Turnout, or lack of it, is going to be crucial in the General Election. How many previous Tory voters will sit on their hands? Labour's Conservative Lite policies won't scare them back to the polling booths.
How many former Conservative voters want "Tory Lite"?
How many current Labour voters want "Tory Lite"?
It is a product without a market.
23% of voters in 2010 went for Clegg’s orange book LDs, which is pretty much what Tory Lite is; plus arguably Cameron certainly ‘presented’ as Tory-lite (even if austerity was not, in practice).
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Spot on. But once they started on that journey, I would suggest that at least some of the centre (right) moved slightly left in reaction to that. Speaking personally, it highlighted that some views I held were uncomfortably close to that rightward move, and, when contrasted in that way, I decided I didn't like them and I needed to rethink.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Tbf Cameron and Osbourne did the real legwork on breaking Britain. Sunak is just a dork waving a Union flag atop the rubbish heap.
Being a beexiteer and reform supporters is, to me, the ultimate small D move. Your tiny D energy is threatened by everything. Can't compete in europe.... let's go hide on our island. Uhhh those people are different from me, I just can't be me when they are different. They say they are strong on culture, but their actions scream frailty. Truely smart and wealthy people don't need to talk about how intelligent and wealthy they are. Just like a truely confident national culture doesn't need to put up borders and hide away. So that is my take away on the male reform vote - we have all the small D energy guys feeling threatened and not being able to hack it so they vote that stuff.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
And making matters worse is that the more highly trained migrants appear to tend to leave.
Yes. In my department we recruited Spanish and Portuguese Nurses. They tended to work for a few years then go back home, so always a turnover*. It wasn't a major migration pressure as they rarely brought family, indeed often returned home when they wanted family.
The Keralan, Filipino and Southern African Nurses that we recruit now see it as permanent migration, so bring spouses and families. The visa and extra NHS charges are eye watering now, and that is a large part of the reason that we are now losing them to Australia and USA. Its not just baseline salaries that matter as per that article, but also these fees. It means little left over to live on, even in a place like Leicester with relatively cheap housing.
*We only have one left now, and it was because she married a Brit.
So was the system more manageable within the EU, or not, in your judgment ?
It was easier within the EU as recruitment was straightforward in terms of visas and professional registration. They needed a month or two of orientation then were full team members.
That is still true of the non-EU recruits but as well as expensive visas, the process of professional registration takes 6 months to a year. Hence it is only worthwhile if planning permanent migration, of which the NHS is a stepping stone into the First World, then often onwards but rarely home.
.@anneapplebaum : “Trump has decided that he doesn’t want money to go to Ukraine…It's a really extraordinary moment; we have an out-of-power ex-president who is in effect, dictating American foreign policy on behalf of a foreign dictator.”
Everything she says is right up until the last sentence.
We don’t *know* that Trump’s motive is to dictate American foreign policy “with the interests of a foreign dictator in mind”
An alternative scenario - which I think is plausible (although I don’t know) is he opposes Ukraine because Biden is in favour of it. It may, of course, also be Trump’s long standing dependence on Russian money.
But to make an unsupported allegation of treason and for it to pass unremarked is surprising
It passes unremarked because it is, I suspect, a majority view. Particularly in the light of the spectacular collapse of the impeachment hearings with proof of Russia's hand behind it all.
FWIW, I don't think Trump thinks of himself as a "traitor" - I think he is so self-obsessed that he fully identifies himself as "America". And so overestimates his own intelligence that he believes *he* is exploiting those foreign agencies.
Being a beexiteer and reform supporters is, to me, the ultimate small D move. Your tiny D energy is threatened by everything. Can't compete in europe.... let's go hide on our island. Uhhh those people are different from me, I just can't be me when they are different. They say they are strong on culture, but their actions scream frailty. Truely smart and wealthy people don't need to talk about how intelligent and wealthy they are. Just like a truely confident national culture doesn't need to put up borders and hide away. So that is my take away on the male reform vote - we have all the small D energy guys feeling threatened and not being able to hack it so they vote that stuff.
That's interesting - presuming you pass for male, writing a soliloquy about peoples' penis sizes without being able to type 'dick' tells me you probably have an 'inny' not an 'outy'.
.@anneapplebaum : “Trump has decided that he doesn’t want money to go to Ukraine…It's a really extraordinary moment; we have an out-of-power ex-president who is in effect, dictating American foreign policy on behalf of a foreign dictator.”
Everything she says is right up until the last sentence.
We don’t *know* that Trump’s motive is to dictate American foreign policy “with the interests of a foreign dictator in mind”
An alternative scenario - which I think is plausible (although I don’t know) is he opposes Ukraine because Biden is in favour of it. It may, of course, also be Trump’s long standing dependence on Russian money.
But to make an unsupported allegation of treason and for it to pass unremarked is surprising
I don't think Appelbaum's point is about what Trump's motivation is. It's that US foreign policy is being dictated by Trump's desire to see Ukraine weakened for his own personal motivation, because Trump has a large enough hold over the political process.
The implication is that much of the opposition to supporting Ukraine would die away if it wasn't for Trump's domination over the GOP
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
Meanwhile, my old college does a fund-raising drive to try to support the current medical students whose funding was cut by the government before new provisions kick in, next year, and they can't even afford to buy subsistence Ramen.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
And without them there would be British NHS workers but on higher pay.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Haven’t they raised taxes, increased immigration and spent more?
Yep - but they did not make a virtue of it. They chose to embrace the narratives of the right instead. It's been a disaster. They have entirely alienated the centre but have failed totally to convince their target audience.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Haven’t they raised taxes, increased immigration and spent more?
Yep - but they did not make a virtue of it. They chose to embrace the narratives of the right instead. It's been a disaster. They have entirely alienated the centre but have failed totally to convince their target audience.
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Being a beexiteer and reform supporters is, to me, the ultimate small D move. Your tiny D energy is threatened by everything. Can't compete in europe.... let's go hide on our island. Uhhh those people are different from me, I just can't be me when they are different. They say they are strong on culture, but their actions scream frailty. Truely smart and wealthy people don't need to talk about how intelligent and wealthy they are. Just like a truely confident national culture doesn't need to put up borders and hide away. So that is my take away on the male reform vote - we have all the small D energy guys feeling threatened and not being able to hack it so they vote that stuff.
