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Voter suppression could work for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,693
edited April 28 in General
Voter suppression could work for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

Almost two million of those unaware of the new requirements for photo ID at elections are in marginal and ultra-marginal constituencies.This could be decisive for top Tories like Hunt, Gove and even the Prime Minister, who are within 5% of losing their seat. 2/ pic.twitter.com/mVQgOYhbLD

Read the full story here

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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    The Electoral Commission is advertising the need for voter id but not perhaps, given the poll findings, in the right places. It might also give a misleading impression of what documents will be accepted.
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    Isn’t it going to be on every election leaflet?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462

    Isn’t it going to be on every election leaflet?

    Is it? Do they read election leaflets down at the recycling centre?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,899
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    My poll card for the locals, which is now an A4 sheet of paper rather than an actual card, says at the top that "you must bring photographic identification to vote" and on the back (once the "card" is unfolded) is a list of "accepted forms of photographic identification".
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    Millions of missing voters urged to register before deadline
    ...
    Around 44 million people are estimated to be eligible to vote at this year’s May elections in England and Wales. Yet as many as seven million people are either incorrectly registered or missing from the register entirely.

    This is more than the combined adult population of Scotland and Wales, and would be equivalent in number to more than 100 UK Parliament constituencies.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/millions-missing-voters-urged-register-deadline
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,294
    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,294
    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,642
    Interesting snippet of analysis from the Daily Telegraph Ukraine podcast wrt Lord Cameron's trip to the USA to visit Trump etc. They think he was the wrong man to send - too polished and like a Lord Snooty.

    https://youtu.be/_r1VJg8tMWo?t=585

    IMO the Telegraph are still being overpolite wrt Trump; they are not yet framing him as a Mugabe or Noriega type bullshitting criminal, which is what he is, and what we will have to deal with should he become President.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320
    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    Surely the whole ‘deterrent’ thing is based on it being rather dangerous?
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,389
    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    When the wind blows..
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    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,294
    edited April 12

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,320
    Completely off topic, but for those cricket fanatics out there, this is a very interesting analysis of the Hundred so far:

    https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2024/02/20/is-the-hundred-a-success/
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Millions of missing voters urged to register before deadline
    ...
    Around 44 million people are estimated to be eligible to vote at this year’s May elections in England and Wales. Yet as many as seven million people are either incorrectly registered or missing from the register entirely.

    This is more than the combined adult population of Scotland and Wales, and would be equivalent in number to more than 100 UK Parliament constituencies.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/millions-missing-voters-urged-register-deadline

    I suppose one advantage of a voter being turned away at the local elections, due to not being registered to vote, will be that they ensure that they are registered for the general election!

    And good morning one and all; cloudy but it looks quite promising here this morning.
    Not only prepared after having their right to vote removed, but prepared and annoyed at the Tories...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,994
    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462

    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?

    Yes but as I've said before, BBC News overnight and at weekends seems to be run by newbies and interns who slavishly copy the American domestic news channels. That said, OJ was big news at the time because in the early days of satellite television, many in the media (again) watched the American news channels.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    A better article (IMO):
    https://cleantechnica.com/2024/04/11/a-new-dawn-for-solar-cells-190-quantum-efficiency-is-possible/

    It's like the AMAZING NEW BATTERY TECH!!!!!! stories we see every so often. There's a world away from a theoretical material to a lab-made material to a product to a productionised product.

    But yes, potentially interesting.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?

    Yes but as I've said before, BBC News overnight and at weekends seems to be run by newbies and interns who slavishly copy the American domestic news channels. That said, OJ was big news at the time because in the early days of satellite television, many in the media (again) watched the American news channels.
    Some stories are just interesting. It's not just America. Pistorius trial got a lot of attention here too, as did Lindy Chamberlain.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 907
    In 2004 the Labour Party wanted all postal votes for local elections:

    "In summary, the Labour Party and Labour Government's view is as per the ODPMs submission and the following:
    1. There should be a statutory presumption that all local elections be run as all-postal ballots unless there are compelling reasons why an all-postal ballot would be inappropriate or disadvantageous for a group or groups of electors. The final decision should rest with the Returning Officer following consultation with party group leaders and independent members represented on the Council. If polling stations are to be used, the Returning Officer should publish a statement of reasons for that decision at the time of notice of poll."

    What is their current policy on Postal votes?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,462
    Global taxi software vendor exposes details of nearly 300K across UK and Ireland
    High-profile individuals including MPs said to be caught up in leak

    https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/11/icabbi_database_exposure/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054
    Foxy said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?

    Yes but as I've said before, BBC News overnight and at weekends seems to be run by newbies and interns who slavishly copy the American domestic news channels. That said, OJ was big news at the time because in the early days of satellite television, many in the media (again) watched the American news channels.
    Some stories are just interesting. It's not just America. Pistorius trial got a lot of attention here too, as did Lindy Chamberlain.
    The OJ Simpson story is interesting because it covers so many societal issues: e.g. race, fame, power, policing, the court system, etc, etc. I think the same is true for the Pistorius trial.

    It's just a shame that the victims get forgotten in it all.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,261
    Foxy said:

    Millions of missing voters urged to register before deadline
    ...
    Around 44 million people are estimated to be eligible to vote at this year’s May elections in England and Wales. Yet as many as seven million people are either incorrectly registered or missing from the register entirely.

