Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
The Tories were only too happy to condemn Mr Miliband for eating a bacon sandwich, though, so they can't very well complain now.
One difference with that was Team Miliband actually set that PR shot up to show how much of a normal bloke he was and he flopped it. But yes it the criticism was OTT. It is a sign of how unserious our media have become. As we found out during COVID most of them can't even add 2 + 2, but spend their lives on the tw@tter machine reposting total nonsense. It just gets worse and worse, that literally all they talk about.
As I said previous thread, the ICJ ruling on Israel, Israel's response, there are serious questions to ask Sunak and Starmer, what you going to do, still send arms?
The ICJ ruling is a bloody disgrace, especially when it's not tied to a release of the hostages.
Israel, who are not a party to the ICJ, are well within their rights to give an Arkell v Pressdram response to the ruling.
It might be, but it does raise tricky questions for the likes of US and UK politicians. Its a serious question to ask them, Israel has signalled already they will continue on, what is your position, why, do you have your own redlines, etc. Its grown up proper stuff that needs addressing.
The US quite rightly is not a party to the ICJ, like Israel.
After today's despicable ruling, I would support us quitting such a twisted institution too.
My personal red line would be the unconditional release of all Israeli hostages taken last year, the unconditional surrender and disarmament of Hamas, and for Hamas to face justice for what they have done.
When that happens, then I would support the war ending. Until then, Israel has the right to self defence and if Hamas are in Rafah then they should be targeted there until they surrender unconditionally. Anyone who denies Israel the right to self defence is wrong, and that includes it seems the ICJ.
As Nelson Mandela who understood apartheid better than anyone said in 1977
"We Know Too well That Our Freedom Is Incomplete Without the Freedom of the Palestinians"
Would love to know what the ANC would think, and how they would react, to a separatist movement in SA. Zulus demanding their historic lands back in a free state. I’m sure they will hand them over.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
An irrationally large part of my brain is imagining a news programme decal on 4 July at 10pm saying "too close to call - Conservatives 315-330 seats - majority possible".
I have a Labour friend who says lots of people focus on 1992 and 2015 but Labour memories are seared by
1987 - It was a common observation by the media that Labour had the best campaign, on election night the BBC had a poll (not an exit poll) that showed a hung parliament - The result a Tory majority of over 100.
So after 1987 and 1992 even when the 1997 exit poll showed a massive Labour landslide, he was wired up for the worst result, it was only after Portillo lost he realised Labour were about to win.
Perceptions are strange things. I was an ardent Thatcherite in 1987 and knew she was going to win easily. It was a heady moment of total optimism for the UK - and a lot of my friends were going into the City which was just beginning to surge. You could feel London rising from its decades of decline - the long boom was commencing
Probably felt a bit different if you were in a Yorkshire coal town but fuck em
Battersea and Walthamstow went Tory in 1987. The Labour majority in Tottenham was reduced to 4,000 votes.
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I cant criticise now. My granddaughter will be in the same class as Wilfred so Im bound to bump in to him at some stage.
I am actually attending an event where Boris Johnson is also in attendance next month.
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Yes, it's pissing me off too.
The guy's alright.
It's almost like you're looking for reasons to vote Tory. Just do it if you want to - no one need know.
If I hadn't taken the photo myself in Taranto's amazing little museum, I would find it hard to believe. But it is the case
What we need is Tarantino doing a Tarantella in Taranto - I’m surprised he hasn’t worked it into a film as some little joke.
Taranto is magnificent. And gets about 5 foreign tourists a year. Go! Also really cheap
Let’s just hope some arse doesn’t let the world know about it through some magazine and ruin it for us insiders on PB.
Just in case that happens! - here's my insider advice. Fly to Bari direct, then hire a car and do a circuit around Taranto, Matera, Altamura, Castel del Monte, the Ionian coast, and - if you've got time - Gargano, from the forest to Vieste
Unless you go in peak summer only Matera will have significant tourists. even in peak summer you will be practically the only foreigners in Taranto
It's a really forgotten corner of Italy. Sure, it ain't Tuscany, there are plenty of bleak bits of countryside and chunks of nasty industry, but the gems are absolute gems, and the coast is often majestic - and it is very authentically Italian, and good value, and the food is commonly exceptional
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
The local election results showed the polling to largely be true.
That, plus a bit of tactical voting, is what I expect to happen.
Indeed, the 1995 and 1996 local election results were indicative of what would happen at the 1997 GE. I remember reading after the 1995 round the Telegraph doing its "analysis" claiming the numbers would give Labour over 400 seats and the Conservatives between 150 and 160 seats. Slightly low on the Conservative number but not by much.
This time, the Conservatives might take some comfort from the performances of Hall and Houchen as well as Street but the London GLA results were very poor for the Conservatives and I suspect are more indicative of how London will vote in the GE than the Mayoral contest.
They weren't really very poor. 2% to 3% swing to Lab and LD from peak Covid Boris Would retain most seats on that in London
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Yes, it's pissing me off too.
The guy's alright.
He may be "alright" but that isn't the point and nor are the ludicrous photo opportunities.
