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Losing your deposit no longer the negative it was – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,689
edited July 2023 in General
imageLosing your deposit no longer the negative it was – politicalbetting.com

It used to be that losing your deposit in a parliamentary by-election was seen a bad sign for the future of the party. To save it a candidate needs to secure 5% or more of the overall vote.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    edited July 2023
    1st.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    On topic, who still remembers the @LibDemDeposits Twitter thread from 2015 election night?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430
    The ladies' world soccerball cup England vs Haiti is currently on ITV.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,022
    Unless showers develop over the Irish Sea (the opposite of what is happening currently) or the wind direction changes, that dry slot seems to be heading for Manchester?
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816
    Looks like Manchester forecast broadly dry between around 12 and 15.30. Between inspections, early lunches and the like, the possibility of some play in the afternoon session??
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like Manchester forecast broadly dry between around 12 and 15.30. Between inspections, early lunches and the like, the possibility of some play in the afternoon session??

    Hopefully they’ve brought in extra ground staff, and can take advantage of any break in the weather, even if it’s only a few overs at a time.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Very guilty LOL


    All the staff at my cinema are in barbie themed outfits (ie mostly pink). Not seen that sort of thing since Star Wars.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,430
    edited July 2023

    The ladies' world soccerball cup England vs Haiti is currently on ITV.

    Penalty for England. ETA: miss and retake.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    Unless showers develop over the Irish Sea (the opposite of what is happening currently) or the wind direction changes, that dry slot seems to be heading for Manchester?

    Hooray! They deserve a chance of victory at least.
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,230
    this use of VAR is really a nonsense - against the spirit of the game?
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    The ladies' world soccerball cup England vs Haiti is currently on ITV.

    Lots of tedious messing about with VAR.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,816
    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like Manchester forecast broadly dry between around 12 and 15.30. Between inspections, early lunches and the like, the possibility of some play in the afternoon session??

    Also the Sunday forecast, which had looked like a wash out yesterday, does seem to have an opening after 3pm. Not sure how literally to take such exact patterns at this stage but fingers crossed.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,216
    FPT

    Anyway off topic, if anyone is interested in farming and the Lake District (and if you aren't, what the hell is wrong with you!), the book "Forty Farms" (by Amy Bateman) is for you. It tells the stories of different farms in the Lakes, their history, their sheep, cattle and other farming businesses, the valley and hills they farm, the local nature etc. And with beautiful photos, too. And it really explains how and why they survive and why that connection between land and people matters.

    In his book "A Shepherd's Life" James Rebanks writes very movingly about the attachment to and love of land and why success should not just be measured by how easily people move away from a place where their families have been for generations and have have made. That chapter is one of the best things I have ever read - not just in how it is written but in what it says and what it has made me think about over the years, to me the mark of great writing.

    I know some of the families featured. But even without that connection it is genuinely interesting.

    Contrast that with what Rory Stewart said Truss told him when she was made responsible for the rural affairs portfolio - that she didn't believe in it. It is that contempt that so many politicians seem to have for the land they live in and the people who live there that leads to electoral disaster. It is happening to the Tories now but it will happen to other parties too (see the Greens in Brighton).
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    The vinaigrette dressing theory of politics.

    Conservatives want Lib and Lab votes jumbled up geographically (1983, 2019). When they are separated out into different places (1992, 2017), it's much less tasty a prospect.

    On that basis, Sunak's salad for 2024/5 looks rather limp and unenticing. I don't think adding raw meat will help much. (Leaving the analogy behind, going red meat seems set to make anti blue voters even more tactically determined.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,232
    Jonny Dymond was very unimpressed that Labour had lost their deposit at Somerton and Frome on BBC WATO yesterday.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Very guilty LOL


    That is very blackly funny.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820
    The conclusion from OGH is almost certainly. In fact, formal deals might be counter productive in some areas. And people have shown at by elections and GEs they can collectively figure out the best anti-X strategy, even if it means picking the previous third place option.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,230

    Jonny Dymond was very unimpressed that Labour had lost their deposit at Somerton and Frome on BBC WATO yesterday.

    ugh another pompous public school boy lecturing the plebs
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    I am so dim. I used to wonder why the Sydney to Hobart race is in the middle of winter, and I have only just realised that the Manhattan guys thought for 97% of the project that they were working on an anti-Hitler bomb, not anti-Hirohito.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,022
    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like Manchester forecast broadly dry between around 12 and 15.30. Between inspections, early lunches and the like, the possibility of some play in the afternoon session??

