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1931 in reverse grows closer – politicalbetting.com

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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,141
    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563
    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Ho ho ho.

    Scotch expertise strikes again.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,974
    algarkirk said:

    kle4 said:

    MattW said:

    Jury selection in Trump Trial:

    The man is so toxic jurors are afraid of him.
    There are so many people in Manhattan they can find a fair jury even for him, but he may be the hardest person ever to manage that for even above serious violent criminals, due to his assertion that attacking witnesses, judges, and prospective jurors, is political speech, and given he has supporters who do act on this stuff.
    It is entirely rational to not want to be on a jury dealing with Trump, for similar reasons one would not, per impossibile,
    want to be a juror in a case in Russia where Putin was the defendant.
    Indeed. But that's why they need to go through hundreds to get 18 who are are willing and able, even if not keen.
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    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Oh dear, how sad. :lol:
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792
    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU.

    They’ve what?
    Yes that’s what they’ve said . It’s shocking .
    Pillocks.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    So what are the chances of Mark Menzies spending a lot more time in a small room with 'bad people' in a HMP ?
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,289
    Would you like some porridge for breakfast Mr Murrell?
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,504
    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Hahaha. Oh dear….
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    edited April 18

    So what are the chances of Mark Menzies spending a lot more time in a small room with 'bad people' in a HMP ?

    And does Mark Menzies pronounce his name Mark Ming in the same way that Menzies Campbell called himself Ming Campbell ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,974

    kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU.

    According to the BBC: Labour has said it has "no plans for a youth mobility scheme" if it wins the general election later this year.

    That's not really ruling it out is it?
    They need to understand that time has moved on . It’s not 2016 anymore .
    Labour will do a bit of tinkering in terms of our relationship with the EU but that's about it.

    All of the Remainers that have been pinning their hopes on Sir Keir reopening Brexit will soon be very disappointed IMO (along with everyone else that for the time being is pinning all their hopes and wishes and disillusionment with the current government on to Labour.

    In Opposition SKS has been able to be absolutely anything anyone wants him to be. That is coming to an end very soon...
    I don’t expect Rejoin but what I do expect is an effort to give younger people a chance to spend a few years in each other’s countries . Labour seem to think that their voters will keep putting up with this crap .
    Realign, renegotiate, rejoin, the 10 year plan.
    What do you mean 'realign' - we have never de-aligned.
    I'm sure they can think of something. There must be some EU programmes or policies that can be signed up to in exchange for some kind of concession.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,974
    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Crime or not, it is pretty apparent Murrell was at best an incompetent at running the SNP's finances and organisation, despite the party's electoral successes.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,908

    Forgive me if this has already been pointed out, but British Politics since 2010 makes a lot more sense if one assumes that *all* of the Conservative MPs have been blackmailed.

    I don't quite see where Ed vs David fits in to this idea, nor Corbyn.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,047

    So what are the chances of Mark Menzies spending a lot more time in a small room with 'bad people' in a HMP ?

    And does Mark Menzies pronounce his name Mark Ming in the same way that Menzies Campbell called himself Ming Campbell ?
    Still does, AFAIK.
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    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,909
    edited April 18

    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Oh dear, how sad. :lol:
    I've just eaten a whole pack of Jaffa Cakes. Now I have to open the popcorn too?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,777
    IanB2 said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    It's eminently plausible, given how paranoid they are about opening any opportunity for the Tories on Brexit, even when there's a big popularity upside. It's the same with pet passports - another clear win if Labour committed to rejoin the scheme: I wrote to their shadow minister who replied quickly completely dodging the question, and has then simply ignored every reminder I have sent him.

    Six months back they might have had a chance of my tactical vote, but Labour can go hang for it, they offer so little.
    Labour rhetoric on the EU will cause them problems I think when, as we assume, they become the next government. The problem is they don't acknowledge what most people in the UK think and what almost all Labour voters think, which is that Brexit was a big mistake.

    It's one thing to say, we are where we are, and we will always take a hard headed approach to negotiations with the EU, if the desired end goal is a closer relationship that mitigates some of the damage.

    But they are not prepared even to hint at any concrete improvements, nor can they articulate any advantages to the Brexit situation we're in because no-one thinks there are any. So people lose confidence in them
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,688
    edited April 18
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    Judge struggling to find 12 jurors in the Trump case.

