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The world is changed – politicalbetting.com

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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Taz said:

    Off on the X21 to the toon now. Drink and lunch. Enjoy your day one and all and enjoy the horse racing or the soccer or the womens rugby.

    Don’t forget to fill your car up ASAP too. War is coming.

    Fill it with what? Weapons?

    Have a good day!
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981
    edited April 13
    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    And here you are with your 21st century take on the blood libel. It has a lengthy pedigree. cf:

    The first case of the blood libel in Europe in the Middle Ages was that of William of Norwich in 1144. The Jews of Norwich, England, were charged with ritual murder after the body of a young boy (William) was discovered stabbed to death in the woods. In this case, the Jews of Norwich were alleged to have "bought a Christian child [the 'boy-martyr' William] before Easter and tortured him with all the tortures wherewith our Lord was tortured, and on Long Friday hanged him on a rood in hatred of our Lord."

    Subsequent cases were recorded in Gloucester, England (1168); Blois, France (1171); Saragossa, Spain (1182); Bristol, England (1183); Fulda, Germany (1235); Lincoln, England (1255); and Munich, Germany (1286). Medieval poet Geoffrey Chaucer's "The Prioress's Tale" (in The Canterbury Tales) also invokes the blood libel motif, describing Jews as aroused by satanic urges to murder Christian children.

    The motif of the Jewish need for Christian blood spread throughout the Middle Ages. It was combined with allegations of well-poisoning by Jews during the time of the Black Death in the middle of the 14th century. By the 15th century, the motif was commonplace throughout western and central Europe. It often gave rise to legends around miracles performed by the alleged victims of the blood libels. In 1475, a 2-year old boy named Simon disappeared from the city of Trent in Italy around the time of Easter. His father alleged that he had been kidnapped and murdered by the local Jewish community in order to make matzah for Passover. The entire Jewish community was arrested and forced to confess under torture before they were sentenced to death and burned at the stake. After hundreds of miracles were ascribed to Simon of Trent, a religious cult spread across Italy, Germany, and Austria in his name and he was granted sainthood in the 16th century (subsequently removed by the pope in 1965).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,856
    edited April 13
    kjh said:

    Nigelb said:

    Donkeys said:

    Angela Rayner and her husband re-registered their children's births after they got married in 2010. That's a legal requirement and therefore there's nothing peculiar about it. But if the form then was the same as it is now (the LA1) then both the mother and father would have had to fill in their addresses. What did she put for hers?

    It would be interesting to know. I should add that I don't think there's an obligation to put your "permanent" address, or even where you're living most of the time. If you wanted to put a correspondence address or if you maintained a home separate from your husband's and you wanted to put his address as yours to keep things simple, I don't think you'd be breaking the law.

    Would it ?

    For electoral purposes, you can have more than one 'permanent address', providing each has 'elements of' permanence. Though that is admittedly unusual, it's far from unknown.

    So a discrepancy between permanent addresses registered for different matters isn't necessarily a massive gotcha.

    Given they were (I think) in the same constituency, this seems an enormous waste of police time. And political attention.
    Yes I heard on the news today that both addresses were in Stockport. If they are in the same constituency and there is only one Stockport constituency so seems likely (but not definite) then this is a huge waste of time. Also I am confused about the issue of having multiple addresses. Certainly students do have multiple addresses for election purposes and I certainly did when at University and as long as you only vote in one for any particular election that is perfectly legal. We have two home, but live in one much more than the other, but I have always assumed I could register in either. We are only registered in one. Certainly PPCs often have a very temporary rented home in a constituency prior to becoming an MP to register themselves as locals in the electorates mind (although I don't know if they then put themselves on the electoral register, but I assume they would). I can think of numerous MPs who have done this.
    Also, as I have observed, there are special family circumstances (adaptation of house 2) which immediately suggest a longer interim period than usual. Completing school years, for instance, is yet another.

    There's too much of all this reminiscent of the rsuh in the good old days of Merie England (vide: Our Island Story) to see the local stroppy woman stabbed all over with pins, and ducked, just in case she might possibly be a witch. Of course, when it was all over and she was drowned, i.e. proved not to be a witch, it was too late to say sorry ...
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578
    edited April 13

    Taz said:

    Off on the X21 to the toon now. Drink and lunch. Enjoy your day one and all and enjoy the horse racing or the soccer or the womens rugby.

    Don’t forget to fill your car up ASAP too. War is coming.

    Fill it with what? Weapons?

    Have a good day!
    With fuel!!

    Top tip: get a diesel car. You're only allowed to store 30 litres of petrol, but there's no limit to how much diesel you can stock up on.

    As for an electric vehicle, a fat lot of good that'll do anyone when mains power goes out.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,856
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    What's the point of being a Brexiter then?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    What's the point of being a Brexiter then?
    Better for the country in the long run. Cf AI laws

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-ai-the-biggest-brexit-benefit/

    EU citizens STILL can't properly use the best AI in the world: Claude 3 Opus. Because of their stupid restrictive laws that no one wanted, and no one voted for. This is gonna be a huge issue soon, but I won't go into it because I'm not allowed to talk too much about AI (and fair enough!)

    My personal residency plans are neither here nor there, really. I travelled half the year before Brexit, same after
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Anyone got any tips for The Grand National?

    Don't bet on it.

    Actually in the 80s when I worked in a large organisation I used do a whip round and back the worse horse in the field. The greatest joy was the panic on the bookies face when I placed the bet. They always had to go and make a phone call to establish whether they could take the bet. They always did. I assume establishing I was a loon rather than part of some plot.

    One year the horse was Double You Again. I had it at 1000-1 and had probably several hundred pounds on it each way. It was leading with 1 or 2 fences to go but got taken out by loose horses refusing to jump. I thought everyone would be disappointed but they were over the moon, having had a great day of excitement.
    I should add most years the horse we backed stopped and ate the privet from the first fence (and yes I know it isn't privet).
    Last winner I had was Miinehoma
    Mine was Red Rum!

    My late uncle was a racing fan, and said he'd put a bet on for me alongsidehis choices, which horse did I want? I picked the only one I had heard of!
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    edited April 13
    ..
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Donkeys said:

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030

    They shut the conference using more than 900 polizei.
    Clearly what he might have or would have said was considered a threat.
    Even Karl Liebknecht got a few words out ("Down with the war. Down with the government") before he was arrested and jailed.
    Germany taking what was likely very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism rather seriously. Who’d have thought it?
    What was likely very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism? Sounds like you’re a bit of an expert on these events, do tell me more.
    I’m as much of an ‘expert’ as anyone else at reading the news, and there’s a very long history of these “Palestine Conference” events being little more than a long line of anti-Semites spewing bile, but they’re good at inviting a few genuine guests just to give the veneer of legitimacy, and to let them complain when the event gets shut down.

    We saw this play out dozens of times when Jeremy Corbyn was around. Funnily enough, Germany takes these things a lot more seriously than most countries, for the obvious historical reasons.
    I presume you’re not so keen on ‘obvious historical reasons’ when it came to Germany being a little too obliging to the former Soviet Union.

    It’s understandable that these things happen, if not desirable; the over compensating thing is everywhere, not just Germany. I mean if Scotland had invented the blood libel, been one of the first European countries to expel its Jews and had contrived to be Judenfrei for 300+ years I might be tempted to shrieking prolapses on hearing any conjunction of ‘river’, ‘sea’ and ‘free’.
    But it didn’t, so I’m not.
  • Options
    northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,520
    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,655
    Donkeys said:

    Taz said:

    Off on the X21 to the toon now. Drink and lunch. Enjoy your day one and all and enjoy the horse racing or the soccer or the womens rugby.

    Don’t forget to fill your car up ASAP too. War is coming.

    Fill it with what? Weapons?

    Have a good day!
    With fuel!!

    Top tip: get a diesel car. You're only allowed to store 30 litres of petrol, but there's no limit to how much diesel you can stock up on.

