If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Ha! Brilliant! Have you actually read their 'explanation'? It's one of the most ludicrous pieces of tendentious nonsense I've ever seen in a question asked by a leading pollster.
So what should it say then to suit your 'objective' viewpoint?
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost. Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
I think Reckless could end up receiving around 50-53% because the trend is in that direction and there are almost three weeks still to go.
Look at Survation's level of error in previous Tory held seats.
The overstated gap in Newark 1 (just one week before the election ) was 11 points, in Clacton it was 9.
Both suggest that the gap on the day will be about 5.
Given the Clacton polls were all over a month before the by-election I'd be wary of making any assumptions about their accuracy in relation to a result so far ahead. After all will you be judging the General election result next May on polls produced at the end of March?
As for Newark it seems likely the Tories had the momentum which would explain that. At this time they clearly do not have the momentum in Rochester
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
So what should it say then to suit your 'objective' viewpoint?
It's hard to describe in a couple of sentences, but saying it is a mechanism for allowing US multinationals to sue the NHS is about as leading as they come. Survation should be ashamed of themselves for allowing their name to be put to such a ridiculous piece of partisan spin. It's equivalent to a healthcare company running a poll where the explanation is something like 'TTIP is an agreement which would allow the NHS to give people better care at a lower cost', and then asking whether that was a good idea.
So what should it say then to suit your 'objective' viewpoint?
It's hard to describe in a couple of sentences, but saying it is a mechanism for allowing US multinationals to sue the NHS is about as leading as they come. Survation should be ashamed of themselves for allowing their name to be put to such a ridiculous piece of partisan spin. It's equivalent to a healthcare company running a poll where the explanation is something like 'TTIP is an agreement which would allow the NHS to give people better care at a lower cost', and then asking whether that was a good idea.
Is it true though? Unite are not going to pay for something that damages their interests. Perhaps the Tories should get one of their healthcare companies to run a poll in response?
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost. Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
Look private businesses have a tendency to cut corners to reduce costs, if a single bolt is defected due to cost cutting then a spacecraft can disintegrate.
The Challenger disaster is a prime example of cost cutting pressures leading to catastrophic failure.
So what should it say then to suit your 'objective' viewpoint?
It's hard to describe in a couple of sentences, but saying it is a mechanism for allowing US multinationals to sue the NHS is about as leading as they come. Survation should be ashamed of themselves for allowing their name to be put to such a ridiculous piece of partisan spin. It's equivalent to a healthcare company running a poll where the explanation is something like 'TTIP is an agreement which would allow the NHS to give people better care at a lower cost', and then asking whether that was a good idea.
Labour should probably "go large" on it at the GE at any rate. What's UKIP's policy on this ?
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost. Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
Not the first people that project has killed - three sadly died a few years back during a ground test of a rocket engine.
I've said my piece on this project in the past on here, and now's not the time to rehash it. But it just so happens that our friendly rocket engineer is staying with us tonight, and he is both sad and angry.
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
It may be a leading question but it is hardly a push poll.
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost. Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
Look private businesses have a tendency to cut corners to reduce costs, if a single bolt is defected due to cost cutting then a spacecraft can disintegrate.
The Challenger disaster is a prime example of cost cutting pressures leading to catastrophic failure.
Challenger and Columbia were both ultimately caused by a stupid design that was trying to meet too many requirements, civilian and military. Both losses can be traced to the compromised design, which lacked even a launch-abort system.
If you want to make this into a private vs public argument, then I will mention SpaceX, who seem to be going about things in just the right way. Even Orbital Sciences, who had their Antares rocket explode earlier in the week, have a fairly good track record with their other two launchers.
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
Not being PC is the greatest crime of all to the left.
Matthew Goodwin seriously questions Cameron's judgment:
"Cameron should never have personally aligned himself to the Rochester&Strood result. And too many Tories said to me "it will be like Newark" 6:32pm - 31 Oct 14"
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost. Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
Look private businesses have a tendency to cut corners to reduce costs, if a single bolt is defected due to cost cutting then a spacecraft can disintegrate.
The Challenger disaster is a prime example of cost cutting pressures leading to catastrophic failure.
