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Sunak’s ratings hit a new low – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,610
edited December 2023 in General
Sunak’s ratings hit a new low – politicalbetting.com

Rishi Sunak's net favourability rating slips to a new low of -49 (fieldwork 11-12 Dec)Favourable: 21% (-5 from 28-29 Nov)Unfavourable: 70% (+5)https://t.co/nU5Ha277UU pic.twitter.com/a3I4BwIz7B

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    Test to see if the comments work?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    I still can't see Truss's line without a bit of a smile.

    Say what you like, she wasn't dull, was she? The rapidly descending lightning bolt of British PMs.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,387
    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,284
    We don't like our leaders much, it seems.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    I am too upset to do a thread on that.

    Like Dave, he will return.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,863
    On topic - I suspect Rishi is a drag on the party - problem is no one else will be any better because while they may encourage a particular set of voters to vote Tory they will discourage another set
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,450
    edited December 2023
    [delete: person may have been being sarcastic]
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,387
    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    What a churlish question. Look, you may have beef with the man. But, in years to come, entire generations will be defined as "Thatcher's children", "Blair's children" and "Drakeford's children". That's the simple fact of it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?
    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    Maybe IF you're a Welsh speed bump?
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Indeed, he is Wales very own Mandela.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    edited December 2023
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    What a churlish question. Look, you may have beef with the man. But, in years to come, entire generations will be defined as "Thatcher's children", "Blair's children" and "Drakeford's children". That's the simple fact of it.
    Does he have a rather active libido ?

    Respect to him if that is the case. He looks quite mild mannered.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,342
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    What a churlish question. Look, you may have beef with the man. But, in years to come, entire generations will be defined as "Thatcher's children", "Blair's children" and "Drakeford's children". That's the simple fact of it.
    Why? Are you serious?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,387
    viewcode said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    • Margaret Thatcher: converted the UK from a heavy industry country reliant on coal and steel, to a light industry economy, fought and won a major war
    • Tony Blair: Changed the socal stance of the UK, sustained the NHS, tried to keep the West together, fought and won a major war
    • Mark Drakeford: Imposed a 20mph limit
    Spot the odd-one-out
    I think you're being a bit unfair on Tony there. Okay, his CV's relatively light, but "odd one out"? Hardly.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited December 2023
    Selebian said:

    I still can't see Truss's line without a bit of a smile.

    Say what you like, she wasn't dull, was she? The rapidly descending lightning bolt of British PMs.

    More like LTxPM was/is the Poster Child for the smack (or lash) of infirm government.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    Goodbye Rw bill Tuesday
    Who would stake their name on you
    Made to change with every new day
    No one's gonna miss you
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    edited December 2023
    Taz said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Indeed, he is Wales very own Mandela.
    Winnie Mandela!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    edited December 2023
    Can we expect a Popularity of the Prime Minister (for the Time Being) Bill to be put before parliament in the new year?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,784
    Selebian said:

    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.

    The public barely knows him. This is hardly surprising. UK Politics has been dominated for a long time now by some extraordinary characters and events. Starmer simply isn't news. i bet most voters couldn't name him if shown his photo.

    That of course will change during a GE campaign. That may not help him, but I don't see it hindering him much. I think he is fortunate to be out of the spotlight until then.

    His opponents are doing a great job of making him electable.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,284
    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    He was the Caesar of our times.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    I am too upset to do a thread on that.

    Like Dave, he will return.
    Does Wales have a Foreign Secretary? Or will he be Starmer's FS? Poor Lammy :disappointed:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    Chris said:

    Can we expect a Popularity of the Prime Minister (for the Time Being) Bill to be put before parliament in the new year?

    2 Popularity of the Prime Minister (for the Time Being)
    (1) Every opinion former must conclusively treat the Prime Minister of the United KIngdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (for the Time Being) as a popular politician.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,682
    edited December 2023
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    What a churlish question. Look, you may have beef with the man. But, in years to come, entire generations will be defined as "Thatcher's children", "Blair's children" and "Drakeford's children". That's the simple fact of it.
    His friend Betsi Cadwaladr is regarded as a mass murderer up north.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,427
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Selebian said:

    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.

    The public barely knows him. This is hardly surprising. UK Politics has been dominated for a long time now by some extraordinary characters and events. Starmer simply isn't news. i bet most voters couldn't name him if shown his photo.

    That of course will change during a GE campaign. That may not help him, but I don't see it hindering him much. I think he is fortunate to be out of the spotlight until then.

    His opponents are doing a great job of making him electable.

    Starmer has been very wooden at PMQS against Sunak, but over the last three weeks he has trounced the PM.

    He cleverly (no not that one) finished his sixth question with a conciliatory festive question, knowing Sunak would spit back a vengeful retort, when all Sunak had to do was say "yes" and sit down.

    If Sunak was holding a firearm at PMQs, after the fifth question he would have shot Starmer clean between the eyes. The PM was that angry.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    I’m not even sure Drakeford has been the most impactful First Minister. Rhodri Morgan, anyone?