    As for an electric vehicle, a fat lot of good that'll do anyone when mains power goes out.
    I remember a story a few years back about a taxi driver from Derby who had a couple of plastic dustbins full of diesel in his basement. It didn't end well.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,012
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    What's the point of being a Brexiter then?
    Same reason burglars shit in the kettle before they leave.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    I've seen Israel go from a rather lovely liberal country, feminist and democratic, to becoming close to an apartheid state, with lots of extreme racism aimed at ALL Arabs/Muslims, especially Palestinians

    It is very very sad. But of course it is explicable, the Palestinians are just as bad in reverse, they don't just want their own nice little state. lots and lots of them fiercely loathe Jews per se, and would gleefully see them all killed (see October 7), and this anti-Semitism precedes the establishment of the Jewish state, it is encoded into Islam (though of course it has got much worse since the Naqba)

    What can you do when you have two neighbouring sides that want to do a genocide on the other? In the end, I fear, some form of genocide will happen. The Israelis are having a go first before the Iranians get nukes
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578
    edited April 13

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    And here you are with your 21st century take on the blood libel. It has a lengthy pedigree. cf:

    The first case of the blood libel in Europe in the Middle Ages was that of William of Norwich in 1144. The Jews of Norwich, England, were charged with ritual murder after the body of a young boy (William) was discovered stabbed to death in the woods. In this case, the Jews of Norwich were alleged to have "bought a Christian child [the 'boy-martyr' William] before Easter and tortured him with all the tortures wherewith our Lord was tortured, and on Long Friday hanged him on a rood in hatred of our Lord."

    Subsequent cases were recorded in Gloucester, England (1168); Blois, France (1171); Saragossa, Spain (1182); Bristol, England (1183); Fulda, Germany (1235); Lincoln, England (1255); and Munich, Germany (1286). Medieval poet Geoffrey Chaucer's "The Prioress's Tale" (in The Canterbury Tales) also invokes the blood libel motif, describing Jews as aroused by satanic urges to murder Christian children.

    The motif of the Jewish need for Christian blood spread throughout the Middle Ages. It was combined with allegations of well-poisoning by Jews during the time of the Black Death in the middle of the 14th century. By the 15th century, the motif was commonplace throughout western and central Europe. It often gave rise to legends around miracles performed by the alleged victims of the blood libels. In 1475, a 2-year old boy named Simon disappeared from the city of Trent in Italy around the time of Easter. His father alleged that he had been kidnapped and murdered by the local Jewish community in order to make matzah for Passover. The entire Jewish community was arrested and forced to confess under torture before they were sentenced to death and burned at the stake. After hundreds of miracles were ascribed to Simon of Trent, a religious cult spread across Italy, Germany, and Austria in his name and he was granted sainthood in the 16th century (subsequently removed by the pope in 1965).
    Irrelevant shit, that you are citing to obscure a factual post about those who right now are committing genocide.

    Get some ethics.

    I could not give a damn what happened in Norwich in the 12th century. Those who hate the racism and genocide of the past for their inhumanity hate racism and genocide now.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    It's really not. I've travelled widely in Israel and this exceptionally racist rhetoric, from Israelis, is real and growing. And for the purposes of clarity I think Israel was completely entitled to hit back hard after October 7: Israel had no choice
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    What's the point of being a Brexiter then?
    Same reason burglars shit in the kettle before they leave.
    Enjoy your tea, old boy

    ;)
  • Options
    northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,520

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    Why? Are they false quotes?

    I’m not seeking to take sides here, it’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions that has deep historical roots. Extremists on both sides are equally complicit.

    I just find it remarkable, if the quotes are true, how eerily extremist Israeli rhetoric echoes that of the Nazis.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578
    edited April 13
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Donkeys said:

    I fear there’s something a bit whiffy in the state of Germany.
    Of course for some folk this will overcome their instinctive Germanophobia and they’ll be slapping their flippers together at any criticism of the state of Israel characterised as antisemitism and being shut down.



    https://x.com/JKSteinberger/status/1778923497638478030

    They shut the conference using more than 900 polizei.
    Clearly what he might have or would have said was considered a threat.
    Even Karl Liebknecht got a few words out ("Down with the war. Down with the government") before he was arrested and jailed.
    Germany taking what was likely very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism rather seriously. Who’d have thought it?
    What was likely very thinly-veiled anti-Semitism? Sounds like you’re a bit of an expert on these events, do tell me more.
    I’m as much of an ‘expert’ as anyone else at reading the news, and there’s a very long history of these “Palestine Conference” events being little more than a long line of anti-Semites spewing bile, but they’re good at inviting a few genuine guests just to give the veneer of legitimacy, and to let them complain when the event gets shut down.

    We saw this play out dozens of times when Jeremy Corbyn was around. Funnily enough, Germany takes these things a lot more seriously than most countries, for the obvious historical reasons.
    The only way Germany is taking the ongoing genocide seriously is by being complicit in it, including by stopping people talking about it.

    Can you explain how your approach differs from that of a policeman who fits someone up and says with moral indignation that OK, OK, maybe that bloke didn't commit that particular offence but he's very experienced, he knows the type he's dealing with, and the bloke probably committed the same offence on 10 other occasions and got away with it?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Why people like Rayner is beyond me.

    Middle class people and centrist dad podcasts like her as a working class gal made good. It’s the same as having a black friend. I cannot be prejudiced because…..

    Rayner has questions to answer, has been shifty and evasive in her response, and was very quick to demand Tories stand down when under investigation. I think, at worst, if there is an issue with the tax she didn’t pay it is inadvertent and down to the complexities of the system.

    However her side happily make hay with such nonsense. Live by the sword die by the sword.
    I like Rayner because she has character, unlike 95% of politicians and people in leadership positions you meet in real life. None of that removes a requirement to be ethical. If you wish to assign my soft spot for Rayner to being the type of person who disguises their priors through having token black friends, please feel free.

    By the way if it really is your "at worst" Rayner doesn't in fact have a case to answer.
    I also like Mordaunt and Dorries for similar reasons. But - on topic - I have never liked Johnson. His "authenticity" is clearly fake. That people didn't see through him from day 1 has always irritated me slightly.



  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    Why? Are they false quotes?

    I’m not seeking to take sides here, it’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions that has deep historical roots. Extremists on both sides are equally complicit.

    I just find it remarkable, if the quotes are true, how eerily extremist Israeli rhetoric echoes that of the Nazis.
    They're not reputable sources, and come from a poster who spends most of the time posting guff about red heifers.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,960
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    I've lost friends to Portugal and Dubai in the last year. I could do Portgual, for much the same reasons you'd consider Spain. Dubai isn't my scene.

    I worry if I move to Thailand I'll end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel...
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,779
    Hello from Dublin. Just checked the GDP per head figures and according to the IMF Ireland is number 2 in the list, behind only Luxembourg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#Table
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    Why? Are they false quotes?

    I’m not seeking to take sides here, it’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions that has deep historical roots. Extremists on both sides are equally complicit.

    I just find it remarkable, if the quotes are true, how eerily extremist Israeli rhetoric echoes that of the Nazis.
    Stick to your guns

    Basically @ThomasNashe is claiming that noting the rise of the Nazi party in Germany in the 1920s is "Germanophobic". It's effing ridiculous. These extreme racist elements have, calamitously, entered mainstream Israeli discourse, I've watched it happen personally, over many visits to Israel

    That does not remotely exponerate Hamas or IS or Hezbollah or any of these vile Islamist cults. They are easily as bad, and in some cases considerably worse
  • Options

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    Why? Are they false quotes?

    I’m not seeking to take sides here, it’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions that has deep historical roots. Extremists on both sides are equally complicit.

    I just find it remarkable, if the quotes are true, how eerily extremist Israeli rhetoric echoes that of the Nazis.
    Yes its false antisemitic lies.

    Tragically sad blood libel down the years. About as honest as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion etc
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,914
    Australia is excellent in every way except for their drug users, who are far more aggressive than ours. It's to do with the difficulty importing traditional drugs (a lesson there for the UK perhaps).

    I don't know what's happened in Sydney but do not rule out a drugs/mental health episode.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    edited April 13
    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    I've lost friends to Portugal and Dubai in the last year. I could do Portgual, for much the same reasons you'd consider Spain. Dubai isn't my scene.