“I guess the question I'm asked the most often is: "When you were sitting in that capsule listening to the count-down, how did you feel?" Well, the answer to that one is easy. I felt exactly how you would feel if you were getting ready to launch and knew you were sitting on top of two million parts -- all built by the lowest bidder on a government contract.” ― John Glenn
Our red friends such as @Speedy Eager to find fault in a private company on one of the frontiers of knowledge, simply because it's private. What bolt, Speedy? Have you any special data to hand where you can make such an accusation?
So what should it say then to suit your 'objective' viewpoint?
It's hard to describe in a couple of sentences, but saying it is a mechanism for allowing US multinationals to sue the NHS is about as leading as they come. Survation should be ashamed of themselves for allowing their name to be put to such a ridiculous piece of partisan spin. It's equivalent to a healthcare company running a poll where the explanation is something like 'TTIP is an agreement which would allow the NHS to give people better care at a lower cost', and then asking whether that was a good idea.
Labour should probably "go large" on it at the GE at any rate. What's UKIP's policy on this ?
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
It may be a leading question but it is hardly a push poll.
It's a push poll and the question is based on a lie. Feel to disagree while referencing investment treaties and international arbitration.
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
Ah surbiton, they will look after you when you get old and do the jobs you don't want to do. You have been promised by the same people who promised that children in care would be looked after.
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
It may be a leading question but it is hardly a push poll.
Trying to associate TTIP with wicked Americans (boo, hiss) suing the government because they want a privatised NHS?
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
Oh for goodness sake. Seriously do you think this 'Outraged of Kensington & Chelsea' act is making you look good? Pollsters do this sort of stuff all the time. Get over it!
Ah surbiton, they will look after you when you get old and do the jobs you don't want to do. You have been promised by the same people who promised that children in care would be looked after.
I see. First, I heard that the people will teach Labour a lesson for the child abuse. When they didn't, it's their fault !
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
Oh for goodness sake. Seriously do you think this 'Outraged of Kensington & Chelsea' act is making you look good? Pollsters do this sort of stuff all the time. Get over it!
Credible pollsters shouldn't.
I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a detailed view on the NHS and TTIP. In general, I'm a fan of trade treaties, but I haven't researched the details here.
But if you believe the face results of this poll given the intro you'd be making a mistake
*If* the reports of a pilot surviving are correct, it *may* refer to the pilot of the launcher aircraft. SS2 is unusual in that there is a specially-designed and rather beautiful launcher aircraft that carries the rocketplane to altitude, before dropping it. I've been out to fetch some food so haven't been able to keep track of reports, but it could be that the launcher aircraft has landed successfully, and it's the rocket place itself that has crashed.
Rochester poll. Tactically-minded Labour supporters supporting UKIP to beat the Conservatives? So much for anti-UKIP voting.
Depends on the type of voter. Liberal, middle-class Labour supporters voted Conservative in Newark to stop Helmer. Working-class Labour supporters in Rochester are moving to UKIP.
Re the TTIP questions whilst they may not cover the entirety of TTIP they do reflect the concerns of the polls sponsor and from what I can see do not misrepresent the issue regarding the Investor State Dispute Settlement (ISDS):
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
It's similar to Sir Peter Hall hating Margaret Thatcher because she bought clothes from M & S. It's a kind of Pavlovian reaction that bien pensants have for the English lower middle and working classes.
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
"I am going to ask you about something. By definition that makes it interesting. If it is interesting it is controversial. Hmmh. And it affects the NHS. The NHS is a good thing. A controversial thing affecting the NHS. Sounds like a bad idea. Should that nice Mr Cameron exclude the NHS from TTIP? I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Survation provided an explanation of what TTIP was (see page 3)
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
It may be a leading question but it is hardly a push poll.
Trying to associate TTIP with wicked Americans (boo, hiss) suing the government because they want a privatised NHS?
UKIPs position to exclude the NHS from the treaty shows an interesting protectionist side. Does their opposition also cover similiar privatised services in social care, childrens homes, police, prisons etc?
It is also a very long way from Carswells libertarian vision of free trade with the world.
I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a detailed view on the NHS and TTIP. In general, I'm a fan of trade treaties, but I haven't researched the details here.
But if you believe the face results of this poll given the intro you'd be making a mistake
There is no such thing as 'credible pollsters' by your seeming standards
I've posted some relevant stuff on TTIP and ISDS but you crying foul over this is absurd.
