BBC - New Malden ex-postmistress aims to stand against Sir Ed Davey
An ex-deputy postmistress from London says she will stand against Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey at the next general election, as he faces criticism over his role in the Post Office scandal.
Yvonne Tracey worked at New Malden post office for more than 30 years and said Sir Ed's attitude "must be challenged".
Sir Ed, MP for Kingston and Surbiton, initially refused to meet campaigner Alan Bates when he was a minister.
He has now said he was "deeply misled" by Post Office executives. . . .
A Lib Dem spokesperson told the BBC: "Ed's heart goes out to the families caught up in this scandal and his focus is on getting justice and compensation for those impacted.
"He bitterly regrets that the Post Office was not honest with him at the time and will fully cooperate with the inquiry to get to the bottom of what went wrong."
They added: "Ed has earned the reputation as a hardworking and tireless local MP, who helps thousands of residents, businesses and community groups every year, which has resulted in him serving the constituency for 30 years."
A public inquiry into the Post Office affair, which was launched in 2021, resumed this week. The Post Office said it aims to get to "the truth of what went wrong".
A spokesperson for Fujitsu, the tech company that developed the Horizon system, said the company recognised the "devastating impact on postmasters' lives and that of their families" and had "apologised for its role in their suffering".
I don’t know who advising him but that’s almost up at Priti levels of non apology apology. Come on Ed, you’re better than that.
Has he actually provided any details about: - who lied to him - when - what the lies were - when he realised he had been lied to - what he did when he realised he was being or had been lied to?
Is he going to provide such details?
Otherwise it's just another "I'm a gullible moron so you can't blame me" defence?
A5nd if he was lied to, did he perhaps make it easy for civil servants to do this to him? He might want to reflect on that.
His only get out now I think is a really full and frank disclosure, exactly as you suggest above. Otherwise he looks like he’s hiding. I say this as a - frustrated - Lib Dem who has a lot of time for Davey.
We need a frank disclose on VET bills. My dog cut her leg one inch cut quite deep was a few stitches a few ml of metacam and an antibiotic jab plus a few in tablet firm. Total bill 500 quid. Frankly I think its extortionate. It wasn't even a General anaesthetic, it was sedation . It would have probably have been 600. . What can we do? We have to pay and they know it.
It’s a fascinating phenomenon, as I can attest as a cat owner and recent victim.
Veterinary practices used to be one of the most decentralised, unconsolidated industries. They had little pricing or buying power. In the last few years, as with their close cousins dentists, they have consolidated massively. Most vets are now large chains and franchises. It means they have more buying power with their suppliers, and vastly more selling power with customers and insurance companies.
We switched away from Vets4Pets to a local independent vet practice - Hall Court. They're of a large enough size to run their own in house out of hours service & they run a drive up and wait service (Like your GP used to) We've found them much better than vets4pets and their out of hours service is miles better than VetsNow, which is disgustingly expensive
viewcode - Since you are interested in these questions, you might want to read two American classics, C. Wright Mills' "The Power Elite", and Robert Dahl's "Who Governs", which can be read as a refutation of Mills.
In my opinion Dahl was far more right than Mills, but has lost the political argument in many American colleges and universities.
(Some will prefer Richard Rovere's half-Joking essay, "The American Establishment" to either book.)
My Ph.D was based on this argument although in the context of English local politics. My conclusion was mostly in line with Dahl - political power is largely exercised through political institutions ( which can however be taken over by other elites, mostly economic, although sometimes cultural).
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Marchers out and about today chanting pro-Houthi slogans.
The Houthis being of course such poor innocent victims of unprovoked US and UK aggression. The poor dears, with their slavery, Taliban-style gender politics and oh I almost forgot, their lobbing of missiles and drones at international shipping.
Perhaps media outlets should start prefacing mediaevalist groups like this with “right wing” or “far right”. Because they are.
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
It's the bits in between not made in Cymru that you need to worry about, then?
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
But can you assure use, that these superior Cambrian wings, are assembled right-side up, by the non-Welshers who (hopefully) are attaching them to the air frame?
In latest aeronautical mishap, no one is saying there was anything wrong with the door/window/whatever was fabricated in Witchitq.
But clearly a BIG problem with the way it was NOT bolted down correctly in Seattle by Boeing, allegedly the last time before the damn thing was covered up (inside main cabin).
Until that is it fell off at 16k feet altitude, that is. Another half-hour would have been at 30k feet.
Interesting header. But to repeat a comment I made in response to the NU10K stuff. The real elite (in old marxist terms, the owners of the means of production) must be laughing their socks off at stuff like this and Goodwin's nonsense, because it distracts from the enormous corporate power they still hold in most Western countries (and, increasingly, globally). Think about the immense power of the huge corporations - the Amazons, Googles, oil and gas companies, Tesco - I could go on and on.
I don't deny that there is (as Weber predicted a long, long time ago) a bureaucratic elite, and that elite has significant failings. But to focus entirely on them and ignore the continuing power of big business, corporate greed, the military and so on is to miss a huge wedge of the source of power. Maybe I should write an alternative header.
Indeed you should write a header.
The idea that the U.K. military has any significant political pull is belied by the way that every government since the end of the Cold War has tried to cut military spending as the politically cheap option.
In the U.K. we have a Medical Industrial Complex and a Social Protection Industrial Complex.
Not quite sure who the 10K elite is restricted to. If you add up all the people behind the royal box at Wimbledon, blazered swells in the Pimms tent at Henley, chaps in black tie quaffing Pol Roger on the lawn at Glyndebourne, it comes to much more than 10K. From the point of view of a Marxist insurrectionary (retired) 10K does rather underestimate the scale of the problem.
The old Upper 10,000 was more than 10,000 actual people.
The NU10K are roughly defined as combination of
- important, well paid roles in public, private or third sector - when a scandal hits, the worst they suffer is moving to another job. Often with compensation - while apparently meritocratic, those who gain entry meet certain criteria. Mostly about having the attitude of protecting others at that level.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine reading a 2,453 page report which says nothing – for ever.”
BBC - New Malden ex-postmistress aims to stand against Sir Ed Davey
An ex-deputy postmistress from London says she will stand against Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey at the next general election, as he faces criticism over his role in the Post Office scandal.
Yvonne Tracey worked at New Malden post office for more than 30 years and said Sir Ed's attitude "must be challenged".
Sir Ed, MP for Kingston and Surbiton, initially refused to meet campaigner Alan Bates when he was a minister.
He has now said he was "deeply misled" by Post Office executives. . . .
A Lib Dem spokesperson told the BBC: "Ed's heart goes out to the families caught up in this scandal and his focus is on getting justice and compensation for those impacted.
"He bitterly regrets that the Post Office was not honest with him at the time and will fully cooperate with the inquiry to get to the bottom of what went wrong."
They added: "Ed has earned the reputation as a hardworking and tireless local MP, who helps thousands of residents, businesses and community groups every year, which has resulted in him serving the constituency for 30 years."
A public inquiry into the Post Office affair, which was launched in 2021, resumed this week. The Post Office said it aims to get to "the truth of what went wrong".