    I worry if I move to Thailand I'll end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel...
    Yeah I couldn't do Dubai, for the same

    As for the far east, don't we all end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel, anyway?

    Potugal I love but the food is so poor and repetitive, I DO like the people and the scenery. Ibiza has a remarkable buzz for somewhere so tiny. Yes there's the silly Brit clubbing rave scene but that's getting smaller and away from that it is very arty and cultured, lots of clever expats from all over the world, who all speak English first, which is good, and as it is so compact you can meet them all easily

    My main demand is a climate where I can sit outside on a balcony most mornings of the year, sipping coffee. A handful of interesting people to see in nice envrionments. Minimal crime and grot. A sunlit square for wine. And somewhere nice to hike and - even better - swim. Ibiza does all that and it has a good airport with excellent links to London, Madrid, Barcelona as hubs

    I could rent out my London flat and get somewhere considerably bigger in Ibiza, with cash left over. And I would still do the Far East in the winter months


  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,658
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Why people like Rayner is beyond me.

    Middle class people and centrist dad podcasts like her as a working class gal made good. It’s the same as having a black friend. I cannot be prejudiced because…..

    Rayner has questions to answer, has been shifty and evasive in her response, and was very quick to demand Tories stand down when under investigation. I think, at worst, if there is an issue with the tax she didn’t pay it is inadvertent and down to the complexities of the system.

    However her side happily make hay with such nonsense. Live by the sword die by the sword.
    I like Rayner because she has character, unlike 95% of politicians and people in leadership positions you meet in real life. None of that removes a requirement to be ethical. If you wish to assign my soft spot for Rayner to being the type of person who disguises their priors through having token black friends, please feel free.

    By the way if it really is your "at worst" Rayner doesn't in fact have a case to answer.
    I also like Mordaunt and Dorries for similar reasons. But - on topic - I have never liked Johnson. His "authenticity" is clearly fake. That people didn't see through him from day 1 has always irritated me slightly.



    I like Mourdant, but there doesn't seem to be any depth, although of the lot she is the one I am nearest to politically
    I like Rayner, but our politics are miles apart
    I think Dorries is an idiot
    I liked Johnson when he wasn't running anything as being fun, but clearly fake, and so was completely unsuited to be PM. I'm struggling to think of how he did as mayor.
  • Options

    I live near Basingstoke

    Sorry to hear that.
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    edited April 13
    Andy_JS said:

    Hello from Dublin. Just checked the GDP per head figures and according to the IMF Ireland is number 2 in the list, behind only Luxembourg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#Table

    The Irish governments own statistics office will tell you that the headline figure, whilst calculated according to the way these things are done, also doesnt anywhere near reflect the actual wealth of the country due to the skew of multinationals passing income through their Irish subsidiaries.... a small cohort of your big global names contributing to GDP without any proportionate local economic activity. The money then exits the country.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,521
    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    It's really not. I've travelled widely in Israel and this exceptionally racist rhetoric, from Israelis, is real and growing. And for the purposes of clarity I think Israel was completely entitled to hit back hard after October 7: Israel had no choice
    Sadly, the surprise was that it was ever different.

    The world would clearly be a better place if humans remembered what it was like when they were the ones under someone else's heel- there are great chunks of the Old and New Testaments making that very point.

    But as a general rule, we don't.

    (Apart from bastard slugs eating my basil seedlings. They can go to a salty hell.)
  • Options
    I wonder if in some parallel universe Israel would have acted within international law and proportionately against the Hamas threat or is the way they have behaved always inevitable?
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Leon said:

    I've seen Israel go from a rather lovely liberal country, feminist and democratic, to becoming close to an apartheid state, with lots of extreme racism aimed at ALL Arabs/Muslims, especially Palestinians

    It is very very sad. But of course it is explicable, the Palestinians are just as bad in reverse, they don't just want their own nice little state. lots and lots of them fiercely loathe Jews per se, and would gleefully see them all killed (see October 7), and this anti-Semitism precedes the establishment of the Jewish state, it is encoded into Islam (though of course it has got much worse since the Naqba)

    What can you do when you have two neighbouring sides that want to do a genocide on the other? In the end, I fear, some form of genocide will happen. The Israelis are having a go first before the Iranians get nukes

    Its the immigrants of recent decades rather than the descendants of the large post WW2 migration that have delivered much of the rightward direction.
  • Options
    kjh said:

    I liked Johnson when he wasn't running anything as being fun, but clearly fake, and so was completely unsuited to be PM. I'm struggling to think of how he did as mayor.

    Terribly. All the good ideas weren't his.

    There's a reason Londoners completely saw through his Premiership from day one.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    edited April 13
    Eabhal said:

    Australia is excellent in every way except for their drug users, who are far more aggressive than ours. It's to do with the difficulty importing traditional drugs (a lesson there for the UK perhaps).

    I don't know what's happened in Sydney but do not rule out a drugs/mental health episode.

    Oz is a very lucky country but OMG it's so far from anywhere, and even when you are in Oz you are still, in general, very far away from anywhere else in Oz. It gets old quite quickly
  • Options
    Yokes said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Hello from Dublin. Just checked the GDP per head figures and according to the IMF Ireland is number 2 in the list, behind only Luxembourg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#Table

    The Irish governments own statistics office will tell you that the headline figure, whilst calculated according to the way these things are done also doesnt anywhere near reflect the actual wealth of the country due to the skew of multinationals passing income through their Irish subsidiaries.... a small cohort of your big global names contributing to GDP without any prortionate local economic activity. The money then exits the country.
    The joys of averages.

    The mean salary in Ireland is €3,220 per month.
    The mean salary in the UK is £35,404 per annum which equates to €3,440 per month.

    The median salary in Ireland is €2,461 per month.
    The median salary in the UK is £29,669 which equates to €2,880 per month.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    kjh said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Why people like Rayner is beyond me.

    Middle class people and centrist dad podcasts like her as a working class gal made good. It’s the same as having a black friend. I cannot be prejudiced because…..

    Rayner has questions to answer, has been shifty and evasive in her response, and was very quick to demand Tories stand down when under investigation. I think, at worst, if there is an issue with the tax she didn’t pay it is inadvertent and down to the complexities of the system.

    However her side happily make hay with such nonsense. Live by the sword die by the sword.
    I like Rayner because she has character, unlike 95% of politicians and people in leadership positions you meet in real life. None of that removes a requirement to be ethical. If you wish to assign my soft spot for Rayner to being the type of person who disguises their priors through having token black friends, please feel free.

    By the way if it really is your "at worst" Rayner doesn't in fact have a case to answer.
    I also like Mordaunt and Dorries for similar reasons. But - on topic - I have never liked Johnson. His "authenticity" is clearly fake. That people didn't see through him from day 1 has always irritated me slightly.



    I like Mourdant, but there doesn't seem to be any depth, although of the lot she is the one I am nearest to politically
    I like Rayner, but our politics are miles apart
    I think Dorries is an idiot
    I liked Johnson when he wasn't running anything as being fun, but clearly fake, and so was completely unsuited to be PM. I'm struggling to think of how he did as mayor.
    Agree about Mordaunt not having depth. It's a comment on state of the Conservative Party she is held out as the great white hope.

    Dorries is completely bonkers but in a genuine way I believe. I kind of admire her huge loyalty to Boris Johnson.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,658
    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    It's really not. I've travelled widely in Israel and this exceptionally racist rhetoric, from Israelis, is real and growing. And for the purposes of clarity I think Israel was completely entitled to hit back hard after October 7: Israel had no choice
    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.
  • Options
    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    It's really not. I've travelled widely in Israel and this exceptionally racist rhetoric, from Israelis, is real and growing. And for the purposes of clarity I think Israel was completely entitled to hit back hard after October 7: Israel had no choice
    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.
    The Nazi Israelis thing is very real, a smallish but quickly growing number of Israelis do think this way. And it is unabashed, now, especially (AFAICT) since Oct 7
  • Options
    YokesYokes Posts: 1,202
    Stories are that the Iranians have seized a Portuguese flagged vessel, the ship is reportedly linked to an Israeli shipping magnate.

