Sunak, Hunt, and more cuts – politicalbetting.com
EXCLUSIVE:Rishi Sunak has accepted recommendations of *all* public sector pay review bodiesMillions of public sector workers including teachers, doctors and police officers will get pay rises of 6% or moreBUT it will be funded from existing budgetshttps://t.co/PRKE944vkM
Comments
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No, the headline isn't a typo/autocorrect.6
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Try saying that fast.0
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Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.2 -
How cute.TheScreamingEagles said:No, the headline isn't a typo/autocorrect.
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Well, this is the reality given this - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-debt-unsustainable-without-action-on-tax-and-spending-says-obr-kp5rrqzcd.0
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Great, yet more real term cuts to school budgets. Slap VAT on private schools NOW.2
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I have said this before and will say it again, there is nothing the Conservatives can do, their time is well and truly up, thirteen years and it is change time, irrespective of what they may or may not do.
Anything else is pissing in the wind.1 -
The Chancellor was talking about increased borrowing leading to higher inflation if this is true shouldn't the higher interest on parts of our 2 trillion debt also be influencing inflation figures?
That interest is going some where, right?0 -
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.0 -
Effective politics, but probably lousy government. The teacher increase looks like it's come from the money previously announced for Covid Catchup Tutoring that didn't get spent.MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.
Funding recurrent expenditure through one off reallocations of underspend is terrible, terrible financial management. And that’s not just for schools. The NHS deal is apparently funded in part through increases in visa fees and health surcharges. This is silly – the equivalent of digging around the sofa for some spare coins to pay a gas bill...
So a good day for everyone today. But a lot of harder decisions punted to the other side of the election – again.
https://jonathansimons1982.medium.com/bonus-thursday-thoughts-who-wins-and-who-loses-from-todays-teacher-pay-settlement-454c3e58ef8e1 -
The only thing they’ve got to go on now is to try and sow doubt re Labour, and hope something sticks. It won’t save them, it could save some seats and in a best case scenario force a HP, but looking unlikely right now.theakes said:I have said this before and will say it again, there is nothing the Conservatives can do, their time is well and truly up, thirteen years and it is change time, irrespective of what they may or may not do.
Anything else is pissing in the wind.
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The teaching rise is to be "properly funded", whatever that might mean.MightyAlex said:
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.
Tellingly, no such commitment was given in respect of the NHS, which is going to squeeze resources (though they're finding a few bits and pieces from behind the sofa to go towards it).0 -
They're taking a punt on Hunt's cuts.TheScreamingEagles said:No, the headline isn't a typo/autocorrect.
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Prison Officers get 7%, Prison Governors only 5%, that is a recipe for disaster.0
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Nowhere near beginning to get near the paintwork on the pile of money required.OnlyLivingBoy said:Great, yet more real term cuts to school budgets. Slap VAT on private schools NOW.
By all means do that, if it makes you feel better. But you then need o find the other 99% of the money.
Bit like cancelling Trident to pay for everything.1 -
Yes, TFAC will sweep the Tories away come the election. But let's also recognize how they have self-destructed in recent years. They'd be in with a chance if it weren't for that.theakes said:I have said this before and will say it again, there is nothing the Conservatives can do, their time is well and truly up, thirteen years and it is change time, irrespective of what they may or may not do.
Anything else is pissing in the wind.1 -
Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway1 -
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
Oh, that's what 'properly' meansNigelb said:
The teaching rise is to be "properly funded", whatever that might mean.MightyAlex said:
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.
Tellingly, no such commitment was given in respect of the NHS, which is going to squeeze resources (though they're finding a few bits and pieces from behind the sofa to go towards it).
Which is a novel definition.
The Department for Education is to raid its existing budgets for £1.4bn to help fund the 6.5% pay rise offered to teachers in England, as part of the deal announced between the government and the teaching and school leader unions.
How pay rises would be funded was a major sticking point, with the unions insisting that pay increases come with extra resources from the government rather than being met from school budgets, as has happened in the past.
Today’s joint announcement from No 10, the DfE and the unions stated: “Importantly, the government’s offer is properly funded for schools. The government has committed that all schools will receive additional funding above what was proposed in March - building on the additional £2bn given to schools in the autumn statement.”
The government had argued that its previous offer – amounting to an average rise of 4.3% - could be afforded out of the £2bn increase last year, a position supported by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.
