An MPs behaviour – now the main trigger for Westminster by-elections – politicalbetting.com

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Jesus, even the Lib Dems have jumped on the darts bandwagon.



https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1742310316484997409/photo/1

They've hit the bullseye there, tbf.

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Foxy said:

squareroot2 said:

Our experiences judge our mood. I have been in East Surrey hospital keeping an eye on a 94 yr old father in law who was on a trolley (along with about 40.others in corridors) from 10 am.Monday till 5pm yesterday when he had an endoscopy. At least he is now in a bed being properly cared for. God alone knows what it will be like going forward with junior doctors on strike. Here at least the law must be changed to stop health staff from striking and a national.formula for pay agreed. I was almost in tears for some of the mainly elderly there. There also needs to be an agreement for numbers of doctors and nurses in proportion to.population. it cannot go on like this.

The reason for the strikes is that the pay review board system is broken. I voted to accept the Consultants deal in part because it includes a commitment to reform the pay board.

No one is happy that the strikes are resuming, but there are no negotiations at the moment to stop them.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

TOPPING said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Jesus, even the Lib Dems have jumped on the darts bandwagon.



https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1742310316484997409/photo/1

The whole country is not gripped by darts fever. I know @kinabalu is a big fan but I am not and therefore I cancel out his vote. And not for the first time.

I'm afraid that anyone who isn't gripped by darts fever hates Britain and our values.

If a chubby teenager lobbing arrows in front of baying crowds of boozers in such a way that puts the Dutch right back in their box, doesn't stir your blood and stiffen your patriotic sinews, then you might as well just eff off.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Pulpstar said:

The Recall of MPs act 2015 has worked well.

Kind of, although the real proof it was working well would be that MPs weren't being recalled (or resigning in the face of recall).

Much like a good traffic enforcement camera is one that results in a lot of fines being issued, but a great one is one that results in no fines being issued, because it ends the activity it's targeting.

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

TOPPING said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

TOPPING said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Jesus, even the Lib Dems have jumped on the darts bandwagon.



https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1742310316484997409/photo/1

The whole country is not gripped by darts fever. I know @kinabalu is a big fan but I am not and therefore I cancel out his vote. And not for the first time.

I'm afraid that anyone who isn't gripped by darts fever hates Britain and our values.

If a chubby teenager lobbing arrows in front of baying crowds of boozers in such a way that puts the Dutch right back in their box, doesn't stir your blood and stiffen your patriotic sinews, then you might as well just eff off.

I'm quite partial to the odd game of pétanque, while sipping a pastis if that helps bolster my InnGerLund credentials.

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

19 years ago today, the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said it would be absolutely fine for Ukraine to join NATO
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1742270519972421750

#Putin said similar in 2002: “I am absolutely convinced that #Ukraine will not shy away from processes of expanding interaction with #NATO and Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO... At end of day the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine.”
https://twitter.com/steven_pifer/status/1742389514352656655

What changed is that the Ukrainian people kicked out his puppets.

The Iraq war probably didn’t help. Russia had significant interests in the region (still does, for that matter) that the US trampled on in the invasion. It did rather annoy Putin.

Other things changed too. In 2002 Russia was allied to NATO over the Afghan invasion and considered an ally in the ‘war on terror.’ That has to put it mildly changed somewhat.

But it’s also possible they said that knowing the Russian puppets would never sign up, so they could make the right noises and not actually have to follow through.

No, this is what precipitated everything, I think.

Ukraine's EU trade deal will be catastrophic, says Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/ukraine-european-union-trade-russia
..Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's former trade minister, gave Sergei Glazyev, adviser to President Vladimir Putin, a public dressing down in a discussion session during which the Kremlin man was faced with jeering and catcalls for demanding that Ukraine abandon the EU pact and turn to Russia. The minister said that it was the Kremlin's heavy-handed tactics and threats of a trade war that had made European integration inevitable.

"For the first time in our history more than 50% of people support European integration, and less than 30% of the people support closer ties with Russia," said Poroshenko. "Thank you very much for that Mr Glazyev."..

.."We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow...

"I don't want to blackmail you, but..."

That didn’t precipitate anything. They had already rigged the 2003 elections and when that didn’t quite work because of the courts ordering a rerun, tried to murder the opposition leader (fortunately for him the assassins concerned were almost as useless as those idiots Mishkin and Chepiga).