    This is more than the combined adult population of Scotland and Wales, and would be equivalent in number to more than 100 UK Parliament constituencies.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/millions-missing-voters-urged-register-deadline

    I suppose one advantage of a voter being turned away at the local elections, due to not being registered to vote, will be that they ensure that they are registered for the general election!

    And good morning one and all; cloudy but it looks quite promising here this morning.
    Not only prepared after having their right to vote removed, but prepared and annoyed at the Tories...
    Why would they be especially annoyed with the tories if they get turned away for not being registered?

    Also, as turnout in local elections is maybe half the turnout in general elections, there's probably a relatively small proportion of those who are unregistered who also bother to vote in local elections.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,723

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    Cold Fusion was never a breakthrough, but there's still hope for Nuclear Fusion.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
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    IcarusIcarus Posts: 907
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    Are Labour trying in your seat? In South Leicestershire Labour members are directed to Rugby or Leicester City to help. Liberal Democrats have the chance based on latest locals but possibly best chance of getting rid of Tory MP -Alberto Costa - is that he is on the list of 10 Conservative MPs that they want to deselect.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    Let’s hope the wind isn’t heavily irradiated.


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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Icarus said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    Are Labour trying in your seat? In South Leicestershire Labour members are directed to Rugby or Leicester City to help. Liberal Democrats have the chance based on latest locals but possibly best chance of getting rid of Tory MP -Alberto Costa - is that he is on the list of 10 Conservative MPs that they want to deselect.
    I don't think Labour are particularly trying, but on current polling pretty much every county seat in Leics is marginal.

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    Golly, Paxo is going late stage Tolstoy.


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    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I hope Conservative Central Office have the common decency to send you a thank you card.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,244

    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?

    Not just the BBC, but, yes, it does seem to be overdoing it.
    Icarus said:

    In 2004 the Labour Party wanted all postal votes for local elections:

    "In summary, the Labour Party and Labour Government's view is as per the ODPMs submission and the following:
    1. There should be a statutory presumption that all local elections be run as all-postal ballots unless there are compelling reasons why an all-postal ballot would be inappropriate or disadvantageous for a group or groups of electors. The final decision should rest with the Returning Officer following consultation with party group leaders and independent members represented on the Council. If polling stations are to be used, the Returning Officer should publish a statement of reasons for that decision at the time of notice of poll."

    What is their current policy on Postal votes?

    Presumably if it works in their favour, like votes for 16 and 17 year olds, fine, if it doesnt then it is a terrible thing.
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    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,079

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,365
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    It might be, but who can say for sure? If we already knew what would be possible in the future it would be because we knew it was possible now.

    And in any case, does it make a huge difference whether the solar panels powering a car are on the car itself or the roof back home? With a battery in the house it is pretty easy to see solar panels being used to charge a home battery that then charges a car battery - and you already have a solar-powered car. Today.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    MattW said:

    Interesting snippet of analysis from the Daily Telegraph Ukraine podcast wrt Lord Cameron's trip to the USA to visit Trump etc. They think he was the wrong man to send - too polished and like a Lord Snooty.

    https://youtu.be/_r1VJg8tMWo?t=585

    IMO the Telegraph are still being overpolite wrt Trump; they are not yet framing him as a Mugabe or Noriega type bullshitting criminal, which is what he is, and what we will have to deal with should he become President.

    The Telegraph long ago decided that fighting the culture wars takes precedence over everything else, including the UK's fundamental defence, security and economic interests. A number of leading Tories - Johnson, Truss, Frost, Rees Mogg etc - as well as Farage and the Reform party have made the same call.

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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.

    Most other countries have mandatory ID cards that everyone is required to hold.

    We all benefit from not restricting the franchise for reasons that have no basis in reality and that were concocted entirely for party political purposes.

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    eekeek Posts: 25,007

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    Bollocks.

    JRM admitted it was to bugger up Labour (see the link above) and if you were worried about election integrity you should focus on postal votes.
    There is nothing on the postal vote that would allow you to confirm it was me voting and not my wife / daughters because both can fake my signature...
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    It's not that huge.
    The key measure for solar panels is how cheap they are, and the company set up in Germany a couple of years back to produce the more efficient perovskite panels had pretty well been shut down by Chinese competition.
    That's unlikely to change.

    And '190%' doesn't mean you get more energy out than you put in - which is indeed impossible - so Heathener's prediction is rubbish.

    We do have solar powered cars already. There's an annual challenge to see who can build the one that performs best.
    But if 100% efficiency were possible, they're always going to be pretty useless.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 600

    Millions of missing voters urged to register before deadline
    ...
    Around 44 million people are estimated to be eligible to vote at this year’s May elections in England and Wales. Yet as many as seven million people are either incorrectly registered or missing from the register entirely.

    This is more than the combined adult population of Scotland and Wales, and would be equivalent in number to more than 100 UK Parliament constituencies.

    https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/media-centre/millions-missing-voters-urged-register-deadline

    I suppose one advantage of a voter being turned away at the local elections, due to not being registered to vote, will be that they ensure that they are registered for the general election!

    And good morning one and all; cloudy but it looks quite promising here this morning.
    But the average turnout at local elections is usually in the region of 30 per cent.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
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    On topic, Best for Britain massively overstate the likely impact of voted ID in terms of number of people.