How many times have pollsters misrepresented people's views about the EU by giving a simplistic in or out headline to a poll (as Mori did last week) when in reality the situation is far more nuanced. How many times have pollsters falsely implied that options preferred by voters are attainable whilst remaining members of the EU when in reality they are not and never will be?
"British savers are 'worst in Europe' We save just 9.9 per cent of everything we earn – less than half the proportion in France and below the levels in troubled nations such as Spain and Portugal "
Sean_F - I have often read here that a public school education should not be held against the man, but a crappy state education is always your own fault.
If you asked voters to explain what TTIP is, and the impact on the NHS, I bet that less than 5% would have a clue.
What the pollsters have asked is the following.
I don't know what it is. But I'm smart, so I need to have an opinion. What should I say? Well, it's a bad thing. And the NHS is a good thing. Should it be excluded? Of course it should!"
Is it any wonder that people are turning their back on the Tories when they make such contemptible judgements about people?
Survation should be ashamed of themselves.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
It may be a leading question but it is hardly a push poll.
Trying to associate TTIP with wicked Americans (boo, hiss) suing the government because they want a privatised NHS?
UKIPs position to exclude the NHS from the treaty shows an interesting protectionist side. Does their opposition also cover similiar privatised services in social care, childrens homes, police, prisons etc?
It is also a very long way from Carswells libertarian vision of free trade with the world.
I don't think Carswell will lose much sleep over UKIP's position because he doesn't think much of TTIP full stop.
Dig a little deeper, and what is envisaged might be better described as a mercantilist arrangement, drawn up by officaldom on both sides of the Atlantic. Far from free trade with mutual standard recognition, the small print is all about common standards, which define under what conditions transatlantic trade is permitted.
I wonder if UKIP losing the PCC election might be a blessing for them in the long run. Any minor screw ups would be pounced upon by the media and some of the blame would be deflected from Labour.
Also reinforces the view that you can put a chimp in a red rosette up North and they'd still get voted in.
As I've said several times the UKIP candidate was very poor so I would agree with your first statement.
I predicted a Labour win because there's still enough of the heritage "our family's always been Labour, they're the party of the working class" vote left.
But I underestimated the amount of middle class hatred in Sheffield for UKIP.
The irony is that Labour's working class voters still vote Labour because they think its the party of the working class.
While Labour's middle class supporters vote Labour because they hate UKIP for being the wwc party.
Would Citizen Khan be racist if it was exactly the same, except all the Asian parts were played by white actors in make-up?
In the BBC's eyes, depends if the parts where played by David Willaims and Matt Lucas. If so, its fine. However, if Mike Reid, was in a role, definitely racist.
Sean_F - I have often read here that a public school education should not be held against the man, but a crappy state education is always your own fault.
Thereby hangs a tale. We've had two detailed reports recently suggesting that privately educated graduates earn more than their State-educated counterparts - but, the extra earnings don't outstrip the fees that the parents pay.
The cunning well-off parent surely shops around for the best State schools, buys private tuition as necessary, and saves the fees.
Apart from the unusual altitude, how is this any more or less horrible than other traffic accidents that over the world probably kill thousands every day?
Curious article. I also like British narrative painting of the 19th century, and as he acknowledges it's well represented in Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool. I'd also add Newcastle's Laing Gallery. Noone sane, though, wd regard these works as more important than Picasso or Rothko. So, I don't really understand what his problem is.
Curious article. I also like British narrative painting of the 19th century, and as he acknowledges it's well represented in Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool. I'd also add Newcastle's Laing Gallery. Noone sane, though, wd regard these works as more important than Picasso or Rothko. So, I don't really understand what his problem is.
Against that, the Newlyn School (a branch of narrative painting that was the forerunner of Impressionism was an incredibly important and under-rated strand of international (and very British) art.
There was a tremendous exhibition on this theme in London a couple of years ago.
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
It's similar to Sir Peter Hall hating Margaret Thatcher because she bought clothes from M & S. It's a kind of Pavlovian reaction that bien pensants have for the English lower middle and working classes.
While there's no shortage of hatred for various political parties - I make no secret of my deep dislike of Labour - people normally have a rational reason for this based on that party's actions in government.
