What people can't stand is being lied to or taken for fools.
No-one can accuse UKIP of that.
Oh yes they can. UKIP is not a party of change - just a party of changed labels.
Unusually Marquee Mark, I disagree with you on this one. I think UKIP is a party of change. A change more profound than Westminster can compute. A change they fear with all their being. UKIP want to blow away the tidy bien-pensant consensus altogether. They're unready, chaotic, ill-disciplined, immature, incoherent at times, and all the rest. Yes. But there can be no doubt they don't come to join in. They come to wash away. That's why so many love them.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
I use a combination of 2. Kaspesrsky - paid for, and the free Spybot Search and Destroy. I'm only a home user though.
Sometimes our leaders have to lead. They show a way ahead that the public would ordinarily baulk at. Cameron has been a leader on gay marriage, something which I strongly expect to be a huge shrug of the shoulders within 5 years, when people will wonder what all the fuss was about. The linkage of foreign aid to set % of GDP is heavily unpopular, but we are better as a nation for making that contribution (even though we may have legitimate qualms about how some of it is spent).
Well, there's democracy disposed of in one pithy paragraph. Government by clique.
It's too early in the morning to start a food fight, but borrowing money to just give it away to foreigners is absurd. If Cameron and his liberal clique care so much about poverty, they can give their own money away. I think it is Cameron just paying his buddies who work for foreign aid charities on £50k a year.
It's not "giving it away"
It's an attempt to fix the causes of, e.g. mass migration, rather than just address the symptoms when they arrive on our doorsteps
What people can't stand is being lied to or taken for fools.
No-one can accuse UKIP of that.
Oh yes they can. UKIP is not a party of change - just a party of changed labels.
Really? So you think leaving the EU is not a change? It's a thought I suppose but I doubt you will find many who agree with you.
Oh come on, UKIP does't want OUT of the EU - if it truly did, it would go the route of the earliest referendum and campaign for that. That is, be supporting the Conservative Party's approach. Instead, they want to put in place a Labour Govt. that will give no choice on getting out. Not now, not ever.
There is an intellectual vacuum at the heart of UKIP that does indeed take the voters for fools.
One of the comments below that Janet Daley article.
" Unless you fall into one of the following categories Labour no longer represents your interests in any way: public sector workers, trade unionists, those in receipt of benefits, single mothers on low or no incomes, recently settled immigrants, the low paid and part-time workers receiving credits. For the rest of us, they have nothing what so ever to offer other than their poisonous and divisive ideologically motivated politics of envy, and ever higher taxes to service their burgeoning client base and vested interest groups. Labour is an anachronistic party now out of it's time, pitifully out of touch with the electorate and the climate of public opinion; which it holds in utter contempt. Economically illiterate, it has acknowledged its complicity in little, apologised for less, and promises more of the same if it get back into office in 2015
This is the trouble. It is a view particularly common in, though not confined to, the Conservative Party. The other side's voters don't count. They are illegitimate. They can be ignored. People only vote Labour because they've been bribed. UKIP voters are fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. We know best.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
We use Avira plus some physical barriers to our hard-drives - major problem in using several antivirus is that some tend to fight each other and identify the rival software as a virus. CNET website has some good advice for this.
We also eliminate non-essential emails and temp-files daily.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
http://www.av-test.org/ are usual considered the best independent measure of AV software. I think their recommendation across all PC platforms at the moment is Bitdefender Internet Security 2014/5, which looks quite attractive at £50 for a 3 PC license.
Though I doubt your arse is Scottish, it's right wing definitely, and sympatico with the Nazi-saluting, Union flag waving element of 'The People' almost certainly.
So Cameron's big speech is expected in the next few days (at least according to the DT). What are the chances another pigdog will surface in the immediate aftermath spoiling it for us Tories?
I have a new special insult prepared for such an eventuality.
It's hyena, isn't it
has to have "scurvy" in there somewhere though
"scurvy, mealy-mouthed hyena" has a certain je ne said quoi about it, though!
Strategically inept heir to Hannibal poisonous rat-snake was an early contender for the next traitorous pig dog
Point-and-laugh at the career-ending strategically inept heir to Hannibal poisonous rat snake....
There have been several posts on here this morning repeating the mantra that every Labour government has left office leaving higher unemployment . Leaving aside the fact that that was true in 1951 only if you ignore the vast number of servicemen awaiting demobilisation in 1945 , it also conveniently ignores that every Conservative government has also left office leaving higher unemployment than when it took office .
What people can't stand is being lied to or taken for fools.
No-one can accuse UKIP of that.
Oh yes they can. UKIP is not a party of change - just a party of changed labels.
Really? So you think leaving the EU is not a change? It's a thought I suppose but I doubt you will find many who agree with you.
Oh come on, UKIP does't want OUT of the EU - if it truly did, it would go the route of the earliest referendum and campaign for that. That is, be supporting the Conservative Party's approach. Instead, they want to put in place a Labour Govt. that will give no choice on getting out. Not now, not ever.