    Firstly, the poll was conducted in March, before people got polling cards that prominently display the ID requirement, before people get campaign leaflets which will undoubtedly also feature it, and before the various news stories that will mention it closer to election day. Clearly, plenty of people don't pay attention to any of it but it will inevitably reduce numbers who aren't aware.

    Secondly, the poll seems to ignore the fact it's all pretty academic for postal voters. Quite a few of those who are unaware of the ID requirement don't need to be aware of it so the number of people potentially affected is lower than Best for Britain say.

    Thirdly, quite a lot of people have the necessary ID in their wallet/purse (driving licence, over 60s bus pass, or proof of age) so, even if they are surprised when they get to the polling station to be asked for ID, it isn't actually a problem. Others have it at home and, annoying as it will be, will in fact go and get it.

    Finally, the assumption that it will help the Tories to the extent some people are disenfranchised seems dubious. The Rees-Mogg quote indicates it's at least possible that it will hurt them. One aspect is that Tory voters are rather unenthusiastic this time, so those who are turned away at the polling station are probably more likely to go home and get ID if they are non-Tory, while Conservatives might well go home and close the door.

    None of this is to say voter ID is a good thing - it's unnecessary, was at least intended as a partisan measure (as Rees-Mogg admits), and some people will be disenfranchised unfairly. But, in terms of impact in betting terms, the likelihood is it will be immaterial.
  • Options
    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,764

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
  • Options

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    Someone tried to on here at one time. But the poor bloke was pretty boring and incoherent. It would be nice if someone with a talent for writing would do it.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,658
    edited April 12

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The point is it is practically impossible to abuse voting in polling stations without getting caught by more than the odd vote (if you want I can go through why, but I have done so before). I have only come across one example and it failed. The same person can't keep walking into a polling station over and over again, so you need a huge team and you only need one person to recognise you are not the person you claim to be (remember everyone is local at a polling station) or to find the genuine voter has already voted and you are stuffed.

    Postal voting however is regularly abused and in large numbers where fictitious voters are registered, or ballot papers are interfered with, or voters are intimidated. There have been umpteen cases.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I hope Conservative Central Office have the common decency to send you a thank you card.
    If they lose my seat the Conservatives will be below 100 seats and suspect they will have other things on what's left of their minds!

    Is there a real practical issue between a Lab majority of 200 and one of 250?
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,126

    On topic, Best for Britain massively overstate the likely impact of voted ID in terms of number of people.

    Firstly, the poll was conducted in March, before people got polling cards that prominently display the ID requirement, before people get campaign leaflets which will undoubtedly also feature it, and before the various news stories that will mention it closer to election day. Clearly, plenty of people don't pay attention to any of it but it will inevitably reduce numbers who aren't aware.

    Secondly, the poll seems to ignore the fact it's all pretty academic for postal voters. Quite a few of those who are unaware of the ID requirement don't need to be aware of it so the number of people potentially affected is lower than Best for Britain say.

    Thirdly, quite a lot of people have the necessary ID in their wallet/purse (driving licence, over 60s bus pass, or proof of age) so, even if they are surprised when they get to the polling station to be asked for ID, it isn't actually a problem. Others have it at home and, annoying as it will be, will in fact go and get it.

    Finally, the assumption that it will help the Tories to the extent some people are disenfranchised seems dubious. The Rees-Mogg quote indicates it's at least possible that it will hurt them. One aspect is that Tory voters are rather unenthusiastic this time, so those who are turned away at the polling station are probably more likely to go home and get ID if they are non-Tory, while Conservatives might well go home and close the door.

    None of this is to say voter ID is a good thing - it's unnecessary, was at least intended as a partisan measure (as Rees-Mogg admits), and some people will be disenfranchised unfairly. But, in terms of impact in betting terms, the likelihood is it will be immaterial.

    I doubt it will shift the result much although at the margins it will most likely help the Tories. The point is that the right to vote is a precious thing and voting shouldn't be made more difficult than it needs to be, especially given some people's participation is already pretty marginal and it is precisely these people who will find themselves disenfranchised. Anything that drives turnout down, as this measure surely will, is to be deplore.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I hope Conservative Central Office have the common decency to send you a thank you card.
    If they lose my seat the Conservatives will be below 100 seats and suspect they will have other things on what's left of their minds!

    Is there a real practical issue between a Lab majority of 200 and one of 250?
    In terms of ability to pass legislation in term of the coming Parliament, no. In terms of how long it will take the Conservatives to return to office (or whether they will return at all), yes.
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,015
    eek said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The countries that require identification to vote also have ID cards - name me one country that insists of ID for voting that doesn't have an ID card...
    The USA
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    As Carl Sagan supposedly once said "They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Einstein, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown".
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,480
    kjh said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The point is it is practically impossible to abuse voting in polling stations without getting caught by more than the odd vote (if you want I can go through why, but I have done so before). I have only come across one example and it failed. The same person can't keep walking into a polling station over and over again, so you need a huge team and you only need one person to recognise you are not the person you claim to be (remember everyone is local at a polling station) or to find the genuine voter has already voted and you are stuffed.

    Postal voting however is regularly abused and in large numbers where fictitious voters are registered, or ballot papers are interfered with, or voters are intimidated. There have been umpteen cases.
    I agree that postal voting is the bigger issue. I disagree that because we do not think personation a big issue we should not tackle it.
    If nothing else, addressing in-person fraud is rather easier to do.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    eek said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The countries that require identification to vote also have ID cards - name me one country that insists of ID for voting that doesn't have an ID card...
    The USA
    Famous for its electoral shenanigans, gerrymandering and voter suppression!

