Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
If the Tories want to avoid a wipeout, they need to start with booting Sunak and Hunt, not the person doing the Tweets.
Back to CCHQ shitposting. (ETA that is CCHQ doing the posting, not anyone here)
The reason this illegal immigrants meme attack on Starmer is unwise (as opposed to wrong or immoral) is the obvious risk of driving its own supporters to RefUK on that issue.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
If Johnson hadn't stepped down as an MP, I think there's a reasonable chance he might have made a run at Sunak.
But he did step down, And that means this is all rather moot.
Is there a place to go to discuss moot political intangibles? I thought this was it
Weathers been bit bleak, and the housing market is down… there’s football on and someone’s winning, and I like this or that film
Was Arthur Balfour right (silly question!) or rather correct, in stepping down with his entire Conservative cabinet in December 1904, thus allowing the King to summon the Leader of the Opposition to kiss hands (yuck) as his new Prime Minister, pending January 1905 general election.
Balfour calculated, or rather hoped Liberal Leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman would be unable to form a government, thus setting stage for Tory comeback. However, HCB did form a government, and the Tories were trounced at the GE.
Is this a useful example for Rishi Sunak? And if so, which way?
Maybe Sunak should have done a deal with Boris when they both had the numbers for a leadership vote. Let Boris try and inspire some swing back for the next GE, and take over if he lost
Is there any polling that shows Boris is currently viewed positively by the general electorate? The mood music (on here, and that I see in the media) seems to be generally against him?
(Then again, I'm rather biased against Boris as a politician...)
The mood music was against him on here when he won an 80 seat majority! Even before that, Alastair Meeks made him a 10/1 shot to make the final two of the 2019 leadership election, which he won easily
The PB mood music is always against anyone who isn’t a centrist, (albeit Boris probably is) but UKIP, the referendum, Corbyn and Boris all showed mood music isn’t always worth listening to.
When Boris was just about to quit he was still doing a lot better than Sunak is now on ‘Best PM’ vs Sir Keir
That doesn't really answer my question: is there any polling showing that Boris is still well-regarded by the public?
I was 'against' Boris not because I am a centrist, but because his time as MoL showed that he'd be a terrible PM. The only way around that was be for him to recognise his flaws and address them. He did not do so.
No 'enemies' took Boris down; no external plot. His own character flaws were the source of his downfall.
And it's not quite a like for like comparison anyway.
Suppose Boris had somehow survived Pinchergate. Let's be generous, and butterfly the Lying About Partygate investigation away without political cost.
Chances are that his reputation would have continued to drift down, because that's what almost always happens. Apart from the vaccine bounce, it happened pretty steadily to PM BoJo.
Events would still have happened, he'd have been as constrained as his successors. The default assumption has to be that BJ now would be below RS now.
Well of course it is your default assumption, but why should it be so for Tory voters who rated Boris over Rishi when Boris was at his lowest ebb?
Parliament spent three years saying getting a deal agreed and through the house was impossible. A few months later Boris had done it
And 3 years later everyone knows it was a shit deal.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
It was indeed a mistake to eject a proven election winner, no doubt about that. He had his foibles, as does anyone interesting. What we are left with is a claque of bland charisma-free robo-politicians
If the Tories want to avoid a wipeout, they need to start with booting Sunak and Hunt, not the person doing the Tweets.
If you're a potential Tory leader, why wouldn't you rather take over after a defeat?
There's a reason that Braverman and Badenoch aren't agitating for a change of leader; it's because they feel defeat is inevitable, and they'd rather someone from the other wing of the Conservative Party took the blame.
Sure, but I'm not agitating on their behalf, but because I believe in sensible conservative aligned policies. From that perspective, I don’t agree with giving any ground at all. I don't see any benefit to the Tories in conceding the upcoming election, and I most certainly don't see a benefit to the electorate. Democracy thrives when both sides want desperately to win, so you get two very different and competing retail offers.
Ambitious Conservative MPs care more about how well they positioned after the next General Election, than about getting their policy positions implemented now. They have given up on governing.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
If Johnson hadn't stepped down as an MP, I think there's a reasonable chance he might have made a run at Sunak.
But he did step down, And that means this is all rather moot.
Is there a place to go to discuss moot political intangibles? I thought this was it
Weathers been bit bleak, and the housing market is down… there’s football on and someone’s winning, and I like this or that film
Was Arthur Balfour right (silly question!) or rather correct, in stepping down with his entire Conservative cabinet in December 1904, thus allowing the King to summon the Leader of the Opposition to kiss hands (yuck) as his new Prime Minister, pending January 1905 general election.
