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Could Corbyn defect to Galloway’s party? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,662
    Just looking at the newspaper front pages.

    I see that the Express has jumped aboard the good ship #Priti4Leader

  • Options
    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,604

    On topic,

    - No, Corbyn will not defect to Galloway's latest vehicle. He may well, however, contest Islington as either an independent or with his own party. I'd be amazed if he saw any value to himself in accepting Galloway's leadership, and Galloway certainly wouldn't accept anyone else's.

    - I agree, Galloway will try to unseat Rayner, and will fail.

    - Galloway can describe himself how he likes but no genuine left-winger would align with the right in various guises, from defending the highly socially conservative Tehran regime to being the 'guest star' at Grassroots Out Brexit launch, to being an RT mouthpiece of the outright fascist Kremlin. He may well be left-wing in some respects but he's mainly just anti-West. He doesn't really give a damn about whether Labour or the Tories are in power.

    I think that's an accurate assessment of Galloway. To add to your list, I read in today's i that Galloway when comparing Starmer and Sunak has branded Starmer "the greater of two evils".
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    TimSTimS Posts: 9,711
    The Lib Dem tactics ahead of the election are interesting and rather under the radar, but worth sharing here.

    They seem to be based on 3 or 4 specific “local” issues:

    1. Farming, spearheaded by Tim Farron, focusing on the iniquities of the new post-Brexit subsidy regime

    https://x.com/timfarron/status/1764961679543026095?s=46

    Interestingly much less noise about fishing but this may simply be because they are micro targeting this only to the small number of fishing communities where they have targets. Tories notably noisier with anti-LD campaigning on fishing.

    2. Sewage and water companies. With the tacit support of celeb campaigner Feargal Sharkey. No one leader but most PPCs across the South East:

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1762934959910633606?s=46

    3. A balanced position on Gaza, led very effectively by Layla Moran but with Davey focusing on this too. Likely to help with campaigns in more urban and suburban seats. Really the only “national” issue being leant into.

    https://x.com/edwardjdavey/status/1763608030250164346?s=46

    4. Commuter belt issues including in particular local education funding and rail fares. Led by the blue wall candidates. Here’s a typical example

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1764718888120377704?s=46

    5. Relative silence on Brexit (hangover from 2019, though I think that’s a mistake), the economy, tax and inflation (recognising they’ll be drowned out by Labour and Tories).

    This is pretty much what you’d expect from a targeted marginals strategy focusing on the rural South West and Home Counties stockbroker belt.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281
    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,475

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    Nor does the Israeli government, and Netanyahu personally faces legal troubles once this is over.

    The trouble is, neither side wants peace. Both sides want victory.
  • Options

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    Nor does the Israeli government, and Netanyahu personally faces legal troubles once this is over.

    The trouble is, neither side wants peace. Both sides want victory.
    And neither side can have it as they define it...
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,711

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Fake news.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentina_national_cricket_team

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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,385

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457
    @Dura_Ace probably, but also (a) it does help growth a little bit by lowering the cost of employment - this is coupled with initiatives in childcare to try and get more people back in the workforce, and, (b) it aids party management inside Parliament, where most of the pressure is, and amongst the activist base.

    I don't expect it to move the polls at all. But it might help rally a few more DKs to the flag come the campaign.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,057
    "A UN team says there is "convincing information" that hostages held in Gaza have been subjected to sexual violence including rape and sexualised torture.

    There were grounds to suspect the abuse was still ongoing, the UN said."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68474899
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,762

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    TBF a rare progressive tax change from the Conservatives. Problem is, taxes need to go up just to keep the lights switched on. Energy e informed person knows this, but politically a place no-one wants to go to right now
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,901

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    A message might be good but people need to believe it and be receptive to the people relaying it.

    The problem for the Tories is they are bleeding from the right and the centre, with neither trusting them right now. So they have to try but it probably won't cut through.
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,900

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281
    May or Not May? Jonathan Ashworth bets on May, other senior Tories say not. I wonder whether the fallout of the "lets stop extremism" speech points to May or not?

    My initial instinct was not. They are going to broaden the definition of extremist to include violent agitators like George Galloway and Labour party voters. The government isn't yet clear about what new law this will involve.

    So the question is this: do the government want to get things like this and the "Rwanda is Safe" bill passed before the election, or campaign to get them passed if they get re-elected?

    Its just that if they say "these are the people's priorities, re-elect us to get them done" they will be in for a nasty shock as to what people's real priorities are...
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    He is. However, his first-class cricket record is hardly impressive, with one match, no runs and only 1 catch as wicketkeeper.

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/cricketers/geoff-hurst-14322
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,103
    edited March 5

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    But we're told people want to pay more taxes.

    Though freezing income tax allowances only leads to more income tax paid if pay increases.

    Now what will have an effect is people getting savings interest above the £1k tax free allowance and the tax having to be paid via PAYE.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070
    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,821
    edited March 5

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Yes. I was born there.
    My sympathies.

    Although they have a good Cineworld there.
    Tameside. Wasn't born there, but my family mostly were, lived there for 16 / 18 of my childhood years, and went to schools in Denton, Hyde and Ashton.