    Extending to devolved nations, I’d put Drakeford below Sturgeon and Salmond, Paisley, Trimble and even Foster.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    Watch out. Expressing a rational opinion about anything connected to Elon Musk will have you marked down as a Putinist fellow traveller.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,076
    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    This is probably ironic, but anyway, Drakeford is a good example of the sort of politician who, unless his life affects you directly, and for that you really have to live in Wales and be an anorak, rises and falls without trace. Up there with the minister for pensions in Slovenia, the minister for war in Ireland, Stephen Barclay and so on.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,991
    Mexicanpete said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Selebian said:

    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.

    The public barely knows him. This is hardly surprising. UK Politics has been dominated for a long time now by some extraordinary characters and events. Starmer simply isn't news. i bet most voters couldn't name him if shown his photo.

    That of course will change during a GE campaign. That may not help him, but I don't see it hindering him much. I think he is fortunate to be out of the spotlight until then.

    His opponents are doing a great job of making him electable.

    Starmer has been very wooden at PMQS against Sunak, but over the last three weeks he has trounced the PM.

    He cleverly (no not that one) finished his sixth question with a conciliatory festive question, knowing Sunak would spit back a vengeful retort, when all Sunak had to do was say "yes" and sit down.

    If Sunak was holding a firearm at PMQs, after the fifth question he would have shot Starmer clean between the eyes. The PM was that angry.
    Yes, it wasn't a good look. Starmer showed some lightness of touch and festive spirit today; Sunak spat it back in his face. And Starmer's yarn about a homeless lad at Xmas elicited no sympathy from Sunak, just a torrent of invective about house-building.

    Sunak's really got quite a short fuse, which I suspect does not bode well for him in the heat of a GE campaign.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,991
    algarkirk said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    This is probably ironic, but anyway, Drakeford is a good example of the sort of politician who, unless his life affects you directly, and for that you really have to live in Wales and be an anorak, rises and falls without trace. Up there with the minister for pensions in Slovenia, the minister for war in Ireland, Stephen Barclay and so on.
    Minister for the Swiss navy.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    Tesla recall affects models built from 2012.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,076
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Can we expect a Popularity of the Prime Minister (for the Time Being) Bill to be put before parliament in the new year?

    2 Popularity of the Prime Minister (for the Time Being)
    (1) Every opinion former must conclusively treat the Prime Minister of the United KIngdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (for the Time Being) as a popular politician.
    This drafting is insufficient to oust the jurisdiction of the courts. See Privacy International v IPT and others SC 2019.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,784
    Gardenwalker said:

    I’m not even sure Drakeford has been the most impactful First Minister. Rhodri Morgan, anyone?

    Extending to devolved nations, I’d put Drakeford below Sturgeon and Salmond, Paisley, Trimble and even Foster.

    Wasn't Ron Davies 'impactful', in his own way?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,443
    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    The problem is the real 'recall' might be to actually bring all the cars in and fit them with LIDAR and other sensors/processing systems. Tesla are gambling a great deal on the idea that their existing hardware will be able to fulfil the technical debt they've taken on.

    What's more: this 'recall' is an indication they've pushed the 'progress' pedal too strongly, and they're having to brake a little. As predicted, the two different routes towards autonomous driving are converging...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?


    Maybe IF you're a Welsh speed bump?

    Yours truly wishes to affirm that by "Welsh speed bump" I was NOT referring to Big G!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Pro_Rata said:

    Goodbye Rw bill Tuesday
    Who would stake their name on you
    Made to change with every new day
    No one's gonna miss you

    She would never say where she came from
    So that there's no chance of deportation
    Does she have the right
    To come in on that flight?
    No one knows
    She comes and goes
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,632
    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    My MS windows was recalled earlier today, and last week, and the week before last…
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,925
    Sean_F said:

    Gardenwalker said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?
    He was the Caesar of our times.
    2023 had the biopic movies Napoleon & Oppenheimer.

    How much will "I, Drakeford" gross at the box office. Surely the biggest movie of all time just waiting to be made.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    RobD said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    My MS windows was recalled earlier today, and last week, and the week before last…
    Memory problems?

  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    williamglenn said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Goodbye Rw bill Tuesday
    Who would stake their name on you
    Made to change with every new day
    No one's gonna miss you

    She would never say where she came from
    So that there's no chance of deportation
    Does she have the right
    To come in on that flight?
    No one knows
    She comes and goes
    "Goodbye, Suella Braverman ..."
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,450
    Sean_F said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    He was the Caesar of our times.
    He was a honorary member of the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

    Which made him a Caesar SLD.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,303
    edited December 2023
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:


    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?

    Maybe IF you're a Welsh speed bump?

    Yours truly wishes to affirm that by "Welsh speed bump" I was NOT referring to Big G!

    I would just say the drop in his and labour's poll ratings in Wales coincides with his blanket change in 30mph to 20mph across Wales, which is hugely unpopular and a demonstration to all politicians how not to implement a policy that has many good features

    It is widely accepted 20mph zones are sensible around schools, hospitals, and specific residential areas which we already had, but in my 58 years living in Wales I cannot recall such an unpopular policy as Drakeford's national change from 30mph to 20mph
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,700
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    SirNorfolkPassmore said:

    I can't believe there is no thread on Drakeford.

