The Tory polling recovery has come to an end – politicalbetting.com
The Tory polling recovery has come to an end – politicalbetting.com
Clearly, it has been a very tricky week for Sunak which hasn’t been helped by the party gate report on Johnson. You can tell how seriously the ex-PM is taking this by the number of BoJo loyalists who are being sent out to seek to rubbish the parliamentary investigation.
Comments
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First to keep a fine old tradition in these non-Conservative times3
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I identify as Horse.0
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Second, and a bit suicidal, but because B was first to the scene I'll no doubt get a really good cup of tea and a blanket!
(Edit: Well technically third)0 -
I am the best poster here.viewcode said:0 -
I made a good post... onceCorrectHorseBat said:
I am the best poster here.viewcode said:
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You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:0 -
I think I blinked and missed the recovery.0
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@Omnium makes a good point, I could barely speak to anything tangible for the under 40s the Tories have done.0
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It lasted for one tenth of a Liz Truss premiership.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
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I'd just slightly wonder whether rich, child-free Tory voters aren't getting their summer holidays in now before the schools break up, and are therefore not available to answer opinion polls.0
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Recession fears growing
Some economists believe inflation is so out of control, the Bank of England will have to induce a recession through rate hikes.
Sunak & Hunt acknowledge that may be the only way to control price rises.0 -
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:0 -
0
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Based on analysis on here in the spring, are we now supposed to take the recent change in favour of Labour and assume it is repeated exactly every month from now until the election?1
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Mine was just now, every post is better than the lastOmnium said:
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:1 -
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=203 -
A recession was predicted awhile back - we've seemingly just managed to avoid it with growth of 0.1%, if it is not reduced down, but that hardly matters - we dipped into formal recession during the Coalition years (I think that was edited out with later revisions), but things didn't feel that bad on the whole. For a year or more people have been hearing how shit things are, and of course the spectre that is inflation, so recession or not people feel it keenly.CorrectHorseBat said:Recession fears growing
Some economists believe inflation is so out of control, the Bank of England will have to induce a recession through rate hikes.
Sunak & Hunt acknowledge that may be the only way to control price rises.0 -
There's a recession coming already frankly once those hit by coming off fixed mortgage rates stop tons of their discretionary spending.CorrectHorseBat said:Recession fears growing
Some economists believe inflation is so out of control, the Bank of England will have to induce a recession through rate hikes.
Sunak & Hunt acknowledge that may be the only way to control price rises.0 -
Well, quite. It's basically the eradication of three months of painful progress back towards 30%. Now, the line is back to 26-28% and Labour, having flirted with 40%, is now back over 45%.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
The "problem" isn't Rishi Sunak particularly. After 13 years of leading the Government, people are tired of the Conservative Party and that has been exacerbated by how some leading Conservatives in Parliament have comported themselves in the past three or four years.
It's not just venality or incompetence but the arrogance that comes from a belief they will be in power forever and are thus not subject to accountability or transparency or scrutiny whether from Parliament or the electorate.
Individual Conservatives (including those who post on here) must be absolutely frustrated by what has happened but the health of democracy requires the occasional peaceful change of power. Of course, Corbyn wasn't the answer - we all knew that - and Starmer may not be everyone's cup of tea but he and his Party look ready and willing to govern in a way the current incumbents do not.6 -
Actually this could be a great AI task. We all sort of know that AI isn't worth a candle, but as such.. reckoning a ranking as to PB posts! I'd obviously come out top, but what on earth would an AI make of the rest of it?CorrectHorseBat said:
Mine was just now, every post is better than the lastOmnium said:
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:0 -
Some folks here reckon I am advanced form of AI.Omnium said:
Actually this could be a great AI task. We all sort of know that AI isn't worth a candle, but as such.. reckoning a ranking as to PB posts! I'd obviously come out top, but what on earth would an AI make of the rest of it?CorrectHorseBat said:
Mine was just now, every post is better than the lastOmnium said:
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:
I am Horse.0 -
To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
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LDs vs Greens was about 9 vs 6 last year, now 11 v 5.