    Hoping to start actual trial by Monday but lost two jurors this afternoon.

    They got 7 on the first day of proper jury selection, lost two of those, but called something like 500 people down for potential selection. Even with 50% self selecting out first up they will manage to get 12 jurors and 6 alternates, even if goes in to next week (which many legal people had been predicting in the first place).
    It’s not an easy job to find a dozen and more people in the US who have an impartial view of the guy, especially when they might be lying to try and get selected for the jury in the first place. Not surprised it’s taken all week.
    From the commentary from lawyers, it's going much faster than expected.

    I think they allowed 2-3 weeks.

    And they don't need an impartial view, they need to be able to set their view aside and decide on the evidence presented.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,141
    @StephenCVGraham

    'Aye, I was shut in wi' a bad man, can you shout me £600,000?'


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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,792
    This is cool.
    There is actually a semi-plausible technology for spacecraft fusion drive in experimental development.
    https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2023/09/20/a-fusion-drive-using-centrifugal-mirror-technologies/

    Possibly what the writers of For All Mankind were thinking about.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127

    They can fuck right off, lenders can do one.

    Whitehall blueprint for Thames Water nationalisation could see state take on bulk of £15bn debt

    Exclusive: Project Timber could see some lenders lose up to 40% of their money under the plans


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/18/whitehall-blueprint-for-thames-water-nationalisation-could-see-state-take-on-bulk-of-15bn-debt

    How about the lenders lose up to 100% and the taxpayer doesn't get involved?
    Too many foreign, especially Chinese, lenders and shareholders involved with Thames Water.

    Whitehall would prefer that British taxpayers get the cost.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,984
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/18/eu-deal-young-stay-four-years-freedom-movement-labour/

    A Labour spokesperson said: “This is a proposal from the EU Commission to EU member states, not to the UK. It has come about because the UK government is reportedly approaching other European countries to try to establish mobility arrangements.

    “Labour has no plans for a youth mobility scheme. We have already suggested some tangible ways that we would look to improve the relationship and deliver for British businesses and consumers, including seeking a veterinary agreement to tackle trade barriers, mutual recognition of professional qualifications and improved touring opportunities for artists.
    Thanks. But we're back to the 'no plans'. 'We have no plans' ≠ 'We rule it out'.
    It’s as good as ruling it out, isn’t it? “We have no plans to do that” is as good as saying it won’t happen.
    Sir Keir has broken almost every pledge he made in order to get the gig as Labour leader. In 2017 he was elected as an MP saying that it was ‘a matter of principle’ that MPs accept the Leave win. He then spent two years trying to force a second referendum where it was ‘an important point of principle’ that he would campaign for Remain.

    So why worry about what he says he will or don’t do?

    Then
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,370

    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Hahaha. Oh dear….
    I think that's a boom.
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    Oh dearie dearie me. Mr Sturgeon's not having a good day.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,688

    They can fuck right off, lenders can do one.

    Whitehall blueprint for Thames Water nationalisation could see state take on bulk of £15bn debt

    Exclusive: Project Timber could see some lenders lose up to 40% of their money under the plans


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/18/whitehall-blueprint-for-thames-water-nationalisation-could-see-state-take-on-bulk-of-15bn-debt

    How about the lenders lose up to 100% and the taxpayer doesn't get involved?
    Too many foreign, especially Chinese, lenders and shareholders involved with Thames Water.

    Whitehall would prefer that British taxpayers get the cost.
    I'd suggest that the model for this should be the Kuwait Investment Body and the BP float, where Mrs Thatcher made them follow the letter of the rules.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    Oh dearie dearie me. Mr Sturgeon's not having a good day.

    Another day, another SNP scandal, another day, another Troy MP blackmailed by a rent boy ...
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,765

    So what are the chances of Mark Menzies spending a lot more time in a small room with 'bad people' in a HMP ?

    And does Mark Menzies pronounce his name Mark Ming in the same way that Menzies Campbell called himself Ming Campbell ?
    Flash Gordon was always doing battle with the Emperor Ming. It never occurred to me, age 7, that it might be spelt Menzies.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,986

    They can fuck right off, lenders can do one.