But the “additional funding” being promised to pay for the higher invcrease announced today will come from the DfE, with an extra £500m in the 2023-24 financial year and £900m in 2024-25. The DfE said it will “reprioritise” its existing budgets “while protecting core budgets”.
The DfE said it will also provide a hardship fund of up to £40m “to support those schools facing the greatest financial challenges”.0 -
Just sees more pupils to fund in state schoolsOnlyLivingBoy said:Great, yet more real term cuts to school budgets. Slap VAT on private schools NOW.
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So the NHS are getting an unfunded, real terms cut.
...It is also worth noting that the offer still constitutes real-terms pay cuts for millions of workers, coming on top of what unions say have been many years of the same.
They are also nowhere near, in percentage-point terms, the 12.4% nominal increases junior doctors have been offered in Scotland. ..0 -
No more huts?TheScreamingEagles said:No, the headline isn't a typo/autocorrect.
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You know that line about how the initial response to Budget speeches is always wrong, and you need to wait to see the small print?Nigelb said:So the NHS are getting an unfunded, real terms cut.
...It is also worth noting that the offer still constitutes real-terms pay cuts for millions of workers, coming on top of what unions say have been many years of the same.
They are also nowhere near, in percentage-point terms, the 12.4% nominal increases junior doctors have been offered in Scotland. ..
That.2 -
The government didn't have any choice, really, either on the pay rises or the financing of them. They've used the recommendations of the pay review bodies in the past to justify resisting higher pay claims, making it hard to ignore the recommendations now. In any case, the acute problems of recruitment and retention of staff in all of these sectors mean that pay has to increase. The suggested rises are reasonable in the circumstances, although of course unions will scream that they are not. Private-sector pay (albeit not quite comparable, because of the large hidden-pay element of pensions in the public sector) are in the same ballpark, or even higher. Increasing borrowing to even higher levels at the moment is not realistic, and increasing taxes even more than they are already being increased is also not politically realistic.
Financing from the underspend is a short-term fudge, of course, so the problem isn't going to go away. We need more economic growth, better productivity, and better-managed public services, especially better management in the NHS. But none of that can be done quickly, and meanwhile we have the long-term deadweight of Brexit red tape dragging us down and stifling investment. The medium-term future is pretty bleak, to be honest. Labour are going to inherit a very, very difficult situation.10 -
5% of a bigger number though.theakes said:Prison Officers get 7%, Prison Governors only 5%, that is a recipe for disaster.
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No it doesn't. 44% say a 6% pay rise for public sector workers was about right or too large, so more even than the 43% who voted Conservative in 2019TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway1 -
The government may have the money, without having to borrow more. One of the effects of inflation is fiscal drag.
At least this is one banana skin the government have avoided.0 -
The Tory poll hopes will nosedive and bunt, and take a dunt?Selebian said:0 -
Is it a typo for "Sarek", leading to the long-prayed-for PB/Star Trek crossover?TheScreamingEagles said:No, the headline isn't a typo/autocorrect.
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Chinese spies penetrated 'every sector' of UK, ISC report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-661892430 -
Oh, YouGov
Methods wise, they've cocked up a bit here, particularly with the about right bit. People will pick a point for about right and then put higher/lower as too high/too low. You can see that here with the peaks for about right at 5% and 10% - people like round(er) numbers.
Better approach is to do a referendum style question - should employers be offering at least this amount? (with amount chosen at random for each respondent) and then logistic model or similar from the yes/no answers.
I'm available for hire/consultancy
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Look at the YouGov poll. It breaks it down by party affiliation, plenty of Tories want big pay increases for public sector workers.HYUFD said:
No it doesn't. 44% say a 6% pay rise for public sector workers was about right or too large, so more even than the 43% who voted Conservative in 2019TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
Even the incels?DecrepiterJohnL said:Chinese spies penetrated 'every sector' of UK, ISC report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66189243
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"Financing from the underspend" - how does that work for the NHS ?Richard_Nabavi said:The government didn't have any choice, really, either on the pay rises or the financing of them. They've used the recommendations of the pay review bodies in the past to justify resisting higher pay claims, making it hard to ignore the recommendations now. In any case, the acute problems of recruitment and retention of staff in all of these sectors mean that pay has to increase. The suggested rises are reasonable in the circumstances, although of course unions will scream that they are not. Private-sector pay (albeit not quite comparable, because of the large hidden-pay element of pensions in the public sector) are in the same ballpark, or even higher. Increasing borrowing to even higher levels at the moment is not realistic, and increasing taxes even more than they are already being increased is also not politically realistic.