    Perhaps not the best example to choose. Have you thought of citing Zimbabwe or Russia?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,642
    Taz said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Is it just me, or is the BBC making OJ Simpson's death the top story overdoing it?

    Not just the BBC, but, yes, it does seem to be overdoing it.
    Icarus said:

    In 2004 the Labour Party wanted all postal votes for local elections:

    "In summary, the Labour Party and Labour Government's view is as per the ODPMs submission and the following:
    1. There should be a statutory presumption that all local elections be run as all-postal ballots unless there are compelling reasons why an all-postal ballot would be inappropriate or disadvantageous for a group or groups of electors. The final decision should rest with the Returning Officer following consultation with party group leaders and independent members represented on the Council. If polling stations are to be used, the Returning Officer should publish a statement of reasons for that decision at the time of notice of poll."

    What is their current policy on Postal votes?

    Presumably if it works in their favour, like votes for 16 and 17 year olds, fine, if it doesnt then it is a terrible thing.
    At the time I think they thought it *would* work in their favour.

    Was this not period Mandelbrot?
  • Options

    eek said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The countries that require identification to vote also have ID cards - name me one country that insists of ID for voting that doesn't have an ID card...
    The USA
    The USA isn't technically a country that insists on ID for voting. The federal law only requires a first time voter to show ID, and then only if they didn't do so on registration. Some individual states have stricter rules - but then some individual states have a pretty diabolical record on voter suppression.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,261
    eek said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The countries that require identification to vote also have ID cards - name me one country that insists of ID for voting that doesn't have an ID card...
    It's true that in Germany everyone who is eligible to vote will already have an ID card (or EU passport).

    BUT in Germany I have never been asked for ID, nor seen anyone else asked for ID, when voting in person. You just bring the polling card that is posted to you, nobody bothers with ID.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,642
    Negotiations on the Gibraltar border.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68790429

    Would you trust the Foreign Office on this? (see Falklands 1978)
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244
    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    edited April 12

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I hope Conservative Central Office have the common decency to send you a thank you card.
    If they lose my seat the Conservatives will be below 100 seats and suspect they will have other things on what's left of their minds!

    Is there a real practical issue between a Lab majority of 200 and one of 250?
    In terms of ability to pass legislation in term of the coming Parliament, no. In terms of how long it will take the Conservatives to return to office (or whether they will return at all), yes.
    I will reconsider my choice if that circumstance arises.

    Generally 3rd terms are not a success, and further one's are worse. This government is on its 4th.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244
    Not quite down to the standards of the post office but this story beggars belief. A man was prosecuted by the DWP for overclaiming benefits. A total of £20,000 over many years. However the DWP now accept he made an innocent mistake.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731
    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
    With Machine 4, they should know if their plans are a fully practical possibility (or not) by the end if the decade.
    The first actual pilot plant would take rather more time, but they've already started engineering development. If they can demonstrate sufficient energy gain from their process (quite a big if), then an operational plant before the end of the 2030s is possible.

    But it's certainly worth the investment to find out: hundreds of millions, rather than billions.

    A lot more, of course, if they actually get to building power plants.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054
    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,575
    Question. Recent reporting - Guardian etc - is on how some urban Labour seats are at risk because Labour are losing the votes of the younger and the more progressive voter - this on account of their policy on the Middle East, nuclear deterrence and so on.

    Can this be true? Are there significant numbers of seats (eg more than 5) where another party (and if so which) can win instead?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
    Hang on, who doesn't slag off "Middle Class Lefties" ? ;)
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,731

    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
    Solar powered cars won’t happen because the amount of energy from the sun hitting the surface of the car is less than in needed to propel it. Even assuming 100% efficiency.

    You *can* build a weird kind of 4 wheel bicycle that can make slow progress in the Australian desert at noon.

    Improving the efficiency of solar cells is perfectly possible, but won’t be enough to make solar powered cars work.

    Cold fusion doesn’t work because the energy required to push atoms together is substantial.

    Regular fusion is progressing slowly, because of the difficulty of modelling ultra high intensity magnetic fields. And fusion reactions. Which means you have to build a succession of giant machines and feel your way to the result. That being said, it is fairly likely that ITER will get more energy out than goes in.

    First Light is one of dozens of attempts to do fusion differently. A number of them can neither be proved or disproved as to being viable, because of the modelling problem.
    Hence the FLF experimental machine.
    Even if their approach proves impractical, M4 will still be a world class high energy research facility.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
    I would say the opposite. The 2022-present war in Ukraine demonstrates that there is a need for flexible, well equipped conventional forces, not nuclear ones.

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, Russia probably has some that still work, but this has been an entirely conventional war.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,521
    Taz said:

    Not quite down to the standards of the post office but this story beggars belief. A man was prosecuted by the DWP for overclaiming benefits. A total of £20,000 over many years. However the DWP now accept he made an innocent mistake.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

    Down to the same dynamic though.