That's interesting - presuming you pass for male, writing a soliloquy about peoples' penis sizes without being able to type 'dick' tells me you probably have an 'inny' not an 'outy'.
Small D energy is more a metaphor than an actual anatomical classification.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
And making matters worse is that the more highly trained migrants appear to tend to leave.
Yes. In my department we recruited Spanish and Portuguese Nurses. They tended to work for a few years then go back home, so always a turnover*. It wasn't a major migration pressure as they rarely brought family, indeed often returned home when they wanted family.
The Keralan, Filipino and Southern African Nurses that we recruit now see it as permanent migration, so bring spouses and families. The visa and extra NHS charges are eye watering now, and that is a large part of the reason that we are now losing them to Australia and USA. Its not just baseline salaries that matter as per that article, but also these fees. It means little left over to live on, even in a place like Leicester with relatively cheap housing.
*We only have one left now, and it was because she married a Brit.
So was the system more manageable within the EU, or not, in your judgment ?
It was easier within the EU as recruitment was straightforward in terms of visas and professional registration. They needed a month or two of orientation then were full team members.
That is still true of the non-EU recruits but as well as expensive visas, the process of professional registration takes 6 months to a year. Hence it is only worthwhile if planning permanent migration, of which the NHS is a stepping stone into the First World, then often onwards but rarely home.
My German sister-in-law worked as a doctor in the UK for three years not long after the start of her career. For her it was a straightforward way to gain experience abroad and polish her medical CV; for the UK is was access to cheap medical care in areas of the country where it was most needed. It's unlikely she would have done it with the bureaucracy it now involves.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
That GE19 winning Leaver coalition was built on deception. It worked short-term but was inherently unstable. Now it's unravelled and since their old indentity was lost in the process they are left with nothing. It's a deep structural problem for the Conservative Party, I think. Without major help from Labour they could be screwed for a long time, perhaps for ever. The next few years will be a real test of their famed adaptability and resilience.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Tbf Cameron and Osbourne did the real legwork on breaking Britain. Sunak is just a dork waving a Union flag atop the rubbish heap.
No, Blair and Brown broke it with an unsustainable, debt-fuelled boom with disastrously complacent financial regulation which crashed in 2007-8. That was when our economic under-performance started, not in 2010. And the Conservatives have largely failed to fix their mess.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
That GE19 winning Leaver coalition was built on deception. It worked short-term but was inherently unstable. Now it's unravelled and since their old indentity was lost in the process they are left with nothing. It's a deep structural problem for the Conservative Party, I think. Without major help from Labour they could be screwed for a long time, perhaps for ever. The next few years will be a real test of their famed adaptability and resilience.
I am not sure the Tories do adaptability any more.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
And without them there would be British NHS workers but on higher pay.
While the patients would also be on higher pay.
I don't think so. I'm not sure where these British workers would come from, or where these higher salaries come from either.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Haven’t they raised taxes, increased immigration and spent more?
Yep - but they did not make a virtue of it. They chose to embrace the narratives of the right instead. It's been a disaster. They have entirely alienated the centre but have failed totally to convince their target audience.
Words speak louder than action
Yes and no. The centre hears relentless anti-immigrant rhetoric and does not see that the growth forecasts the government relies on are entirely dependent on immigration. On the other hand, the right sees the data and ignores what ministers say.
I mean apart from the article not being about talking about *that* gender (good trolling TSE) why on earth shouldn't we talk about *that* gender on here. Or on online forums.
What a peculiar view.
Have a nice day also.
Quite entertaining, though, to see someone who has claimed to be a prize-winning highbrow writer and an acknowledged expert on gender issues not even realise from a first glance what the header is about. Let alone bother to read it.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
Eh ? Nurses and auxillary workers have reached agreement with the Gov't over pay, it's the higher paid doctors and consultants over 100k that can't seem to...
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
I mean apart from the article not being about talking about *that* gender (good trolling TSE) why on earth shouldn't we talk about *that* gender on here. Or on online forums.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
Really?! My understanding was that three As in the right subjects are no longer anywhere near enough, and as a bare minimum you need to have been working in a hospital for two years. So I'm glad to hear that's not necessarily the case.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
In other words, we know what to do but not how to get re-elected after doing it, as the Belgian put it. Which ultimately comes down us as voters.
Maybe the most patriotic thing the Conservatives can do is give Labour a walkover victory in 2028 and 2032 as well as 2024.
.@anneapplebaum : “Trump has decided that he doesn’t want money to go to Ukraine…It's a really extraordinary moment; we have an out-of-power ex-president who is in effect, dictating American foreign policy on behalf of a foreign dictator.”
Everything she says is right up until the last sentence.
We don’t *know* that Trump’s motive is to dictate American foreign policy “with the interests of a foreign dictator in mind”
An alternative scenario - which I think is plausible (although I don’t know) is he opposes Ukraine because Biden is in favour of it. It may, of course, also be Trump’s long standing dependence on Russian money.
But to make an unsupported allegation of treason and for it to pass unremarked is surprising
His first impeachment was over Ukraine. He harbours a grudge.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
...it's a classic chicken and egg argument, unfortunately if you kill the chicken, you remove the eggs and the hen house mortgage defaults...
"With every passing day I see more polling that makes me think that outcome of the next general election will make 1997 look like a good a result for the Tories when compared to GE2024."
We must not get ahead of ourselves but I do agree with this analysis.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row might be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
Turnout, or lack of it, is going to be crucial in the General Election. How many previous Tory voters will sit on their hands? Labour's Conservative Lite policies won't scare them back to the polling booths.
How many former Conservative voters want "Tory Lite"?
How many current Labour voters want "Tory Lite"?
It is a product without a market.
23% of voters in 2010 went for Clegg’s orange book LDs, which is pretty much what Tory Lite is; plus arguably Cameron certainly ‘presented’ as Tory-lite (even if austerity was not, in practice).
