I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
This is looking like quite depressing but smart politics from Sunak, as the story rolls on It could be rolled out to all sorts of areas, like foreign aid (slavery reparations?), maybe some of the culture war stuff too.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
The other point we established in this debate, is that the price of ICE cars is artificially high through a requirement that they effectively subsidise the production of EVs.
This is looking like quite depressing but smart politics from Sunak, as the story rolls on It could be rolled out to all sorts of areas, like foreign aid (slavery reparations?), maybe some of the culture war stuff too.
Note the YouGov poll earlier today.
The chattering classes (usually metropolitan based and on decent to high incomes) will hate it but it will resonate with many, and it's definitely cut through.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
It reads like the opening of a particularly tortured and contrived maths problem.
Today I’ll repeal the ban on PBers having menages a trois with Angela Rayner and Holly Willoughby.
If you could throw Alice Roberts into the mix you get my vote. I am sure the only reason I have not been able to sweep her off her feet is a ban I never heard of.
The Green party and some on the Labour left though would likely support most of those measures
So, write “We will stop…” or “We will prevent…” But if you write “We’re stopping…”, then that’s a lie.
No its not.
Every day he is in Downing Street and not doing that, he is stopping it from happening, for now at least.
If you say that you will prevent it, then that may be a lie, because if he loses the election and Starmer implements it then it won't have been prevented.
A red light doesn't prevent me from getting through the junction, it just stops me from doing so right now. Stopping is the correct verb.
Today I’ll repeal the ban on PBers having menages a trois with Angela Rayner and Holly Willoughby.
If you could throw Alice Roberts into the mix you get my vote. I am sure the only reason I have not been able to sweep her off her feet is a ban I never heard of.
Indeed Richard. The dark forces of the authoritarian state working against you.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Sure, why not, if others are advocating it and you're saying no then yes you're stopping it.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go. Don't forget too that manufactures are already delisting small ICE cars they deem unaffordable to convert to an electric platform. See the demise of the Ford Fiesta.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Many members of the public, but not many members of the policy-making apparatus.
"the policy-making apparatus" er... is that not the government?
Who in government is advocating the return of the death penalty or banning abortions?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I do wonder if Starmer may not be secretly delighted and relieved with Sunak's policy change on banning new IC vehicles from 2030. There has been some quite terrible under-investment in the charging network and in the systems to make the policy work and I think it would have been missed as a target no matter what Sunak had announced. And that miss would have been on Starmer's watch.
If that is the case then it was going to be a hot potato dropped in Starmer's lap in 2024/25. Five years for him to transform the UK to make the ban viable was probably too big an ask. Now he gets an extra 5 years to make the investment - he might even be able to reduce that to say 3 years - and he can justifiably blame it all on Sunak.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Many members of the public, but not many members of the policy-making apparatus.
"the policy-making apparatus" er... is that not the government?
Who in government is advocating the return of the death penalty or banning abortions?
Who in government is advocating a meat tax?
Opposition parties are advocating it.
Its been advocated by opposition MPs in Parliament.
Since when did only government count in a democracy?
It will be a real relief when the Tories finally take power in 2024 after 14 years of lefty liberal rule from the LibLab coalition and we can be free of all these silly government edicts.
Today I’ll repeal the ban on PBers having menages a trois with Angela Rayner and Holly Willoughby.
If you could throw Alice Roberts into the mix you get my vote. I am sure the only reason I have not been able to sweep her off her feet is a ban I never heard of.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
The Green party and some on the Labour left though would likely support most of those measures
So, write “We will stop…” or “We will prevent…” But if you write “We’re stopping…”, then that’s a lie.
No its not.
Every day he is in Downing Street and not doing that, he is stopping it from happening, for now at least.
If you say that you will prevent it, then that may be a lie, because if he loses the election and Starmer implements it then it won't have been prevented.
A red light doesn't prevent me from getting through the junction, it just stops me from doing so right now. Stopping is the correct verb.
