By wins for LAB in the byelections – politicalbetting.com

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

kinabalu said:

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

darkage said:

Malmesbury said:

darkage said:

kinabalu said:

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

Malmesbury said:

kinabalu said:

david_herdson said:

Nigelb said:

.

malcolmg said:

Nigelb said:

The madness of councils going bust from the expense of private rented housing, when they could have built their own.

Rising tide of homelessness could bankrupt seaside town
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67076914

What idiot thought selling of social housing for peanuts was a good idea?

The idea of selling council stock was a good one.

Central government nicking most of the proceeds, and legislating to prevent councils building more to replace it was utter idiocy - motivated purely by Thatcher's dislike of local government. But then left unchanged by her successors.

The problem is not so much the lack of social housing as the lack of housing overall. Had much more been built, to meet demand, prices would never have soared as they have in both rental and purchase sectors.

You do need lots of properly funded social housing. If the residential property space is nearly all private sector you're too much in the hands of developers, financiers and landlords whose priorities are not aligned to what should be our national objective: a decent affordable place to live for everybody, homes as homes not money making instruments.

If you have a shortage of housing, then you will have people living in tiny, shitty properties. Plenty of evidence historically.

If you don't want that, do what the Victorians and Edwardians did. Build whole towns and suburbs, with actual space for people to live.

The ownership is next to immaterial - look at how much council accommodation is flipped into the rental sector.

We do need to increase supply - very much so - but doing only that won't solve the housing crisis. It will help a lot but it won't anywhere near meet the aspiration of a decent affordable home for everyone. The split between private and public sector is also important (if we do have this aspiration). We need a good sized, well funded social housing sector to serve people who can't afford to buy or rent in the private sector. There'll always be plenty of these (unless we're planning a radical overhaul of our whole economic model).

If you have adequate supply, prices will fall. A long way. Check out other countries which dot have housing shortages.

Trying to “wall off” public sector housing as cheaper just creates a subletting market.

I'll pass over your 2nd para (nitpicking imo) in order to agree strongly with the 1st - yes yes yes we must build build build. Increase supply wrt demand and all other things being equal prices will fall. Which we definitely want. It's a crazy unhealthy unfair situation we've allowed to develop.

Although prices are falling now, as it happens, not because of lots of new product but because we're into a new era of 5% money - triple what everyone had got used to. So it looks like we're getting those lower prices anyway. Fwiw I'm expecting a one third fall in real terms over the next 2 to 3 years, half in nominal terms, inflation doing the work for the other half.

If prices fall by a third, then supply is unlikely to increase - unless you can find ways of building for cheaper.

Perfectly possible to get increasing supply in a market with falling prices.

Which is why Panasonic, Sony etc are making televisions on a vast scale.

The new build sale market relies on properties being sold at a premium and a profit margin for the developer of 20% being achieved on the project, and also for them to take risks in doing it, being able to borrow money cheaply etc. None of these conditions are in place at the moment.

Yes, it's a great central point that we need to build far more houses but people are being a little too simplistic and evangelical in making out that (i) it's easy to do that with the private sector business model we have and (ii) that even if we do manage it the housing crisis gets voila solved. The government has to roll its sleeves up and get in there, acting for the long term, changing the way we look at and fund residential property.

Countries without housing shortages manage to build lots of properties. Therefore we need to do what those Dastardly Furrrineeers do.

We need to remove the bottlenecks in the supply chain of housing. Currently we have permissions stacking up. The reason is largely oligopoly in the property construction market. It is noticeable that in areas where there isn't that oligopoly and substitution is possible - flats in various areas of London - the throttling of the build process is much less evident.

Most don't explicit government intervention in the housing market to play games with price - apart from the usual planning stuff and some social housing.

Again, I 100% agree Supply is key - but there other important factors. We've touched on a few: Rates. Social Housing. Developers Business Practices. Private Sector Landlords. Financialization vs Place To Live. It's not just Supply. We have a particular (and rather weird) approach to the whole topic in this country. It reminds me of our private schools fetish slightly. I think it comes from the same place. I don't suppose you know what I'm talking about. I wonder if I do? Yes, I think so but one can never be sure.

But ok, there's only one way to finish this, forget all of the above and let me say here and now with no clutter or caveat - we should BUILD MORE HOUSES. There.