    It's quite a moment. As with Thatcher and later Blair going, whatever your views on the individuals, these were epoch-defining characters who changed politics and the nation for better or worse.

    He was the Caesar of our times.
    He was a honorary member of the Scottish Liberal Democrats.

    Which made him a Caesar SLD.

    Was that the honour bestowed by Cole's law?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,784
    edited December 2023
    Northern_Al said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Selebian said:

    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.

    The public barely knows him. This is hardly surprising. UK Politics has been dominated for a long time now by some extraordinary characters and events. Starmer simply isn't news. i bet most voters couldn't name him if shown his photo.

    That of course will change during a GE campaign. That may not help him, but I don't see it hindering him much. I think he is fortunate to be out of the spotlight until then.

    His opponents are doing a great job of making him electable.

    Starmer has been very wooden at PMQS against Sunak, but over the last three weeks he has trounced the PM.

    He cleverly (no not that one) finished his sixth question with a conciliatory festive question, knowing Sunak would spit back a vengeful retort, when all Sunak had to do was say "yes" and sit down.

    If Sunak was holding a firearm at PMQs, after the fifth question he would have shot Starmer clean between the eyes. The PM was that angry.
    Yes, it wasn't a good look. Starmer showed some lightness of touch and festive spirit today; Sunak spat it back in his face. And Starmer's yarn about a homeless lad at Xmas elicited no sympathy from Sunak, just a torrent of invective about house-building.

    Sunak's really got quite a short fuse, which I suspect does not bode well for him in the heat of a GE campaign.
    It's only nerds like us that even look at PMQs. They are irrelevant as far as the Great Voting Public is concerned. Nevertheless they do suggest that in the heat of a GE campaign, Sunak is more likely than SKS to have a meltdown.

    You would think that Starmer is better equiped professionally and politically to deal with head-to-heads during the campaign too, and it's not as if he has to knock the PM out to win.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    Is it all to do with the 'twenty's plenty' policy, or do the spectacular outcomes in health and education have any bearing on DuckDuckGo?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    edited December 2023
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:


    Sorry?
    In what way is Drakeford an “epoch-defining” character?

    Labour may poll a lower percentage in Wales than in the UK as a whole at the next general election. I don't know if that has happened before.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    I don't believe Rochdale is a Tory. And so far as I'm aware those on pb most irate at him aren't Tories either.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,251
    Sean_F said:

    We don't like our leaders much, it seems.

    Do our leaders like us? They've just finished having a global jamboree to organise a vast transfer of wealth from working people to the governing class under the guise of averting a global catastrophe. Why should people 'like' anyone who solemnly opines that we all need to 'share the burden' of decarbonisation, and lets old ladies shiver whilst their own heating and lighting is paid for by those same taxpayers. People are going to realise how gamey it all is, whether anyone is articulating it successfully at present or not.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,251
    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Where to start with this.
  • mickydroymickydroy Posts: 316
    FrankBooth said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    I don't believe Rochdale is a Tory. And so far as I'm aware those on pb most irate at him aren't Tories either.
    I'm afraid to say, that not all, but most Tories, I know especially the golf club types, are racist in some way or another, pretty sure in the wrong crowd, they would come out with some pretty unsavoury stuff, it is obvious that is why he is so unpopular amongst Tory voters, it doesn't matter who is leading them, I won't be voting for them, but surely Sunak is better than his predecessors
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    JosiasJessop said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    The problem is the real 'recall' might be to actually bring all the cars in and fit them with LIDAR and other sensors/processing systems. Tesla are gambling a great deal on the idea that their existing hardware will be able to fulfil the technical debt they've taken on.

    What's more: this 'recall' is an indication they've pushed the 'progress' pedal too strongly, and they're having to brake a little. As predicted, the two different routes towards autonomous driving are converging...
    As they are doing a patch on vehicles from 2012, most of those are already fitted with the physical sensors. Its only recently they hav dropped these in favour of cameras and AI.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Where to start with this.
    I mean when it came to Dave and Theresa May they were accused of betrayal by some Brexiteers.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,187
    Vote Tory to prove you're not a racist
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    That would be the same racists who want to replace Sunak with Braverman or Badenoch.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    PB contributors may remember that I have been an open advocate of Sunak. I liked his economic interventions at the start of Covid. I thought his self-promotion was quite clever. I met him and found him to be entirely personable.

    His decline from those heights to what we see now is pitiful. What does his ethnicity have to do with anything - that hasn't changed since I sang his praises on here. What has changed is that he has been promoted PM and is fucking useless at it.

    He is going to need to hide in a Boris fridge for the entire campaign. Any time anyone challenges him he gets angry and increasingly petulant. Not a good look.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    FrankBooth said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    I don't believe Rochdale is a Tory. And so far as I'm aware those on pb most irate at him aren't Tories either.
    Are you distinguishing people being "irate" from people just thinking he is hopeless, though?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    'Nightly fights' between migrants at asylum centre

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cekp9elx7j7o

    A migrant staying at the Wethersfield asylum centre in north Essex says there is “almost nightly fighting” between different nationalities.

