Yea, though I walk through the Tees Valley of the shadow of Reform – politicalbetting.com

System · April 20

Yea, though I walk through the Tees Valley of the shadow of Reform – politicalbetting.com

Looking at the data tables I'd shade this tied poll slightly blue. Lab support draws a lot from people who didn't vote in 2021, and a Con lead emerges if you restrict it to those certain to vote. Houchen running ahead of the Con brand but still a big swing since 2021. https://t.co/syQpARSuhk

Read the full story here

Carnyx · April 20

First like Lord Houchen.

eek · April 20

Carnyx said:
First like Lord Houchen.

Second unlike T Dan Smith Jr (aka Ben Houchen). I suspect when the audit office actually start looking into things Ben may be facing jail time which is why he has that nickname

kle4 · April 20

Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?

eek · April 20

I would also add in Ben wins this it's because this time rounds the Lib Dems are standing and they didn't in 2021...

Annoyingly the Lib Dem leaflets are the ones highlighting the issues that Ben has created while Labour haven't said a thing about it.

Leon · April 20

Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that

kle4 · April 20

A few years ago I met a chap who worked in Houchen's office. Despite the lack of peerage Houchen's stonking re-election win probably made it a happier period.

kle4 · April 20

Leon said:
Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that

I guess Paris is not back.

ydoethur · April 20

TSE marking Good Shepherd Sunday tomorrow in some style.

Luckyguy1983 · April 20

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?

Is that the one charting all his greatest legislative achievements down to the last detail - the leaflet-sized one?

TheScreamingEagles · April 20

ydoethur said:
TSE marking Good Shepherd Sunday tomorrow in some style.

Hurrah someone spotted my subtle biblical reference.

nico679 · April 20

The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .

ydoethur · April 20

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:
TSE marking Good Shepherd Sunday tomorrow in some style.
Hurrah someone spotted my subtle biblical reference.

And your cup runneth over...

TheScreamingEagles · April 20

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?

I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.

kle4 · April 20

Luckyguy1983 said:

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?
Is that the one charting all his greatest legislative achievements down to the last detail - the leaflet-sized one?

Only a little way into it and it's mostly about how Sunak is crap at presentation. And how having a competent minister who is not leadership threat may be a benefit in some ways, but it still makes him look bad.

edit: One interesting point is that being better at tight messaging, once seen as a negative, is a positive when the PM is throwing out gimmicks all the time.

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?
I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.

Ah, well, I only have an unsigned copy myself.

Who you know I guess.

williamglenn · April 20

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:
TSE marking Good Shepherd Sunday tomorrow in some style.
Hurrah someone spotted my subtle biblical reference.

Surely you took it from Coolio?

ydoethur · April 20

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?
I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.

Seems overkill.

And what about Cameron, do you have a signed copy of his too?

*grabs tinfoil hat and ducks*

TheScreamingEagles · April 20

Leon said:
Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that

I could have told you that years ago.

In fact I did when the French rozzers tried to teargas me whilst you were blaming innocent Liverpool fans.

kle4 · April 20

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .

You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.

Luckyguy1983 · April 20

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?
I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.

I take it you couldn't afford an unsigned one.

kinabalu · April 20

Leon said:
Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that

Have you been commissioned to write an article about how Paris is in decline?

Leon · April 20

kle4 said:

Leon said:
Paris is making me feel an awful lot better about london. So there is that
I guess Paris is not back.

It’s not. I will do just one more photo because I don’t want to overwhelm the site. And it’s a tiny thing but somehow emblematic. It’s only litter (there is so much litter here, when did central Paris get litter?)

Anyway here it is. Used toilet paper and a pair of shoes. Trivial but… not nice. Where is this? Some horrible suburban park? No, this is the Champs Elysee right next to the Place de la Concorde

TheScreamingEagles · April 20

At IPL Sunrisers Hyderabad are 185/4 after 13 overs.

The opening pair put on 131 from just 6 overs.

ydoethur · April 20

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.

It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?

kle4 · April 20

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?

That is true - people in power will need to see the short or long term advantage to a change in order to support it, you cannot rely high minded principle alone. We've been quite fortunate at how things have developed, on the whole.

Donkeys · April 20

Leon said:

bondegezou said:

kjh said:

Leon said:
Anyone moaning about Brexit Britain needs to come to Paris
Will be there in June, but have been several times since Brexit. Will be staying in the Latin QTR.
Was in Paris last year. It was absolutely delightful. Lovely people, lovely food, lovely atmosphere.
Yes of course

You've been visiting a famous death site, I see.