    Radar would agree
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    kle4 said:

    Very guilty LOL


    All the staff at my cinema are in barbie themed outfits (ie mostly pink). Not seen that sort of thing since Star Wars.
    Same. Every Barbie and Oppenheimer screening were sold at the Printworks last might.
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Is there any level of drizzle at all such that it is technically raining, but so invisibly that play is permitted? I am guessing not.
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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    On topic: figuring out who's best placed to stuff the Tories in your locality isn't always straightforward, even where there haven't been radical boundary changes. Round these parts Labour were second last time, but the Lib Dems occupied that place until 2010, still managed to save their deposit in 2015 and bounced back fairly strongly last time around. If there is a Tory rout then one can nonetheless imagine quite a few sitting Conservatives coming through the middle in seats that become three-way marginals and holding on.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Looks like Manchester forecast broadly dry between around 12 and 15.30. Between inspections, early lunches and the like, the possibility of some play in the afternoon session??

    Also the Sunday forecast, which had looked like a wash out yesterday, does seem to have an opening after 3pm. Not sure how literally to take such exact patterns at this stage but fingers crossed.
    I would imagine the nall will move quite a bit if they play this afternoon.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,458
    Miklosvar said:

    I am so dim. I used to wonder why the Sydney to Hobart race is in the middle of winter, and I have only just realised that the Manhattan guys thought for 97% of the project that they were working on an anti-Hitler bomb, not anti-Hirohito.

    Anti-Tojo - that’s how people saw it at the time. Much as the Italian king was ignored as a figurehead.

    It is interesting how the Fascist element in military government of Japan is now studious ignored.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Sadly for us the war does not seem to be going well in ukraine at the moment. Ive just read this from Richard Kemp of the telegraph who was previously optimistic.

    Ukraine’s counter-offensive is failing, with no easy fixes

    Kyiv complains that it doesn’t have air power, but that is not the real source of its recent struggles

    RICHARD KEMP21 July 2023 • 6:35pm

    With no significant breakthrough after six weeks, it is worth asking whether Ukraine’s counter-offensive can ever succeed, for it certainly doesn’t look to be succeeding now. 

    Compare the glacial but costly progress today to the lightning victories at Kharkiv and Kherson last autumn. Back then Kyiv’s forces were advancing against a withdrawing enemy that was pulling back to redeploy troops, trading space for time. Having now built up their forces through mobilisation and dug extensive defence lines, this time the Russians aren’t going anywhere. 

    That has left Ukraine with one option: launching frontal attacks against heavily defended positions, almost akin to the Western Front in World War I where trench lines ran continuously from Switzerland to the sea, with neither side achieving a decisive breakthrough for four years. Such an outcome today would leave Kyiv vulnerable to shifts in Western opinion, given the possibility of a Trump presidency or European fatigue. This is something President Zelensky must be aware of; and is perhaps causing great consternation. 

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,458
    Tres said:

    Jonny Dymond was very unimpressed that Labour had lost their deposit at Somerton and Frome on BBC WATO yesterday.

    ugh another pompous public school boy lecturing the plebs
    Head Count.

    Plenty of Plebeians have enough land to pass The Censors and get their seat in the Senate.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    It only took 16 posts.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,458
    Sean_F said:

    Very guilty LOL


    That is very blackly funny.
    It was a very well illuminated, if brief event. Not dark at all…
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,820

    kle4 said:

    Very guilty LOL


    All the staff at my cinema are in barbie themed outfits (ie mostly pink). Not seen that sort of thing since Star Wars.
    Same. Every Barbie and Oppenheimer screening were sold at the Printworks last might.
    Mine are still only half full - but that's packed compared to most movies round here.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    Lost deposit can be a badge of honour if it means your supersmart supporters have all worked out how best to defeat the sitting tory.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    pigeon said:

    On topic: figuring out who's best placed to stuff the Tories in your locality isn't always straightforward, even where there haven't been radical boundary changes. Round these parts Labour were second last time, but the Lib Dems occupied that place until 2010, still managed to save their deposit in 2015 and bounced back fairly strongly last time around. If there is a Tory rout then one can nonetheless imagine quite a few sitting Conservatives coming through the middle in seats that become three-way marginals and holding on.

    Not all voters, but enough voters in enough places. The main difference from '83 to '92 and from '15 to '17 to '19 wasn't the Conservative vote share, it was the willingness of Lib and Lab votes to think of themselves as interchangable anti-blue voters. Trying to force the issue is probably counter productive.

