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We need to talk about gender – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,428
    DavidL said:

    Part 2
    (4) It is a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to show that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable.
    (5) For the purposes of subsection (4), in determining whether behaviour or communication was reasonable, particular regard must be had to the importance of the right to freedom of expression by virtue of Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, including the general principle that the right applies to the expression of information or ideas that offend, shock or disturb.
    (6) For the purposes of subsection (4), it is shown that the behaviour or the communication of the material was, in the particular circumstances, reasonable if—
    (a) evidence adduced is enough to raise an issue as to whether that is the case, and
    (b) the prosecution does not prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is not the case.
    (7) For the purposes of subsections (1)(a)(i) and (2)(a)(i), a person's behaviour—
    (a) includes behaviour of any kind and, in particular, things that the person says, or otherwise communicates, as well as things that the person does,
    (b) may consist of—
    (i) a single act, or
    (ii) a course of conduct.
    (8) For the purposes of subsections (1)(a)(ii) and (2)(a)(ii), the ways in which a person may communicate material to another person are by—
    (a) displaying, publishing or distributing the material,
    (b) giving, sending, showing or playing the material to another person,
    (c) making the material available to another person in any other way.
    (9) A person who commits an offence under this section is liable—
    (a) on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both), or
    (b) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or a fine (or both).

    The reason that this is not just another example of how Scotland has ceased to be a free country is that the view of the Scottish courts is that if anything is published that can be and is read in Scotland then the offence occurs when and where it is read. So posts on this forum, for example, read by me in Dundee, gives the Scottish courts jurisdiction.

    You have been warned.

    Would surely lose at the highest court of the land (UK supreme court). I am NOT a Scottish citizen, nor do I live in Scotland. They should have no legal power over me.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,738

    The curious one is that FE and sixth form colleges are caught in the VAT system.

    https://feweek.co.uk/no-plans-to-exempt-colleges-from-vat-says-treasury-secretary/
    It's not just curious, it's outrageous. Colleges have campaigned on this for years, to no avail. There's absolutely no justification for post-16 education in schools and in colleges not being on a level playing field as regards VAT.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,473
    DavidL said:

    What we need to talk about is s4 of the Hate Crime and Public Order (S) Act 2021 which is due to come into force on 1st April 2024. This is apparently too long for a single post.

    4 Offences of stirring up hatred
    (1) A person commits an offence if—
    (a) the person—
    (i) behaves in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, or
    (ii) communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening, abusive or insulting, and
    (b) either—
    (i) in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins, or
    (ii) a reasonable person would consider the behaviour or the communication of the material to be likely to result in hatred being stirred up against such a group.
    (2) A person commits an offence if—
    (a) the person—
    ...
    (ii) communicates to another person material that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive, and
    (b) in doing so, the person intends to stir up hatred against a group of persons based on the group being defined by reference to a characteristic mentioned in subsection (3).
    (3) The characteristics are—
    (a) age,
    (b) disability,
    (c) religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,
    (d) sexual orientation,
    (e) transgender identity,
    (f) variations in sex characteristics.

    You will still be allowed to hate women, though.

    Seriously though, it would be an excellent topic for a thread header, especially if written by a Scots lawyer. Are you available?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,905
    Pagan2 said:

    Does that mean we can report MalcolmG for throwing turnips at the english?
    Potentially, yes. It is difficult to guess what the courts might make of this yet.
  • NEW THREAD

  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 795
    kinabalu said:

    Not that hard a question imo. Spend per pupil is much higher there. Other reasons too, no doubt, but that's the crux of it.
    Um, parents of children with an EHCP *don't* have the right to choose where their child goes any more than any other child. Most children with EHCPs are iun mainstream education. And if a child with an EHCP is excluded from mainstream education, they don't get to choose their alternative provision - the providers get to see the EHCP and indicate whether they would be willing to accept the child. So there are many children who are out of education because a) some providerswon't accept them and b) the funding for the alternative provision sector is so poor, there aren't places at the providers who would accept them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 23,925

    Quite. I'd be wary of banning such clubs and societies. Recently at the level of cricket that my ageing body aspires to, we have seen more and more girls and women playing in men's teams (they were never actually mens teams, but in practice that has been the situation for hundreds of years at club level.
    On the one hand its great - spreading the love of the greatest game etc. On another level - one of the reasons for still playing at 51 is the banter with your mates. And with women there its different. Not worse necessarily, and don't get the impression of old misogenistic dinosaurs, but its different.

    I believe that a group of men have the right to form a club that excludes women.
    I believe that a group of women have the right to form a club that excludes men.

    Thats equality.
    Equality of discrimination, certainly. Where do you stand on Cretans who say all Cretans are liars?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617
    Nigelb said:

    I think you'll find it's the forced starvation that UK politicians object to, though.
    I think it's UNWRA that is the problem. I think aid is getting through where are we with the US pier.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,871
    edited March 2024
    eristdoof said:

    When I was travelling the England canal network (2011-2012) there were large (for English canals) boats delivering gas to Leeds pretty much daily. That was on the Aire and Calder Navigation and I would be very surprised if that has stopped. Although it is a "Navigation" significant parts of it are canal.
    The local canal (Don Navigation) was upgraded as late as the 1980s but sadly a lot of the industry that would have used it has closed down.

