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Following Hoylegate – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,249
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Ominous for wales

    Wales blowing (it)?
    Don’t blubber
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,785
    Politics is fast. We've moved from Kemi Badenoch lying to Speaker screwing the SNP and now to 30p Islamophobia in the space of a week. No doubt there'll be something else by Monday!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Ominous for wales

    Wales blowing (it)?
    Don’t blubber
    I’m here to the fin-ish.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,141
    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."
  • Options
    Good afternoon

    The Lee Anderson suspended
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    As ever, far too late.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,971
    edited February 24
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    It shouldn't be hard to do these things but for weak leaders it really is - the Anderson crowd already don't like Rishi and are probably lining up complaints about him 'giving in' to Labour right now.

    Anderson himself will add it to his brand of trying-too-hard 'tell it as it is' phoneyness.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762
    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,404
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    The fact that you've had to literally make up something that you say is 'typical speech you commonly hear' tends to confirm that you are full of shit.
    Can’t we give the site twat a day off?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762

    Good afternoon

    The Lee Anderson suspended

    A good afternoon indeed!
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,872

    Good afternoon

    The Lee Anderson suspended

    Good.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,971

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    There were so many Tory MPs in the height of UKIP days who clearly would rather have been UKIP, but did not have the balls to do it (really I'm surprised two ended up doing so). With the Tories set to be wiped out (or just much diminished) maybe a few more will actually go through with it.

    Anderson, for all he is a blowhard with no achievements to his name, would be a better catch than Bridgen was for Reclaim. That loony, whingey soul.
  • Options
    Sky news reporter just said that that 'labour took the opportunity to stick the knife into Ashworth'

    What a choice of words

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,404

    TimS said:

    Those seem like massive numbers.

    No-one I knew mentioned it and even I didn't care.

    My experience too. Odd
    Pretty girl comes up you in the street

    “Have you been following this really important thing that has happened recently?”

    Most men will reply yes…
    It was an online survey, which I did myself. I only said I was following it fairly closely, because YouGov is probably wary of panel members too much into politics.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,971
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    The fact that you've had to literally make up something that you say is 'typical speech you commonly hear' tends to confirm that you are full of shit.
    Can’t we give the site twat a day off?
    I take many days off.
  • Options

    Good afternoon

    The Lee Anderson suspended

    A good afternoon indeed!
    The correct thing to do and if he joins Reform he takes it with him
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,404
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    The fact that you've had to literally make up something that you say is 'typical speech you commonly hear' tends to confirm that you are full of shit.
    Can’t we give the site twat a day off?
    I take many days off.
    Doubtless why you haven’t yet got the job.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Ominous for wales

    Wales blowing (it)?
    Wales getting a right sperming
    It’s a killer.
    This serves no porpoise.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,971

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Ominous for wales

    Wales blowing (it)?
    Wales getting a right sperming
    It’s a killer.
    This serves no porpoise.
    It feels pretty Orca-strated at this point.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,888

    I've just watched a rather good film if you're into the intersection between technology, flight, and industrial politics.

    Black Box is a French film about an audio analyst working for an accident investigation team, who starts to realise his initial conclusion about the cause of a crash might have been incorrect.

    It is a really, really good taut thriller

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/black_box_2021

    It's available on iPlayer:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001sftz/black-box

    Thanks, sounds interesting.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,598
    edited February 24
    edit
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    The fact that you've had to literally make up something that you say is 'typical speech you commonly hear' tends to confirm that you are full of shit.
    Can’t we give the site twat a day off?
    Haven’t actually seen BJO yet today.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, PB, quick question, linked to issues with British Gas:

    Is there a legal term for issuing a false bill, knowing it is a false bill, with the intention of getting payment for goods not delivered as a result?

    If it is done with criminal intent then it is uttering a false document, which is a category of fraud. But if it is just complete incompetence then there is no criminal intent and being British Gas may give them a fairly unimpeachable defence in that respect.
    They've now done it six times across four different accounts.

    Every single time I try to close an account, they put the wrong figure on the final bill.

    And not trivially, either. The errors if I had not challenged them total many thousands (as in, over three). They still haven't admitted one of them while doubling down on it. (Edit - and they know full well that bill is false.)