    Not sure this is quite the retaliation thats been talked about but it fits the pattern of Iranian actions in the past around the Straits of Hormuz.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
    I greatly dislike their leader but he's not a lunatic, there's no need to use such emotive language which demeans the point you're trying to make.

    And prosecuting the war is quite rightly a policy not supported by merely the leader, but who would be the leader of the opposition etc too. The current war cabinet is cross-party equivalent to Attlee being in the Cabinet during WWII.
  • Options
    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 906
    edited April 13

    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
    I greatly dislike their leader but he's not a lunatic, there's no need to use such emotive language which demeans the point you're trying to make.

    And prosecuting the war is quite rightly a policy not supported by merely the leader, but who would be the leader of the opposition etc too. The current war cabinet is cross-party equivalent to Attlee being in the Cabinet during WWII.
    He is absolutely a lunatic - I completely stand by that statement. Based on his own public statements. He had so much good will from everyone and has completely thrown it away with his idiotic attempts to level a city and force civilians to starve to death.

    I don't think you dislike him at all, you seem to be essentially repeating his propaganda at this point.
  • Options
    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 906
    edited April 13
    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue. Like many others, I was wrong to have said we should not have voted through May's deal which would have done the same - but missing that Johnson did get Brexit through which ended it.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Ironically of course, by ending Brexit he exposed himself and that precipitated his inevitable downfall. History will look back on him as a liar and a fantasist who was always going to fail and did fail.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981

    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Brexit no longer an issue? Do you come here often?
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    edited April 13
    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    kjh said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Why people like Rayner is beyond me.

    Middle class people and centrist dad podcasts like her as a working class gal made good. It’s the same as having a black friend. I cannot be prejudiced because…..

    Rayner has questions to answer, has been shifty and evasive in her response, and was very quick to demand Tories stand down when under investigation. I think, at worst, if there is an issue with the tax she didn’t pay it is inadvertent and down to the complexities of the system.

    However her side happily make hay with such nonsense. Live by the sword die by the sword.
    I like Rayner because she has character, unlike 95% of politicians and people in leadership positions you meet in real life. None of that removes a requirement to be ethical. If you wish to assign my soft spot for Rayner to being the type of person who disguises their priors through having token black friends, please feel free.

    By the way if it really is your "at worst" Rayner doesn't in fact have a case to answer.
    I also like Mordaunt and Dorries for similar reasons. But - on topic - I have never liked Johnson. His "authenticity" is clearly fake. That people didn't see through him from day 1 has always irritated me slightly.



    I like Mourdant, but there doesn't seem to be any depth, although of the lot she is the one I am nearest to politically
    I like Rayner, but our politics are miles apart
    I think Dorries is an idiot
    I liked Johnson when he wasn't running anything as being fun, but clearly fake, and so was completely unsuited to be PM. I'm struggling to think of how he did as mayor.
    Johnson was lucky as Mayor, partly because he had Livingstone’s legacy of the bikes, and partly because he had the Olympics (also significantly down to Livingstone).
    By the end he was either corrupt or foolish or both…. Arcuri and Garden Bridge come to mind.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    About to go do some work so I can afford an Ibizan duplex

    I saw an interview with Netanyahu the other day. My god he has aged 15 years in six months. He looked TERRIBLE. About 88 years old. is this a geopolitical anti-Dorian Gray thing? Or just the hideous pressures of the job?

    It was quite a mind-slap

    And now: to work
  • Options
    I would honestly like for anyone that thinks Johnson was a good Mayor, to list any of his achievements that weren’t stolen from somebody else.

    I can only recall him creating a lot more strikes than Khan ever did.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    It’s one of those issues that is great for political point-scoring but not for actually raising revenue. It’s the worst politics of envy, and it comes across very badly to those whom it affects, generally people of significant means who can easily choose to base themselves elsewhere.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,703

    Donkeys said:

    TOPPING said:


    Why on earth would someone stab a 9 month old baby ?

    Another morning another day of horror unfolds

    Terror, Big G, terror.
    Among some Israelis there is the idea that a Palestinian baby is a future enemy ("terrorist") and that therefore maternity wards should be ethnically segregated.

    This is because, in the words of finance and defence minister Bezalel Smotrich (he's the one who said all Palestinians should be subjugated, deported, or killed) he wouldn't want his wife lying down in the next bed to an Arab woman whose baby will try to murder their baby in 20 years' time:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=smotrich+babies+maternity

    That's how those whose minds are possessed by an ultra-extreme ethnic-supremacist hatred "think".

    And it gets worse than that.

    Chabad rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh - an influential figure and inspirer of much of the "price-tag" fascist violence on the West Bank - has written "There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us":

    https://www.google.com/search?q=rabbi+ginsburgh+babies

    Without a religious reference there were the "1 shot 2 kills" t-shirts. A person has to be insane in about the most inhuman way possible to think this kind of thing is amusing:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=1+shot+2+kills

    On the same theme during the ongoing war:

    https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-rabbi-says-gaza-women-children-should-all-be-killed

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1766413166693454212

    Note that it is not just babies that are talked about in this way, and not just pregnant women or mothers of young babies, but women in general, viewed as "those who produce the future generation".

    It's interesting that among the very few countries that are saying NO to the genocide are South Africa and Ireland.
    Call me a cynic but I think Spanish and Norwegian statements about possibly "recognising Palestine" are insincere.
    Those quotes brought to my mind this photo:



    It’s precisely the rhetoric the Nazis used.

    What a depressing mess it is.
    It's antisemitic nonsense.
    Why? Are they false quotes?

    I’m not seeking to take sides here, it’s a clusterfuck of epic proportions that has deep historical roots. Extremists on both sides are equally complicit.

    I just find it remarkable, if the quotes are true, how eerily extremist Israeli rhetoric echoes that of the Nazis.
    Yes its false antisemitic lies.

    Tragically sad blood libel down the years. About as honest as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion etc
    Here’s the Smotrich story covered by the Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/lawmaker-backs-segregated-jewish-arab-maternity-wards/

    And Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2016-04-05/ty-article/.premium/israeli-lawmaker-my-wife-wouldnt-want-to-give-birth-next-to-an-arab-woman/0000017f-f782-d47e-a37f-ffbe2cc90000

    Here is the Ginsburgh story in the Times of Israel: https://www.timesofisrael.com/ministers-to-honor-rabbi-who-praised-hebron-massacre-perpetrator/

    Here’s CBS on the 1 shot 2 kills T-shirt: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israeli-t-shirts-joke-about-killing-arabs/

    I don’t think the Times of Israel and Haaretz would be making up antisemitic lies.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Brexit no longer an issue? Do you come here often?
    The way things are are going, by the time we get to the 2029/30 election a major party will have, at the very least, close co-operation with the EU as part of their policy.
    And it will be popular!
    I only hope that, at 90+ by then, I’ll be around to see it.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,323
    edited April 13

    kjh said:

    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Why people like Rayner is beyond me.

    Middle class people and centrist dad podcasts like her as a working class gal made good. It’s the same as having a black friend. I cannot be prejudiced because…..

    Rayner has questions to answer, has been shifty and evasive in her response, and was very quick to demand Tories stand down when under investigation. I think, at worst, if there is an issue with the tax she didn’t pay it is inadvertent and down to the complexities of the system.

    However her side happily make hay with such nonsense. Live by the sword die by the sword.
    I like Rayner because she has character, unlike 95% of politicians and people in leadership positions you meet in real life. None of that removes a requirement to be ethical. If you wish to assign my soft spot for Rayner to being the type of person who disguises their priors through having token black friends, please feel free.

    By the way if it really is your "at worst" Rayner doesn't in fact have a case to answer.
    I also like Mordaunt and Dorries for similar reasons. But - on topic - I have never liked Johnson. His "authenticity" is clearly fake. That people didn't see through him from day 1 has always irritated me slightly.