    Sometimes I think FPTP is a terrible system given that a key mechanism is so obscure and hidden. Sometimes I think that it's bloody brilliant.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    And there is this i have seen too.

    Zelensky is already on the brink due to mass desertion and disobedience to the Armed Forces of Ukraine - McGregor " Zelensky's leadership is being called into question. Ukrainian officers shoot soldiers who refuse to go into battle. There are a huge number of deserters who surrender in whole platoons," Douglas McGregor said in his video blog. He noted that Ukrainians willingly go to the Russians, who treat them well. This helps the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine not to follow the meaningless orders of the Kyiv leadership and survive.

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682673758178353152?s=20
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    boulayboulay Posts: 3,962
    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I had high hopes for you lasting the day, Octopus, but looks like you are going to be bowled out in the morning session.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    edited July 2023
    Gosh, that was a sudden swerve.

    #todayissaturday

    ETA: And I'm not talking about the Jiggery Pokery ball feature currently running on TMS.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,205
    Sandpit said:

    It only took 16 posts.

    I think he will be lucky to make another 16 !
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Ukraine is in ruins. Its latest counteroffensive achieved nothing. In the last three weeks, an estimated 26,000 Ukrainian soldiers died in pointless attacks against world-class Russian defenses.

    https://twitter.com/DougAMacgregor/status/1682457954182676483?s=20
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    Octopus said:

    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20

    Which is why Russia is mobilising 70 year olds.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Putin: the opinion of the inhabitants of Ukraine is slowly and gradually changing, sobering comes, as in Europe Gradually society comes to sobering up - and not only Ukrainian, but also Western. “The so-called support for Ukraine is a dead end. In fact, this is serving the interests of others,” the president said.

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682339251621359616?s=20
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    edited July 2023
    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
    Yes but you wont be doing the fighting its ukrainian men who are dying.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    boulay said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I had high hopes for you lasting the day, Octopus, but looks like you are going to be bowled out in the morning session.
    Being quite so leggie, he's a specialist spinner; probably can't bat.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Octopus said:

    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
    Yes but you wont be doing the fighting its ukrainian men who are dying.
    It’s mostly the Russian men who are dying. 300,000 of them so far, including ten generals.
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Octopus said:

    Putin: the opinion of the inhabitants of Ukraine is slowly and gradually changing, sobering comes, as in Europe Gradually society comes to sobering up - and not only Ukrainian, but also Western. “The so-called support for Ukraine is a dead end. In fact, this is serving the interests of others,” the president said.

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682339251621359616?s=20

    you are on a piece rate, aren't you? you don't get paid for the initial astroturfing posts about the cricket, but it's $4 a pop for the actual Ukraine ones, which is why once you've started you fire them out like a gatling gun to maximise your take before the ban.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,906
    Octopus said:

    Ukraine is in ruins. Its latest counteroffensive achieved nothing. In the last three weeks, an estimated 26,000 Ukrainian soldiers died in pointless attacks against world-class Russian defenses.

    https://twitter.com/DougAMacgregor/status/1682457954182676483?s=20

    Do you agree that Greggs meal deal of hot sandwich, potato wedges and a coffee is the best on the British High Street? £4.80.

    Close runner up is the Sainsbury's Brie, Bacon and Chili Chutney sandwich, sour cream pringles and innocent smoothie at £3.50. Co-op is also good value, as their "snacks" are much more substantial than their competitors at £4.
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,759
    Miklosvar said:

    Is there any level of drizzle at all such that it is technically raining, but so invisibly that play is permitted? I am guessing not.

    There's a subtle distinction between how wet it must be before you walk off and how dry it must be before you walk back on.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,448
    Sandpit said:

    It only took 16 posts.

    They do seem to spend a little more time finessing the forum. Seems a shame to turn on 'Vlad-LLM' and lose the cred.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    The President of the Russian Federation noted that it is obvious that the Western curators of the Kyiv regime are disappointed with the results of the so-called Ukrainian counter-offensive. “Neither the colossal resources that were pumped into the Kiev regime, nor the supply of Western weapons, nor the sending of thousands of mercenaries help,” he said. The whole world sees that Western technology is on fire, Putin added.