Financing from the underspend is a short-term fudge, of course, so the problem isn't going to go away. We need more economic growth, better productivity, and better-managed public services, especially better management in the NHS. But none of that can be done quickly, and meanwhile we have the long-term deadweight of Brexit red tape dragging us down and stifling investment. The medium-term future is pretty bleak, to be honest. Labour are going to inherit a very, very difficult situation.0 -
It's net positive though according to the IFS.HYUFD said:
Just sees more pupils to fund in state schoolsOnlyLivingBoy said:Great, yet more real term cuts to school budgets. Slap VAT on private schools NOW.
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Leon tells us they're all left wing, so probably.Selebian said:
Even the incels?DecrepiterJohnL said:Chinese spies penetrated 'every sector' of UK, ISC report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-661892430 -
Michael Gove's chat with the Covid Inquiry resumes at 10 past 3.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/health-66179742
or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYYMf0FDP1E0 -
I think this was the right decision. As for having an inflationary effect, I suspect that’s minimal. A lot of these workers have been suffering real terms pay cuts for some time (and even this is a real terms cut). It will help alleviate some of the stresses, but I don’t expect it to cause a whole raft of people to suddenly turn on the spending taps more than they were going to.2
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That polling is just weird.
So following on from TSE's narrative instead of giving a 6% pay rise (which had 46% saying too small and 44% saying about right or too large) if they were following this polling they should actually have given only a 5% pay rise (which had 44% saying too small vs 46% saying about right or too large)
This is not a comment on the validity of the payrises, more on the validity of using the polling in this way.3 -
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
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It probably doesn't, but it's a fig-leaf to punt to worst of the problem to after the election.Nigelb said:
"Financing from the underspend" - how does that work for the NHS ?Richard_Nabavi said:The government didn't have any choice, really, either on the pay rises or the financing of them. They've used the recommendations of the pay review bodies in the past to justify resisting higher pay claims, making it hard to ignore the recommendations now. In any case, the acute problems of recruitment and retention of staff in all of these sectors mean that pay has to increase. The suggested rises are reasonable in the circumstances, although of course unions will scream that they are not. Private-sector pay (albeit not quite comparable, because of the large hidden-pay element of pensions in the public sector) are in the same ballpark, or even higher. Increasing borrowing to even higher levels at the moment is not realistic, and increasing taxes even more than they are already being increased is also not politically realistic.
Financing from the underspend is a short-term fudge, of course, so the problem isn't going to go away. We need more economic growth, better productivity, and better-managed public services, especially better management in the NHS. But none of that can be done quickly, and meanwhile we have the long-term deadweight of Brexit red tape dragging us down and stifling investment. The medium-term future is pretty bleak, to be honest. Labour are going to inherit a very, very difficult situation.
(Apologies for the mixed metaphor, although I rather like the idea of a punting fig-leaf).0 -
f
It's been sorted. There's a law against it and everything.DecrepiterJohnL said:Chinese spies penetrated 'every sector' of UK, ISC report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66189243
https://twitter.com/ukhomeoffice/status/16794333119265341471 -
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway2 -
One thing this polling does do is make the Junior doctors seem very isolated with their demands for 35%.1
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Problem solved!Selebian said:
Even the incels?DecrepiterJohnL said:Chinese spies penetrated 'every sector' of UK, ISC report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-661892431 -
Yep, see my comment earlier. You'll always end up with a round number peak if you ask in this way, so here 5% and 10%.Richard_Tyndall said:That polling is just weird.
So following on from TSE's narrative instead of giving a 6% pay rise (which had 46% saying too small and 44% saying about right or too large) if they were following this polling they should actually have given only a 5% pay rise (which had 44% saying too small vs 46% saying about right or too large)
This is not a comment on the validity of the payrises, more on the validity of using the polling in this way.1 -
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
LOL
Rishi Sunak said “it’s not about cuts” but about departments reprioritising resources.0 -
(Assuming the presented is the range asked) if you ask (and present) a broader range then I can guarantee you there will be a general, if not necessarily huge, shift to larger amounts.Richard_Tyndall said:One thing this polling does do is make the Junior doctors seem very isolated with their demands for 35%.