    Start with the assumption that benefit claimants, like subpostmasters, are out to deliberately defraud "us", and everything follows.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
    Hang on, who doesn't slag off "Middle Class Lefties" ? ;)
    Me!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352
    edited April 12
    Icarus said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    Are Labour trying in your seat? In South Leicestershire Labour members are directed to Rugby or Leicester City to help. Liberal Democrats have the chance based on latest locals but possibly best chance of getting rid of Tory MP -Alberto Costa - is that he is on the list of 10 Conservative MPs that they want to deselect.
    There's a little-understood discrepancy between the Labour national strategy and what local parties are doing. The national strategy is to relentlessly focus on getting a comfortable majority, so the central Labour websites always urge supporters to help in seats which Labour could win with, say, an 8% national lead. Local parties see an opportunity with the current 20% leads to reset the local position, giving them not only a possible MP but a much better starting point for local elections. So people active enough to be willing in principle to go and help somewhere else are generally active enough to be keen to change the weather in their local constituency, especially as the likelihood of Sunak actually winning nationally seems very small.

    If Labour's national lead collapsed to say 5%, that would change and nearly all the activists would rush off to the super-marginals. But at present it's not happening, and Labour is fighting hard in traditionally weak seats. A lot of those had artificially depressed Labour votes because activists went elsewhere and the LibDems mopped up the tactical vote. I'd therefore expect to see unexpected Labour gains in seats we've not won recently, and below-average swings in seats (e.g. in inner London) where we've got a traditional majority already.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,642
    edited April 12
    Brains Trust:

    Can anyone point me at an inflation indicator from July 2023 to now?

    The circs are that a new tenant and myself agreed a modestly below market rent which would then increase with CPI, and I need a part year CPI number to bring me back into line with my normal annual review date - although that would usually be April so I am a little late.

    One alternative method would be to take a proportion of the Govt's annual benefit review month, which was Sept 2023. That is my normal process, but that was peak inflation so may be a little higher than I am are comfortable to use with a T who did not get the corresponding smaller-than-inflation-increase benefit when inflation was going up; normally they balance out.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Taz said:

    Not quite down to the standards of the post office but this story beggars belief. A man was prosecuted by the DWP for overclaiming benefits. A total of £20,000 over many years. However the DWP now accept he made an innocent mistake.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

    Down to the same dynamic though.

    Start with the assumption that benefit claimants, like subpostmasters, are out to deliberately defraud "us", and everything follows.
    The paradox of cracking down on benefit fraud or tax dodging is that it is far easier for those doing it to meet their targets by going for these sort of people than the more egregious frauds done by organised gangs.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
    I would say the opposite. The 2022-present war in Ukraine demonstrates that there is a need for flexible, well equipped conventional forces, not nuclear ones.

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, Russia probably has some that still work, but this has been an entirely conventional war.
    Only because Russia doesnt want to nuke the lands it wants to integrate. No point fighting if all you get is a nuclear desert.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
    What did he say ? I have not seen any comment from him to that effect, not doubting your word though.

    The reality is it is either labour or a coalition. I suspect enough people will vote labour and the seats they seem to be falling back in are safe.

    I did say here, when the Gaza thing kicked off, the muslim vote could end up costing labour in some seats. This was, of course, derided by some here however Labour people are also now waking up to it.

    Difficult for labour. After purging the party of anti semitism what do they do. Take a fair stance on Gaza, calling out both Hamas for its evil crimes and Israel for its conduct of the war and its murder of civilians or do they adopt the Blair era policy of just giving Israel unwavering support.

    Especially important as public opinion keeps moving in response to what they see.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,856
    kjh said:

    Regardless of who benefits or loses electorally from these rules, they are a crime against democracy that risk creating a deep well of anger among disenfranchised voters, further poisoning our politics and suppressing participation in the democratic process. The Tories should rot in hell for it.

    Yes, and this is one of the reasons why I do not trust them to decide what my human rights should be. A party that deliberately seeks to restrict the right to vote is not one that should ever have control over something so fundamental.

    Most other countries require identification to vote. It is entirely reasonable.

    The anger is confected by the left because they believe that they benefit from the current set up.
    The point is it is practically impossible to abuse voting in polling stations without getting caught by more than the odd vote (if you want I can go through why, but I have done so before). I have only come across one example and it failed. The same person can't keep walking into a polling station over and over again, so you need a huge team and you only need one person to recognise you are not the person you claim to be (remember everyone is local at a polling station) or to find the genuine voter has already voted and you are stuffed.

    Postal voting however is regularly abused and in large numbers where fictitious voters are registered, or ballot papers are interfered with, or voters are intimidated. There have been umpteen cases.
    And add the new Tory proposals for emigrant votes - their staff will helpfully fill in the form within the UK that the supposed voter never even gets to see.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244
    We cancelled Netflix. Tempted to get it back now, This reeks of "contractual obligation"

    "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are to be the executive producers of two new nonfiction Netflix series focusing on lifestyle and polo.

    One show will explore “the joys of cooking, gardening, entertaining and friendship”, while the other will give “unprecedented access to the world of professional polo” and the US Open Polo Championship in Florida, Netflix said."

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/apr/11/harry-and-meghan-to-produce-two-netflix-series-about-lifestyle-and-polo

    "Archewell Productions, formed by the couple in 2020, is “dedicated to illuminating thought-provoking and diverse narratives that underscore our common humanity and celebrate community”, according to the company’s website."
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
    I would say the opposite. The 2022-present war in Ukraine demonstrates that there is a need for flexible, well equipped conventional forces, not nuclear ones.

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, Russia probably has some that still work, but this has been an entirely conventional war.
    Only because Russia doesnt want to nuke the lands it wants to integrate. No point fighting if all you get is a nuclear desert.
    Which proves my point!
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,575
    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    Interesting. IMHO this affects only a tiny number of seats, and if you do the maths, the more marginal the seat, the more Starmer needs the votes of those who usually vote Tory so I doubt if there is anything in this.

