Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I suspect Dura might have, I believe the military promote it because it's safer?
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
UKPollingReport has Labour on 348 seats (on the old boundaries) based on the latest polls, 22 seats clear of the number needed for a majority. I think they're using uniform swing.
Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Common in helicopters.
'cargo' planes the option is sideways
Yes, helicopters swoop in any old direction so which way your seat faces hardly matters. I've done about 500 plane rides and just the 1 in a helicopter - and the only genuine emergency incident in all of that flight time was in the 'copter.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
UKPollingReport has Labour on 348 seats (on the old boundaries) based on the latest polls, 22 seats clear of the number needed for a majority. I think they're using uniform swing.
(And why old boundaries? There is surely zero chance of an election happening on them? New boundaries means Labour is getting ever closer to a minority...)
Not sure that doctors enjoy the same level of public support for their action, as do lower-paid public sector workers such as nurses and teachers. Presumably we should see some polling this week?
Junior doctors' real terms pay has fallen by over a quarter in the last 15 years. They get plenty of sympathy from me.
Someone who was a junior doctor 15 years ago, now earns how much on average? I’ll take a guess at £65k.
With all the uplifts likely more and if a consultant lots lots more
Bigger revelation to me was that "The firm became well-known in the 1950s and 1960s when people held 'Tupperware parties' in their homes to sell plastic containers for food storage."
I'd always believed a 'tupperware party' was some kind of euphemism used by suburban swingers. Could have been huge confusion and disappointment on either(?) side from such a misunderstanding I was once invited to one by a promiscuous female acquaintance at university, which I declined - now wondering whether I missed out on some bargain food storage tubs
I've heard people talk about them a lot, and I can assure you it wouldn't have been anything to do with suburban swingers. 😊
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Ok, I'm picking up authentic knowledge and sincerity here. I'll check next time I'm on one, though, just to make sure you're not bullshitting me.
Bigger revelation to me was that "The firm became well-known in the 1950s and 1960s when people held 'Tupperware parties' in their homes to sell plastic containers for food storage."
I'd always believed a 'tupperware party' was some kind of euphemism used by suburban swingers. Could have been huge confusion and disappointment on either(?) side from such a misunderstanding I was once invited to one by a promiscuous female acquaintance at university, which I declined - now wondering whether I missed out on some bargain food storage tubs
If you were declining invites from promiscuous females, why were you at University? Were you hoping to go there to get signed up the KGB? And maybe you missed their honey trap?
"Comrade, we will infiltrate western capitalism by the medium of "tupperware"....."
One can only keep up with so many invitations. Every man needs a break
(Also, my gf at the time was a vetinary student - I don't doubt that I would have been castrated had I strayed )
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Ok, I'm picking up authentic knowledge and sincerity here. I'll check next time I'm on one, though, just to make sure you're not bullshitting me.
You mean you're such a Tory, that you've never been on a train???
UKPollingReport has Labour on 348 seats (on the old boundaries) based on the latest polls, 22 seats clear of the number needed for a majority. I think they're using uniform swing.
(And why old boundaries? There is surely zero chance of an election happening on them? New boundaries means Labour is getting ever closer to a minority...)
Probably because the new boundaries aren't finalised and so there are no notional results for them yet?
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Ok, I'm picking up authentic knowledge and sincerity here. I'll check next time I'm on one, though, just to make sure you're not bullshitting me.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I suspect Dura might have, I believe the military promote it because it's safer?
You can't take off facing backwards. The cabin crew can but not the pilot. And Dura wouldn't be cabin crew, would he? He wouldn't be serving the drinks and nibbles. Not in this world.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Bigger revelation to me was that "The firm became well-known in the 1950s and 1960s when people held 'Tupperware parties' in their homes to sell plastic containers for food storage."
I'd always believed a 'tupperware party' was some kind of euphemism used by suburban swingers. Could have been huge confusion and disappointment on either(?) side from such a misunderstanding I was once invited to one by a promiscuous female acquaintance at university, which I declined - now wondering whether I missed out on some bargain food storage tubs
I've heard people talk about them a lot, and I can assure you it wouldn't have been anything to do with suburban swingers. 😊
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
Perhaps it's right to channel the spirit of our departed (from PB only, obvs) @Charles and say that there are tables (ie you can fly backwards) on the Queen's Flight.
Also I seem to remember on (military) Tristars the seats are backwards facing.