Experimented with this once, for a pilot surveys for a different question (part of trying to set the range of random amounts asked to do it properly) and if you present multiple figures, over different ranges, the one with the higher maximum will give you a higher mean/median answer.1 -
60% of 2019 Conservative voters think a 6% payrise for workers too large or about right.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at the YouGov poll. It breaks it down by party affiliation, plenty of Tories want big pay increases for public sector workers.HYUFD said:
No it doesn't. 44% say a 6% pay rise for public sector workers was about right or too large, so more even than the 43% who voted Conservative in 2019TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
61% of 2019 Labour voters think a 6% payrise too small
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/oh0n5likti/Internal_Payrise_221202_new.pdf0 -
It must be very frustrating for you, having missed your metier in life as the PR person for Robert Maxwell and his pensions policy.HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway1 -
Private companies only pay what they can afford and if they go above that then heads have to disappear to pay for it. Take your pick , nice job and pension for life or more money and have to do much more work or go elsewhere if you can get a better deal.MightyAlex said:
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.0 -
We should make this guy PM for the headlines with Hunt
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/hebrew-jewish/people/academic-staff/prof-willem-smelik3 -
They are just taking the piss. Deluded halfwits.Richard_Tyndall said:One thing this polling does do is make the Junior doctors seem very isolated with their demands for 35%.
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Remind us which parties are proposing to end the triple .lock for pensions and other benefits.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
LOL, we know how that always ends up.OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's net positive though according to the IFS.HYUFD said:
Just sees more pupils to fund in state schoolsOnlyLivingBoy said:Great, yet more real term cuts to school budgets. Slap VAT on private schools NOW.
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Not talking about that. Talking about house price inflationm and IHT.felix said:
Remind us which parties are proposing to end the triple .lock for pensions and other benefits.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
I think Hunt's tweet series is a good honest assessment of where we are. He is right to keep the purses tight, hopefully inflation will fall and he can loosen a touch more.0
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I have 10p burning a hole in my pocket, call me.Selebian said:Oh, YouGov
Methods wise, they've cocked up a bit here, particularly with the about right bit. People will pick a point for about right and then put higher/lower as too high/too low. You can see that here with the peaks for about right at 5% and 10% - people like round(er) numbers.
Better approach is to do a referendum style question - should employers be offering at least this amount? (with amount chosen at random for each respondent) and then logistic model or similar from the yes/no answers.
I'm available for hire/consultancy0 -
The trouble is that, in many cases, going elsewhere to get a better deal is exactly what public sector workers are doing.malcolmg said:
Private companies only pay what they can afford and if they go above that then heads have to disappear to pay for it. Take your pick , nice job and pension for life or more money and have to do much more work or go elsewhere if you can get a better deal.MightyAlex said:
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.2 -
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:2 -
Sometimes I feel like I'm living in an episode of Brass EyeCarnyx said:1 -
Any chance of a 35% pay rise?malcolmg said:
I have 10p burning a hole in my pocket, call me.Selebian said:Oh, YouGov
Methods wise, they've cocked up a bit here, particularly with the about right bit. People will pick a point for about right and then put higher/lower as too high/too low. You can see that here with the peaks for about right at 5% and 10% - people like round(er) numbers.
Better approach is to do a referendum style question - should employers be offering at least this amount? (with amount chosen at random for each respondent) and then logistic model or similar from the yes/no answers.
I'm available for hire/consultancy1 -
Is that an Ofsted issue though? Maybe it is, in this case, but surely isolated incidents are within the authority of the school in question. Their job to speak to the teacher/pupil(s) in question, establish the facts and take any necessary action. The Ofsted role surely being more general on overall situation and procedures within the school?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:2 -
They pay what they can get away with, yes?malcolmg said:
Private companies only pay what they can afford and if they go above that then heads have to disappear to pay for it. Take your pick , nice job and pension for life or more money and have to do much more work or go elsewhere if you can get a better deal.MightyAlex said:
I doubt the teachers are going to accept further cuts to education budgets. Work to rule next @dixiedean?MattW said:Third.
Or is that turd.
Probably effective politics from Sunak as it will make it tricky for the TUs - accepting review body recommendations in full is correct, but funding part of it from "efficiency gains" is cowardly, imo. We need taxes somewhat increasing and rebalancing.