But the visceral hatred of UKIP by much of the middle class is different. With UKIP not having been in government, either nationally or locally, there's no reason to hate them for their actions. Or at least not yet.
Instead the hatred is for what they are and who their voters are.
The wwc.
The role of class politics and the hatred of people different to you should not be underestimated.
As this becomes more apparent we're likely to see voting blocks solidify in Britain:
'progressive' & public sector middle class = Labour conservative & private sector middle class = Conservative wwc = UKIP
In Scotland the SNP will, I suspect, increasingly pick up the wwc vote.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
What the NHS/TTIP question tells us is that peole like the NHS and don't trust David Cameron with it. Perhaps we knew that already. But it could be quite important when it comes to the election.
Its rather amusing to read that UKIP made a huge effort in South Yorkshire.
Can anyone claiming that please provide some evidence ?
From within South Yorkshire the UKIP campaign seemed, bar one leaflet received, pretty invisible. An unimpressive effort with a unimpressive candidate.
On the other hand there's been reports of Labour bringing in activists all week, organising postal votes etc.
How long have the Cons had a candidate in the fight for R&S?
While this poll looks poor for them, it could easily be a lot worse. Still 20 days for UKIP to increase the lead or for the Cons to peg them back. Much too early to draw conclusions.
What the NHS/TTIP question tells us is that peole like the NHS and don't trust David Cameron with it. Perhaps we knew that already. But it could be quite important when it comes to the election.
No, people like health care. They like it free at the point of delivery. They expect it to be better, to improve year on year. The NHS is a delivery option. No more.
"Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think."
Talking of mental sickness is there no one who can put a stop to this man's prurient obsession? It's rapidly making this site unreadable.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
That depends if you want the perfect candidate to reveal the truth or the perfect candidate to produce a 'lessons have been learnt' whitewash.
"Talking of mental sickness is there no one who can put a stop to this man's prurient obsession? It's rapidly making this site unreadable" - it almost worked, I thought twice about defending Socrates - but Christ in all these years nothing has been fixed. It is the cover up that is upsetting people. It is not the same as the music teacher buggering little boys.
"Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think."
Talking of mental sickness is there no one who can put a stop to this man's prurient obsession? It's rapidly making this site unreadable.
Whilst none of my concern, I do wonder why people bother with personal defence on an anonymous internet forum. Nobody cares about the personal insults or the defence against them.
I am actually I favour of reversing defence cuts, but not because of people getting their knickers in a twist over evil uncle Vlad. Nor is simply 'reversing cuts' going to make the required difference -there is no quicker way of losing a few million than giving it to the MOD.
"Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think."
Talking of mental sickness is there no one who can put a stop to this man's prurient obsession? It's rapidly making this site unreadable.
Your own views on Polanski were pretty disturbing.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
A previous Archbishop of York resigned from his current post today, and Welby has recently launched a wide investigation into deviant clergy.
"Talking of mental sickness is there no one who can put a stop to this man's prurient obsession? It's rapidly making this site unreadable" - it almost worked, I thought twice about defending Socrates - but Christ in all these years nothing has been fixed. It is the cover up that is upsetting people. It is not the same as the music teacher buggering little boys.
It's only thousands and thousands of kids raped, and hundreds and hundreds of serial rapists and child torturers walking freely in the streets. National responses and independent inquiries should be restricted for really important stuff, like voicemail hacking. Minor stuff like this should be left to local authorities to investigate their own past failings. That will surely turn over all the stones.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
A previous Archbishop of York resigned from his current post today, and Welby has recently launched a wide investigation into deviant clergy.
@JosiasJessop apparently the "mother ship" landed safely, it was the high altitude vehicle that crashed.Pilot ejected, but injured, co pilot....
Thanks. So unutterably sad. I will read the report (if they actually release it this time) with interest.
I wonder if it'll be anything as basic as the ulmer leather explosions that plagued the X1 and X15 flights at the cost of two lives? The leather was impregnated, and could explode when in contact with liquid oxygen and jarred.
Roger, since you've been warned before about this and ignored it, enjoy an enforced break from the site for the next 24 hours. And then behave when you come back or we'll have to extend it
You realise the Russians are responding in kind to the US exercise 'Global Thunder'?
Does that entail rushing US fighter planes up to the Russian border?