    BTW, on Gaza etc, Labour is going to stand more or less where the UK and the USA governments stand. There is no other place to go. It would be nice to be able to point to an alternative, morally sound policy with assured decent outcomes for good people on all sides but there isn't one to be had.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,521
    algarkirk said:

    Question. Recent reporting - Guardian etc - is on how some urban Labour seats are at risk because Labour are losing the votes of the younger and the more progressive voter - this on account of their policy on the Middle East, nuclear deterrence and so on.

    Can this be true? Are there significant numbers of seats (eg more than 5) where another party (and if so which) can win instead?

    The article mentions Bristol Central (vulnerable to Greens) and Sheffield Hallam (Lib Dems might win) and Brighton Pavillion. But I doubt there are many more than that. And as things stand, that's swamped by all the seats the Conservatives are on track to lose.
  • Options
    SteveSSteveS Posts: 50
    MattW said:

    Brains Trust:

    Can anyone point me at an inflation indicator from July 2023 to now?

    The circs are that a new tenant and myself agreed a modestly below market rent which would then increase with CPI, and I need a part year CPI number to bring me back into line with my normal annual review date - although that would usually be April so I am a little late.

    One alternative method would be to take a proportion of the Govt's annual benefit review month, which was Sept 2023. That is my normal process, but that was peak inflation so may be a little higher than I am are comfortable to use with a T who did not get the corresponding smaller-than-inflation-increase benefit when inflation was going up; normally they balance out.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/l55o/mm23

    Download the excel.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
    I would say the opposite. The 2022-present war in Ukraine demonstrates that there is a need for flexible, well equipped conventional forces, not nuclear ones.

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, Russia probably has some that still work, but this has been an entirely conventional war.
    You utterly miss the point.

    Firstly, Ukraine had nuclear weapons. They have up their possession of those weapons in return for security guarantees; which to their shame, the guarantors did not keep. There is zero way Russia would have done the Crimea and Donbass adventures if Ukraine had even the threat of working nukes.

    Secondly, the reaction to Russian nuclear 'threats' shows that the threats alone have a military power any number of regiments wouldn't have.

    The tragedy of the Russian evil is that it will lead to more countries with 'interesting' leaders accelerating their nuclear programs - as it shows that the threat of nukes allows you to pretty much what you want to non-nuke armed neighbours.

    And in such a world, it would be idiocy to remove our own capability.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244

    Taz said:

    Not quite down to the standards of the post office but this story beggars belief. A man was prosecuted by the DWP for overclaiming benefits. A total of £20,000 over many years. However the DWP now accept he made an innocent mistake.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

    Down to the same dynamic though.

    Start with the assumption that benefit claimants, like subpostmasters, are out to deliberately defraud "us", and everything follows.
    Good point. If your default position is they are all on the take then you are not likely to approach any investigation with an open mind.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,971
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
    I’m just waiting for him to call for more and harder Rwanda so his political journey is done.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244
    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    Interesting. IMHO this affects only a tiny number of seats, and if you do the maths, the more marginal the seat, the more Starmer needs the votes of those who usually vote Tory so I doubt if there is anything in this.

    BTW, on Gaza etc, Labour is going to stand more or less where the UK and the USA governments stand. There is no other place to go. It would be nice to be able to point to an alternative, morally sound policy with assured decent outcomes for good people on all sides but there isn't one to be had.
    The seats they are losing the votes in, like two mentioned in the article, are low turnout very safe seats anyway. I Think they are right not to be complacent. But my feeling is this is not 1992. It is also not 1997. There is no wave of fervour for labour. But there is a tiredness with the current lot and a feeling it is time they were put out to pasture.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,728
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    What do you expect when the Shadow Health Secretary slags off "Middle Class Lefties" in the press?
    What did he say ? I have not seen any comment from him to that effect, not doubting your word though.

    The reality is it is either labour or a coalition. I suspect enough people will vote labour and the seats they seem to be falling back in are safe.

    I did say here, when the Gaza thing kicked off, the muslim vote could end up costing labour in some seats. This was, of course, derided by some here however Labour people are also now waking up to it.

    Difficult for labour. After purging the party of anti semitism what do they do. Take a fair stance on Gaza, calling out both Hamas for its evil crimes and Israel for its conduct of the war and its murder of civilians or do they adopt the Blair era policy of just giving Israel unwavering support.

    Especially important as public opinion keeps moving in response to what they see.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/08/middle-class-lefties-wont-stop-labour-using-private-sector-to-cut-nhs-backlog-wes-streeting-says?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,007

    Taz said:

    Not quite down to the standards of the post office but this story beggars belief. A man was prosecuted by the DWP for overclaiming benefits. A total of £20,000 over many years. However the DWP now accept he made an innocent mistake.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/12/carers-allowance-benefit-error-30p-a-week-dwp

    Down to the same dynamic though.

    Start with the assumption that benefit claimants, like subpostmasters, are out to deliberately defraud "us", and everything follows.
    The court case last week was very much an example of DWP trying to pin their mistake back on the carer in a grossly unfair way.

    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
    Solar powered cars won’t happen because the amount of energy from the sun hitting the surface of the car is less than in needed to propel it. Even assuming 100% efficiency.