    I like Mourdant, but there doesn't seem to be any depth, although of the lot she is the one I am nearest to politically
    I like Rayner, but our politics are miles apart
    I think Dorries is an idiot
    I liked Johnson when he wasn't running anything as being fun, but clearly fake, and so was completely unsuited to be PM. I'm struggling to think of how he did as mayor.
    Johnson was lucky as Mayor, partly because he had Livingstone’s legacy of the bikes, and partly because he had the Olympics (also significantly down to Livingstone).
    By the end he was either corrupt or foolish or both…. Arcuri and Garden Bridge come to mind.
    He was good at the ceremonials and pleasantly anti-woke. (Apparently he went apeshit when he saw the proposed Winterval card which some jerk thought more appropriate than the customary Christmas one.) Since there isn't too much more to being Mayor I guess he wasn't so bad, but the two examples you quote illustrate why the Mayoralty should have been the pinnacle of his political career.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758

    Yokes said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Hello from Dublin. Just checked the GDP per head figures and according to the IMF Ireland is number 2 in the list, behind only Luxembourg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita#Table

    The Irish governments own statistics office will tell you that the headline figure, whilst calculated according to the way these things are done also doesnt anywhere near reflect the actual wealth of the country due to the skew of multinationals passing income through their Irish subsidiaries.... a small cohort of your big global names contributing to GDP without any prortionate local economic activity. The money then exits the country.
    The joys of averages.

    The mean salary in Ireland is €3,220 per month.
    The mean salary in the UK is £35,404 per annum which equates to €3,440 per month.

    The median salary in Ireland is €2,461 per month.
    The median salary in the UK is £29,669 which equates to €2,880 per month.
    In Ireland the median disposable household income is €53 000 per year. The equivalent in the UK is £32 000.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    edited April 13
    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027
    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Are you having a bad day? Do you have a hangover?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    Yokes said:

    Stories are that the Iranians have seized a Portuguese flagged vessel, the ship is reportedly linked to an Israeli shipping magnate.

    Not sure this is quite the retaliation thats been talked about but it fits the pattern of Iranian actions in the past around the Straits of Hormuz.

    If I were the Iranian leadership cooking up a retaliation (for clarity, I’m not, just in case you were wondering) I’d probably go the seize a vessel / kidnapping route too. It creates a need for negotiation and is less likely to bring on further military strikes than lobbing a missile at Israel.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377

    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Are you having a bad day? Do you have a hangover?
    No, why? I'm in a jolly good mood. It's a beautiful spring day, I have some enjoyable work to do. I'm just being honest about the State of the Nation, and the increasing appeal of foreign parts to more mobile Brits (and non doms). Britain is becoming quite dystopian (the weather doesn't help). People will not pay high taxes to live in dystopia

    Nor is this a partisan thing. Much of the blame for this lies with the Tories, they have been economically inept, and pathetically leftwing - while saying naff rightwing things, and it was them that turned on the migration taps to an insane 1.4 MILLION in two years. I despise them for it and I hope they are destroyed in the election. Fuck em
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    And wait a few decades and you’ll have a nice warm climate too, while the rest of us burn. Still wet though.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
    I greatly dislike their leader but he's not a lunatic, there's no need to use such emotive language which demeans the point you're trying to make.

    And prosecuting the war is quite rightly a policy not supported by merely the leader, but who would be the leader of the opposition etc too. The current war cabinet is cross-party equivalent to Attlee being in the Cabinet during WWII.
    He is absolutely a lunatic - I completely stand by that statement. Based on his own public statements. He had so much good will from everyone and has completely thrown it away with his idiotic attempts to level a city and force civilians to starve to death.

    I don't think you dislike him at all, you seem to be essentially repeating his propaganda at this point.
    You're conflating two totally different things.

    I would far rather the National Unity party's Gantz who was in the opposition benches prior to Hamas's attack was the Prime Minister of Israel than Netanyahu.

    Your calling Netanyahu a lunatic hasn't said anything about Netanyahu himself and is entirely about how the war is being prosecuted.

    However Gantz etc is part of the war cabinet, just as Attlee was in WWII.

    Labour and the Conservatives were not the same, even in WWII. Ditto Likud and National Unity are not the same, Netanyahu and Gantz were not the same. However it was entirely appropriate for Attlee and the UK to fight WWII until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally, ditto its entirely appropriate for Israel and Gantz to prosecute this existential war until Hamas surrender unconditionally.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,758
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
    Of course they have those good things and if I was there already I'm sure I would want to stay.

    Scotland doesn't remotely have the worst climate in the world. It's actually quite favourable as long as the North Atlantic Drift holds out. Not having to dodge between air conditioned buildings and vehicles is a plus in my book
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
    Of course they have those good things and if I was there already I'm sure I would want to stay.

    Scotland doesn't remotely have the worst climate in the world. It's actually quite favourable as long as the North Atlantic Drift holds out. Not having to dodge between air conditioned buildings and vehicles is a plus in my book
    Chacun a son gout, of course. But it is a matter of fact that Scotland is one of the most sun-deprived areas on earth - comparable with the Aleutian islands and with less sun than Greenland, also it is cold and wet and never has a proper summer and it has tons of midges and it Satanically dark in the winter. Apart from that it is like California
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    I've lost friends to Portugal and Dubai in the last year. I could do Portgual, for much the same reasons you'd consider Spain. Dubai isn't my scene.

    I worry if I move to Thailand I'll end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel...
    Yeah I couldn't do Dubai, for the same

    As for the far east, don't we all end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel, anyway?

    Potugal I love but the food is so poor and repetitive, I DO like the people and the scenery. Ibiza has a remarkable buzz for somewhere so tiny. Yes there's the silly Brit clubbing rave scene but that's getting smaller and away from that it is very arty and cultured, lots of clever expats from all over the world, who all speak English first, which is good, and as it is so compact you can meet them all easily

    My main demand is a climate where I can sit outside on a balcony most mornings of the year, sipping coffee. A handful of interesting people to see in nice envrionments. Minimal crime and grot. A sunlit square for wine. And somewhere nice to hike and - even better - swim. Ibiza does all that and it has a good airport with excellent links to London, Madrid, Barcelona as hubs

    I could rent out my London flat and get somewhere considerably bigger in Ibiza, with cash left over. And I would still do the Far East in the winter months


    I love Ibiza, particularly Ibiza town, but its downside is a lack of size and varied landscape. It’s all the same: maritime pines, craggy limestone, small drystoned fields, and you can drive around it in a couple of hours. If I were moving long term to an island it would need a few mountains, perhaps some different microclimates. Majorca gets closer as do Crete and Corsica (but Corsica’s a bit too pricy).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,856
    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
    Of course they have those good things and if I was there already I'm sure I would want to stay.

    Scotland doesn't remotely have the worst climate in the world. It's actually quite favourable as long as the North Atlantic Drift holds out. Not having to dodge between air conditioned buildings and vehicles is a plus in my book
    Chacun a son gout, of course. But it is a matter of fact that Scotland is one of the most sun-deprived areas on earth - comparable with the Aleutian islands and with less sun than Greenland, also it is cold and wet and never has a proper summer and it has tons of midges and it Satanically dark in the winter. Apart from that it is like California
    Some of us *don't like the sun*. I hate the bloody thing.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    I've lost friends to Portugal and Dubai in the last year. I could do Portgual, for much the same reasons you'd consider Spain. Dubai isn't my scene.

    I worry if I move to Thailand I'll end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel...
    Yeah I couldn't do Dubai, for the same

    As for the far east, don't we all end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel, anyway?