If you’re having to explain, you’ve lost the argument. If you’re having to dig deep into dubious semantic discussions, you’ve lost the argument. This was a fail by Tory Central Office. They could’ve made a similar point without bending the truth so, but they’re simply not very good at politics, like Sunak.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Many members of the public, but not many members of the policy-making apparatus.
"the policy-making apparatus" er... is that not the government?
Who in government is advocating the return of the death penalty or banning abortions?
Who in government is advocating a meat tax?
Opposition parties are advocating it.
Its been advocated by opposition MPs in Parliament.
Since when did only government count in a democracy?
Ask williamglenn: I was responding to his question.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Many members of the public, but not many members of the policy-making apparatus.
"the policy-making apparatus" er... is that not the government?
Who in government is advocating the return of the death penalty or banning abortions?
Who in government is advocating a meat tax?
Opposition parties are advocating it.
Its been advocated by opposition MPs in Parliament.
Since when did only government count in a democracy?
Final paragraph
You sound like serial election "winner" Jeremy Corbyn.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
'Many' are advocating the return of the death penalty or the banning of abortions but neither are at all likely in the UK. Should Sunak claim another victory by stopping those measures?
Many members of the public, but not many members of the policy-making apparatus.
"the policy-making apparatus" er... is that not the government?
Who in government is advocating the return of the death penalty or banning abortions?
Who in government is advocating a meat tax?
Opposition parties are advocating it.
Its been advocated by opposition MPs in Parliament.
Since when did only government count in a democracy?
Final paragraph
You sound like serial election "winner" Jeremy Corbyn.
May and Boris being in Downing Street after those elections absolutely stopped Corbyn from implementing his policies.
You know what Sunak needs: a cones hotline. People should be able to call a number to report cones on the road, and no work going on.
To be honest, Sunak could promise free sex and it still wouldn't help him much now.
I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen on having sex with Sunak, even if I don't have to pay for it
I would be happy to pay to avoid sex with Sunak.
He’s not my type either, but think how much you could make selling your story to the tabloids afterwards? And imagine how many PB threads there would then be about the story?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
Here are some examples:
(1) Interest payments on BEV car loans are tax deductible (2) New charging points - whether commercial or residential - ditto (3) All new out of town shopping centers / offices / etc., are required to have electric car chargers for [x%] of parking spaces
You know what Sunak needs: a cones hotline. People should be able to call a number to report cones on the road, and no work going on.
To be honest, Sunak could promise free sex and it still wouldn't help him much now.
I don't know about you, but I'm not too keen on having sex with Sunak, even if I don't have to pay for it
I would be happy to pay to avoid sex with Sunak.
Fortunately I offer that service for just £1,000 a year. If my guarantee fails simply pass on photographic evidence for a full refund and an extra £1,000 compensation. Can't say fairer than that?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
Here are some examples:
(1) Interest payments on BEV car loans are tax deductible (2) New charging points - whether commercial or residential - ditto (3) All new out of town shopping centers / offices / etc., are required to have electric car chargers for [x%] of parking spaces
Just off the top of my head.
All of those are good ideas, but they won't do much to help people who can't get credit to buy cars.
There's definitely good things to be done, but the price needs to come down considerably before ICE is obsolete.
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
But what happened to the process started in June 2022? As far as I can see, not a single investor was interested.
And, sure, they might get some bites if more favourable terms were to be offered, but nothing like that has been announced (yet).
Planning consent was granted last July, but the project's been hanging in limbo waiting for funding since then. It's a bit much to be claiming it as being emblematic of the government's wonderful new approach when right now it looks like an embarrassing flop.
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
But what happened to the process started in June 2022? As far as I can see, not a single investor was interested.
And, sure, they might get some bites if more favourable terms were to be offered, but nothing like that has been announced (yet).
Planning consent was granted last July, but the project's been hanging in limbo waiting for funding since then. It's a bit much to be claiming it as being emblematic of the government's wonderful new approach when right now it looks like an embarrassing flop.
Be fair.
An embarrassing flop is emblematic of this government.