Think that is a sign of tactical voting firming up after council elections.0 -
It's an interesting idea that because someone gave a well regarded speech once that means they should be leader of the country 7 years later. At least people usually point to the 2019 win, which whatever caveats people place on it was a real achievement versus making speeches sometimes.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here0 -
He beat Jeremy Corbyn.kle4 said:
It's an interesting idea that because someone gave a well regarded speech once that means they should be leader of the country 7 years later. At least people usually point to the 2019 win, which whatever caveats people place on it was a real achievement versus making speeches sometimes.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here0 -
Corbyn types must be furious however many times they have to learn the lesson - looking and sounding radical only works in extreme situations, however much it makes you feel better. Just be credible and you've a pretty decent chance that far into another government, and you may well get to be a bit radical then.stodge said:
Of course, Corbyn wasn't the answer - we all knew that - and Starmer may not be everyone's cup of tea but he and his Party look ready and willing to govern in a way the current incumbents do not.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
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Yes, which is why I said caveats. But 'won a big majority' is still a big plus for any backers, whereas 'he knew how to make a decent speech' means literally nothing. Corbyn could deliver an ok speech.CorrectHorseBat said:
He beat Jeremy Corbyn.kle4 said:
It's an interesting idea that because someone gave a well regarded speech once that means they should be leader of the country 7 years later. At least people usually point to the 2019 win, which whatever caveats people place on it was a real achievement versus making speeches sometimes.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here0 -
Nah Corbyn fans insist Jezza would be ahead now.0
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They are right though. Once again, David Cameron showed his love of negative campaigning that had turned a clear lead in the general election into a hung parliament, and almost lost Sindyref. Even without Project Fear, the Remain campaign basically said, the EU is terrible but outside might be worse. As Boris pointed out in that video clip.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here0 -
I repeat, hope springs eternalRoger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.0 -
Everyone gets one every 10,000 posts.Omnium said:0 -
Trojan Horse?CorrectHorseBat said:
Some folks here reckon I am advanced form of AI.Omnium said:
Actually this could be a great AI task. We all sort of know that AI isn't worth a candle, but as such.. reckoning a ranking as to PB posts! I'd obviously come out top, but what on earth would an AI make of the rest of it?CorrectHorseBat said:
Mine was just now, every post is better than the lastOmnium said:
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:
I am Horse.0 -
I don't have a gender identity.WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=200 -
I hate to say it (because I reckon it is costing the country), but not yet. Starmer's point that reopening the debate now would be toxic and distracting is right. So Brejoin can only happen if it becomes uncontroversial.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it from what I can see.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic crisis like everyone else.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
Which I suspect it will, based on demographics and Brexit's failure to deliver.
Having tried harmful Brexit, the next stop will be pointless Brexit (shadowing Euro rules to lubricate trade). We will have to see if that goes any better. It's what some people wanted all along, but I think that it will send Sovereignty/Democracy types mad.
Let's see.2 -
I am Horse.solarflare said:
Trojan Horse?CorrectHorseBat said:
Some folks here reckon I am advanced form of AI.Omnium said:
Actually this could be a great AI task. We all sort of know that AI isn't worth a candle, but as such.. reckoning a ranking as to PB posts! I'd obviously come out top, but what on earth would an AI make of the rest of it?CorrectHorseBat said:
Mine was just now, every post is better than the lastOmnium said:
I suspect that we've both had what we thought our magnus opus of posts entirely ignored.CorrectHorseBat said:
You're decent, not as good as me but decentOmnium said:
I am Horse.0 -
0
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You're just a neigh-sayer.CorrectHorseBat said:I identify as Horse.
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It was a poorly run campaign. I don't think the Leave campaign was very good either, to be honest, but the general narrative and political atmosphere of the time was more conducive. I do recall Ruth Davison attempting to give a positive influence on the EU answer at a debate and practically getting laughed off the stage.DecrepiterJohnL said:
They are right though. Once again, David Cameron showed his love of negative campaigning that had turned a clear lead in the general election into a hung parliament, and almost lost Sindyref. Even without Project Fear, the Remain campaign basically said, the EU is terrible but outside might be worse. As Boris pointed out in that video clip.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here
Project fear does usually work - some things should make us afraid. But we have a weird thing where we seem to respond either to over the top fearmongering, or absurd boosterism divorced from reality, but nothing in between.2 -
I am Grootviewcode said:0 -
Boris Johnson is almost single-handedly responsible for where we are now. SCUMBAG.0
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To be fair they said "the EU is not great but outside the EU is likely to be worse" rather than terrible and might be. Which was an accurate summary if not much motivation to vote to stay.DecrepiterJohnL said:
They are right though. Once again, David Cameron showed his love of negative campaigning that had turned a clear lead in the general election into a hung parliament, and almost lost Sindyref. Even without Project Fear, the Remain campaign basically said, the EU is terrible but outside might be worse. As Boris pointed out in that video clip.CorrectHorseBat said:https://twitter.com/NileGardiner/status/1671574056439521287
Looney bin posters here2 -
Responding to your own posts now? You go girlviewcode said:0 -
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
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To be fair, radical Governments were elected at least three times in the 20th Century. Radical solutions are only contemplated when there is a widespread belief we cannot go on as are (or were).kle4 said:
Corbyn types must be furious however many times they have to learn the lesson - looking and sounding radical only works in extreme situations, however much it makes you feel better. Just be credible and you've a pretty decent chance that far into another government, and you may well get to be a bit radical then.stodge said:
Of course, Corbyn wasn't the answer - we all knew that - and Starmer may not be everyone's cup of tea but he and his Party look ready and willing to govern in a way the current incumbents do not.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
That was certainly true of Attlee in 1945 and Thatcher in 1979 (and possibly Asquith too in 1906). There's no point offering a radical solution if most people don't accept such a solution is required to the problems faced by the country.