Balfour calculated, or rather hoped Liberal Leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman would be unable to form a government, thus setting stage for Tory comeback. However, HCB did form a government, and the Tories were trounced at the GE.
Is this a useful example for Rishi Sunak? And if so, which way?
No it’s not useful, because it’s 120 years ago rather than being in this parliament
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
He has a connection with exactly many of the states Trump needs for a path to victory imho.
I'm on.
While that's true, he was a truly dreadful candidate in Ohio, and significantly underperformed Trump's 2020 performance in the 2022 midterms.
Also Trump wins Ohio irrespective. He was eight points clear there in 2020.
That being said, Vance has shown suitable fealty to Trump. And Peter Thiel is probably one of the few big money donors who has remained loyal to Trump. So it's far from impossible.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
It was indeed a mistake to eject a proven election winner, no doubt about that. He had his foibles, as does anyone interesting. What we are left with is a claque of bland charisma-free robo-politicians
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
It was indeed a mistake to eject a proven election winner, no doubt about that. He had his foibles, as does anyone interesting. What we are left with is a claque of bland charisma-free robo-politicians
The VONC finished Johnson - we know that. To have 148 of your own MPs say they have no confidence sends a signal, more than a signal in truth. Yes, Johnson could have staggered on wounded but Pincher was the last straw - the whole episode looked shambolic and worse suggested Johnson's judgement was profoundly flawed which was widely known.
From that and the by-election losses at Wakefield and T&H the end was inevitable. It took most of his payroll MPs desetting him to finally persuade him the game was up - apart from a final bit of revenge on Gove.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Suspect Starmer gets impaled on the third prong of the Europroblem, namely unless you're really clear what you are conceding and what you are holding onto, being just outside the EU runs the risk of being the worst of both worlds."
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Suspect Starmer gets impaled on the third prong of the Europroblem, namely unless you're really clear what you are conceding and what you are holding onto, being just outside the EU runs the risk of being the worst of both worlds."
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
This old chestnut.
Johnson won because he was the only Conservative leadership contender likely to neutralise the Brexit Party and create a united anti-EU centre-right voting coalition.
As for leaving the EU, plenty of factors but for me it was always about our half-hearted, rebate-obsessed membership. We could cope with a common market, a free trade association but the route of the EEC/EU was always going to be political and monetary union and having suffered the disaster of ERM membership it was clear there was no appetite in the UK for further integration.
The end of Communism and the arrival of new members in central and eastern Europe offered the hope of a return to a free trade bloc but that didn't last. The Single Market and especially Freedom of Movement had a huge impact - as the saying goes, money talks, men walk. People have always gone to the money whether it's from the field to the factory or from other parts of the UK to the big cities. The poorest have always gone to where the richest are - why were we surprised so many come to one of the world's biggest economies?
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
If Johnson hadn't stepped down as an MP, I think there's a reasonable chance he might have made a run at Sunak.
But he did step down, And that means this is all rather moot.
Is there a place to go to discuss moot political intangibles? I thought this was it
Weathers been bit bleak, and the housing market is down… there’s football on and someone’s winning, and I like this or that film
Was Arthur Balfour right (silly question!) or rather correct, in stepping down with his entire Conservative cabinet in December 1904, thus allowing the King to summon the Leader of the Opposition to kiss hands (yuck) as his new Prime Minister, pending January 1905 general election.
Balfour calculated, or rather hoped Liberal Leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman would be unable to form a government, thus setting stage for Tory comeback. However, HCB did form a government, and the Tories were trounced at the GE.
Is this a useful example for Rishi Sunak? And if so, which way?
No.
If only because the resignation was in December 1905 and the election in 1906...
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Suspect Starmer gets impaled on the third prong of the Europroblem, namely unless you're really clear what you are conceding and what you are holding onto, being just outside the EU runs the risk of being the worst of both worlds."
Switzerland and Norway seem to manage it ok.
If Starmer could persuade: The UK public, the EU, EFTA and Parliament that we should go down that track and successfully get there he might well go down as one of the all time greats. I kind of hope it is quietly in his 10 year plan.
The last time Parliament had that golden opportunity - keeping faith with Brexit and being statesmanlike - they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Peppa Pig says hello!