    The BBC has seen video footage that appeared to show a fight involving several men in a canteen where chairs were thrown and one man had a bloodied face.

    The asylum seeker, whose identity we are protecting, says the asylum centre on the former military base “has many, many problems".

    He told the BBC there was “almost nightly fighting with another nationality, because the number of people is many”.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    Meanwhile. Client needs to put UK address on everything it imports from 31st January. About to print reams of stickers for an EU factory. "address format is wrong" i point out, substituting the correct address.

    We need to use the wrong address format (no postal town FFS) apparently to be consistent. Yes, consistently wrong. Is an incomplete address accepted as an address by customs assholes?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,811
    The unkindest cut of all.

    A worse approval rating than Suella....
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Disappointment, I'd say.

    I didn't have high hopes for Sunak, but he's still surprised on the down side. That probably makes many of us exaggerate just how shit he is, as we're disappointed.

    All politicians disappoint to some extent, I guess, but in my politically aware memory it goes something like this:
    • Major - out of his depth, but that was partly because the Tories were a chasm of shit at the time, so not really disappointing and he did many good things
    • Blair - disappointing over Iraq and some still feel this very keenly, harshly critised for that
    • Brown - performed more or less as expected, I guess
    • Cameron - likewise, brought at least a veneer of modernity and liberalism to the Tory party
    • May - disappointed some, was also severely criticised
    • Johnson - delivered more or less as expected, I guess - had people thought he had honour you'd have seen more vitriol over partygate etc
    • Truss - also performed more or less as expected :lol:
    • Sunak - he was doomed, but we thought he might have some dull managerial competence and maybe some decency - projection maybe; present complete shit show is below expectations
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,091
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    That would be the same racists who want to replace Sunak with Braverman or Badenoch.
    I'd say it was fairly obvious that those who just disagree with him about politics and aren't racist will not hate him as much as the ones who both disagree with him about politics and are racist!

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    Selebian said:

    I still can't see Truss's line without a bit of a smile.

    Say what you like, she wasn't dull, was she? The rapidly descending lightning bolt of British PMs.

    More like LTxPM was/is the Poster Child for the smack (or lash) of infirm government.
    Liz Truss? Smack? Lash? Ooh-er! Hope Leon didn't see that or he'll get overexcited :open_mouth:
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    edited December 2023
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    Our oldest son, in the sprit of the season, asked our (younger than him - pre-school) daughter if she knew what Jesus was. Yes, she replied, it's a word grown ups use when they're cross.

    (We have since attempted to moderate our taking of the Lord's* name in vain within the household)

    *is it still taking the Lord's name in vain, what with the holy trinity etc - Jesus is also the Lord?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,565
    williamglenn said:

    'Nightly fights' between migrants at asylum centre

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cekp9elx7j7o

    A migrant staying at the Wethersfield asylum centre in north Essex says there is “almost nightly fighting” between different nationalities.

    The BBC has seen video footage that appeared to show a fight involving several men in a canteen where chairs were thrown and one man had a bloodied face.

    The asylum seeker, whose identity we are protecting, says the asylum centre on the former military base “has many, many problems".

    He told the BBC there was “almost nightly fighting with another nationality, because the number of people is many”.

    Need to get Elton down there to teach them the rules on permitted fighting days.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    Selebian said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Jesus fucking Christ.
    Our oldest son, in the sprit of the season, asked our (younger than him - pre-school) daughter if she knew what Jesus was. Yes, she replied, it's a word grown ups use when they're cross.

    (We have since attempted to moderate our taking of the Lord's* name in vain within the household)

    *is it still taking the Lord's name in vain, what with the holy trinity etc - Jesus is also the Lord?
    Out of the mouth of babes, love it.

    I have been blaspheming a lot recently and I am not one to usually swear.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,284
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Sean_F said:

    We don't like our leaders much, it seems.

    Do our leaders like us? They've just finished having a global jamboree to organise a vast transfer of wealth from working people to the governing class under the guise of averting a global catastrophe. Why should people 'like' anyone who solemnly opines that we all need to 'share the burden' of decarbonisation, and lets old ladies shiver whilst their own heating and lighting is paid for by those same taxpayers. People are going to realise how gamey it all is, whether anyone is articulating it successfully at present or not.
    No, I don't think our leaders like us very much.

    What the PO scandal, the various child abuse scandals, the contaminated blood scandal etc. have in common is the revelation that a considerable number of people in positions of authority have complete and utter contempt for the people they are meant to be serving.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,115
    When the self-declared “anarcho-capitalist” Javier Milei won Argentina’s vote for the presidency he announced that there was no alternative for the country’s economic woes other than “shock treatment”.

    The plan for what that treatment involves has now been set out by Milei’s new government and includes several striking measures, including the devaluation of Argentina’s currency, the peso, by more than 50 per cent against the dollar.

    Luis Caputo, the new economy minister, said in a televised address: “It is better to tell an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable lie.” He also announced plans to cut energy subsidies and cancel tenders for public works.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/argentina-peso-dollar-currency-javier-milei-3gmh0jzqq
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,832
    Selebian said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Disappointment, I'd say.