It involves practising a nuclear attack, involving a fleet of bombers and support aircraft in international air space. The USAF have been winding up their friends in the East with surveillance flights too.
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
It's similar to Sir Peter Hall hating Margaret Thatcher because she bought clothes from M & S. It's a kind of Pavlovian reaction that bien pensants have for the English lower middle and working classes.
While there's no shortage of hatred for various political parties - I make no secret of my deep dislike of Labour - people normally have a rational reason for this based on that party's actions in government.
But the visceral hatred of UKIP by much of the middle class is different. With UKIP not having been in government, either nationally or locally, there's no reason to hate them for their actions. Or at least not yet.
Instead the hatred is for what they are and who their voters are.
The wwc.
The role of class politics and the hatred of people different to you should not be underestimated.
As this becomes more apparent we're likely to see voting blocks solidify in Britain:
'progressive' & public sector middle class = Labour conservative & private sector middle class = Conservative wwc = UKIP
In Scotland the SNP will, I suspect, increasingly pick up the wwc vote.
The WWC does not equal UKIP or vice versa.
UKIP is a party led by upper middle class public schoolboys, whose last leader was on old Etonian Lord. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing to the WWC (if such labels are meaningful anymore).
I do not hate kippers whether Public School ex Tory MPs or WWC electricians, but I do dislike their views of the world and would consider a tactical vote against them if I were in a seat like Rochester.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
That depends if you want the perfect candidate to reveal the truth or the perfect candidate to produce a 'lessons have been learnt' whitewash.
I mean the former. I speak of John Sentamu specifically, I would never recommend Justin Welby or Rowan Williams.
In the Survation poll the LD actually get 0.7%, taking in mind that the Monster Raving Loonies had 0.4, 0.4, 1.2 and 0.8% in the last 4 by-election they standed, I would love to see the odds for the Loonies to beat a governing party at an election for the first time, I say 50/50.
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
It's similar to Sir Peter Hall hating Margaret Thatcher because she bought clothes from M & S. It's a kind of Pavlovian reaction that bien pensants have for the English lower middle and working classes.
While there's no shortage of hatred for various political parties - I make no secret of my deep dislike of Labour - people normally have a rational reason for this based on that party's actions in government.
But the visceral hatred of UKIP by much of the middle class is different. With UKIP not having been in government, either nationally or locally, there's no reason to hate them for their actions. Or at least not yet.
Instead the hatred is for what they are and who their voters are.
The wwc.
The role of class politics and the hatred of people different to you should not be underestimated.
As this becomes more apparent we're likely to see voting blocks solidify in Britain:
'progressive' & public sector middle class = Labour conservative & private sector middle class = Conservative wwc = UKIP
In Scotland the SNP will, I suspect, increasingly pick up the wwc vote.
The WWC does not equal UKIP or vice versa.
UKIP is a party led by upper middle class public schoolboys, whose last leader was on old Etonian Lord. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing to the WWC (if such labels are meaningful anymore).
I do not hate kippers whether Public School ex Tory MPs or WWC electricians, but I do dislike their views of the world and would consider a tactical vote against them if I were in a seat like Rochester.
Was that outbreak of flatulence necessary? I think we all already know (over and over again) what you think of KIppers....
Depressing. It must be a horrible thought that you share your living space with so many who share the values of UKIP.
Yep. Must be like PB, only in real life. Grubby and nasty. Yuck.
Ugh. People who think differently. Yuck.
Some people seem to get more upset at living near decent UKIP supporters than living near child molesters. It's a sign of some sort of mental sickness I think.
It's similar to Sir Peter Hall hating Margaret Thatcher because she bought clothes from M & S. It's a kind of Pavlovian reaction that bien pensants have for the English lower middle and working classes.
While there's no shortage of hatred for various political parties - I make no secret of my deep dislike of Labour - people normally have a rational reason for this based on that party's actions in government.
But the visceral hatred of UKIP by much of the middle class is different. With UKIP not having been in government, either nationally or locally, there's no reason to hate them for their actions. Or at least not yet.
Instead the hatred is for what they are and who their voters are.
The wwc.
The role of class politics and the hatred of people different to you should not be underestimated.