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
All this "Support for Reform (and Green) will be squeezed in the election" argument ignores how, in 2010, LibDem support went up over the course of the election campaign. Indeed, if not as spectacularly, LibDem support often rises in election campaigns. Maybe Reform and Green will benefit from similar forces.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It is of course still the golden ticket but, if you can possibly imagine this, it takes some time to cash it in.
Tik Tok age, youth of today, limited attention span, things were better in my day, etc...
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
Really?! My understanding was that three As in the right subjects are no longer anywhere near enough, and as a bare minimum you need to have been working in a hospital for two years. So I'm glad to hear that's not necessarily the case.
I'm glad as well, I'd often thought that you don't need 3 A grades or better to be a medic. I'm sure it is that high to reduce the number of applicants from schools. As a student in the 70s I well remember friends getting in to Medical school with 3 Bs.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
Medical degrees have strict limits on the number of overseas students, unlike most courses.
Turnout, or lack of it, is going to be crucial in the General Election. How many previous Tory voters will sit on their hands? Labour's Conservative Lite policies won't scare them back to the polling booths.
How many former Conservative voters want "Tory Lite"?
How many current Labour voters want "Tory Lite"?
It is a product without a market.
23% of voters in 2010 went for Clegg’s orange book LDs, which is pretty much what Tory Lite is; plus arguably Cameron certainly ‘presented’ as Tory-lite (even if austerity was not, in practice).
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
All this "Support for Reform (and Green) will be squeezed in the election" argument ignores how, in 2010, LibDem support went up over the course of the election campaign. Indeed, if not as spectacularly, LibDem support often rises in election campaigns. Maybe Reform and Green will benefit from similar forces.
Yebbut the 2010 Cleggasm is, let's face it, unlikely to manifest as a 2024 Daveygasm.... The guy has zero charisma, sex appeal, showbiz razzamatazz.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It is of course still the golden ticket but, if you can possibly imagine this, it takes some time to cash it in.
Tik Tok age, youth of today, limited attention span, things were better in my day, etc...
Isn't it more that basic living costs are far, far higher these days?
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It's not just the ongoing Jr doctors pay dispute, but also the expansion in recruitment, student debt for a 5 year course, and general poor morale within the NHS. It's not an enticing career any more, particularly for tha ambitious.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
In other words, we know what to do but not how to get re-elected after doing it, as the Belgian put it. Which ultimately comes down us as voters.
Maybe the most patriotic thing the Conservatives can do is give Labour a walkover victory in 2028 and 2032 as well as 2024.
Well they're giving the impression that they plan to do so
Seriously though Starmer, Reeves and Streeting will have a couple of years to introduce reforms which produce results in the long term.
Because by 2027 they could be behind in the polls and thinking about short term populist measures.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Where are the so called GOP non Trumpers in the US national polling .
We keep hearing that a sizeable chunk of Hayley’s supporters won’t vote for him but this group of so called more moderates you would think would be replicated at national level .
There’s no sign of this .
Haley voters and Independents don't like Trump but they aren't fans of Biden and his record either.
Hence most polls have Trump and Biden level pegging roughly and where those Independents go will decide the election. The verdict in Trump's criminal trials will also be a factor in that
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Why doesn't it put downward pressure on wages in other countries with high immigration - especially ones with relatively strong trade unions and employment protection laws?
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It's not just the ongoing Jr doctors pay dispute, but also the expansion in recruitment, student debt for a 5 year course, and general poor morale within the NHS. It's not an enticing career any more, particularly for tha ambitious.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
Been seeing that with trainees for years. Eventually decided I was just getting old.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It's not just the ongoing Jr doctors pay dispute, but also the expansion in recruitment, student debt for a 5 year course, and general poor morale within the NHS. It's not an enticing career any more, particularly for tha ambitious.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
I regularly get adverts on YouTube inviting me (as a putative healthcare professional) to emigrate to Canada. One of the key benefits cited is “respect for our employees”.
They will have focus grouped that approach & it would be entirely unsurprising sadly to discover that NHS workers don’t feel that they are held in any kind of regard, never mind high regard, by the current government.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It's not just the ongoing Jr doctors pay dispute, but also the expansion in recruitment, student debt for a 5 year course, and general poor morale within the NHS. It's not an enticing career any more, particularly for tha ambitious.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
Been seeing that with trainees for years. Eventually decided I was just getting old.
The advantage of being a teacher is that you can't say that about the DfE.
The quality in the 1970s that my mother railed against was almost identical to the quality now.
Turnout, or lack of it, is going to be crucial in the General Election. How many previous Tory voters will sit on their hands? Labour's Conservative Lite policies won't scare them back to the polling booths.
How many former Conservative voters want "Tory Lite"?
How many current Labour voters want "Tory Lite"?
It is a product without a market.
23% of voters in 2010 went for Clegg’s orange book LDs, which is pretty much what Tory Lite is; plus arguably Cameron certainly ‘presented’ as Tory-lite (even if austerity was not, in practice).
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
All this "Support for Reform (and Green) will be squeezed in the election" argument ignores how, in 2010, LibDem support went up over the course of the election campaign. Indeed, if not as spectacularly, LibDem support often rises in election campaigns. Maybe Reform and Green will benefit from similar forces.
Yebbut the 2010 Cleggasm is, let's face it, unlikely to manifest as a 2024 Daveygasm.... The guy has zero charisma, sex appeal, showbiz razzamatazz.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
Its not the amount of investment which matters most but how effective that investment is.
As you told us last week there's a £118m public sector investment in a Darlington office block happening - a lot of money but how effective it will be is questionable.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It is of course still the golden ticket but, if you can possibly imagine this, it takes some time to cash it in.
Tik Tok age, youth of today, limited attention span, things were better in my day, etc...
Isn't it more that basic living costs are far, far higher these days?
Maybe. But any way you look at it the career path and NPV of a "junior doctor" puts them into the upper decile of society at least.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Why doesn't it put downward pressure on wages in other countries with high immigration - especially ones with relatively strong trade unions and employment protection laws?
It does, perhaps at a different rate.
And the NHS has strong trade unions and employment protection laws.
The downward pressure of immigration on wages is even stronger in sectors such as fast food outlets and agriculture.