Starmer isn't a first term radical - he may become more radical if winning a second term but in the first term he will seek (hopefully) to undo some of the more contentious Conservative legislation. Unfortunately, Labour loves power as much as the Conservatives so we're not likely to see a return of scrutiny power to Westminster or serious devolution to elected councils.
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There are many future paths. One is simply rejoining (although one wonders what deal would be on the table?). Perhaps close alignment for trade plus better movement of people is what most want.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
The great danger is that just as those who blamed all our ills on the EU, now too many are blaming all our ills on not being in the EU.
I have no doubt at all that our issues are made a bit worse by Brexit. I also think many overestimate quite how much of an effect there is.
I’d be wary of opinion polls on rejoin. I’ve not seen one yet that specifies the terms.1 -
I think that's about right. You do a bit better though, I have to say.kle4 said:
Everyone gets one every 10,000 posts.Omnium said:
Edit: you're easily one in 9,997. And there's data to support this!0 -
I like those odds.kle4 said:
Everyone gets one every 10,000 posts.Omnium said:0 -
Nah he's bang average. I am the best.Omnium said:
I think that's about right. You do a bit better though, I have to say.kle4 said:
Everyone gets one every 10,000 posts.Omnium said:0 -
Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html0 -
We will hear a lot about restoring power to local people though - party manifestos in that area are uniformly dull, vague and full of hyperbole about their intentions. Then Whitehall steps in...stodge said:
To be fair, radical Governments were elected at least three times in the 20th Century. Radical solutions are only contemplated when there is a widespread belief we cannot go on as are (or were).kle4 said:
Corbyn types must be furious however many times they have to learn the lesson - looking and sounding radical only works in extreme situations, however much it makes you feel better. Just be credible and you've a pretty decent chance that far into another government, and you may well get to be a bit radical then.stodge said:
Of course, Corbyn wasn't the answer - we all knew that - and Starmer may not be everyone's cup of tea but he and his Party look ready and willing to govern in a way the current incumbents do not.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
That was certainly true of Attlee in 1945 and Thatcher in 1979 (and possibly Asquith too in 1906). There's no point offering a radical solution if most people don't accept such a solution is required to the problems faced by the country.
Starmer isn't a first term radical - he may become more radical if winning a second term but in the first term he will seek (hopefully) to undo some of the more contentious Conservative legislation. Unfortunately, Labour loves power as much as the Conservatives so we're not likely to see a return of scrutiny power to Westminster or serious devolution to elected councils.
I'm not even sure I have a problem with a really centralised state, but I'm sick to death of endless talking about devolution and either not delivering, or delivering something inconsistent, needlessly confusing, or shocking haphazard.
But he promises to force all districts and countries to become unitaries he has my vote.0 -
Personally, I have given up on the UK rejoining. I found it a lot easier to let my UK passport expire and just start using my Irish one.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.1 -
We will not rejoin.