Well OK, she was pronounced dead in the hospital after all that time in the stationary and then slow-moving ambulance, but I mean the site of crash bang, the hard bit's done, it's all over for you now, girl, that's what you get for betraying the Family.

williamglenn · April 20

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?

2025 - votes given to non-Commonwealth foreign residents and 16 year olds to benefit the Labour party

ydoethur · April 20

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?
2025 - votes given to non-Commonwealth foreign residents and 16 year olds to benefit the Labour party

2023 - Voter ID for in-person voting with further loosening of postal voting to benefit the Tories...

ClippP · April 20

eek said:
I would also add in Ben wins this it's because this time rounds the Lib Dems are standing and they didn't in 2021...

Annoyingly the Lib Dem leaflets are the ones highlighting the issues that Ben has created while Labour haven't said a thing about it.

The problem is that if Labour highlight the problems that the Conservatives have created, and then Labour win, people will expect Labour to put things right.

Starmer knows what he is doing. But then nobody else does.

kle4 · April 20

ydoethur said:

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?
2025 - votes given to non-Commonwealth foreign residents and 16 year olds to benefit the Labour party
2023 - Voter ID for in-person voting with further loosening of postal voting to benefit the Tories...

Well, that may have been the intention. I still reckon it was very foreseeable the former could harm them more.

IanB2 · April 20

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?

On that basis, votes at 16 is just around the corner…

Burgessian · April 20

J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

Donkeys · April 20

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?

Interesting post. But the suffragettes hated the Liberals and in 1913 even bombed Lloyd George's house.

ExiledInScotland · April 20

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

Leon · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

The Reverse Flynn Effect - the steep fall in average IQ - is a very real thing

kle4 · April 20

Leon said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The Reverse Flynn Effect - the steep fall in average IQ - is a very real thing

Good timing for those of us in our 30s I guess, just managed to avoid it!

Andy_JS · April 20

South Africa election on 29th May.

"The economy has expanded by just 0.3% a year on average over the past decade — well below what was needed to maintain living standards for the growing population. The unemployment rate stood at 32% at the end of 2023, and the income gap between rich and poor is wider than anywhere else in the world, according to available data compiled by the Thomas Piketty-backed World Inequality Lab.

Almost daily rolling blackouts have frustrated citizens and disrupted the economy, and the dysfunctional freight-rail system and ports hobble exorts. Ramaphosa is trying to tackle those problems by increasing purchase of power from private producers, making it easier for companies to generate their own electricity and enabling private train operators to use the state logistics company’s tracks.

He’s also increasing the size of the police force to try and bring crime under control. Over 80 people are murdered in South Africa each day, with the per-capita homicide rate more than five times the international average."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-04-19/south-african-elections-what-if-the-anc-has-to-share-power

Sunil_Prasannan · April 20

TheScreamingEagles said:

kle4 said:
Just saw a podcast about whether Cameron was outshining Sunak, hosted by a chap with Cameron's biography on a shelf behind him. TSE moonlighting at a third gig?
I have two signed copies of the great man's autobiography.

Unelected Has-Been

Leon · April 20

If you feel sad about the state of Oxford Street I can recommend a walk down the Rue de Rivoli

I mean, Oxford street is a bit shabby but Oxford street was never beautiful. The Rue de Rivoli WAS: absolutely beautiful. Possibly the most beautiful shopping street in the world?

It is now a sequence of American candy stores, naff souvenir shops, permanently shuttered cafes, and homeless people in doorways

IanB2 · April 20

Not all Tories are completely pessimistic, however. One influential figure, who self-identifies as an “incurable optimist”, said a solid performance in some key contests could steady the ship. “Almost everybody seems to be going about assuming they’re going to be really bad and I’m not at all sure that they are. There’s a very good chance that we hold the Teesside and West Midlands mayoralties.

“I think there is a very good chance that Susan Hall performs better than anybody expects in London against Sadiq Khan. That’s actually a story that doesn’t align with a Labour lead of 20 points in the polls.”

Having said that, they added: “You can’t rule out a complete panicked meltdown.”

kinabalu · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

Emotions and feelings do drive decisions, though, don't they. Eg Brexit. And that was old people.

williamglenn · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”

kle4 · April 20

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”

Gets in the way of history too, no doubt.