On the contrary, two months after that report, the president did as Russia demanded, and the Euromaidan happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Russia then followed through on its blackmail threats.
.. Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow..

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

19 years ago today, the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said it would be absolutely fine for Ukraine to join NATO
https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1742270519972421750

#Putin said similar in 2002: “I am absolutely convinced that #Ukraine will not shy away from processes of expanding interaction with #NATO and Western allies as a whole. Ukraine has its own relations with NATO... At end of day the decision is to be taken by NATO and Ukraine.”
https://twitter.com/steven_pifer/status/1742389514352656655

What changed is that the Ukrainian people kicked out his puppets.

The Iraq war probably didn’t help. Russia had significant interests in the region (still does, for that matter) that the US trampled on in the invasion. It did rather annoy Putin.

Other things changed too. In 2002 Russia was allied to NATO over the Afghan invasion and considered an ally in the ‘war on terror.’ That has to put it mildly changed somewhat.

But it’s also possible they said that knowing the Russian puppets would never sign up, so they could make the right noises and not actually have to follow through.

No, this is what precipitated everything, I think.

Ukraine's EU trade deal will be catastrophic, says Russia
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/22/ukraine-european-union-trade-russia
..Petro Poroshenko, Ukraine's former trade minister, gave Sergei Glazyev, adviser to President Vladimir Putin, a public dressing down in a discussion session during which the Kremlin man was faced with jeering and catcalls for demanding that Ukraine abandon the EU pact and turn to Russia. The minister said that it was the Kremlin's heavy-handed tactics and threats of a trade war that had made European integration inevitable.

"For the first time in our history more than 50% of people support European integration, and less than 30% of the people support closer ties with Russia," said Poroshenko. "Thank you very much for that Mr Glazyev."..

.."We don't want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. "But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia." When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow...

"I don't want to blackmail you, but..."

That didn’t precipitate anything. They had already rigged the 2003 elections and when that didn’t quite work because of the courts ordering a rerun, tried to murder the opposition leader (fortunately for him the assassins concerned were almost as useless as those idiots Mishkin and Chepiga).

On the contrary, two months after that report, the president did as Russia demanded, and the Euromaidan happened.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

Russia then followed through on its blackmail threats.
.. Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine's status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow..

Sorry, I wasn't clear - my point is they had already been doing many of these things. So the 2013 interference did not 'precipitate' Russia's interference. Instead, it moved it to a new and dramatic phase, starting with the seizure of Crimea, including the invasion of the Donbas and finally the overall invasion two years ago.

bondegezou said:

.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Pulpstar said:

The Recall of MPs act 2015 has worked well.

Kind of, although the real proof it was working well would be that MPs weren't being recalled (or resigning in the face of recall).

Much like a good traffic enforcement camera is one that results in a lot of fines being issued, but a great one is one that results in no fines being issued, because it ends the activity it's targeting.

Four MPs have resigned in the face of a recall petition.

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

Jonathan said:

Alanbrooke said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Our experiences judge our mood. I have been in East Surrey hospital keeping an eye on a 94 yr old father in law who was on a trolley (along with about 40.others in corridors) from 10 am.Monday till 5pm yesterday when he had an endoscopy. At least he is now in a bed being properly cared for. God alone knows what it will be like going forward with junior doctors on strike. Here at least the law must be changed to stop health staff from striking and a national.formula for pay agreed. I was almost in tears for some of the mainly elderly there. There also needs to be an agreement for numbers of doctors and nurses in proportion to.population. it cannot go on like this.

Direct your ire at number 10 where it belongs. This is a direct result of 13 years of Conservative government. If you want change you know what to do.

What ?

SKS is no different than Sunak.

Not that old cchq bunker spin again. Last refuge.

No they are not the same. Did you see the waiting list chart over successive Labour and Tory governments? A very stark difference. If you care about NHS waiting lists you know what to do.

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

Casino_Royale said:

Mexicanpete said:

Casino_Royale said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

I don't think it is, but they want to be seen to be.

What does that even mean?

Defeated Remainers seldom mention Brexit until someone like @Alanbrooke decides to rub our faces in it, like today for example.

Exactly. You don't mention it anymore but play your role when someone else does.

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

Do you are saying that an Ugandan was demanding access to an Ugandan discussion?

noneoftheabove said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

I'm not quite sure what lived experience means that experience doesn't cover.