    I didn't have high hopes for Sunak, but he's still surprised on the down side. That probably makes many of us exaggerate just how shit he is, as we're disappointed.

    All politicians disappoint to some extent, I guess, but in my politically aware memory it goes something like this:
    • Major - out of his depth, but that was partly because the Tories were a chasm of shit at the time, so not really disappointing and he did many good things
    • Blair - disappointing over Iraq and some still feel this very keenly, harshly critised for that
    • Brown - performed more or less as expected, I guess
    • Cameron - likewise, brought at least a veneer of modernity and liberalism to the Tory party
    • May - disappointed some, was also severely criticised
    • Johnson - delivered more or less as expected, I guess - had people thought he had honour you'd have seen more vitriol over partygate etc
    • Truss - also performed more or less as expected :lol:
    • Sunak - he was doomed, but we thought he might have some dull managerial competence and maybe some decency - projection maybe; present complete shit show is below expectations
    After some time has elapsed I think there's some sort of agreement that Blair's problem was Brown, and Brown's problem was Brown.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,431
    edited December 2023
    JosiasJessop said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    The problem is the real 'recall' might be to actually bring all the cars in and fit them with LIDAR and other sensors/processing systems. Tesla are gambling a great deal on the idea that their existing hardware will be able to fulfil the technical debt they've taken on.

    What's more: this 'recall' is an indication they've pushed the 'progress' pedal too strongly, and they're having to brake a little. As predicted, the two different routes towards autonomous driving are converging...
    If this "recall" is just going to make the driver vigilance systems more annoying, is it going to be like the VAG diesel-gate recall, where anyone with a brain doesn't let the dealership anywhere near the car, as the end result may be more compliant with the rules, but is worse for the end user than before it's fixed?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,128
    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Peter_the_Punter said:

    Selebian said:

    Also, Starmer's (un)popularity has barely shifted in 2-3 years, ignoring the Truss event. His opponents have just become more unpopular around him. That surprises me as I'd assumed he was edging up a bit, but he hardly is.

    The public barely knows him. This is hardly surprising. UK Politics has been dominated for a long time now by some extraordinary characters and events. Starmer simply isn't news. i bet most voters couldn't name him if shown his photo.

    That of course will change during a GE campaign. That may not help him, but I don't see it hindering him much. I think he is fortunate to be out of the spotlight until then.

    His opponents are doing a great job of making him electable.

    Starmer has been very wooden at PMQS against Sunak, but over the last three weeks he has trounced the PM.

    He cleverly (no not that one) finished his sixth question with a conciliatory festive question, knowing Sunak would spit back a vengeful retort, when all Sunak had to do was say "yes" and sit down.

    If Sunak was holding a firearm at PMQs, after the fifth question he would have shot Starmer clean between the eyes. The PM was that angry.
    Yes, it wasn't a good look. Starmer showed some lightness of touch and festive spirit today; Sunak spat it back in his face. And Starmer's yarn about a homeless lad at Xmas elicited no sympathy from Sunak, just a torrent of invective about house-building.

    Sunak's really got quite a short fuse, which I suspect does not bode well for him in the heat of a GE campaign.
    It's only nerds like us that even look at PMQs. They are irrelevant as far as the Great Voting Public is concerned. Nevertheless they do suggest that in the heat of a GE campaign, Sunak is more likely than SKS to have a meltdown.

    You would think that Starmer is better equiped professionally and politically to deal with head-to-heads during the campaign too, and it's not as if he has to knock the PM out to win.
    For all Rishi Sunak's leaden-footedness, I'm not convinced Keir Starmer is much more nimble. Often he too follows his scripted questions without regard to the Prime Minister's answers. Either could implode during the campaign.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,450
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    When the self-declared “anarcho-capitalist” Javier Milei won Argentina’s vote for the presidency he announced that there was no alternative for the country’s economic woes other than “shock treatment”.

    The plan for what that treatment involves has now been set out by Milei’s new government and includes several striking measures, including the devaluation of Argentina’s currency, the peso, by more than 50 per cent against the dollar.

    Luis Caputo, the new economy minister, said in a televised address: “It is better to tell an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable lie.” He also announced plans to cut energy subsidies and cancel tenders for public works.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/argentina-peso-dollar-currency-javier-milei-3gmh0jzqq

    I genuinely don't know why the article writer put "anarcho-capitalism" in scare quotes, it's a real thing Does the article writer think that he isn't one?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,128
    Omnium said:

    Selebian said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Disappointment, I'd say.

    I didn't have high hopes for Sunak, but he's still surprised on the down side. That probably makes many of us exaggerate just how shit he is, as we're disappointed.