There is an intellectual vacuum at the heart of UKIP that does indeed take the voters for fools.
Or possibly they think the only difference between Cast Iron Dave and Car Crash Ed is presentation, and a referendum with the government using a figleaf from Brussels as cover for voting IN is really no different to Ed not offering the referendum at all.
There have been several posts on here this morning repeating the mantra that every Labour government has left office leaving higher unemployment . Leaving aside the fact that that was true in 1951 only if you ignore the vast number of servicemen awaiting demobilisation in 1945 , it also conveniently ignores that every Conservative government has also left office leaving higher unemployment than when it took office .
It is one of the silliest statements on PB.
All govts leave office with problems. If there no problems, they wouldn't leave office.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
There's something to be said for just uninstalling these various things and making sure Windows Defender is on. There may be a slightly greater number of things it theoretically might not catch, but that's probably not a big difference compared to the risk of screwing up the license renewal or whatever on one of the laptops and ending up with something that isn't getting updates.
So Cameron's big speech is expected in the next few days (at least according to the DT). What are the chances another pigdog will surface in the immediate aftermath spoiling it for us Tories?
I have a new special insult prepared for such an eventuality.
It's hyena, isn't it
has to have "scurvy" in there somewhere though
"scurvy, mealy-mouthed hyena" has a certain je ne said quoi about it, though!
Strategically inept heir to Hannibal poisonous rat-snake was an early contender for the next traitorous pig dog
Point-and-laugh at the career-ending strategically inept heir to Hannibal poisonous rat snake....
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
I'd be more concerned to use a good email scanning service, since email is the main attack vector with dodgy links and attachments.
What people can't stand is being lied to or taken for fools.
No-one can accuse UKIP of that.
Oh yes they can. UKIP is not a party of change - just a party of changed labels.
Unusually Marquee Mark, I disagree with you on this one. I think UKIP is a party of change. A change more profound than Westminster can compute. A change they fear with all their being. UKIP want to blow away the tidy bien-pensant consensus altogether. They're unready, chaotic, ill-disciplined, immature, incoherent at times, and all the rest. Yes. But there can be no doubt they don't come to join in. They come to wash away. That's why so many love them.
Just look at their record where they have been elected. It's mainly troughing and arguing amongst themselves, when it's not outright criminality. It's not just UKIP, it does happen in other parties but UKIP seem to have a much higher hit rate.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
I'd be more concerned to use a good email scanning service, since email is the main attack vector with dodgy links and attachments.
May be right. I guess we need to know a bit more about his business, but my hunch is that companies tend to over-spend on software (and once they get bigger, also hardware) and under-spend on better security capabilities for the bit between the keyboard and chair.
Congratulations! Hope mother & baby doing well. As Princess Ann observed, its much more fun than being a parent, because you have all the fun, but when things go totally pear shaped you just hand them back.....
It also takes a while for events to sink in - remember people don't react to the result, barely anyone was up at 4 am tuning into Reckless' victory - not even that many PBers...
It is the media coverage after the result which will cause a reaction or so forth.
Event -> Media reaction -> Media echo -> Polling fieldwork -> Published poll
Andrew Boulton in the STimes yesterday was using polyfilla as content in exactly this mould. Some readers thought it sage - I wondered if I could get back the 8 mins of my life after reading it.
It's silly season in Westminster judging by that Daley piece. There is a lot of fuss being made there about a party (UKIP) polling around 14%. As for the Daily Express voodoo poll … argh.
We're entering that time of year when the political hacks want to keep politics in the news but, actually, no-one's very interested. It's the build up to Christmas and we don't want politics and politicians in our faces.
Perfectly put. I was astounded by Mr Parris' article. And his next three weren't much better - just a shade less rudely dismissive.
At least he didn't mention being gay yet again this weekend. That really is tiresome when he talks through that prism again and again. He's not telling us anything new or noteworthy 95% of the time.
One of the comments below that Janet Daley article.
" Unless you fall into one of the following categories Labour no longer represents your interests in any way: public sector workers, trade unionists, those in receipt of benefits, single mothers on low or no incomes, recently settled immigrants, the low paid and part-time workers receiving credits. For the rest of us, they have nothing what so ever to offer other than their poisonous and divisive ideologically motivated politics of envy, and ever higher taxes to service their burgeoning client base and vested interest groups. Labour is an anachronistic party now out of it's time, pitifully out of touch with the electorate and the climate of public opinion; which it holds in utter contempt. Economically illiterate, it has acknowledged its complicity in little, apologised for less, and promises more of the same if it get back into office in 2015
This is the trouble. It is a view particularly common in, though not confined to, the Conservative Party. The other side's voters don't count. They are illegitimate. They can be ignored. People only vote Labour because they've been bribed. UKIP voters are fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists. We know best.