.@anneapplebaum : “Trump has decided that he doesn’t want money to go to Ukraine…It's a really extraordinary moment; we have an out-of-power ex-president who is in effect, dictating American foreign policy on behalf of a foreign dictator.”
Everything she says is right up until the last sentence.
We don’t *know* that Trump’s motive is to dictate American foreign policy “with the interests of a foreign dictator in mind”
An alternative scenario - which I think is plausible (although I don’t know) is he opposes Ukraine because Biden is in favour of it. It may, of course, also be Trump’s long standing dependence on Russian money.
But to make an unsupported allegation of treason and for it to pass unremarked is surprising
His first impeachment was over Ukraine. He harbours a grudge.
What's in it for me? is the starting point of everything DJT does.
It doesn't really matter to him where the line in the mud demarcating the border between two broken shit-holes is so he's not going to spend billions to move it a few 10s of kms.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
Really?! My understanding was that three As in the right subjects are no longer anywhere near enough, and as a bare minimum you need to have been working in a hospital for two years. So I'm glad to hear that's not necessarily the case.
Candidates need an A in Chemistry, pass the aptitude test and preferrably have some work or volunteer experience of a care environment. Often this is a volunteer for a few weeks in an old folks home.
At Leicester we prefer post A level candidates for a number of reasons: Greater maturity, ability to make definite rather than conditional offers, but also it brings a wider range of candidates. Independent schools often overegg predictions while state schools often underestimate their best students. So we get quite a lot who unexpectedly got better results than they anticipated, mostly from state schools.
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Tidal is big bang expensive construction projects; lots of concrete. It’s a lot like nuclear in that respect. Not as big as nuclear, but still.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
Eh ? Nurses and auxillary workers have reached agreement with the Gov't over pay, it's the higher paid doctors and consultants over 100k that can't seem to...
....with this government "reached agreement" means like it or lump it...
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Tidal is big bang expensive construction projects; lots of concrete. It’s a lot like nuclear in that respect. Not as big as nuclear, but still.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
Why not do both if feasible. We all know problem with the wind is you cannot depend on it.
The tides we know are a given. Can it be made to work though ?
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Why doesn't it put downward pressure on wages in other countries with high immigration - especially ones with relatively strong trade unions and employment protection laws?
It does, perhaps at a different rate.
And the NHS has strong trade unions and employment protection laws.
The downward pressure of immigration on wages is even stronger in sectors such as fast food outlets and agriculture.
This Dutch study on immigration says it does
“ if the immigration of the low- skilled workers increases by 5%, the income of the high-skilled will rise by 2% and the income of the low skilled will fall by 6%. If only the highly skilled come, the highly skilled lose 1% and the low skilled gain 3%. ”
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
Really?! My understanding was that three As in the right subjects are no longer anywhere near enough, and as a bare minimum you need to have been working in a hospital for two years. So I'm glad to hear that's not necessarily the case.
Candidates need an A in Chemistry, pass the aptitude test and preferrably have some work or volunteer experience of a care environment. Often this is a volunteer for a few weeks in an old folks home.
At Leicester we prefer post A level candidates for a number of reasons: Greater maturity, ability to make definite rather than conditional offers, but also it brings a wider range of candidates. Independent schools often overegg predictions while state schools often underestimate their best students. So we get quite a lot who unexpectedly got better results than they anticipated, mostly from state schools.
There's a whole story around the aptitude tests and whether they really measure aptitude and what that means. I think there's evidence that they've been a mistake and that GCSE/A'level performance remains the better indicator of ability, as we* showed here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/1741-7015-11-243
* I'm a co-author. I did very little on this, but the first author insisted I'd been helpful!
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It's not just the ongoing Jr doctors pay dispute, but also the expansion in recruitment, student debt for a 5 year course, and general poor morale within the NHS. It's not an enticing career any more, particularly for tha ambitious.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
I regularly get adverts on YouTube inviting me (as a putative healthcare professional) to emigrate to Canada. One of the key benefits cited is “respect for our employees”.
They will have focus grouped that approach & it would be entirely unsurprising sadly to discover that NHS workers don’t feel that they are held in any kind of regard, never mind high regard, by the current government.
Canada has such 'respect for our employees' that it has a severe shortage of health workers:
As Canada faces a severe shortage of nurses and doctors, the federal government recently announced measures to attract more health-care professionals in underserved regions, especially rural and remote areas.
In mid-February, the government announced it is increasing student loan debt relief for rural doctors and nurses by 50 per cent.
Canada is expected to face significant labour shortages in general practitioners and family physicians across the country from 2022 to 2031, according to data from the federal government. The data shows Canada has fewer doctors per capita than most OECD countries, which may hurt the ability of Canadians to receive timely care.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
That is an odd comment. Roads, houses, hospitals, schools and other infrastructure of course benefit our own citizens more than new immigrants, simply because there are a lot more citizens than new immigrants.
The forecasts are that we are going to have 6m more people here in 10 years time. Our options are:
1. Continue to elect governments who pretend to stop this happening, but don't as the economic cost of stopping this is too great, and heavily focused on government run sectors like health and care. 2. Actually stop it happening, accept a significant further deterioration in health, and care, damage our balance of payments and university sector from overseas students, and see significant tax rises. 3. Accept it is happening to support valuable parts of our economy and build the required infrastructure to reduce the impact on both existing residents and fresh immigrants.
I suspect we will choose 1 which will satisfy no-one bar temporarily the politicians elected, but it seems fairly obvious that 3 is the best path.
Turnout, or lack of it, is going to be crucial in the General Election. How many previous Tory voters will sit on their hands? Labour's Conservative Lite policies won't scare them back to the polling booths.
How many former Conservative voters want "Tory Lite"?
How many current Labour voters want "Tory Lite"?
It is a product without a market.
23% of voters in 2010 went for Clegg’s orange book LDs, which is pretty much what Tory Lite is; plus arguably Cameron certainly ‘presented’ as Tory-lite (even if austerity was not, in practice).
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
All this "Support for Reform (and Green) will be squeezed in the election" argument ignores how, in 2010, LibDem support went up over the course of the election campaign. Indeed, if not as spectacularly, LibDem support often rises in election campaigns. Maybe Reform and Green will benefit from similar forces.