Andy_JS · April 20

FPT

darkage said:

StillWaters said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

TimS said:

kjh said:

kle4 said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

Leon said:

nico679 said:

Leon said:
OMG these Brexit queues. They are HORRIFIC

You guys weren’t joking

That’s before the new rules come in .
Weird how I just keep getting lucky. Yet I travel abroad more than anyone on this forum. Its almost as if all this Brexit delay travel stuff is just bullshit

I’ve encountered Brexity passport queues twice since Brexit and I travel incessantly
Firstly travel to a non EU country doesn't count as obviously nothing has changed. So trips to Thailand or USA are unaffected.

Secondly it has to be an EU airport that is an International hub ie not one that is taking local traffic or mainly UK holidaymakers and nobody else because the situation that causes the problem doesn't arise. So trips to Faro or Alicante are pretty much unaffected except for it being slightly slower.

However if you go to a main airport and happen to land at the same time as a large flight from the USA or from anywhere outside of the EU you will be stuffed.

So I have experienced numerous flights to small airports and the USA without any issues at all. However a flight to Lisbon which landed at the same time as two flights from the USA and it was a 3 hour wait to get through passport control. Counting the length and width of the snake I reckon it was 1000 people. All gates were open and they used the EU gate and priority gate as well to clear us. EU citizens just waltzed through the EU gate.
I travel far more often that you. To the EU and everywhere else

Since Brexit I have encountered really annoying Brexit related delays (ie an hour+ extra queue) exactly twice. Once in Iceland once in Switzerland (for the reasons you say). And both a while ago

I’ve had smaller delays - 10-20 minutes - 3 or 4 times and none recently. That’s it. My god. The pain
Yes I know you do. But you shouldn't have those delays and if you are an infrequent traveller and unlucky it is really annoying. In your case you are taking it with the flow. You travel hugely. You know shit will happen occasionally (usually not Brexit related) and live with it. If you do it once or twice a year and are unlucky and wait 3 hours while you see an empty EU gate you really get pissed.
Sure, but as one of those people who doesn't travel a lot, is it that big a deal then?
@leon posted about missing a flight recently from the far east. He took it in his stride as a
seasoned travel. Imagine if that was your flight back from a 2 week holiday. You would be beside yourself.
I’ve missed 5 flights in my adult life, which I believe is quite an unusual achievement:

1. Stansted to Malmo, because of traffic jam on the M11
2. Paris CDG to home: traffic jam on périphérique
3. Heathrow to Hamburg: got to the gate and realised I had my sons passport
4. Schipol to home: delayed flight so sat in the bar, relaxed, and missed final call
5. Dar es Salaam to home via Bahrain: didn’t reconfirm, flight overbooked, had to spend another 3 days in Tanzania before the next flight

I almost made it 6 on a return from Miami. Sat in the lounge, flight delayed, have a few drinks, then suddenly flight closing. They fitted me on but with a downgrade from business to economy right at the back.

I've had some very narrow escapes but never actually missed a flight. I'm flying back from the US tonight though, so there's a first time for everything!
I’ve missed 3:

1. Lufthansa Frankfurt to London. Arrived at the gate 5 minutes before closing time. Told they had closed the gate early as it was the last flight on Friday and they wanted to get home for the weekend

2. Lufthansa Frankfurt to Bremen. Overbooked so they bumped me off

3. Lufthansa London to Dusseldorf - got to the airport and realised I’d left my passport at home

I no longer fly Lufthansa…
I haven't ever missed a flight - but have booked a lot of tickets where I decided not to fly.

I nearly missed a flight in Stansted a few weeks ago though. Saw the gate came on the screen and went to the toilet and to get a coffee expecting to walk to the gate. However it was in one of the satellite terminals you need to get the train to. The train didn't turn up for 5 minutes, and then took 5 minutes to get to the terminal. Ryanair like to close the gate as quickly as possible so it was close but I made it.

Historically there was an issue with flying to Helsinki from heathrow on Friday night. There was a Finnair and a BA flight going to helsinki at the same time. Both Finnair and BA confusingly also codeshared the flight. So you could quite easily go to the gate for the wrong flight.

Never missed a flight, never been bumped, always travelled in economy. So very boring from me, as usual. 😊

Theuniondivvie · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

It’s great though that Rowling and her pals are really dialling down the emotions and feelz in this debate.