    I believe the Humber Princess still makes the odd journey up river - I have seen it go past occasionally.
    https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:193706/mmsi:235065014/imo:7902386/vessel:HUMBER_PRINCESS


    Talking of industry and alternative transport, this was announced today:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-68639876

    Quite excited by it, to be honest. Big sheds!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,617
    edited March 2024

    As each of them will arrive with five grand+ funding and, presumably, reasonably engaged parents, most heads will be delighted unless they are heavily over subscribed and Tristram only got in because said parents came to the admissions appeal armed with a top barrister…
    Yes that is probably true. And, without making any assumptions, perhaps those heads might be concerned at the standards those parents had previously expected and might expect at their new school.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    As each of them will arrive with five grand+ funding and, presumably, reasonably engaged parents, most heads will be delighted unless they are heavily over subscribed and Tristram only got in because said parents came to the admissions appeal armed with a top barrister…
    The net effect will be to push the poorer deciles out of living in the cachement area of good schools and an increase in rent/house prices in those area's.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,487

    Not all public schools are equal. My old school accepted lots of kids from the local area, and the headmaster had a policy of accepting some kids who had been thrown out of school - as long as they passed entrance. With one exception I know of, they turned their lives around.

    It also felt like the heart of the community - particularly considering the two famous businesses that dominated the area.

    Could they have done more for the community? Perhaps; I was outside it. Would the community have missed it? From talikng to locals at the time; yes.
    Round here one of the worst secondary schools is ex private schools that was foisted on to the department of education when the finances started to fall apart
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,905
    Stocky said:

    I was going to wait for April Fools Day to bring this up.

    It's shocking. The SNP are plunging the county into a form of authoritarian dystopia.

    What push back is happening in Scotland over this. Will it damage the SNP electorally?
    Who knows? The relevant Minister is promising that the police will investigate every complaint, a promise they do not make, for example, in respect of burglary. They can also record any such alleged incident even when they take the view that an actual offence has not occurred.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    TOPPING said:

    I mean yes and thanks for the info but it is littered with "reasonable person" and doesn't this usually mean that vaguely sensible decisions are reached.
    History of court cases such as the robin hood airport tweet suggest no they won't reach vaguely sensible decisions
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,271

    Would surely lose at the highest court of the land (UK supreme court). I am NOT a Scottish citizen, nor do I live in Scotland. They should have no legal power over me.
    It's a terrifying state of affairs. Basically a snitcher's charter with shades of Orwell's 1984. Even if there are never any actual prosecutions under this law - the effect (indeed it's aim) is to corral everyone into an approved way of 'thinking'. In effect, a new blasphemy law. It is those who support this law that are doing the hating.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,844

    NEW THREAD

    Is there ?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    DavidL said:

    Who knows? The relevant Minister is promising that the police will investigate every complaint, a promise they do not make, for example, in respect of burglary. They can also record any such alleged incident even when they take the view that an actual offence has not occurred.

    As a side not apropos of the conversation the other day...that allegation was investigated or not will then show up on an enhanced dbs check
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,271
    Pagan2 said:

    As a side not apropos of the conversation the other day...that allegation was investigated or not will then show up on an enhanced dbs check
    Good point.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,487
    Pagan2 said:

    The net effect will be to push the poorer deciles out of living in the cachement area of good schools and an increase in rent/house prices in those area's.
    Which as I pointed out earlier on is just about the only argument that can be made apart the policy but it won’t actually impact that many people and for those who live in the catchment area the greater demand for their houses would result in them being happy.

    The problem is that it’s a popular policy where the counter attack is nuanced and doesn’t actually apply to that many people. And as shown above some people may like the idea their house is worth more

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,473
    DavidL said:

    Potentially, yes. It is difficult to guess what the courts might make of this yet.
    Pagan2 said:

    Does that mean we can report MalcolmG for throwing turnips at the english?
    We can also report you for throwing turnips at MalcolmG, even though I assume you don’t live in Scotland. It’s going to be unworkable in practice, but not before e.g. Stonewall try to get e.g. J K Rowling or Joanna Cherry charged.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,158
    HYUFD said:

    If Reform can't come at least second in 67.5% Leave Blackpool on current polls, where can they?
    Well... in 62.4% Leave Wellingborough, Reform got third place and 13.0%. And that was with just about the worst possible Conservative candidate.

    Reform's probelm in a nutshell. They hurt the Conservative vote everywhere but probably can't win anywhere. Their core vote- grumpy old men who don't like the way the world is going and especially don't like their own decrepitude- is too dispersed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,905

    You will still be allowed to hate women, though.