Yebbut the 2010 Cleggasm is, let's face it, unlikely to manifest as a 2024 Daveygasm.... The guy has zero charisma, sex appeal, showbiz razzamatazz.
He will offer the WASPI women some cash. That will be a fabulous aphrodisiac from Mr Dull. The home counties will be hot for Ed's party.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
Weirdly, while the government prioritises health workers for immigrant visas, it makes it almost impossible for British-born students to get university places to study medicine. It's as if it wants to be dependent on immigration indefinitely.
For extra comic value - while telling universities that the places for medical school are limited, the government then uses part of the overseas aid budget to pay for foreign medical students.
The only foreign resident medical students we get are self funding Malaysian Chinese. This is because of their own governments race quota system for their medical schools. They pretty much all go back.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
That last comment is really interesting. Do you think that the publicity of the junior doctors pay row night be having an impact? People realising that a medical degree is no longer the golden ticket it once was?
It is of course still the golden ticket but, if you can possibly imagine this, it takes some time to cash it in.
Tik Tok age, youth of today, limited attention span, things were better in my day, etc...
Isn't it more that basic living costs are far, far higher these days?
For everyone, not just doctors. I live next door to 2 NHS workers, we shop at the same shops! But NHS pay rises have far outstripped my pay rises.
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Tidal is big bang expensive construction projects; lots of concrete. It’s a lot like nuclear in that respect. Not as big as nuclear, but still.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
Not so much offshore - it needs a lot of supporting infrastructure.
Some serious money invested in the UK grid would save a lot of subsidy paid to wind power for not producing.
A tidal barrage in Liverpool would pretty well plug straight in.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Haven’t they raised taxes, increased immigration and spent more?
Indeed. That is the far right, some even claim Fascist, Tory Party for you. Raise taxes, raise spending, increase inward migration. Very right wing.
Important difference. This government has done those things because of its failure.
They told people that they wanted to cut spending, but couldn't. They've had to raise taxes, in part because the economy hasn't grown. They have been forced to increase immigration, despite all the rhetoric, because the economy and public services would be even more dismal if they didn't.
In as much as the "wouldn't it be great to be like Switzerland?" talk made sense, it was a kind of cargo cult. Governments since 2016 have tried to copy the surface features (controlled immigration, high pay) without considering what wiring behind the walls was making that work.
They've lost the centre to the left and the right to the right. That spells doom.
They did not lose the centre. They walked away from it towards a right that can never be satisfied.
Haven’t they raised taxes, increased immigration and spent more?
Indeed. That is the far right, some even claim Fascist, Tory Party for you. Raise taxes, raise spending, increase inward migration. Very right wing.
Doing everything the centre left want whilst being told they are unfit for purpose and that the country needs a change! I think people just want their side to win.
If Sir Keir just quietly continues with current Tory policies, I doubt his supporters will complain.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Immigration will very probably come down when Labour are elected. This won't be because Labour have been elected, but student numbers will stabilise (i.e. outflow equals inflow, so minimal contribution to net immigration) and numbers on the Hong Kong and Ukraine schemes will fall.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the stuff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
Where are the so called GOP non Trumpers in the US national polling .
We keep hearing that a sizeable chunk of Hayley’s supporters won’t vote for him but this group of so called more moderates you would think would be replicated at national level .
There’s no sign of this .
Haley voters and Independents don't like Trump but they aren't fans of Biden and his record either.
Hence most polls have Trump and Biden level pegging roughly and where those Independents go will decide the election. The verdict in Trump's criminal trials will also be a factor in that
It is much too early to read ‘Trump and Biden’ and ‘pegging roughly’ in the same sentence.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
Hardly the creation of the OBR simply continually reinforces the stupidity of austerity.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Why doesn't it put downward pressure on wages in other countries with high immigration - especially ones with relatively strong trade unions and employment protection laws?
It does, perhaps at a different rate.
And the NHS has strong trade unions and employment protection laws.
The downward pressure of immigration on wages is even stronger in sectors such as fast food outlets and agriculture.
Living standards in Germany and the Nordic countries - where there is also very high immigration - are far higher than they are in the UK. Strong trade unions is a relative term. All unions in this country are bound by our trade union laws, which are far harsher than they are in, say, Germany and the Nordic countries - as are basic employment laws, of course.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Immigration will very probably come down when Labour are elected. This won't be because Labour have been elected, but student numbers will stabilise (i.e. outflow equals inflow, so minimal contribution to net immigration) and numbers on the Hong Kong and Ukraine schemes will fall.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the staff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
The immigration talk seems to me to be a very poor attempt at distraction - don’t look there, look at this tiny item here.
Problem is the tiny item they want people to focus on is unfixable
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Tidal is big bang expensive construction projects; lots of concrete. It’s a lot like nuclear in that respect. Not as big as nuclear, but still.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
Why not do both if feasible. We all know problem with the wind is you cannot depend on it.
The tides we know are a given. Can it be made to work though ?
One problem with tidal is that it’s predictable but annoyingly periodic in a way that doesn’t line up with the 24 hour day over time. So you still have the problem that to actually use this power you really need to be able to store it somewhere, which drives up costs. Otherwise you’re going to spend half the year selling it into the market at off-peak times when you have power, so your return on capital is nowhere near what you’d expect from a naive calculation based on the mean electricity price.
Neither wind nor tidal can delivery power at short notice when you need it. You either need peak power plants (basically natgas at the moment) or batteries on a huge scale.
This isn’t actually too bad though - in the short term we already have the natgas plants & if we only use them for filling in the gaps then the CO2 impact is small & batteries are only getting cheaper over time. It’s already getting to the point that installing a battery in your house (+ ancillery gear) and paying spot for electricity is a net win for many people.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
They also fucked up nuclear. First by delaying it, then by signing a contract with a semi-competent French enterprise, on disadvantageous terms.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Immigration will very probably come down when Labour are elected. This won't be because Labour have been elected, but student numbers will stabilise (i.e. outflow equals inflow, so minimal contribution to net immigration) and numbers on the Hong Kong and Ukraine schemes will fall.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the staff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
The immigration talk seems to me to be a very poor attempt at distraction - don’t look there, look at this tiny item here.