    Potugal I love but the food is so poor and repetitive, I DO like the people and the scenery. Ibiza has a remarkable buzz for somewhere so tiny. Yes there's the silly Brit clubbing rave scene but that's getting smaller and away from that it is very arty and cultured, lots of clever expats from all over the world, who all speak English first, which is good, and as it is so compact you can meet them all easily

    My main demand is a climate where I can sit outside on a balcony most mornings of the year, sipping coffee. A handful of interesting people to see in nice envrionments. Minimal crime and grot. A sunlit square for wine. And somewhere nice to hike and - even better - swim. Ibiza does all that and it has a good airport with excellent links to London, Madrid, Barcelona as hubs

    I could rent out my London flat and get somewhere considerably bigger in Ibiza, with cash left over. And I would still do the Far East in the winter months


    I love Ibiza, particularly Ibiza town, but its downside is a lack of size and varied landscape. It’s all the same: maritime pines, craggy limestone, small drystoned fields, and you can drive around it in a couple of hours. If I were moving long term to an island it would need a few mountains, perhaps some different microclimates. Majorca gets closer as do Crete and Corsica (but Corsica’s a bit too pricy).
    But I travel all the time so I get to see lots of variety anyway. I literally just need a small nice flat with a balcony and a vew, a good supermarket nearby, a warm sunny climate, decent wifi, some coast to swim, one or two pleasant hikes. And a smattering of interesting people (which I already know in Ibiza). And a pretty piazza

    My life IS variety, so all I need is the above
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    In todays express, Hunt seems to think that cutting taxes makes a huge difference to our business environment. The expresserati are lapping it up of course.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1887890/Jeremy-Hunt-Economy-GDP-inflation-interest-rates-Rishi-Sunak

    The only problem is that you could have corporate tax rates at 100% and it would make very little difference. Big corporations make it so they have nigh on no taxable profit in the UK. The tax on Microsoft, Apple, Starbucks, Macdonald is negligible... it is penny's. Corporation taxes make no difference to the business environment in the uk. Look it up. It is futile fighting about whether the corporate tax rate should be 20% or 80%. 80% of nothing is still nothing.

    The tories will go all in on this taxes issue, but in that domain, where the real productive capacity exists, taxes are an irrelevance.

    I am not even saying this out of a partisan sentiment... it is just as a baseline about reality from which to have a conversation about policies. I think the tories are revealing how out of ideas they actually are on the economy and business environment. Tax rates matter little to those who economy and invest in the country.

    "H&M accordingly has no trading activity that creates business income and is therefore not in a position to pay corporate income tax in the countries where the representative offices are located."

    https://hmgroup.com/about-us/corporate-governance/policies/#:~:text=H&M accordingly has no trading,the representative offices are located

    Focuing so univocally on taxes in the economy is just a distraction for the people who don't know better.

    The non dom stuff is interesting, with articles in the Guardian and FT over the last couple of days about rich people fleeing the country.

    https://www.ft.com/content/f551d2d6-8ac0-4f28-8ec4-a60ba38b33a1

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/13/uk-non-doms-uk-labour-tax-plans

    Both articles specifically mention Italy with a tax cap of €100k per year for 15 years as the preferred destination.

    Someone in the comments calculating it takes half of the non doms to leave before the policy becomes net negative in terms of tax take, and that's before you take into account anything they spend or invest by being in the UK. Dunno if it's right, but it sounds about right.

    I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like higher taxes... isn't.
    I'm now very seriously looking into the digital nomad visa in Spain. Ibiza to be precise. In the last few years I've made some good friends there. It is a really interesting bohodelic metrosexual scene. The Ayahuasca Peeps

    Much lower tax rates, and also - that weather. And no Fentanyl

    Given that I already spend more than half the year abroad, why on earth not

    Either there or BKK/Phnom Penh, I think. British taxes plus British weather plus British grot plus EVEN MORE TAXES are really not a winning combo. HMG really really needs to tread carefully
    I've lost friends to Portugal and Dubai in the last year. I could do Portgual, for much the same reasons you'd consider Spain. Dubai isn't my scene.

    I worry if I move to Thailand I'll end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel...
    Yeah I couldn't do Dubai, for the same

    As for the far east, don't we all end up like some character in a Houellebecq novel, anyway?

    Potugal I love but the food is so poor and repetitive, I DO like the people and the scenery. Ibiza has a remarkable buzz for somewhere so tiny. Yes there's the silly Brit clubbing rave scene but that's getting smaller and away from that it is very arty and cultured, lots of clever expats from all over the world, who all speak English first, which is good, and as it is so compact you can meet them all easily

    My main demand is a climate where I can sit outside on a balcony most mornings of the year, sipping coffee. A handful of interesting people to see in nice envrionments. Minimal crime and grot. A sunlit square for wine. And somewhere nice to hike and - even better - swim. Ibiza does all that and it has a good airport with excellent links to London, Madrid, Barcelona as hubs

    I could rent out my London flat and get somewhere considerably bigger in Ibiza, with cash left over. And I would still do the Far East in the winter months


    I love Ibiza, particularly Ibiza town, but its downside is a lack of size and varied landscape. It’s all the same: maritime pines, craggy limestone, small drystoned fields, and you can drive around it in a couple of hours. If I were moving long term to an island it would need a few mountains, perhaps some different microclimates. Majorca gets closer as do Crete and Corsica (but Corsica’s a bit too pricy).
    But I travel all the time so I get to see lots of variety anyway. I literally just need a small nice flat with a balcony and a vew, a good supermarket nearby, a warm sunny climate, decent wifi, some coast to swim, one or two pleasant hikes. And a smattering of interesting people (which I already know in Ibiza). And a pretty piazza

    My life IS variety, so all I need is the above
    Yes, that’s a fair point. And you have the ferry to Formentera for an occasional change of scene.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,130
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
    Of course they have those good things and if I was there already I'm sure I would want to stay.

    Scotland doesn't remotely have the worst climate in the world. It's actually quite favourable as long as the North Atlantic Drift holds out. Not having to dodge between air conditioned buildings and vehicles is a plus in my book
    Chacun a son gout, of course. But it is a matter of fact that Scotland is one of the most sun-deprived areas on earth - comparable with the Aleutian islands and with less sun than Greenland, also it is cold and wet and never has a proper summer and it has tons of midges and it Satanically dark in the winter. Apart from that it is like California
    Some of us *don't like the sun*. I hate the bloody thing.
    Then you have no need to budge. Plus you have the benefit of being surrounded by a community of similarly miserable heliophobes.

    It's probably best if you all huddle together on a loch-side.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,130
    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Wait until Starmer gets into his stride.

    "Things Can Only Get Better" replaced by "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet..."
  • Options
    agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 86
    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    I feel the same about Hampshire, in which I am probably unique.
  • Options

    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
    I greatly dislike their leader but he's not a lunatic, there's no need to use such emotive language which demeans the point you're trying to make.

    And prosecuting the war is quite rightly a policy not supported by merely the leader, but who would be the leader of the opposition etc too. The current war cabinet is cross-party equivalent to Attlee being in the Cabinet during WWII.
    He is absolutely a lunatic - I completely stand by that statement. Based on his own public statements. He had so much good will from everyone and has completely thrown it away with his idiotic attempts to level a city and force civilians to starve to death.

    I don't think you dislike him at all, you seem to be essentially repeating his propaganda at this point.
    You're conflating two totally different things.

    I would far rather the National Unity party's Gantz who was in the opposition benches prior to Hamas's attack was the Prime Minister of Israel than Netanyahu.

    Your calling Netanyahu a lunatic hasn't said anything about Netanyahu himself and is entirely about how the war is being prosecuted.

    However Gantz etc is part of the war cabinet, just as Attlee was in WWII.

    Labour and the Conservatives were not the same, even in WWII. Ditto Likud and National Unity are not the same, Netanyahu and Gantz were not the same. However it was entirely appropriate for Attlee and the UK to fight WWII until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally, ditto its entirely appropriate for Israel and Gantz to prosecute this existential war until Hamas surrender unconditionally.
    No I am calling their leader a lunatic because of public statements he himself has made. He is is lunatic facist.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,027

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    Leon said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    Other countries have culture, countryside, coastal scenery, history, people and ideas

    They also don't have 45%-55% tax, tidal waves of immigration, rampant urban decay, intense uglification of towns, and, in Scotland's case, probably the worst climate in the world. Plus midges
    Of course they have those good things and if I was there already I'm sure I would want to stay.

    Scotland doesn't remotely have the worst climate in the world. It's actually quite favourable as long as the North Atlantic Drift holds out. Not having to dodge between air conditioned buildings and vehicles is a plus in my book
    Chacun a son gout, of course. But it is a matter of fact that Scotland is one of the most sun-deprived areas on earth - comparable with the Aleutian islands and with less sun than Greenland, also it is cold and wet and never has a proper summer and it has tons of midges and it Satanically dark in the winter. Apart from that it is like California
    Some of us *don't like the sun*. I hate the bloody thing.
    Then you have no need to budge. Plus you have the benefit of being surrounded by a community of similarly miserable heliophobes.