The point is he leads the Government - he is the one who is held accountable for the actions of the Government elected in 2019 and the one who should be able to answer the questions and concerns people have about whether this Government deserves re-election based on its record.
IF people think their lot has deteriorated and society is worse off than it was in December 2019, they may decide to look at alternatives. The Prime Minister has to take the criticism and answer the statistical evidence - politics is "rough trade" as someone once said and sometimes you have to take the rough with the jagged in that job.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I cant criticise now. My granddaughter will be in the same class as Wilfred so Im bound to bump in to him at some stage.
I am actually attending an event where Boris Johnson is also in attendance next month.
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Couldnt you just go for the laughs ? You could post a selfie of you and the Donald as your one picture.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
It was tedious before the election was announced. Listen to Starmer lying thro his back teeth about vat on school fees and his bullshit pledges as to the timing. The guy is going to struggle under questioning. He can't say anything without it sounding untruthful.
The Election isn't over. THE Tories WILL lose but imho there may be no.majority. Imagine Starmer in the hands of say 20.LD MPs... what fun.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Yes, it's pissing me off too.
The guy's alright.
It's almost like you're looking for reasons to vote Tory. Just do it if you want to - no one need know.
I am absolutely not going to vote Tory, no chance after their catastrophic failure on immigration (and much else), but it is human nature to root for the underdog, and bullying is an unpleasant spectacle, always
Sunak is the underdog here, and the relentless mockery of him is acquiring a flavour of bullying. Give the poor guy a break
Edit to add: I felt the same about Kinnock. All the Welsh windbag/lightbulb stuff became crass and tedious, I didn't like it
Just seen the results of our first poll of the campaign! 👀
Follow @OpiniumResearch and @ObserverUK for the first of (at least) 7 polls we'll be conducting throughout the campaign - tables released tomorrow evening. #GE24
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
I thought he was a pharmacist, and they owned their own pharmacy.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Yes, it's pissing me off too.
The guy's alright.
He may be "alright" but that isn't the point and nor are the ludicrous photo opportunities.
The point is he leads the Government - he is the one who is held accountable for the actions of the Government elected in 2019 and the one who should be able to answer the questions and concerns people have about whether this Government deserves re-election based on its record.
IF people think their lot has deteriorated and society is worse off than it was in December 2019, they may decide to look at alternatives. The Prime Minister has to take the criticism and answer the statistical evidence - politics is "rough trade" as someone once said and sometimes you have to take the rough with the jagged in that job.
He's going to get the criticism, but nobody's going to remember the Blacks Swans of the last Prliament. Frankly I think Starmer would have locked us up longer and bankrupted us sooner. Sunak certainly made his mistakes but I see nothing that says Starmer would have done better.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
But if you were a northerner.
"Nobody in my time used their titles"
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
I think news lawyers will have checked anything that is written about a former DPP to be honest.
They are of course not infallible.
There, to defend I'd be arguing that the hyphen is like a comma, and that it is "the failure to prosecute the paedophile" that he doesn't brag about, but that he does take responsibility for it as happening when he was the boss, 'as it clearly says in the paragraph'.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Alison Levitt QC found that had police and prosecutors "taken a different approach" prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three victims.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
If you google it the kind of salary for pharmacy is around the £50K mark as far as I can see.
May be entirely different if it is your pharmacy shop, but that is not absolute masses to be honest. GP is twice that I reckon.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
I thought he was a pharmacist, and they owned their own pharmacy.
I wonder where the Biden speech was going. Sounds like a rhetorical build up to encouraging voting, but the clip is foreshortened.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump:
John O’Donnell, former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino in Atlantic City, quoted Trump’s criticism of a Black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.” Trump later said in a 1997 Playboy interview that “the stuff O’Donnell wrote about me is probably true.”
There are countless other examples of Trump's racism which are not hard to find. Clearly saying the the right things in that clip, you know and I know that Trump doesn't mean them. He's a dyed-in-the-wool racist and always has been.
Trump has a better message and a better record in government on inflation and immigration. Biden could be in trouble. The Democrats better hope one of these trials works out for them.
But you know who had the best record on immigration and the Southern border?
Barack Obama.
During Obama's Presidency, Southern Border crossings fell to their lowest level in thirty years, before doubling under Trump, and increasing a further 50% under Biden.
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I cant criticise now. My granddaughter will be in the same class as Wilfred so Im bound to bump in to him at some stage.
I am actually attending an event where Boris Johnson is also in attendance next month.
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Couldnt you just go for the laughs ? You could post a selfie of you and the Donald as your one picture.
I have an amusing Chump LOLCAT, but you'll all have to wait until one minute past midnight.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
I thought he was a pharmacist, and they owned their own pharmacy.
Dad was a GP, mum owned a retail pharmacy and later worked for the Health Authority as a pharmacist.
So a solid double income, but a similar couple now probably couldn't pay for WinCo fees.
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I cant criticise now. My granddaughter will be in the same class as Wilfred so Im bound to bump in to him at some stage.
I am actually attending an event where Boris Johnson is also in attendance next month.