    Typical in its anonymity of the sort of cobbled together borough without a dominant central town and a thus a generic council name. Small East Manchester commuter and manufacturing towns, Stalybridge and Hyde was long the parliamentary constituency with the greatest proportion of manufacturing jobs in the UK, which might still be true, but never a single dominant employer, the cigarette factory, closed in the 90s, was the closest perhaps. Many mills, non-league football teams, a cobble of variable local claims to fame / infamy - Shipman, IKEA, Moors Murders, tornados, long and short pub names, fast deer, chemical accidents, "gollies", Davy Jones of The Monkees. Often WWC with a more mixed South Asian immigrant community than normal - as many Indian Hindus and Bengalis as British Pakistanis. What you'd expect really.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,093
    @RedfieldWilton
    The UK Government holds negative net approval ratings on ALL issues polled.

    UK Government Policy Approval Ratings (3 March):

    Coronavirus -6%
    Defence -12%
    Foreign policy -14%
    Education -20%
    Crime -27%
    Economy -27% 👈
    Housing -35%
    NHS -37% 👈
    Immigration -42% 👈


    The numbers are only moving in one direction...
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    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,900

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,031
    Cookie said:

    It's hard to describe the temper of a constituency - but Ashton under Lyne doesn't feel to me like the sort of place to be sympathetic to Gallowayism. It's not a pretty place, and the middle classes are fairly thin on the ground. But it doesn't have the feeling of despair that Rochdale does.

    Back in the early 60's there used to be be a big sign on the way in from the South...... Droylsden way. "Ashton under Lyne.... The Town with NO Headaches. Thanks to Ashton & Parsons Headache Powders"
    There were a couple of substantial pharmaceutical companies locally. All swallowed up now, I think.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,237

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    As plenty of the Scotland rugby team have a tartan from the high Veldt, don't rule out a South African...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Given the eye watering sums being paid on debt interest, I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about quickly reducing the deficit and starting to pay down the debt pile.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,237

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    Although we had the advantage of inventing them all (or at the very least first proper codifying of them).
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Meanwhile people in UK shouting and yelling for a ceasefire and blaming Starmer when there isn't one.

    There can only be a ceasefire if the parties at war agree to one.

  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 3,972

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,717
    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    No. It means that Hamas is decentralised in its operations, which would make sense, and that their ability to do anything has been significantly curtailed by Israeli military action, which is unsurprising. Of course, they could just be lying, it could be a negotiating tactic.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    Or Hamas doesn't want to say how many are still alive, for which they could have many reasons. Their claimed reason may or may not be true.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,031
    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    Or the bombardment has been so severe that Hamas' lines of communication have been damaged/destroyed. Gaza doesn't strike me as having been the best administered place in the world before the current 'war' started.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
  • Options
    FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 3,900
    edited March 5
    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    I doubt very much that there is a clear distinction between those Palestinians who are part of Hamas and those who aren't. There will be some enthusiastic members, some less so, some who are members because their job requires it, some who aren't members but generally support them, some who aren't members and dislike them and some who actively detest them.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    LOL.

    Only on PB.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,962
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,237

    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    No. It means that Hamas is decentralised in its operations, which would make sense, and that their ability to do anything has been significantly curtailed by Israeli military action, which is unsurprising. Of course, they could just be lying, it could be a negotiating tactic.
    Personally I think lying. As is the IDF a lot of the time.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,385

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    It's almost like Hamas don't exist the way some people can ignore their culpability and talk only of what Israel have done wrong.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,273

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    I reckon not only hockey, but basketball, volleyball and possibly others are bigger than rugby
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,717

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,385

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    When you put it like that England really is a sporting Goliath, and yet the self-image is of perennial underachievers.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,662

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    But we're told people want to pay more taxes.

    Though freezing income tax allowances only leads to more income tax paid if pay increases.

    Now what will have an effect is people getting savings interest above the £1k tax free allowance and the tax having to be paid via PAYE.
    Freezing allowances has the effect of increasing the percentage tax take. Net pay still goes up, but not by as much as it would have done if allowances had risen with inflation.

    It is a good tactic to raising taxes, as most folk don't bother to calculate their percentage deductions, and won't realise what is going on. And those with a pay freeze aren't directly hit at all (although they would have seen a rise in net pay if allowances had gone up).
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,587
    RobD said:

    Given the eye watering sums being paid on debt interest, I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about quickly reducing the deficit and starting to pay down the debt pile.

    Because we are borrowing £100 billion a year to balance the books growing the debt pile further; so the question is how many of the 30 million or so income tax payers would like to pay an extra £3300 income tax each year to balance the books before you start paying off the debt?

    Neither the political parties nor the voters wish to hear it put that way.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,385
    edited March 5
    RobD said:

    Given the eye watering sums being paid on debt interest, I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about quickly reducing the deficit and starting to pay down the debt pile.

    Not enough people want to swallow pain now in return for reward later, but it's precisely what I plan to do if I ever get a mortgage again.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,031

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    Is that Rugby as in Union or Union plus League? Although brought up on Union I now prefer League.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    But cricket is only played at a professional level in a very limited number of countries. The fact that it's number one in India skews all of those metrics, in the same way that the American sports would be well up there - possibly top on some measures? - despite being played seriously in a handful of places. Ice hockey and basketball are certainly plausible top 5 contenders.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    This current govt are so out of touch with the man on the clapham omnibus.

    Strikes me as total Whitehall capture. Utterly frit after the market scare last year, and so blindly accepting Treasury groupthink to the extent that they're unwilling to do anything unorthodox.

    The sooner this statist, tax grabbing incarnation of the Tory party is consigned to the waste paper bin, the better....
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961
    edited March 5

    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    I doubt very much that there is a clear distinction between those Palestinians who are part of Hamas and those who aren't. There will be some enthusiastic members, some less so, some who are members because their job requires it, some who aren't members but generally support them, some who aren't members and dislike them and some who actively detest them.
    Some polling was done during the brief December ceasefire in Gaza and the West Bank.

    https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514

    57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack
    Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes
    88% want Abbas to resign

    Probably the most interesting part was how poorly Hamas was polling in the West Bank.