    I am no longer willing to accept incompetence as a defence. If they are this incompetent as far as I am concerned they are still guilty of fraud.

    Thanks for the tip.

    NPower took me to court over a claimed £50k energy bill.

    They presented false evidence to the court (made up - they claimed it was data from the automatic link to the meter without realising the meter wasn’t connected to the telephone line).

    Took the judge 30 mins to throw the case out

    Still cost me £6k in costs I’m not getting back
  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,016

    Roger said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    In response to FPT comment, Labour calling for Anderson to lose the whip:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68388579

    If being Islamaphobic and racist was a sackable offence we'd lose the leader of the opposition. if we carried it on to PB.Com we'd lose some of our most prominent posters.

    It struck me yesterday that denying Ms Begum the right to return because she chose to join a crackpot army on an immoral mission in a foreign land sounded quite wise if we could legally get away with it.

    But what about those British adventurers who have joined the IDF? On their return do they lose their citizenship and if not why not? Suppose Israel are found guilty of genocide. Will that tip the balance?

    We live in a very partial country at the moment and it's one of the reasons so many are so pissed off with the way things
    are.

    Equating a terrorist organisation with the organised army of an independent state.

    Charming

    Surely a state is just a terrorist organisation with a territory.

    Terrorism is sometimes right.
  • Options

    Biden will most likely never satisfy those most horrified by his Middle East policies, but if he doesn’t do more to try, he’s in danger of losing Michigan in November, which would almost certainly cost him the election. The state has the country’s largest percentage of Arab American voters, and within that community — as well as among many non-Arab Muslims, young people and progressives — there’s a deep sense of betrayal and fury at Biden

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/23/opinion/gaza-biden-michigan.html

    Watch this to see the problems the GOP are having in Michigan:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YSqH0eKKpQ

    And for a longer term prediction then how about most American Jews will be voting for the GOP within twenty years.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,888
    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,127

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,888
    "British Airways was once so confident of its reputation, it used ‘the world’s favourite airline’ in its advertising campaigns.

    But the UK’s flag-carrier has been voted among the worst airlines for both long and short haul travel.

    Consumer champion Which? surveyed travellers’ experiences of flying in the past year and analysed results from over 10,000 flights.

    Once among the country’s leading airlines, BA came in the bottom five for short haul flights - below a number of low-cost carriers including easyJet, and in the bottom three for long haul."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-13116963/best-worst-short-haul-airlines-BA.html
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    That would spook the horses.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, PB, quick question, linked to issues with British Gas:

    Is there a legal term for issuing a false bill, knowing it is a false bill, with the intention of getting payment for goods not delivered as a result?

    If it is done with criminal intent then it is uttering a false document, which is a category of fraud. But if it is just complete incompetence then there is no criminal intent and being British Gas may give them a fairly unimpeachable defence in that respect.
    They've now done it six times across four different accounts.

    Every single time I try to close an account, they put the wrong figure on the final bill.

    And not trivially, either. The errors if I had not challenged them total many thousands (as in, over three). They still haven't admitted one of them while doubling down on it. (Edit - and they know full well that bill is false.)

    I am no longer willing to accept incompetence as a defence. If they are this incompetent as far as I am concerned they are still guilty of fraud.

    Thanks for the tip.

    NPower took me to court over a claimed £50k energy bill.

    They presented false evidence to the court (made up - they claimed it was data from the automatic link to the meter without realising the meter wasn’t connected to the telephone line).

    Took the judge 30 mins to throw the case out

    Still cost me £6k in costs I’m not getting back
    Could you not claim the costs back?
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,453
    Cmon wales!
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    .
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    OK.

    Name three of these alleged Herman Berlins.

    Not the lefty defences- but the incidents where the allegations were made.
    I've already given one. Paul Marshall the owner of GB News

    He has been accused by the Left (in the form of Hope not Hate) of using an anoymous Twitter account to retweet some stridently anti-immigrant rhetoric (but nothing illegal, as far as I can see)

    They couldn't even find original tweets, just retweets. That's it. And on this basis (infinitely flimsier than all the years of stuff I've presented re Khan) they say he is not fit to own British media, he should be hounded out of public life, etc etc


    "Sir Paul Marshall, GB News co-owner and would-be Telegraph owner, has been ‘liking’ and spreading some pretty vile things on
    @x
    This casts a different light on his desire to be a mini-Murdoch. My column."

    https://x.com/arusbridger/status/1761304176573735106?s=20
    Not really the same, though, is it?