Problem is the tiny item they want people to focus on is unfixable
They haven't fixed it. That doesn't mean it's unfixable.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Immigration will very probably come down when Labour are elected. This won't be because Labour have been elected, but student numbers will stabilise (i.e. outflow equals inflow, so minimal contribution to net immigration) and numbers on the Hong Kong and Ukraine schemes will fall.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the staff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
The immigration talk seems to me to be a very poor attempt at distraction - don’t look there, look at this tiny item here.
Problem is the tiny item they want people to focus on is unfixable
They haven't fixed it. That doesn't mean it's unfixable.
Go on then - how do you stop people traveling by boat from France?
Remember that employing an illegal worker now carries a £40,000+ fine
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Immigration will very probably come down when Labour are elected. This won't be because Labour have been elected, but student numbers will stabilise (i.e. outflow equals inflow, so minimal contribution to net immigration) and numbers on the Hong Kong and Ukraine schemes will fall.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the stuff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
Lets be honest about the numbers. If we have 600k foreign students per year, with a high proportion from India, Pakistan and Nigeria (countries we/the government target specifically) we would be looking at something like 60-100k migration per year above one in, one out.
Yes a relatively small percentage of current immigration, but in a world where a large part of the country wants total net migration less than 100k it is not minimal.
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
Classic short termism, once again. Mass immigration makes every problem it is intended to resolve worse, either immediately (pressure on public services from a larger population) or in the longer term (creating a larger cohort of dependent elderly further down the line, in turn applying pressure for even more massive numbers of immigrants.) It also has the effect, of course, of making the strangulated supply of available housing even more fantastically expensive, which is wholly intentional since it makes the wealthy older voters whom the political parties most care about even richer. But then, the people who are making these decisions care about their careers, which are now, not the worse mess they are creating in 20 years time, which is the job of some other dumb schmuck to try to cope with, so none of this comes as any surprise.
Ignoring tidal and getting the taxpayer to stump up for more offshore wind (when companies won't even invest unless the Government raises the price per kh to stupid levels) is cretinous. £8.3bn to erect floating windmills in case it's blowy, meanwhile the tides come in and go out every day like clockwork and we fail to harness them.
It doesn't have to be either or.
Given that this announcement would have been an opportunity to revive the prospect of tidal going ahead, I think this windmill announcement shows it's absolutely an either or. *This* is what they've been percolating away in all those years of having zero policies?
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
I really think that the failure of tidal to take off thus far is because there's no grifting money in things that actually work, and produce power for sensible money and in a timely fashion. Contrast with the truly eye watering sums involved in nuclear investment, or the subsidy jungle of wind.
Tidal is big bang expensive construction projects; lots of concrete. It’s a lot like nuclear in that respect. Not as big as nuclear, but still.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
Why not do both if feasible. We all know problem with the wind is you cannot depend on it.
The tides we know are a given. Can it be made to work though ?
One problem with tidal is that it’s predictable but annoyingly periodic in a way that doesn’t line up with the 24 hour day over time. So you still have the problem that to actually use this power you really need to be able to store it somewhere, which drives up costs. Otherwise you’re going to spend half the year selling it into the market at off-peak times when you have power, so your return on capital is nowhere near what you’d expect from a naive calculation based on the mean electricity price.
Neither wind nor tidal can delivery power at short notice when you need it. You either need peak power plants (basically natgas at the moment) or batteries on a huge scale.
This isn’t actually too bad though - in the short term we already have the natgas plants & if we only use them for filling in the gaps then the CO2 impact is small & batteries are only getting cheaper over time. It’s already getting to the point that installing a battery in your house (+ ancillery gear) and paying spot for electricity is a net win for many people.
Added to that is that we'll require much more generation capacity if all transport becomes electrified. Ditto domestic heating.
Car charging is almost ideally suited for off peak electricity.
This government has broken Britain. Sunak disagrees, and seems to think its marvellous. This is the basic issue they have - they can't accept reality, so they can't propose solutions, so they don't have any policies, so they are sliding into the abyss.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
Most of this country's problems can be solved by a couple of decades of it living within its means, an improvement in public sector productivity and a bit of intergenerational wealth transfer.
The amount of investment required to get public infrastructure and public sector productivity to the correct levels makes that virtually impossible.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
It has been easily the worst government since WW2. Of course the global financial crisis meant they had a poor hand, but boy have they played it badly.
Since 2010 the Tories have had two flagship policies - austerity and then Brexit. Both of these have proved ignominious failures - austerity did not reduce the public sector deficit and Brexit has proved to be a political and economic albatross around the necks of both the UK and the Tories.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
I would add in completely fucking up HS2. The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
They also fucked up nuclear. First by delaying it, then by signing a contract with a semi-competent French enterprise, on disadvantageous terms.
And not chucking Rolls Royce the money for their first few small modular reactors to allow them to start work early.
So health & social care employees (and their dependents), to gather with students (and their dependents) account for the majority of immigration (by some distance). Encouraged by government policy.
And without them both healthcare, and the university system (which now gets the majority of its fee income from overseas), would collapse.
That is not a situation which can be changed significantly without a great deal of effort, over a long period of time. Certainly not in a single Parliament.
But what could change very quickly and cheaply is the lying and dissembling about it.
We could also build the infrastructure and housing required to make immigration more comfortable for society generally.
Why would we do that when we are not building anything for our own citizens ?
Immigrants on visa's and their families will be contributing to the economy with their taxes, NI contributions and extra NHS tax, thus raising the growth figures which help pay for the NHS etc. Why shouldn't the immigrants be catered for with infrastructure and house building? You never know...perhaps the indigenous population would benefit from the extra doctor surgeries and hospital places and school places which would be created?
I have nothing agaisnt immigration per se, we're an immigrant nation. But to have nearly 10 million extra people since 2000 and nothing being done for national infrastructure, housing or social fabric suggests we need to digest what we have first rather than go getting more.
Furthermore why is it ok to steal other nations skilled employees ? A doctor in a less developed country is of more value there than over here managing diseases brought on by first world lifestyles. We should be training our own people.