A spokesperson for Fujitsu, the tech company that developed the Horizon system, said the company recognised the "devastating impact on postmasters' lives and that of their families" and had "apologised for its role in their suffering".
I don’t know who advising him but that’s almost up at Priti levels of non apology apology. Come on Ed, you’re better than that.
Has he actually provided any details about: - who lied to him - when - what the lies were - when he realised he had been lied to - what he did when he realised he was being or had been lied to?
Is he going to provide such details?
Otherwise it's just another "I'm a gullible moron so you can't blame me" defence?
A5nd if he was lied to, did he perhaps make it easy for civil servants to do this to him? He might want to reflect on that.
His only get out now I think is a really full and frank disclosure, exactly as you suggest above. Otherwise he looks like he’s hiding. I say this as a - frustrated - Lib Dem who has a lot of time for Davey.
We need a frank disclose on VET bills. My dog cut her leg one inch cut quite deep was a few stitches a few ml of metacam and an antibiotic jab plus a few in tablet firm. Total bill 500 quid. Frankly I think its extortionate. It wasn't even a General anaesthetic, it was sedation . It would have probably have been 600. . What can we do? We have to pay and they know it.
It’s a fascinating phenomenon, as I can attest as a cat owner and recent victim.
Veterinary practices used to be one of the most decentralised, unconsolidated industries. They had little pricing or buying power. In the last few years, as with their close cousins dentists, they have consolidated massively. Most vets are now large chains and franchises. It means they have more buying power with their suppliers, and vastly more selling power with customers and insurance companies.
We switched away from Vets4Pets to a local independent vet practice - Hall Court. They're of a large enough size to run their own in house out of hours service & they run a drive up and wait service (Like your GP used to) We've found them much better than vets4pets and their out of hours service is miles better than VetsNow, which is disgustingly expensive
Does lead to the question who benefited from the change (see also the takeover of all the Yourtown Building Societies).
But it's another example of reducing the number of opportunities to exercise genuine independent leadership.
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Yup, I'm happy with 'serial incompetence.'
We're those before our after she became PO CEO, if after then they are irrelevant to her being appointed.
Wasn't the controversial bit of her CoE report that there were too many expensive under utilised (albeit often historic and interesting) churches that should be closed and sold off rather than be a financial burden? Her point may well be valid!
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
But can you assure use, that these superior Cambrian wings, are assembled right-side up, by the non-Welshers who (hopefully) are attaching them to the air frame?
In latest aeronautical mishap, no one is saying there was anything wrong with the door/window/whatever was fabricated in Witchitq.
But clearly a BIG problem with the way it was NOT bolted down correctly in Seattle by Boeing, allegedly the last time before the damn thing was covered up (inside main cabin).
Until that is it fell off at 16k feet altitude, that is. Another half-hour would have been at 30k feet.
My son in law held a senior position in Airbus until he retired 2 years ago, and it is a huge employer of a highly skilled Welsh workforce
They are manufactured in jigs which are amazing engineering constructs and ensure correct alignment and construction
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
But can you assure use, that these superior Cambrian wings, are assembled right-side up, by the non-Welshers who (hopefully) are attaching them to the air frame?
In latest aeronautical mishap, no one is saying there was anything wrong with the door/window/whatever was fabricated in Witchitq.
But clearly a BIG problem with the way it was NOT bolted down correctly in Seattle by Boeing, allegedly the last time before the damn thing was covered up (inside main cabin).
Until that is it fell off at 16k feet altitude, that is. Another half-hour would have been at 30k feet.
The airbus safety record speaks for itself, as does the 737 Max!
I've never actually read any Pareto - he was so unfashionable when I was at University - but I sense a similarity between his 'circulation of elites' and your ideas, and Malmesbury's.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
BBC - New Malden ex-postmistress aims to stand against Sir Ed Davey
An ex-deputy postmistress from London says she will stand against Lib Dem leader Sir Ed Davey at the next general election, as he faces criticism over his role in the Post Office scandal.
Yvonne Tracey worked at New Malden post office for more than 30 years and said Sir Ed's attitude "must be challenged".
Sir Ed, MP for Kingston and Surbiton, initially refused to meet campaigner Alan Bates when he was a minister.
He has now said he was "deeply misled" by Post Office executives. . . .
A Lib Dem spokesperson told the BBC: "Ed's heart goes out to the families caught up in this scandal and his focus is on getting justice and compensation for those impacted.
"He bitterly regrets that the Post Office was not honest with him at the time and will fully cooperate with the inquiry to get to the bottom of what went wrong."
They added: "Ed has earned the reputation as a hardworking and tireless local MP, who helps thousands of residents, businesses and community groups every year, which has resulted in him serving the constituency for 30 years."
A public inquiry into the Post Office affair, which was launched in 2021, resumed this week. The Post Office said it aims to get to "the truth of what went wrong".
A spokesperson for Fujitsu, the tech company that developed the Horizon system, said the company recognised the "devastating impact on postmasters' lives and that of their families" and had "apologised for its role in their suffering".
I don’t know who advising him but that’s almost up at Priti levels of non apology apology. Come on Ed, you’re better than that.
Has he actually provided any details about: - who lied to him - when - what the lies were - when he realised he had been lied to - what he did when he realised he was being or had been lied to?
Is he going to provide such details?
Otherwise it's just another "I'm a gullible moron so you can't blame me" defence?
A5nd if he was lied to, did he perhaps make it easy for civil servants to do this to him? He might want to reflect on that.
His only get out now I think is a really full and frank disclosure, exactly as you suggest above. Otherwise he looks like he’s hiding. I say this as a - frustrated - Lib Dem who has a lot of time for Davey.
We need a frank disclose on VET bills. My dog cut her leg one inch cut quite deep was a few stitches a few ml of metacam and an antibiotic jab plus a few in tablet firm. Total bill 500 quid. Frankly I think its extortionate. It wasn't even a General anaesthetic, it was sedation . It would have probably have been 600. . What can we do? We have to pay and they know it.
It’s a fascinating phenomenon, as I can attest as a cat owner and recent victim.
Veterinary practices used to be one of the most decentralised, unconsolidated industries. They had little pricing or buying power. In the last few years, as with their close cousins dentists, they have consolidated massively. Most vets are now large chains and franchises. It means they have more buying power with their suppliers, and vastly more selling power with customers and insurance companies.
We switched away from Vets4Pets to a local independent vet practice - Hall Court. They're of a large enough size to run their own in house out of hours service & they run a drive up and wait service (Like your GP used to) We've found them much better than vets4pets and their out of hours service is miles better than VetsNow, which is disgustingly expensive
Does lead to the question who benefited from the change (see also the takeover of all the Yourtown Building Societies).
But it's another example of reducing the number of opportunities to exercise genuine independent leadership.
Same with dentists and GPs - many of the former and some of the latter noiw being big corporations.
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
It is dumb, dumb, dumb. Almost Prince-Andrew levels of stupidity.
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
It's the bits in between not made in Cymru that you need to worry about, then?