    Much more recent and "didn't write it, just passed it on" isn't much of a defence.

    Full marks for the chaff you're throwing, but Anderson dropped a bollock big time yesterday.
    As I have said, I haven't referenced Anderson once

    FWIW I will repeat my personal opinion given below. Do I think Khan is an Islamist? No, my firm guess is that he isn't. But he does have a long history of seriously dodgy associations and I can easily see why you could conclude differently. And I really do despise the constant attempt to shut down these debates with the word "Islamophobia": this technique is as fraudulent as it is tiresome

    My main objection to Khan is much more pragmatic: he is a rubbish mayor. Boring, inert and clueless. A great city like London needs and deserves better - a dash of charisma and pzazz. Is that too much to ask?

    Also there should be term limits on the mayoralty. Two is enough for anyone
    Not really sure why someone would want ot be mayor more than twice to be honest. It's not as powerful a position as most American mayors I expect, and whilst its high profile it's the end of the road career wise unless you can parlay it into a rejuvenated parliamentary career, and after 12 years that would be trickier.
    Haven't 50% of past London mayors gone on to be PM? That doesn't seem like "end of the road career wise".
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,888
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    AlsoLei said:

    guybrush said:

    Surprise surprise, there's a mayoral election on the way so the bs accusations of Islamism start getting thrown by the Conservatives. Shame they didn't bother putting up a non loon candidate. I'm not exactly Kahn's biggest fan, but will hold my nose this time to stick it to the tories.

    I've never voted Labour in my life, but will be voting for Sadiq this time round. It would be crazy to do otherwise, given the new voting system that was imposed out of the blue by the Tories.
    I might vote Labour if the election was going to be close... but i suspect it won't be remotely close!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762
    Leon said:

    Cmon wales!

    Magic touch
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    It shouldn't be hard to do these things but for weak leaders it really is - the Anderson crowd already don't like Rishi and are probably lining up complaints about him 'giving in' to Labour right now.

    Anderson himself will add it to his brand of trying-too-hard 'tell it as it is' phoneyness.
    try saying that something is run by white men and not only do you not get suspended you get promoted
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,126
    edited February 24
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

    Inevitable and Sunak and the Chief Whip had no choice but lots of Reform voters likely agree with Anderson so will be difficult to get them back
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    It shouldn't be hard to do these things but for weak leaders it really is - the Anderson crowd already don't like Rishi and are probably lining up complaints about him 'giving in' to Labour right now.

    Anderson himself will add it to his brand of trying-too-hard 'tell it as it is' phoneyness.
    try saying that something is run by white men and not only do you not get suspended you get promoted
    Yep, telling the truth doesn't get you suspended, whereas spouting libellous bullshit does.

    Fancy that.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,453
    Ireland looking quite relentless
  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422

    .

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    OK.

    Name three of these alleged Herman Berlins.

    Not the lefty defences- but the incidents where the allegations were made.
    I've already given one. Paul Marshall the owner of GB News

    He has been accused by the Left (in the form of Hope not Hate) of using an anoymous Twitter account to retweet some stridently anti-immigrant rhetoric (but nothing illegal, as far as I can see)

    They couldn't even find original tweets, just retweets. That's it. And on this basis (infinitely flimsier than all the years of stuff I've presented re Khan) they say he is not fit to own British media, he should be hounded out of public life, etc etc


    "Sir Paul Marshall, GB News co-owner and would-be Telegraph owner, has been ‘liking’ and spreading some pretty vile things on
    @x
    This casts a different light on his desire to be a mini-Murdoch. My column."

    https://x.com/arusbridger/status/1761304176573735106?s=20
    Not really the same, though, is it?

    Much more recent and "didn't write it, just passed it on" isn't much of a defence.