Theuniondivvie · April 20

Great thread on Byron (an old boy of my alma mater).

https://x.com/beeestonia/status/1781426854512959757?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Andy_JS · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

Very disquieting. Shows easy it is for Enlightenment values to be enshittified.

OldKingCole · April 20

Andy_JS said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
Very disquieting. Shows easy it is for Enlightenment values to be enshittified.

Depends on the decision, surely.

bondegezou · April 20

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”

I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.

williamglenn · April 20

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.

Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.

kle4 · April 20

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.

Not to the point of a mob storming the capitol to deliver on that belief, and still believe it 4 years later, so it's not exactly the same level.

The 'what about Hilary?' people really need to work harder.

Wulfrun_Phil · April 20

williamglenn said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?
2025 - votes given to non-Commonwealth foreign residents and 16 year olds to benefit the Labour party

I think you forgot: 2024 - votes given to pensioners who have lived in foreign countries since they were a child and have never paid a penny in UK taxes.

nico679 · April 20

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
Not to the point of a mob storming the capitol to deliver on that belief, and still believe it 4 years later, so it's not exactly the same level.

The 'what about Hilary?' people really need to work harder.

Yes the desperate false equivalence by some. It’s the go to for those trying to defend the indefensible.

williamglenn · April 20

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
Not to the point of a mob storming the capitol to deliver on that belief, and still believe it 4 years later, so it's not exactly the same level.

The 'what about Hilary?' people really need to work harder.

There was significant Anti-Trump political violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0i6piW_ak

Malmesbury · April 20

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.

The Met will issue a statement that it is her fault for being offensively rational in a public place.

Leon · April 20

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.

Or that his entire family was eaten by cannibals

Malmesbury · April 20

Andy_JS said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
Very disquieting. Shows easy it is for Enlightenment values to be enshittified.

Interesting. My daughters, both woke in the sense of 100% behind George Floyd, and trans etc, regard such people with a studied contempt.

They regard them as not having grown up.

boulay · April 20

Theuniondivvie said:
Great thread on Byron (an old boy of my alma mater).

https://x.com/beeestonia/status/1781426854512959757?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Always had you down as a Harrovian!

ClippP · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

If you give priority to feelings over facts, you are simply accepting the female perspective and interpretation and following on from that, solutions for the future.

Malmesbury · April 20

kle4 said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
Gets in the way of history too, no doubt.

Reality is often wrong. See the feelings of Post Office Management. They are quite clear that it is jolly hurtful and unpleasant to suggest they were wrong in any way.

ydoethur · April 20

Donkeys said:

ydoethur said:

kle4 said:

nico679 said:
The old supplementary vote system would have made it much harder for the Tories to hang onto their mayoral seats .

Regardless of Reform standing Labour would have a larger pool of voters to draw from .
You are surely not suggesting the voting system was changed to benefit the party, with it not being (despite their claims) a manifesto commitment? For shame.
It is quite striking to reflect that with the possible exception of the 1928 Equal Franchise Act, every single change in the voting system was to benefit the party in power.

1832 - to try and create a Whig dominance by enfranchising new boroughs and disenfranchisement of Tory-controlled rotten boroughs;

1867 - to give more seats to the counties which voted Conservative;

1884/85 - a wider franchise proposed to benefit the Liberals, passed on a deal that handed redistricting to the Conservatives;

1918 - votes given to those most supportive of the war effort and therefore sympathetic to Lloyd George (and indeed, votes stripped from conscientious objectors).

It's utterly cynical.

Why should this be any different?
Interesting post. But the suffragettes hated the Liberals and in 1913 even bombed Lloyd George's house.

You do know Lloyd George was suspended from the Liberal Party in 1918?

kjh · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

Although I agree with the point you are making we all do also make decisions based upon emotions and feelings. I have certainly bought things for practical purposes where product A is more suited than product B but product B looks nicer and then bought product B or had to fight my feelings not to do so.

Leon · April 20

Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Sunil_Prasannan · April 20

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.

Well, more people voted for her than for Trump...

Andy_JS · April 20

If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?

TOPPING · April 20

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.

RochdalePioneers · April 20

Houchen could win. But I don’t think he will find it a happy experience if he does. There’s too much smoke now from the massive skip fire which is Teesport for him to keep claiming there is no smoke.