Peppa Pig illustrates Boris's real fatal flaw, the cause of his lying and bullshitting. Boris is fundamentally lazy. As per Sebastian Payne's book, Boris committed himself to defending Paterson, Pincher and Partygate without bothering first to establish the facts. Combined, these ended his premiership. Per Nadine Dorries, Boris was surrounded by his enemies' friends because he was too lazy to pick his own team. We see it too in his handling of Covid.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Suspect Starmer gets impaled on the third prong of the Europroblem, namely unless you're really clear what you are conceding and what you are holding onto, being just outside the EU runs the risk of being the worst of both worlds."
Switzerland and Norway seem to manage it ok.
If Starmer could persuade: The UK public, the EU, EFTA and Parliament that we should go down that track and successfully get there he might well go down as one of the all time greats. I kind of hope it is quietly in his 10 year plan.
The last time Parliament had that golden opportunity - keeping faith with Brexit and being statesmanlike - they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
It will be a different parliament after the next GE.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Though Johnson's main problem proved to be being Boris, there was and is another problem, that of the actions of his predecessors.
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Suspect Starmer gets impaled on the third prong of the Europroblem, namely unless you're really clear what you are conceding and what you are holding onto, being just outside the EU runs the risk of being the worst of both worlds."
Switzerland and Norway seem to manage it ok.
They've both managed the clarity about what they're holding onto and what they're conceding. Tag along in lots of areas to keep control of a few things.
There's potential there, but the UK hasn't begun to have that conversation with itself.
ETA: In a way, the May plan, as frictionless economic alignment as possible with controls on movement of people, was an example of that. And we all know how that went down with Brexit backers.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Peppa Pig says hello!
Peppa Pig illustrates Boris's real fatal flaw, the cause of his lying and bullshitting. Boris is fundamentally lazy. As per Sebastian Payne's book, Boris committed himself to defending Paterson, Pincher and Partygate without bothering first to establish the facts. Combined, these ended his premiership. Per Nadine Dorries, Boris was surrounded by his enemies' friends because he was too lazy to pick his own team. We see it too in his handling of Covid.
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
The current Parliamentary Tory Party were required to swear their allegiance to BoZo and Brexit.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Peppa Pig says hello!
Peppa Pig illustrates Boris's real fatal flaw, the cause of his lying and bullshitting. Boris is fundamentally lazy. As per Sebastian Payne's book, Boris committed himself to defending Paterson, Pincher and Partygate without bothering first to establish the facts. Combined, these ended his premiership. Per Nadine Dorries, Boris was surrounded by his enemies' friends because he was too lazy to pick his own team. We see it too in his handling of Covid.
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
You can't complete a cabinet when you've got a screw loose.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
It was indeed a mistake to eject a proven election winner, no doubt about that. He had his foibles, as does anyone interesting. What we are left with is a claque of bland charisma-free robo-politicians
Tories were behind in the polls when Johnson resigned.
Meanwhile. Client needs to put UK address on everything it imports from 31st January. About to print reams of stickers for an EU factory. "address format is wrong" i point out, substituting the correct address.
We need to use the wrong address format (no postal town FFS) apparently to be consistent. Yes, consistently wrong. Is an incomplete address accepted as an address by customs assholes?
Post towns are an anachronism. Even Royal Mail barely uses them any more.
Essentially the important bits of your address are the top line and the postcode. Everything else is just error correction in case you get either of those two wrong.
We (posties) are definitely in favour of full addresses
A lot of the sorting is done manually, and local villages and towns have some of the same street names. I deliver to The Green in Marlborough and quite often end up with letters for other local The Greens in my mail. They say The Green, Marlborough but have a different postcode
I look at the postcode last. I catch (I think most of) them because I recognise that the name is wrong
I reckon I could correctly sort and deliver at least 80% of my mail with just the names
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Peppa Pig says hello!
Peppa Pig illustrates Boris's real fatal flaw, the cause of his lying and bullshitting. Boris is fundamentally lazy. As per Sebastian Payne's book, Boris committed himself to defending Paterson, Pincher and Partygate without bothering first to establish the facts. Combined, these ended his premiership. Per Nadine Dorries, Boris was surrounded by his enemies' friends because he was too lazy to pick his own team. We see it too in his handling of Covid.
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
You can't complete a cabinet when you've got a screw loose.
Meanwhile. Client needs to put UK address on everything it imports from 31st January. About to print reams of stickers for an EU factory. "address format is wrong" i point out, substituting the correct address.