As this becomes more apparent we're likely to see voting blocks solidify in Britain:
'progressive' & public sector middle class = Labour conservative & private sector middle class = Conservative wwc = UKIP
In Scotland the SNP will, I suspect, increasingly pick up the wwc vote.
The WWC does not equal UKIP or vice versa.
UKIP is a party led by upper middle class public schoolboys, whose last leader was on old Etonian Lord. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing to the WWC (if such labels are meaningful anymore).
I do not hate kippers whether Public School ex Tory MPs or WWC electricians, but I do dislike their views of the world and would consider a tactical vote against them if I were in a seat like Rochester.
Was that outbreak of flatulence necessary? I think we all already know (over and over again) what you think of KIppers....
The claim that the WWC are equal to UKIP was so risable as to require a response.
But who will the government attempt to put in her place?
The reality, given that there are allegations involving people in the London establishment, virtually any senior lawyer or judge (I am making the assumption that judicial experience would be useful in chairing an inquiry of this nature) will have met people tangentially or directly associated with the subject matter.
But more to the point,now that two qualified people have been dragged through the mud, who is going to let their name go forward?
This is a victory for those who want everything swept under the carpet, nothing more.
Rubbish.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
A previous Archbishop of York resigned from his current post today, and Welby has recently launched a wide investigation into deviant clergy.
The Church is part of the problem.
One can find examples of C of E clergy who molested children. But, I doubt if there has been a huge cover-up about child molestation. Clergy in the Diocese of Chichester have been prosecuted as a result of the Church presenting its internal findings to the police.
Archbishop Sentamu would probably be a good choice.
Comments
You can't get bacon in Dubai. What does it taste like?
'In-flight anomaly' on Virgin SpaceShipTwo
Sad news from the private sector in space travel and exploration. Two pilots believed lost.
Virgin Galactic spacecraft lost during test flight and location of the two pilots is not known - statement
As for Newark it seems likely the Tories had the momentum which would explain that. At this time they clearly do not have the momentum in Rochester
The Challenger disaster is a prime example of cost cutting pressures leading to catastrophic failure.
This isn't poll: it's not even a leading question. This is a push poll.
Quote from the introductory statement: "If the NHS is included as part of this trade agreement, TTIP would provide a mechanism to allow American multinationals, or any firm with American investors, new powers to sue the government if it ever attempted to take privatised health services back into public ownership"
@OGH Perhaps you can invite someone from Survation on to comment / write a header on how they can justify that introductory statement?
EDITL:
@OGH Have now seen your comment at 6:34 that you regard the introductory statement as broadly objective can you explain your views?
One dead, one seriously injured.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29857182
I've said my piece on this project in the past on here, and now's not the time to rehash it. But it just so happens that our friendly rocket engineer is staying with us tonight, and he is both sad and angry.
RIP.
http://www.knightsarrow.com/rockets/scaled-composites-accident/
If you want to make this into a private vs public argument, then I will mention SpaceX, who seem to be going about things in just the right way. Even Orbital Sciences, who had their Antares rocket explode earlier in the week, have a fairly good track record with their other two launchers.
"Cameron should never have personally aligned himself to the Rochester&Strood result. And too many Tories said to me "it will be like Newark"
6:32pm - 31 Oct 14"
https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodwinMJ
― John Glenn
http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/live-video/
So, the public are craving for this kind of democracy. What a waste of public funds !
Oh, and Labour stuffed everyone else despite them equating the child abuse with Labour !
And, UKIP were going to win in the North ?
Punters now think UKIP polling 50-55% is more likely than <40%:
http://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/market?id=1.115925336
I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a detailed view on the NHS and TTIP. In general, I'm a fan of trade treaties, but I haven't researched the details here.
But if you believe the face results of this poll given the intro you'd be making a mistake
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_White_Knight_Two
apparently the "mother ship" landed safely, it was the high altitude vehicle that crashed.Pilot ejected, but injured, co pilot....
Wiki's overview of TTIP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership
The EU's view of ISDS
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2013/october/tradoc_151791.pdf
Unite's View of ISDS
http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/new-poll-shows-nhs-is-the-top-priority-in-rochester--strood/
It is also a very long way from Carswells libertarian vision of free trade with the world.
Credible pollsters shouldn't.
I'm not ashamed to say I don't have a detailed view on the NHS and TTIP. In general, I'm a fan of trade treaties, but I haven't researched the details here.