I think they are all as bad as each other, its exactly the same mindset as the LDs not wanting to get anyone involved in the AV referendum if they weren't "right-on" even if they might prove damn useful. Its like the Tories saying "Look how modern we are" whilst kicking the shire tories in the knackers, and especially that load of patronising cobblers from Matthew Paris about Clacton "not our sort of people" in effect humor them but dont listen to them. Labour doesn't want to listen to white van man anymore because they aren't liberals, their views no long count because they dont "get it". The SNP dont listen to anyone that voted "No" or isn't a Scot. UKIP don't listen to anyone that cant see that Europe is the work of the devil, etc etc
You could be forgiven for thinking that most modern political parties dont listen to very much, they largely give the appearance of being a "mutual enjoyment" meeting on a small number of sofas. Epic amounts of groupthink appear to be the order of the day.
And the wimps at the telegraph aren't allowing comments...
I think it's time we had a SeanT vicious identity / culture wars blog over at the DT. I'm sure he will have a few choice observations on Ed's true level of respect. Pretty much all of his blog entries get no comments allowed!
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
Exactly. I thought the greenie AGW thing was the last straw for me. When the debate was at its high point, Gordon and EdM told everybody who disagreed or was sceptical was "unscientific and were Flat Earthers". I was insulted from my horns to my hooves.
I don't think a politician has ever managed to do that - when I wrote to Mr Cameron about my concerns, I got a reply basically saying Thanks, but I believe it - so no dice. That's fair enough - we agreed to disagree. He didn't make me feel like I was a germ.
Indigo is more than half right. The issue for me is not that some politicians do not have convictions. It is that they know their convictions do not resonate with the man in the street and so they resort to base mendacity. Take Miliband. He is a pretty much an unreconstructed champagne Islington socialist, whose default mindset is openly contemptuous of white van man small 'c' conservative England and its instinctive patriotism. So he is forced to embark on a series of ever more contemptible lies to pretend he respects them. What people hate is not so much that he is what he is, but that he pretends he isn't - because he knows how that plays in van land. Ed and the whole Labour party are living a lie day in day out. And it's plain for all to see.
Ditto, to (in my view) a much smaller degree, for Dave and his metropolitan disdain for the small 'c' conservatism of his natural base (eg gay marriage, huskies, overseas aid, blah, blah, blah).
Ditto Clegg to (in my view) a larger degree with his EU-phile open contempt of most British people's desire to govern themselves, as he pretends it would be better for us to let Brussels run everything.
It's not the elitist views they hold which people hate most (although this theme is pretty strong!). It's the lying about it. Brazenly and obviously. Contemptibly.
The thrilling attraction of UKIP for many is that they hold openly non-PC, non-elitist, man-in-the-street views about the key issues of our day - and, even more thrillingly, they do it openly and unashamedly. Love em or hate em they wear their views on their sleeves.
The previous thread and this one just gave me (yet another) strange idea: Why don't we or OHG award an "Ig Poll-bel" prize each year just as there is an established "Ig Nobel" prize for the most peculiar bit of science each year?
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
Miss Plato, it's common practice, alas, to try and define certain opinions as 'wrong'. It's like playing the race card was a few years ago. Call someone a racist and you can ignore everything they say.
Or could, at least. Thankfully, that seems to be changing. A bit less political correctness would've averted a huge amount of evil in Rotherham.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
Really?
So, how come Walmart trades here?
By owning ASDA? They don't trade in their own right, do they?
Well, they decided to enter the UK market by acquisition, but the point is there are zillions of companies from outside the EU who trade here quite happily. Jonathan's point is silly.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
And yet they also trade in the US which is not, as far as I know, a member of the EU.
Successfully, I think as well, which is more than can be said for Tesco!
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
Be fair. One doesn’t often have bedrooms in churches, although people have been known to sleep through sermons.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
This is a tipping point for Scottish Independence and great news for Yes.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
In which case just as appropriate for them to fly the old Russian flag since he is their Patron Saint too
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
Snobbery and condescension in one brief sentence. You are Emily Thornberry and I claim my five pounds. Though, I suppose you might equally be Hyacinth Bucket.
Interesting this morning's Populus has such a large Tory to UKIP switcher level when according to Nigel Farage it was the large number of Labour to UKIP switchers in Strood which handed them the victory on Thursday and the Tory vote remained rock solid in Rochester. I wonder which is correct?
Interesting this morning's Populus has such a large Tory to UKIP switcher level when according to Nigel Farage it was the large number of Labour to UKIP switchers in Strood which handed them the victory on Thursday and the Tory vote remained rock solid in Rochester. I wonder which is correct?
They could both be right: Rochester was a by-election and Labour obviously weren't in the running.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
And yet they also trade in the US which is not, as far as I know, a member of the EU.
Successfully, I think as well, which is more than can be said for Tesco!
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
M&S is much bigger than that, we have 18 stores here in the Philippines. M&S Global has something like 300 stores across 40 countries, and are building 80 in India to open in a couple of years.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
Snobbery and condescension in one brief sentence. You are Emily Thornberry and I claim my five pounds. Though, I suppose you might equally be Hyacinth Bucket.