"When hundreds of mostly African migrants escaped from the transfer centre in Porto Empedocle, Sicily, last weekend and began roaming the town’s bakeries and shops begging for food, the mayor took to social media to explain. There were 2,000 migrants squeezed into a facility meant for 250, he told terrified locals. The conditions were inhumane. The repeated attempts to escape were inevitable.
On the island of Lampedusa, 11,000 migrants had arrived in the space of five days. There were 6,000 migrants in a facility meant for 600. The Sub-Saharan Africans were fighting with the North Africans. ‘To get food is a problem,’ one migrant told a television interviewer. ‘If you don’t fight, you don’t have food.’ Public transport was at a standstill as authorities commandeered buses to shift the migrants. Locals – and an increasing number of Italian politicians – refer to what is going on as an invasion. Migrant arrivals have doubled this year to 130,000 and the enormity of the crisis is about to shake European politics to its core."
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
Here are some examples:
(1) Interest payments on BEV car loans are tax deductible (2) New charging points - whether commercial or residential - ditto (3) All new out of town shopping centers / offices / etc., are required to have electric car chargers for [x%] of parking spaces
Just off the top of my head.
All of those are good ideas, but they won't do much to help people who can't get credit to buy cars.
There's definitely good things to be done, but the price needs to come down considerably before ICE is obsolete.
People who can't get credit to buy cars, aren't in the market for new cars irrespective of fuel type anyway, surely?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
Here are some examples:
(1) Interest payments on BEV car loans are tax deductible (2) New charging points - whether commercial or residential - ditto (3) All new out of town shopping centers / offices / etc., are required to have electric car chargers for [x%] of parking spaces
Just off the top of my head.
All of those are good ideas, but they won't do much to help people who can't get credit to buy cars.
There's definitely good things to be done, but the price needs to come down considerably before ICE is obsolete.
People who can't get credit to buy cars, aren't in the market for new cars irrespective of fuel type anyway, surely?
Might be at the bottom end of the market, which is why the petrol bottom being half the price of the electric bottom is a considerable difference.
There are people (self-employed and others) with money in bank accounts but not good credit.
Plus of course if you have £3k for a deposit you might have credit for £10k to make the difference to £13k, but not credit for £24k to make the difference to £27k.
"When hundreds of mostly African migrants escaped from the transfer centre in Porto Empedocle, Sicily, last weekend and began roaming the town’s bakeries and shops begging for food, the mayor took to social media to explain. There were 2,000 migrants squeezed into a facility meant for 250, he told terrified locals. The conditions were inhumane. The repeated attempts to escape were inevitable.
On the island of Lampedusa, 11,000 migrants had arrived in the space of five days. There were 6,000 migrants in a facility meant for 600. The Sub-Saharan Africans were fighting with the North Africans. ‘To get food is a problem,’ one migrant told a television interviewer. ‘If you don’t fight, you don’t have food.’ Public transport was at a standstill as authorities commandeered buses to shift the migrants. Locals – and an increasing number of Italian politicians – refer to what is going on as an invasion. Migrant arrivals have doubled this year to 130,000 and the enormity of the crisis is about to shake European politics to its core."
Caldwell wrote a great book “Reflections on the Revolution in Europe” about a decade ago
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
Revelations around Mr Brand. The BBC has a perhaps inevitable story about him exposing himself to a receptionist at a studio, then talking about it on his radio show 20 minutes later, and the victim went back and discovered the public audio recording. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644
I wonder if Mr B is going to get civil lawsuits in the USA a la Trump?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
Revelations around Mr Brand. The BBC has a perhaps inevitable story about him exposing himself to a receptionist at a studio, then talking about it on his radio show 20 minutes later, and the victim went back and discovered the public audio recording. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644
I wonder if Mr B is going to get civil lawsuits in the USA a la Trump?