    Full marks for the chaff you're throwing, but Anderson dropped a bollock big time yesterday.
    As I have said, I haven't referenced Anderson once

    FWIW I will repeat my personal opinion given below. Do I think Khan is an Islamist? No, my firm guess is that he isn't. But he does have a long history of seriously dodgy associations and I can easily see why you could conclude differently. And I really do despise the constant attempt to shut down these debates with the word "Islamophobia": this technique is as fraudulent as it is tiresome

    My main objection to Khan is much more pragmatic: he is a rubbish mayor. Boring, inert and clueless. A great city like London needs and deserves better - a dash of charisma and pzazz. Is that too much to ask?

    Also there should be term limits on the mayoralty. Two is enough for anyone
    Not really sure why someone would want ot be mayor more than twice to be honest. It's not as powerful a position as most American mayors I expect, and whilst its high profile it's the end of the road career wise unless you can parlay it into a rejuvenated parliamentary career, and after 12 years that would be trickier.
    Haven't 50% of past London mayors gone on to be PM? That doesn't seem like "end of the road career wise".
    khan is no Boris though!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,762
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

    Inevitable and Sunak and the Chief Whip had no choice but lots of Reform voters likely agree with Anderson so will be difficult to get them back
    Yep, but to get them back you'd alienate half the remaining 25% or so who remain loyal to the Tories. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,299
    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    Safe Tory seat for Farage and Leader by the GE.

    A Farage-Trump special relationship. We could be the 51st State by Christmas.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,127

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    Safe Tory seat for Farage and Leader by the GE.

    A Farage-Trump special relationship. We could be the 51st State by Christmas.
    That would be brilliant for you because you'd no longer have to worry about being attacked by Russia.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,888
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

    Inevitable and Sunak and the Chief Whip had no choice but lots of Reform voters likely agree with Anderson so will be difficult to get them back
    I always thought that Anderson was quite likely to hold his seat even if the Tories lost half their seats.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,453
    It’s 11pm in Bangkok on a SATURDAY NIGHT and I have a pocketful of cash and…

    I’m sitting watching rugby drinking peppermint tea

    Life, huh
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,126

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

    Inevitable and Sunak and the Chief Whip had no choice but lots of Reform voters likely agree with Anderson so will be difficult to get them back
    Yep, but to get them back you'd alienate half the remaining 25% or so who remain loyal to the Tories. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
    You wouldn't, probably a majority of the remaining Tory voters likely agree with Anderson too.

    The ones who don't are mainly Remainer Cameroons who have likely already defected to Starmer Labour or the LDs anyway
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    It shouldn't be hard to do these things but for weak leaders it really is - the Anderson crowd already don't like Rishi and are probably lining up complaints about him 'giving in' to Labour right now.

    Anderson himself will add it to his brand of trying-too-hard 'tell it as it is' phoneyness.
    try saying that something is run by white men and not only do you not get suspended you get promoted
    Truth is generally a good defence. Islamists don’t control Khan, the Jews don’t control the media, but lots of things are run by white men.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,792
    Why didn’t Anderson apologise? Does he think he has higher to rise? Anderson, Braverman and Truss, do they all think they can be the next Trump?
  • Options
    Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,518
    Off topic, but probably of interest to many here: Some American governors are beginning to catch on: 'Whether there’s an actual shortage of housing in the United States is a matter of debate and definition, but expert estimates suggest improving overall affordability would require increasing the existing stock of about 142 million homes by between 1.7 million to 7.3 million.

    The result is a pendulum swing in favor of growth and development. “The rent is too damn high, and we don’t have enough damn housing,” said Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D). “Our response will be simple: Build, baby, build!” She set a goal of 75,000 new or refurbished units in five years. She touted a new $1.4 billion state investment in construction. “The single largest threat to our future prosperity is the price of housing,” said Utah Gov. Spencer Cox (R), who called for $150 million worth of infrastructure and other spending to support construction of 35,000 starter homes by 2028.'