Looking at how this entirely confected PC Tory outrage has seen the Tories drop in the polls, I wonder if the Thornberry thing tapped into something - neighbours sick of anti-social idiots making their streets unsighty by draping flags over the front of their houses (and windows for heavens sake!).
I'm a great fan of flying the flag, but do it with dignity and fly it on a pole - available at outlets such as:
Sometimes our leaders have to lead. They show a way ahead that the public would ordinarily baulk at. Cameron has been a leader on gay marriage, something which I strongly expect to be a huge shrug of the shoulders within 5 years, when people will wonder what all the fuss was about. The linkage of foreign aid to set % of GDP is heavily unpopular, but we are better as a nation for making that contribution (even though we may have legitimate qualms about how some of it is spent).
Truly populist politicians take comfort in a mythical time when things were so much better. Populist politicians follow the herd who think this. Populist politicians say what they know voters want to hear, rather than telling them what they need to hear. Populist politicians don't take bold steps that move the country forward.
I want a politician who is prepared to confront populism head-on. If they can't persuade the herd in due course, then they will get thrown out. But heaven help us if we have politicians who don't even try.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
None of the Thornberry Tweet flags were hanging from windows. They were hanging from the guttering or close to it, and one of them covered a whole window. Whatever some might say, it was an unusual display.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
Snobbery and condescension in one brief sentence. You are Emily Thornberry and I claim my five pounds. Though, I suppose you might equally be Hyacinth Bucket.
Looking at how this entirely confected PC Tory outrage has seen the Tories drop in the polls, I wonder if the Thornberry thing tapped into something - neighbours sick of anti-social idiots making their streets unsighty by draping flags over the front of their houses (and windows for heavens sake!).
I'm a great fan of flying the flag, but do it with dignity and fly it on a pole - available at outlets such as:
www.hampshireflags.co.uk
What drop in the polls? All four main parties have been within the margin of error for a month.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
None of the Thornberry Tweet flags were hanging from windows. They were hanging from the guttering or close to it, and one of them covered a whole window. Whatever some might say, it was an unusual display.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
And yet they also trade in the US which is not, as far as I know, a member of the EU.
Successfully, I think as well, which is more than can be said for Tesco!
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
M&S is much bigger than that, we have 18 stores here in the Philippines. M&S Global has something like 300 stores across 40 countries, and are building 80 in India to open in a couple of years.
Of course, this is only possible because we're in the EU /sarcasm.
I fear there will be unquestioning praise of all things associated with WWC from politicians in the near future
I just hope UKIP learn from the mistakes made by the other three when it comes latching on to a whole section of people with vast differences between them, and defending them at all costs as if they were all the same (motivated by desire for votes rather than sincerity)
It's not the elitist views they hold which people hate most (although this theme is pretty strong!). It's the lying about it. Brazenly and obviously. Contemptibly.
The thrilling attraction of UKIP for many is that they hold openly non-PC, non-elitist, man-in-the-street views about the key issues of our day - and, even more thrillingly, they do it openly and unashamedly. Love em or hate em they wear their views on their sleeves.
The paragraph that has set me thinking most this morning.
I upset Socrates a few threads ago by saying I wasn't British. In fact, anyone who has read my posts or has met me in person would say I am unashamedly Italian and Catholic.
I've found this attitude beneficial because it lets everyone know where they stand in relation to you - they either don't care or despise you straight away.
What people can't stand is being lied to or taken for fools.
No-one can accuse UKIP of that.
Well, I do. UKIP's whole prospectus is either outright lies or lies of omission. That it is the most disliked party despite never having held office (i.e. had to do anything unpopular) says that most people see through them.
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
The EU is a mere smokescreen for the real concern, which is a deep antipathy to anyone with brown skin. The EU misdirection is a way of saying Look, we hate all immigrants, even white Christian ones, so we can't be racists.The concealment of this under a lot of guff about being anti-EU is a further lie. They're anti-foreigner; all of them.
The attempt at passing themselves off as "the real Conservative party" is an attempt to steal respectability for these kinds of views. The actual and admitted agenda are profoundly unConservative.
Finally, UKIP is breathtakingly venal for its size, with an astonishing propensity for fiddling to the point where Farage refuses to have his MEPs' allowance claims audited (why would that be?) ; it is also exceptionally unprincipled in that it is prepared to associate with holocaust deniers to keep the money rolling in.
Essentially, UKIP is as I see it a children's crusade based on its leaders' perception that there is a market niche for a party of 1950s prejudices and a nice place fronting it at an unaudited trough for themselves.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
You need to tweet that, Mike, captioned "Image from #Bedford"
There have been several posts on here this morning repeating the mantra that every Labour government has left office leaving higher unemployment . Leaving aside the fact that that was true in 1951 only if you ignore the vast number of servicemen awaiting demobilisation in 1945 , it also conveniently ignores that every Conservative government has also left office leaving higher unemployment than when it took office .