All experience is lived. That's what experience means.

Perfectly clear what it means in this context to me. The country as a whole is experiencing one thing, each individual may be experiencing something opposite or just different to the collective.

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

I'm not quite sure what lived experience means that experience doesn't cover.

All experience is lived. That's what experience means.

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

I'm not quite sure what lived experience means that experience doesn't cover.

All experience is lived. That's what experience means.

I think it is meant to capture specifically things that a person may experience themselves directly. Eg someone whose family member has cancer has experience of cancer but only someone who has had cancer themselves has lived experience of cancer. That kind of thing. As I understand it it is designed to remove any potential ambiguities around the word experience to make it clear that we are talking about direct, lived, experience.

Casino_Royale said:

Mexicanpete said:

Casino_Royale said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

I don't think it is, but they want to be seen to be.

What does that even mean?

Defeated Remainers seldom mention Brexit until someone like @Alanbrooke decides to rub our faces in it, like today for example.

Exactly. You don't mention it anymore but play your role when someone else does.

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

Andy_JS said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Sean_F said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

Alanbrooke said:

Foxy said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

I am fine with it, Brexit has benefitted me personally, see my post at 7.47 which shows where the country is.

LOL, I have many friends in your position, they all claim they are doing well out of Brexit even though they voted Remain. But theyre still having a sulk because they called it wrong.

That's one of the great paradoxes of Brexit. The dynamic metropolises of Remania have economically adjusted, the backwaters of Leaverstan further degrade.

Real wages are actually growing and we have nearly full employment. The doom laden scenarios are nowhere to be seen. Manufacturing has even improved its position by overtaking France. Most of the UKs weaknesses are self inflicted and could have been sorted out in the EU, but none of the UK parties wanted to tackle them.

Really - I know the wages of no member of my family (either immediate or second level) have increased by above inflation.

And looking at the very large dataset I have for other people - nope I don’t see it, except at the very bottom of the market where I can see another large pay rise coming in April because the agencies legally need to pay it

And this is the Tory problem. They just keep saying things which are visibly and tangibly untrue to people's lived experiences.

A local example up here: fishing. According to the fishing community, Brexit has been bad. Things are much harder than they were both for the people catching the fish and for those processing them.

But the Tories are claiming a bonanza, with statistics showing that catches and revenue are up.

So on one hand we have fishermen saying revenues are down, and Tories saying revenue is up...

DOWN: https://www.barrons.com/news/scottish-port-feels-force-of-uk-fishing-storm-9a10e73e
UP: https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/6313076/tories-claim-bigger-earnings-add-up-to-brexit-boost-for-scottish-fishing/

Everyone’s lived experience is different. I’ve never been more comfortable in financial terms. That will be true of a large number of people.

Not that it will save the government.

I'm not quite sure what lived experience means that experience doesn't cover.

All experience is lived. That's what experience means.

I think it is meant to capture specifically things that a person may experience themselves directly. Eg someone whose family member has cancer has experience of cancer but only someone who has had cancer themselves has lived experience of cancer. That kind of thing. As I understand it it is designed to remove any potential ambiguities around the word experience to make it clear that we are talking about direct, lived, experience.

Experience means the same thing. Experience and direct experience are one and the same. Indirect experience doesn't exist.

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

We can most of us do this, you know. We just don't after turning 15.

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

This is the entirety of the woke debate.
I think this
I am right
Other people are wrong
Anyone who thinks they are right and I am wrong are woke

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

This is the entirety of the woke debate.
I think this
I am right
Other people are wrong
Anyone who thinks they are right and I am wrong are woke

No, that is not the "entirety of the woke debate"

You surely know this, so why trot out this gibberish?

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

Well, that's one issue. It wasn't really why I was conflicted though...

It is coz it's a (very lame) Holocaust joke?

Is the Holocaust not joke-about-able?

A sincere question. I confess mixed feelings. A good Holocaust joke (ike the famous Bernard Manning one about the watchtower (or was it Jerry Sadowitz??) can be properly funny - as we have discussed on here. But they still feel taboo. Perhaps that is WHY they can be truly funny

Yes, they can. David Baddiel told one once which went something like this (I'm probably about to mangle it so apologies if so; you'll get the gist) -

A survivor arrives in Heaven and tells god a Holocaust joke. God replies "that's not funny", to which the survivor replies "ach, I suppose you had to be there".