Interesting header. But to repeat a comment I made in response to the NU10K stuff. The real elite (in old marxist terms, the owners of the means of production) must be laughing their socks off at stuff like this and Goodwin's nonsense, because it distracts from the enormous corporate power they still hold in most Western countries (and, increasingly, globally). Think about the immense power of the huge corporations - the Amazons, Googles, oil and gas companies, Tesco - I could go on and on.
I don't deny that there is (as Weber predicted a long, long time ago) a bureaucratic elite, and that elite has significant failings. But to focus entirely on them and ignore the continuing power of big business, corporate greed, the military and so on is to miss a huge wedge of the source of power. Maybe I should write an alternative header.
Indeed you should write a header.
The idea that the U.K. military has any significant political pull is belied by the way that every government since the end of the Cold War has tried to cut military spending as the politically cheap option.
In the U.K. we have a Medical Industrial Complex and a Social Protection Industrial Complex.
Not quite sure who the 10K elite is restricted to. If you add up all the people behind the royal box at Wimbledon, blazered swells in the Pimms tent at Henley, chaps in black tie quaffing Pol Roger on the lawn at Glyndebourne, it comes to much more than 10K. From the point of view of a Marxist insurrectionary (retired) 10K does rather underestimate the scale of the problem.
The old Upper 10,000 was more than 10,000 actual people.
The NU10K are roughly defined as combination of
- important, well paid roles in public, private or third sector - when a scandal hits, the worst they suffer is moving to another job. Often with compensation - while apparently meritocratic, those who gain entry meet certain criteria. Mostly about having the attitude of protecting others at that level.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine reading a 2,453 page report which says nothing – for ever.”
So as I said, a very circular and therefore useless definition.
Why not just say that people who are both privately educated and been to University are the new elite?
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Yup, I'm happy with 'serial incompetence.'
We're those before our after she became PO CEO, if after then they are irrelevant to her being appointed.
Wasn't the controversial bit of her CoE report that there were too many expensive under utilised (albeit often historic and interesting) churches that should be closed and sold off rather than be a financial burden? Her point may well be valid!
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
A passenger plane has returned to its departure airport in Japan after a crack was found on the cockpit window of the Boeing 737-800 aircraft mid-air.
When I used to fly in the 80s I was always reassured when the plane was a Boeing and not a TriStar or a DC10.
These days the first thing I look for is the safety card. If it states A310, A321 for example, I am good to go. This happened on Delta last month. Blessed relief that the doors are unlikely to shut fast or fall off.On a later flight on BA and I was scratching my head, which is the dodgy one, 737 or 777?
Of course Airbus wings are all made here in North Wales, so you have every right to feel safe with Airbus
It's the bits in between not made in Cymru that you need to worry about, then?
Well that is the French's responsibility
So you're throwing your economic partners under the Airbus? Theoretically, that is!
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She’s a marketing expert, brought into the Post Office when it was wanting to expand its services into banking and broadband and currency and the like.
Her mistake was taking the top job when her senior managerial experience was in one specialist discipline only. One promotion too far, as is often the case (yes, you, Rishi).
There certainly is an elite in the UK. They are primarily privately-educated, they primarily live in London, and they are susceptible to the same sort of groupthink.
There is a left-wing elite, who run the civil service, the public sector, the universities, broadcasting and the arts. There is a right-wing elite, who run the finance industry and certain influential news outlets.
All countries have elites, Britain’s issue is that they are primarily drawn from the same class, universities, and geography.
The elite certainly comprise the administrative, professional and managerial classes in both public and private sectors.
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Yup, I'm happy with 'serial incompetence.'
We're those before our after she became PO CEO, if after then they are irrelevant to her being appointed.
Wasn't the controversial bit of her CoE report that there were too many expensive under utilised (albeit often historic and interesting) churches that should be closed and sold off rather than be a financial burden? Her point may well be valid!
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
At that time though was there any evidence of failure? Or rather of financial recovery?
Rishi Sunak: respectable middle class parents, but can a provincial GP and pharmacist really be considered elite?
Keir Starmer: Father a Surrey toolmaker, mother a nurse. Once again respectable middle class but hardly elite.
To move away from politics, perhaps Paula Vennells? Manchester Grammar School, Bradford University then management trainee at Unilever. Not sure what her parents did, but being born in a coalfield town now incorporated into Manchester doesn't seem elite, so mich as middle class.
Perhaps the CEO of the National theatre? Indhi Rabinsingham, born in Sheffield to Sinhalese Tamil immigrant parents. Doesn't sound particularly elite.
Or the CEO of the National Gallery? Gabriele Finaldi brought up in Barnet and Catford, to a Neapolitan father and Anglo-Polish mother. Doesn't really whiff of elite privilege doesn't it?
How about the CEO of the NHS? Amanda Pritchard was Comprehensive schooled in Somerset, daughter of an Anglican priest who later became a Bishop.
Just to pick a few fairly randomly.
So none from an elite background, but all elite now. All from middle class backgrounds but none obviously benefiting from insider connections.
So is there really a mysterious elite of mutual benefit? Or just a bunch of people with successful careers from a wide variety of middle class backgrounds?
It seems we are define elite as the people in charge, a meaningless circular definition.
Paula Vennells was at Manchester Grammar? Are you sure? Given it's boys only that seems unlikely.
Sorry, Manchester High School for Girls. It doesn't really invalidate my point though.
If you define elite as anyone ambitious who had a successful post University career then it is a pretty useless concept.
If you define it more narrowly as the Notting Hill Set or friends of the Spectator editor then you might have a point, but they have only fairly narrow bounds of elite privilege.
I think it might more usefully be argued that it's anyone who got into a 'top' uni and had a successful career despite never showing the slightest sign of basic competence.
Many of them did indeed go to private school. Indeed, some of these schools must be astonishingly good at getting teenagers through exams, judging by the results, but unfortunately they don't seem to have thought critical thinking, intellectual curiosity or personal humility en route.
So to stick with Paula Vennals:
Was Bradford University a top university when she went there in the late 1970's, or even now?
Is there any evidence that she was incompetent in any of her jobs prior to the Post Office? Or was she pretty good at them?
She was responsible for covering up massive criminality when she could have exposed it, leaving her at risk of a charge of perverting The course of justice.
She is also accused of leading an organisation that indulged in false accounting due to not understanding the rules around compensation.
That sounds like incompetence to me.
Sure, she has been incompetent at the PO, but you did claim that she had been incompetent previously and fell upwards.
Can you cite anything in support of that allegation?
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Yup, I'm happy with 'serial incompetence.'
We're those before our after she became PO CEO, if after then they are irrelevant to her being appointed.
Wasn't the controversial bit of her CoE report that there were too many expensive under utilised (albeit often historic and interesting) churches that should be closed and sold off rather than be a financial burden? Her point may well be valid!
She worked at Argos, then was headhunted for a role in the post office that she held for five years before being made CEO.
At that time though was there any evidence of failure? Or rather of financial recovery?