But when you call yourself the LABOUR PARTY, don't you think it shows a glorious ineptitude to have fewer people in work after you have been allowed to put in place your policies to, er, help the working man?
But then they did preside over a National HEALTH Service that had the elderly drinking from their flower vases to stay alive, so maybe they aren't so big on labels after all?
I fear there will be unquestioning praise of all things associated with WWC from politicians in the near future
I just hope UKIP learn from the mistakes made by the other three when it comes latching on to a whole section of people with vast differences between them, and defending them at all costs as if they were all the same (motivated by desire for votes rather than sincerity)
Spot on. Some white working class people drive white vans and fly England flags. The vast majority don't. And it will probably come as a surprise to many who post on here, but there are quite a few white working class people working in the public sector.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
You need to tweet that, Mike, captioned "Image from #Bedford"
I think it more likely that @malcolmg has invaded Bedford and parked his SNP tanks on OGH's lawn.
There was no evidence whatsoever and they did it to stop the whining speculation of sad bitter Tories like carlotta. These jackals keep perpetuating the lies.
Still doesn't change the fact that there were reports.
Rumours started by scallywags perhaps, there were no reports and panelbase confirmed it was garbage.
Essentially, UKIP is as I see it a children's crusade based on its leaders' perception that there is a market niche for a party of 1950s prejudices and a nice place fronting it at an unaudited trough for themselves.
Congratulations, you just insulted between a quarter and a third of the population. With Tories like you, UKIP dont need press officers.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
None of the Thornberry Tweet flags were hanging from windows. They were hanging from the guttering or close to it, and one of them covered a whole window. Whatever some might say, it was an unusual display.
I thought you didn't need planning permission for flags from UK countries - an arcane rule brought to light after some frothing bigoted UKIP councillors demanded an EU flag be lowered from some town hall somewhere due to lack of planning permission.
Locals should know they can appeal to their local council to get idiots to take down these unsightly nuisances.
A bit late now, but a quicker Labour leader would have leveraged the Tories foolish kneejerk support for someone so obviously undermining the aesthetic of the area.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
Apparently some people are not keen on poles these days.
One of the comments below that Janet Daley article.
" Unless you fall into one of the following categories Labour no longer represents your interests in any way: public sector workers, trade unionists, those in receipt of benefits, single mothers on low or no incomes, recently settled immigrants, the low paid and part-time workers receiving credits. For the rest of us, they have nothing what so ever to offer other than their poisonous and divisive ideologically motivated politics of envy, and ever higher taxes to service their burgeoning client base and vested interest groups. Labour is an anachronistic party now out of it's time, pitifully out of touch with the electorate and the climate of public opinion; which it holds in utter contempt. Economically illiterate, it has acknowledged its complicity in little, apologised for less, and promises more of the same if it get back into office in 2015
Interesting analysis. Labour the party of organised labour, the low paid and the disadvantaged. Pretty much why it was established. Who'd have thought it?
Yet after 13 years of Labour governments with huge majorities allowing you to do anything you liked nothing really changed except higher unemployment (as always) and a completely devastated economy ( also as always)
Labour Should go back to their roots
I forget the last time Labour posted 3 million unemployed.
Oh, they haven't. But the Tories have. Twice.
It's fairly easy to keep unemployment down by generating lots of non-jobs at the public expense, well, until you stop being able to borrow any more money anyway, if Ed wins and tries that in the next parliament he might find it slightly harder.
Whereas the truth is this government has only created zillions of burger flipping jobs.
And they probably drive white vans and hang flags on their owner occupier houses!
Ewwww! I feel your pain! What a crew eh? But they've still got a vote....
Sometimes our leaders have to lead. They show a way ahead that the public would ordinarily baulk at. Cameron has been a leader on gay marriage, something which I strongly expect to be a huge shrug of the shoulders within 5 years, when people will wonder what all the fuss was about. The linkage of foreign aid to set % of GDP is heavily unpopular, but we are better as a nation for making that contribution (even though we may have legitimate qualms about how some of it is spent).
Well, there's democracy disposed of in one pithy paragraph. Government by clique.
It's too early in the morning to start a food fight, but borrowing money to just give it away to foreigners is absurd. If Cameron and his liberal clique care so much about poverty, they can give their own money away. I think it is Cameron just paying his buddies who work for foreign aid charities on £50k a year.
It's not "giving it away"
It's an attempt to fix the causes of, e.g. mass migration, rather than just address the symptoms when they arrive on our doorsteps
LOL. most ends up in the hands of a few despots running the countries. We have been doing it forever and it has had no impact other than to allow them to buy guns and whisky from us and Mercedes from Germany.
I use AVG - it's available free or paid for - never been compromised on email or website - every virus quarantined immediately and sorted. Can't give it too high a rating.
I'm in brain picking mode, so sorry to be off topic.