This seems exactly what the government is trying. Although most of us need a good state education not one janked together.0 -
@soph_husk
Junior doctors vow to keep striking as 'derisory pay offer means just 84p extra an hour'0 -
9% of teachers quit in the last year & vacancies have doubled to > 2k posts: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jul/13/how-teacher-shortages-in-england-are-affecting-pupils. Teaching has a staffing crisis.HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
The NHS has almost 10% of posts unfilled: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/01/nhs-vacancies-in-england-at-staggering-new-high-as-almost-10-of-posts-empty
These are roles for which the funding exists, but no-one can be recruited. Salaries that have failed to keep up with inflation for fifteen years are a major reason.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re Labour or Conservative, if you want public services to be run efficiently then you need to pay enough to keep & retain staff or else you end up paying a fortune to fill the roles with temporary contract staff, if you can find them at all.
We long since passed the point of keeping pay down to the point where it balanced recruitment; it’s been pushed so far down that public services are failing.
I know Labour bangs the “save the NHS” drum every election, but this time around teaching is suffering similar problems, yet it doesn’t have the ageing population pressures that the NHS does. The Conservatives have cut salaries relative to other jobs in the UK economy to the point that these services are breaking down.2 -
Well, if you reckon it in pounds..... SCOTTTTTTSSSS!Selebian said:
Any chance of a 35% pay rise?malcolmg said:
I have 10p burning a hole in my pocket, call me.Selebian said:Oh, YouGov
Methods wise, they've cocked up a bit here, particularly with the about right bit. People will pick a point for about right and then put higher/lower as too high/too low. You can see that here with the peaks for about right at 5% and 10% - people like round(er) numbers.
Better approach is to do a referendum style question - should employers be offering at least this amount? (with amount chosen at random for each respondent) and then logistic model or similar from the yes/no answers.
I'm available for hire/consultancy
0 -
Missing the point again 34% of Tory voters think it is too small.HYUFD said:
60% of 2019 Conservative voters think a 6% payrise for workers too large or about right.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at the YouGov poll. It breaks it down by party affiliation, plenty of Tories want big pay increases for public sector workers.HYUFD said:
No it doesn't. 44% say a 6% pay rise for public sector workers was about right or too large, so more even than the 43% who voted Conservative in 2019TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
61% of 2019 Labour voters think a 6% payrise too small
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/oh0n5likti/Internal_Payrise_221202_new.pdf
Which is what I originally said.0 -
Yes, you are probably right, but lots of commentators on the left are claiming that this is some kind of vindication which shows that those who expressed shock at the horrendous comments of the teacher were completely wrong.Selebian said:
Is that an Ofsted issue though? Maybe it is, in this case, but surely isolated incidents are within the authority of the school in question. Their job to speak to the teacher/pupil(s) in question, establish the facts and take any necessary action. The Ofsted role surely being more general on overall situation and procedures within the school?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:1 -
They weren't breeding more cats than Istanbul.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, you are probably right, but lots of commentators on the left are claiming that this is some kind of vindication which shows that those who expressed shock at the horrendous comments of the teacher were completely wrong.Selebian said:
Is that an Ofsted issue though? Maybe it is, in this case, but surely isolated incidents are within the authority of the school in question. Their job to speak to the teacher/pupil(s) in question, establish the facts and take any necessary action. The Ofsted role surely being more general on overall situation and procedures within the school?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:0 -
Hahaha. Don't want to answer do we?Carnyx said:
Not talking about that. Talking about house price inflationm and IHT.felix said:
Remind us which parties are proposing to end the triple .lock for pensions and other benefits.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
Wasn't the issue that the teacher described one pupil's (perfectly normal) opinions as "despicable."Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:1 -
Who cares? Most Tory voters DON'T think it is too small. The Tory party's role is partly to stand up to the left and unions not give in to them like LabourTheScreamingEagles said:
Missing the point again 34% of Tory voters think it is too small.HYUFD said:
60% of 2019 Conservative voters think a 6% payrise for workers too large or about right.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look at the YouGov poll. It breaks it down by party affiliation, plenty of Tories want big pay increases for public sector workers.HYUFD said:
No it doesn't. 44% say a 6% pay rise for public sector workers was about right or too large, so more even than the 43% who voted Conservative in 2019TheScreamingEagles said:
The polling says otherwise.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
61% of 2019 Labour voters think a 6% payrise too small
https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/oh0n5likti/Internal_Payrise_221202_new.pdf
Which is what I originally said.
Missing the point again.
