perfectly standard in any development of semis or terraces.

    Speaking of which, if the neighbour builds to the property edge and you do too, then you have a semi detached home. Ditto if your other neighbour does then now it's a terrace.

    If you want a gap between yourself and your neighbours there's no reason you can't put a gap in your own land.
    It is astonishing to me how horrified many people are by many things that are actually very common.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,705
    edited June 13

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Re; the Ultraterrestrial paper, it's quite interesting.

    The "as yet to be peer reviewed" is nevertheless a hint of amusement, a bit like Wikipedia's "Citation Needed." At the same time, we could be in for some surprises in the next few decades on this topic, though. I don't think most people have adjusted to , or are aware of the greater expert interest in the topic, at the moment.


    It is interesting

    Check this as well. A UFO seen in Tehran by multiple witnesses, and filmed

    Looks very convincing so it’s either a rather clever hoax, or - the other main explanation - drones. What do you reckon?

    If it is a hoax it is one of the best - with several different angles - and yet we live in an era when tech can create wildly convincing fake videos, of course

    https://x.com/greatwhyteshk/status/1798071608516727270?s=61&t=GGp3Vs1t1kTWDiyA-odnZg
    That's certainly more visually convincing than many I've seen, but I no longer know whether to trust any video like this , as AI film technology advances, as you're mentioning.

    For that reason increasingly I think any breakthroughs here might come from verbal testimony first, not video or photography. Let's see what transpires in Congress.
    There’s a very astute comment under that tweet from a Spanish guy. Who points out that such is the state of video fakery (superb) even if we now get the most compelling footage in history people will dismiss it as fake, indeed they are MORE likely to dismiss it as fake the better it is

    So we are now past the moment when any piece of video or photo evidence, no matter how good, will do “the job”

    And also many people are inclined to dismiss anything anyway, as we see

    That’s got me thinking - what next? This evolution leaves us with eye witness testimony, but that is all too easily dismissed as “he’s a loony” - or we may get very senior people saying “yes we have evidence” but that can likewise be dismissed as psy-ops, contagion, mass hallucination

    The conclusion is that we will now never have evidence for UFOs that convinces anyone, and indeed we will never have clinching evidence of anything - anything at all - ever again - and everyone can live in denial of anything they choose. It’s going to be mad. We will all live in our own tiny bubble of personal reality, no objective reality will exist, not any more

    The wet market hypothesis was arguably an early test run of this: post truth reality
    Up to a point. But what happens if Tim Burchett gathers 12 high-level, official Congressional witnesses who provide new information, that might support some of David Grusch's claim last year ?

    That's what he's promising, so I would keep an eye on that. There would definitely be a change in media approach if the new legal whisteblower protections he's promising, bring new evidence into the public domain.
    But I now believe even that would be dismissed. People don’t WANT to believe in anything that makes them uncomfortable - and “advances” in social media and technology now make such a stance much less uncomfortable. This applies on all sides to everything

    Republicans can believe in Q Anon even tho it’s rubbish and lefties can dismiss awkward racial data even tho it’s true and so on and so forth

    The future is gonna be surreal
    What's new? The moon landings were watched by half the world yet millions of people think they were faked.
    I think the other change, is that public trust is so much lower ; combined with what Leon and I mentioned about improved AI technology. I did a little intellectual exercise in my head on this a few years ago, quite closely related to what Leon is saying, and decided it was socially a very interesting one, even for most people believing something like this would never happen.

    At what stage, would a reasonably large number of people accept that this wasn't a hologram, or a pretext by unnamed elites to take over the world ; Or would they, in fact, never do ?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,686
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    boulay said:

    Well, Rishi might not be remembered as the best PM, not remotely the longest serving PM, not the longest serving modern day Tory PM but he might go into the history books as the very last Conservative PM. Beat that Liz and Boris.

    Put it this way. Rishi Sunak is no David Lloyd George.
    He needs to fucking pull himself together and man up. Stop wanking over his stupid spreadsheets, practice emotional intelligence 4 hours a day with a personal coach, go out and talk to people and put on the performance of his life.