Any views on a decent anti virus package for a small office and a few laptops? Mine expires in a couple of weeks and I have no idea what is a good package these days. Any help much appreciated.
Which method did best in SINDYREF? There were reports of concerted efforts by Nats to bias the online panels.
Interestingly, playing with YouGov's superb timewasting Profiler ( https://yougov.co.uk/profiler#/ ) you get the following numbers of "supporters" for each party:
UKIP's whole prospectus is either outright lies or lies of omission. That it is the most disliked party despite never having held office (i.e. had to do anything unpopular) says that most people see through them.
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
UKIP needs the bogeyman of the EU. They are symbiotically linked. And they will bleed it of salaries and expenses while they are.
But imagine a world where UKIP gets its way and despite the will of the people expressed in a referendum, we leave the EU.
Who the feck are they going to blame for our ills then? That will be the time to be really scared. Then we really would see the Neo-Nasty Party in its true colours.
UKIP's whole prospectus is either outright lies or lies of omission. That it is the most disliked party despite never having held office (i.e. had to do anything unpopular) says that most people see through them.
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
UKIP needs the bogeyman of the EU. They are symbiotically linked. And they will bleed it of salaries and expenses while they are.
But imagine a world where UKIP gets its way and despite the will of the people expressed in a referendum, we leave the EU.
Who the feck are they going to blame for our ills then? That will be the time to be really scared. Then we really would see the Neo-Nasty Party in its true colours.
Assuming it wasn't a UKIP that negotiated the exit deal they'll be able to run against that instead, especially if it involves some other trade area.
CON drops & LAB lead widens with Populus online - the first full poll after "White Van" gate Lab 36 (=) Con 31 (-2), LD 9 (=), UKIP 15 (+1)
On the face of it the Tories should be quite concerned about this Populus poll. However Populus has over several recent polls recorded Labour with a higher vote share than other pollsters so I have my doubts particularly as the last few months of local elections results (real elections if you like) have with some exceptions been moderately encouraging for the Tories. Is the 36% with or without Scottish Labour votes?
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
None of the Thornberry Tweet flags were hanging from windows. They were hanging from the guttering or close to it, and one of them covered a whole window. Whatever some might say, it was an unusual display.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
And yet they also trade in the US which is not, as far as I know, a member of the EU.
Successfully, I think as well, which is more than can be said for Tesco!
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
M&S is much bigger than that, we have 18 stores here in the Philippines. M&S Global has something like 300 stores across 40 countries, and are building 80 in India to open in a couple of years.
There are small M&S units (with cheaper than usual wine, too) in Thailand. Tesco and Boots also big players there, at least in the Bangkok area. I’m certain that Tesco are also in China and Japan.
I think you're deluded if you don't sincerely believe that Nigel Farage and co. genuinely believe that the UK would be better off outside the EU.
That being said, I think the real danger 'out' has (and the reason they might very well lose a referendum) is that there is no consistent message about what the alternative vision is. There are a lot of people who want a looser (EEA/EFTA/Norway-type relationahip), but who don't want to go 'fully alone'. And I think the danger UKIP has is that they are the voice of 'no', and their vision (AFAIK) is for no binding international arrangements that infringe on British sovereignty (which would exclude either a Norwegian type solution, or joining NAFTA for that matter).
CON drops & LAB lead widens with Populus online - the first full poll after "White Van" gate Lab 36 (=) Con 31 (-2), LD 9 (=), UKIP 15 (+1)
On the face of it the Tories should be quite concerned about this Populus poll. However Populus has over several recent polls recorded Labour with a higher vote share than other pollsters so I have my doubts particularly as the last few months of local elections results (real elections if you like) have with some exceptions been moderately encouraging for the Tories. Is the 36% with or without Scottish Labour votes?
I must say I'm surprised by this given when the fieldwork took place. You do have to wonder exactly what EdM has to do before the tories have a lead?
UKIP's whole prospectus is either outright lies or lies of omission. That it is the most disliked party despite never having held office (i.e. had to do anything unpopular) says that most people see through them.
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
UKIP needs the bogeyman of the EU. They are symbiotically linked. And they will bleed it of salaries and expenses while they are.
But imagine a world where UKIP gets its way and despite the will of the people expressed in a referendum, we leave the EU.
Who the feck are they going to blame for our ills then? That will be the time to be really scared. Then we really would see the Neo-Nasty Party in its true colours.
Assuming it wasn't a UKIP that negotiated the exit deal they'll be able to run against that instead, especially if it involves some other trade area.
My scenario most likely envisions a situation where there is a very narrow vote to stay in the EU in 2017 but UKIP manages to get a majority by 2020 on a pledge to withdraw anyway. In that situation UKIP would own the exit deal.
Looking out of my window in Bedford there's a Saltire flying looking magnificent on a bright cold morning. Is this some cybernat trick? No. Our local church is St. Andrew's
Is it on a pole and not mindlessly draped out of a bedroom window making the place look tatty?