34% of Tory voters think it if0 -
Aren't you a public sector worker? If so, are you happy to see your wage shrink in real terms?HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
Why do doctors insist in using the hourly rate of pay? No other sector does this. Are they just afraid that if the public learned how much they take home annually (even based on average numbers) that sympathy would melt away?Scott_xP said:@soph_husk
Junior doctors vow to keep striking as 'derisory pay offer means just 84p extra an hour'2 -
On the contrary, you are trying to deflect from a key inflationary area.felix said:
Hahaha. Don't want to answer do we?Carnyx said:
Not talking about that. Talking about house price inflationm and IHT.felix said:
Remind us which parties are proposing to end the triple .lock for pensions and other benefits.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
In contrast to the truple lock which is strictly neutral in principle.
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A fundamental problem is that the UK public services work on a bulk cheap labour basis - rather than high wage/skill/productivity.Phil said:
9% of teachers quit in the last year & vacancies have doubled to > 2k posts: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jul/13/how-teacher-shortages-in-england-are-affecting-pupils. Teaching has a staffing crisis.HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
The NHS has almost 10% of posts unfilled: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/01/nhs-vacancies-in-england-at-staggering-new-high-as-almost-10-of-posts-empty
These are roles for which the funding exists, but no-one can be recruited. Salaries that have failed to keep up with inflation for fifteen years are a major reason.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re Labour or Conservative, if you want public services to be run efficiently then you need to pay enough to keep & retain staff or else you end up paying a fortune to fill the roles with temporary contract staff, if you can find them at all.
We long since passed the point of keeping pay down to the point where it balanced recruitment; it’s been pushed so far down that public services are failing.
I know Labour bangs the “save the NHS” drum every election, but this time around teaching is suffering similar problems, yet it doesn’t have the ageing population pressures that the NHS does. The Conservatives have cut salaries relative to other jobs in the UK economy to the point that these services are breaking down.
And no, that's not worker blaming. Productivity is difficult and often expensive to increase. Just Work Harder has almost never worked, in human history.1 -
Yes, precisely. If that recording is genuine, and I haven't seen any credible suggestion that it is not, the teacher should be sacked. It really is as simple as that.Sean_F said:
Wasn't the issue that the teacher described one pupil's (perfectly normal) opinions as "despicable."Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:1 -
Yep. Would be interesting to know what action was take on that. From the recording (and I'm of course aware of the lack of context, but it does sound bad) what starts as an interesting debate gets shut down by the (presumed) teacher with threats of disciplinary action. The (presumed) student seems to behave entirely reasonably.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, you are probably right, but lots of commentators on the left are claiming that this is some kind of vindication which shows that those who expressed shock at the horrendous comments of the teacher were completely wrong.Selebian said:
Is that an Ofsted issue though? Maybe it is, in this case, but surely isolated incidents are within the authority of the school in question. Their job to speak to the teacher/pupil(s) in question, establish the facts and take any necessary action. The Ofsted role surely being more general on overall situation and procedures within the school?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:
We used to have good debates with a very left wing teacher at school, but she welcomed the engagement (and believed in her ability to win the argument, so was never defensive) and would certainly never have threatened anyone for simply disagreeing.5 -
House price inflation rose fastest under Blair, exacerbated by lax immigration controls and not enough new housing built.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Cutting inheritance tax was one of the most popular Tory policies this century, so why should we care less what leftwingers like you think about it?0 -
Especially when the 'disagreeing' was simply expressing the view of almost everyone who has ever lived, or indeed is alive today - unsurprising since it's a simple expression of mammalian biology.Selebian said:
Yep. Would be interesting to know what action was take on that. From the recording (and I'm of course aware of the lack of context, but it does sound bad) what starts as an interesting debate gets shut down by the (presumed) teacher with threats of disciplinary action. The (presumed) student seems to behave entirely reasonably.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, you are probably right, but lots of commentators on the left are claiming that this is some kind of vindication which shows that those who expressed shock at the horrendous comments of the teacher were completely wrong.Selebian said:
Is that an Ofsted issue though? Maybe it is, in this case, but surely isolated incidents are within the authority of the school in question. Their job to speak to the teacher/pupil(s) in question, establish the facts and take any necessary action. The Ofsted role surely being more general on overall situation and procedures within the school?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:
We used to have good debates with a very left wing teacher at school, but she welcomed the engagement (and believed in her ability to win the argument, so was never defensive) and would certainly never have threatened anyone for simply disagreeing.3 -