You mean, apart from the decay of Argos and the terrible reputation it built up while she was working for it? Well, that probably wasn't all her fault, but...
I've never actually read any Pareto - he was so unfashionable when I was at University - but I sense a similarity between his 'circulation of elites' and your ideas, and Malmesbury's.
I was drawn to Goodwin's theory. Russell Group, Managerial and Liberal. That sums me up. I wouldn't get invited onto the Board of a any panel or Board, despite 50 years in business.
Wherever I look, all roads lead to and from Tufton Street. COVID, Post Office/Jujitsu rammed full of Tories. Has anyone noticed the symmetry between Dido Harding/ John Penrose and Michael Keegan/ Gillian Keegan.
Even in Labour Wales, the Welsh National Opera, Dwr Cymru, Natural Resources Wales, and others besides were/are manned by links to CCHQ. There was a time if your name was Nicholas Edwards, Roe-Beddow or Inkin, the invites to join even more ranks of the great and the good must have given the local postie a hernia.
Only because we have a Tory government, once Labour get back in quangos will be packed with Labour supporters again as they were in the New Labour years
There certainly is an elite in the UK. They are primarily privately-educated, they primarily live in London, and they are susceptible to the same sort of groupthink.
There is a left-wing elite, who run the civil service, the public sector, the universities, broadcasting and the arts. There is a right-wing elite, who run the finance industry and certain influential news outlets.
All countries have elites, Britain’s issue is that they are primarily drawn from the same class, universities, and geography.
The elite certainly comprise the administrative, professional and managerial classes in both public and private sectors.
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
The UK is better than some countries, and worse than others. It could be better.
The best description I have seen recently of this new elite (which is simply a reformation of the old elite to all intents and purposes) came from the Bishop of Liverpool in his Hillsborough report as quoted today by the Guardian
“The patronising disposition of unaccountable power”.
For me, the issue with our NU10K is not that they are incompetent, it is that they are anti-competent. It goes further than a few silly overpaid sods causing the occasional fuck up, and goes into the territory of having a completely 'other' raison d'être than that of humble functionaries doing their best for Blighty. It is there that the issue lies. I am not blaming any one organisation for this, but it is instructive to look at an organisation with the reach of CP, whose graduates have included Cressida 'shoot to kill' Dick, to identify what it is that they're saying in the training they're delivering, what they hope to achieve by it, and who is benefitting. CP considers its graduates 'agents of social change' - is this social change a positive development that most of us are happy to sign up to? One rather suspects not.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
"The British State currently consists of a Prime Minster and a Cabinet who take all the blame, and a network of central and local government, quangos, charities, pressure groups, support structures, third sector orgs, etc who make all the decisions."
The PM and the Cabinet also try to take the praise when something works well, whilst blaming others when it doesn't [inflation is just a recent example, nothing to do with the PM if it rises, all,down to him when it falls].
To my mind, at least some of the issue here is due to the over-centralization of the UK (English) state. The PM and Cabinet take all of the power, including for matters they have no chance of controlling, and the net result is that things that they should be on top of are low down the list. When we have a PM interested in potholes in streets, then there is no chance he is as interested in the major issues that he should be. As a result, many issues, from the NHS to the Post Office are inevitably run by the central bureaucracy. There is no reason why health, most transport, and many other services shouldn't be devolved from central government at least regionally to democratically elected representatives. It is how most other medium to large sized countries work.
And if anything, the long run trend is to more centralisation. A lot of local government is now delivering what central government demands from an income central government constrains and praying that the latter is enough to do the former. Or the gutting of professional local media, whether that's papers, TV or radio. Or the reduced autonomy for the local bank manager, headteacher et cetera. Or the decay of theatres in second tier and below cities.
We chose to do this to ourselves, either because we thought it would be cheaper and more efficient, or because of fear of a postcode lottery, or because we don't want more politicians. And maybe it is better, but it does put power in fewer hands.
We did it to ourselves because those who rightly decry the Nanny State principle failed to notice they were enacting exactly that. Thatcher, for all that she did a lot of good things, had a complete blind spot about letting people (or at least middle class people) suffer the consequences of their actions. She looked at examples of bad local Government and decided that people should be protected from their own electoral choices and gtherefore the only safe way to do that was to centralise as much as possible.
Either you treat people like adults - including allowing them to make bad choices and suffer the consequences - or you treat them like big kids and make sure their choices are only symbolic.
We need genuine decentralisation and to trust people to make decisions for themselves, for better or worse.
Yes, Thatcher's abolition of the GLC was a vindictive, anti-democratic act of political spite. She didn't like the way Londoners voted, so she abolished it.
Though the GLC was effectively restored by New Labour in the form of the London Assembly
Interesting header. But to repeat a comment I made in response to the NU10K stuff. The real elite (in old marxist terms, the owners of the means of production) must be laughing their socks off at stuff like this and Goodwin's nonsense, because it distracts from the enormous corporate power they still hold in most Western countries (and, increasingly, globally). Think about the immense power of the huge corporations - the Amazons, Googles, oil and gas companies, Tesco - I could go on and on.
I don't deny that there is (as Weber predicted a long, long time ago) a bureaucratic elite, and that elite has significant failings. But to focus entirely on them and ignore the continuing power of big business, corporate greed, the military and so on is to miss a huge wedge of the source of power. Maybe I should write an alternative header.
Indeed you should write a header.
The idea that the U.K. military has any significant political pull is belied by the way that every government since the end of the Cold War has tried to cut military spending as the politically cheap option.
In the U.K. we have a Medical Industrial Complex and a Social Protection Industrial Complex.
Not quite sure who the 10K elite is restricted to. If you add up all the people behind the royal box at Wimbledon, blazered swells in the Pimms tent at Henley, chaps in black tie quaffing Pol Roger on the lawn at Glyndebourne, it comes to much more than 10K. From the point of view of a Marxist insurrectionary (retired) 10K does rather underestimate the scale of the problem.
The old Upper 10,000 was more than 10,000 actual people.
The NU10K are roughly defined as combination of
- important, well paid roles in public, private or third sector - when a scandal hits, the worst they suffer is moving to another job. Often with compensation - while apparently meritocratic, those who gain entry meet certain criteria. Mostly about having the attitude of protecting others at that level.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine reading a 2,453 page report which says nothing – for ever.”
So as I said, a very circular and therefore useless definition.
Why not just say that people who are both privately educated and been to University are the new elite?
Including Donald Trump. Though do NOT believe DJT's mis-education credentials, military school (posh Borstal for you Brits) and Wharton Skooool of Bidnes, really relevant in his case(s).
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Actually I am still waiting for my conducted tour of the Shannon AWB promised by my son and the cox, but then I have had more important and on going health issues that I and my family will hopefully see addressed on the 6th Feb with my pacemaker operation
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Tim Miller @Timodc Trump's PAC is sending mail to undeclared voters in NH about how Nikki Haley is MAGA unlike Christie, trying to tamp down crossover voters.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
That maybe so, but Davey was stupid to think ITV was going to do him any favours.
Marchers out and about today chanting pro-Houthi slogans.