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682333269939871745?s=20
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,500
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I had high hopes for you lasting the day, Octopus, but looks like you are going to be bowled out in the morning session.
    Being quite so leggie, he's a specialist spinner; probably can't bat.
    I think his comments are utterly bats.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,045
    Octopus said:

    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20

    When quoting a supposed 'direct quote', it's a good idea to actually show the original source of the quote, not someone claiming it is a 'direct quote'.

    For instance, *this* is a direct quote from the White House:

    "Octopus is a brainless Russian shill, who is wetting his pants in fear that he will be sent to Ukraine to be killed for the glory of hyper-rich oligarchs who do not care for their country."

    There. It's a fact because it's a direct quote from the White House. ... ;)
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Musk is concerned

    want the best outcome for the people. Russia has at least 4 times the artillery of Ukraine and 10 times the ammunition. We have run out of normal ammunition to send Ukraine, so now send them cluster bombs in desperation, debasing ourselves with no change to the outcome.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1680283620504915968?s=20
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Serious question is what do we do now. Do we continue to fight a futile war losing many ukrainian men or do we reluctantly push for peace and a freezing of the conflict.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    Octopus said:

    Sadly for us the war does not seem to be going well in ukraine at the moment. Ive just read this from Richard Kemp of the telegraph who was previously optimistic.

    Ukraine’s counter-offensive is failing, with no easy fixes

    Kyiv complains that it doesn’t have air power, but that is not the real source of its recent struggles

    RICHARD KEMP21 July 2023 • 6:35pm

    With no significant breakthrough after six weeks, it is worth asking whether Ukraine’s counter-offensive can ever succeed, for it certainly doesn’t look to be succeeding now. 

    Compare the glacial but costly progress today to the lightning victories at Kharkiv and Kherson last autumn. Back then Kyiv’s forces were advancing against a withdrawing enemy that was pulling back to redeploy troops, trading space for time. Having now built up their forces through mobilisation and dug extensive defence lines, this time the Russians aren’t going anywhere. 

    That has left Ukraine with one option: launching frontal attacks against heavily defended positions, almost akin to the Western Front in World War I where trench lines ran continuously from Switzerland to the sea, with neither side achieving a decisive breakthrough for four years. Such an outcome today would leave Kyiv vulnerable to shifts in Western opinion, given the possibility of a Trump presidency or European fatigue. This is something President Zelensky must be aware of; and is perhaps causing great consternation. 

    Except this is nonsense. The counteroffensive in Kherson began in August and Russia withdrew in November.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    Octopus said:

    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
    Yes but you wont be doing the fighting its ukrainian men who are dying.
    Ukraine has chosen to fight your bunch of fascists - having experienced what it's like to be ruled by them.
    I know that came as a surprise to the master strategist in the Kremlin.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Octopus said:

    Serious question is what do we do now. Do we continue to fight a futile war losing many Russian men or do we reluctantly push for peace and a freezing of the conflict.

    FTFY.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    rcs1000 said:

    Octopus said:

    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
    Yes but you wont be doing the fighting its ukrainian men who are dying.
    Just as a matter of interest, how many young Russians is too many to sacrifice to end up temporarily controlling a country that doesn't want you there?
    Oh my main man. How many ukrainians are you prepared to sacrifice in this futilecwar.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    Just a question and one that Octopus with his marine name may have an interest in - why doesn't Turkey just close the Bosphorus to Russian ships if they can't sustain the grain deal?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,082
    Octopus said:

    Serious question is what do we do now. Do we continue to fight a futile war losing many ukrainian men or do we reluctantly push for peace and a freezing of the conflict.

    Are things going that badly for Russia that they want to freeze the conflict?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
    Hell yes.

    Brilliant apart from a two minute scene that made Harry S. Truman look like a snivelling little shit.
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Octopus said:

    Serious question is what do we do now. Do we continue to fight a futile war losing many ukrainian men or do we reluctantly push for peace and a freezing of the conflict.

    And whoever pays you searches for the string ukrain to see whether a post qualifies or not, which is why it's shoehorned into every post.
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    OctopusOctopus Posts: 27
    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Nigelb said:

    Octopus said:

    Serious question is how many men does ukraine sacrifice for a perhaps futile cause and whether it would be better to freeze things as they are. Disappointing and not ideal though.

    I seem to remember the mass murderer Putin making very much that argument after he seized Crimea.
    How did that work out for 'freezing' things ?