    It's probably best if you all huddle together on a loch-side.
    You need to top up with Vitamin D, though!
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    agingjb2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    I feel the same about Hampshire, in which I am probably unique.
    I left Hampshire some years ago. I like going back occasionally as a break but there is really very little to do for a younger person.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,521
    agingjb2 said:

    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    I feel the same about Hampshire, in which I am probably unique.
    Not at all. Life and career took me away, but I still slightly regret that.

    And sea which isn't capped in the distance by something like the Isle of Wight is fundamentally wrong.
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981
    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    Thanks. Looks like a very good tip. Not far from me either. I go to Borough Market regularly, but next time will give this one a visit instead.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    That sounds like a good excuse for an upmarket pub crawl, a relaxing afternoon taking in esoteric wines!
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    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,981

    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Wait until Starmer gets into his stride.

    "Things Can Only Get Better" replaced by "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet..."
    ‘Let’s rock!’
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    edited April 13
    Sandpit said:

    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    That sounds like a good excuse for an upmarket pub crawl, a relaxing afternoon taking in esoteric wines!
    Only downside being I drove here so it’s just the one. But you could spend a very relaxing and interesting hour or two just at Bon Vino Enoteca which is run by actual eccentric and properly Italian Italians. Having a Langhe Nebbiolo with the steak and chips I bought from a stall up the street.

    Suppose I should add the obligatory Leon-style shot
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,101
    edited April 13

    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Brexit no longer an issue? Do you come here often?
    The next election won’t be fought over Brexit and it’s highly unlikely that the one after that will either.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054

    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    Thanks. Looks like a very good tip. Not far from me either. I go to Borough Market regularly, but next time will give this one a visit instead.
    I lived in London or nearly five years as a student and immediately afterwards. In that time, i lived in northeast London, east London, the Old Kent Road, and near Chelsea.

    I'm not really one for regrets per se, but I didn't make the most out of my time in London; there was so much that I didn't see and do.
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    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Are you having a bad day? Do you have a hangover?
    No, why? I'm in a jolly good mood. It's a beautiful spring day, I have some enjoyable work to do. I'm just being honest about the State of the Nation, and the increasing appeal of foreign parts to more mobile Brits (and non doms). Britain is becoming quite dystopian (the weather doesn't help). People will not pay high taxes to live in dystopia

    Nor is this a partisan thing. Much of the blame for this lies with the Tories, they have been economically inept, and pathetically leftwing - while saying naff rightwing things, and it was them that turned on the migration taps to an insane 1.4 MILLION in two years. I despise them for it and I hope they are destroyed in the election. Fuck em
    Spain has had large-scale immigration...mostly white.

    Is it the fraudulent Nigerians and homicidal Bangladeshis you don't like or, when it comes down to it, the proles, horrible smelly proles of whatever colour? As a check, imagine being surrounded by born and bred lilywhite Londoners, with so much Thames blood flowing in their veins that they've rarely left their city of birth, all saying "Gorblimey mate" and how much they admire the Queen Mother and the Kray Twins. Less scary or about the same?
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,791

    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Brexit no longer an issue? Do you come here often?
    The next election won’t be fought over Brexit and it’s highly unlikely that the one after that will either.
    The next election is going to be fought? Looks more like a mix of kamikaze and surrender.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,264
    FF43 said:

    I have no intention of leaving Scotland. We have culture, we have great countryside and coastal scenery, we have history, people with interesting ideas.

    Parts don't work work as well they should but perhaps they can be fixed.

    I've only been here 3 years but I absolutely bloody adore living in Scotland.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Just put a couple of quid e/w on Foxy Jack's in the Grand National.

    It just had to be done.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    edited April 13

    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    Thanks. Looks like a very good tip. Not far from me either. I go to Borough Market regularly, but next time will give this one a visit instead.
    I lived in London or nearly five years as a student and immediately afterwards. In that time, i lived in northeast London, east London, the Old Kent Road, and near Chelsea.

    I'm not really one for regrets per se, but I didn't make the most out of my time in London; there was so much that I didn't see and do.
    When visitors come to London for a couple of days and ask for tips beyond the usual grand sights I usually recommend a tour of markets. They take you to different corners of the city and show different sides of London and Britain: Portobello road, Camden, Columbia Road, Borough, Brixton, Brick Lane, Greenwich. You get a festive feeling at all of these which is London at its best.

    One thing we’re really badly missing is a Tokyo-style fish market open to the public. If Billingsgate could construct an annex - easy enough, it’s in the middle of a load of Canary Wharf development - where normal punters could buy fresh sushi and sashimi, fish and chips, mackerel rolls, oysters etc it would be an instant tourist hit.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,919
    Ah, so the German conference was shut down after Salman Abu Sitta, an activist who wrote an essay that ‘expressed understanding” for the October 7th attack on Israel, appeared via video link having been banned from entering Germany. He is the uncle of the Dr. Sitta who was also arrested.

    Hamas, in Germany as in the UK, is a proscribed terrorist organisation, and Salman Abu Sitta has a history of supporting Hamas and “making anti-Semitic and violence-glorifying remarks”. He is banned from “political activity” in Germany.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/police-shut-down-pro-palestinian-gathering-germany-over-hate-speech-fears-2024-04-12/

    https://apnews.com/article/germany-gaza-doctor-conference-entry-refused-e82252cb9bc5e010e8bfd0689f816e53
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,270
    ...

    Mr. Pete, calling political opponents scum then refusing to apologise justifies an outraged response.

    An apology had to be dragged out (not sure but I think it was after a Conservative MP was stabbed to death). Dehumanising opponents and condemning people for having a different party in a democracy is wretched and worthy of harsh criticism.

    The flashing nonsense was repugnant and condemned at the time. Nobody, as far as I know, defends that stupid claim. Some people, however, such as yourself are seeking to diminish the validity of criticising Rayner for her 'Tory scum' insults. Someone who might be Deputy Prime Minister before too long describing other politicians or supporters of another party as scum is vile.

    Your post is full of inconsistencies Morris. You are dismissing the slur on Rayner as inconsequential. You are also making the leap that her "scum" comment was incitement for an Islamic extremist to assassinate David Amess.

    Dehumanising you say? The hilarious Basic Instinct stuff we can dismiss then.

    How woke are the current iteration of the Conservative Party that they break down and cry when some council house peasant calls them "scum"? Not a term I would use, but I've been called worse.

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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,877
    Afternoon all :)

    The two I've backed (so probably best to avoid like a Conservative Party canvasser) for the National are:

    VANILLIER
    ADAMANTLY CHOSEN

    If either wins, it's steak and champagne for Mrs Stodge this evening - if either or both get placed, it's fish and chips piad for out of the winnings and if neither place it's dog food (which, as we don't have a dog, is going to be an issue).
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    One more point - on the emigration of affluent Brits - in the last year two of my friends have confirmed their departure: one to Provence, the other to Thailand. It really is happening. People are fucking off, and these are all prosperous net tax positive people for the UK, one in his 40s with decades of good earning ahead

    Britain is driving away the affluent Brits (let alone the non doms) and replacing them with Nigerian nurses with fake qualifications and Bangladeshi students that murder their dependant wives

    Are you having a bad day? Do you have a hangover?
    No, why? I'm in a jolly good mood. It's a beautiful spring day, I have some enjoyable work to do. I'm just being honest about the State of the Nation, and the increasing appeal of foreign parts to more mobile Brits (and non doms). Britain is becoming quite dystopian (the weather doesn't help). People will not pay high taxes to live in dystopia

    Nor is this a partisan thing. Much of the blame for this lies with the Tories, they have been economically inept, and pathetically leftwing - while saying naff rightwing things, and it was them that turned on the migration taps to an insane 1.4 MILLION in two years. I despise them for it and I hope they are destroyed in the election. Fuck em
    Spain has had large-scale immigration...mostly white.