The Houthis being of course such poor innocent victims of unprovoked US and UK aggression. The poor dears, with their slavery, Taliban-style gender politics and oh I almost forgot, their lobbing of missiles and drones at international shipping.
Perhaps media outlets should start prefacing mediaevalist groups like this with “right wing” or “far right”. Because they are.
Marchers out and about today chanting pro-Houthi slogans.
The Houthis being of course such poor innocent victims of unprovoked US and UK aggression. The poor dears, with their slavery, Taliban-style gender politics and oh I almost forgot, their lobbing of missiles and drones at international shipping.
Perhaps media outlets should start prefacing mediaevalist groups like this with “right wing” or “far right”. Because they are.
Have they killed 20,000 civilians yet?
I'm sure if you were to focus on what they have done in Yemen, the answer would be yes.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Suspicion.
Jeremy Paxman, brilliant in many ways, started a process that killed the tough political interview, and possibly Newsnight as a programme.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
A simple and genuine I am sorry would have been the right thing to do, and would have closed down the interview
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
A simple and genuine I am sorry would have been the right thing to do, and would have closed down the interview
If he is toast, it's him that pressed the button and turned the dial to 6.
There certainly is an elite in the UK. They are primarily privately-educated, they primarily live in London, and they are susceptible to the same sort of groupthink.
There is a left-wing elite, who run the civil service, the public sector, the universities, broadcasting and the arts. There is a right-wing elite, who run the finance industry and certain influential news outlets.
All countries have elites, Britain’s issue is that they are primarily drawn from the same class, universities, and geography.
The elite certainly comprise the administrative, professional and managerial classes in both public and private sectors.
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
If 39% of the elite come from private school, and 61% from state school, whilst only 7% of kids overall go to private school (at some stage), then the multiplier is that an individual privately educated child is around 8.5x more likely to enter the elite than a state educated child.
The selection of our 'managerial elite' seems to be pretty random, it is people that just somehow find themselves in the position of being a manager, mainly because they think going upwards in an organisation is automatically a good idea. I work in the public sector in a professional role and my main objection is that management is too poorly paid. If you have the choice between being left by yourself to get on with your work uninterrupted and logging off at 5 and being a manager on teams chats all night about some catastrophe/scandal (all recorded forever on some server and potentially discosable) and earning about £200 a month more then what is really the point? Out of every 10 people that go on the journey, about 3 burnout completely, 5 just about manage but hate their job, 2 will be able to actually do the job and occasionally you will get someone who can actually run an organisation. But actually running an organisation involves dealing with crisis after crisis some of which blow up to post office proportions. In my experience the type of people that end up there are completely random.
I wonder how that will play out if it gains more attention.
Persuading Blair to use Horizon, then staying at Jeffrey Epstein’s place whilst Epstein was in prison might make you think Mandy isn’t the wisest of owls. But Sir Keir’s made him his senior advisor, so he must have something about him
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Actually I am still waiting for my conducted tour of the Shannon AWB promised by my son and the cox, but then I have had more important and on going health issues that I and my family will hopefully see addressed on the 6th Feb with my pacemaker operation
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Agree.
But what should Ed Davey have handled the situation?
Bill Clinton (for example) would have repeated same basic response, just kept changing it up via his gift of gab.
Like mentioning, did you know my aunt was a postmaster? And how he'd once defended her against a rogue postal inspector? And he'd been endorsed by Letter Carriers Union five times? And . . .
NOT saying that ED needs to match Bill Clinton standard of political gamespersonship.
Right now he's not achieving even Al Gore standard.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Suspicion.
Jeremy Paxman, brilliant in many ways, started a process that killed the tough political interview, and possibly Newsnight as a programme.
A lot of the best interviews are a lot softer, like the Blue Peter one with Mrs T where she admitted supporting "the reasonable elements" of the Khymer Rouge. I don't think an aggressive interview would have got that admission.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
The sports agent jailed over the Pakistan cricket spot-fixing scandal has become a significant figure in professional boxing and is working with the promoter who has the exclusive contract to deliver shows for Sky Sports.
An investigation by The Sunday Times can reveal that payments well into six figures were made to a company linked to Mazhar Majeed by Boxxer, the promoter which in 2021 signed a four-year, £32 million deal with Sky.
Majeed, who first entered the sport before the formation of Boxxer, is one of the most controversial figures in cricket history. The 48-year-old was sentenced to 32 months in prison in November 2011 for his role in the corruption of a Test match between England and Pakistan at Lord’s that was broadcast live on Sky in August 2010.
There certainly is an elite in the UK. They are primarily privately-educated, they primarily live in London, and they are susceptible to the same sort of groupthink.
There is a left-wing elite, who run the civil service, the public sector, the universities, broadcasting and the arts. There is a right-wing elite, who run the finance industry and certain influential news outlets.
All countries have elites, Britain’s issue is that they are primarily drawn from the same class, universities, and geography.
The elite certainly comprise the administrative, professional and managerial classes in both public and private sectors.
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
If 39% of the elite come from private school, and 61% from state school, whilst only 7% of kids overall go to private school (at some stage), then the multiplier is that an individual privately educated child is around 8.5x more likely to enter the elite than a state educated child.
I think the advantage is smaller, as would have to control for parental income and education, but probably still substantial.
Though we are now at the point of regarding 5-10% of the population as "elite" so around 3-6 million of us.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
Marchers out and about today chanting pro-Houthi slogans.
The Houthis being of course such poor innocent victims of unprovoked US and UK aggression. The poor dears, with their slavery, Taliban-style gender politics and oh I almost forgot, their lobbing of missiles and drones at international shipping.
Perhaps media outlets should start prefacing mediaevalist groups like this with “right wing” or “far right”. Because they are.
Have they killed 20,000 civilians yet?
I'm sure if you were to focus on what they have done in Yemen, the answer would be yes.
"With friends like these, who needs Yemenis?" - Boris in the FT, 2017.
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Actually I am still waiting for my conducted tour of the Shannon AWB promised by my son and the cox, but then I have had more important and on going health issues that I and my family will hopefully see addressed on the 6th Feb with my pacemaker operation
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Agree.
But what should Ed Davey have handled the situation?
Bill Clinton (for example) would have repeated same basic response, just kept changing it up via his gift of gab.
Like mentioning, did you know my aunt was a postmaster? And how he'd once defended her against a rogue postal inspector? And he'd been endorsed by Letter Carriers Union five times? And . . .
NOT saying that ED needs to match Bill Clinton standard of political gamespersonship.
Right now he's not achieving even Al Gore standard.
If he wasn’t going to apologise, and he doesn’t have to if he doesn’t think he should, he should have just said “I haven’t got anything to apologise for, I did my best with the information I was given. I met Alan Bates, listened to what he had to say, then relayed his concerns to the relevant people”
But the halfway house of repeating “I regret…” whilst pretending he’d not been asked the question before looked so bad.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
Don't you think a combination of falling inflation, stopping the boats in December, low petrol prices, falling fixed term mortgages, 2% tax cuts, the Opposition Leaders' Post Office debacle and the war in Yemen will shift the dial?