We need to use the wrong address format (no postal town FFS) apparently to be consistent. Yes, consistently wrong. Is an incomplete address accepted as an address by customs assholes?
Post towns are an anachronism. Even Royal Mail barely uses them any more.
Essentially the important bits of your address are the top line and the postcode. Everything else is just error correction in case you get either of those two wrong.
We (posties) are definitely in favour of full addresses
A lot of the sorting is done manually, and local villages and towns have some of the same street names. I deliver to The Green in Marlborough and quite often end up with letters for other local The Greens in my mail. They say The Green, Marlborough but have a different postcode
I look at the postcode last. I catch (I think most of) them because I recognise that the name is wrong
I reckon I could correctly sort and deliver at least 80% of my mail with just the names
You think you've got a problem? There are six Station Roads in Telford.
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
That's honest of you and I appreciate it.
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Peppa Pig says hello!
Peppa Pig illustrates Boris's real fatal flaw, the cause of his lying and bullshitting. Boris is fundamentally lazy. As per Sebastian Payne's book, Boris committed himself to defending Paterson, Pincher and Partygate without bothering first to establish the facts. Combined, these ended his premiership. Per Nadine Dorries, Boris was surrounded by his enemies' friends because he was too lazy to pick his own team. We see it too in his handling of Covid.
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
You can't complete a cabinet when you've got a screw loose.
Or when you’ve thrown away half the parts because you don’t think you need them.
What a silly thing to write. Suella Braverman has had benefits that have propelled her to where she is today, not because of any creed or colour issues, but helpful social networks, family connections and a top education, which hats off to her, she took full advantage of.
Suella Braverman's problem is not her colour. She could be blue with pink spots for all I care. I do not like her because of her brazen and nasty populism. I doubt she even believes her own bullshit, much like Liz Truss before her.
Do you dislike Sadiq Khan because of his colour (no I thought not) or because you disagree with clean air zones, his concern over the unwinding chaos in Gaza and his promotion of multiculturalism and LGBT rights in London?
If the Tories want to avoid a wipeout, they need to start with booting Sunak and Hunt, not the person doing the Tweets.
If you're a potential Tory leader, why wouldn't you rather take over after a defeat?
There's a reason that Braverman and Badenoch aren't agitating for a change of leader; it's because they feel defeat is inevitable, and they'd rather someone from the other wing of the Conservative Party took the blame.
Sure, but I'm not agitating on their behalf, but because I believe in sensible conservative aligned policies. From that perspective, I don’t agree with giving any ground at all. I don't see any benefit to the Tories in conceding the upcoming election, and I most certainly don't see a benefit to the electorate. Democracy thrives when both sides want desperately to win, so you get two very different and competing retail offers.
Ambitious Conservative MPs care more about how well they positioned after the next General Election, than about getting their policy positions implemented now. They have given up on governing.
Ultimately, whether there is a leadership election will be decided by MPs for middlingly vulnerable seats deciding which side their bread is buttered, not by some wing of the party actioning for it or, indeed, not.
If it comes to that, and I think it more likely a GE will head the possibility off unless Rishi is too timorous, the decision will be whether to stand or not, not whether you would have preferred this to happen later, or under different rules.
Er, not quite. 'Labour MP Kate Osborne accuses Kemi of comparing the spread of transitioning children as being like a disease. Kemi says that is not true.'
Is a prosecution barrister in a trial 'lying' when they suggest the accused committed the crime, or simply doing their job?
If the Tories want to avoid a wipeout, they need to start with booting Sunak and Hunt, not the person doing the Tweets.
If you're a potential Tory leader, why wouldn't you rather take over after a defeat?
There's a reason that Braverman and Badenoch aren't agitating for a change of leader; it's because they feel defeat is inevitable, and they'd rather someone from the other wing of the Conservative Party took the blame.
Sure, but I'm not agitating on their behalf, but because I believe in sensible conservative aligned policies. From that perspective, I don’t agree with giving any ground at all. I don't see any benefit to the Tories in conceding the upcoming election, and I most certainly don't see a benefit to the electorate. Democracy thrives when both sides want desperately to win, so you get two very different and competing retail offers.
Truth is though you don't really want 'sensible conservative aligned policies', you want rampant neolib policies.
Sensible conservative aligned policies would include sound money and controlling borrowing, not unfunded tax cuts for the rich.