There is one happy person from this scandal, Mr Gerald Ratner who can now say that he “Branded his brand”.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
On topic, this is so silly and desperate: "here are some things we aren't doing, aren't we brilliant?!". Pathetic. CCHQ and No. 10 comms must have had a hell of a brain drain to be coming up with this sort of tepid garbage. Meat tax and sorting recycling indeed. Makes the Cones Hotline look dynamic and bold.
I wonder when we look back if it's this sort of thing that will come to define Sunakism? A kind of cerebral sclerosis; a stuck record repeating an irritating refrain over and over till someone mercifully lifts the needle (hopefully in less then a year's time).
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
But what happened to the process started in June 2022? As far as I can see, not a single investor was interested.
And, sure, they might get some bites if more favourable terms were to be offered, but nothing like that has been announced (yet).
Planning consent was granted last July, but the project's been hanging in limbo waiting for funding since then. It's a bit much to be claiming it as being emblematic of the government's wonderful new approach when right now it looks like an embarrassing flop.
Tory donors are looking for a guaranteed £millions return on their donation. Sizewell C doesn’t meet that criterion.
An Oxford-educated doctor has been caught moonlighting at cosmetic surgery clinics while on NHS sick leave.
Dr Daniel Coventry, 33, was signed off work between April and October 2018 with a suspected virus while working as a junior doctor on £35,000 a year at the Western Sussex NHS Trust.
During that time he worked at the private clinic A New You in Brighton, where facelifts cost up to £8,000 and tummy tucks cost up to £6,000, as well as at his own medical practice DC Aesthetics, investigators found.
He was spotted on social media offering facial fillers, thread facelifts, and anti-wrinkle injections and was subsequently reported to management at Worthing Hospital in West Sussex.
Concerns were raised over his time off work, and he was advised to access the hospital’s StaffNet website to read the rrust’s policies regarding sick leave.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
Revelations around Mr Brand. The BBC has a perhaps inevitable story about him exposing himself to a receptionist at a studio, then talking about it on his radio show 20 minutes later, and the victim went back and discovered the public audio recording. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644
I wonder if Mr B is going to get civil lawsuits in the USA a la Trump?
“The BBC has learned that the BBC broadcast evidence that a man working for the BBC behaved inappropriately. This raises serious questions for the BBC. In a statement, the BBC confirmed that BBC management was made aware of the incident. The BBC has asked the BBC for comment but a BBC spokesperson was unavailable. A BBC Panorama special addressing the culture at the BBC will be broadcast after the BBC has finished investigating the BBC.”
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
To repeat my point from earlier, the tax on petrol is the same in cash terms as it was in 2011.
So there's plenty of headroom, especially as the price of petrol is down by approx 25% in the last 12 months.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
You are making this up as you go along.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
I'm not making up anything, that's the prices today.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
I personally would not ban new ICE cars, but merely progressively move the taxation system to encourage electrification.
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
How though?
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
To repeat my point from earlier, the tax on petrol is the same in cash terms as it was in 2011.
So there's plenty of headroom, especially as the price of petrol is down by approx 25% in the last 12 months.
And to repeat my point from earlier, the cost of petrol is far too high and if you can afford financing and can afford to charge at home then its already cheaper not to have a petrol vehicle.
If you can't though, that's a different matter and increasing petrol taxes doesn't fix that.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
Sorry talking cross-purposes, others are.
I completely and 100% agree with you then, we need to make BEVs cheaper.
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
Never bought a car on finance. Never will. We shouldn’t encourage it. If anything we should make it harder.
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
It's going to be a disaster. At least with HPC it's EDF carrying the can for the flawed French reactor design that just doesn't work properly. We need to stay as far away as possible from the taxpayer assuming construction risk for the EPR. The money would be better spent thrown at RR to get their SMR programme up and running.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
Never bought a car on finance. Never will. We shouldn’t encourage it. If anything we should make it harder.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
Never bought a car on finance. Never will. We shouldn’t encourage it. If anything we should make it harder.
Why not and why?
Indeed, I bought my Tesla on finance, the deal was excellent. Even the new Audi we got on finance, the interest was tiny, I can get better returns from investing the cash.