That IS a good joke - quite profound - but I thought the creator was Ricky Gervais?

I remember Baddiel telling the joke; I don't recall if he was the author - he may well have given attribution elsewhere if that was the case. It may well have been out of Jews Don't Count or related writing rather than his own comedy.

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

Well, that's one issue. It wasn't really why I was conflicted though...

It is coz it's a (very lame) Holocaust joke?

Is the Holocaust not joke-about-able?

A sincere question. I confess mixed feelings. A good Holocaust joke (ike the famous Bernard Manning one about the watchtower (or was it Jerry Sadowitz??) can be properly funny - as we have discussed on here. But they still feel taboo. Perhaps that is WHY they can be truly funny

Yes, they can. David Baddiel told one once which went something like this (I'm probably about to mangle it so apologies if so; you'll get the gist) -

A survivor arrives in Heaven and tells god a Holocaust joke. God replies "that's not funny", to which the survivor replies "ach, I suppose you had to be there".

That IS a good joke - quite profound - but I thought the creator was Ricky Gervais?

I remember Baddiel telling the joke; I don't recall if he was the author - he may well have given attribution elsewhere if that was the case. It could have been out of Jews Don't Count or related writing rather than his own comedy.

Malmesbury said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

Well, that's one issue. It wasn't really why I was conflicted though...

It is coz it's a (very lame) Holocaust joke?

Is the Holocaust not joke-about-able?

A sincere question. I confess mixed feelings. A good Holocaust joke (ike the famous Bernard Manning one about the watchtower (or was it Jerry Sadowitz??) can be properly funny - as we have discussed on here. But they still feel taboo. Perhaps that is WHY they can be truly funny

Yes, they can. David Baddiel told one once which went something like this (I'm probably about to mangle it so apologies if so; you'll get the gist) -

A survivor arrives in Heaven and tells god a Holocaust joke. God replies "that's not funny", to which the survivor replies "ach, I suppose you had to be there".

That IS a good joke - quite profound - but I thought the creator was Ricky Gervais?

I remember Baddiel telling the joke; I don't recall if he was the author - he may well have given attribution elsewhere if that was the case. It could have been out of Jews Don't Count or related writing rather than his own comedy.

It’s almost as old as the watchtower one. Which was told to me a teenager by the Chief Rabbi of Northern Ireland.

Who also commented on why NI was so safe for Jews.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Malmesbury said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

Well, that's one issue. It wasn't really why I was conflicted though...

It is coz it's a (very lame) Holocaust joke?

Is the Holocaust not joke-about-able?

A sincere question. I confess mixed feelings. A good Holocaust joke (ike the famous Bernard Manning one about the watchtower (or was it Jerry Sadowitz??) can be properly funny - as we have discussed on here. But they still feel taboo. Perhaps that is WHY they can be truly funny

Yes, they can. David Baddiel told one once which went something like this (I'm probably about to mangle it so apologies if so; you'll get the gist) -

A survivor arrives in Heaven and tells god a Holocaust joke. God replies "that's not funny", to which the survivor replies "ach, I suppose you had to be there".

That IS a good joke - quite profound - but I thought the creator was Ricky Gervais?

I remember Baddiel telling the joke; I don't recall if he was the author - he may well have given attribution elsewhere if that was the case. It could have been out of Jews Don't Count or related writing rather than his own comedy.

It’s almost as old as the watchtower one. Which was told to me a teenager by the Chief Rabbi of Northern Ireland.

Who also commented on why NI was so safe for Jews.

Because everyone already had someone else to hate?

Foxy said:

squareroot2 said:

Our experiences judge our mood. I have been in East Surrey hospital keeping an eye on a 94 yr old father in law who was on a trolley (along with about 40.others in corridors) from 10 am.Monday till 5pm yesterday when he had an endoscopy. At least he is now in a bed being properly cared for. God alone knows what it will be like going forward with junior doctors on strike. Here at least the law must be changed to stop health staff from striking and a national.formula for pay agreed. I was almost in tears for some of the mainly elderly there. There also needs to be an agreement for numbers of doctors and nurses in proportion to.population. it cannot go on like this.

The reason for the strikes is that the pay review board system is broken. I voted to accept the Consultants deal in part because it includes a commitment to reform the pay board.

No one is happy that the strikes are resuming, but there are no negotiations at the moment to stop them.