    Octopuses are charming animals; Russian concern trolls are not.
    Yes but you wont be doing the fighting its ukrainian men who are dying.
    Ukraine has chosen to fight your bunch of fascists - having experienced what it's like to be ruled by them.
    I know that came as a surprise to the master strategist in the Kremlin.
    And they may have to live under them now as a destroyed state. Sad but true.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,675
    Octopus said:

    Musk is concerned

    want the best outcome for the people. Russia has at least 4 times the artillery of Ukraine and 10 times the ammunition. We have run out of normal ammunition to send Ukraine, so now send them cluster bombs in desperation, debasing ourselves with no change to the outcome.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1680283620504915968?s=20

    Given Musk’s track record, if he’s concerned, that must mean things are going fantastically well for the Ukrainians.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472

    Octopus said:

    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20

    When quoting a supposed 'direct quote', it's a good idea to actually show the original source of the quote, not someone claiming it is a 'direct quote'.

    For instance, *this* is a direct quote from the White House:

    "Octopus is a brainless Russian shill, who is wetting his pants in fear that he will be sent to Ukraine to be killed for the glory of hyper-rich oligarchs who do not care for their country."

    There. It's a fact because it's a direct quote from the White House. ... ;)
    Someone (Dura?) posted the fairly convincing theory that these posters are based in Africa rather than Russia.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    kle4 said:

    Very guilty LOL


    All the staff at my cinema are in barbie themed outfits (ie mostly pink). Not seen that sort of thing since Star Wars.
    Same. Every Barbie and Oppenheimer screening were sold at the Printworks last might.
    I've booked tickets for Barbie tomorrow in Plymouth and almost all the seats were available.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,015
    Octopus said:

    And there is this i have seen too.

    Zelensky is already on the brink due to mass desertion and disobedience to the Armed Forces of Ukraine - McGregor " Zelensky's leadership is being called into question. Ukrainian officers shoot soldiers who refuse to go into battle. There are a huge number of deserters who surrender in whole platoons," Douglas McGregor said in his video blog. He noted that Ukrainians willingly go to the Russians, who treat them well. This helps the military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine not to follow the meaningless orders of the Kyiv leadership and survive.

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682673758178353152?s=20

    Our weekly Russian idiot.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907

    Octopus said:

    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20

    When quoting a supposed 'direct quote', it's a good idea to actually show the original source of the quote, not someone claiming it is a 'direct quote'.

    For instance, *this* is a direct quote from the White House:

    "Octopus is a brainless Russian shill, who is wetting his pants in fear that he will be sent to Ukraine to be killed for the glory of hyper-rich oligarchs who do not care for their country."

    There. It's a fact because it's a direct quote from the White House. ... ;)
    Someone (Dura?) posted the fairly convincing theory that these posters are based in Africa rather than Russia.
    His theory is that they’re British-based African students. They can watch the cricket and know about Parliamentary by-elections, but they’re getting paid for the pro-Russian trolling.

    Summer holiday now though.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,230

    Tres said:

    Jonny Dymond was very unimpressed that Labour had lost their deposit at Somerton and Frome on BBC WATO yesterday.

    ugh another pompous public school boy lecturing the plebs
    Head Count.

    Plenty of Plebeians have enough land to pass The Censors and get their seat in the Senate.
    we are in AD now
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    Gosh, that was a sudden swerve.

    #todayissaturday

    ETA: And I'm not talking about the Jiggery Pokery ball feature currently running on TMS.

    It's funny because you could tell right from the start which way he was going to go, so it was fun waiting for the pivot.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited July 2023

    kle4 said:

    Very guilty LOL


    All the staff at my cinema are in barbie themed outfits (ie mostly pink). Not seen that sort of thing since Star Wars.
    Same. Every Barbie and Oppenheimer screening were sold at the Printworks last might.
    I've booked tickets for Barbie tomorrow in Plymouth and almost all the seats were available.
    Printworks right now for Barbie.




  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 1,943
    edited July 2023
    I give this current offensive in the Russia-Ukraine war another half an hour or so before the inevitable banhammer falls.

    Do you only get paid for comments that remain in place Octopus, or is just posting them in the first place sufficient to earn your piece rate?

    (edit) ... and he’s gone.
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    TWO and met office now agree dry window 1300-1600
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,013

    Octopus said:

    This is a direct quote from the white house.

    Ukraine is losing significant forces as part of its counteroffensive - White House

    https://twitter.com/SpriterTeam/status/1682474923028099072?s=20

    When quoting a supposed 'direct quote', it's a good idea to actually show the original source of the quote, not someone claiming it is a 'direct quote'.