    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/02/24/housing-governors-affordable-red-tape/

    The editorial goes on to say that some governors -- even a few Democrats -- are at least saying that regulations are part of the problem. Here's an extreme example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/02/22/maui-fires-hawaii-housing/
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson: MP suspended from Tory party over criticism of London mayor"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68392621

    Inevitable and Sunak and the Chief Whip had no choice but lots of Reform voters likely agree with Anderson so will be difficult to get them back
    Yep, but to get them back you'd alienate half the remaining 25% or so who remain loyal to the Tories. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
    You wouldn't, probably a majority of the remaining Tory voters likely agree with Anderson too.

    The ones who don't are mainly Remainer Cameroons who have likely already defected to Starmer Labour or the LDs anyway
    Or maybe the decent one nation conservatives
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,785

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    Safe Tory seat for Farage and Leader by the GE.

    A Farage-Trump special relationship. We could be the 51st State by Christmas.
    That would be brilliant for you because you'd no longer have to worry about being attacked by Russia.
    If they did, we could fight them off with all the legal AR-15s that we'd be able to buy
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,971
    edited February 24

    Why didn’t Anderson apologise? Does he think he has higher to rise? Anderson, Braverman and Truss, do they all think they can be the next Trump?

    I don't think it's that with Anderson, I think he's just one of those people who just refuse to ever admit any fault, of the possibility they might have been unreasonable or harsh in their opinion, because they falsely think it makes them weak. So they won't even fake it, trying to make it a strength though blustering.

    We shall see if he adds a dose of victimhood about being silenced or some crap, which would be a good sign he is doing it for attention.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,453
    edited February 24
    Peaceful British political life continues

    "Yesterday evening, Stoke-on-Trent Conservatives held a re-election fundraising dinner disrupted by a pro Palestine mob. Yelling “you support Genocide” and “shame on you” isn’t an argument. It’s intimidation.

    This isn’t what democracy should look like in a civilised society."

    https://x.com/ArchRose90/status/1761359671116337516?s=20



    "This ‘peaceful’ protest involved grown men screaming Tory scum at my 11 yr old daughter….

    These people aren’t really bothered about a cause, they make little videos like that try and make a profile for themselves and intimidate others.

    A disgrace to our city"

    https://x.com/daveevans188/status/1761365592441868357?s=20
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,557

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    Safe Tory seat for Farage and Leader by the GE.

    A Farage-Trump special relationship. We could be the 51st State by Christmas.
    That would be brilliant for you because you'd no longer have to worry about being attacked by Russia.
    Though to be fair, Russia has attacked portions of *Russia* - both de facto and de jure.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,557
    CatMan said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    Where next for 30p - defect to RefUK?
    Next poll:

    Tories 18%
    RefUK 15%
    Safe Tory seat for Farage and Leader by the GE.

    A Farage-Trump special relationship. We could be the 51st State by Christmas.
    That would be brilliant for you because you'd no longer have to worry about being attacked by Russia.
    If they did, we could fight them off with all the legal AR-15s that we'd be able to buy
    SIG AR style platforms, Shirley?

    Otherwise you are endorsing this kind of fashion choice…


  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Sadiq Khan: "The deafening silence from Rishi Sunak and from the cabinet is them condoning this racism."

    Meanwhile Speaker Hoyle is enjoys the hospitality of the IDF while they are suspected of genocide.............

    https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760733954737426551
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,082

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    OK.

    Name three of these alleged Herman Berlins.

    Not the lefty defences- but the incidents where the allegations were made.
    I've already given one. Paul Marshall the owner of GB News

    He has been accused by the Left (in the form of Hope not Hate) of using an anoymous Twitter account to retweet some stridently anti-immigrant rhetoric (but nothing illegal, as far as I can see)

    They couldn't even find original tweets, just retweets. That's it. And on this basis (infinitely flimsier than all the years of stuff I've presented re Khan) they say he is not fit to own British media, he should be hounded out of public life, etc etc


    "Sir Paul Marshall, GB News co-owner and would-be Telegraph owner, has been ‘liking’ and spreading some pretty vile things on
    @x
    This casts a different light on his desire to be a mini-Murdoch. My column."

    https://x.com/arusbridger/status/1761304176573735106?s=20
    Not really the same, though, is it?

    Much more recent and "didn't write it, just passed it on" isn't much of a defence.