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

Malmesbury said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

david_herdson said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Leon said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

And they say it's Americans who are litigious.

HIGHLIGHT OF YEAR: This Guy was removed from a WhatsApp group, he went and got a court order to be added back. They added him back and made him administrator then one by one left the group and created a new one. He is now heading back to court to get the members back on his WhatsApp group like the beginning.
https://twitter.com/IamMzilikazi/status/1741107391591055432

The Ugandans? Ken ya believe it?

What was the Nazi solution to the Jewish problem when they ran out of Carbon Monoxide lorries?

Made A Gas Car

Too soon?

I honestly don't know how to react to that.

It's just a really bad pun ?

Well, that's one issue. It wasn't really why I was conflicted though...

It is coz it's a (very lame) Holocaust joke?

Is the Holocaust not joke-about-able?

A sincere question. I confess mixed feelings. A good Holocaust joke (ike the famous Bernard Manning one about the watchtower (or was it Jerry Sadowitz??) can be properly funny - as we have discussed on here. But they still feel taboo. Perhaps that is WHY they can be truly funny

Yes, they can. David Baddiel told one once which went something like this (I'm probably about to mangle it so apologies if so; you'll get the gist) -

A survivor arrives in Heaven and tells god a Holocaust joke. God replies "that's not funny", to which the survivor replies "ach, I suppose you had to be there".

That IS a good joke - quite profound - but I thought the creator was Ricky Gervais?

I remember Baddiel telling the joke; I don't recall if he was the author - he may well have given attribution elsewhere if that was the case. It could have been out of Jews Don't Count or related writing rather than his own comedy.

It’s almost as old as the watchtower one. Which was told to me a teenager by the Chief Rabbi of Northern Ireland.

Who also commented on why NI was so safe for Jews.

Yes, but was he a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew? (To steal another old joke).

bondegezou said:

Malmesbury said:

Taz said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

This is the entirety of the woke debate.
I think this
I am right
Other people are wrong
Anyone who thinks they are right and I am wrong are woke

No, that is not the "entirety of the woke debate"

You surely know this, so why trot out this gibberish?

The BBC has an interesting take on the dismissal/resignation of Claudine Gay from Harvard after the scandalous testimony then plagiarism.

Basically it’s all down to the far right, Trump and pandering to fascists. Including a quote from someone giving that view.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67869624

BBC journalism is astonishingly poor and somewhat partisan.

The response in Germany to a scandal where a number of politicians were discovered to have plagiarised their theses was interesting.

A journalist realised that you could have a lot of fun by downloading the theses of various people and running them through a plagiarism
detector.

A number of universities sequestered the theses of “notable” people, in response.

The plagiarism criticisms of Gay that I've seen were pretty trivial stuff, blown out of all proportion. There were, of course, other criticisms of Gay that are of more significance.

squareroot2 said:

Jonathan said:

squareroot2 said:

Our experiences judge our mood. I have been in East Surrey hospital keeping an eye on a 94 yr old father in law who was on a trolley (along with about 40.others in corridors) from 10 am.Monday till 5pm yesterday when he had an endoscopy. At least he is now in a bed being properly cared for. God alone knows what it will be like going forward with junior doctors on strike. Here at least the law must be changed to stop health staff from striking and a national.formula for pay agreed. I was almost in tears for some of the mainly elderly there. There also needs to be an agreement for numbers of doctors and nurses in proportion to.population. it cannot go on like this.

Direct your ire at number 10 where it belongs. This is a direct result of 13 years of Conservative government. If you want change you know what to do.

It goes back longer than tgst with the disastrous agreement by Gordon McDoom to allow GPs to give up nights and weekends. A and E has been a jam ever since. Its NOT always the Tories though they have a lot to answer for.
There should be a deal with Doctors that they pay no tuition fees but can't go abroad for x yrs after qualifying.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

bondegezou said:

Malmesbury said:

Taz said:

Leon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

This is the entirety of the woke debate.
I think this
I am right
Other people are wrong
Anyone who thinks they are right and I am wrong are woke

No, that is not the "entirety of the woke debate"

You surely know this, so why trot out this gibberish?

The BBC has an interesting take on the dismissal/resignation of Claudine Gay from Harvard after the scandalous testimony then plagiarism.

Basically it’s all down to the far right, Trump and pandering to fascists. Including a quote from someone giving that view.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67869624

BBC journalism is astonishingly poor and somewhat partisan.