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Couldnt you just go for the laughs ? You could post a selfie of you and the Donald as your one picture.
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
I thought he was a pharmacist, and they owned their own pharmacy.
Dad was a GP, mum owned a retail pharmacy and later worked for the Health Authority as a pharmacist.
So a solid double income, but a similar couple now probably couldn't pay for WinCo fees.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Rishi does not plan his own campaign tours. We have to question the competence of the CCHQ campaign team. They are the ones making these unforced errors, and we are only two days in.
I have commented before, but there is I think a dysfunction in the Tory media operation I have never seen in a major party before. This has been going on for some time. Even in the nadir of the Major or Brown years the party machines could be relied upon to do their best.
Since Truss I think there has been a fatalism in the Tory ranks that has just meant that no-one’s hearts are really in it anymore. That is fascinating, because there are usually some good, competent people sat behind the desks at party HQ who have the zeal and the passion to give a good innings. Where are those people now?
It may be that the constant leadership changes haven’t helped.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
Hasn't Johnson just committed libel in the Mail re Jimmy Saville and SKS?
He always brags about his time as head of Crown Prosecution Service, and how he takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch – except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar, Jimmy Savile. Just, as they say, sayin'...
That looks to be arguably just the safe side of the line, and obfuscated enough, to be technically defensible as a description.
Alison Levitt QC found that had police and prosecutors "taken a different approach" prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three victims.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
I thought he was a pharmacist, and they owned their own pharmacy.
According to Wiki his father was a GP, his mother was a pharmacist who owned her own pharmacy.
Vennells is going to end up doing the itv jungle show isn't she?
Having her agent's letters begging for a slot ignored I would think
She said today she "loved the Post Office." So bonkers it's probably true. There's a good piece of cod therapy advice which one quite often sees which is "never love anything that is incapable of loving you back". The problem with most forms of religion boils down to breach of this rule
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Is that George Osborne, son of Felicity Alexandra Loxton-Peacock and Sir Peter Osborne, 17th Baronet, co-founder of the firm of fabric and wallpaper designers Osborne & Little?
For all of us further down the social ladder, it's hard to imagine quite how exponential it gets at the very very top.
I'm really not a socialist, but this strikes me as a bad way to organise a country.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
But if you were a northerner.
"Nobody in my time used their titles"
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
I’ve never seen anything in Sunak’s behaviour where he is trying to ape those types. Now he might have turned up in new wellies but frankly he probably didn’t have a pair when he was in the city and California and so William hague told him to buy a pair. All old wellies start as new wellies, even the actual Wellingtons - they were new money once.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
The Tories were only too happy to condemn Mr Miliband for eating a bacon sandwich, though, so they can't very well complain now.
One difference with that was Team Miliband actually set that PR shot up to show how much of a normal bloke he was and he flopped it. But yes it the criticism was OTT. It is a sign of how unserious our media have become. As we found out during COVID most of them can't even add 2 + 2, but spend their lives on the tw@tter machine reposting total nonsense. It just gets worse and worse, that literally all they talk about.
As I said previous thread, the ICJ ruling on Israel, Israel's response, there are serious questions to ask Sunak and Starmer, what you going to do, still send arms?
The ICJ ruling is a bloody disgrace, especially when it's not tied to a release of the hostages.
Israel, who are not a party to the ICJ, are well within their rights to give an Arkell v Pressdram response to the ruling.
It might be, but it does raise tricky questions for the likes of US and UK politicians. Its a serious question to ask them, Israel has signalled already they will continue on, what is your position, why, do you have your own redlines, etc. Its grown up proper stuff that needs addressing.
The US quite rightly is not a party to the ICJ, like Israel.
After today's despicable ruling, I would support us quitting such a twisted institution too.
My personal red line would be the unconditional release of all Israeli hostages taken last year, the unconditional surrender and disarmament of Hamas, and for Hamas to face justice for what they have done.
When that happens, then I would support the war ending. Until then, Israel has the right to self defence and if Hamas are in Rafah then they should be targeted there until they surrender unconditionally. Anyone who denies Israel the right to self defence is wrong, and that includes it seems the ICJ.
As Nelson Mandela who understood apartheid better than anyone said in 1977
"We Know Too well That Our Freedom Is Incomplete Without the Freedom of the Palestinians"
Would love to know what the ANC would think, and how they would react, to a separatist movement in SA. Zulus demanding their historic lands back in a free state. I’m sure they will hand them over.
But we're not talking about separatism, are we? The matter at hand concerns Palestinians living in Gaza, currently under an occupying power.
So is the closer analogue not Namibia? And there, South Africa disengaged in 1990 - before the ANC came to power, but I don't think they've ever showed any regrets over letting it go, let alone wanting to take it back.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
It is a great credit to the United Kingdom that being first/second generation kids/grandchildren of immigrants to the UK Sunak and I became part of the elite.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Rishi does not plan his own campaign tours. We have to question the competence of the CCHQ campaign team. They are the ones making these unforced errors, and we are only two days in.
Something that strikes me about this campaign. This is Theresa May 2017 redux. OK we are only two days in but so far the Cabinet has been locked in a cupboard. All we've seen is Rishi. What price can we get on "strong and stable"?