So, when the Tories came into power, they stoked up inflation, and made sure that thje sellers could keep even more of the money? That's inflationary.HYUFD said:
House price inflation rose fastest under Blair, exacerbated by lax immigration controls and not enough new housing built.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Cutting inheritance tax was one of the most popular Tory policies this century, so why should we care less what leftwingers like you think about it?0 -
Just got a great beer deal at Waitrose - four pack of Blue Moon for £2.29 (had a yellow sticker on because its best before date 31/12/23 is now less than six months away)
I bought two packs and am celebrating my find with the first can2 -
No I am a third sector worker and no I don't want to fuel an inflationary wage spiralnorthern_monkey said:
Aren't you a public sector worker? If so, are you happy to see your wage shrink in real terms?HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway0 -
Quite. Well-to-do elderly rentiers are effectively getting a 6% pay rise next time the interest resets on their deposit accounts. You would have to be a pretty rabid pinko to argue for a larger rise for the "working" "poor" than these good folk are getting.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
0 -
The union is using a very specific starting point on the scale, where no-one stays for long, and career progression is rapid. Overtime is also paid per hour over 40, at escalating rates from 1.2 up to 2.0.turbotubbs said:
Why do doctors insist in using the hourly rate of pay? No other sector does this. Are they just afraid that if the public learned how much they take home annually (even based on average numbers) that sympathy would melt away?Scott_xP said:@soph_husk
Junior doctors vow to keep striking as 'derisory pay offer means just 84p extra an hour'
https://www.bmj.com/careers/article/the-complete-guide-to-nhs-pay-for-doctors this is the official pay and overtime scale.0 -
I have no doubt that the Ofsted inspection will be conflated by some as being some form of vindication of the teachers position in the incident itself.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, precisely. If that recording is genuine, and I haven't seen any credible suggestion that it is not, the teacher should be sacked. It really is as simple as that.Sean_F said:
Wasn't the issue that the teacher described one pupil's (perfectly normal) opinions as "despicable."Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:
0 -
The Tories halved unemployment and ended the recession that Labour left you meanCarnyx said:
So, when the Tories came into power, they stoked up inflation, and made sure that thje sellers could keep even more of the money? That's inflationary.HYUFD said:
House price inflation rose fastest under Blair, exacerbated by lax immigration controls and not enough new housing built.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Cutting inheritance tax was one of the most popular Tory policies this century, so why should we care less what leftwingers like you think about it?0 -
And Mr Johnson redecorated No. 10, which is about as relevant to my point as your comment.HYUFD said:
The Tories halved unemployment and ended the recession that Labour left you meanCarnyx said:
So, when the Tories came into power, they stoked up inflation, and made sure that thje sellers could keep even more of the money? That's inflationary.HYUFD said:
House price inflation rose fastest under Blair, exacerbated by lax immigration controls and not enough new housing built.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Cutting inheritance tax was one of the most popular Tory policies this century, so why should we care less what leftwingers like you think about it?0 -
Oh I thought you were public sector. You not on Epping Town Council anymore?HYUFD said:
No I am a third sector worker and no I don't want to fuel an inflationary wage spiralnorthern_monkey said:
Aren't you a public sector worker? If so, are you happy to see your wage shrink in real terms?HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Very noble of you to be happy to work for less.0 -
There was an article published recently pointing out that, when compared to peer health services in Europe & the US, the NHS was extremely under managed. Those missing managers are the ones that would be ensuring that the system runs efficiently, without them the system is prone to driving itself into local productivity minima.Malmesbury said:
A fundamental problem is that the UK public services work on a bulk cheap labour basis - rather than high wage/skill/productivity.Phil said:
9% of teachers quit in the last year & vacancies have doubled to > 2k posts: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jul/13/how-teacher-shortages-in-england-are-affecting-pupils. Teaching has a staffing crisis.HYUFD said:
If public sector workers want bigger pay rises they will vote for Labour. Remember in 2010 when the Tories got in average public sector pay was higher than average private sector pay after 13 years of Labour government and public sector workers had final salary pensions which private sector workers don't (and they still do have those generous public sector pensions)Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
The NHS has almost 10% of posts unfilled: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/01/nhs-vacancies-in-england-at-staggering-new-high-as-almost-10-of-posts-empty
These are roles for which the funding exists, but no-one can be recruited. Salaries that have failed to keep up with inflation for fifteen years are a major reason.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re Labour or Conservative, if you want public services to be run efficiently then you need to pay enough to keep & retain staff or else you end up paying a fortune to fill the roles with temporary contract staff, if you can find them at all.