    Whitehall blueprint for Thames Water nationalisation could see state take on bulk of £15bn debt

    Exclusive: Project Timber could see some lenders lose up to 40% of their money under the plans


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/18/whitehall-blueprint-for-thames-water-nationalisation-could-see-state-take-on-bulk-of-15bn-debt

    How about the lenders lose up to 100% and the taxpayer doesn't get involved?
    Too many foreign, especially Chinese, lenders and shareholders involved with Thames Water.

    Whitehall would prefer that British taxpayers get the cost.
    Why are we bailing commercial bondholders here and not for instance those wiped out when Wasps rfu went bust

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
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    Pulpstar said:

    Oh dearie dearie me. Mr Sturgeon's not having a good day.

    Another day, another SNP scandal, another day, another Troy MP blackmailed by a rent boy ...
    If its a day with a Y in it, a Tory MP will be getting blackmailed by a rent boy.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,319
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,895
    MPs with Tory whip down to 346, not that far above the 326 needed for a formal majority.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,378
    trukat said:

    RobD said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/18/eu-deal-young-stay-four-years-freedom-movement-labour/

    A Labour spokesperson said: “This is a proposal from the EU Commission to EU member states, not to the UK. It has come about because the UK government is reportedly approaching other European countries to try to establish mobility arrangements.

    “Labour has no plans for a youth mobility scheme. We have already suggested some tangible ways that we would look to improve the relationship and deliver for British businesses and consumers, including seeking a veterinary agreement to tackle trade barriers, mutual recognition of professional qualifications and improved touring opportunities for artists.
    Thanks. But we're back to the 'no plans'. 'We have no plans' ≠ 'We rule it out'.
    from the bbc

    And Labour has said it has "no plans for a youth mobility scheme" if it wins the general election later this year.

    A party spokesperson said it had already pledged "no return to the single market, customs union or free movement" if it takes office.

    Seems like they consider it to break the free movement pledge to me.
    Will surely depend on the nature of the scheme - which is why aren't going for it now but say no plans. Labour doesn't want to, even rhetorically, tie itself to anything it might not control ahead of time.

    Purely as a matter of political and economic gravity it will have to discuss these things with the EU. And if they poll well and are net positives for us, would be mad not to do deals.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,886
    isam said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/18/eu-deal-young-stay-four-years-freedom-movement-labour/

    A Labour spokesperson said: “This is a proposal from the EU Commission to EU member states, not to the UK. It has come about because the UK government is reportedly approaching other European countries to try to establish mobility arrangements.

    “Labour has no plans for a youth mobility scheme. We have already suggested some tangible ways that we would look to improve the relationship and deliver for British businesses and consumers, including seeking a veterinary agreement to tackle trade barriers, mutual recognition of professional qualifications and improved touring opportunities for artists.
    Thanks. But we're back to the 'no plans'. 'We have no plans' ≠ 'We rule it out'.
    It’s as good as ruling it out, isn’t it? “We have no plans to do that” is as good as saying it won’t happen.
    Sir Keir has broken almost every pledge he made in order to get the gig as Labour leader. In 2017 he was elected as an MP saying that it was ‘a matter of principle’ that MPs accept the Leave win. He then spent two years trying to force a second referendum where it was ‘an important point of principle’ that he would campaign for Remain.

    So why worry about what he says he will or don’t do?

    Then
    There's policy and there's politics and you're savvy enough to know the two aren't the same.

    Starmer is continuing to use the Mandelson schtick of reassuring former Conservative voters he'll be a "safe pair of hands" and they'll have nothing to worry about if he becomes Prime Minister. He'll do that right up to the point of the final vote being cast and those who may oppose him in the Party are naturally placated by the prospect of victory which is the greatest way of enforcing party discipline there is.

    Who cares what he said in 2016 or 2019 - it's 2024. Blair stood on the suicide note in 1983 but no one was bothered about that by the 1990s. In a political party, the main virtues are loyalty and loyalty. That means you go with what the party decides until you can either stand it no longer and leave or you are in a position to enforce policy change.