    Conservative activist morale is at rock bottom.
    He is quite simply the most pathetic politician of my lifetime.
    He is the result - and victim - of the festering, pathetic corpse of a party that the Europhobes and Brexiteers made the Conservatives. Any so-called 'conservative' who supported the Europhiles hold as much, if not more, blame for the party's current situation as Sunak.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,794
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Labour Manifesto Part 3
    Break down the barriers to opportunity

    • ‘Review’ universal credit
    • ‘take initial steps’ to confront poverty, protect renters from arbitrary eviction, slash fuel poverty, ban ‘exploitative’ zero hours contracts (note – is this that they are exploitative by nature, or only some are?)
    • Enact proposals on leasehold enfranchisement, right to manage, and commonhold.
    • 3000 more nurseries through space in primary schools.
    • End VAT exemption for private schools.
    • 6500 teachers. Will tackle retention issues (note – how?)
    • Excellence in leadership programme to mentor headteachers to improve schools.
    • Limit number of branded items of uniform and PE kit that schools can require.
    • Mental health professionals in every school (note – so far I think everyone has promises this, or nearly this).
    • Technical Excellent Colleges to provide better job opportunities.
    • Reform apprenticeships levy.
    • Public museums to increase collection loans to communities.
    • National music education network.
    • Independent Football Regulator.
    • Disability and ethnicity pay gap reporting.
    • Conversion therapy ban.
    • ‘simplify’ gender recognition law which is intrusive, but retain need for diagnosis (note – unclear what they are doing then?)

    Build an NHS fit for the future
    • Another ‘former conservative voter’ photo
    • Labour founded the NHS, it is not broken, and not due to Covid. ‘Winter crisis’ now normal (note – it is finally true, though I’m sure this was the media reporting when I was growing up too). Labour will save the NHS.
    • Lot of stuff about changing how the NHS works, but not all of it can have been due to Tories, so admission things were not all well?
    • 18 weeks from referral to treatment of non urgent matters.
    • 40k more appointments every week
    • ‘reset’ relations with staff by moving away from Tory approach (note – no detail. In what way will you move away?)
    • New Hospitals Programme.
    • Fit for the future fund to double CT and MI scanners.
    • Too many not treated with respect in medicine (note – is that the Tories’ fault too?)
    • Thousands more midwives.
    • Royal college of clinical leadership.
    • Implement Cass review.
    • Thousands more GPs
    • Community pharmacists to have more prescribing rights.
    • 700k more urgent detail appointments. Reform dental contract, focus on prevention (note – such an innovation!)
    • Social care needs reform – national care service. Fair pay agreement in adult social care. Will consult widely on it before implementing. Guarantee rights of those in residential care to see their families.
    • 8500 new staff to treat mental health. Mental Health Act discriminates against black people.
    • Next generation not able to buy cigarettes.
    • ‘work with industry on how to ensure responsible gambling’ (note – nothing of substance mentioned)
    6500 teachers. Will tackle retention issues (note – how?)

    Oh come on, that's easy and obvious. If one of them wants to quit you just say "uh EXCUSE ME that bell is for me not for you. Sit back down. I said bit back down and Darren I don't want to see you rolling your eyes."
    The easiest way to improve teacher retention is to ban private schools and private tuition. All children to be indocrinated taught by the State.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,115
    edited June 13

    darkage said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    darkage said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    Does anyone know the details of Labour's proposed planning reforms?

    All I can see on BBC is that "planning is at the heart of reforms" but then silence on what those reforms are?

    Our planning system and NIMBYism is the biggest barrier to growth and development in this country. But as far as reforms are concerned, I'll believe it when I see it.

    Labour Manifesto:
    Planning reform to build 1.5 million new homes
    ...
    Britain is hampered by a planning regime that means we struggle to build either the infrastructure or housing the country needs.
    ...
    The current planning regime acts as a major brake on economic growth. Labour will make the changes we need to forge ahead with new roads, railways, reservoirs, and other nationally significant infrastructure. We will set out new national policy statements, make major projects faster and cheaper by slashing red tape, and build support for developments by ensuring communities directly benefit. We will also update national planning policy to ensure the planning system meets the needs of a modern economy, making it easier to build laboratories, digital infrastructure, and gigafactories.
    ...
    We will ensure our industrial strategy supports the development of the Artificial Intelligence (AI) sector, removes planning barriers to new datacentres.
    ...
    We will immediately update the National Policy Planning Framework to undo damaging Conservative changes, including restoring mandatory housing targets...strengthen the presumption in favour of sustainable development.
    ...
    Appoint 300 new planning officers
    The above is essentially everything from the Labour manifesto that mentions planning. There's a bit more detail on local plans, green belt, (& 5G!) etc, but nothing you'd miss.

    The best thing you can say about it is that recruiting more planning officers should at least mean that planning applications are processed more quickly.

    I guess we'd have to wait and see a future Planning Bill to get the detail. I expect that it's a long way from what you want.
    Thanks.