None of the Thornberry Tweet flags were hanging from windows. They were hanging from the guttering or close to it, and one of them covered a whole window. Whatever some might say, it was an unusual display.
CON drops & LAB lead widens with Populus online - the first full poll after "White Van" gate Lab 36 (=) Con 31 (-2), LD 9 (=), UKIP 15 (+1)
On the face of it the Tories should be quite concerned about this Populus poll. However Populus has over several recent polls recorded Labour with a higher vote share than other pollsters so I have my doubts particularly as the last few months of local elections results (real elections if you like) have with some exceptions been moderately encouraging for the Tories. Is the 36% with or without Scottish Labour votes?
I must say I'm surprised by this given when the fieldwork took place. You do have to wonder exactly what EdM has to do before the tories have a lead?
I still have faith that during the election campaign, Ed will somehow contrive to punch a puppy....
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
A touch ironic that ALDI and LIDL trade here because of the EU.
And yet they also trade in the US which is not, as far as I know, a member of the EU.
Successfully, I think as well, which is more than can be said for Tesco!
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
M&S is much bigger than that, we have 18 stores here in the Philippines. M&S Global has something like 300 stores across 40 countries, and are building 80 in India to open in a couple of years.
There are small M&S units (with cheaper than usual wine, too) in Thailand. Tesco and Boots also big players there, at least in the Bangkok area. I’m certain that Tesco are also in China and Japan.
I was really thinking of the EU.
Its eye wateringly expensive here. I used to rather enjoy their Tinned Steak in Gravy when I was in England which cost about £3.50, I found it here in my local M&S for the equivalent of almost £8, I couldn't bring myself to buy it at that price and considering it was going to cost probably more than the sales assistant made that day.
UKIP's whole prospectus is either outright lies or lies of omission. That it is the most disliked party despite never having held office (i.e. had to do anything unpopular) says that most people see through them.
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
UKIP needs the bogeyman of the EU. They are symbiotically linked. And they will bleed it of salaries and expenses while they are.
But imagine a world where UKIP gets its way and despite the will of the people expressed in a referendum, we leave the EU.
Who the feck are they going to blame for our ills then? That will be the time to be really scared. Then we really would see the Neo-Nasty Party in its true colours.
Assuming it wasn't a UKIP that negotiated the exit deal they'll be able to run against that instead, especially if it involves some other trade area.
My scenario most likely envisions a situation where there is a very narrow vote to stay in the EU in 2017 but UKIP manages to get a majority by 2020 on a pledge to withdraw anyway. In that situation UKIP would own the exit deal.
And rightly so if they have a democratic mandate, as I often observe, the problem with democracy is sometimes the people vote for parties you dont like.
CON drops & LAB lead widens with Populus online - the first full poll after "White Van" gate Lab 36 (=) Con 31 (-2), LD 9 (=), UKIP 15 (+1)
On the face of it the Tories should be quite concerned about this Populus poll. However Populus has over several recent polls recorded Labour with a higher vote share than other pollsters so I have my doubts particularly as the last few months of local elections results (real elections if you like) have with some exceptions been moderately encouraging for the Tories. Is the 36% with or without Scottish Labour votes?
I must say I'm surprised by this given when the fieldwork took place. You do have to wonder exactly what EdM has to do before the tories have a lead?
There was school of thought, perhaps even a consensus, on here before the last election that unless an event was of major significance it took about 14 days before it fed through into the polls and very minor events seldom if ever did shift cause any movement in themselves (though a succession of such events may contribute to a longer term, and more enduring, shift). That wisdom seems to have been forgotten and a fair number of posters seem to expect instant effects from what are in reality fairly trivial happenings.
Comments
It's an attempt to fix the causes of, e.g. mass migration, rather than just address the symptoms when they arrive on our doorsteps
There is an intellectual vacuum at the heart of UKIP that does indeed take the voters for fools.
We also eliminate non-essential emails and temp-files daily.
All govts leave office with problems. If there no problems, they wouldn't leave office.
Definitely a Kipper surge, 374 respondents is very high with Populus. I expect Ashcroft could well have them over 20% today.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/q4rrapo5ra/SunOnSundayResults_141121_whole_sample_Website.pdf
UKIP voters noticeably feeling the pinch more and more gloomy about their prospects.
Lab 36 (=) Con 31 (-2), LD 9 (=), UKIP 15 (+1)
You need to look beyond the topline for UKIP with Populus.
UKIP will be up I think with Ashcroft today too.
It is the media coverage after the result which will cause a reaction or so forth.
Event -> Media reaction -> Media echo -> Polling fieldwork -> Published poll
At least he didn't mention being gay yet again this weekend. That really is tiresome when he talks through that prism again and again. He's not telling us anything new or noteworthy 95% of the time.
UKIP is to politics what Aldi and Lidl are to supermarkets.
For years, British shoppers have been paying over the odds for everyday groceries. And because most of the retailers were at it, no one seemed to see it.