    For instance, *this* is a direct quote from the White House:

    "Octopus is a brainless Russian shill, who is wetting his pants in fear that he will be sent to Ukraine to be killed for the glory of hyper-rich oligarchs who do not care for their country."

    There. It's a fact because it's a direct quote from the White House. ... ;)
    Someone (Dura?) posted the fairly convincing theory that these posters are based in Africa rather than Russia.
    A few months ago, one drifted into a Russian rant, telling us all to go fuck ourselves.

    So I think it's a real mixture: some genuine Russians, some troll farms from low cost parts of the world.

    What they almost all have in common is that their IP addresses are on blacklists of compromised computers.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,251
    Eabhal said:

    Octopus said:

    Ukraine is in ruins. Its latest counteroffensive achieved nothing. In the last three weeks, an estimated 26,000 Ukrainian soldiers died in pointless attacks against world-class Russian defenses.

    https://twitter.com/DougAMacgregor/status/1682457954182676483?s=20

    Do you agree that Greggs meal deal of hot sandwich, potato wedges and a coffee is the best on the British High Street? £4.80.

    Close runner up is the Sainsbury's Brie, Bacon and Chili Chutney sandwich, sour cream pringles and innocent smoothie at £3.50. Co-op is also good value, as their "snacks" are much more substantial than their competitors at £4.
    And the Tesco Meal Deal. Still a player even after the price hike. On the COLIV crisis though, a quick but relevant observation from me:

    The M&S 'dine in for a tenner' used to be starter, main, side, pudding and a bottle of wine. This has become 'the £12 bistro' which is main, side, pudding OR starter, and no wine whatsoever.

    The inflation there, when you unravel and extrapolate, is absolutely terrifying.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 3,997
    Miklosvar said:

    Is there any level of drizzle at all such that it is technically raining, but so invisibly that play is permitted? I am guessing not.

    We currently have what in Ayrshire we call a wee smirr. Probably not enough to stop play, but too much to restart if play is already stopped.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330
    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


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    TresTres Posts: 2,230
    feedback seems to be the barbie film is utterly bewildering to the under 10s
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    Leon said:

    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


    You sure? Not a film set? Those look like Polish soldiers in WW2. The bolt-action rifles are also a giveaway.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,598
    edited July 2023
    I'll FPT this one, though I'm out for a couple of hours. I'll address replies after lunch, if anyone is interested.

    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mr. Pete, worth remembering the UK has generally very positive views of migrants, including compared to other European nations.

    Also, I think you're misreading this, though understandably.

    For what it's worth, my view is this is a cost of living matter, and one that (unusually) can be laid squarely on Labour's door. It's highly specific to areas involed in ULEZ expansion. For most people, cost of living is food inflation, energy prices, and mortgage rates getting hiked.

    How anyone in labour thought a £12.50 a day tax on using your car or van to go about your legal business was a good idea amazes me
    The desired outcome is laudable, but execution has been pathetic. Likewise 20mph in Wales. Dreadfully poorly implemented and pitch rolling. It's like Rishi suggested yesterday, Labour-Starmer arrogance and hubris will deliver Rishi the GE. Sheffield Rally anyone?
    The problem is that labour cannot stop being authoritarian when common sense should be the word
    It’s going to blow your mind when you find out who introduced ULEZ.

    Boris never proposed extending ULEZ to the London suburbs, it was only for inner London, it is Khan who has extended it to outer London
    Why is introducing ULEZ in inner London less authoritarian than doing it in outer London?

    Because IT IS. We have to do something about pollution so lets tax polluting cars. Huzzah. No no, not my car, their car.
    You are able to afford to drive a Tesla but attack those who cannot afford a ULEZ compliant car !!!
    We've done this. 20 year old bangers are ULEZ compliant. The political argument is that ULEZ is a tax on the working poor. The working poor generally do not have a car in London. Those who do either find that it is already compliant, or had to change car to one slightly newer because you can't daily drive something ancient and non-compliant as the running cost becomes prohibitive.

    I accept there will be a few edge cases - some diesels which really aren't suitable for local running about in London anyway. But almost all of the supposed victims of this are not victims.
    What is revealing in some of the anti-ULEZ arguments is that people can't seem to conceive of the fact that most poor people in London don't even have a car. It's as if these people don't even exist.
    Personally I find the cast of characters arguing against ULEZs - Susan Hall, Howard Cox, Foxy-Loxy and the Association of Bad Drivers - to be quite encouraging :smile: .