Of course we do already have a sugar tax, introduced by this government, and a plastic bag tax, introduced by this government.
Reflecting on these new lies I do wonder if somehow Cummings is back in the frame because they’re very Cummings style lies. They are not actually like 350m a week for the NHS and rather more like “Turkey is joining the EU”. They force the opposition to say “Turkey isn’t joining the EU anytime soon”. The effect, rather like earlier accusations about Britain joining the Euro, is to get a policy reported as wholly negative. When actually it should maybe be considered.
Conversely of course if Labour said “we’ll never bring back the death penalty” the likes of Braverman would be saying “well, actually..,”.
I’d hoped the Boris/Cummings style mendacity was gone along with them as it’s corrosive of democracy, but they’ve gone there.
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
I’m calling it . We’re going to see Labours lead over the next few weeks cut to single digits.
Most of the pubic aren’t into detail and want any alleged economic pain kicked into the long grass . Labour should have gotten onto the front foot , called a news conference and given Sunak both barrels . Instead they’ve allowed Sunaks party political broadcast to go unchallenged .
I agree.
The understanding by the terminally stupid is thus: Labour want to take away your car, and you can't afford an electric car, because Gordon Brown sold all the gold.
The Tories should put that statement on the side of a bus
Electric cars are so expensive most people can't afford them, unless the price is suddenly going to come down in the next couple of years.
Well surely that was the point of our push towards the banning of NEW ICE cars after 2030. Economies of scale would make your MG4 or your Funky Cat even more competitive. I suspect that by 203 ,new ICE cars will be niche and more expensive than new electric cars anyway. It's going to happen despite Rishi's false flag operation yesterday.
Most people buy used cars. You would still have been be able to buy a used BMW M4 or Ford Mustang GT500 post 2030 if you want the exhilaration of phenomenal acceleration off the line, although haven't MG brought out a performance electric car that would blow the socks off either?
We don't need electric vehicles to be more competitive because petrol vehicles that would be half the price are now illegal.
We need electric vehicles to be more competitive because they're the same price or cheaper than petrol vehicles so ICE vehicles are now obsolete.
Alexa, please translate that post into basic English.
If a petrol car is £13k and an electric car is £27k then banning the petrol car may make the electric car "competitive" but its not positive progress.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
I note that the EV vs ICE comparison above ignores the cost of actually running the vehicle for X years, which will be most crucially affected by differential tax levels and fuel prices, and Sunak has kicked that out beyond the next election because he's too scared to deal with it.
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Running a vehicle for X years doesn't help you if you can't get the credit to get the vehicle in the first place.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
The last number I saw was that around 90% of new cars are bought on finance.
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
You do realise don't you that people are eligible for differing amounts of finance?
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Don't let great be the enemy of good.
Exactly my point, if you can't afford great (BEV, £27k), you might only be able to afford good (Petrol, £13k).
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
People with less money will buy used ICE vehicles. And they will be able to get them cheaper because the ICE owners will be upgrading to BEVs because of subsidies.
So your solution is that people who previously could afford new vehicles shouldn't be able to afford a new vehicle anymore by eliminating that section of the new market and should compete for used vehicles instead?
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
Eh?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
Never bought a car on finance. Never will. We shouldn’t encourage it. If anything we should make it harder.
Why not and why?
Indeed, I bought my Tesla on finance, the deal was excellent. Even the new Audi we got on finance, the interest was tiny, I can get better returns from investing the cash.
Mine too. Was a good deal, and works smoothly. One thing I would say is that it almost always pays to pay off the bubble at the end (even if you then just sell the vehicle) rather than flip the PCP to another car.
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
It's going to be a disaster. At least with HPC it's EDF carrying the can for the flawed French reactor design that just doesn't work properly. We need to stay as far away as possible from the taxpayer assuming construction risk for the EPR. The money would be better spent thrown at RR to get their SMR programme up and running.