    All politicians disappoint to some extent, I guess, but in my politically aware memory it goes something like this:
    • Major - out of his depth, but that was partly because the Tories were a chasm of shit at the time, so not really disappointing and he did many good things
    • Blair - disappointing over Iraq and some still feel this very keenly, harshly critised for that
    • Brown - performed more or less as expected, I guess
    • Cameron - likewise, brought at least a veneer of modernity and liberalism to the Tory party
    • May - disappointed some, was also severely criticised
    • Johnson - delivered more or less as expected, I guess - had people thought he had honour you'd have seen more vitriol over partygate etc
    • Truss - also performed more or less as expected :lol:
    • Sunak - he was doomed, but we thought he might have some dull managerial competence and maybe some decency - projection maybe; present complete shit show is below expectations
    After some time has elapsed I think there's some sort of agreement that Blair's problem was Brown, and Brown's problem was Brown.
    Blair's problem was his messiah complex. It wasn't Brown who invented sofa government or forced the bombardment of Afghanistan and invasion of Iraq.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,167
    A
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    That would be the same racists who want to replace Sunak with Braverman or Badenoch.
    All three are White Men.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    Another email from external lawyers hired by client's group legal department. ecommerce site both uses boilerplate (and thus legally compliant) policies, and this site is a copy / amend / paste of a previous client's site which their lawyers checked.

    Current external lawyers accepted the policies are legal, but wanted to create ones "more appropriate". External lawyers don't know about ecommerce - unlike the last client's lot who signed off the policies.

    I now have clueless external lawyer and clueless client lawyer asking me to referee the debate about cookies. Have pointed out that I am not a web developer and that the existing boiler plate policies are legal. Apparently I know more than they do so please advise.

    Client refused to hire web developer. "You know how to do this don't you Ian". Yes, to a point. Client has now spent more than a web developer on lawyers and we're no further on. And is complaining that my time is being used up on something they asked me to do...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,811


    He supports the apartheid government of Netanyahu but I agree that calling him a Tory is a step too far
    FrankBooth said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    I don't believe Rochdale is a Tory. And so far as I'm aware those on pb most irate at him aren't Tories either.

    I agree. He supports the apartheid government of Netanyahu but calling him a Tory is a step too far
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,484
    Sean_F said:

    We don't like our leaders much, it seems.

    I think it's seen as a bit gauche to say you like a politician. People prefer to come across as weary worldly wise, hence the popularity of the (objectively ridiculous) "they're all the same".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,167
    Chris said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    That would be the same racists who want to replace Sunak with Braverman or Badenoch.
    I'd say it was fairly obvious that those who just disagree with him about politics and aren't racist will not hate him as much as the ones who both disagree with him about politics and are racist!

    Wanting to replace a man of Indian origin with a woman of African origin - classic racist misogyny.

    If they are in favour of replacing him this, they are racists who are overcompensating.

    If they are against replacing him this, they simply racists.

    Has anyone got a very large pair of scales and a duck?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    geoffw said:

    Vote Tory to prove you're not a racist

    That was about 90% of the Republican strategy behind backing Governor Bobby Jindal in Louisiana, Governor>Ambassador Nikki Haley AND Congressman>Senator Tim Scott in South Carolina. Also (at least until Jan 2021) Legislator>Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler in Washington State. Plus other examples in recent decades.

    Not that all of the above lacked personal, professional and political ability. Rather that these factors were not the X factor that made (in Jindal's case) and still make (Haley, Scott and Herrera Beutler who is currently running for WA State Lands Commissioner) such strategic assets to & for the GOP.
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 209
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    PB contributors may remember that I have been an open advocate of Sunak. I liked his economic interventions at the start of Covid. I thought his self-promotion was quite clever. I met him and found him to be entirely personable.

    His decline from those heights to what we see now is pitiful. What does his ethnicity have to do with anything - that hasn't changed since I sang his praises on here. What has changed is that he has been promoted PM and is fucking useless at it.

    He is going to need to hide in a Boris fridge for the entire campaign. Any time anyone challenges him he gets angry and increasingly petulant. Not a good look.
    Yep - I watched PMQs today and thought the Prime Minister was very leaden footed and tetchy. I get that he’s been a busy boy for the last few days. COVID inquiry swotting and arm twisting for his rift valley boondoggle - apropos of nothing can we count the bung to Rwanda as part of our overseas aid contribution, might get us back to the 0.7% GDP?

    But the heat of a campaign is also going to be similarly tough, so while the geeks only watch PMQs, he’s going to have to learn to slow down and speed up as needed - and show some human.

    The final Starmer question was a classic. PMs get the last word and always use that one to slag the opposition leader and throw around facts that suit their argument to gee up the troops before lunch knowing that the opposition leader can’t pick him up on the veracity of those facts (lower taxes and cheaper mortgages indeed). Prime Minister Sunak just went through his lines without, seemingly, being aware that the Labour leader had changed the tone entirely.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,484
    Why does an 'anarcho-capitalist' want to deny women the right to choose when to become mothers? Is that the anarcho or the capitalist bit?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,167
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Another email from external lawyers hired by client's group legal department. ecommerce site both uses boilerplate (and thus legally compliant) policies, and this site is a copy / amend / paste of a previous client's site which their lawyers checked.

    Current external lawyers accepted the policies are legal, but wanted to create ones "more appropriate". External lawyers don't know about ecommerce - unlike the last client's lot who signed off the policies.

    I now have clueless external lawyer and clueless client lawyer asking me to referee the debate about cookies. Have pointed out that I am not a web developer and that the existing boiler plate policies are legal. Apparently I know more than they do so please advise.