What is the process if a Metro Mayor has to resign in disgrace? A by-election?

Leon · April 20

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.

No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores

boulay · April 20

Andy_JS said:
If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?

It’s how Gen Z zombies make their decisions.

Malmesbury · April 20

a

Andy_JS said:
If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?

Ask the Sec. of the Central Transcarpathian Branch of the Conservative Party?

kinabalu · April 20

Andy_JS said:
If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?

That would be inventing anecdotes to support your view of something. Very rare thankfully.

TOPPING · April 20

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores

Hmm I'll have to see on Monday.

williamglenn · April 20

I've always found Paris to be rough, even in the nice parts.

Wulfrun_Phil · April 20

Donkeys said:

Leon said:

bondegezou said:

kjh said:

Leon said:
Anyone moaning about Brexit Britain needs to come to Paris
Will be there in June, but have been several times since Brexit. Will be staying in the Latin QTR.
Was in Paris last year. It was absolutely delightful. Lovely people, lovely food, lovely atmosphere.
Yes of course

You've been visiting a famous death site, I see.

Well OK, she was pronounced dead in the hospital after all that time in the stationary and then slow-moving ambulance, but I mean the site of crash bang, the hard bit's done, it's all over for you now, girl, that's what you get for betraying the Family.

I dread to think what you would get banged up for if you were promoting wild conspiracy theories against the head of state in Russia, although Russia is no doubt paying you handsomely to promote wild conspiracy theories against the head of state here.

Benpointer · April 20

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores

All seemed fine when we were there in February. Area around GdN is scummy that's true but central Paris was beautiful as ever.

Leon · April 20

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
Hmm I'll have to see on Monday.

The Rue de Rivoli

TOPPING · April 20

williamglenn said:
I've always found Paris to be rough, even in the nice parts.

It's the parking that does me in. Not an inch between cars how do they get in and out.

Sunil_Prasannan · April 20

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
Hmm I'll have to see on Monday.
The Rue de Rivoli

Oh la la!

kinabalu · April 20

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores

But I thought you'd been asked to write a piece for your organ on how Paris has gone downhill? Is that not right?

TOPPING · April 20

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
Hmm I'll have to see on Monday.
The Rue de Rivoli

Yebbut it's a bit of no man's land there.

williamglenn · April 20

TOPPING said:

williamglenn said:
I've always found Paris to be rough, even in the nice parts.
It's the parking that does me in. Not an inch between cars how do they get in and out.

The practice was always to leave the handbrake off to allow pushing.

rcs1000 · April 20

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.

Did she?

She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

Could you perhaps enlighten me?

Leon · April 20

Paris is just exhibiting an urban malaise visible across the western world. From San Francisco to Sicily, from London to NYC

It’s a mixture of post Covid and several other factors. Maybe even some kind of civilisational despair. A loss of vital confidence. Like a lonely divorcee eating baked beans from the tin and peeing in the sink

But in Paris it is particularly noticeable because Paris is so beautiful so it is shocking, and because its decline is swift, and because I haven’t been here in five years so I really notice it

williamglenn · April 20

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

bondegezou said:

williamglenn said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.
The new CEO of NPR in the US has explicitly said that seeking the truth is a problem:

https://twitter.com/CatchUpFeed/status/1780492395790086460

“Our reverence for the truth might be a distraction getting in the way of finding common ground & getting things done.”
I can top that. The then US President got much of the country to believe he hadn’t lost an election that, in truth, he had lost.
Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too.
Did she?

She turned up to Trump's inauguration. She phoned to congratulate him as the winner. She wrote a book about her loss.

So, I'm just wondering about the evidence for the statement "Hillary Clinton got much of the country to believe that she was legitimate winner in 2016 too."

Could you perhaps enlighten me?

Certainly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.

boulay · April 20

Malmesbury said:
a
Andy_JS said:
If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?
Ask the Sec. of the Central Transcarpathian Branch of the Conservative Party?

He looks like he’s just about to lock an innocent member of the Tory party in a flat after sucking him dry, of blood obviously.

OnlyLivingBoy · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

Maybe they listened to Cabinet ministers saying we'd had enough of experts.