Note sure how NFL players & coaches feel about academic elite theory (or is it elite academic theory)? However . . .
AP (via Seattle Times) Bills-Steelers playoff game moved to Monday amid forecast for dangerous winter weather
BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — The Buffalo Bills’ wild-card playoff game against the Pittsburgh Steelers that was scheduled for Sunday was moved to Monday amid a forecast for dangerous winter weather, New York Gov. Kathy Hochul announced Saturday.
Hochul and other officials said they were making the change for safety’s sake. “We want our Bills to win, but we don’t want 60,000 to 70,000 people traveling to the football game in what’s going to be horrible conditions,” Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said at a news conference in the Buffalo suburbs.
Officials advised residents to stay off the roads starting at nightfall on Saturday, with a driving ban taking effect at 9 p.m. The game will now be played at Highmark Stadium at 4:30 p.m. Monday instead of 1 p.m. Sunday.
Hochul said she started talking with the NFL on Thursday about the possibility of having to reschedule the game. From her hometown of Buffalo, she closed her news conference by saying, “Go, Bills.”
The NFL and Bills issued a statement citing “public safety concerns” as the reason to push back the game by a day.
The forecast for the Buffalo area called for heavy snow and winds gusting as high as 65 mph (105 kph) Saturday, with 1 to 2 feet or more of snow eventually piling up. The National Weather Service issued a winter storm warning lasting through 7 a.m. Monday, saying that “travel will be very difficult to impossible at times,” with the combination of snow and very strong wind causing near-zero visibility. . .
SSI - Here is weather forecast for Monday for Des Moines, Iowa
Bitterly cold. Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High near 0 F (-18 C). Winds WNW at 10 to 20 mph.
Good news is forecast UVI index only 1 of 11, so little risk of sunburn! But different story re: frostbite.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
A lot of effort seems to be going into pretending that the key decision makers in this country are mid level managers in the civil service and anyone with an arts degree rather than government ministers and wealthy Tory party donors. Guys, I know wealthy Tory party donors. I also know mid level managers in the Civil service. I am under no Illusions as to who wields most power.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
General question. Should people with a public profile apologise when they think they haven't done anything wrong? My personal rule is not to. I do apologise quite freely when I do think I'm at fault and I show empathy when others have been hurt and are frustrated.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
In which case, the right decision would have been to wait until the judgment. Not least because there was plenty of evidence coming out of the hearing suggesting serious concerns about the Post Office's behaviour.
Aren't these civil servants meant to be Top People? Why is their judgment so utterly shit?
Note sure how NFL players & coaches feel about academic elite theory (or is it elite academic theory)? However . . .
AP (via Seattle Times) Bills-Steelers playoff game moved to Monday amid forecast for dangerous winter weather
BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — The Buffalo Bills’ wild-card playoff game against the Pittsburgh Steelers that was scheduled for Sunday was moved to Monday amid a forecast for dangerous winter weather, New York Gov. Kathy Hochul announced Saturday.
Hochul and other officials said they were making the change for safety’s sake. “We want our Bills to win, but we don’t want 60,000 to 70,000 people traveling to the football game in what’s going to be horrible conditions,” Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said at a news conference in the Buffalo suburbs.
Officials advised residents to stay off the roads starting at nightfall on Saturday, with a driving ban taking effect at 9 p.m. The game will now be played at Highmark Stadium at 4:30 p.m. Monday instead of 1 p.m. Sunday.
Hochul said she started talking with the NFL on Thursday about the possibility of having to reschedule the game. From her hometown of Buffalo, she closed her news conference by saying, “Go, Bills.”
The NFL and Bills issued a statement citing “public safety concerns” as the reason to push back the game by a day.
The forecast for the Buffalo area called for heavy snow and winds gusting as high as 65 mph (105 kph) Saturday, with 1 to 2 feet or more of snow eventually piling up. The National Weather Service issued a winter storm warning lasting through 7 a.m. Monday, saying that “travel will be very difficult to impossible at times,” with the combination of snow and very strong wind causing near-zero visibility. . .
SSI - Here is weather forecast for Monday for Des Moines, Iowa
Bitterly cold. Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High near 0 F (-18 C). Winds WNW at 10 to 20 mph.
Good news is forecast UVI index only 1 of 11, so little risk of sunburn! But different story re: frostbite.
Buffalo Bills. The only NFL team anywhere in New York State. And an advertisement for building a roof if there ever was one.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
General question. Should people with a public profile apologise when they think they haven't done anything wrong? My personal rule is not to. I do apologise quite freely when I do think I'm at fault and I show empathy when others have been hurt and are frustrated.
Government ministers used to resign when something went wrong in their department, even if they hadn't done anything wrong personally.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
It is dumb, dumb, dumb. Almost Prince-Andrew levels of stupidity.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
General question. Should people with a public profile apologise when they think they haven't done anything wrong? My personal rule is not to. I do apologise quite freely when I do think I'm at fault and I show empathy when others have been hurt and are frustrated.
Government ministers used to resign when something went wrong in their department, even if they hadn't done anything wrong personally.
"You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords."
There certainly is an elite in the UK. They are primarily privately-educated, they primarily live in London, and they are susceptible to the same sort of groupthink.
There is a left-wing elite, who run the civil service, the public sector, the universities, broadcasting and the arts. There is a right-wing elite, who run the finance industry and certain influential news outlets.
All countries have elites, Britain’s issue is that they are primarily drawn from the same class, universities, and geography.
The elite certainly comprise the administrative, professional and managerial classes in both public and private sectors.
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
The UK is better than some countries, and worse than others. It could be better.
You'd never have just 7% from private schools in "the elite" under any scenario.
State education is compulsory and includes those who go into unskilled jobs and no jobs, who would be unlikely to show up in any elite very often, whereas those who invest in private education would not do so for the same.
I'd say the practical par is about 25-30%. It's always going to be higher than the raw average rate, and is not a sign of discrimination.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Suspicion.
Jeremy Paxman, brilliant in many ways, started a process that killed the tough political interview, and possibly Newsnight as a programme.
John Humphrys on the wireless with the candelabra imo.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
General question. Should people with a public profile apologise when they think they haven't done anything wrong? My personal rule is not to. I do apologise quite freely when I do think I'm at fault and I show empathy when others have been hurt and are frustrated.
Government ministers used to resign when something went wrong in their department, even if they hadn't done anything wrong personally.
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Actually I am still waiting for my conducted tour of the Shannon AWB promised by my son and the cox, but then I have had more important and on going health issues that I and my family will hopefully see addressed on the 6th Feb with my pacemaker operation
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Agree.
But what should Ed Davey have handled the situation?
Bill Clinton (for example) would have repeated same basic response, just kept changing it up via his gift of gab.
Like mentioning, did you know my aunt was a postmaster? And how he'd once defended her against a rogue postal inspector? And he'd been endorsed by Letter Carriers Union five times? And . . .
NOT saying that ED needs to match Bill Clinton standard of political gamespersonship.
Right now he's not achieving even Al Gore standard.