    Now off out. Have a good day, all.
    This divisive style of politics is self defeating. The chance of ULEZ being kept for 10 years+ is less because its champions are happy getting enough support to pass it, rather than bringing more of the public with them.

    Yes many of the anti ULEZ people are idiots, but that does not mean ULEZ fans do not have an obligation to listen to and where possible address complaints.
    I think ULEZ will have done it's job and be non-controversial within quite a short period. If the Govt targets are met, we will have broken the back of NOx pollution reduction by 2026-2028.

    This issue I have is that I have yet to hear a single credible argument against the LTN in London, or an alternative proposal, given the 2028 target for LAs set by the Conservative Government.

    Susan Hall seems to me to be either a fool, an ignoramus or a cynic - as she has claimed she will do things that the London Mayor does not have the power to do.

    I'm inclined to a similar assessment of Mark Harper, based on what he has done so far. The ABD and Howard Cox's group are pantomime performers.

    AFAICS all they have is the aim to create a divisive wedge issue and hope that enough people fall for it, which is why I keep calling it a Hail Mary pass. I suspect that is what we can also expect from Govt for the next year.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330
    edited July 2023
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


    You sure? Not a film set? Those look like Polish soldiers in WW2. The bolt-action rifles are also a giveaway.
    I guess they’re down to the reserves. This whole town feels unreal - like all border towns next to a war, I guess. Like everyone is playing a pre-ordained role


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    While centrist swing voters may now vote for whichever of Labour or the LDs are closest to the Tories as they want a change of government I don’t think that is true for ideological left wingers.

    After the 2010 Tory and LD coalition government they still don’t trust the Liberal Democrats and will therefore stick to voting Labour regardless or Green if they are Corbynistas who think Starmer too right wing
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    Tres said:

    feedback seems to be the barbie film is utterly bewildering to the under 10s

    It is a brilliant film.

    Contains a wonderful homage to 2001: Space Odyssey.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


    You sure? Not a film set? Those look like Polish soldiers in WW2. The bolt-action rifles are also a giveaway.
    I guess they’re down to the reserves. This whole town feels unreal - like all border towns next to a war, I guess. Like everyone is playing pre-ordained role


    That tank needs to have a bit more armour attached, before it heads back to the front line.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,047
    If Nato isn't prepared, in spite of its enormous naval supremacy in the region, to stand up to Russia in and around the Black sea, what message does that send to China over Taiwan?
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    MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


    You sure? Not a film set? Those look like Polish soldiers in WW2. The bolt-action rifles are also a giveaway.
    And non camo, and puttees. Extras for sure.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
    Hell yes.

    Brilliant apart from a two minute scene that made Harry S. Truman look like a snivelling little shit.

    Doesn’t the movie completely ignore the fact that Oppenheimer was a commie and someone leaked the nuke secrets to Stalin?

    Not that this makes it necessarily a bad film. Quite an omission if true, tho (I have not seen it)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,030
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT

    Anyway off topic, if anyone is interested in farming and the Lake District (and if you aren't, what the hell is wrong with you!), the book "Forty Farms" (by Amy Bateman) is for you. It tells the stories of different farms in the Lakes, their history, their sheep, cattle and other farming businesses, the valley and hills they farm, the local nature etc. And with beautiful photos, too. And it really explains how and why they survive and why that connection between land and people matters.

    In his book "A Shepherd's Life" James Rebanks writes very movingly about the attachment to and love of land and why success should not just be measured by how easily people move away from a place where their families have been for generations and have have made. That chapter is one of the best things I have ever read - not just in how it is written but in what it says and what it has made me think about over the years, to me the mark of great writing.

    I know some of the families featured. But even without that connection it is genuinely interesting.

    Contrast that with what Rory Stewart said Truss told him when she was made responsible for the rural affairs portfolio - that she didn't believe in it. It is that contempt that so many politicians seem to have for the land they live in and the people who live there that leads to electoral disaster. It is happening to the Tories now but it will happen to other parties too (see the Greens in Brighton).

    Hence why Truss would have seen the Tories near wiped out had she remained leader, losing traditionally Conservative rural areas as well as swing seats in the suburbs and towns due to her budget disaster.

    Truss was always more of an ideological laissez faire libertarian than a traditional conservative Tory


  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,501
    edited July 2023
    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
    Hell yes.

    Brilliant apart from a two minute scene that made Harry S. Truman look like a snivelling little shit.

    Doesn’t the movie completely ignore the fact that Oppenheimer was a commie and someone leaked the nuke secrets to Stalin?