It's all very well saying we have to digest who we have already, but isn't it about time we started doing stuff about? It's like taking the money before doing the job. We have benfitted from immigant labour without doing anything in return. As far as the second paragraph is concerned, many skilled employees work abroad so we shouldn't be protectionist in that way. I remember at University many engineers training in the UK and promptly going back to their countries.
You mean the rich have benefited from immigrant labour as it has put downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Most workers, and especially the low paid, have not benefited from immigrant labour.
That will be a surprise to all the working class folk being looked after on my ward, where more than half the staff are immigrants.
Likewise the clients of the NHS dental practice that I use, the staff of which are, with just one exception, of south Asian heritage.
Why do you equate people with south Asian heritage with immigrants ?
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Yet when low paid healthworkers ask for more pay, they are told to piss off.
That's because they can be replaced by cheaper immigrant workers.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Why doesn't it put downward pressure on wages in other countries with high immigration - especially ones with relatively strong trade unions and employment protection laws?
It does, perhaps at a different rate.
And the NHS has strong trade unions and employment protection laws.
The downward pressure of immigration on wages is even stronger in sectors such as fast food outlets and agriculture.
Living standards in Germany and the Nordic countries - where there is also very high immigration - are far higher than they are in the UK. Strong trade unions is a relative term. All unions in this country are bound by our trade union laws, which are far harsher than they are in, say, Germany and the Nordic countries - as are basic employment laws, of course.
Immigration law is changing in Sweden though
“In November 2023 a new requirement for labour migrants from third countries was introduced in Sweden: in order to obtain a work permit, labour migrants must have secured a monthly salary amounting to at least 80% of the gross median salary in Sweden, which is SEK 27 360 (approximately 2 200 EUR).
The report contains several proposals aimed at tightening conditions for low-skilled labour immigration to Sweden, while concurrently fostering the influx of highly skilled labour migrants. Key proposals here include:
Focus should be redirected towards skilled labour, with a requirement for wages equivalent to 100% of the median income to be met for individuals seeking residence work permits in Sweden. This corresponds to a gross salary of SEK 34 200 a month (2 800 EUR). Exemptions from wage requirements should be made for recent graduates, in order to promote highly skilled labour immigration. The option for individuals with failed asylum applications to apply, from within the country, for a residence permit for work or a work permit should be cancelled Certain professions should be excluded from eligibility for work permits, such as domestic care workers. “
Comments
It’s not in favour at the moment simply because we did it and it was rubbish, pretty much.
I don’t think Starmer’s Labour is Tory-lite either. But I think making outward displays of intent around spending constraint is just electorally sensible.
That isn't even a left / right issue. Truss managed to identify things are broken from the right, its just that her prescription was from the lunatic asylum.
Unless the Tories can even face up to the mess, never mind proposing a way forward, they are sunk. This is much bigger than the kind of STOP THE BOATS retail politics Sunak has failed at. Our problems are much deeper. And he doesn't get it.
That is still true of the non-EU recruits but as well as expensive visas, the process of professional registration takes 6 months to a year. Hence it is only worthwhile if planning permanent migration, of which the NHS is a stepping stone into the First World, then often onwards but rarely home.
FWIW, I don't think Trump thinks of himself as a "traitor" - I think he is so self-obsessed that he fully identifies himself as "America". And so overestimates his own intelligence that he believes *he* is exploiting those foreign agencies.
The implication is that much of the opposition to supporting Ukraine would die away if it wasn't for Trump's domination over the GOP
You could, for example, build this for around £3.5bn
https://utilityweek.co.uk/liverpool-advances-plans-for-worlds-largest-tidal-scheme/?amp=true
Though why it couldn't start construction before 2030 is a puzzle.
If the next government did nothing else other than speed up planning for major projects, it would be a vast improvement on what we have.
While the patients would also be on higher pay.
Our Medical Students are diverse ethnically, but almost all were born here, and even the oothers usually arrived as children.
Incidentally, it isn't particularly difficult to get into Medical School any more for those with A levels of the right calibre, indeed we often now have places in clearing.
In reality continuous waves of immigration, used to keep wages down, adversely effects those of earlier immigrant groups or their children / grandchildren working in the same profession.
Stop/reduce those waves of migration and basic supply and demand forces up wages.
As I said previously the rich benefit from immigrant labour as it puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on property values.
Maybe the most patriotic thing the Conservatives can do is give Labour a walkover victory in 2028 and 2032 as well as 2024.
In future times the Tory Government from 2010-2024 will be regarded as a period of lost opportunities where this country lost its position in the world
...I think...
We must not get ahead of ourselves but I do agree with this analysis.
Even Yougov also still has the Tories ahead of Reform with women
Tik Tok age, youth of today, limited attention span, things were better in my day, etc...
Is he going to cough up the cash, which he claims to have despite his lawyers saying he didn't, or is he going to see his assets seized?
I personally think if he had the cash he would have posted it by now.
It makes me sound a bit of the old codger that I am, but the calibre of the Undergraduates that I interviewed this season seemed lower than previous years.
Seriously though Starmer, Reeves and Streeting will have a couple of years to introduce reforms which produce results in the long term.
Because by 2027 they could be behind in the polls and thinking about short term populist measures.
Hence most polls have Trump and Biden level pegging roughly and where those Independents go will decide the election. The verdict in Trump's criminal trials will also be a factor in that
They will have focus grouped that approach & it would be entirely unsurprising sadly to discover that NHS workers don’t feel that they are held in any kind of regard, never mind high regard, by the current government.
The quality in the 1970s that my mother railed against was almost identical to the quality now.
Really shit.
As you told us last week there's a £118m public sector investment in a Darlington office block happening - a lot of money but how effective it will be is questionable.
And the NHS has strong trade unions and employment protection laws.
The downward pressure of immigration on wages is even stronger in sectors such as fast food outlets and agriculture.
It doesn't really matter to him where the line in the mud demarcating the border between two broken shit-holes is so he's not going to spend billions to move it a few 10s of kms.
The scale of the Tory failure is unusual - most governments can point to some policies (Blair investment in public services & devolution, Thatcher privatisation etc) which can be argued to have been successful - there have been no such achievements over the past 14 years. The record is one of unmitigated failure.