    At the same time, 44% in the West Bank said they supported Hamas, up from just 12% in September. In Gaza, the militants enjoyed 42% support, up slightly from 38% three months ago.

    So in the West Bank support for Hamas has gone from half the Tories polling to roughly current Labour levels in UK terms in three months.

    As with Ukraine, Russia and I expect within Israel itself (Support for the national gov't not Netanyahu specifically there mind) never mind if you're right or wrong - wars tend to have a unifying effect on public opinion.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,662
    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    I reckon not only hockey, but basketball, volleyball and possibly others are bigger than rugby
    Handball is popular in many European countries.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,518
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting talk that Blue Origin will acquire ULA.
    https://spacenews.com/space-force-top-buyer-keenly-watching-ula-and-blue-origin-they-need-to-scale/

    The US government clearly wants an alternative provider to SpaceX, and they're going to keep funding contracts on that basis.
    Expensive in the short term, but a sensible policy, I think.

    That’s been nailed on for a couple of months.

    The alternative was a hedge fund or maybe a buyout by Lockheed.

    The thing that is sustaining ULA is partly the national security contracts, but more Amazon buying every spare future launch from a non SpaceX provider, for the Amazon Kuiper project. Amazon’s version of Starlink. This means 38 launchers for ULAs new rocket (Vulcan), booked before first flight.

    Amazon was supposed to be launching Kuiper on New Glen, the new rocket from Blue. But delays have pushed them into a corner. If they don’t start launching soon, Amazon risk losing their frequency allocations for Kuiper. Even if New Glen meets the new Net Q4 projected first launch, they have little time left to meet the deadline.

    So Amazon booked every other launcher, except SpaceX.

    The problem then was that most of these launches are very expensive and far off in the future. Amazon isn’t owned by Bezos - he is a big shareholder, but he owns Blue Origin entirely. So Amazon shareholders revolted (a bit) and some of the Kuiper satellites will now fly on SpaceX Falcon 9.

    Yes, their competitor with Starlink. But SpaceX has already launched satellite for pretty much every other competitor for Starlink - including OneWeb.

    All this means that Blue really, really wants launch capacity - with Russia out of the game and SpaceX surging ahead in volume to orbit, it’s only a matter of time before more Kuiper launches head to SpaceX. Bezos is trying to hold the Amazon shareholders to their original plan - to fill in with other providers and transition to Blue/New Glen.

    If he can’t hold the line, the massive launch requirement could partially move to SpaceX, crippling his plans for Blue.

    Buying ULA means that he gets a working rocket (backup for New Glen) and pulls a bunch of the Kuiper launches back to Blue.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,662

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,843

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,093
    @matt_dathan

    Yesterday saw a record number of migrants cross the Channel in small boats for 2024.

    401 in 7 boats.

    Average per boat - 57 - is also higher than normal.

    It takes the total for this year to 2,983, almost exactly the same number that had crossed by this time last year (2,953)
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,281
    Scott_xP said:

    @matt_dathan

    Yesterday saw a record number of migrants cross the Channel in small boats for 2024.

    401 in 7 boats.

    Average per boat - 57 - is also higher than normal.

    It takes the total for this year to 2,983, almost exactly the same number that had crossed by this time last year (2,953)

    "STOP THE BOATS"
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,927

    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    I reckon not only hockey, but basketball, volleyball and possibly others are bigger than rugby
    Handball is popular in many European countries.
    And Argentina.

    #HandOfGod #Cheats86
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,031

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
    Faster game, briefer interruptions, although the scrums are a nonsense!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,518

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The BBC features fives people regarding the Budget:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68448107

    They all want various tax cuts and more handouts.

    None of them suggest paying more tax.

    Yet we're continually told that people support higher taxes to pay for public services.

    A plot of real wages compared to other western European nations, CANZUK and the USA combined with high house prices (Masked for ages by tiny interest rates) with the now implied high mortgages and rents shows the problem. Also the FTSE and GBP vs EUR and USD long term don't paint a pretty picture.
    Housing costs are very age related.

    For those who have paid off their mortgage and have savings then higher interest rates are a good thing.

    As to wages they're dependent upon productivity increases if they're to increase in real terms.

    Now productivity is affected by government and employer decisions but workers still need to be looking at how they can improve their own skillsets.
    Nationally that's not going to be true. Americans seemingly unable to tie their own shoelaces yet earning six figures regularly call Dave Ramsey for money advice.
    Those callers have enormous student debt, huge credit card debt and multiple car loans.

    Its perfectly possible to have high earnings and still live beyond your means.

    Perhaps, especially so in the USA.
    It’s very common

    Friend who worked at Coutts had the job of getting rid of some the dross they acquired when ShatWest was using Coutts as a “premium account”.

    You had people who owned a couple of percent of a nice range of assets, a pile of maxed out credit cards and wanted another loan. To pay off the last one, some of the cards and keep the comedy going.

    Millionaires trying to live like billionaires.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,962
    Scott_xP said:

    @matt_dathan

    Yesterday saw a record number of migrants cross the Channel in small boats for 2024.

    401 in 7 boats.

    Average per boat - 57 - is also higher than normal.