Then along came Aldi and Lidl. Two decades after they started to show customers what good value looks like, they have reached a tipping point. The established players aren't just losing market share. If they don't adapt fast, there's even talk they may go under.
http://www.talkcarswell.com/home/britain-is-run-in-the-interests-of-vested-interests/2818
Con 31 +/- 3, LAB 33 +/- 3, LD 7 +/- 3, UKIP 16 +/- 3
Its been like this all month at least.
I don't think a politician has ever managed to do that - when I wrote to Mr Cameron about my concerns, I got a reply basically saying Thanks, but I believe it - so no dice. That's fair enough - we agreed to disagree. He didn't make me feel like I was a germ.
So, how come Walmart trades here?
Why don't we or OHG award an "Ig Poll-bel" prize each year just as there is an established "Ig Nobel" prize for the most peculiar bit of science each year?
Or could, at least. Thankfully, that seems to be changing. A bit less political correctness would've averted a huge amount of evil in Rotherham.
I think in that context there aren’t that many retailers which are cross-border. IIRC Carrefour tried to move across the Channel unsuccessfuly. M&S have some stores in France I think, but elsewhere?
Greenwich Mean Time (@GreenwichMean)
24/11/2014 09:44
It's 9:44 am. If an MP called you a prick on Twitter, Ed Miliband wouldn't sack them
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/29538038
20 races, the extra one is Mexico. Austria, it seems, remains. Williams will be happy about that.
I'm a great fan of flying the flag, but do it with dignity and fly it on a pole - available at outlets such as:
www.hampshireflags.co.uk
You can't lead if you're following.
http://barristerblogger.com/2014/11/23/will-miliband-now-throw-respectful-support-behind-van-man-dans-planning-application/
I just hope UKIP learn from the mistakes made by the other three when it comes latching on to a whole section of people with vast differences between them, and defending them at all costs as if they were all the same (motivated by desire for votes rather than sincerity)
Specifically, UKIP has no intention whatsoever, literally zero, of ever leaving the EU because it knows full well that the type of semi-detached membership it seeks will cost more than what we have now. Its claims to aspire to do so are thus a lie, in that it knows perfectly well it can never, ever win any such referendum and is actively avoiding one. Abject fear of such a referendum is why UKIP is desperate for any GE other result than a Conservative majority. The latter will result in the referendum defeat that they dread; in the wake of an In vote they will have little choice but to disband.
The EU is a mere smokescreen for the real concern, which is a deep antipathy to anyone with brown skin. The EU misdirection is a way of saying Look, we hate all immigrants, even white Christian ones, so we can't be racists.The concealment of this under a lot of guff about being anti-EU is a further lie. They're anti-foreigner; all of them.
The attempt at passing themselves off as "the real Conservative party" is an attempt to steal respectability for these kinds of views. The actual and admitted agenda are profoundly unConservative.
Finally, UKIP is breathtakingly venal for its size, with an astonishing propensity for fiddling to the point where Farage refuses to have his MEPs' allowance claims audited (why would that be?) ; it is also exceptionally unprincipled in that it is prepared to associate with holocaust deniers to keep the money rolling in.
Essentially, UKIP is as I see it a children's crusade based on its leaders' perception that there is a market niche for a party of 1950s prejudices and a nice place fronting it at an unaudited trough for themselves.
Yougov & Ashcroft ?
But then they did preside over a National HEALTH Service that had the elderly drinking from their flower vases to stay alive, so maybe they aren't so big on labels after all?
A PB coup is afoot ....
I thought you didn't need planning permission for flags from UK countries - an arcane rule brought to light after some frothing bigoted UKIP councillors demanded an EU flag be lowered from some town hall somewhere due to lack of planning permission.
Locals should know they can appeal to their local council to get idiots to take down these unsightly nuisances.
A bit late now, but a quicker Labour leader would have leveraged the Tories foolish kneejerk support for someone so obviously undermining the aesthetic of the area.
I might be confused.
Conservatives: 2854
Labour: 4949
Lib Dems: 796
UKIP: 8077
Green: 1840 + 93 Scottish
SNP: 490
Plaid: 97
BNP: 80
But imagine a world where UKIP gets its way and despite the will of the people expressed in a referendum, we leave the EU.
Who the feck are they going to blame for our ills then? That will be the time to be really scared. Then we really would see the Neo-Nasty Party in its true colours.
I was really thinking of the EU.
I think you're deluded if you don't sincerely believe that Nigel Farage and co. genuinely believe that the UK would be better off outside the EU.
That being said, I think the real danger 'out' has (and the reason they might very well lose a referendum) is that there is no consistent message about what the alternative vision is. There are a lot of people who want a looser (EEA/EFTA/Norway-type relationahip), but who don't want to go 'fully alone'. And I think the danger UKIP has is that they are the voice of 'no', and their vision (AFAIK) is for no binding international arrangements that infringe on British sovereignty (which would exclude either a Norwegian type solution, or joining NAFTA for that matter).