    Once it becomes your policy, yes, you have to stand or fall on it but parties evolve or if you prefer do whatever they feel they need to do to win. Johnson, for example, seemed to spend most of the 2019 campaign attacking the Government which he led and running almost as an Opposition leader against himself. It was a masterstroke - Starmer has simply to keep pointing to the Conservatives in Government since December 2019. Ordinarily, that wouldn't be enough but when the Government is polling around 20% it'll probably win him a huge landslide.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    Do you regret your vote for Brexit now? I know you hoped for a far more sensible trading outcome, but wish you had voted remain?
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,543

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    If it doesn't happen now, it moves to autumn.

    And it can't move to autumn, because there's no way the government will want to risk it going pear shaped in the runup to an election.

    So it becomes another "no plans to" problem for the next government.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,249

    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Ho ho ho.

    Scotch expertise strikes again.
    Which piece of expertise did you have in mind?
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    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,636

    CatMan said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088

    "The husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National Party."

    Oh dear, how sad. :lol:
    I've just eaten a whole pack of Jaffa Cakes. Now I have to open the popcorn too?
    Indulging in a deep-fried Mars Bar (washed down with Irn-Bru) might be more appropriate?
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    Andy_JS said:

    MPs with Tory whip down to 346, not that far above the 326 needed for a formal majority.

    Just need 20 more shaggers/tax dodgers/drink drivers/racists/general deviants to step up and do their duty.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,126
    Note no alternative Tory leader does any better than Sunak in the same poll apart from Mordaunt who only does fractionally better.

    The key for the Conservatives is to get immigration down with the new tighter Visa rules to win back Reform voters and grow the economy more and get inflation down further to win back some voters from Labour
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    nico679 said:

    There is no chance of a conviction in any of the Trump trials .

    You’ll always have the odd jury member that’s part of the Trump Cult .

    The Jean Carroll jury found him guilty. At least 2 grand juries have supported charges.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,127
    Pulpstar said:

    They can fuck right off, lenders can do one.

    Whitehall blueprint for Thames Water nationalisation could see state take on bulk of £15bn debt

    Exclusive: Project Timber could see some lenders lose up to 40% of their money under the plans


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/18/whitehall-blueprint-for-thames-water-nationalisation-could-see-state-take-on-bulk-of-15bn-debt

    How about the lenders lose up to 100% and the taxpayer doesn't get involved?
    Too many foreign, especially Chinese, lenders and shareholders involved with Thames Water.

    Whitehall would prefer that British taxpayers get the cost.
    Why are we bailing commercial bondholders here and not for instance those wiped out when Wasps rfu went bust

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rugbypass.com/news/wasps-re-emergence-raises-more-questions-than-it-answers/
    Surely you can hear Whitehall and the City blahing on and on about the importance of maintaining the UK's reputation as a safe place for foreign finance to invest in ?

    The people who lost money from Wasps were 'little people' from Coventry and so deemed of no importance by comparison.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    It's one thing to decide we don't want to make the checks and to not make them. It's quite another to repeatedly say we are going to introduce the checks and then repeatedly postpone doing so, creating uncertainty and expense.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,319

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    Do you regret your vote for Brexit now? I know you hoped for a far more sensible trading outcome, but wish you had voted remain?
    Have I not said that enough? Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. For some reason I expected that the British government wasn't an utter fiasco. "Border Target Operating Model" - which we didn't build sufficient physical capacity to implement.

    And people still want people to vote Tory. For what? More shithousery?
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    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,636

    So what are the chances of Mark Menzies spending a lot more time in a small room with 'bad people' in a HMP ?

    And does Mark Menzies pronounce his name Mark Ming in the same way that Menzies Campbell called himself Ming Campbell ?
    Flash Gordon was always doing battle with the Emperor Ming. It never occurred to me, age 7, that it might be spelt Menzies.
    Flash Gordon comic strip was reason Australian jornos dubbed long-time PM Robert Menzies "Ming the Merciless".
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    I'm sure it has been noted but Savanta give Street a 2% lead in the WM

    C 40, Lab 38, Ref 7, LD 6, Green 5, Yakoob 5

    I suspect a lot of us think this is closer to the real picture than R&W. Savanta tends to be less brutal for the Cons than some others. Not too long until we see who is closer to reality!
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,895
    West Ham 1
    Leverkusen 0

    18 mins
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    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    It's one thing to decide we don't want to make the checks and to not make them. It's quite another to repeatedly say we are going to introduce the checks and then repeatedly postpone doing so, creating uncertainty and expense.
    Indeed, which is why I have said for years we should simply say we are not introducing these checks, but nor should we align with the EU.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,984
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/18/eu-deal-young-stay-four-years-freedom-movement-labour/

    A Labour spokesperson said: “This is a proposal from the EU Commission to EU member states, not to the UK. It has come about because the UK government is reportedly approaching other European countries to try to establish mobility arrangements.