    It takes the total for this year to 2,983, almost exactly the same number that had crossed by this time last year (2,953)

    “I’m sure you’ll be glad to hear there is an inexhaustible supply”
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,344
    edited March 5
    If Hunt is to take another 2p of employee NI then at least he is not handing more benefits to pensioners and is much fairer
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    kle4 said:

    O/T For a bit of fun I checked the Death Clock for Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

    I assumed the following BMI/fitness/diet:

    DT: 30/moderately active/terrible
    JB: 25/moderately active/good

    I put both down as non-smokers, never drink alcohol, optimistic outlook

    Death Clock says Trump is going to peg it in less than two years on 5th December 2025 aged 79 years, 5 months and 21 days.

    Biden however will die on 5th September 2043, aged 100 years, 9 months and 16 days old.

    Make of that what you will.

    https://www.death-clock.org

    I think Biden is more than moderately active for his age. He has work outs everyday iirc.
    If not for his face and especially voice I don't think we'd guess his age correctly.

    Beneath the bronzer I'd have no idea how old Trump is as his speeches are constructed like a toddler's, but when he is high energy its impressive if depressing.
    And the tottering.
  • Options
    CookieCookie Posts: 11,498

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
    Faster game, briefer interruptions, although the scrums are a nonsense!
    Weird sport, league.

    It’s as if someone looked at union and decided – I really like the bit where a big centre – Manu Tuilagi, say – crashes into his opposite number, makes a couple of yards and gets tackled. Let’s make a sport where we have that, over and over and over and over again.

    I mean, it’s fine. Compelling. But weird.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,518
    eek said:

    EXCLUSIVE:

    Jeremy Hunt will cut national insurance by 2 per cent in the Spring Budget tomorrow

    It will cost £10bn and be worth £450 for the average worker. He will sell it as £900 worth of tax cuts when combined with 2 per cent NI cut in Autumn Statement

    As per
    @SamCoatesSky
    legislation for NI cut will be brought forward next week, enabling it to come into effect in April

    Cuts to income tax were deemed too expensive and potentially inflationary

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1764961787101823232

    Shows how blooming useless they are as this will cost £9bn - and allowing those on £50,000+ to keep child benefit would be a better vote winner

    I was trying to work out the equivalence of 1% of income tax vs NI - income tax is paid by many more people.

    But the complexities of the system make that far from simple. Probably would need the Treasury model for this.

    The reason was, I was wondering about a gradual abolition of NI - x% off NI, y% on Income tax.

    Since y would be smaller than y - even a revenue neutral change wolf sound “tax cutting”

    I do wonder, going forward, if Hunts example won’t be followed by future tax cutters - just cut NI. The increases will be during the other part of the economic cycle, on Income tax.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,662

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
    To provide entertainment to the spectators. Unlike Union.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,031
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
    Faster game, briefer interruptions, although the scrums are a nonsense!
    Weird sport, league.

    It’s as if someone looked at union and decided – I really like the bit where a big centre – Manu Tuilagi, say – crashes into his opposite number, makes a couple of yards and gets tackled. Let’s make a sport where we have that, over and over and over and over again.

    I mean, it’s fine. Compelling. But weird.
    I really like the genuine Northern accents of the commentators.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,961

    eek said:

    EXCLUSIVE:

    Jeremy Hunt will cut national insurance by 2 per cent in the Spring Budget tomorrow

    It will cost £10bn and be worth £450 for the average worker. He will sell it as £900 worth of tax cuts when combined with 2 per cent NI cut in Autumn Statement

    As per
    @SamCoatesSky
    legislation for NI cut will be brought forward next week, enabling it to come into effect in April

    Cuts to income tax were deemed too expensive and potentially inflationary

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1764961787101823232

    Shows how blooming useless they are as this will cost £9bn - and allowing those on £50,000+ to keep child benefit would be a better vote winner

    I was trying to work out the equivalence of 1% of income tax vs NI - income tax is paid by many more people.

    But the complexities of the system make that far from simple. Probably would need the Treasury model for this.

    The reason was, I was wondering about a gradual abolition of NI - x% off NI, y% on Income tax.

    Since y would be smaller than y - even a revenue neutral change wolf sound “tax cutting”

    I do wonder, going forward, if Hunts example won’t be followed by future tax cutters - just cut NI. The increases will be during the other part of the economic cycle, on Income tax.
    Quite right too - NI is utterly invidious, taxing working people below pensionable age only. Doesn't apply to passive income and whatnot. I'll be grateful for the NI cut, even if noone else will !
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    boulay said:

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    And yet almost everyone is blaming Israel.
    There is plenty to blame Israel - and very specifically the Netanyahu government - for. But as I understand it they have agreed to the terms of the propose ceasefire. Hamas on the other hand have not.
    According to this, it's the Israelis who have pulled out of the talks:

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-ceasefire-talks-end-with-no-breakthrough-ramadan-deadline-looms-2024-03-05/
    Yes, that is the spin. But as the article notes, Israel has already approved a proposed ceasefire. Note that the hostages remains front and centre. Israel wants them released as a starter for 10 and Hamas refuses.
    According to the article, Israel is demanding a list of the hostages who are still alive before they will agree to a cease fire. Hamas says it is impossible to do this without a cease fire because the hostages are held by different groups scattered around Gaza. So Israel has walked away.
    Doesn’t the fact that Hamas cannot give a list of who is alive or not confirm that the attack was far wider based amongst the people of Gaza than just Hamas. Either Hamas is lying or there are many different groups who have support of the populace who took action against Israeli citizens.
    It's possibly as much to do with the complete breakdown of communications (and everything else) in Gaza. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but I don't think you can say with any certainty that it confirms anything beyond the fact that it's complete chaos there now.
    As Israel must know.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,093
    @dhothersall

    I hesitate to even dip a toe into royalty Twitter, the very maddest of all the Twitters, but can anyone explain why we're suddenly calling the Princess of Wales "Kate Middleton"?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting talk that Blue Origin will acquire ULA.
    https://spacenews.com/space-force-top-buyer-keenly-watching-ula-and-blue-origin-they-need-to-scale/

    The US government clearly wants an alternative provider to SpaceX, and they're going to keep funding contracts on that basis.
    Expensive in the short term, but a sensible policy, I think.