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
It is a great credit to the United Kingdom that being first/second generation kids/grandchildren of immigrants to the UK Sunak and I became part of the elite.
For us younger folks, the last bastions of the Tory Party we first got to really know when we were younger (and going through various parts of the school system) have all but now gone.
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I cant criticise now. My granddaughter will be in the same class as Wilfred so Im bound to bump in to him at some stage.
I am actually attending an event where Boris Johnson is also in attendance next month.
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Couldnt you just go for the laughs ? You could post a selfie of you and the Donald as your one picture.
See the price for a photo?
$25,000 per photo.
Isn’t Kimberly Guilfoyle the nutty shouty one who told us the best was yet to come?
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Indeed. "He buys his own furniture" is surely the most withering putdown of that era, and explains entirely the difference between being around them - and maybe if you're lucky even being as rich as them - but never quite being one of them.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Well, I’m a retired pharmacist, son of a female pharmacist (and pharmacy owner) and I started in community pharmacy and then went into hospital. I don’t think we were ever in the top 2-5% but could be described as comfortable. And I’d agree about Hospital pharmacy not being as financially rewarding, but being more interesting than Community.
I 've never known an election (except perhaps 2017) when we have all basically known the result but the magnitude of the victory could be anything from marginal to earthquake-sized.
Gove is one of those politicians who could have contributed so much but has ended up achieving little or nothing positive.
If I was Labour I wouldn't go anywhere near Sunak being "priviledged / posh", because he isn't. Now out of touch certainly, but his backstory is one that should not be sneered at.
Instead I would have Starmer say look where I came from and got to, look where Rishi came from and got to, when the system worked so that hard working families, hard working individuals could rise up the ladder, we need more of this, more opportunities, etc etc etc, and here is my plan.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
If you google it the kind of salary for pharmacy is around the £50K mark as far as I can see.
May be entirely different if it is your pharmacy shop, but that is not absolute masses to be honest. GP is twice that I reckon.
That would be the employed pharmacist, and TBF £50k is ~50% above average salary now. His mum owned Sunak Pharmacy, and his dad was a GP.
In todays terms, that's a household income of ~£150-200k or a bit more gross. Plus they are secure incomes.
It's the classic immigrant pattern if you can - go for the professions, and work hard to build a base for your family.
My Iraqi neighbour's family did the same thing - they came here in the 1950s, and it was one son the architect, one son the accountant, one son the Doctor, all in different European countries as it happens.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
But if you were a northerner.
"Nobody in my time used their titles"
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
I’ve never seen anything in Sunak’s behaviour where he is trying to ape those types. Now he might have turned up in new wellies but frankly he probably didn’t have a pair when he was in the city and California and so William hague told him to buy a pair. All old wellies start as new wellies, even the actual Wellingtons - they were new money once.
Not how he's perceived in his constituency, but I also concede that could be a city vs country thing.
Boris Johnson reprises his attacks on Starmer's DPP record in his new Mail column:
"He takes responsibility for everything that took place on his watch - except of course for the failure to prosecute the paedophile, necrophiliac and BBC superstar Jimmy Savile."
Johnson is one of the main reasons the Torys deserve to lose, just a shame that if they do go down , he wont be at the helm
BoJo can be found down in the bilge . . . or up on the poop deck.
Most likely, on some rich (Ruski?) fucker's mega-yacht. conveniently anchored off Mr. Evil's evil-lair on the sun-kissed shores of the Dominican Republic.
I 've never known an election (except perhaps 2017) when we have all basically known the result but the magnitude of the victory could be anything from marginal to earthquake-sized.
Gove is one of those politicians who could have contributed so much but has ended up achieving little or nothing positive.
Responsible for my log burner wood delivery man having to lug 28 bags up the garden path each time rather than my usual 10 (and me having to find storage).
I 've never known an election (except perhaps 2017) when we have all basically known the result but the magnitude of the victory could be anything from marginal to earthquake-sized.
Gove is one of those politicians who could have contributed so much but has ended up achieving little or nothing positive.
In fairness his good work at justice was quickly undone by that clown Grayling.
For us younger folks, the last bastions of the Tory Party we first got to really know when we were younger (and going through various parts of the school system) have all but now gone.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
It is a great credit to the United Kingdom that being first/second generation kids/grandchildren of immigrants to the UK Sunak and I became part of the elite.
Stretching elite there, Sunak hasn’t edited PB.
My proudest moment in life is regularly being called a toff.
Conversation with some friends
Friend 1: I've forget how much of an elitist toff you are?
Me: Elitist toff? You really cannot do that to do the English language.
Friend 2 (to me): You're only reinforcing her point
Me: I am the grandson of humble immigrants to the UK, how on earth can I be a toff?
Friend 1: Fine, you're a Tory twat, you cannot deny that can you?
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
But if you were a northerner.
"Nobody in my time used their titles"
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
Just not the case. The typical parental job was GP, solicitor, provincial stockbroker. Rishi was bang on the median.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
Can you provide some comment if you're just going to copy and paste Tweets? I know I do it but I also provide a question or some thought on it. You are just a Twitter feed and it's starting to grate.