We can get a Brexit that works for the economy. The Tories and the Brexiteers though, cannot achieve it.0 -
Lettuce hope better times are coming.TheScreamingEagles said:
It lasted for one tenth of a Liz Truss premiership.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
1 -
I am Horseydoethur said:
Lettuce hope better times are coming.TheScreamingEagles said:
It lasted for one tenth of a Liz Truss premiership.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
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Asquith was not elected in 1906.stodge said:
To be fair, radical Governments were elected at least three times in the 20th Century. Radical solutions are only contemplated when there is a widespread belief we cannot go on as are (or were).kle4 said:
Corbyn types must be furious however many times they have to learn the lesson - looking and sounding radical only works in extreme situations, however much it makes you feel better. Just be credible and you've a pretty decent chance that far into another government, and you may well get to be a bit radical then.stodge said:
Of course, Corbyn wasn't the answer - we all knew that - and Starmer may not be everyone's cup of tea but he and his Party look ready and willing to govern in a way the current incumbents do not.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
That was certainly true of Attlee in 1945 and Thatcher in 1979 (and possibly Asquith too in 1906). There's no point offering a radical solution if most people don't accept such a solution is required to the problems faced by the country.
Starmer isn't a first term radical - he may become more radical if winning a second term but in the first term he will seek (hopefully) to undo some of the more contentious Conservative legislation. Unfortunately, Labour loves power as much as the Conservatives so we're not likely to see a return of scrutiny power to Westminster or serious devolution to elected councils.0 -
The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars / But in ourselves,turbotubbs said:
The great danger is that just as those who blamed all our ills on the EU, now too many are blaming all our ills on not being in the EU.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
2 -
So am I, but the Lemsip seems to be having some effect.CorrectHorseBat said:
I am Horseydoethur said:
Lettuce hope better times are coming.TheScreamingEagles said:
It lasted for one tenth of a Liz Truss premiership.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
1 -
I agree and it is simply not on the agenda to start negotiations to re-join the EU, and anyway it would be some years away and hardly of assistance nowStuartinromford said:
I hate to say it (because I reckon it is costing the country), but not yet. Starmer's point that reopening the debate now would be toxic and distracting is right. So Brejoin can only happen if it becomes uncontroversial.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it from what I can see.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic crisis like everyone else.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
Which I suspect it will, based on demographics and Brexit's failure to deliver.
Having tried harmful Brexit, the next stop will be pointless Brexit (shadowing Euro rules to lubricate trade). We will have to see if that goes any better. It's what some people wanted all along, but I think that it will send Sovereignty/Democracy types mad.
Let's see.
Sunak and Starmer do seem to want to cultivate a closer relationship with the EU, not least with Sunak agreeing the WF and addressing UVDL as his 'dear friend' at the Ukraine conference today
I would suggest most voters would support closer and friendlier ties with and collaboration on trade but it has to be remembered that we are now in the CPTPP and Macron seems to have the best proposition for the EPC group of countries which would be an ideal compromise and let us all move on from the polarisation of leave and remain
1 -
You may be right. For the audience though I think a revisiting of your greatest moments might be in order.CorrectHorseBat said:
Nah he's bang average. I am the best.Omnium said:
I think that's about right. You do a bit better though, I have to say.kle4 said:
Everyone gets one every 10,000 posts.Omnium said:
I'll give you a starter;
CHB: Nomination for best original user name0 -
Similar to the Johnson, Farage and Lawson families......Beibheirli_C said:
Personally, I have given up on the UK rejoining. I found it a lot easier to let my UK passport expire and just start using my Irish one.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic storm like everyone else and without even a loin cloth.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.0 -
Cambell-Bannerman and Asquith were both supposedly dull and electorally uninspiring but 1906 and 1945 happedned none the less0
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I am your father...viewcode said:0 -
A Turnip for the books if so.ydoethur said:
Lettuce hope better times are coming.TheScreamingEagles said:
It lasted for one tenth of a Liz Truss premiership.kle4 said:I think I blinked and missed the recovery.
0 -
If we accept gender is a social construct, does that mean that we should ignore gender in law? Should we support or make life difficult for people who want to change gender?CarlottaVance said:
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
Ethnicity is a social construct. Religion is a social construct. These things have protection in law (albeit different ones). Money is a social construct. Democracy is a social construct. Lots of interesting and nice things are social constructs!0 -
Do you mean Attlee rather than Asquith? Asquith had been dead for 17 years in 1945.Clutch_Brompton said:Cambell-Bannerman and Asquith were both supposedly dull and electorally uninspiring but 1906 and 1945 happedned none the less
0 -
I am the oncoming storm...viewcode said:0 -
The Dems are stuck with Biden, and he is their best hope against Trump anyway. The economy is a bit better in the US than here but still an election that would be tough for the incumbant to win.rottenborough said:Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html
Kennedy has sub 1% chance of being Dem nominee, Biden closer to 90% than the market 70%.1 -
Yes, Pointless Brexit has to be the goal for now and it's a challenging one. Trebles all round if we can get from here to there.Stuartinromford said:
I hate to say it (because I reckon it is costing the country), but not yet. Starmer's point that reopening the debate now would be toxic and distracting is right. So Brejoin can only happen if it becomes uncontroversial.Roger said:To days news is wall to wall financial crisis with the elephant in the room being Brexit. Now that Johnson has gone commentators and others seem much less restrained in mentioning the great unmentionable. There's hardly anyone still talking it up or even prepared to defend it from what I can see.