    Client refused to hire web developer. "You know how to do this don't you Ian". Yes, to a point. Client has now spent more than a web developer on lawyers and we're no further on. And is complaining that my time is being used up on something they asked me to do...

    It is interesting how many domain experts know the law for their domain better than the lawyers.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,832
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Omnium said:

    Selebian said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Disappointment, I'd say.

    I didn't have high hopes for Sunak, but he's still surprised on the down side. That probably makes many of us exaggerate just how shit he is, as we're disappointed.

    All politicians disappoint to some extent, I guess, but in my politically aware memory it goes something like this:
    • Major - out of his depth, but that was partly because the Tories were a chasm of shit at the time, so not really disappointing and he did many good things
    • Blair - disappointing over Iraq and some still feel this very keenly, harshly critised for that
    • Brown - performed more or less as expected, I guess
    • Cameron - likewise, brought at least a veneer of modernity and liberalism to the Tory party
    • May - disappointed some, was also severely criticised
    • Johnson - delivered more or less as expected, I guess - had people thought he had honour you'd have seen more vitriol over partygate etc
    • Truss - also performed more or less as expected :lol:
    • Sunak - he was doomed, but we thought he might have some dull managerial competence and maybe some decency - projection maybe; present complete shit show is below expectations
    After some time has elapsed I think there's some sort of agreement that Blair's problem was Brown, and Brown's problem was Brown.
    Blair's problem was his messiah complex. It wasn't Brown who invented sofa government or forced the bombardment of Afghanistan and invasion of Iraq.
    I'm not terribly interested in Blair's history, but I think the messiah stuff was pretty much invented after he'd been bitten in the bum by Brown.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    When the self-declared “anarcho-capitalist” Javier Milei won Argentina’s vote for the presidency he announced that there was no alternative for the country’s economic woes other than “shock treatment”.

    The plan for what that treatment involves has now been set out by Milei’s new government and includes several striking measures, including the devaluation of Argentina’s currency, the peso, by more than 50 per cent against the dollar.

    Luis Caputo, the new economy minister, said in a televised address: “It is better to tell an uncomfortable truth than a comfortable lie.” He also announced plans to cut energy subsidies and cancel tenders for public works.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/argentina-peso-dollar-currency-javier-milei-3gmh0jzqq

    While I would NOT have voted for Milei, sounds like he and his government are doing the smart thing politically and strategically (if not economically) by moving forward (in one sense anyway) to further their platform and policy, AND by seizing the nettle and giving the public the bad news early instead of trying to sugarcoat a goat turd.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,411
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    That would be the same racists who want to replace Sunak with Braverman or Badenoch.
    Right-wing nutters!
  • NickyBreakspearNickyBreakspear Posts: 785
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Meanwhile. Client needs to put UK address on everything it imports from 31st January. About to print reams of stickers for an EU factory. "address format is wrong" i point out, substituting the correct address.

    We need to use the wrong address format (no postal town FFS) apparently to be consistent. Yes, consistently wrong. Is an incomplete address accepted as an address by customs assholes?

    Computer says "NO"?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,167
    kinabalu said:

    Why does an 'anarcho-capitalist' want to deny women the right to choose when to become mothers? Is that the anarcho or the capitalist bit?

    I presume you are referring to the new El Jefe of Argentina.

    Hmmm. So you are suggesting that a batshit ideologue has inconsistent and hypocritical views?

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    Malmesbury said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Another email from external lawyers hired by client's group legal department. ecommerce site both uses boilerplate (and thus legally compliant) policies, and this site is a copy / amend / paste of a previous client's site which their lawyers checked.

    Current external lawyers accepted the policies are legal, but wanted to create ones "more appropriate". External lawyers don't know about ecommerce - unlike the last client's lot who signed off the policies.

    I now have clueless external lawyer and clueless client lawyer asking me to referee the debate about cookies. Have pointed out that I am not a web developer and that the existing boiler plate policies are legal. Apparently I know more than they do so please advise.

    Client refused to hire web developer. "You know how to do this don't you Ian". Yes, to a point. Client has now spent more than a web developer on lawyers and we're no further on. And is complaining that my time is being used up on something they asked me to do...

    It is interesting how many domain experts know the law for their domain better than the lawyers.
    Lawyers know a gift horse when they see it. They're making work. "We know better, this must be changed." £7k later they're coming back to the person who supposedly did it wrong in the first place to ask what it is they need to instruct group legal to instruct me to change.

    So what I have up is "inappropriate" but legal. They spend 3 months faffing with it. Can't get group legal to sign off as they keep reading about other thongs to check. So now I am the arbiter about what needs to be included. You couldn't make this up.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,443
    RochdalePioneers said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    The problem is the real 'recall' might be to actually bring all the cars in and fit them with LIDAR and other sensors/processing systems. Tesla are gambling a great deal on the idea that their existing hardware will be able to fulfil the technical debt they've taken on.