Benpointer · April 20

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Have they taken down the scaffolding from the Flèche yet or does it still look like the whole stock of scaffold poles in France:

Leon · April 20

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:
Somewhat more cheering. The restoration of Notre Dame, highly impressive and rather moving

Now do the rest of the western world

Problem is that if you went anywhere from the GdN in a taxi you will have been so soured by the environs as you drove away from there that anything and everything else in Paris will seem awful.

A makeover a la King's Cross it has not had.
No. I came here with genuinely open eyes. Paris is a toilet at the moment

I could post endless photos. The Rue de Rivoli is astonishing. It looks like a down at heel street in Naples with extra American candy stores
Hmm I'll have to see on Monday.
The Rue de Rivoli

Yebbut it's a bit of no man's land there.

Ok here’s someone living in a car right outside the Hotel de Ville

I mean, did you ever see that before? No. It’s ridiculous. This is new

Leon · April 20

The whole of the square in front of the Hotel de Ville is an African refugee encampment

SeaShantyIrish2 · April 20

. . . start popping your popcorn . . .

https://live.house.gov/

ydoethur · April 20

Malmesbury said:
a
Andy_JS said:
If lived experience is a thing, what exactly is unlived experience?
Ask the Sec. of the Central Transcarpathian Branch of the Conservative Party?

Blimey, Liz Truss really *has* taken the adverse reaction to her book badly, hasn't she?

Benpointer · April 20

SeaShantyIrish2 said:
. . . start popping your popcorn . . .

https://live.house.gov/

Er, ok... what's happening?

Penddu2 · April 20

I used to live in Paris - in Courbevoie near La Defense. It was fine in the day but always felt threatening after 8pm when all the office drones had gone home and the 'youths' moved in...

And the area north of Gare de Nord and Gare de l'Est was just scary at any time...

Benpointer · April 20

Leon said:
The whole of the square in front of the Hotel de Ville is an African refugee encampment

Yes, we can see that from your earlier photo - the one with all those people walking through the city of tents.

Penddu2 · April 20

Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

Leon · April 20

Benpointer said:

Leon said:
The whole of the square in front of the Hotel de Ville is an African refugee encampment
Yes, we can see that from your earlier photo - the one with all those people walking through the city of tents.

So I’m lying? Oh wait. I’m not

Seems it started off semi official now it’s more “Freeform”

Meanwhile on the main shopping street of Paris at 7pm on Saturday evening

noneoftheabove · April 20

ExiledInScotland said:

Burgessian said:
J K Rowling tweeting that Dr Hilary Cass feels she can no longer safely travel on public transport. Jeez.

Just incredible how this irrational trans ideology has taken hold. A deadly mixture of woke and identity politics.
Had a long discussion last night with my 21yo youngest daughter. She is at Edinburgh Uni and told me that a lot of her friends think emotions and feelings are more important than facts when making decisions - lived experience is more valid than measurable outcomes or the law. What on earth have we done in educating that generation? Social media has done so much damage.

What decisions were you talking about? Were you both talking about the same type of decisions?

If I'm deciding whether to marry someone or start a family with them, I am not going to primarily decide on their height and income, but on emotions and feelings. However, If I'm builiding an aeroplane I'm not going to choose the parts because I simply love the colour on a different part and it will look prettier.

Some decisions, facts are more important, others emotions are more important, most decisions require both.

Seems a pointless debate as to which is more important.

boulay · April 20

Penddu2 said:
Even in the historical Centre around Chatelet & Les Halles - after 8pm it takes on a very threatening feel compared to the day..

I’m trying to remember if I found anywhere within zone 2 of London (just a random way of thinking about the larger centre of London) remotely threatening at night and it wasn’t as far as I remember. I found central Geneva at night much more dangerous and dodgy with lots of mates being mugged a lot, girls threatened by big gangs of guys.

Maybe because our drinking culture you are more likely to get into a scrap in a bar than when everyone is wandering around pissed on the streets en masse.

Leon · April 20

Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

boulay · April 20

Leon said:
Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol

Isn’t there the “Paris syndrome” thingy where Japanese tourists (and others) were so discombobulated by the disconnect between their preconceptions of Paris v the reality?

Leon · April 20

boulay said:

Leon said:
Imagine watching 3 seasons of Emily in Paris then actually coming here. Lol
Isn’t there the “Paris syndrome” thingy where Japanese tourists (and others) were so discombobulated by the disconnect between their preconceptions of Paris v the reality?

Yes exactly. I just never expected to experience it myself

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