    Is it the fraudulent Nigerians and homicidal Bangladeshis you don't like or, when it comes down to it, the proles, horrible smelly proles of whatever colour? As a check, imagine being surrounded by born and bred lilywhite Londoners, with so much Thames blood flowing in their veins that they've rarely left their city of birth, all saying "Gorblimey mate" and how much they admire the Queen Mother and the Kray Twins. Less scary or about the same?
    Much less scary, or, rather, much less "alien". I miss the old white cockney London. It was still very noticeable when I was first here, indeed it prevailed until the late 1990s. The demographic stats show this

    There is a tipping point, to my mind, where a great city goes from being fascinatingly diverse and vibrant, with lots of different communities but still one big welcoming host community - in London's case, white Brits (and I liked that vibrant, diverse London) - and then you cross a line where the host community is no longer the majority and something profound changes. Whte Brits are in a minority in London now. I find this regrettable, I am sure the French might feel the same about Paris or the Nigerians about Lagos or the Japanese about Tokyo or the Papua New Guineans about Port Moresby, so it's not reacism, it is preferring your own people in your own city, which is entirely human, like preferring your own family in your own home

    And yes, maybe I am just a grumpy old man, or maybe I just like sun too much. But I do think I'm off, I've kinda already left, spending more than half the year abroad as it is, so it won't be a dramatic wrench, I've basically already done it
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    edited April 13
    In a development likely to infuriate some, we appear currently to be hitting the lowest ever amount of fossil fuel power generation. 1.1gw from gas, zero from coal and oil, out of 32gw total generation. It’s coming from wind (14.6), solar (6.4), nuclear (5.4) and assorted others like biomass, hydro and imports (which are from France, so nuclear).

    https://grid.energynumbers.info/
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    TresTres Posts: 2,234
    edited April 13
    I've been out canvassing this lovely april morning in outer London. No-one gives a fuck about Rayner but everyone over 60 is terrified of Sadiq Khan, although a sizeable minority won't vote for tories either under Sunak.

    The overall winner is the 'got something more interesting to do than talk politics on a saturday morning' party
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,690
    Tres said:

    I've been out canvassing this lovely april morning in outer London. No-one gives fuck about Rayner but everyone over 60 is terrified of Sadiq Khan, although a sizeable minority won't vote for tories either under Sunak.

    The overall winner is the 'got something more interesting to do than talk politics on a saturday morning' party

    I could imagine people thinking all sorts of things about Sadiq, but terrifying isn’t one of them.

    What are they terrified of? Presumably more heavy handed impositions on the harassed and put-upon motorist?
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,377
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    In one of those strange anomalies of life, after 26 years living in South East London I’ve gone to Maltby Street market for the first time. It’s only 20 minutes away and there all the time. We’d been to just about every other notable market in London but not this one on our doorstep.

    Very pleasant. Remarkable number of esoteric wine bars hidden among the food outlets.

    Thanks. Looks like a very good tip. Not far from me either. I go to Borough Market regularly, but next time will give this one a visit instead.
    I lived in London or nearly five years as a student and immediately afterwards. In that time, i lived in northeast London, east London, the Old Kent Road, and near Chelsea.

    I'm not really one for regrets per se, but I didn't make the most out of my time in London; there was so much that I didn't see and do.
    When visitors come to London for a couple of days and ask for tips beyond the usual grand sights I usually recommend a tour of markets. They take you to different corners of the city and show different sides of London and Britain: Portobello road, Camden, Columbia Road, Borough, Brixton, Brick Lane, Greenwich. You get a festive feeling at all of these which is London at its best.

    One thing we’re really badly missing is a Tokyo-style fish market open to the public. If Billingsgate could construct an annex - easy enough, it’s in the middle of a load of Canary Wharf development - where normal punters could buy fresh sushi and sashimi, fish and chips, mackerel rolls, oysters etc it would be an instant tourist hit.
    That would be a good tour of London, and that fish market idea is brilliant

    I'd add Berwick St Market in Soho for something chi-chi, foodie and different again
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,703

    WRT to Johnson, I will give him credit for ending Brexit as an issue.

    That is his one and only achievement.

    Brexit no longer an issue? Do you come here often?
    The next election won’t be fought over Brexit and it’s highly unlikely that the one after that will either.
    It’s not always said out loud, but the next election is being fought over the Tories’ record, of which Brexit is the major plank.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,234
    TimS said:

    Tres said:

    I've been out canvassing this lovely april morning in outer London. No-one gives fuck about Rayner but everyone over 60 is terrified of Sadiq Khan, although a sizeable minority won't vote for tories either under Sunak.

    The overall winner is the 'got something more interesting to do than talk politics on a saturday morning' party

    I could imagine people thinking all sorts of things about Sadiq, but terrifying isn’t one of them.

    What are they terrified of? Presumably more heavy handed impositions on the harassed and put-upon motorist?
    either that or living under sharia law, who knows *shrug emoji*
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    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578
    edited April 13

    kjh said:

    Agree. They were. Sadly they have lost most of the sympathy they were entitled to now because of the way they acted, which is a shame. I have no expertise here but some of the settlement stuff is difficult to comprehend and the right and religious parties in Israel are doing a lot of harm in terms of keeping the support of the West.

    They voted their lunatic leader in.
    I greatly dislike their leader but he's not a lunatic, there's no need to use such emotive language which demeans the point you're trying to make.

    And prosecuting the war is quite rightly a policy not supported by merely the leader, but who would be the leader of the opposition etc too. The current war cabinet is cross-party equivalent to Attlee being in the Cabinet during WWII.
    He is absolutely a lunatic - I completely stand by that statement. Based on his own public statements. He had so much good will from everyone and has completely thrown it away with his idiotic attempts to level a city and force civilians to starve to death.

    I don't think you dislike him at all, you seem to be essentially repeating his propaganda at this point.
    You're conflating two totally different things.

    I would far rather the National Unity party's Gantz who was in the opposition benches prior to Hamas's attack was the Prime Minister of Israel than Netanyahu.

    Your calling Netanyahu a lunatic hasn't said anything about Netanyahu himself and is entirely about how the war is being prosecuted.

    However Gantz etc is part of the war cabinet, just as Attlee was in WWII.

    Labour and the Conservatives were not the same, even in WWII. Ditto Likud and National Unity are not the same, Netanyahu and Gantz were not the same. However it was entirely appropriate for Attlee and the UK to fight WWII until the Nazis surrendered unconditionally, ditto its entirely appropriate for Israel and Gantz to prosecute this existential war until Hamas surrender unconditionally.
    Your analogy has its second part upside-down.

    Which human beings does Palestinian non-surrender to the jackboots of an ethnic-supremacist fascist regime jeopardise the existence of? For reference, I mean the regime that has bombed hospitals, caused starvation, and concentrated 1.4 million Palestinians in a tiny area that it promises to attack and capture using its military.

    Armed resistance to occupation isn't against international law. That's true even when the occupiers aren't criminals against humanity as they are in this case.

    One day, and that day may be soon, those who support the existence of the said regime will find that three of their favourite propaganda tactics may not be so useful to them:

    1. the "Godwin" manoeuvre of making a reference to one of the regime's predecessors;

    2. the obsessive, boring, and misdirectional use of an Arabic-language acronym to refer to the entire Palestinian resistance;

    3. the fuckwitted use of the word "terrorist". There really are some people who are terrorists - Daesh for example. They have no role in Gaza. The only terror in Gaza is being inflicted by the Israelis. Their soldiers have literally stormed hospitals and shot patients in the head.
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    Tres said:

    I've been out canvassing this lovely april morning in outer London. No-one gives a fuck about Rayner but everyone over 60 is terrified of Sadiq Khan, although a sizeable minority won't vote for tories either under Sunak.

    The overall winner is the 'got something more interesting to do than talk politics on a saturday morning' party

    Thanks Tres.

    I think polling pretty much backs this up, inner London is a lot more pro Khan (doesn't hate him) vs outer London which is more "meh" or "he's a bellend".

    Did you ask them about Rayner?
This discussion has been closed.