But if you believe the face results of this poll given the intro you'd be making a mistake
There is no such thing as 'credible pollsters' by your seeming standards
I've posted some relevant stuff on TTIP and ISDS but you crying foul over this is absurd.
How many times have pollsters misrepresented people's views about the EU by giving a simplistic in or out headline to a poll (as Mori did last week) when in reality the situation is far more nuanced. How many times have pollsters falsely implied that options preferred by voters are attainable whilst remaining members of the EU when in reality they are not and never will be?
You can't have it all ways.
"British savers are 'worst in Europe'
We save just 9.9 per cent of everything we earn – less than half the proportion in France and below the levels in troubled nations such as Spain and Portugal "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/11202098/British-savers-are-worst-in-Europe.html
http://ukipdaily.com/british-art-british-decadence/
British Art and British Decadence, a view.
Dig a little deeper, and what is envisaged might be better described as a mercantilist arrangement, drawn up by officaldom on both sides of the Atlantic. Far from free trade with mutual standard recognition, the small print is all about common standards, which define under what conditions transatlantic trade is permitted.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/douglascarswellmp/100222214/what-could-be-better-than-an-eu-us-trade-deal-free-trade-actually/
I predicted a Labour win because there's still enough of the heritage "our family's always been Labour, they're the party of the working class" vote left.
But I underestimated the amount of middle class hatred in Sheffield for UKIP.
The irony is that Labour's working class voters still vote Labour because they think its the party of the working class.
While Labour's middle class supporters vote Labour because they hate UKIP for being the wwc party.
Thereby hangs a tale. We've had two detailed reports recently suggesting that privately educated graduates earn more than their State-educated counterparts - but, the extra earnings don't outstrip the fees that the parents pay.
The cunning well-off parent surely shops around for the best State schools, buys private tuition as necessary, and saves the fees.
There was a tremendous exhibition on this theme in London a couple of years ago.
http://www.standard.co.uk/goingout/exhibitions/brian-sewell-on-amongst-heroes-the-artist-in-working-cornwall-two-temple-place-8455061.html
But the visceral hatred of UKIP by much of the middle class is different. With UKIP not having been in government, either nationally or locally, there's no reason to hate them for their actions. Or at least not yet.
Instead the hatred is for what they are and who their voters are.
The wwc.
The role of class politics and the hatred of people different to you should not be underestimated.
As this becomes more apparent we're likely to see voting blocks solidify in Britain:
'progressive' & public sector middle class = Labour
conservative & private sector middle class = Conservative
wwc = UKIP
In Scotland the SNP will, I suspect, increasingly pick up the wwc vote.
A friend of Brittan's would not have worked, for many more alleged reasons than the fact that he binned the initial report. It's an uttter farce that this lady was considered, and the editing and re-editing of her letter to distance her from the Brittans is grotesque.
The Archbishop of York is the perfect candidate. Legal background, unimpeachable good name, previous enquiry chairing experience, not from the political class.
Can anyone claiming that please provide some evidence ?
From within South Yorkshire the UKIP campaign seemed, bar one leaflet received, pretty invisible. An unimpressive effort with a unimpressive candidate.
On the other hand there's been reports of Labour bringing in activists all week, organising postal votes etc.
While this poll looks poor for them, it could easily be a lot worse. Still 20 days for UKIP to increase the lead or for the Cons to peg them back. Much too early to draw conclusions.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1MnCY2IMAAip_3.png
The Church is part of the problem.
I wonder if it'll be anything as basic as the ulmer leather explosions that plagued the X1 and X15 flights at the cost of two lives? The leather was impregnated, and could explode when in contact with liquid oxygen and jarred.
The Russkies are behaving no differently.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11200800/Britains-net-payments-to-EU-soar-by-a-third-in-a-year-ONS-figures-show.html
UKIP is a party led by upper middle class public schoolboys, whose last leader was on old Etonian Lord. It is a wolf in sheeps clothing to the WWC (if such labels are meaningful anymore).
I do not hate kippers whether Public School ex Tory MPs or WWC electricians, but I do dislike their views of the world and would consider a tactical vote against them if I were in a seat like Rochester.
oh......
Archbishop Sentamu would probably be a good choice.