Surely someone has got to mobilise the 17,000,000 (Now more likely to be 25,000,000) or they're going to get bounced around by this economic crisis like everyone else.
Time for someone with courage or ambition to go for it.
Which I suspect it will, based on demographics and Brexit's failure to deliver.
Having tried harmful Brexit, the next stop will be pointless Brexit (shadowing Euro rules to lubricate trade). We will have to see if that goes any better. It's what some people wanted all along, but I think that it will send Sovereignty/Democracy types mad.
Let's see.3 -
Note however RefUK on 5-7% in most polls and most of their voters will be Boris supporters. Indeed Sunak now leaking more to RefUK than Starmer is to the Greens with RefUK ahead of the Greens in 3/4 of the last polls in the table.
So Sunak realised he could not afford to alienate Johnson supporters too much in the report vote too much and abstained even if the vast majority of Tory MPs also did not vote against it either so as not to offend centrist voters too much0 -
I am death incarnate...viewcode said:0 -
Nota bene this tweet contains an image NSFW or if your other half is nearby.
Stepson of missing billionaire on Titanic submarine shoots his shot with OnlyFans model as rescuers scramble to locate his stepfather.
https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1671549335027298308/photo/20 -
This Welsh poll is high for RefUKHYUFD said:Note however RefUK on 5-7% in most polls and most of their voters will be Boris supporters. Indeed Sunak now leaking more to RefUK than Starmer is to the Greens with RefUK ahead of the Greens in 3/4 of the last polls in the table.
So Sunak realised he could not afford to alienate Johnson supporters too much in the report vote too much and abstained even if the vast majority of Tory MPs also did not vote against it either so as not to offend centrist voters too much
Wales Westminster VI (17-18 June):
Labour 43% (–)
Conservatives 22% (-1)
Reform UK 12% (+3)
Plaid Cymru 10% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 7% (-1)
Green 4% (–)
Other 1% (–)
Changes +/- 14-15 May
0 -
I am vengeance. I am the night...viewcode said:
I am death incarnate...viewcode said:0 -
Had Bobby Kennedy not been shot he not Humphrey would likely have been Democratic nominee in 1968 and he would probably have beaten Nixon then to win the Presidency. Could Robert Kennedy Jnr do what his father narrowly missed, remember LBJ like Biden was at one stage hoping to run again as incumbent Presidentrottenborough said:Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html0 -
Still made a better candidate then some, I'll bet.ydoethur said:
Do you mean Attlee rather than Asquith? Asquith had been dead for 17 years in 1945.Clutch_Brompton said:Cambell-Bannerman and Asquith were both supposedly dull and electorally uninspiring but 1906 and 1945 happedned none the less
0 -
RFK, JR 2024 = Kanye West (now Ye) 2020 = stalking squirrels for Trumpnoneoftheabove said:
The Dems are stuck with Biden, and he is their best hope against Trump anyway. The economy is a bit better in the US than here but still an election that would be tough for the incumbant to win.rottenborough said:Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html
Kennedy has sub 1% chance of being Dem nominee, Biden closer to 90% than the market 70%.0 -
I disagree. What does gender identity mean in that context? How does it exist?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
My biological sex is male. My choices in hobby, clothing, profession, makeup etc are individual choices to make, not a reflection of some gender identity.
Choosing dance, dresses, nurse and lots of makeup would not require me to identify as female gender; any more than a biological woman choosing rugby, jeans and shirt, engineer and no makeup requires them to identify as male gender.
No need for any 'gender identity' when it's become such a loaded term.
I appreciate others feel differently and respect their freedom to do so. But I reject gender identify as a premise, much in the same way I reject religion and having to choose a favourite football team.2 -
To @MikeSmithson I'd add that this is not just about Boris, although some of it is.