    Not that this makes it necessarily a bad film. Quite an omission if true, tho (I have not seen it)
    The whole fucking film is about Oppy being a Commie, and his wife, mistress, brother, sister in law, and his friends.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,803
    Miklosvar said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Ukrainian troops resting up here. Going back into the war after much needed R&R


    You sure? Not a film set? Those look like Polish soldiers in WW2. The bolt-action rifles are also a giveaway.
    And non camo, and puttees. Extras for sure.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325698067015?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=325698067015&targetid=1278724506660&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045177&poi=&campaignid=9446017636&mkgroupid=125619933787&rlsatarget=pla-1278724506660&abcId=578896&merchantid=6995734&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIhq-71piigAMVh5JoCR2c5wfXEAQYAiABEgKTZPD_BwE
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330
    It’s all quite bizarre

    As far as I can tell they’re having a re-enactment here of the Nazi Occupation. Complete with dudes in Nazi uniforms

    I’m in Przemysl - a few miles from the Ukrainian border. For context, 20,000 Jews died here, under the Nazis. A third of the town’s population



  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,472
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT

    Anyway off topic, if anyone is interested in farming and the Lake District (and if you aren't, what the hell is wrong with you!), the book "Forty Farms" (by Amy Bateman) is for you. It tells the stories of different farms in the Lakes, their history, their sheep, cattle and other farming businesses, the valley and hills they farm, the local nature etc. And with beautiful photos, too. And it really explains how and why they survive and why that connection between land and people matters.

    In his book "A Shepherd's Life" James Rebanks writes very movingly about the attachment to and love of land and why success should not just be measured by how easily people move away from a place where their families have been for generations and have have made. That chapter is one of the best things I have ever read - not just in how it is written but in what it says and what it has made me think about over the years, to me the mark of great writing.

    I know some of the families featured. But even without that connection it is genuinely interesting.

    Contrast that with what Rory Stewart said Truss told him when she was made responsible for the rural affairs portfolio - that she didn't believe in it. It is that contempt that so many politicians seem to have for the land they live in and the people who live there that leads to electoral disaster. It is happening to the Tories now but it will happen to other parties too (see the Greens in Brighton).

    Hence why Truss would have seen the Tories near wiped out had she remained leader, losing traditionally Conservative rural areas as well as swing seats in the suburbs and towns due to her budget disaster.

    Truss was always more of an ideological laissez faire libertarian than a traditional conservative Tory

    *sigh* I'll bite.

    You really think Truss disclosing to Rory Stewart that she was cynical about the Rural Affairs part of her brief nearly 10 years ago has any bearing whatsoever on the likelihood of her hypothetical success there in the 2025 election? That's an argument so weak it doesn't even class as clutching a straw.

    You need to forgive yourself for supporting Sunak. It seemed right to you at the time, as it did to many others. What counts now is looking forward, beyond him. Ideally, beyond him will come before the Tory wipeout.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,667
    edited July 2023
    .

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
    Hell yes.

    Brilliant apart from a two minute scene that made Harry S. Truman look like a snivelling little shit.

    Doesn’t the movie completely ignore the fact that Oppenheimer was a commie and someone leaked the nuke secrets to Stalin?

    Not that this makes it necessarily a bad film. Quite an omission if true, tho (I have not seen it)
    The whole fucking film is about Oppy being a Commie, and his wife, mistress, brother, sister in law, and all friends.
    Except he wasn't.
    Plenty of friends and relatives who were, though.

    The traitor who leaked from Los Alamos was a German Brit.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaus_Fuchs
    (Good scientist, though, who did some fundamental work in the project.)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,330

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    My local IMAX has pretty much sold out of Oppenheimer tickets for the whole week. Only a few odds and 2am screenings still available. Grr…

    Not-local IMAX has also sold out of Oppenheimer tickets until next weekend. Bugger.

    Those who have seen it, worth taking half a day off work to go to a morning screening?
    Hell yes.

    Brilliant apart from a two minute scene that made Harry S. Truman look like a snivelling little shit.

    Doesn’t the movie completely ignore the fact that Oppenheimer was a commie and someone leaked the nuke secrets to Stalin?

    Not that this makes it necessarily a bad film. Quite an omission if true, tho (I have not seen it)
    The whole fucking film is about Oppy being a Commie, and his wife, mistress, brother, sister in law, and his friends.
    Lol. I have been reading the wrong movie review
This discussion has been closed.