    What's more: this 'recall' is an indication they've pushed the 'progress' pedal too strongly, and they're having to brake a little. As predicted, the two different routes towards autonomous driving are converging...
    As they are doing a patch on vehicles from 2012, most of those are already fitted with the physical sensors. Its only recently they hav dropped these in favour of cameras and AI.
    AFAIR Teslas have never been fitted with LIDAR? Tesla have always been cameras and 'AI' (*)

    (*) Yet another misapplication of AI in the computer world. Sighs...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,832
    kinabalu said:

    Why does an 'anarcho-capitalist' want to deny women the right to choose when to become mothers? Is that the anarcho or the capitalist bit?

    Do Anarcho-capitalists exist? I'm far from sure they do now, and I suspect they never have.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,679
    JosiasJessop said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    SeaShantyIrish2 said:

    for all you MusXmelons out there . . .

    AP (via Seattle Times) - Tesla recalls nearly all vehicles sold in US to fix system that monitors drivers using Autopilot

    Tesla is recalling nearly all vehicles sold in the U.S., more than 2 million, to update software and fix a defective system that’s supposed to ensure drivers are paying attention when using Autopilot.

    Documents posted Wednesday by U.S. safety regulators say the update will increase warnings and alerts to drivers and even limit the areas where basic versions of Autopilot can operate.

    The recall comes after a two-year investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration into a series of crashes that happened while the Autopilot partially automated driving system was in use. Some were deadly.

    The agency says its investigation found Autopilot’s method of making sure that drivers are paying attention can be inadequate and can lead to “foreseeable misuse of the system.”

    The added controls and alerts will “further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility,” the documents said.

    But safety experts said while the recall is a good step, it still makes the driver responsible and doesn’t fix the underlying problem that Tesla’s automated systems have trouble spotting and stopping for obstacles in their path. . . .

    In its defect report filed with the safety agency, Tesla said Autopilot’s controls “may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse.” . . .

    SSI - Getta load of the "driver misuse" excuse. MusXmelons please explain?

    "Recall". They are doing an over the air software update. Much better than your usual recall where they say "whoops that part will crash your car or set in on fire, we've been forced to change it, please wait x months until we give you a time slot to come to the dealership and wait for us to fix it"
    The problem is the real 'recall' might be to actually bring all the cars in and fit them with LIDAR and other sensors/processing systems. Tesla are gambling a great deal on the idea that their existing hardware will be able to fulfil the technical debt they've taken on.

    What's more: this 'recall' is an indication they've pushed the 'progress' pedal too strongly, and they're having to brake a little. As predicted, the two different routes towards autonomous driving are converging...
    As they are doing a patch on vehicles from 2012, most of those are already fitted with the physical sensors. Its only recently they hav dropped these in favour of cameras and AI.
    AFAIR Teslas have never been fitted with LIDAR? Tesla have always been cameras and 'AI' (*)

    (*) Yet another misapplication of AI in the computer world. Sighs...
    Had Radar until recently for the cruise control.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,795
    kinabalu said:

    Why does an 'anarcho-capitalist' want to deny women the right to choose when to become mothers? Is that the anarcho or the capitalist bit?

    He's half General AnCap and half future Generalisimo.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Milei's inaugration speech is worth watching with an open mind for people who have him marked down as just the latest populist:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOtGbkFlD8
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,092
    Roger said:



    He supports the apartheid government of Netanyahu but I agree that calling him a Tory is a step too far

    FrankBooth said:

    Chris said:

    FrankBooth said:

    I've never been one to court popularity. On the previous thread Rochdale Pioneers referred to Sunak as a 'stroppy little shit.' Maybe this was an immediate reaction because he didn't respond directly to Starmer's anecdote about a homeless child?

    Sorry but I'm not seeing this stroppiness at all. If anything he seems bizarrely tiggerish (in public) in spite of everything. Could he be deemed a little tone deaf? Yes but the reality is that day after day he is being asked to make decisions that affect thousands or indeed millions of people. Individual anecdotes are no basis for doing that even if more experienced politicians are better versed in responding to them. Still it sees as though there is a certain Rishi derangement syndrome. I find it hard to understand how people who weren't irked by Cameron nonetheless get really irate with Sunak. Perhaps it's his size, I say this as someone who was the smallest kid in the class, though I assumed people grew out of that one. The billionaire wife? I mean why would she choose someone like him? Pure luck I presume on his part. Same reason he was Head Boy at Winchester, got a first at Oxford and a Fullbright scholarship. Pure luck.

    I would hate to say it's to do with the colour of his skin but I have to wonder. Is a non-white person choosing the Tories considered an act of betrayal by some?

    Of course the reason people get really irate with Sunak is the colour of his skin. It's the great elephant in the room in British politics.

    And equally obvious is the fact that the people who get most irate with him are Tories, for obvious reasons. People who don't support the Tories may find themselves amazed at his antics, but scarcely annoyed, given the likely consequences.
    I don't believe Rochdale is a Tory. And so far as I'm aware those on pb most irate at him aren't Tories either.

    I agree. He supports the apartheid government of Netanyahu but calling him a Tory is a step too far
    Isn’t he standing for the Lib Dems at the next GE and is formerly Labour on the New labour side, which probably explains the support for Israel.

    To call him a Tory, well, he’s not.
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