Boris is definitely part of the problem because he reached a wing of voters, mainly northern red wall ones, who Sunak not only doesn't reach, but whom he has alienated. Boris has not gone away. Or, rather, by his exile he is reminding them of what they no longer have. Remember, they did not vote for Sunak. Every time Boris sticks his column in the Mail he's enflaming them against Sunak. These are also largely the 2019 stayaways who Mike has been warning about.
But there are two other whammies
One is the mortgage crisis, which is awful.
The other inflation, ditto.4 -
No. I reject the very notion of gender identity.WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
There are a set of gender stereotypes which I might conform to, to one extent or another, but my male identity is a physical one and not something that I attach to my behaviours, where I see myself as a person.
I thought that one of the objectives of feminism, that I support, was to free people from constricting gender stereotypes, rather than to use gender stereotypes to classify people as belonging to a gender that might, or might not, match their biological sex.3 -
Fake news from the LDs
Winning here!
1 -
The cold, dead corpse of Herbert Asquith would have made a better prime minister than either Boris Johnson or Liz Truss.kle4 said:
Still made a better candidate then some, I'll bet.ydoethur said:
Do you mean Attlee rather than Asquith? Asquith had been dead for 17 years in 1945.Clutch_Brompton said:Cambell-Bannerman and Asquith were both supposedly dull and electorally uninspiring but 1906 and 1945 happedned none the less
And that is not said out of any starry eyed admiration for the egregious Herbert Asquith or his cold, dead corpse.3 -
And of course... I'm Batman.viewcode said:
I am vengeance. I am the night...viewcode said:
I am death incarnate...viewcode said:0 -
Not familiar with the OnlyFans business model. Is that sort of exchange meant to be in the public domain?TheScreamingEagles said:Nota bene this tweet contains an image NSFW or if your other half is nearby.
Stepson of missing billionaire on Titanic submarine shoots his shot with OnlyFans model as rescuers scramble to locate his stepfather.
https://twitter.com/PopCrave/status/1671549335027298308/photo/20 -
Even of primary Kennedy supporters they are supporting him because they know little about him beyond his family name. Only 12% of his own supporters go for his views/policies with 4% going for would do a good job, vs combined 57% for family connections/want to know more/is a democrat/would consider any candidate.HYUFD said:
Had Bobby Kennedy not been shot he not Humphrey would likely have been Democratic nominee in 1968 and he would probably have beaten Nixon then to win the Presidency. Could Robert Kennedy Jnr do what his father narrowly missed, remember LBJ like Biden was at one stage hoping to run again as incumbent Presidentrottenborough said:Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23825119/cnn-poll-2024-democratic-primary.pdf
What is the main reason you would consider supporEng Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.? [OPEN-END]
May 17-20, 2023
Kennedy name/Family connecaons 20%
Do not know enough/Want to learn more 17%
Support his views/policies 12%
Would consider any candidate/Open-minded 10%
Is a Democrat/Not a Republican 10%
Qualified/Has poliacal experience 7%
Support any Democrat over Trump/Is not Trump 5%
Not Biden/Alternaave to Biden 4%
Would do a good job/Is a good leader 4%
Environmental posiaons/Climate 4%
Could win 3%
Someone new/Fresh face/Fresh ideas 3%
Age/Younger 3%
Could step in if Biden unable 1%
Other 9%
No opinion 8%0 -
From the previous thread:
Survation's 18% Labour lead just out is the highest for 4 months.
The mean Labour lead of the last 6 national opinion polls is 19.33% and there's remarkable convergence too with the deviation only between 18% and 22%.
Every single one of those polls also has the combined Lab-LibDem percentage between 55-58% which I suggest is the most significant figure given the likely anti-Conservative tactical vote.
All 6 polls have the Conservatives in the 20's.
Them's the facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
2 -
Well they are the faves on Betfair.pinball13 said:Fake news from the LDs
Winning here!3 -
If it’s not a social construct what is it?bondegezou said:
If we accept gender is a social construct,CarlottaVance said:
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
If I say “I don’t believe in god” I’m not instantly denounced for promoting a Christian/Muslim genocide, of denying the existence of Christians, or having the police set upon me for hate speech. The trans community have been very poorly served by the authoritarian “no debate” trans activists.1 -
'@PaulBrandITV
EXCL: The long-awaited ban on conversion therapy is finally sitting in the PM’s red box.