    Seriously though, it would be an excellent topic for a thread header, especially if written by a Scots lawyer. Are you available?
    I have thought about this but given my current employment I think the answer has to be no.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    We can also report you for throwing turnips at MalcolmG, even though I assume you don’t live in Scotland. It’s going to be unworkable in practice, but not before e.g. Stonewall try to get e.g. J K Rowling or Joanna Cherry charged.
    I have never thrown a turnip in my life...I don't waste food
  • eekeek Posts: 29,487
    edited March 2024
    TOPPING said:

    Yes that is probably true. And, without making any assumptions, perhaps those heads might be concerned at the standards those parents had previously expected and might expect at their new school.
    I really don’t think the expensive barrister argument works - any school that is over subscribed fully understands how to handle admission appeals - an expensive barrister isn’t going to help them, the staff member quietly telling you the key phrases to write in the appeal document is
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,744

    You will still be allowed to hate women, though.

    Seriously though, it would be an excellent topic for a thread header, especially if written by a Scots lawyer. Are you available?
    Surely both women and men have "variations in sex characteristics"?
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,141

    On the Isle of Wight, the Green vote was down in 2019 despite the Lib Dems standing aside for them, and they got two out of 39 councillors in 2021 on a reduced vote.

    In Bristol, we've been here before - they went in all guns blazing in 2019 and were on the wrong end of a 28k majority. The MP is strong, Labour are on the up - it just isn't happening. Extrapolating a win from a low stakes, low turnout local election is a bit naive.

    Norwich - Greens lost their deposit in both Norwich constituencies in 2019, and their local government presence there is nothing new.

    Waveney - we will, of course see if a very blue area does more than pat the Greens on the head and give them a few district council seats in a low turnout election. Maybe if Consevratives do badly enough, but it's a stretch.

    Brighton - they may, of course, hold a seat they won comfortably last time. Their activists would be wise to focus on that seat, though, as they fouled up running the Council and need all the help they can get with a change of candidate.
    Is the Green candidate there a carpet bagger, like the one replacing Caroline Lucas, or is she a local as well as a national figure >
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,424
    edited March 2024
    FF43 said:

    Wind intermittency is a sizeable issue but it can be overstated. There is huge demand variation anyway. Adding unaligned supply variation in one energy source is just another variable. Wind's role in the mix comes down to cost of production and how easily it can be switched off. If production is cheap you can afford to build lots of farms that stay idle for significant periods. At a certain % of energy mix the cost of the alternative supply/storage gets to be too much. But we're still a long way from that point for onshore wind.

    Nuclear suffers both from being highly inflexible (it can't easily be switched off) and having very high baseload costs. No-one has ever managed to make the business case stack up. But one station can generate huge amounts of electricity.
    But each of those wind providers wants to make a profit, so no, their facilities cannot lie idle, or to be more accurate, they can lie idle, but the providers will charge for the privilege. That becomes more and more of a problem as wind farms become more numerous.

    I am actually not for pulling down the windmills as @lostpassword has implied - we're balls deep in it and it's going to be with us for a while. But what I think we must do is reduce subsidies for everything, bar actual energy making it to the grid. I am comfortable with wind providers getting paid twice for the same power (once for storing it and not putting it on the grid, once for selling that stored power on to the grid during high demand), so they have a powerful commercial incentive to find storage solutions, which they don't have at the moment. This is why storage is nowhere - it doesn't pay to store.

    Interconnectors to Europe as mentioned by @DavidL are not the answer for many reasons.

    A cost benefit analysis commissioned by the National Grid found that plans as of 2016 showed a benefit to the UK, but interconnector capacity beyond that (which we have afaik now entered) did not. It benefitted the wider EU (where have we heard that before).

    Future levels of interconnection
    Since interconnectors change prices, decreasing marginal returns from additional
    interconnection and stronger impacts on other existing interconnectors in the long-term
    are expected as price arbitrage opportunities and revenues may be cannibalised.
    There is strong evidence to suggest that additional capacity close to that currently agreed
    (NEMO, Eleclink, cap and floor window 1) will provide a net benefit to GB under many
    circumstances (this is disputed - my note) . However, it is less clear whether significant additional interconnection
    beyond that will produce benefits to GB.
    The value of this interconnection will very much
    be asset and market specific and require more detailed consideration. Analysis focusing
    on GB suggests falling marginal benefits of certain additional interconnector capacity in at
    least in some market scenarios but more analysis would be beneficial. The majority of
    EU-wide studies would support much higher levels of interconnection, as these assess
    benefits over a wider geographical area.

    Where interconnectors offer benefit to the wider European system rather than specifically
    to GB, this benefit could be shared appropriately so that GB can be a net beneficiary.
    Mechanisms for such transfers are considered further in ACER’s proposed CBCA

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a8006a3e5274a2e87db767f/080_Poyry_CostsAndBenefitsOfGBInterconnection_v500.pdf

    So it benefits the EU, not the UK
    Hardly surprising that our civil servants have pursued it with uncustomary zeal.

    Further issues in the article below, summarised by me here:

    *Interconnectors with the continent don't help an awful lot given that we share night times, and often wind conditions.
    *Interconnector electricity imported into the UK is considered 'low carbon' but can be and often is generated by gas or even coal in its country of origin.
    *Interconnectors have proven unreliable and prone to accidental damage in the past, and that's before you even get to someone deciding to chop the line as an act of terrorism or war.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/31/green-energy-solar-wind-renewable-energy-interconnector/
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