    Full marks for the chaff you're throwing, but Anderson dropped a bollock big time yesterday.
    As I have said, I haven't referenced Anderson once

    FWIW I will repeat my personal opinion given below. Do I think Khan is an Islamist? No, my firm guess is that he isn't. But he does have a long history of seriously dodgy associations and I can easily see why you could conclude differently. And I really do despise the constant attempt to shut down these debates with the word "Islamophobia": this technique is as fraudulent as it is tiresome

    My main objection to Khan is much more pragmatic: he is a rubbish mayor. Boring, inert and clueless. A great city like London needs and deserves better - a dash of charisma and pzazz. Is that too much to ask?

    Also there should be term limits on the mayoralty. Two is enough for anyone
    Not really sure why someone would want ot be mayor more than twice to be honest. It's not as powerful a position as most American mayors I expect, and whilst its high profile it's the end of the road career wise unless you can parlay it into a rejuvenated parliamentary career, and after 12 years that would be trickier.
    Well, I think you have identified Khan's issue. Mayor of London is as good as it is going to get, for him. The job has exposed him as dull and uninspiring, even duller than Starmer, and also he DOES have this troubling backstory, which would become much more problematic if he ever aimed higher - however his decidedly middling talents mean he is not going higher anyway. He's not senior minister material, let alone PM calibre

    So he might as well stay as mayor. Nice job, lots of money, status and flunkeys, and Labour are so far ahead in the capital he will
    cruise to victory again - whyever not?

    He must be annoying other possible Labour candidates tho. I imagine quite a few bright London Labourites fancy their chances at being mayor, but Khan is bed-blocking them

    Why the F didn't HMG put term limits in the original mayoral legislation? DUH
    I know it’s Neon Fascist Imperialism to suggest it, but maybe someone could try being a better candidate than Khan?
    I quite like the idea of Neon Imperialism.

    Does it come in Hot Pink too?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,557

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Have you got anything apart from guilt by association? Any islamist rhetoric from Khan himself?

    I mean what do you want? He appears to be a muslim politician who is secular, democratic, believes in human rights, has distanced himself from people he once shared stages with. You should be celebrating him. But he's never going to pass the Leon purity test. What are muslims to make of this?

    Would you make the same points about someone with past associations with neo-nazis?
    If they themselves condemn neo-nazis, haven't said anything neo-nazi themselves, and have distanced themselves from people they once shared stages with, then yes the same points would be equally valid, of course.

    Why do you ask? Do you have someone in mind?
    Yes, you often hear this rhetoric of forgiveness from the Left

    "Look, OK, this Tory mayoral candidate Herman Berlin has defended neo-Nazis in court. Including murderers. And yes OK his onetime brother in law is an actual Nazi. And yes OK in 2003 he shared a platform with multiple neo Nazis. And yes OK he did that again in 2004. Twice. And yes alright in 2005 he shared a platform five times with known neo-Nazis. And sure, alright, he did that again - attend rallies and speak alongside neo Nazis - in 2006, and 2007. And yes OK Mr Berlin also wrote to the government to say neoNazi Nick Griffin was actully a fine person who has been traduced and they should stop persecuting him. And yes OK Mister Berlin voluntarily became the legal representative for neoNazi group Britain First. But all this was ages ago and now he says he's sorry so it's totally fine"

    That's a typical speech you commonly hear
    OK.

    Name three of these alleged Herman Berlins.

    Not the lefty defences- but the incidents where the allegations were made.
    I've already given one. Paul Marshall the owner of GB News

    He has been accused by the Left (in the form of Hope not Hate) of using an anoymous Twitter account to retweet some stridently anti-immigrant rhetoric (but nothing illegal, as far as I can see)

    They couldn't even find original tweets, just retweets. That's it. And on this basis (infinitely flimsier than all the years of stuff I've presented re Khan) they say he is not fit to own British media, he should be hounded out of public life, etc etc


    "Sir Paul Marshall, GB News co-owner and would-be Telegraph owner, has been ‘liking’ and spreading some pretty vile things on
    @x
    This casts a different light on his desire to be a mini-Murdoch. My column."

    https://x.com/arusbridger/status/1761304176573735106?s=20
    Not really the same, though, is it?

    Much more recent and "didn't write it, just passed it on" isn't much of a defence.