Yes, I think that if he doesn't want to apologise he needs to say so - "You keep asking the same question, but I think it goes way beyond individuals being pressed to apologise personally. The problem is that senior people have been too ready to assume that computer systems are always right, and that's something all we need not only to apologise for but make sure we don't do it again."
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
Perhaps this is true, but it feels unlikely that the panic is new. Even Tory backbenchers can, like me, do the most primitive form of Baxtering on their abacus. and I am sure at the moment they do little else. As the latest YouGov poll Baxters to roughly the Tories losing 299 seats (leaving 77) one would think there is little new to panic about. Except that Gavin Williamson is among the Gallant 77. Rishi only loses by a bit. Tories should take comfort from the fact that on these figures Labour fall short of the 500 seat target, but not by much.
Tories will not be cheered by my view that, despite all that, NOM remains the value bet.
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
The selection of our 'managerial elite' seems to be pretty random, it is people that just somehow find themselves in the position of being a manager, mainly because they think going upwards in an organisation is automatically a good idea. I work in the public sector in a professional role and my main objection is that management is too poorly paid. If you have the choice between being left by yourself to get on with your work uninterrupted and logging off at 5 and being a manager on teams chats all night about some catastrophe/scandal (all recorded forever on some server and potentially discosable) and earning about £200 a month more then what is really the point? Out of every 10 people that go on the journey, about 3 burnout completely, 5 just about manage but hate their job, 2 will be able to actually do the job and occasionally you will get someone who can actually run an organisation. But actually running an organisation involves dealing with crisis after crisis some of which blow up to post office proportions. In my experience the type of people that end up there are completely random.
I've heard a number of people say either they have turned down promotion or wish they had. The rise of multinationals means more demand for late night or early morning meetings, and the internet and mobile phones make them possible.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
General question. Should people with a public profile apologise when they think they haven't done anything wrong? My personal rule is not to. I do apologise quite freely when I do think I'm at fault and I show empathy when others have been hurt and are frustrated.
Government ministers used to resign when something went wrong in their department, even if they hadn't done anything wrong personally.
Good news transportation wise, is that Big G can rely on something more reassuring, and comfortable, than modern air travel, for HIS upcoming transport needs -
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Actually I am still waiting for my conducted tour of the Shannon AWB promised by my son and the cox, but then I have had more important and on going health issues that I and my family will hopefully see addressed on the 6th Feb with my pacemaker operation
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Agree.
But what should Ed Davey have handled the situation?
Bill Clinton (for example) would have repeated same basic response, just kept changing it up via his gift of gab.
Like mentioning, did you know my aunt was a postmaster? And how he'd once defended her against a rogue postal inspector? And he'd been endorsed by Letter Carriers Union five times? And . . .
NOT saying that ED needs to match Bill Clinton standard of political gamespersonship.
Right now he's not achieving even Al Gore standard.
Yes, I think that if he doesn't want to apologise he needs to say so - "You keep asking the same question, but I think it goes way beyond individuals being pressed to apologise personally. The problem is that senior people have been too ready to assume that computer systems are always right, and that's something all we need not only to apologise for but make sure we don't do it again."
There are lots of sensible answers he could have given, Nick. He is by no means the main person to blame here and may indeed not have that much to be blamed for, not by comparison with others. I - for instance - would be asking some really tough questions of the Post Office's Chairs during this period.
But he didn't. He chose to give an interview but was woefully unprepared for it. Or he thought the way he handled it was the right way to do it.
So he looks either incompetent or lacking in judgment.
I’m kind of angry and how badly Davey has managed / is managing this “scandal”.
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise? It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
It was exactly my point yesterday
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
I think it's lazy interviewing to ask the same question 10 times. Ask it twice, make the point that it's not been answered, and move on - 10 times is irritating "gotch" stuff.
Suspicion.
Jeremy Paxman, brilliant in many ways, started a process that killed the tough political interview, and possibly Newsnight as a programme.
John Humphrys on the wireless with the candelabra imo.
A bit "everybody did it" trope, perhaps.
But creating an idiom where the interviewee can, at best, draw, the whole thing stops being useful.
See also: BoJo ducking an Andrew Neil interview in 2019. A Bad Thing, but very rational from Bozza's point of view.
Sunak’s domestic problems will get worse when detailed seat-by-seat polling is published showing that Labour is on course to win even previously safe Tory seats. The MRP poll, funded by a wealthy Tory donor, will be released in stages and is expected to cause panic on the backbenches when MPs with huge paper majorities learn that they are on course to lose their seats.
Comments
We've found them much better than vets4pets and their out of hours service is miles better than VetsNow, which is disgustingly expensive
Then she oversaw a highly controversial report on the Church of England's future and was a director at Dunelm as the group's profits collapsed.
Yup, I'm happy with 'serial incompetence.'
The Houthis being of course such poor innocent victims of unprovoked US and UK aggression. The poor dears, with their slavery, Taliban-style gender politics and oh I almost forgot, their lobbing of missiles and drones at international shipping.
Perhaps media outlets should start prefacing mediaevalist groups like this with “right wing” or “far right”. Because they are.
In latest aeronautical mishap, no one is saying there was anything wrong with the door/window/whatever was fabricated in Witchitq.
But clearly a BIG problem with the way it was NOT bolted down correctly in Seattle by Boeing, allegedly the last time before the damn thing was covered up (inside main cabin).
Until that is it fell off at 16k feet altitude, that is. Another half-hour would have been at 30k feet.
The NU10K are roughly defined as combination of
- important, well paid roles in public, private or third sector
- when a scandal hits, the worst they suffer is moving to another job. Often with compensation
- while apparently meritocratic, those who gain entry meet certain criteria. Mostly about having the attitude of protecting others at that level.
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine reading a 2,453 page report which says nothing – for ever.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Taiwanese_presidential_election
There was no third party in 2020; in 2016 a different third party got 12%.
But it's another example of reducing the number of opportunities to exercise genuine independent leadership.
Wasn't the controversial bit of her CoE report that there were too many expensive under utilised (albeit often historic and interesting) churches that should be closed and sold off rather than be a financial burden? Her point may well be valid!
They are manufactured in jigs which are amazing engineering constructs and ensure correct alignment and construction
They have recently received huge new orders
Why the hell didn’t he just apologise?
It is not necessary to personally culpable to apologise, and nor does - I think - open one up to prosecution or litigation.
Berk.
1. Boeing should be doing better work on their airplanes.
2. Commercial air travel is significantly safer than it was as little as 20 years ago.
And both of them are.
I've never actually read any Pareto - he was so unfashionable when I was at University - but I sense a similarity between his 'circulation of elites' and your ideas, and Malmesbury's.
Am I wide of the mark?
It was crazy to refuse 10 times to say sorry on an ITV news programme, when he could have calmed the issue down
Sky just interviewed the post mistress standing against him at the GE
By lifeboat. With perhaps a complementary tot of RNLI rum?
Sorry Viewcode, I was reading your header when that happened. It is very readable.
Hasn’t taught me anything yet though.