It now awaits his sign-off/changes but the current draft:
- covers sexuality & gender
- includes a ‘consent clause’ which won’t protect those who volunteer for CT'
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1671479617578729474?s=200 -
You are an out-and-out obsessive on this topic, as well as a misogynist.CarlottaVance said:
gender?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in0 -
Brussels to allow installation of spyware on journalists’ phones and laptops
The EU’s decision to give intrusive surveillance of reporters the green light has put their sources at risk of identification
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/journalist-spyware-eu-surveillance-sources-3lfnqqznr (£££)0 -
Technically there's a difference between "rejecting religion" and "rejecting religion as a premise". It's one thing to say "I do not believe in God", and another to say "There is no such thing as a belief in God". Many people believe in God (or gods, or variations thereof) and rejection of the concept of a God will not change that.Ratters said:But I reject gender identify as a premise, much in the same way I reject religion and having to choose a favourite football team.
(Plus, of course, God believes in you)
0 -
Your ethnicity and religion are not recorded on your passport because they are no business of government which is those identities you hold.bondegezou said:
If we accept gender is a social construct, does that mean that we should ignore gender in law? Should we support or make life difficult for people who want to change gender?CarlottaVance said:
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
Ethnicity is a social construct. Religion is a social construct. These things have protection in law (albeit different ones). Money is a social construct. Democracy is a social construct. Lots of interesting and nice things are social constructs!
Your sex is recorded on your passport, presumably because, in the past, people of different sex were treated differently under the law. Perhaps, rather than get into a tangle over whether the passport should record gender, or biological sex, and whether there should be a way to change between the two, we might consider simply removing it from the passport?
Or if biological sex is still relevant, because we treat people differently in some circumstances because of their sex, then we should be clear that the passport/birth certificate records a person's biological sex, and they are free to adopt a different gender identity if they please.0 -
Yes, we found in many working class areas some voters not bothering to vote this year in the local elections even if they had voted last year for the party when Boris was still leader.Heathener said:To @MikeSmithson I'd add that this is not just about Boris, although some of it is.
Boris is definitely part of the problem because he reached a wing of voters, mainly northern red wall ones, who Sunak not only doesn't reach, but whom he has alienated. Boris has not gone away. Or, rather, by his exile he is reminding them of what they no longer have. Remember, they did not vote for Sunak. Every time Boris sticks his column in the Mail he's enflaming them against Sunak. These are also largely the 2019 stayaways who Mike has been warning about.
But there are two other whammies
One is the mortgage crisis, which is awful.
The other inflation, ditto.
Middle class voters generally prefer Rishi to Boris, problem is many of them went LD or Starmer Labour last year and as the local election results proved aren't coming back even with Rishi.
PB being overwhelmingly middle class picks up the latter demographic but not the former0 -
What have I written that is misogynist?Heathener said:
You are an out-and-out obsessive on this topic, as well as a misogynist.CarlottaVance said:
gender?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in0 -
I wasn't denying your position. You seem to have avoided engaging with most of my questions. They're still there if you wish to come back to them later.CarlottaVance said:
If it’s not a social construct what is it?bondegezou said:
If we accept gender is a social construct,CarlottaVance said:
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
If I say “I don’t believe in god” I’m not instantly denounced for promoting a Christian/Muslim genocide, of denying the existence of Christians, or having the police set upon me for hate speech. The trans community have been very poorly served by the authoritarian “no debate” trans activists.
I'm not defending the over-the-top authoritarian rhetoric used by some activists. (I will note that you have spoken strongly against trans issues and the police haven't been set upon you, AFAIK.)0 -
And that is before the mortgage crisis hits. The "Conservatives" still have more damage to inflict on themselves before the Great Wipeout occurs!Heathener said:From the previous thread:
Survation's 18% Labour lead just out is the highest for 4 months.
The mean Labour lead of the last 6 national opinion polls is 19.33% and there's remarkable convergence too with the deviation only between 18% and 22%.
Every single one of those polls also has the combined Lab-LibDem percentage between 55-58% which I suggest is the most significant figure given the likely anti-Conservative tactical vote.
All 6 polls have the Conservatives in the 20's.
Them's the facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election1 -
I could rip you to shreds on this topic ref. both your limited and reductionist pseudo-scientific comprehension of the complexities of sex and muddled views about gender but:CarlottaVance said:
If it’s not a social construct what is it?bondegezou said:
If we accept gender is a social construct,CarlottaVance said:
How do you prove your gender? How do you test for it?WillG said:
That's rubbish. Of course everyone has a gender identity. I think of myself as male. Even if you are the sort of person that thinks all trans people are mentally deluded, any everyone by rights should have the same gender and biological sex, gender identity still provably exists. In the way that a soul isn't provable.CarlottaVance said:There’s an old joke from Glasgow:
“Are you Catholic or Protestant?”