Hasn't one of our esteemed high court judges nixed it
The Green party and some on the Labour left though would likely support most of those measures
So he's stopping heavy-handed measures that would have come into existence if another party had won the 2019 election. If you are having to introduce a multiverse to win an argument, something may possibly have gone wrong.
On radio 4 today the chair of the climate change advisory committee said that they had proposed these ideas to the government, but it was up to the government to decide whether to do them
So Sunak is fine in his approach. All he’s saying is we are not as stupid as George Osborne introducing the pasty tax when the treasury proposed it for the umpteenth time
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
Rishi Sunak is drawing up plans for a radical reform of A-levels with a new style of British Baccalaureate under which children would study more subjects after the age of 16.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
I think it would be better to teach the application of maths to everyday life, eg ensure financial education and statistics, to help people understand interests rates, mortgages, pensions, credit cards, how to work out supermarket pricing by being able to do the mental arithmetic on the value of different pack sizes, and how governments, politicians and public bodies and businesses misuse statistics to their own ends
In all the focus on Sunak stopping things that never happened, his attempts positive seem to have been overlooked:
Is that deliberate or accidental?
"Funding for Sizewell C"?!
Wasn't Monday's announcement simply that they've opened a new application process for potential investors to register their interest?
Barclays were asked to run a search for potential investors in June last year, but they don't seem to have found any, as this new process doesn't seem to involve them.
The government and EDF have both agreed to pay 20% each, which leaves 60% unaccounted for. As far as I can see, no new money has been announced.
So this is basically an outright lie.
Yes, Sizewell C have started the capital raise process.
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
It's going to be a disaster. At least with HPC it's EDF carrying the can for the flawed French reactor design that just doesn't work properly. We need to stay as far away as possible from the taxpayer assuming construction risk for the EPR. The money would be better spent thrown at RR to get their SMR programme up and running.
Comments
I suspect it will end up with a few big institutional investors with a lot of the risk backstopped by government.
He truly is shit.
Getting the electric car down to £13k so that it is the same price as the petrol car is positive progress and will make the petrol (ICE) car obsolete.
It could be rolled out to all sorts of areas, like foreign aid (slavery reparations?), maybe some of the culture war stuff too.
The chattering classes (usually metropolitan based and on decent to high incomes) will hate it but it will resonate with many, and it's definitely cut through.
This is not an accident.
Every day he is in Downing Street and not doing that, he is stopping it from happening, for now at least.
If you say that you will prevent it, then that may be a lie, because if he loses the election and Starmer implements it then it won't have been prevented.
A red light doesn't prevent me from getting through the junction, it just stops me from doing so right now. Stopping is the correct verb.
There are pros and cons for electric cars nonetheless. Electric cars are becoming more competitive, particularly Chinese models which are very good, but would you trust the Chinese government not to install subversive software? Batteries still have a relatively short life so the used car option needs work. The charging infrastructure is not good enough but it is fast improving. At Exeter services yesterday half the car park had electric charging bays with seven years to go. Don't forget too that manufactures are already delisting small ICE cars they deem unaffordable to convert to an electric platform. See the demise of the Ford Fiesta.
My biggest issue isn't the row back, but the anti-democratic nature of the speech ( no parliamentary scrutiny) and the fact that it has been designed to misinform, as with ULEZ and as with Brexit.
Is this just a last hoorah or the stalking horse for potentially bigger and better things like capital punishment?
"As Prime Minister, I am proposing the execution of Lucy Letby. If the party opposite oppose this they are condoning the.summary execution of tiny babies". Far fetched? Hmm.
Niche.
Cheapest mainstream new petrol car is the likes of the Kia Picanto (a good car, I've had one before) for £13k.
Cheapest mainstream new electric car is the MG4 for £27k
Should the Picanto be banned in 2030 if its still considerably cheaper than the cheapest electric vehicle?
Electrification is the future but we need to invest to get electric vehicle prices down, and charging infrastructure rolled out. That's not happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen by 2030.
(The irony tags may be difficult to discern. But they're there if you look closely.)