(If PB would prefer I didn't post Tweets with comment I will happily stop - but I like to reference what I am talking about.)
Reposting tweets can be interesting if they provide new information or a story e.g. I think this story over Sunak appearing to mislead the campaigner over the Manchester bombing is interesting. What we don't need then is 20 more tweets that are basically saying the same thing, what a knobhead, liar, etc, same as 20 more tweets from journalists all circle jerking about Sunak photoed near an exit sign on a plane (of all places). GE campaigns are busy and fast moving, there is already plenty of signal and ridiculous amount of noise.
Those who post tweets should also post the link to the original so those of us who care can see it with the photo and in context.
It's such a great image I'm going to use my quota to day to post it:
It is an amazing image - what were the chances of managing to get a photo of someone on a plane with an exit sign. Must be terrible planning by the Tories to use a plane with exit signs. Madness.
Next some genius journo will manage to get a photo of Rishi somewhere where there is a sign for loos and we can giggle about him going down the pan.
Luckily Sir Keir avoids such places with exits and bogs because his genius campaign team.
It's getting fucking tedious already
It's also making me feel sorry for Sunak. He's doing his best, he's not very good at basic politics, he got publicly humiliated during his stupid Downing St speech. Enough. He's going to lose. It really does begin to feel like bullying, especially as his such a tiny tot of a man
Rishi does not plan his own campaign tours. We have to question the competence of the CCHQ campaign team. They are the ones making these unforced errors, and we are only two days in.
Something that strikes me about this campaign. This is Theresa May 2017 redux. OK we are only two days in but so far the Cabinet has been locked in a cupboard. All we've seen is Rishi. What price can we get on "strong and stable"?
True but then I couldn't tell you a single thing Raab, Patel or Javid did in 2019, it doesn't stick in the memory. I mean of cabinet stuff I can recall Brown's ice cream with Blair and Prezzas right hook
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
If Jacob Rees-Mogg loses on an election night I will be covering that with a thread headlined 'Tory gain.'
Its worth remembering that Sunak didn't go to Winchester until 6th form. He went to a much lesser (and cheaper school) until then. His parents are on film saying they saved everything to make the fees for his two years at Winchester.
I also wonder how going into such an environment from his background and at 16, rather than at 5 or 11 year olds, effected him. He does come across as the geeky try hard kid who is somewhat uncomfortable both around normal people and proper poshos, in a way for instance Cameron didn't.
For us younger folks, the last bastions of the Tory Party we first got to really know when we were younger (and going through various parts of the school system) have all but now gone.
You’re making me feel old…
Mr Memory @AmIRightSir · 10h Sir John Redwood was the last remaining member of John Major's Cabinet in the Commons
Starmer would be the most dangerous PM since the 1970s - says Boris Johnson
Showing that Johnson would have run a much more effective campaign than Sunak.
Nah, the campaign would have been about Boris Johnson's parties.
Oh and lying about putting about known sexual predator in a position of authority.
There's a reason why Boris Johnson's ratings at the end were as bad as Corbyn's at his worst.
I still think Boris Johnson is an asset to the campaign.
If he gets off his arse.
Though hardly a Johnsonian, can see that what you say may be true, depending on how & where BoJo might be deployed, to which group(s) of targeted voters.
Similar to Bill Clinton for the Democrats . . . though THAT window of opportunity has been shrinking over time.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
The Tories were only too happy to condemn Mr Miliband for eating a bacon sandwich, though, so they can't very well complain now.
One difference with that was Team Miliband actually set that PR shot up to show how much of a normal bloke he was and he flopped it. But yes it the criticism was OTT. It is a sign of how unserious our media have become. As we found out during COVID most of them can't even add 2 + 2, but spend their lives on the tw@tter machine reposting total nonsense. It just gets worse and worse, that literally all they talk about.
As I said previous thread, the ICJ ruling on Israel, Israel's response, there are serious questions to ask Sunak and Starmer, what you going to do, still send arms?
The ICJ ruling is a bloody disgrace, especially when it's not tied to a release of the hostages.
Israel, who are not a party to the ICJ, are well within their rights to give an Arkell v Pressdram response to the ruling.
It might be, but it does raise tricky questions for the likes of US and UK politicians. Its a serious question to ask them, Israel has signalled already they will continue on, what is your position, why, do you have your own redlines, etc. Its grown up proper stuff that needs addressing.
The US quite rightly is not a party to the ICJ, like Israel.
After today's despicable ruling, I would support us quitting such a twisted institution too.
My personal red line would be the unconditional release of all Israeli hostages taken last year, the unconditional surrender and disarmament of Hamas, and for Hamas to face justice for what they have done.
When that happens, then I would support the war ending. Until then, Israel has the right to self defence and if Hamas are in Rafah then they should be targeted there until they surrender unconditionally. Anyone who denies Israel the right to self defence is wrong, and that includes it seems the ICJ.