It's a bit like tulips. Mad scarcity vs demand and they become a financial instrument. Sufficient supply and they go back to being nice flowers.

Oh no you couldn't leave it, could you. I gave you an elegant judicious closer but you have to say something else.

Ok, cute analogy but Yes and No. It's not just the supply deficit that has led to our bizarre unhealthy irrational approach to residential property. There are those other factors I've mentioned. They're important. Trust me they are.

No, they're not.

Its entirely the supply shortage.

Without the supply shortage, all the other factors you mentioned wouldn't be relevant.

Take private sector landlords for instance: If there's an abundance of supply then a private sector landlord that holds a property that is put on the market for too much (or in poor quality) then the potential tenants have the ability to ignore that landlord and go elsewhere instead leaving the landlord paying tax on the land he's holding without a tenant to pay for it.

You're bending the real world into a shape to suit your doctrine. But ok, solution, let's see if the new normal of interest rates triple what everybody got used to does or doesn't lead to a big and permanent real terms drop in house prices. If you're right that only supply matters it won't. If I'm right that other factors, like the cost of money, also matter it will. I think that's better than trying to grind out a result on here.

High interest rates just puts a cap on the *price* of housing. The actual cost per month will probably be the same, since too many people are chasing too few properties.

So the telephone number prices will come down a bit. The people paying mortgages (their own or other people’s) won’t see much relief.

Tres said:

MarqueeMark said:

logical_song said:

another_richard said:

logical_song said:

another_richard said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Pulpstar said:

HYUFD said:

Jim Jordan fails on his 3rd attempt to become US House Speaker, getting his lowest total yet, just 194 votes.

210 vote for Jeffries and 25 for Others

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-67153521

Wonder if some GOP might go over to Hakeem

No.

So who from the GOP would the Dems accept ?

The GOP have a majority it is up to them to elect a Speaker.
It's not like our HoC Speaker,
Would Tory MPs vote Starmer for PM?

That might work politically for the Dems but it means that government will cease to function for a year.

Like it or not the Dems have a responsibility.

The Dems don't have to bail out the Republicans.
The Republicans won the House and it is their responsibility to elect a Speaker (who is basically someone to lead them). Imagine the Tories or Labour refusing to elect a Prime Minister.
In the US House you can have a Speaker who isn't even a Representative, so Trump or Liz Cheney or anyone could be Speaker.
If the GOP can't choose a leader it is open to them to come to a power sharing agreement with the Dems. The easiest way out of the impasse is for a moderate Republican to be put forward as Speaker with a few concessions to the Dems. It's time for the Republican majority to stop bowing down to Matt Gaetz and his handful of anarchists.

There is some talk of the Republican MAGA caucus going for Trump next.

Trump is far too bone idle to go for that.

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

turbotubbs said:

Hoping the second semi is a bit closer than the first…

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

nico679 said:

Some good news . Hamas have released two American hostages .

No more detail as to how this was brokered .

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

viewcode said:

Do you know what time it is?

It's all the trains are fucked o'clock

I am stuck in [train station] amongst the drunks, and my ETA back to little flat is "probably before midnight". Apparently most of England is underwater. This may be an aesthetic improvement but Charlie Train Don't Surf. All the big butch trains are hiding until they can get their wellies on. Oh, Lord, I'd forgotten how much drunks smell. Friday night, eh?

Grrr. 👿

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

turbotubbs said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

I’m not convinced. After all, you are not required to carry your driving licence when driving.

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

I think that's very likely to be honest. Very few of us will be free from giving something up in the name of convenience, I certainly am not free of it, and for the most part if something is not a day to day annoyance we won't care what is lost.

Sci fi tales about people happily (or mostly happily) living in AI run constant monitoring societies are probably not far off the mark. It depends on the author whether they see that as inherently sinister or not, Iain M Banks vs Neal Asher style.

Of course, some would claim Demolition Man is the most prescient prediction of today that the past came up with.

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

kyf_100 said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

I think that's very likely to be honest. Very few of us will be free from giving something up in the name of convenience, I certainly am not free of it, and for the most part if something is not a day to day annoyance we won't care what is lost.

Sci fi tales about people happily (or mostly happily) living in AI run constant monitoring societies are probably not far off the mark. It depends on the author whether they see that as inherently sinister or not, Iain M Banks vs Neal Asher style.