If that is the case then it was going to be a hot potato dropped in Starmer's lap in 2024/25. Five years for him to transform the UK to make the ban viable was probably too big an ask. Now he gets an extra 5 years to make the investment - he might even be able to reduce that to say 3 years - and he can justifiably blame it all on Sunak.
Its been advocated by opposition MPs in Parliament.
Since when did only government count in a democracy?
Which is - basically - what we used to do in the good old days.
You sound like serial election "winner" Jeremy Corbyn.
The tax on petrol is pretty maxed out now already, its considerably cheaper on an ongoing basis to run a BEV than an ICE vehicle already.
The barrier preventing BEV adoption isn't running costs, its up-front capital costs. Buying a new vehicle for £27k instead of £13k is a considerable up-front cost (or £17k instead of £8.5k for same age used) is a major up-front cost.
(1) Interest payments on BEV car loans are tax deductible
(2) New charging points - whether commercial or residential - ditto
(3) All new out of town shopping centers / offices / etc., are required to have electric car chargers for [x%] of parking spaces
Just off the top of my head.
There's definitely good things to be done, but the price needs to come down considerably before ICE is obsolete.
And, sure, they might get some bites if more favourable terms were to be offered, but nothing like that has been announced (yet).
Planning consent was granted last July, but the project's been hanging in limbo waiting for funding since then. It's a bit much to be claiming it as being emblematic of the government's wonderful new approach when right now it looks like an embarrassing flop.
An embarrassing flop is emblematic of this government.
The enormity of the migrant crisis will upend European politics"
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-enormity-of-the-migrant-crisis-will-upend-european-politics/
"When hundreds of mostly African migrants escaped from the transfer centre in Porto Empedocle, Sicily, last weekend and began roaming the town’s bakeries and shops begging for food, the mayor took to social media to explain. There were 2,000 migrants squeezed into a facility meant for 250, he told terrified locals. The conditions were inhumane. The repeated attempts to escape were inevitable.
On the island of Lampedusa, 11,000 migrants had arrived in the space of five days. There were 6,000 migrants in a facility meant for 600. The Sub-Saharan Africans were fighting with the North Africans. ‘To get food is a problem,’ one migrant told a television interviewer. ‘If you don’t fight, you don’t have food.’ Public transport was at a standstill as authorities commandeered buses to shift the migrants. Locals – and an increasing number of Italian politicians – refer to what is going on as an invasion. Migrant arrivals have doubled this year to 130,000 and the enormity of the crisis is about to shake European politics to its core."
There are people (self-employed and others) with money in bank accounts but not good credit.
Plus of course if you have £3k for a deposit you might have credit for £10k to make the difference to £13k, but not credit for £24k to make the difference to £27k.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflections_on_the_Revolution_in_Europe
A tax settlement can tip it whichever way is desired. In recent years the current Govt has been reducing grants on EVs whilst cutting Fuel Excise Duty by nearly half in real terms since 2010.
Whoever wins the next General Election will have to face a lot of things that the current Govt are running away from. Even cowardly Rishi.
Just as paying a mortgage for X years is cheaper than renting, but that doesn't help if you can't get the credit to buy the property in the first place.
Its easy for the well off to take for granted how fortunate they are compared to others.
Revelations around Mr Brand. The BBC has a perhaps inevitable story about him exposing himself to a receptionist at a studio, then talking about it on his radio show 20 minutes later, and the victim went back and discovered the public audio recording.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66882644
I wonder if Mr B is going to get civil lawsuits in the USA a la Trump?
So not a major issue for the large majority of the market.
If you have a £3k deposit and can get £10k in finance to make the difference to £13k, then do you think that automatically guarantees you can also get £24k in finance to make the difference to £27k?
Want BEV to be affordable, bring capital costs down to ICE capital costs.
I wonder when we look back if it's this sort of thing that will come to define Sunakism? A kind of cerebral sclerosis; a stuck record repeating an irritating refrain over and over till someone mercifully lifts the needle (hopefully in less then a year's time).
We really need these people out of power ASAP.