As Nelson Mandela who understood apartheid better than anyone said in 1977
"We Know Too well That Our Freedom Is Incomplete Without the Freedom of the Palestinians"
Would love to know what the ANC would think, and how they would react, to a separatist movement in SA. Zulus demanding their historic lands back in a free state. I’m sure they will hand them over.
But we're not talking about separatism, are we? The matter at hand concerns Palestinians living in Gaza, currently under an occupying power.
So is the closer analogue not Namibia? And there, South Africa disengaged in 1990 - before the ANC came to power, but I don't think they've ever showed any regrets over letting it go, let alone wanting to take it back.
Was thinking along the lines that SA, like Israel/Palestine, is a land with a long history containing various groups who at various times have controlled the region through war and conquest. Then under colonial control and when colonial control was surrendered it was to one of the groups who lived there, to the annoyance of the others.
For Palestine/Judea/Israel read South Africa. If the people who’ve ended up in control where it could be argued others have ancient rights to sovereignty or power were told that actually you have to allow another group to have a separate state carved out of what you see as yours will be difficult - again, Israel and the AnC.
The Zulus have as much right as the Palestinians to demand a separate state but if they did, the ANC would not be so keen on this happening and would be slightly miffed at international legal judgements being foisted on them by outsiders I guess.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
Well, I’m a retired pharmacist, son of a female pharmacist (and pharmacy owner) and I started in community pharmacy and then went into hospital. I don’t think we were ever in the top 2-5% but could be described as comfortable. And I’d agree about Hospital pharmacy not being as financially rewarding, but being more interesting than Community.
I'll admit it was quite the experience. All male.
One with that famous Sam Fox poster facing his window; one on the top floor with a chamber pot under the bed ("I did a number two in it .... once"), and so on ... all in a small terraced house in BD7 where it was either students or houses with random bricks picked out in the colours of the Pakistan flag.
Interestingly there was an Ahmadiyya presence in the area.
Gove standing down - that's a shame, he was my pick for 2024's Portillo moment.
Who’s your pick now ?
Hunt maybe, except my impression is that the party hates him more than the country.
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
Mordaunt would lose her seat on current polling and is the most likely top leadership contender to lose. Braverman and Badenoch’s seats are safer.
Though I do wonder if Penny might cling on against all odds as I suspect she has quite a good personal vote.
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Wasn’t his Dad a GP?
When I was at University in the late 1980s, the place was filled with pharmacists (I shared a house with four of them).
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
From what I have read Sunak's parents are a lot like mine.
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, Sunak is actually quite exemplary. His parents slaved away to give him a great start, he has clearly worked bloody hard to get where he is
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
Sunak's big handicap is that his life experiences has nothing in common with those of the great mass of the population. This comes through time and time again (£1,000 bet; comments on working-class; asking a homeless man if he works in business; asking Welsh voters if they are looking forward to Euros; etc.)
Seriously, though. His handlers really, *really* hate him, don’t they?
(picture goes here)
This is getting rather pathetic. There are exit signs everywhere on a plane. Somebody takes a photo on their iphone its now a PR disaster. If Team Sunak was running around trying to cover up every exit sign or man-handling any journo who tries to take a snap, the press would be saying look how thin skinned he is.
Yes. It's less a sign of how rubbish Sunak or his campaign team are, but if how deeply unpopular he is that journos are scrabbling around to find/invent examples of him being crap.
Unless there comes to be a bit more substance to it I think it will be a game they will tire of pretty soon.
I think we can rely on Sunak to supply the substance. He is genuinely the guy in the video bragging about how he knew some working, well actually lower middle, class chaps at Oxford, huzzah. There's a lot of rich comedy to come.
With all due respect, Sunak doesn't really come from money. His parents owned a pharmacy and worked - one might imagine - 18 hour days to pay for their son to go to Winchester.
He went from there to Oxford to a Hedge Fund to Parliament. And I'm sure the connections he made on the way helped, but he isn't from some uber wealthy family or from old or new money.
Sunak strikes me as the typical upper middle class kid trying to fit in at a school full of poshos and being a chronic overachiever yet also carrying a chip on his shoulder the rest of his life, about those who had it all handed it all to them on a plate. And God knows, I know, because I'm from the same background.
The awkwardness, the sense of displacement, never quite leaves you. Existing in their world but never quite being one of them.
I have it on good authority from his neighbours he was laughed at when he showed up at his constituency in brand new wellies and barbour and Landie, but looking like all the gear and no idea. We all know the type. It took me years to feel comfortable with myself - Sunak strikes me as the sort who's 40-odd years old and has *still* not learned to feel comfortable with himself.
This is the George Osborne story too, isn't it? Looked down on, bullied to the point of having to change his name, always a bit self-conscious about it, found success in his 20s and headed for the top.
But Osborne recognised the problem. He knew in 2005 that he'd not be the next Tory PM. And, sure, there was a point in the middle of the last decade where probably he began to think "maybe, just maybe...", but he'd had the chance to grow in to himself a bit more by then - and, besides, Brexit scuppered it.
It can't be that uncommon, certainly not in Tory circles - but what sets Rishi apart is, as you say, that he hasn't learned to overcome it. Why not?
The most obvious answer is simply that he was promoted too far, too soon.