The response in Germany to a scandal where a number of politicians were discovered to have plagiarised their theses was interesting.

A journalist realised that you could have a lot of fun by downloading the theses of various people and running them through a plagiarism
detector.

A number of universities sequestered the theses of “notable” people, in response.

The plagiarism criticisms of Gay that I've seen were pretty trivial stuff, blown out of all proportion. There were, of course, other criticisms of Gay that are of more significance.

A, lot of "plagiarism" in academia is just careless footnoting. Any academic work typically, by convention, has to include a summary of the existing literature and debate, which by definition is not original work. Cribbing parts of that from an existing review article and failing to fully credit that is not a crime IMHO. Passing off someone else's original contribution as one's own is quite different. I've not seen the details of the criticism of Gay but it certainly, from a distance, has more than a whiff of a witch hunt about it.

david_herdson said:

Stuartinromford said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TOPPING said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Alanbrooke said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Can anybody explain why PB and the country seem obsessed with a pub game at this time of the year?

Why not shove ha'penny or Scottish football if we're obsessing about pub games/pub leagues?

Can anyone explain why half the country is still obsessed with a vote 8 years ago ?

Because most of the country thinks it has turned out shit?

They want to flush that great Brexit turd.

You see youre obsessed.

Why not just chill out and come to terms with it.

So if Lab wins the next election the country should just call it a day and say well that's that done with and settle down to a Lab govt for the next 50 years.

Is that how you are saying democracy should operate.

Youre mixing up a referndum with a parliamentary election. I'd say give it a generation same as Indyref.

You'd say, would you? Good to know. Meanwhile taking back control surely means nothing unless it means giving the people the opportunity to vote in line with their beliefs. A "generation" is just wishful thinking.

Who's stopping you voting in line with your beliefs ?

No one. That is my point. In 2017 people voted in line with their beliefs and had there been a second referendum, apart from being impractical and an administrative nightmare, it would have been a perfect example of democracy in action.

It would have been a democratic outrage, it would have smashed public consensus to pieces, half the country would have abstained in the fraudulent second referendum - leaving us where, exactly.: still inside Europe on a 40% turnout without ever having enacted the Leave vote? Imagine the aftermath of THAT. The urgent, militant calls for a THIRD vote, and so on, and so on: a pure, unending nightmare

AND it might well have caused severe civil unrest (if they can ignore your vote, what is left but violence?) and it would have destroyed British democracy for two generations, as people abandoned voting in elections as well (again, what is the point if your vote can be flatly ignored or overruled?)

Other than that, a 2nd referendum was a great idea

We are certainly not going to spend the day discussing this so I will help out with the last word on the matter.

In 2017 the UK electorate (me, you, a few others) voted in a parliament that was divided on the matter. Hence the subsequent chaos was voted for directly by us. Perfectly democratic. If Lab had gained power on the promise of a second referendum then that again would have been perfectly democratic. As would the second referendum. If you are saying votes by the UK public do not constitute democracy then I'm not quite sure why you are qualified to post on this site and perhaps you should stick to the Knappers' Gazette which, I am told, pays you for your efforts.

As David Davis put it,

If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.


https://www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-mp-delivers-speech-on-the-opportunities-for-a-referendum-on-europe/

If the mind of the majority is to reverse Brexit, that will be the democratic thing to do. That wasn't the case in 2017-9, and I'm not sure it's the case now. It may never be the case, but every "oh, you'll never get support for that" barrier is being crossed, one at a time.

Don't worry, Leon. You'll still go down in history.

There are five stages to a fair democratic process. You need a 'yes' to all five for democracy to take place.

1. Can candidates, electors and parties register fairly and freely, without undue impediment?
2. Can candidates and parties campaign fairly, with reasonable access to the media and the public?
3. Can voters cast their votes equitably and in a simple and timely manner?
4. Are votes counted speedily and the result declared accurately?
5. Is the result implemented?

A second referendum before the first was implemented - other than on the nature of what Brexit would be - would have violated the fifth condition. Once Britain voted to leave, it was necessary that we left to complete that democratic exercise. Now we have left, that mandate is expired and if people want to rejoin that's an entirely legitimate campaign for them to engage in.

But not carrying out Brexit would have been like holding a general election, not changing the govt after it lost, and holding a second election instead.