    You *can* build a weird kind of 4 wheel bicycle that can make slow progress in the Australian desert at noon.

    Improving the efficiency of solar cells is perfectly possible, but won’t be enough to make solar powered cars work.

    Cold fusion doesn’t work because the energy required to push atoms together is substantial.

    Regular fusion is progressing slowly, because of the difficulty of modelling ultra high intensity magnetic fields. And fusion reactions. Which means you have to build a succession of giant machines and feel your way to the result. That being said, it is fairly likely that ITER will get more energy out than goes in.

    First Light is one of dozens of attempts to do fusion differently. A number of them can neither be proved or disproved as to being viable, because of the modelling problem.
    From the bit of research I've done regarding getting solar panels on my oddly shaped roof - the current efficiency levels of panels aren't going to get much better than the current 23-24% the current panels produce.

    Even if a better technology is found I doubt it would make economic sense because the 8 panels are only £600 of the £4500 quotes I've had to put the panels up.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,244

    algarkirk said:

    Question. Recent reporting - Guardian etc - is on how some urban Labour seats are at risk because Labour are losing the votes of the younger and the more progressive voter - this on account of their policy on the Middle East, nuclear deterrence and so on.

    Can this be true? Are there significant numbers of seats (eg more than 5) where another party (and if so which) can win instead?

    The article mentions Bristol Central (vulnerable to Greens) and Sheffield Hallam (Lib Dems might win) and Brighton Pavillion. But I doubt there are many more than that. And as things stand, that's swamped by all the seats the Conservatives are on track to lose.
    I expect, rather like in 1997, labour will be picking up seats it would never in its wildest dreams have thought it would take 10 years ago. Especially in the south east and south west.

    The article does also mention seats like Ladywood and Riverside where support is slumping but these are rock solid labour seats and it acknowledges they will likely stay labour.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,575
    Taz said:

    We cancelled Netflix. Tempted to get it back now, This reeks of "contractual obligation"

    "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are to be the executive producers of two new nonfiction Netflix series focusing on lifestyle and polo.

    One show will explore “the joys of cooking, gardening, entertaining and friendship”, while the other will give “unprecedented access to the world of professional polo” and the US Open Polo Championship in Florida, Netflix said."

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/apr/11/harry-and-meghan-to-produce-two-netflix-series-about-lifestyle-and-polo

    "Archewell Productions, formed by the couple in 2020, is “dedicated to illuminating thought-provoking and diverse narratives that underscore our common humanity and celebrate community”, according to the company’s website."

    It's time someone in the media took elephant polo with the seriousness it merits. Step forward Harry....
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,642
    edited April 12

    algarkirk said:

    Question. Recent reporting - Guardian etc - is on how some urban Labour seats are at risk because Labour are losing the votes of the younger and the more progressive voter - this on account of their policy on the Middle East, nuclear deterrence and so on.

    Can this be true? Are there significant numbers of seats (eg more than 5) where another party (and if so which) can win instead?

    The article mentions Bristol Central (vulnerable to Greens) and Sheffield Hallam (Lib Dems might win) and Brighton Pavillion. But I doubt there are many more than that. And as things stand, that's swamped by all the seats the Conservatives are on track to lose.
    Can anyone explain why a photograph on an article on "progressive urban voters" is in a hospital in Sutton-in-Ashfield?

    Surely it should be an inner suburb of Nottingham, or similar?

    Quite a fun photo - he could be a character out of LA Confidential.

    (I still haven't forgiven those bastard editors on the Guardian for a photo they took of the three out of about twenty-five shops in our square that were closed for refurbishment, and wrote a storyline about how the whole thing was a disaster as a way of launching a rather self-serving attack on Lee Anderson.

    There's plenty to go at Lee Anderson on, without any need for lies about the constituency.)
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,758
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Meanwhile, you can see the way the wind is blowing when the Daily Mail does this:




    It's pretty clear that I should vote Labour as the best Tactical Vote to get rid of my smug Tory MP in their supposedly safe seat, which is now marginal on some polling.

    Starmer is doing everything he can to stop me, and I cannot stand Streeting. I may well vote Green.
    I think the events in Ukraine have pretty much demolished the arguments for unilateral disarmament. Not just the practical ones, but many of the moral ones as well.
    I would say the opposite. The 2022-present war in Ukraine demonstrates that there is a need for flexible, well equipped conventional forces, not nuclear ones.

    Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, Russia probably has some that still work, but this has been an entirely conventional war.
    Only because Russia doesnt want to nuke the lands it wants to integrate. No point fighting if all you get is a nuclear desert.
    Which proves my point!
    No it doesnt. As JJ points out a nuclear armed Ukraine wouldnt have been invaded in the first place. Nobody is going to be giving up nukes after the Ukraine war.
  • Options
    Taz said:

    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    Interesting Guardian article, briefed by Labour people, about the issues labour faces in trying to win back one set of voters possibly alienating the younger Gaza and Climate obsessed brigade.

    It is not just the Tories trying to straddle different voting blocks. Personally I am glad to see Labour standing up for working class communities and wanting to make their lives better and not just taking them for granted and if it means alienating younger people with their "student politics" approach to things, like those melts who attacked the MOD this week with paint, so be it.

    "The decision by Starmer, the Labour leader, to tack to the right on issues such as the economy, immigration and the environment has helped win over older white voters who backed Brexit at the referendum.