Er, not quite. 'Labour MP Kate Osborne accuses Kemi of comparing the spread of transitioning children as being like a disease. Kemi says that is not true.'
Is a prosecution barrister in a trial 'lying' when they suggest the accused committed the crime, or simply doing their job?
You didn't watch the exchange, did you? Badenoch directly accuses her of lying and when asked to source the allegation, she says, "I'm not here to answer your questions."
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
Why do you keep banging the drum for Boris Johnson? I'm not going to gainsay the point he might be doing better than Sunak had he stayed PM (hard to imagine anyone doing much worse except Truss of course).
As for the polling "evidence", fine but it's all pointless. Your man failed - he's not wanted back in politics except by his diehard supporters. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back but at the moment he's on the outside.
Well possibly because you are one of the first, if not the first, person who isn’t a fan of his that has admitted that he would be doing better. I labour the point because, despite common sense, any nous, and the polling saying he would be doing better, the haters refuse to accept it
I think it was a mistake of biblical proportions to force him out, and seeing as this is a place for political discussion/argument, here’s where I bang that drum. In real life, with my friends and family I barely talk about politics at all
Interesting that you say you barely talk politics. My observation from PB.Com is the only disciples Johnson had left at the end were those who didn't live in the country. Things look different when you see politics from afar even if you spend a lot of time following things on your computer. Its the smell of the paint that you miss. The feel of the little dishonesties the queues at A&E the dismal city centres. Johnson by the end was loathed. He started to repulse not only his one time fans but everyone. He was rancid and he was finished
Well the relevance is that, as he has always been rated more highly than Sunak in the eyes of Tory voters, it would take someone refusing to see reason to seriously try & argue that he wouldn’t be doing better than Sunak now
Yes, you want Boris Johnson back and in truth wish he'd never gone. Would he be doing any better than Sunak now? That's up there with backing two flies racing up a wall. Johnson would have dragged all the Covid events around like an anchor but it's quite clear he engenders a fierce loyalty from a vociferous minority.
The fact remains the Conservative Party dumped him as they dumped Thatcher before and Truss after. Sunak, the last person standing on the battlefield. inherited but hasn't been the miracle worker some hoped.
The polls suggest a cynical, exhausted public feeling a change is necessary but far from convinced Starmer will make a lot of difference. Once elected and especially so with a big majority, Starmer will have the opprtunity to be as radical as a Thatcher or an Attlee but at this stage he feels the need to reassure the wavering and disillusioned Conservative voters he's neither a left-wing firebrand nor a socialist wolf in a social democrat sheep's clothing.
The polls suggest Boris would be doing better than Sunak, it doesn’t really matter what I think
I posted the R&W polls from July 22, when Boris quit, and he was miles clear then. The same is shown in their polls from Oct 22, and again in this one from July of this year with YouGov.
Strange to see PB people so reluctant to believe hard polling evidence! Wonder why?
If Johnson hadn't stepped down as an MP, I think there's a reasonable chance he might have made a run at Sunak.
But he did step down, And that means this is all rather moot.
Is there a place to go to discuss moot political intangibles? I thought this was it
Weathers been bit bleak, and the housing market is down… there’s football on and someone’s winning, and I like this or that film
Was Arthur Balfour right (silly question!) or rather correct, in stepping down with his entire Conservative cabinet in December 1904, thus allowing the King to summon the Leader of the Opposition to kiss hands (yuck) as his new Prime Minister, pending January 1905 general election.
Balfour calculated, or rather hoped Liberal Leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman would be unable to form a government, thus setting stage for Tory comeback. However, HCB did form a government, and the Tories were trounced at the GE.
Is this a useful example for Rishi Sunak? And if so, which way?
No.
If only because the resignation was in December 1905 and the election in 1906...
In January, one month later, which was the campaign.
Governmentally nothing happened. Except Campbell-Bannerman facing down and beating the "Regulas House Plot" which prove the dampest of damp squibs.
Er, not quite. 'Labour MP Kate Osborne accuses Kemi of comparing the spread of transitioning children as being like a disease. Kemi says that is not true.'
Is a prosecution barrister in a trial 'lying' when they suggest the accused committed the crime, or simply doing their job?
You didn't watch the exchange, did you? Badenoch directly accuses her of lying and when asked to source the allegation, she says, "I'm not here to answer your questions."
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
I recieved an email from them yesterday telling me that Irish public lending royalties will be delayed this year. So that's 50p or so I'll be waiting on.