“Neither, I’m Atheist.”
“Aye, but are you a Catholic Atheist or a Protestant Atheist?”
That’s the problem with ‘cis’ - it buys into the belief system, it assumes you have a ‘gender identity’……
Insisting everyone has a ‘gender identity’ is akin to insisting everyone has a ‘soul’. It’s not insulting in itself, but if you keep on about it and can’t grasp that some people don’t share your belief, then they might get narked at you.
“But ‘cis’ just means the opposite of ‘trans’!”
Great - so what does ‘trans’ mean? It can’t be defined without referring to ‘gender identity’, a metaphysical belief.
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1671533767691759621?s=20
Your sex is in your chromosomes and for the overwhelming majority demonstrated in their reproductive organs. It’s binary in the overwhelming majority of mammals.
How many genders are there?
107?
https://www.sexualdiversity.org/edu/1111.php
If not, how many? And how do you prove it?
Gender is a social construct and a belief system.
Unsurprisingly some are rejecting compelled belief and compelled speech.
If I say “I don’t believe in god” I’m not instantly denounced for promoting a Christian/Muslim genocide, of denying the existence of Christians, or having the police set upon me for hate speech. The trans community have been very poorly served by the authoritarian “no debate” trans activists.
1. This isn't the right place. It's a political forum and, with respect to you, this
2. Is of very little relevance to the vast majority of people, most of whom don't rub shoulders with either trans male to females or trans females to males (remarkably absent from discussions by the anti-woke Right I note)
3. I have little desire, as a woman, to debate with irate old men like you who seem to think they know what a woman is but whose other views usually reveal them to be out-and-out misogynists.
This may raise its head in a GE campaign but it will do so for the barest moment. It's a clear sign to me that the Conservatives are losing. We had all this nonsense before in a different guise under John Major with his Back to Basics bullshit.
Your 1997 awaits.0 -
So which one of you is Spartacus?viewcode said:
And of course... I'm Batman.viewcode said:
I am vengeance. I am the night...viewcode said:
I am death incarnate...viewcode said:0 -
If he combines fans of the Kennedy brand with leftwingers who voted for Sanders in the 2020 Democratic primaries, he could yet run Biden close.noneoftheabove said:
Even of primary Kennedy supporters they are supporting him because they know little about him beyond his family name. Only 12% of his own supporters go for his views/policies with 4% going for would do a good job, vs combined 57% for family connections/want to know more/is a democrat/would consider any candidate.HYUFD said:
Had Bobby Kennedy not been shot he not Humphrey would likely have been Democratic nominee in 1968 and he would probably have beaten Nixon then to win the Presidency. Could Robert Kennedy Jnr do what his father narrowly missed, remember LBJ like Biden was at one stage hoping to run again as incumbent Presidentrottenborough said:Take Bobby Kennedy Jr. Seriously, Not Literally
"Sixty-six percent of registered voters think Biden is too old to be president and 59 percent have doubts about his mental fitness, according to a Harvard CAPS-Harris poll conducted last week."
"Biden is a weak candidate against almost any Republican, including Trump, and he’s probably even weaker with Kamala Harris as his running mate."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/20/opinion/robert-kennedy-democrat-president-2024.html
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23825119/cnn-poll-2024-democratic-primary.pdf
What is the main reason you would consider supporEng Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.? [OPEN-END]
May 17-20, 2023
Kennedy name/Family connecaons 20%
Do not know enough/Want to learn more 17%
Support his views/policies 12%
Would consider any candidate/Open-minded 10%
Is a Democrat/Not a Republican 10%
Qualified/Has poliacal experience 7%
Support any Democrat over Trump/Is not Trump 5%
Not Biden/Alternaave to Biden 4%
Would do a good job/Is a good leader 4%
Environmental posiaons/Climate 4%
Could win 3%
Someone new/Fresh face/Fresh ideas 3%
Age/Younger 3%
Could step in if Biden unable 1%
Other 9%
No opinion 8%
Not only Bobby Kennedy under LBJ's Presidency in 1968 but Ted Kennedy too v Carter in 1980 shows Kennedys are not afraid of challenging incumbent Democratic Presidents. Ted Kennedy also backed Obama in 2008 v establishment frontrunner Hillary Clinton0