    That’s been nailed on for a couple of months.

    The alternative was a hedge fund or maybe a buyout by Lockheed.

    The thing that is sustaining ULA is partly the national security contracts, but more Amazon buying every spare future launch from a non SpaceX provider, for the Amazon Kuiper project. Amazon’s version of Starlink. This means 38 launchers for ULAs new rocket (Vulcan), booked before first flight.

    Amazon was supposed to be launching Kuiper on New Glen, the new rocket from Blue. But delays have pushed them into a corner. If they don’t start launching soon, Amazon risk losing their frequency allocations for Kuiper. Even if New Glen meets the new Net Q4 projected first launch, they have little time left to meet the deadline.

    So Amazon booked every other launcher, except SpaceX.

    The problem then was that most of these launches are very expensive and far off in the future. Amazon isn’t owned by Bezos - he is a big shareholder, but he owns Blue Origin entirely. So Amazon shareholders revolted (a bit) and some of the Kuiper satellites will now fly on SpaceX Falcon 9.

    Yes, their competitor with Starlink. But SpaceX has already launched satellite for pretty much every other competitor for Starlink - including OneWeb.

    All this means that Blue really, really wants launch capacity - with Russia out of the game and SpaceX surging ahead in volume to orbit, it’s only a matter of time before more Kuiper launches head to SpaceX. Bezos is trying to hold the Amazon shareholders to their original plan - to fill in with other providers and transition to Blue/New Glen.

    If he can’t hold the line, the massive launch requirement could partially move to SpaceX, crippling his plans for Blue.

    Buying ULA means that he gets a working rocket (backup for New Glen) and pulls a bunch of the Kuiper launches back to Blue.
    It would guarantee Blue Origin's future, as the government wouldn't then let them fail (for financial reasons, at least). The US has a big strategic interest in having a viable domestic SpaceX competitor.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,518

    If Hunt is to take another 2p of employee NI then at least he is not handing more benefits to pensioners and is much fairer

    Thinking about it - in the age of the return of actual inflation, fiscal drag is creating serious rises in income tax each year.

    You could, long term, use that to abolish NI.
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 908

    eek said:

    EXCLUSIVE:

    Jeremy Hunt will cut national insurance by 2 per cent in the Spring Budget tomorrow

    It will cost £10bn and be worth £450 for the average worker. He will sell it as £900 worth of tax cuts when combined with 2 per cent NI cut in Autumn Statement

    As per
    @SamCoatesSky
    legislation for NI cut will be brought forward next week, enabling it to come into effect in April

    Cuts to income tax were deemed too expensive and potentially inflationary

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1764961787101823232

    Shows how blooming useless they are as this will cost £9bn - and allowing those on £50,000+ to keep child benefit would be a better vote winner

    I was trying to work out the equivalence of 1% of income tax vs NI - income tax is paid by many more people.

    But the complexities of the system make that far from simple. Probably would need the Treasury model for this.

    The reason was, I was wondering about a gradual abolition of NI - x% off NI, y% on Income tax.

    Since y would be smaller than y - even a revenue neutral change wolf sound “tax cutting”

    I do wonder, going forward, if Hunts example won’t be followed by future tax cutters - just cut NI. The increases will be during the other part of the economic cycle, on Income tax.
    If someone earning £40,000 a year gets a 5% pay increase their tax bill will go up by £600 a year -the tax and NI on the increase.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,070
    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    I reckon not only hockey, but basketball, volleyball and possibly others are bigger than rugby
    LOL.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,475
    Scott_xP said:

    @dhothersall

    I hesitate to even dip a toe into royalty Twitter, the very maddest of all the Twitters, but can anyone explain why we're suddenly calling the Princess of Wales "Kate Middleton"?

    Because that is her name? A cursory glance at TwiX finds: The PoW is back in the news for being snapped in a car for the first time since her operation. There has been a heated debate as to whether it was really Kate or Pippa Middleton.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,518
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting talk that Blue Origin will acquire ULA.
    https://spacenews.com/space-force-top-buyer-keenly-watching-ula-and-blue-origin-they-need-to-scale/

    The US government clearly wants an alternative provider to SpaceX, and they're going to keep funding contracts on that basis.
    Expensive in the short term, but a sensible policy, I think.

    That’s been nailed on for a couple of months.

    The alternative was a hedge fund or maybe a buyout by Lockheed.

    The thing that is sustaining ULA is partly the national security contracts, but more Amazon buying every spare future launch from a non SpaceX provider, for the Amazon Kuiper project. Amazon’s version of Starlink. This means 38 launchers for ULAs new rocket (Vulcan), booked before first flight.

    Amazon was supposed to be launching Kuiper on New Glen, the new rocket from Blue. But delays have pushed them into a corner. If they don’t start launching soon, Amazon risk losing their frequency allocations for Kuiper. Even if New Glen meets the new Net Q4 projected first launch, they have little time left to meet the deadline.