    Abolishing planning officers altogether by making planning automatic would be a far better policy. But looks like nobody is brave enough to embrace that approach unfortunately.

    Looks like Labour at least understand the problem and are attempting a solution, even if its not enough its better than nothing.

    I may have to lend them my vote.
    Abolishing planning officers? Nonsense. Would make planning completely nonexistent. Housing estates built without the sewerage and processing ability, that sort of tyhing, a shitstorm in the most literal sense.
    Abolition of Planning (incl. officers) would give us gin palaces all over the national talks.

    "Money talks" needs a bridle, which is what the planning system is for - and we like it being controlled.

    There are opportunities to do much - for example in London quite a lot of the Green Belt can be quite accurately called "brown field", and could be used. And there is a lot of opportunity for intensification of modern estates fairly close to Inner London which are near the end of their design life.
    @BartholomewRoberts
    This is an analysis of the labour manifesto on planning. The changes are a bit subtle but will have an impact.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/labour-manifesto-what-does-mean-practitioners-from-day-harris-kc--qk8oe/

    When you say things like 'we need to get rid of planning officers' I think you mean that you want to allocate land for development, with design codes, rather than a process of 'case by case' wrangling. But someone still has to allocate the land for development and write the design code and then enforce it.
    Yes I want design codes but no planning permission or consent required.

    If you own land that is zoned for construction then you should be able to decide today you want to start building on it and get the builders in tomorrow, without discussions with the Council or neighbours or anyone else.
    Can you have a go at writing a design code?

    How high, and how close to the boundary?
    What about balconies/windows, can they overlook neighbours?
    how many houses on each plot?
    what about access. Can you connect to the road at any point on your land?
    noise from plant, impacts on trees in neighbouring gardens?

    How high? 3 stories should be automatic. 4+ I can see requiring permission.

    How close to the boundary? Touching but not crossing the boundary.

    Can they overlook neighbours? Of course.

    How many houses on each plot? Owner/developers choice.

    Road access, that's a good question. Have to think on that one.

    Trees etc should be treated the same as if someone who already lives in a property wants to plant a tree.
    ok...
    I appreciate your effort.
    However, how many people do you think would be happy with having a three storey building with balconies and windows overlooking them directly on their garden boundary?
    And then the next developer could build right up to the boundary on the next plot, thus completely blocking out all the light/outlook to the houses that have been built on the first plot.

    There are many successful examples of zoning and design codes, but the building rights end up being very limited and restrictive, largely to try and avoid the situation I have described above.
    They are mostly in places where building is going on at relatively lower densities than that which exist in the UK.
    So you end up back where you started, with a system of ' discretionary planning permission'.
    This is the 'circuit' that politicians run whenever they try and implement this idea.
    My neighbours can see into my garden and I can into theirs already. That's perfectly standard in any development of semis or terraces.

    Speaking of which, if the neighbour builds to the property edge and you do too, then you have a semi detached home. Ditto if your other neighbour does then now it's a terrace.

    If you want a gap between yourself and your neighbours there's no reason you can't put a gap in your own land.
    Would you be happy with another house having a balcony *directly on the perimeter of your garden*?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 13,129

    I think Surrey Heath is a nailed on Lib Dem gain. Tonnes of Lib Dem leaflets being shoved through my door as well

    There must have been quite substantial changes in the electorate in Surrey with wfh and London prices driving younger people out of London to Surrey, all very helpful for the LDs. Now in the past those 30 and 40 somethings were Conservative, or turning Conservative but that switch is not happening and the rate people are moving out at has accelerated.
    It's interesting, Farnham is/was in that seat, an area I know well. I'd call it true blue Tory with the seat next door to it of Damian Hinds really true blue. But even that on the current polling becomes only vaguely safe.

    I do think Johnson set the rot in. @CorrectHorseBattery in 2019 recounted that if weren't for Corbyn, the Lib Dems would have cleaned up.

    I do think the signs of the Lib Dem success were there in 2019, similar to the Tory success in 2017.
    The Conservative position at local level has been deteriorating for some years.

    I think the only Conservative administration left in the country is Reigate & Banstead - all the others have fallen either to the LDs or to coalitions which exclude the Conservatives.

    The County Council remains Conservative controlled but the majority was reduced in 2021 and is just seven. Whether that will be maintained at the 2025 elections remains very much to be seen.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,285
    kle4 said:

    Sophy says that Labour’s manifesto is an “election winner”, but she urges more tax and spend to make it “easier to govern”.

    It was overly wordy and non-committal, so I should have loved it, but it was a slog.
    Have you actually read it? 😃
This discussion has been closed.