If he'd stayed Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Boris, and then became Chancellor under whoever happened to succeed him, he'd now be in pole position to become leader after the election. And he would almost certainly have done a better job of it than he's made of being PM.
So... it's the Dom Cummings / Sajid Javid spat that we should blame for how things have ended up?
Winchester is resolutely middle class and majors in intellectual not social snobbery
Yup, nobody really gave a shit if you were titled, old money, son of a dictator, assisted places. If you were relatively thick you got a hard time and if you were an obnoxious prick you got a hard time. Nobody in my time used their titles and would be mortified if it was brought up.
But if you were a northerner.
"Nobody in my time used their titles"
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
Just not the case. The typical parental job was GP, solicitor, provincial stockbroker. Rishi was bang on the median.
I will take your word for it.
There is a sense of awkwardness about him that I just ascribed to 'teenage years spent around people posher than he was' which, as I say, I recognise in myself.
In which case he still has that awkwardness about him, it just comes from somewhere else.
Comments
For some reason I was invited to a fundraiser event in London for Trump hosted by Holly Valance.
I was tempted to go but some of the Trump kids are there.
Funny thing is it is a £10,000 fee to attend this event but it would be free for me as the money goes to Trump's election funds and non Yanks cannot donate.
Unless you go in peak summer only Matera will have significant tourists. even in peak summer you will be practically the only foreigners in Taranto
It's a really forgotten corner of Italy. Sure, it ain't Tuscany, there are plenty of bleak bits of countryside and chunks of nasty industry, but the gems are absolute gems, and the coast is often majestic - and it is very authentically Italian, and good value, and the food is commonly exceptional
I’ve no doubt if there’d been firm evidence Savile would have been prosecuted
I remember an interview with A seventies singer about it when he said people had heard stuff but there were no facts.
SKS does not deserve this cheap shot on his integrity.
They are of course not infallible.
Would retain most seats on that in London
But if you were a northerner.
I thought the argument was that Starmer never saw the evidence.
The point is he leads the Government - he is the one who is held accountable for the actions of the Government elected in 2019 and the one who should be able to answer the questions and concerns people have about whether this Government deserves re-election based on its record.
IF people think their lot has deteriorated and society is worse off than it was in December 2019, they may decide to look at alternatives. The Prime Minister has to take the criticism and answer the statistical evidence - politics is "rough trade" as someone once said and sometimes you have to take the rough with the jagged in that job.
Leaving aside the lavatorial humour about medical devices, and the skepticism about the @Foxy 's of this world ("pill rollers"), it was roughly "Community Pharmacy to make money, Hospital Pharmacy not to be bored".
Rishi's family would not be filthy rich, but they would be top 2-5% imo.
I'm sure they bought their own furniture.
The Election isn't over. THE Tories WILL lose but imho there may be no.majority. Imagine Starmer in the hands of say 20.LD MPs... what fun.
Ows about that then !
Sunak is the underdog here, and the relentless mockery of him is acquiring a flavour of bullying. Give the poor guy a break
Edit to add: I felt the same about Kinnock. All the Welsh windbag/lightbulb stuff became crass and tedious, I didn't like it
https://x.com/bbclaurak/status/1794065605269569977
You save and save to ensure your kids and their kids have the best starting with education.
Debt, other than a mortgage, is the eighth deadliest sin.
Sunak and I were also taught the same thing, work hard and apply yourself and you'll be a success in everything you do.
For me that was true except when it comes to marriage, for Sunak it was true up and until he became PM.
He's no slacker like Boris Johnson.
Yes, but some people in your year had them. And if you didn't, and you weren't brought up in that environment, you will always be a bit of an outgroup/other. The sense of otherworldliness for a son of an immigrant pharmacist would be palpable. And it shows in Rishi today. The joys of the hidden class signifiers that still exist in our society today.
Rishi's problem - at least so I'm told by some of his neighbours who I know from my younger days - is that he shows up trying to be a bit what he's not. Whereas Osborne learned you could be adjacent to those types, and respected by them, without trying to pretend to be one.
Cf Tom Wambsgans in Succession. Rishi is exactly Season 1 Tom.
Alison Levitt QC found that had police and prosecutors "taken a different approach" prosecutions could have been possible in relation to three victims.
DPP Keir Starmer has apologised.
May be entirely different if it is your pharmacy shop, but that is not absolute masses to be honest. GP is twice that I reckon.
Doing two jobs to pay for school fees.
Barack Obama.
During Obama's Presidency, Southern Border crossings fell to their lowest level in thirty years, before doubling under Trump, and increasing a further 50% under Biden.
So a solid double income, but a similar couple now probably couldn't pay for WinCo fees.
$25,000 per photo.
Since Truss I think there has been a fatalism in the Tory ranks that has just meant that no-one’s hearts are really in it anymore. That is fascinating, because there are usually some good, competent people sat behind the desks at party HQ who have the zeal and the passion to give a good innings. Where are those people now?
It may be that the constant leadership changes haven’t helped.