    “Labour has no plans for a youth mobility scheme. We have already suggested some tangible ways that we would look to improve the relationship and deliver for British businesses and consumers, including seeking a veterinary agreement to tackle trade barriers, mutual recognition of professional qualifications and improved touring opportunities for artists.
    Thanks. But we're back to the 'no plans'. 'We have no plans' ≠ 'We rule it out'.
    It’s as good as ruling it out, isn’t it? “We have no plans to do that” is as good as saying it won’t happen.
    Sir Keir has broken almost every pledge he made in order to get the gig as Labour leader. In 2017 he was elected as an MP saying that it was ‘a matter of principle’ that MPs accept the Leave win. He then spent two years trying to force a second referendum where it was ‘an important point of principle’ that he would campaign for Remain.

    So why worry about what he says he will or don’t do?

    Then
    There's policy and there's politics and you're savvy enough to know the two aren't the same.

    Starmer is continuing to use the Mandelson schtick of reassuring former Conservative voters he'll be a "safe pair of hands" and they'll have nothing to worry about if he becomes Prime Minister. He'll do that right up to the point of the final vote being cast and those who may oppose him in the Party are naturally placated by the prospect of victory which is the greatest way of enforcing party discipline there is.

    Who cares what he said in 2016 or 2019 - it's 2024. Blair stood on the suicide note in 1983 but no one was bothered about that by the 1990s. In a political party, the main virtues are loyalty and loyalty. That means you go with what the party decides until you can either stand it no longer and leave or you are in a position to enforce policy change.

    Once it becomes your policy, yes, you have to stand or fall on it but parties evolve or if you prefer do whatever they feel they need to do to win. Johnson, for example, seemed to spend most of the 2019 campaign attacking the Government which he led and running almost as an Opposition leader against himself. It was a masterstroke - Starmer has simply to keep pointing to the Conservatives in Government since December 2019. Ordinarily, that wouldn't be enough but when the Government is polling around 20% it'll probably win him a huge landslide.
    I’m not saying he won’t be PM, just that it’s not worth worrying about what he says he will or won’t do because he never keeps his word anyway.



  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,456

    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU.

    They’ve what?
    Yes that’s what they’ve said . It’s shocking .
    Link?
    What a silly decision.

    Starmer has won and he needs to stop stressing about the likes of Braverman and the ERG

    I think it would be an excellent agreement
    I’m a fucking Leaver and would still vote Leave and I think this is INSANE from Labour. It’s a generous offer from the EU. What the fuck is Labour doing??
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,319

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    We are hurting ourselves. All imports need reams of paperwork specifically for the checks we're no longer going to implement.

    I have no problem scrapping BTOM. But we can't do so by merely not bothering. We need to change the treaty so that importing nations are not treaty bound to impose large costs and delays. Its beyond stupid.

    As for "needlessly tie ourselves to our standards" - lets assume we have imposed higher standards. As you suggest. How do we impose those? When we don't check? We would need the checks - otherwise we get whatever they send.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    Do you regret your vote for Brexit now? I know you hoped for a far more sensible trading outcome, but wish you had voted remain?
    Have I not said that enough? Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa. For some reason I expected that the British government wasn't an utter fiasco. "Border Target Operating Model" - which we didn't build sufficient physical capacity to implement.

    And people still want people to vote Tory. For what? More shithousery?
    Fair enough. I suspect the Tory voters left are habitual Tory voters. Change is coming - let’s just hope we get some adults in the room again.
  • Options

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    We are hurting ourselves. All imports need reams of paperwork specifically for the checks we're no longer going to implement.

    I have no problem scrapping BTOM. But we can't do so by merely not bothering. We need to change the treaty so that importing nations are not treaty bound to impose large costs and delays. Its beyond stupid.