    Full marks for the chaff you're throwing, but Anderson dropped a bollock big time yesterday.
    As I have said, I haven't referenced Anderson once

    FWIW I will repeat my personal opinion given below. Do I think Khan is an Islamist? No, my firm guess is that he isn't. But he does have a long history of seriously dodgy associations and I can easily see why you could conclude differently. And I really do despise the constant attempt to shut down these debates with the word "Islamophobia": this technique is as fraudulent as it is tiresome

    My main objection to Khan is much more pragmatic: he is a rubbish mayor. Boring, inert and clueless. A great city like London needs and deserves better - a dash of charisma and pzazz. Is that too much to ask?

    Also there should be term limits on the mayoralty. Two is enough for anyone
    Not really sure why someone would want ot be mayor more than twice to be honest. It's not as powerful a position as most American mayors I expect, and whilst its high profile it's the end of the road career wise unless you can parlay it into a rejuvenated parliamentary career, and after 12 years that would be trickier.
    Well, I think you have identified Khan's issue. Mayor of London is as good as it is going to get, for him. The job has exposed him as dull and uninspiring, even duller than Starmer, and also he DOES have this troubling backstory, which would become much more problematic if he ever aimed higher - however his decidedly middling talents mean he is not going higher anyway. He's not senior minister material, let alone PM calibre

    So he might as well stay as mayor. Nice job, lots of money, status and flunkeys, and Labour are so far ahead in the capital he will
    cruise to victory again - whyever not?

    He must be annoying other possible Labour candidates tho. I imagine quite a few bright London Labourites fancy their chances at being mayor, but Khan is bed-blocking them

    Why the F didn't HMG put term limits in the original mayoral legislation? DUH
    I know it’s Neon Fascist Imperialism to suggest it, but maybe someone could try being a better candidate than Khan?
    I quite like the idea of Neon Imperialism.

    Does it come in Hot Pink too?


    Nice Bergman

    Not sure about the accessorisation of the ammunition pouches, though.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Sadiq Khan: "The deafening silence from Rishi Sunak and from the cabinet is them condoning this racism."

    Meanwhile Speaker Hoyle is enjoys the hospitality of the IDF while they are suspected of genocide.............

    https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760733954737426551
    Given that the population of Gaza has increased by about 900% since 1967 while the population of Jews in Arab countries has fallen by about 99% which group do you think has suffered genocide ?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,557
    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Sadiq Khan: "The deafening silence from Rishi Sunak and from the cabinet is them condoning this racism."

    Meanwhile Speaker Hoyle is enjoys the hospitality of the IDF while they are suspected of genocide.............

    https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760733954737426551
    Are you still endorsing the plant rapist?
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,422
    edited February 24

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SamCoatesSky

    💥Lee Anderson suspended

    A spokesperson for Chief Whip Simon Hart said:

    "Following his refusal to apologise for comments made yesterday, the Chief Whip has suspended the Conservative whip from Lee Anderson MP."

    It shouldn't be hard to do these things but for weak leaders it really is - the Anderson crowd already don't like Rishi and are probably lining up complaints about him 'giving in' to Labour right now.

    Anderson himself will add it to his brand of trying-too-hard 'tell it as it is' phoneyness.
    try saying that something is run by white men and not only do you not get suspended you get promoted
    Truth is generally a good defence. Islamists don’t control Khan, the Jews don’t control the media, but lots of things are run by white men.
    yes but surely the crime is not that it is inaccurate or exaggerated but the inference of saying something distasteful . It is clearly not a sacking matter and should be left (as nearly all things ) to the electorate to decide . The tory party is bascally finished because it is not in any shape of form Conservative and is actually worse than the woke left in that it is just cowardly - at least the woke left are stupid enough to seem to believe in their utopia , the tories are just to cowardly to oppose it
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894

    Roger said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Sadiq Khan: "The deafening silence from Rishi Sunak and from the cabinet is them condoning this racism."

    Meanwhile Speaker Hoyle is enjoys the hospitality of the IDF while they are suspected of genocide.............

    https://twitter.com/Lowkey0nline/status/1760733954737426551
    Are you still endorsing the plant rapist?
    That's a new one!
This discussion has been closed.