He's not from old money, he's not got a title, he's the product of one family doing its very best for their kids. His backstory is, in fact, admirable - and he's done it with brown skin in a largely white country. Enough of the sneering
I'm still not gonna vote for him, but I will defend him from the sneerers
She said today she "loved the Post Office." So bonkers it's probably true. There's a good piece of cod therapy advice which one quite often sees which is "never love anything that is incapable of loving you back". The problem with most forms of religion boils down to breach of this rule
I'm really not a socialist, but this strikes me as a bad way to organise a country.
Gove standing down
So is the closer analogue not Namibia? And there, South Africa disengaged in 1990 - before the ANC came to power, but I don't think they've ever showed any regrets over letting it go, let alone wanting to take it back.
I mean, better not to be a bed blocker, better to get a brightish youngish thing in now than have to wait until 2028...
But blimey. When and with who does this end?
That is the final capitulation of the last 14 years.
It's over.
Can we just move Starmer in this weekend?
Arse.
For us younger folks, the last bastions of the Tory Party we first got to really know when we were younger (and going through various parts of the school system) have all but now gone.
I remember asking my first year uni girlfriend if she'd like to come home with me that summer, as she was having a spat with her parents. "Don't worry, I'll be in the east wing and I doubt I'll even see them," came the droll reply. So somewhat larger than the McMansion I grew up in (with furniture my parents bought, obviously).
But these are again the narcissisms of small differences. One group of quite rich people with money and wealth from industry, vs another group of very rich people often with land and titles.
The top 0.1% vs the top 1% or so, all trying to establish a pecking order.
Meanwhile all of them are getting elected to the top jobs in the country, crushing the rights of LGBTQ people, eliminating disabled benefits if you can't dance to the right tune to get a sick note, and selling off billion dollar PPE contracts to your mates in the Dependencies.
@JAHeale
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2m
Massive news: Gove quits
https://x.com/JAHeale/status/1794067650689081531
I don’t think we were ever in the top 2-5% but could be described as comfortable.
And I’d agree about Hospital pharmacy not being as financially rewarding, but being more interesting than Community.
Is Damian Hinds standing again in Hampshire? He was my MP for a while
It’s the little people who pay the price. Not people like Vennels and co.
Gove is one of those politicians who could have contributed so much but has ended up achieving little or nothing positive.
Instead I would have Starmer say look where I came from and got to, look where Rishi came from and got to, when the system worked so that hard working families, hard working individuals could rise up the ladder, we need more of this, more opportunities, etc etc etc, and here is my plan.
In todays terms, that's a household income of ~£150-200k or a bit more gross. Plus they are secure incomes.
It's the classic immigrant pattern if you can - go for the professions, and work hard to build a base for your family.
My Iraqi neighbour's family did the same thing - they came here in the 1950s, and it was one son the architect, one son the accountant, one son the Doctor, all in different European countries as it happens.
Most likely, on some rich (Ruski?) fucker's mega-yacht. conveniently anchored off Mr. Evil's evil-lair on the sun-kissed shores of the Dominican Republic.
Pointless and stupid meaningless eco signalling.
I so wanted him gone.
Conversation with some friends
Friend 1: I've forget how much of an elitist toff you are?
Me: Elitist toff? You really cannot do that to do the English language.
Friend 2 (to me): You're only reinforcing her point
Me: I am the grandson of humble immigrants to the UK, how on earth can I be a toff?
Friend 1: Fine, you're a Tory twat, you cannot deny that can you?
Braverman if it happens, but I suspect that she's safe, as are Patel and Badenoch.
Symbolically, JRM. He was never important, but he was always visible. And like Portillo, it might be that nothing becomes his political career like his leaving it.
I also wonder how going into such an environment from his background and at 16, rather than at 5 or 11 year olds, effected him. He does come across as the geeky try hard kid who is somewhat uncomfortable both around normal people and proper poshos, in a way for instance Cameron didn't.
@AmIRightSir
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10h
Sir John Redwood was the last remaining member of John Major's Cabinet in the Commons
Similar to Bill Clinton for the Democrats . . . though THAT window of opportunity has been shrinking over time.
Same likely to happen to Boris Johnson?
For Palestine/Judea/Israel read South Africa. If the people who’ve ended up in control where it could be argued others have ancient rights to sovereignty or power were told that actually you have to allow another group to have a separate state carved out of what you see as yours will be difficult - again, Israel and the AnC.
The Zulus have as much right as the Palestinians to demand a separate state but if they did, the ANC would not be so keen on this happening and would be slightly miffed at international legal judgements being foisted on them by outsiders I guess.
One with that famous Sam Fox poster facing his window; one on the top floor with a chamber pot under the bed ("I did a number two in it .... once"), and so on ... all in a small terraced house in BD7 where it was either students or houses with random bricks picked out in the colours of the Pakistan flag.
Interestingly there was an Ahmadiyya presence in the area.
Though I do wonder if Penny might cling on against all odds as I suspect she has quite a good personal vote.
There is a sense of awkwardness about him that I just ascribed to 'teenage years spent around people posher than he was' which, as I say, I recognise in myself.
In which case he still has that awkwardness about him, it just comes from somewhere else.
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