Of course, some would claim Demolition Man is the most prescient prediction of today that the past came up with.

When people started doing that elbow bump thing instead of handshakes, I really began to wonder how far away we are from the three seashells in this timeline.

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

You’re demonstrating your inability to think outside the box there, rather embarrassingly.

There is no need to for Starmer to be especially fiscally constrained. He could raise plenty more by:
- extending NI to all earnings (or replacing NI with ICT)
- increasing taxes on the highest earners
- introducing a land value tax and/or wealth tax

Whether Starmer is any better at thinking outside the box than you remains to be seen.

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

kle4 said:

Andy_JS said:

Kings Cross tonight.

https://twitter.com/CatherineECarr/status/1715425276169990359

Experienced something like that once. All trains out from Kings Cross were cancelled for some reason, so everyone piled across the city to another, then, at peak commuter time in August, stood like literal sardines on the world's slowest trains to get out, as hundreds who normally caught those trains stood on platforms glaring at those of us inside.

Ghastly.

viewcode said:

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

It was probably the shotguns in the back seat

😀

Fairliered said:

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

Are you black?

kle4 said:

Ghedebrav said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Compared to what certainly approaches us - AI. AGI. ASI, and the overwhelming power of AI-fuelled technocracy - ID cards are yesterday's rather trivial battle. Trust me

AI has the ability to enforce near-crime-free societies. We will take the chance, and hand it all over to the robots

Like China, you mean.

A nightmare vision - and one I am glad I won't be living in.

As for a crime free society, that's La La Land - crime will exist wherever humans exist. And technology of the sort that so captivates you will make it worse.

It doesn't "captivate" me at all, I'm just honestly extrapolating. It could easily be dystopian

I'm merely pointing out the likely future. Most people will hand over alleged social "freedoms" for total crime-free security

This does remind me that I’ve not watched Robocop in a while. A masterpiece; possibly Verhoeven’s best (and he’s got quite a catalogue) alongside Black Book.

Total Recall, Starship Troopers, the man could do good sci-fi.

I read a rumour he deliberately hired good looking but not great actors for Starship Troopers to nail the political propaganda style to everything.

nico679 said:

The Tories according to the DT hope to get an election boost by giving higher earners a tax cut . Apparently polls show its popular with Tory voters whilst everyone else effectively is told to go and fxck themselves !

CJtheOptimist said:

viewcode said:

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

It was probably the shotguns in the back seat

😀

😂 Actually two small children saying "are we there yet?" which were far more terrifying
The other half suggested that an old, arge but very powerful car being driven late at night was a red flag. Who knows? They were probably bored and wanted to harass someone

Andy_JS said:

Serious question. Is the drought over in southern England?

viewcode said:

CJtheOptimist said:

viewcode said:

CJtheOptimist said:

geoffw said:

Ghedebrav said:

Cookie said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

Cyclefree said:

eek said:

HYUFD said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

He won't do either 1 or 2 as the Labour left wouldn't let him (and probably more than 100 would vote against) so he could only get them through with Tory votes. In terms of 2 the most he would do is have a more contributory element.

Liberals would oppose 3 and 4 if fully elected risks a Conservative upper house mid term

You would note that we are talking about NHS and welfare state reform under a Labour Government because 13 years and 4 different Tory Governments have been utterly unable to fix anything...

Given that Labour doesn't even have the balls to include social care in its manifesto - reform of which would do more to help the NHS and council finances than any other single measure - you'd have to be heroically hopeful to expect NHS or welfare reform, let alone both.

Leon said:

kle4 said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

Concrete over the Green Belt.

In all seriousness I'm sure ID cards will pop back up. I'm not one for conspiracies, but that one seems to be a perennial idea that floats out of Whitehall every few years.

Does anyone care about ID cards anymore, when we can all be so easily identified in multipke ways: CCTV survellaince, photo ID technology, smart phones however you like?

I used to be fiercely anti ID cards, but now I am increasingly Meh. I don't like them, but technology makes them a lot less objectionable. And they might help stem illegal migration, abuse of the NHS etc. I can see Starmer doing it

What a stupid response. Technology makes ID cards - and the database that goes with it - very much worse. Think about it: governments which thought an IT project like Horizon (or any of the many other failed government IT projects over the years) a good idea trying to implement ID cards.