I recieved an email from them yesterday telling me that Irish public lending royalties will be delayed this year. So that's 50p or so I'll be waiting on.
I recieved an email from them yesterday telling me that Irish public lending royalties will be delayed this year. So that's 50p or so I'll be waiting on.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
My wife gave birth to our son when she was 43. No issues.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
My wife gave birth to our son when she was 43. No issues.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
She's an American, and she lives in Idaho.
So, I agree, it is tough to see the British news angle here.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
She's an American, and she lives in Idaho.
So, I agree, it is tough to see the British news angle here.
Or, indeed, the Antipodean one- the link has a byline "for Daily Mail Australia".
Someone (maybe even the great Leon himself), has explained it to us before... To a fair approximation, isn't the Daily Mail a global anglophone website with the Sidebar of Shame that actually makes most of the money, which has a gently deflating UK newspaper attached?
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
My wife gave birth to our son when she was 43. No issues.
Is she famous? It's not much of a story, and the Mail seems to have picked it up from Fox via TwiX. A pre-menopausal woman wants to have children.
The issue is clearly with sex education.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
These days, it is easier for older women. Perhaps finding a partner and having sex is her next problem. She is 38 so she could have 12 years to go. It is not like a 60-year-old looking back and regretting being childless. But unless this woman is a minor celebrity, I cannot see the news angle. It looks like the Mail has just picked something at random off Twitter.
My wife gave birth to our son when she was 43. No issues.
(Insert pun about children being referred to as "issue" )
Er, not quite. 'Labour MP Kate Osborne accuses Kemi of comparing the spread of transitioning children as being like a disease. Kemi says that is not true.'
Is a prosecution barrister in a trial 'lying' when they suggest the accused committed the crime, or simply doing their job?
You didn't watch the exchange, did you? Badenoch directly accuses her of lying and when asked to source the allegation, she says, "I'm not here to answer your questions."
Given her stance on the matter I thought she would have boasted about it, not denied it. 😃
Irrespective of events, Boris, and anyone else in the Tory party, would be unable to run a successful administration. Not totally because of their own failings, but because there are not enough competent Tory MPs to form a cabinet.
The current Parliamentary Tory Party were required to swear their allegiance to BoZo and Brexit.
Hence the swathe of incompetent lackwits
Yep. And not just to Brexit but to (potentially although it was never happening) a No Deal crash out. That was tantamount to saying "ok the loonytunes, ideologues and hardcore reactionaries can stay, the rest of you can piss off".
Comments
It's of course impossible to know what the intervening 18 months would have been like with Johnson still in charge - if we assume everything outside the UK happened as it has happened there'd have still have the cost of living crisis for example.
Johnson's strength was his ability to say whatever the audience in front of him wanted to hear at that time. That is inately popular and contradictory and unsustainable over time. I think he'd be continuing to promise sunlit uplands and a better tomorrow but it would all sound a bit hollow.
There are echoes of Blair and to an extent Thatcher - there comes a time when people stop believing and stop listening.
Why should Trump, as Republican nominee or Independent for POTUS, pick a fellow male wackjob and righwing attack dog as his running mate?
Even in 2016 AND 2020 he went for a VPer with appeal BEYOND the (then) natural Trump base.
Balfour calculated, or rather hoped Liberal Leader Sir Henry Campbell-Bannerman would be unable to form a government, thus setting stage for Tory comeback. However, HCB did form a government, and the Tories were trounced at the GE.
Is this a useful example for Rishi Sunak? And if so, which way?
(Yes, it's desperately unlikely, but it's an interesting "what if...")
Populism, which for obvious reasons can't work in a complex society, flourishes when the grown ups have both failed and don't appear to have a plan.
Central to Boris's history up to his ceasing to be PM was Brexit. Brexit was an answer to a question which doesn't have an answer. The real but unstated questions was: "What do you do about the EU when you have to be in it or out of it, and because of the way it has developed under your predecessors, most people don't really want to be in it, and it isn't realistic to be out of it".
I suspect it won't be long before Starmer discovers that he continues to face exactly the same question.
Also Trump wins Ohio irrespective. He was eight points clear there in 2020.
That being said, Vance has shown suitable fealty to Trump. And Peter Thiel is probably one of the few big money donors who has remained loyal to Trump. So it's far from impossible.
From that and the by-election losses at Wakefield and T&H the end was inevitable. It took most of his payroll MPs desetting him to finally persuade him the game was up - apart from a final bit of revenge on Gove.