    So Amazon booked every other launcher, except SpaceX.

    The problem then was that most of these launches are very expensive and far off in the future. Amazon isn’t owned by Bezos - he is a big shareholder, but he owns Blue Origin entirely. So Amazon shareholders revolted (a bit) and some of the Kuiper satellites will now fly on SpaceX Falcon 9.

    Yes, their competitor with Starlink. But SpaceX has already launched satellite for pretty much every other competitor for Starlink - including OneWeb.

    All this means that Blue really, really wants launch capacity - with Russia out of the game and SpaceX surging ahead in volume to orbit, it’s only a matter of time before more Kuiper launches head to SpaceX. Bezos is trying to hold the Amazon shareholders to their original plan - to fill in with other providers and transition to Blue/New Glen.

    If he can’t hold the line, the massive launch requirement could partially move to SpaceX, crippling his plans for Blue.

    Buying ULA means that he gets a working rocket (backup for New Glen) and pulls a bunch of the Kuiper launches back to Blue.
    It would guarantee Blue Origin's future, as the government wouldn't then let them fail (for financial reasons, at least). The US has a big strategic interest in having a viable domestic SpaceX competitor.
    Blue is funded, literally, by Bezos giving them money. They are beginning to get some paying contracts, but nothing like the tidal wave of money that SpaceX is pulling in.

    The problem for the US government in all this is that ULA is proven as it is. Blue has had very substantial management issues - which they seem to have overcome. The concern would be that Blue would absorb/sell off/eventually shut down their aquisition.

    Ideal would have been an internal ULA management buyout, leading to an independent company led by Tory Bruno. But that would not be possible, sadly.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,475

    If Hunt is to take another 2p of employee NI then at least he is not handing more benefits to pensioners and is much fairer

    Thinking about it - in the age of the return of actual inflation, fiscal drag is creating serious rises in income tax each year.

    You could, long term, use that to abolish NI.
    Funny thing is, NI used to be regarded as a stealth tax, which is why NI rose as income tax fell. Hunt seems to be taking the opposite view.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Filming the ayahuasca pre-ceremony



    The ayahuasca ceremony




    That fucking fire kept zigzagging around the whole chamber, like it was alive. Also my hands became tungsten with emerald sparkles and I decided on a new motto in life: “that looks weird. Don’t look at it”

    A possible alternative would be “don’t take weird drugs with uncertain effects “. Personally, I’m going with that.
    But I had profound insights! Like:

    “Why am I yawning constantly”

    “Does this moth REALLY like me”

    “Make the Spanish speaking centaur go away”

    And one thought was actually useful:

    Everything is funny. Everything. Even death (however sad or tragic). Maybe death especially. Because it makes a mockery of us all, and all our vanities and projects and reveries. Death is literally laughable
    I am amazed that you have come to this revelation so late, I’d have put you down as a bathos-ist

    The corollary I think is that tragedy informs comedy, looming over your chortling shoulders and whispering ‘death’ into your ear..
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,762
    Could the obesity drugs be part of the answer to a "more efficient" NHS ?

    Semaglutide 1.0 mg demonstrates 24% reduction in the risk of kidney disease-related events in people with type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease in the FLOW trial
    https://twitter.com/BullBearBres/status/1764958804108558749

    Their impact on the chronic disease burden is, potentially, very large.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,385

    RobD said:

    Given the eye watering sums being paid on debt interest, I’m surprised there isn’t more discussion about quickly reducing the deficit and starting to pay down the debt pile.

    Not enough people want to swallow pain now in return for reward later, but it's precisely what I plan to do if I ever get a mortgage again.
    Actually, thinking a bit more about this, I'm probably being a bit unfair.

    Plenty of people are willing to accept short term pain in return for reward later, but when you do this on an individual level the link between short term pain for long term gain is more obvious. When it comes to tax and spend people suspect they'll be the patsy who will endure indefinite pain for someone else's gain.

    It's why Osborne's "we're all in it together" was so genius, even though the reality sadly fell short of the slogan.

    Perhaps I've missed it, but Starmer and Labour have failed to create any similar message to define what their government will be for. They need something, or they will struggle to keep public support.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,232
    Scott_xP said:

    @dhothersall

    I hesitate to even dip a toe into royalty Twitter, the very maddest of all the Twitters, but can anyone explain why we're suddenly calling the Princess of Wales "Kate Middleton"?

    Protocol when the Lizard People shed their old skin that they return to their commoner name for a short period.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,209
    The only comment I would make on a cut to NI rather than income tax or Indeed an increase in the personal allowance is:

    Those benefiting from the NI cut are typically not supporting CON and are unlikely to be swayed by the cut

    Those reliant on pensions who will receive nothing and who have typically be more pro CON may be *ed off and may be less inclined to support CON going forward
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,877

    Scott_xP said:

    @dhothersall

    I hesitate to even dip a toe into royalty Twitter, the very maddest of all the Twitters, but can anyone explain why we're suddenly calling the Princess of Wales "Kate Middleton"?

    Because that is her name? A cursory glance at TwiX finds: The PoW is back in the news for being snapped in a car for the first time since her operation. There has been a heated debate as to whether it was really Kate or Pippa Middleton.
    Surely the demotic version of her current name is Mrs K. Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, or is it Mountbatten-Windsor? I can never keep up.
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    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,714
    Question for the PB brains trust:

    We were discussing a possible May election yesterday, along with the usual other autumn or January 2025 dates. I know we have to have 25 working days clear, so am I not right in thinking that if Sunak is going to go with 2nd May, he would have to call the election no later than Friday 22nd March anyway (leaving 25 working days to 2nd May)?