To be any use you will have to carry with them all the time thus giving our wonderful police (heavy sarcasm alert) yet another opportunity to harass and boss us around, especially coupled with Patel's Protest Act which Labour won't repeal.

Yes - I can see Starmer going for it because this sort of authoritarian nonsense is in his and Labour's DNA. Still makes it a stupid and dangerous idea.

Sorry but that isn't true - my go to story for ID cards is that it allows any employee to quickly see if John Smith has the right to work in the UK..

Now that isn't a problem for many of us on here because the go to approach is check the passport a person has but in poor area where passports aren't so common it's incredibly hard for many people to prove they have the right to work in the UK..

If ID cards are brought in I guarantee you that the authorities will require them to be carried at all times. The police for one will agitate for this as they will claim it will make life easier for them.

That'll be a particular nuisance for those on the board who have forsaken their wallets.

Microchips for them.

fingerprints should be sufficient

About 20 years ago I was pulled over by the police late at night on the motorway (they didn't give me a reason, even though I asked). One checked the car over with a torch, while the other asked for my driving licence, which I didn't have. So they asked me if I had a bank card, which I did, he took it, spoke to someone on the radio, seemed to get some sort of corfirnation, and then sent me on my way. The whole thing was a little weird, but what freaked me out more than anything was the fact that they seemed to be able to confirm my ID from my bank card. Nowadays that wouldn't surprise me, but back then, it seemed a bit Big Brother. It still is a bit Big Brother, but it's sadly the world we live in now. Very little is secret and we can all be tracked very easily (except for covid, apparently)

As to why they stopped me, I never found out.

It was probably the shotguns in the back seat

😀

😂 Actually two small children saying "are we there yet?" which were far more terrifying
The other half suggested that an old, arge but very powerful car being driven late at night was a red flag. Who knows? They were probably bored and wanted to harass someone

What colour was the car? Was it in the time where they used to play Car Snooker?

kle4 said:

Andy_JS said:

Kings Cross tonight.

https://twitter.com/CatherineECarr/status/1715425276169990359

Experienced something like that once. All trains out from Kings Cross were cancelled for some reason, so everyone piled across the city to another, then, at peak commuter time in August, stood like literal sardines on the world's slowest trains to get out, as hundreds who normally caught those trains stood on platforms glaring at those of us inside.

Ghastly.

Andy_JS said:

HYUFD said:

@SophyRidgeSky
A few messages I've received from Conservative MPs in response to the by elections:

"The problem with the PM is while he may be a first rate academic he is a fifth rate politician. He does not connect, he has the leadership qualities of an amoeba."
https://x.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1715445358887645595?s=20

Maybe Tory members made the right decision in choosing Truss over Sunak.

eek said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

You’re demonstrating your inability to think outside the box there, rather embarrassingly.

There is no need to for Starmer to be especially fiscally constrained. He could raise plenty more by:
- extending NI to all earnings (or replacing NI with ICT)
- increasing taxes on the highest earners
- introducing a land value tax and/or wealth tax

Whether Starmer is any better at thinking outside the box than you remains to be seen.

From memory a wealth tax has been ruled out - which is a pity because it would allow council tax to be replaced or at leat replaced by something that reflected current prices.

boulay said:

SirNorfolkPassmore said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

DavidL said:

NZ making this look a very easy game. This is not going to be close.

Why doesn't England do it's own version of the haka . . . by painting themselves blue and cavorting under burnt sacrifice, say lowest-scoring player?

Or just a bit of Morris dancing. Nothing like hanky waving, gently tapping small sticks together, and jingling bells on socks to strike sheer terror into the hearts of even the most powerful of foes.

Or the team just doing Kate Bush’s dance from the Wuthering Heights video. The opposition’s brains would be scrambled. Joe Marler channeling his inner heathcliff.

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

Andy_JS said:

HYUFD said:

@SophyRidgeSky
A few messages I've received from Conservative MPs in response to the by elections:

"The problem with the PM is while he may be a first rate academic he is a fifth rate politician. He does not connect, he has the leadership qualities of an amoeba."
https://x.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1715445358887645595?s=20

Maybe Tory members made the right decision in choosing Truss over Sunak.