We long since passed the point of keeping pay down to the point where it balanced recruitment; it’s been pushed so far down that public services are failing.
I know Labour bangs the “save the NHS” drum every election, but this time around teaching is suffering similar problems, yet it doesn’t have the ageing population pressures that the NHS does. The Conservatives have cut salaries relative to other jobs in the UK economy to the point that these services are breaking down.
And no, that's not worker blaming. Productivity is difficult and often expensive to increase. Just Work Harder has almost never worked, in human history.
Of course, it’s always easier to cut (or not recruit) middle management in the interests of protecting those all important front line staffing numbers; who cares if it takes 30 minutes for their PC to boot in the morning?1 -
If public sector workers were currently being recorded as having 0% rise in the figures, then the average rise of 7% should increase as a result of this, no?0
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"And meanwhile we have the long term deadweight of Brexit dragging us down and stifling investment"Richard_Nabavi said:The government didn't have any choice, really, either on the pay rises or the financing of them. They've used the recommendations of the pay review bodies in the past to justify resisting higher pay claims, making it hard to ignore the recommendations now. In any case, the acute problems of recruitment and retention of staff in all of these sectors mean that pay has to increase. The suggested rises are reasonable in the circumstances, although of course unions will scream that they are not. Private-sector pay (albeit not quite comparable, because of the large hidden-pay element of pensions in the public sector) are in the same ballpark, or even higher. Increasing borrowing to even higher levels at the moment is not realistic, and increasing taxes even more than they are already being increased is also not politically realistic.
Financing from the underspend is a short-term fudge, of course, so the problem isn't going to go away. We need more economic growth, better productivity, and better-managed public services, especially better management in the NHS. But none of that can be done quickly, and meanwhile we have the long-term deadweight of Brexit red tape dragging us down and stifling investment. The medium-term future is pretty bleak, to be honest. Labour are going to inherit a very, very difficult situation.
Interesting that this key passage had 'likes' from three of the most vociferous Brexiteers who post here. It's almost as though we're dealing with alter egos.0 -
"Blue Moon Belgian White American Craft Wheat Beer." A lot to unpack there. But enjoy!BlancheLivermore said:Just got a great beer deal at Waitrose - four pack of Blue Moon for £2.29 (had a yellow sticker on because its best before date 31/12/23 is now less than six months away)
I bought two packs and am celebrating my find with the first can0 -
It's been pretty crap from the Tories @HYUFD.HYUFD said:
The Tories halved unemployment and ended the recession that Labour left you meanCarnyx said:
So, when the Tories came into power, they stoked up inflation, and made sure that thje sellers could keep even more of the money? That's inflationary.HYUFD said:
House price inflation rose fastest under Blair, exacerbated by lax immigration controls and not enough new housing built.Carnyx said:
In contrast to wealthy Tory-voting pensioners and their beneficiaries, especially where houses in the SE are concerned. *Extremely* inflationary, those people. @HYUFD should direct his ire at those people and the party which stoked the inflation of house prices and the inflation of inheritances on top of that by reducing IHT.Phil said:
The public sector has had fifteen years of below inflation pay rises. Politically, asking them to continue to take real terms pay cuts in the face of rapidly rising prices is extremely difficult, as the wave of public sector strikes is showing.HYUFD said:Well tough, we have inflation rising at 8%, average pay only rising at 7% and if you give public sector workers a pay rise beyond the 6% the pay body recommends then you will have an inflationary wage spiral.
Voters who want big pay rises for public sector workers will vote Labour anyway
Cutting inheritance tax was one of the most popular Tory policies this century, so why should we care less what leftwingers like you think about it?
I'm a Tory voter, and I find it quite hard to imagine how Boris managed to do absolutely nothing with the huge mandate he had.
The problem is that Brexit so fixated everyone that it's still in the mirrors.1 -
.
Well done for being outraged by a hypothetical.numbertwelve said:
I have no doubt that the Ofsted inspection will be conflated by some as being some form of vindication of the teachers position in the incident itself.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, precisely. If that recording is genuine, and I haven't seen any credible suggestion that it is not, the teacher should be sacked. It really is as simple as that.Sean_F said:
Wasn't the issue that the teacher described one pupil's (perfectly normal) opinions as "despicable."Richard_Nabavi said:
Ofsted haven't addressed the crucial point, which is whether that was a genuine recording of what the teacher said (and is nothing whatsoever to do with cats).Carnyx said:0