    So we'll know in less than three weeks whether he intends to go in May or not?

    And my opinion, if he doesn't, is that he'll then hang on till at least October. I don't see a June, July or September election happening.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271

    2p off National Insurance, so they can claim they have "cut taxes" by £900 per worker? But people will look at their pay packets and see taxes have gone up. That they have less money in their pockets than they did before these "tax cuts". And that their bills have gone up.

    Is that it? That's the strategy? They really do need to cut and run for May when they will get trounced. But that would be better than going on and getting demolished.

    Whats the point when my water bill is up by 12% (fuck you OFWAT and Northumbria Water) and my council tax by the full whack, my car insurance up by 30% etc etc.

    Not all down to the govt but I hardly feel wealthier.
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    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,843

    kamski said:

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    England is also the only country to play all three seriously. Argentina were once a good cricket nation, comparable to NZ at the time but not since WW2, Australia are becoming stronger at football but it's relatively recent, South Africa too haven't delivered at football since the fall of apartheid, despite the potential. Beyond that, no-one.

    Which (team) sports are 'biggest' is highly contestable as there are so many ways to argue it. Football is undoubtedly first but beyond that it becomes much harder; there's not really any other genuinely global team sport.
    Well it’s not that hard to argue. Global spectators, viewerships, revenues. On any sensible metric, cricket is easily number two. You could argue the toss about rugby in third. But if not rugby then what? Hockey? LOL.

    (Okay NFL, but we are discussing international team sports here)
    I reckon not only hockey, but basketball, volleyball and possibly others are bigger than rugby
    Handball is popular in many European countries.
    I have often thought hockey goalkeepers have a death wish, but handball goalies are next level crazy.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,764

    Good morning

    Sky reporting Gaza ceasefire talks have broken down

    When will this ever end ?

    Hamas don't want a ceasefire shock.
    Nor does the Israeli government, and Netanyahu personally faces legal troubles once this is over.

    The trouble is, neither side wants peace. Both sides want victory.
    Good.

    We should support Israel to achieve victory.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271
    edited March 5
    Nigelb said:

    Could the obesity drugs be part of the answer to a "more efficient" NHS ?

    Semaglutide 1.0 mg demonstrates 24% reduction in the risk of kidney disease-related events in people with type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease in the FLOW trial
    https://twitter.com/BullBearBres/status/1764958804108558749

    Their impact on the chronic disease burden is, potentially, very large.

    Sadly the impact on various grifters, snake oil salesmen, authors of diet books and companies that make money from "managing" obesity will resist these drugs with all their might.

    They have a slot machine, currently, that continues to pay out. They won't want it to stop.

    I am expecting a great deal of push back on obesity drugs.
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271

    TimS said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    Is Ashton under Lyne and the borough of Tameside generally famous for anything ?

    Most other Lancashire towns have noted sports teams, food connections or historical events.

    Two World Cup winning footballers were born in Ashton. One is Geoff Hurst - who is the other?


    (Clue - it’s not Jimmy Armfield who was born in nearby Denton).
    Is Geoff Hurst the only World Cup winning footballer to have played first class cricket?

    I vaguely recall a letter to The Times when publicity-shy Tony Blair knighted Hurst, complaining this devalued the Honours system as from now on, every Englishman who scored a hat-trick in a World Cup final would expect a knighthood.
    You may be about to tell me I'm wrong, but given England is the only cricket playing nation to have won the football World Cup, and they've only done so once, there is an extremely limited list of people who might realistically have done the double.
    Interesting point. Almost zero overlap. Whereas several serious rugby playing nations have won: France, Italy, Argentina, England, arguably Uruguay.
    England is the only nation to have won the football, cricket and rugby world cups I believe. Which is quite a distinction when you think about it: they are the three biggest team sports in the world I think (and by
    some distance).
    I made this point on PB once and was promptly told that basketball is the most popular team sport on earth by many spare magnitudes.
    Various links online give different answers, but there seems to be consensus on (1) football, (2) cricket. These are then probably followed by basketball, field hockey and volleyball, but with less consensus about the order among those. Rugby is in the top 10, but doesn't make top 5.
    If all those daft Union types would see the error of their ways and switch to League, then a unified rugby would shoot up the rankings.
    Since Union is now professional too, what's the point of League?
    Long term grievance farming.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,764

    The only comment I would make on a cut to NI rather than income tax or Indeed an increase in the personal allowance is:

    Those benefiting from the NI cut are typically not supporting CON and are unlikely to be swayed by the cut

    Those reliant on pensions who will receive nothing and who have typically be more pro CON may be *ed off and may be less inclined to support CON going forward

    Cutting NI is the right thing to do.

    So is abolishing it.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,344
    edited March 5

    The only comment I would make on a cut to NI rather than income tax or Indeed an increase in the personal allowance is:

    Those benefiting from the NI cut are typically not supporting CON and are unlikely to be swayed by the cut

    Those reliant on pensions who will receive nothing and who have typically be more pro CON may be *ed off and may be less inclined to support CON going forward

    Pensions are to rise by 8.5% in April, which on top of 10.1% rise last year, is more than generous and a lot more than most earning a wage will have received, even with the 4p NI reduction (total NI reduction this year)
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,271
    Rochdale Pioneers may be right, it may very well be the last date possible. Late Jan 25.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,134

    mwadams said:

    Ah, now I have the "likes" bug too on my elitebook.