Almost Prince-Andrew levels of stupidity.
Why not just say that people who are both privately educated and been to University are the new elite?
Her mistake was taking the top job when her senior managerial experience was in one specialist discipline only. One promotion too far, as is often the case (yes, you, Rishi).
However, while more than average, only about 39% come from private school.
https://www.suttontrust.com/our-research/elitist-britain-2019/
In most nations of course the elite tend to come from the upper middle classes, were educated at top universities and work and live in or close to major cities. So the UK is no major exception to that
So you fly safer (at least re: airplane accidents) but arrive feeling sorrier.
“The patronising disposition of unaccountable power”.
Geoff Mulgan warned Blair Horizon was a problem.
I'm so old I actually remembered when Geoff was the Guru of the Times.
Where is he now?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67941495
Indeed it was only a few days ago my son took me into A & E at 2.00am with chest pains, but after urgent tests and ECGs I was sent home by the doctor and consultant to take it easy and not drink coffee, but to return anytime I had issues
My son told me today he has a week's training in Poole in March and is hoping he will gain his helm certification shortly after, which will be his first command position after just 2 years
It is factual I will not fly again, but after all our world travels over the last 20 years, my wife and I have been left with so many memories and gratitude that we were able to see so much of our wonderful world while we could
@Timodc
Trump's PAC is sending mail to undeclared voters in NH about how Nikki Haley is MAGA unlike Christie, trying to tamp down crossover voters.
Jeremy Paxman, brilliant in many ways, started a process that killed the tough political interview, and possibly Newsnight as a programme.
Patriots to the core!
I wonder how that will play out if it gains more attention.
But what should Ed Davey have handled the situation?
Bill Clinton (for example) would have repeated same basic response, just kept changing it up via his gift of gab.
Like mentioning, did you know my aunt was a postmaster? And how he'd once defended her against a rogue postal inspector? And he'd been endorsed by Letter Carriers Union five times? And . . .
NOT saying that ED needs to match Bill Clinton standard of political gamespersonship.
Right now he's not achieving even Al Gore standard.
Theresa May’s government pushed through a CBE for Paula Vennells, the disgraced former Post Office boss, despite concerns raised on the honours committee about the Horizon IT scandal.
Sir Ian Cheshire, now chairman of Channel 4, chaired the sub-committee that recommended Vennells for the most prestigious honour below a knighthood or damehood.
Sources said she was nominated by the Department for Business, although Greg Clark, then business secretary, was not involved. Her name was discussed by the main honours committee, chaired by Sir Jonathan Stephens — then the civil servant responsible for Northern Ireland — in October 2018....
...At least one member of the main honours committee questioned the wisdom of making Vennells a CBE, alluding to the growing noise surrounding the organisation’s mistreatment of sub-postmasters and pointing out that she was still in the role, whereas honours candidates tend to have retired...
...A source close to Cheshire, a former chairman of Debenhams and boss of the DIY chain Kingfisher, said that both the economy sub-committee and the main honours committee decided to recommend Vennells for her CBE after there was “quite a lot of push for her” from the government. The source said that while the committees were aware of the litigation brought by the sub-postmasters at the time, Whitehall officials advised that it was not enough to warrant blocking the honour because a judgment had not yet gone against the Post Office. “That decision turned out to be wrong.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/paula-vennells-cbe-post-office-theresa-may-wcsxh6lqk
The sports agent jailed over the Pakistan cricket spot-fixing scandal has become a significant figure in professional boxing and is working with the promoter who has the exclusive contract to deliver shows for Sky Sports.
An investigation by The Sunday Times can reveal that payments well into six figures were made to a company linked to Mazhar Majeed by Boxxer, the promoter which in 2021 signed a four-year, £32 million deal with Sky.
Majeed, who first entered the sport before the formation of Boxxer, is one of the most controversial figures in cricket history. The 48-year-old was sentenced to 32 months in prison in November 2011 for his role in the corruption of a Test match between England and Pakistan at Lord’s that was broadcast live on Sky in August 2010.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pakistan-cricket-fixing-scandal-agent-jailed-boxing-mfzgl32h3
Though we are now at the point of regarding 5-10% of the population as "elite" so around 3-6 million of us.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-uk-strikes-yemen-relationship-election-year-25qx7rvz0
But the halfway house of repeating “I regret…” whilst pretending he’d not been asked the question before looked so bad.
I wonder who and to what end?
You don't release a poll like this in stages as an innocent seeking of truth.
AP (via Seattle Times) Bills-Steelers playoff game moved to Monday amid forecast for dangerous winter weather
BUFFALO, N.Y. (AP) — The Buffalo Bills’ wild-card playoff game against the Pittsburgh Steelers that was scheduled for Sunday was moved to Monday amid a forecast for dangerous winter weather, New York Gov. Kathy Hochul announced Saturday.
Hochul and other officials said they were making the change for safety’s sake. “We want our Bills to win, but we don’t want 60,000 to 70,000 people traveling to the football game in what’s going to be horrible conditions,” Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said at a news conference in the Buffalo suburbs.
Officials advised residents to stay off the roads starting at nightfall on Saturday, with a driving ban taking effect at 9 p.m. The game will now be played at Highmark Stadium at 4:30 p.m. Monday instead of 1 p.m. Sunday.
Hochul said she started talking with the NFL on Thursday about the possibility of having to reschedule the game. From her hometown of Buffalo, she closed her news conference by saying, “Go, Bills.”
The NFL and Bills issued a statement citing “public safety concerns” as the reason to push back the game by a day.
The forecast for the Buffalo area called for heavy snow and winds gusting as high as 65 mph (105 kph) Saturday, with 1 to 2 feet or more of snow eventually piling up. The National Weather Service issued a winter storm warning lasting through 7 a.m. Monday, saying that “travel will be very difficult to impossible at times,” with the combination of snow and very strong wind causing near-zero visibility. . .
SSI - Here is weather forecast for Monday for Des Moines, Iowa
Bitterly cold. Cloudy skies early, followed by partial clearing. High near 0 F (-18 C). Winds WNW at 10 to 20 mph.
Good news is forecast UVI index only 1 of 11, so little risk of sunburn! But different story re: frostbite.
Man City 1
55 mins
Aren't these civil servants meant to be Top People? Why is their judgment so utterly shit?
He's toast.
State education is compulsory and includes those who go into unskilled jobs and no jobs, who would be unlikely to show up in any elite very often, whereas those who invest in private education would not do so for the same.
I'd say the practical par is about 25-30%. It's always going to be higher than the raw average rate, and is not a sign of discrimination.
It doesn't.
Tories will not be cheered by my view that, despite all that, NOM remains the value bet.
I think I might give it a try.
But he didn't. He chose to give an interview but was woefully unprepared for it. Or he thought the way he handled it was the right way to do it.
So he looks either incompetent or lacking in judgment.
But creating an idiom where the interviewee can, at best, draw, the whole thing stops being useful.
See also: BoJo ducking an Andrew Neil interview in 2019. A Bad Thing, but very rational from Bozza's point of view.