At Leicester we prefer post A level candidates for a number of reasons: Greater maturity, ability to make definite rather than conditional offers, but also it brings a wider range of candidates. Independent schools often overegg predictions while state schools often underestimate their best students. So we get quite a lot who unexpectedly got better results than they anticipated, mostly from state schools.
Wind is incremental - you can build it out one turbine at a time if you want to.
The tides we know are a given. Can it be made to work though ?
The BBC have just reported on the findings of immigration into the UK in 2023 which shows over 600,000 work and over 600,000 student visas were issues with just over 100,000 for Ukraine and Hong Kong citizens and 80,000 family
Included in the work visas were health and care workers which are vital to that sector and of course the student numbers underpin the university sector without whom UK student fees would be astronomical
Just over 30,000 crossed the channel and stopping the boats is essential not least for those attempting the perilous crossing, but the conservatives have made it an enormous political issue
The BBC interviewed Braverman on whose watch this happened and she said Sunak ignored her ( good for him) as she demanded a stop on these levels of immigration and he would only talk about the channel crossings to her
The reality, as this BBC article affirms is that no political party is going to be able to reduce the numbers significantly
The BBC also said they had asked Labour to appear on the programme but they refused which in itself is interesting
This is the article
BBC News - Say one thing, do another? The government’s record rise in net migration
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68626430
“ if the immigration of the low- skilled workers increases by 5%, the income of the high-skilled will rise by 2% and the income of the low skilled will fall by 6%. If only the highly skilled come, the highly skilled lose 1% and the low skilled gain 3%. ”
https://demo-demo.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Borderless_Welfare_State-2.pdf
* I'm a co-author. I did very little on this, but the first author insisted I'd been helpful!
As Canada faces a severe shortage of nurses and doctors, the federal government recently announced measures to attract more health-care professionals in underserved regions, especially rural and remote areas.
In mid-February, the government announced it is increasing student loan debt relief for rural doctors and nurses by 50 per cent.
Canada is expected to face significant labour shortages in general practitioners and family physicians across the country from 2022 to 2031, according to data from the federal government. The data shows Canada has fewer doctors per capita than most OECD countries, which may hurt the ability of Canadians to receive timely care.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/are-you-a-health-care-worker-who-decided-to-leave-canada-1.6793691
It is also tightening immigration criteria:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68621013
Similar problems exist in pretty much all the western world.
I particularly liked the bit about no Party being able to reduce numbers significantly. Surely this is obvious by now to all but the dullest voters.
The forecasts are that we are going to have 6m more people here in 10 years time. Our options are:
1. Continue to elect governments who pretend to stop this happening, but don't as the economic cost of stopping this is too great, and heavily focused on government run sectors like health and care.
2. Actually stop it happening, accept a significant further deterioration in health, and care, damage our balance of payments and university sector from overseas students, and see significant tax rises.
3. Accept it is happening to support valuable parts of our economy and build the required infrastructure to reduce the impact on both existing residents and fresh immigrants.
I suspect we will choose 1 which will satisfy no-one bar temporarily the politicians elected, but it seems fairly obvious that 3 is the best path.
I live next door to 2 NHS workers, we shop at the same shops!
But NHS pay rises have far outstripped my pay rises.
Some serious money invested in the UK grid would save a lot of subsidy paid to wind power for not producing.
A tidal barrage in Liverpool would pretty well plug straight in.
He'll have the money from somewhere.
This government has done those things because of its failure.
They told people that they wanted to cut spending, but couldn't. They've had to raise taxes, in part because the economy hasn't grown. They have been forced to increase immigration, despite all the rhetoric, because the economy and public services would be even more dismal if they didn't.
In as much as the "wouldn't it be great to be like Switzerland?" talk made sense, it was a kind of cargo cult. Governments since 2016 have tried to copy the surface features (controlled immigration, high pay) without considering what wiring behind the walls was making that work.
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1771911349850845666?cxt=HBwWxMe91YL_i5cxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
If Sir Keir just quietly continues with current Tory policies, I doubt his supporters will complain.
The creation of the OBR is their only achievement.
I think voter interest in immigration will also come down because the government won't be banging on about it all the time. The Conservatives are constantly talking about controlling immigration while delivering record high immigration. It's bizarre behaviour. I am sensible enough not to bang on about the stuff I'm bad at! Campaigning as if you are in opposition doesn't work when you've been in power for 14 years.
Problem is the tiny item they want people to focus on is unfixable
Neither wind nor tidal can delivery power at short notice when you need it. You either need peak power plants (basically natgas at the moment) or batteries on a huge scale.
This isn’t actually too bad though - in the short term we already have the natgas plants & if we only use them for filling in the gaps then the CO2 impact is small & batteries are only getting cheaper over time. It’s already getting to the point that installing a battery in your house (+ ancillery gear) and paying spot for electricity is a net win for many people.
First by delaying it, then by signing a contract with a semi-competent French enterprise, on disadvantageous terms.
Remember that employing an illegal worker now carries a £40,000+ fine
Yes a relatively small percentage of current immigration, but in a world where a large part of the country wants total net migration less than 100k it is not minimal.
Car charging is almost ideally suited for off peak electricity.
Something that has gone scarily quiet
“In November 2023 a new requirement for labour migrants from third countries was introduced in Sweden: in order to obtain a work permit, labour migrants must have secured a monthly salary amounting to at least 80% of the gross median salary in Sweden, which is SEK 27 360 (approximately 2 200 EUR).
The report contains several proposals aimed at tightening conditions for low-skilled labour immigration to Sweden, while concurrently fostering the influx of highly skilled labour migrants. Key proposals here include:
Focus should be redirected towards skilled labour, with a requirement for wages equivalent to 100% of the median income to be met for individuals seeking residence work permits in Sweden. This corresponds to a gross salary of SEK 34 200 a month (2 800 EUR).
Exemptions from wage requirements should be made for recent graduates, in order to promote highly skilled labour immigration.
The option for individuals with failed asylum applications to apply, from within the country, for a residence permit for work or a work permit should be cancelled
Certain professions should be excluded from eligibility for work permits, such as domestic care workers. “
https://migrant-integration.ec.europa.eu/news/sweden-government-inquiry-proposes-stricter-labour-immigration-regulations_en