    As for "needlessly tie ourselves to our standards" - lets assume we have imposed higher standards. As you suggest. How do we impose those? When we don't check? We would need the checks - otherwise we get whatever they send.
    We set our standards at however we want to set them, and recognise theirs as equivalent even if not the same.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    It's one thing to decide we don't want to make the checks and to not make them. It's quite another to repeatedly say we are going to introduce the checks and then repeatedly postpone doing so, creating uncertainty and expense.
    Indeed, which is why I have said for years we should simply say we are not introducing these checks, but nor should we align with the EU.
    Well, you have many ideas, some of which might be pretty good ideas, but your ideas don't really matter. What matters is the approach of the UK Government.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,319
    So Mr Sturgeon “had been charged in connection with the embezzlement of funds from the Scottish National party”.

    Pah. They don't have much money to embezzle. Proper politicians embezzle money from the taxpayer. To buy yachts and mansions.
  • Options

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    It's one thing to decide we don't want to make the checks and to not make them. It's quite another to repeatedly say we are going to introduce the checks and then repeatedly postpone doing so, creating uncertainty and expense.
    Indeed, which is why I have said for years we should simply say we are not introducing these checks, but nor should we align with the EU.
    Well, you have many ideas, some of which might be pretty good ideas, but your ideas don't really matter. What matters is the approach of the UK Government.
    If the Government were implementing my ideas, I'd be voting for them.

    I intend to vote against this Government.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,636
    Think you can scratch Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee from list of potential Trump VP picks

    Audit of $19,000 lectern purchase for Arkansas governor released
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4yk0ILc9CM

    Daughter of former Gov, POTUS-hopeful and full-time God-Botherer Mike Huckabee. Who can be seen VERY frequently flogging something on El Cheapo broadcast TV.

    The rotten crab-apple does NOT fall far from the rotten crab-apple tree.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,275
    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    TimS said:

    nico679 said:

    Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU.

    They’ve what?
    Yes that’s what they’ve said . It’s shocking .
    Link?
    What a silly decision.

    Starmer has won and he needs to stop stressing about the likes of Braverman and the ERG

    I think it would be an excellent agreement
    I’m a fucking Leaver and would still vote Leave and I think this is INSANE from Labour. It’s a generous offer from the EU. What the fuck is Labour doing??
    Everything they can not to scare the voters, I suspect. It’s reminiscent of 1996-97. Blair didn’t believe that they would really get the landslide that was coming. Starmer is nervous now. Don’t scare the horses.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,456

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sub Truss ! Blimey.

    Personally I think he's not doing too bad a job, but I have to admit communication isn't his forté.

    Sub Truss?

    Chortle.
    The day collar discussion is not needed...
    A discussion we are only having because I spotted it after watcing her debate for two minutes. Ahem
    Was it ever established beyond your fruitier ramblings and because it fitted with her being a bit a shagger in the past that it is a 'day collar'? Doing a Google lense search of it seems to bring up fashion pieces that look exactly the same. I thought there must be something different about the bale that made it 'the bondage version', but can't find any evidence of that. So as fun a rumour as it is, I'm calling bullshit and going to say she's wearing it because it's a nice piece of jewellery her hubbie bought her.
    Ask @TOPPING
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,319

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    We are hurting ourselves. All imports need reams of paperwork specifically for the checks we're no longer going to implement.

    I have no problem scrapping BTOM. But we can't do so by merely not bothering. We need to change the treaty so that importing nations are not treaty bound to impose large costs and delays. Its beyond stupid.

    As for "needlessly tie ourselves to our standards" - lets assume we have imposed higher standards. As you suggest. How do we impose those? When we don't check? We would need the checks - otherwise we get whatever they send.
    We set our standards at however we want to set them, and recognise theirs as equivalent even if not the same.
    I know that importing food is my job and not yours, so I'm not as clued up as you, but huh?

    So we set standard A++ and the EU standard is A. We recognise theirs as equivalent and wave it through. So what is the point in A++? Do you mean only for UK producers?

    So you want to set a higher cost standard for UK products consumed domestically. Our costs go up making imports relatively cheaper. And as our products cost more our ability to export is reduced even further.