    Likewise. It looks like a tooltip containing the word "Like" is obliterating the previous hover behaviour.
    The question is whether @rcs1000 changed this behaviour for some reason, possibly to hide his own past likes, or (more likely) whether the good people at Vanilla and/or Wordpress blindsided him and us quite arbitrarily.
    Since I only access PB on my phone I've never had any idea who was liking my posts, which I'm glad of, I think that way madness lies. I'll just continue to assume that OLB superfans like Leon, Topping and Casino are the main ones giving the love for my pearls of wisdom.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,764
    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    EXCLUSIVE:

    Jeremy Hunt will cut national insurance by 2 per cent in the Spring Budget tomorrow

    It will cost £10bn and be worth £450 for the average worker. He will sell it as £900 worth of tax cuts when combined with 2 per cent NI cut in Autumn Statement

    As per
    @SamCoatesSky
    legislation for NI cut will be brought forward next week, enabling it to come into effect in April

    Cuts to income tax were deemed too expensive and potentially inflationary

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1764961787101823232

    Shows how blooming useless they are as this will cost £9bn - and allowing those on £50,000+ to keep child benefit would be a better vote winner

    I was trying to work out the equivalence of 1% of income tax vs NI - income tax is paid by many more people.

    But the complexities of the system make that far from simple. Probably would need the Treasury model for this.

    The reason was, I was wondering about a gradual abolition of NI - x% off NI, y% on Income tax.

    Since y would be smaller than y - even a revenue neutral change wolf sound “tax cutting”

    I do wonder, going forward, if Hunts example won’t be followed by future tax cutters - just cut NI. The increases will be during the other part of the economic cycle, on Income tax.
    Quite right too - NI is utterly invidious, taxing working people below pensionable age only. Doesn't apply to passive income and whatnot. I'll be grateful for the NI cut, even if noone else will !
    Me too.

    It's the right thing to do. A rare right thing from this Government. Well done Hunt if it's done.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,587

    Question for the PB brains trust:

    We were discussing a possible May election yesterday, along with the usual other autumn or January 2025 dates. I know we have to have 25 working days clear, so am I not right in thinking that if Sunak is going to go with 2nd May, he would have to call the election no later than Friday 22nd March anyway (leaving 25 working days to 2nd May)?

    So we'll know in less than three weeks whether he intends to go in May or not?

    And my opinion, if he doesn't, is that he'll then hang on till at least October. I don't see a June, July or September election happening.

    I make it a couple of days later but Yes, we know soon if it's May 2nd.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,344

    The only comment I would make on a cut to NI rather than income tax or Indeed an increase in the personal allowance is:

    Those benefiting from the NI cut are typically not supporting CON and are unlikely to be swayed by the cut

    Those reliant on pensions who will receive nothing and who have typically be more pro CON may be *ed off and may be less inclined to support CON going forward

    Cutting NI is the right thing to do.

    So is abolishing it.
    It could be merged with income tax within a few years
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,237
    Nigelb said:

    Could the obesity drugs be part of the answer to a "more efficient" NHS ?

    Semaglutide 1.0 mg demonstrates 24% reduction in the risk of kidney disease-related events in people with type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease in the FLOW trial
    https://twitter.com/BullBearBres/status/1764958804108558749

    Their impact on the chronic disease burden is, potentially, very large.

    Not great data for prolonged use, sadly. Good for a short term fix.
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    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 18,764

    The only comment I would make on a cut to NI rather than income tax or Indeed an increase in the personal allowance is:

    Those benefiting from the NI cut are typically not supporting CON and are unlikely to be swayed by the cut

    Those reliant on pensions who will receive nothing and who have typically be more pro CON may be *ed off and may be less inclined to support CON going forward

    Cutting NI is the right thing to do.

    So is abolishing it.
    It could be merged with income tax within a few years
    I'd vote for any party that proposed that.

    Within reason.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,877
    edited March 5
    TimS said:

    The Lib Dem tactics ahead of the election are interesting and rather under the radar, but worth sharing here.

    They seem to be based on 3 or 4 specific “local” issues:

    1. Farming, spearheaded by Tim Farron, focusing on the iniquities of the new post-Brexit subsidy regime

    https://x.com/timfarron/status/1764961679543026095?s=46

    Interestingly much less noise about fishing but this may simply be because they are micro targeting this only to the small number of fishing communities where they have targets. Tories notably noisier with anti-LD campaigning on fishing.

    2. Sewage and water companies. With the tacit support of celeb campaigner Feargal Sharkey. No one leader but most PPCs across the South East:

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1762934959910633606?s=46

    3. A balanced position on Gaza, led very effectively by Layla Moran but with Davey focusing on this too. Likely to help with campaigns in more urban and suburban seats. Really the only “national” issue being leant into.

    https://x.com/edwardjdavey/status/1763608030250164346?s=46

    4. Commuter belt issues including in particular local education funding and rail fares. Led by the blue wall candidates. Here’s a typical example

    https://x.com/libdems/status/1764718888120377704?s=46

    5. Relative silence on Brexit (hangover from 2019, though I think that’s a mistake), the economy, tax and inflation (recognising they’ll be drowned out by Labour and Tories).

    This is pretty much what you’d expect from a targeted marginals strategy focusing on the rural South West and Home Counties stockbroker belt.

    On farming - see lower part of this, Tory farming vote being washed away quicker than an Isle of Wight landslip complex. And who else are they going to vote for, in most areas?

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/feb/23/farms-flooding-rainfall-winter-nfu-conference
This discussion has been closed.