Johnson won because he was the only Conservative leadership contender likely to neutralise the Brexit Party and create a united anti-EU centre-right voting coalition.
As for leaving the EU, plenty of factors but for me it was always about our half-hearted, rebate-obsessed membership. We could cope with a common market, a free trade association but the route of the EEC/EU was always going to be political and monetary union and having suffered the disaster of ERM membership it was clear there was no appetite in the UK for further integration.
The end of Communism and the arrival of new members in central and eastern Europe offered the hope of a return to a free trade bloc but that didn't last. The Single Market and especially Freedom of Movement had a huge impact - as the saying goes, money talks, men walk. People have always gone to the money whether it's from the field to the factory or from other parts of the UK to the big cities. The poorest have always gone to where the richest are - why were we surprised so many come to one of the world's biggest economies?
If only because the resignation was in December 1905 and the election in 1906...
The last time Parliament had that golden opportunity - keeping faith with Brexit and being statesmanlike - they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
There's potential there, but the UK hasn't begun to have that conversation with itself.
ETA: In a way, the May plan, as frictionless economic alignment as possible with controls on movement of people, was an example of that. And we all know how that went down with Brexit backers.
Hence the swathe of incompetent lackwits
A lot of the sorting is done manually, and local villages and towns have some of the same street names. I deliver to The Green in Marlborough and quite often end up with letters for other local The Greens in my mail. They say The Green, Marlborough but have a different postcode
I look at the postcode last. I catch (I think most of) them because I recognise that the name is wrong
I reckon I could correctly sort and deliver at least 80% of my mail with just the names
Melissa Persling didn't want to settle down and have kids
Now that she's 38 she's changed her mind and is starting to panic"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/real-life/article-12856611/Melissa-Persling-cries-wants-children-late30s.html
https://x.com/treesey/status/1734990089413919009
Suella Braverman's problem is not her colour. She could be blue with pink spots for all I care. I do not like her because of her brazen and nasty populism. I doubt she even believes her own bullshit, much like Liz Truss before her.
Do you dislike Sadiq Khan because of his colour (no I thought not) or because you disagree with clean air zones, his concern over the unwinding chaos in Gaza and his promotion of multiculturalism and LGBT rights in London?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/oct/31/british-library-suffering-major-technology-outage-after-cyber-attack
https://www.bl.uk
If it comes to that, and I think it more likely a GE will head the possibility off unless Rishi is too timorous, the decision will be whether to stand or not, not whether you would have preferred this to happen later, or under different rules.
Is a prosecution barrister in a trial 'lying' when they suggest the accused committed the crime, or simply doing their job?
Toon really don't have the squad for this, do they?
I just spent one hundred and eight pounds on three pairs of socks for my sister for Christmas
https://www.pantherella.com/gift-box-3-pairs-women-patterned-cashmere-collection
I hope someone buys me cashmere socks
Sensible conservative aligned policies would include sound money and controlling borrowing, not unfunded tax cuts for the rich.
Governmentally nothing happened. Except Campbell-Bannerman facing down and beating the "Regulas House Plot" which prove the dampest of damp squibs.
Paul Brand
@PaulBrandITV
·
3h
EXCL: Lives are being destroyed by giant debts created by Covid fines.
£17m remains unpaid. Some owe £10k+ and are being relentlessly pursued by bailiffs.
There are now calls for an amnesty, given those in No10 paid just £50 or £100 over partygate.
My generation (I was born in 1974) knew that if you were a woman and you want to have children, then the earlier you start, the easier it is. We'd heard of something called the "biological clock"
Clearly this woman had no idea that procreation is a hell of a lot easier when you are 28 than 38.
Uni mis-forecasts income by £85million!!
One of maybe thinks Glen O'Hara.
University to make almost £100m in cuts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckr827z30p2o?xtor=AL-73-[partner]-[BBC+England]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=FE27CDE6-99C3-11EE-92BD-A6C4E03B214A&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_medium=social&at_link_origin=BBCLookNorth&at_link_type=web_link
So, I agree, it is tough to see the British news angle here.
Someone (maybe even the great Leon himself), has explained it to us before... To a fair approximation, isn't the Daily Mail a global anglophone website with the Sidebar of Shame that actually makes most of the money, which has a gently deflating UK newspaper attached?
(googles)
Jeez-Louise...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckr827z30p2o