    Sounds great!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,210

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    How can you manage to be so wrong about absolutely everything? Your hard man posturing about them needing us more than we need themselves. FFS. It’s an us problem because they have no impediments to import to us but can impede our exports nevertheless. We have found out we can’t retaliate. We’ve erected a trade barrier
    against ourselves. You’ve ruined your children’s future because of fucking posturing Ayn Rand individualism which never worked, doesn’t work, and will never work.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,636
    Getting this error message re: commenting on NEW THREAD

    Failed to find discussion for commenting.
    DiscussionID is required.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,210

    .

    Scott_xP said:

    @Nicoledso

    Brexit border checks delayed again as will cause higher costs and disruption at the border

    UK will not ‘turn on’ post-Brexit checks of EU goods for fear of border delays https://on.ft.com/446Ws4K

    FFS...

    Prediction - they will never turn this on. We don't physically have the capability of carrying out these checks.

    And yet, despite that, our trading partners in the EU are treaty bound to implement BTOM in full. Generation of paperwork for physical checks that will not take place.

    This fucking country. Seriously. What a shambles.
    What's the problem?

    If we don't want to make the checks, there's no reason why we should.

    If they do, that's a them problem, not an us problem.

    No reason why we should hurt ourselves by implementing needless checks, nor tie ourselves needlessly to their standards.
    We are hurting ourselves. All imports need reams of paperwork specifically for the checks we're no longer going to implement.

    I have no problem scrapping BTOM. But we can't do so by merely not bothering. We need to change the treaty so that importing nations are not treaty bound to impose large costs and delays. Its beyond stupid.

    As for "needlessly tie ourselves to our standards" - lets assume we have imposed higher standards. As you suggest. How do we impose those? When we don't check? We would need the checks - otherwise we get whatever they send.
    We set our standards at however we want to set them, and recognise theirs as equivalent even if not the same.
    But you’ve abandoned any checks on standards. So we effectively have no standards. Like your parents.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,563

    Getting this error message re: commenting on NEW THREAD

    Failed to find discussion for commenting.
    DiscussionID is required.

    Should work now
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,958

    They can fuck right off, lenders can do one.

    Whitehall blueprint for Thames Water nationalisation could see state take on bulk of £15bn debt

    Exclusive: Project Timber could see some lenders lose up to 40% of their money under the plans


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/apr/18/whitehall-blueprint-for-thames-water-nationalisation-could-see-state-take-on-bulk-of-15bn-debt

    How about the lenders lose up to 100% and the taxpayer doesn't get involved?
    I think you'll find that this is what 'levelling up' means. I'm sure the people of Yorkshire and Cornwall will be doffing their caps in joy at this news.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,406
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    This is doing my head in now. A whole sub-thread has appeared based on @nico679's assertion (18:25): "Ridiculous decision by Labour to rule out a youth mobility scheme with the EU."

    I'd just like somebody, anybody, to provide the evidence for that assertion - then I can join in. Until then, how do I know this isn't fake news?

    It's eminently plausible, given how paranoid they are about opening any opportunity for the Tories on Brexit, even when there's a big popularity upside. It's the same with pet passports - another clear win if Labour committed to rejoin the scheme: I wrote to their shadow minister who replied quickly completely dodging the question, and has then simply ignored every reminder I have sent him.

    Six months back they might have had a chance of my tactical vote, but Labour can go hang for it, they offer so little.
    I thought you lived on the IoW? Are thr Lib Dems no longer the main challenger to the Tories?
    Welcome, traveller from the past!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,517
    edited April 18
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sub Truss ! Blimey.

    Personally I think he's not doing too bad a job, but I have to admit communication isn't his forté.

    Sub Truss?

    Chortle.
    The day collar discussion is not needed...
    A discussion we are only having because I spotted it after watcing her debate for two minutes. Ahem
    Was it ever established beyond your fruitier ramblings and because it fitted with her being a bit a shagger in the past that it is a 'day collar'? Doing a Google lense search of it seems to bring up fashion pieces that look exactly the same. I thought there must be something different about the bale that made it 'the bondage version', but can't find any evidence of that. So as fun a rumour as it is, I'm calling bullshit and going to say she's wearing it because it's a nice piece of jewellery her hubbie bought her.
    Ask @TOPPING
    Topping, can you offer some validation on the gimp necklace theory please?
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