    But those decisions have also upset many traditional Labour voters in urban areas in particular. Among those voters’ chief concerns is the party’s decision to abandon its commitment to spend £28bn a year on green projects and Starmer’s defence of Israel’s military actions in Gaza."

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/11/labour-may-fail-to-grab-target-seats-as-young-voters-turn-away-over-gaza-and-climate

    Interesting. IMHO this affects only a tiny number of seats, and if you do the maths, the more marginal the seat, the more Starmer needs the votes of those who usually vote Tory so I doubt if there is anything in this.

    BTW, on Gaza etc, Labour is going to stand more or less where the UK and the USA governments stand. There is no other place to go. It would be nice to be able to point to an alternative, morally sound policy with assured decent outcomes for good people on all sides but there isn't one to be had.
    The seats they are losing the votes in, like two mentioned in the article, are low turnout very safe seats anyway. I Think they are right not to be complacent. But my feeling is this is not 1992. It is also not 1997. There is no wave of fervour for labour. But there is a tiredness with the current lot and a feeling it is time they were put out to pasture.
    Your regular reminder that the "wave of fervour for Labour" in 1997 involved turnout reducing by 6.4%.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,054
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
    Solar powered cars won’t happen because the amount of energy from the sun hitting the surface of the car is less than in needed to propel it. Even assuming 100% efficiency.

    You *can* build a weird kind of 4 wheel bicycle that can make slow progress in the Australian desert at noon.

    Improving the efficiency of solar cells is perfectly possible, but won’t be enough to make solar powered cars work.

    Cold fusion doesn’t work because the energy required to push atoms together is substantial.

    Regular fusion is progressing slowly, because of the difficulty of modelling ultra high intensity magnetic fields. And fusion reactions. Which means you have to build a succession of giant machines and feel your way to the result. That being said, it is fairly likely that ITER will get more energy out than goes in.

    First Light is one of dozens of attempts to do fusion differently. A number of them can neither be proved or disproved as to being viable, because of the modelling problem.
    Hence the FLF experimental machine.
    Even if their approach proves impractical, M4 will still be a world class high energy research facility.
    For a long time, my view has been that 'useful' manmade fusion for power will occur suddenly, but it will probably not occur in the direction we expect. There will be a series of small incremental improvements and lots of dead-ends; but the knowledge gained from even the failures will lead us to a new, or more focussed, direction. This is why it's important for all these companies and groups to share as much information as they can, if only because better data means better modelling.

    I'm a great fan of aneutronic fusion over 'normal' D-T or D-D fusion. Yes, it is much more complex to do, but the efficiencies and simplicity may make that worthwhile.
  • Options
    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    We already have solar powered cars, it just needs a battery to be charged via solar generated electricity.

    A battery-free car is never going to happen, but it doesn't need to be battery-free to be solar powered.
  • Options
    DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 578

    eek said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    viewcode said:
    That is indeed interesting.

    When I said I thought that one day we will have solar powered cars someone on here dismissed it as scientifically impossible. Which is what they said about landing on the moon and just about every great scientific breakthrough.
    Huge if true but many breakthroughs never make it from university press release to the real world.
    agreed, look at cold fusion..and Nuclear Fusion reactors for that matter.
    It’s only a matter of time.

    Every great scientific advance has always been presaged by the words ‘it can’t be done’

    It will be. Perhaps not in your lifetimes. But it will be.
    Yes, I mean has anyone ever told you about AI ?
    As someone who worked at Culham told me, over fifty years ago, 'Fusion is the energy of the future. Always has been, always will be.'
    Until First Light Fusion came along with a very different technique that does seem to be slowly getting there.
    Solar powered cars won’t happen because the amount of energy from the sun hitting the surface of the car is less than in needed to propel it. Even assuming 100% efficiency.

    You *can* build a weird kind of 4 wheel bicycle that can make slow progress in the Australian desert at noon.

    Improving the efficiency of solar cells is perfectly possible, but won’t be enough to make solar powered cars work.
    Use more sunlight for each car: put a huge multi-paned flexible mirror in terrestrial orbit that reflects sunlight down to each individual car so that an earthling can drive the vehicle to the bank, estate agency, or mobile phone company he works at and to the supermarket at weekends where he can choose between cans of baked beans with 5 different labels on, all priced differently.

    Then every book that quotes Marx on how the relations of production are out of line with the means of production, or which asks the social question, could just be incinerated.

    Progress! And think of the military importance.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,216
    algarkirk said:

    Taz said:

    We cancelled Netflix. Tempted to get it back now, This reeks of "contractual obligation"

    "The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are to be the executive producers of two new nonfiction Netflix series focusing on lifestyle and polo.

    One show will explore “the joys of cooking, gardening, entertaining and friendship”, while the other will give “unprecedented access to the world of professional polo” and the US Open Polo Championship in Florida, Netflix said."

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/apr/11/harry-and-meghan-to-produce-two-netflix-series-about-lifestyle-and-polo

    "Archewell Productions, formed by the couple in 2020, is “dedicated to illuminating thought-provoking and diverse narratives that underscore our common humanity and celebrate community”, according to the company’s website."

    It's time someone in the media took elephant polo with the seriousness it merits. Step forward Harry....
    He should get back to the serious business of opening community centres, providing bland photo ops for the state broadcaster and keeping the tabloids in business. The Firm seems somewhat short staffed in these vital areas of the British constitution currently.
This discussion has been closed.