An Oxford-educated doctor has been caught moonlighting at cosmetic surgery clinics while on NHS sick leave.
Dr Daniel Coventry, 33, was signed off work between April and October 2018 with a suspected virus while working as a junior doctor on £35,000 a year at the Western Sussex NHS Trust.
During that time he worked at the private clinic A New You in Brighton, where facelifts cost up to £8,000 and tummy tucks cost up to £6,000, as well as at his own medical practice DC Aesthetics, investigators found.
He was spotted on social media offering facial fillers, thread facelifts, and anti-wrinkle injections and was subsequently reported to management at Worthing Hospital in West Sussex.
Concerns were raised over his time off work, and he was advised to access the hospital’s StaffNet website to read the rrust’s policies regarding sick leave.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/21/oxford-educated-nhs-doctor-moonlighting-at-cosmetic-clinic/
Exclusive: Anderson is one of around 26 players to have been offered contracts as the ECB attempts to maintain control of player schedules
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2023/09/21/james-anderson-england-central-contracts-extend-career/
So there's plenty of headroom, especially as the price of petrol is down by approx 25% in the last 12 months.
If you look at overall costs, the RAC shows the cost of motoring has risen 6% less than inflation over a decade - motoring is getting relatively cheaper.
https://www.racfoundation.org/data/cost-of-motoring-index
So there'd be increasing demand for used vehicles (those who would anyone have bought used, plus those who would have bought affordable new) and the supply of used vehicles would be going down as nobody would be buying affordable vehicles anymore and selling them after 2-3 years.
Today you can get a 3 year old used Picanto for £8.5k. If Picantos are made illegal, then 3 years later what used vehicles do people buy?
I'm not suggesting banning ICE sales, so I don't see why anyone is disadvantaged. I'm merely suggesting that we make it cheaper to buy BEVs.
If you can't though, that's a different matter and increasing petrol taxes doesn't fix that.
I completely and 100% agree with you then, we need to make BEVs cheaper.
As part of his pledge to unveil a series of long-term decisions to “change” Britain, the prime minister is expected to set out proposals to move towards a more continental-style system of education.
Under the reforms being drawn up in No 10, children would be required to study a wider range of subjects in post-16 education, and English and maths would become compulsory up until the age of 18.
The proposals are partly in response to the prime minister’s commitment that all children should study some form of maths up to the age of 18. It is not possible to meet that commitment under the existing A-level system.
While the plans are unlikely to take effect before the next election, Sunak hopes the move will open up a clear dividing line with Labour on education policy amid claims that the government has lost its reforming zeal of its early years in power.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/plan-to-reform-alevels-british-baccalaureate-ttlvhl79r
I studied 6 subjects in my own Baccalaureate.
Dropping maths and main language at 16 is a uniquely British idea as far as I know, I don't know anywhere else where education at 16-18 is so narrow.
Big whoop...
Our kestrel manoeuvres in the dark.
Reflecting on these new lies I do wonder if somehow Cummings is back in the frame because they’re very Cummings style lies. They are not actually like 350m a week for the NHS and rather more like “Turkey is joining the EU”. They force the opposition to say “Turkey isn’t joining the EU anytime soon”. The effect, rather like earlier accusations about Britain joining the Euro, is to get a policy reported as wholly negative. When actually it should maybe be considered.
Conversely of course if Labour said “we’ll never bring back the death penalty” the likes of Braverman would be saying “well, actually..,”.
I’d hoped the Boris/Cummings style mendacity was gone along with them as it’s corrosive of
democracy, but they’ve gone there.
Doing major education reforms in a rush in under 12 months.
I wonder what could go wrong...
https://x.com/delaferiar/status/1704786383351517367?s=46
Rita is right, there’s a long term rise in the importance of excise duties vis a vis other taxes, not just in the UK.
So Sunak is fine in his approach. All he’s saying is we are not as stupid as George Osborne introducing the pasty tax when the treasury proposed it for the umpteenth time
I liked last week's: if you were born the year Red Red Wine came out...
...UB40