Truss was both a fifth rate academic and fifth rate politician.

Boris was lazier than Rishi but he was a better campaigner and politician

That's unkind.

To fifth rate academics and fifth rate politicians.

Stark_Dawning said:

DougSeal said:

turbotubbs said:

Leon said:

turbotubbs said:

Hoping the second semi is a bit closer than the first…

This is pretty dreadful as a competiton. It's like one of the worst of the pool games. Really not good for rugby

The draw was a disgrace

The two semi finals have already been played: SA v France, NZ v Ireland

Quite why they thought that France couldn’t organise the staging with a draw say six months out - like the bigger Football World Cup, I have no idea.

The draw always happens a couple of years in advance. There was nothing new about it this time. It’s a flaw but not a new flaw at this RWC.

There might have been complaints about the seeding when England failed to make it out of their group in 2015 - having been beaten by Wales and Australia - but I don't remember any.

Benpointer said:

eek said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

You’re demonstrating your inability to think outside the box there, rather embarrassingly.

There is no need to for Starmer to be especially fiscally constrained. He could raise plenty more by:
- extending NI to all earnings (or replacing NI with ICT)
- increasing taxes on the highest earners
- introducing a land value tax and/or wealth tax

Whether Starmer is any better at thinking outside the box than you remains to be seen.

From memory a wealth tax has been ruled out - which is a pity because it would allow council tax to be replaced or at leat replaced by something that reflected current prices.

Yeah, I’m hoping Starmer takes one look at the books and says ‘Awful finances, rich are going to have to pay, I’m afraid that promise I made about wealth taxes will have to wait a bit’ or similar.

ydoethur said:

Andy_JS said:

Serious question. Is the drought over in southern England?

It's certainly easier. For example, reservoirs in South West Water's area are fuller than they were in January.

https://www.southwestwater.co.uk/environment/water-resources/reservoir-levels

It depends somewhat on how much of this rain ends up in the reservoirs and how much simply flows straight out of the area.

nico679 said:

The Tories according to the DT hope to get an election boost by giving higher earners a tax cut . Apparently polls show its popular with Tory voters whilst everyone else effectively is told to go and fxck themselves !

Benpointer said:

eek said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

You’re demonstrating your inability to think outside the box there, rather embarrassingly.

There is no need to for Starmer to be especially fiscally constrained. He could raise plenty more by:
- extending NI to all earnings (or replacing NI with ICT)
- increasing taxes on the highest earners
- introducing a land value tax and/or wealth tax

Whether Starmer is any better at thinking outside the box than you remains to be seen.

From memory a wealth tax has been ruled out - which is a pity because it would allow council tax to be replaced or at leat replaced by something that reflected current prices.

Yeah, I’m hoping Starmer takes one look at the books and says ‘Awful finances, rich are going to have to pay, I’m afraid that promise I made about wealth taxes will have to wait a bit’ or similar.

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

eek said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

I think we need a new thread on what amazing/revolutionary things a Starmer government might do if he gets 100+ seat majority and almost guaranteed two terms

Coz it is looking quite possible

Given the fiscal restraints surely the big things are

1 real reform of the NHS
2 making the welfare state contributory
3 ID cards?
4 turn the House of Lords into a federal senate

What else?

You’re demonstrating your inability to think outside the box there, rather embarrassingly.

There is no need to for Starmer to be especially fiscally constrained. He could raise plenty more by:
- extending NI to all earnings (or replacing NI with ICT)
- increasing taxes on the highest earners
- introducing a land value tax and/or wealth tax

Whether Starmer is any better at thinking outside the box than you remains to be seen.

From memory a wealth tax has been ruled out - which is a pity because it would allow council tax to be replaced or at leat replaced by something that reflected current prices.

Yeah, I’m hoping Starmer takes one look at the books and says ‘Awful finances, rich are going to have to pay, I’m afraid that promise I made about wealth taxes will have to wait a bit’ or similar.

If he wants to lose Kensington and Chelsea and Surrey, Brentwood and Sevenoaks and ensure a near wipe out

How many Labour MPs would you expect ‘ Kensington and Chelsea and Fulham, Surrey, Beaconsfield, Brentwood and Sevenoaks’ to return if Starmer doesn’t introduce a wealth tax?