A Russian priest on the state TV channel is calling to "burn Ukrainians like pagans.” He continues to say that Ukrainians “need to be liquidated without having second thoughts!" This is the kind of “Christianity” that Russia wants to impose on Ukraine and the rest of the world. https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1645328319137628161
That's SPAS TV which is owned by the Moscow Patriarch so it's not a 'state' channel though I have no doubt the Russian government has some sympathy for the sentiment.
It is quite revolting - the absolute opposite of Christianity and the teachings of the Gospels.
Reminds me of that Bishop in the South of France, who, when fighting the Cathars told his men, on capturing a town with both heretics and non heretics in it to “kill them all; God will know his own!”
Drove past the Royal this am Intending to beep my horn in solidarity with junior doctors, nothing! What the hell is going on, is industrial action now banned in one party police state Scotland?
Question. If we have a one party police state in Scotland, why did the police state just dawn raid the one party, arrest its ex boss and confiscate huge amounts of papers and computers from its HQ?
In a police state, the state have the police dawn raid everyone else, not the party in charge...
If you are referring to the raid on Sturgeon's house she left at 8.10 am, 20 minutes before the police arrived at the empty house
Presumably she was made aware of the situation to leave in time
Hardly a dawn raid
I thought that the "Sturgeon left first" story had been debunked.
Example: It is now understood Mr Murrell was arrested around 7.35am by plainclothes officers with Ms Sturgeon leaving after 8am before uniformed officers arrived on the scene. Since then, cops have been seen searching the couple's home and garden.
Apparently 'digging up the garden' was a media myth as well! THough the wording here in the quote seems to be correct - they were poking around the shed etc.
Sadly as speculated at the time the most likely explanation was that they were just moving stuff about. I think the police were having a bit of fun.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Did the Tristars also have backwards seats I remember going somewhere (Belize?) and we were flying backwards or was that a VC-10.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Drove past the Royal this am Intending to beep my horn in solidarity with junior doctors, nothing! What the hell is going on, is industrial action now banned in one party police state Scotland?
Question. If we have a one party police state in Scotland, why did the police state just dawn raid the one party, arrest its ex boss and confiscate huge amounts of papers and computers from its HQ?
In a police state, the state have the police dawn raid everyone else, not the party in charge...
If you are referring to the raid on Sturgeon's house she left at 8.10 am, 20 minutes before the police arrived at the empty house
Presumably she was made aware of the situation to leave in time
Hardly a dawn raid
I thought that the "Sturgeon left first" story had been debunked.
Example: It is now understood Mr Murrell was arrested around 7.35am by plainclothes officers with Ms Sturgeon leaving after 8am before uniformed officers arrived on the scene. Since then, cops have been seen searching the couple's home and garden.
Apparently 'digging up the garden' was a media myth as well! THough the wording here in the quote seems to be correct - they were poking around the shed etc.
Sadly as speculated at the time the most likely explanation was that they were just moving stuff about. I think the police were having a bit of fun.
My personal thought was that the police wanted a staging area outside the house to box up and label documents etc, before it got put in the van.
That and privacy to prevent long lensing by the media of everything.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Ah ha - I knew I wasn't mistaken.
Driver?
I'm loving the energy and passion you are bringing to the overhead locker debate.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has allegedly happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
Drove past the Royal this am Intending to beep my horn in solidarity with junior doctors, nothing! What the hell is going on, is industrial action now banned in one party police state Scotland?
Question. If we have a one party police state in Scotland, why did the police state just dawn raid the one party, arrest its ex boss and confiscate huge amounts of papers and computers from its HQ?
In a police state, the state have the police dawn raid everyone else, not the party in charge...
If you are referring to the raid on Sturgeon's house she left at 8.10 am, 20 minutes before the police arrived at the empty house
Presumably she was made aware of the situation to leave in time
Hardly a dawn raid
I thought that the "Sturgeon left first" story had been debunked.
Example: It is now understood Mr Murrell was arrested around 7.35am by plainclothes officers with Ms Sturgeon leaving after 8am before uniformed officers arrived on the scene. Since then, cops have been seen searching the couple's home and garden.
Apparently 'digging up the garden' was a media myth as well! THough the wording here in the quote seems to be correct - they were poking around the shed etc.
Sadly as speculated at the time the most likely explanation was that they were just moving stuff about. I think the police were having a bit of fun.
There’s no fun like one party police state fun. The Lubyanka has always been notorious for the uproarious laughter to be heard from its portals.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
A Russian priest on the state TV channel is calling to "burn Ukrainians like pagans.” He continues to say that Ukrainians “need to be liquidated without having second thoughts!" This is the kind of “Christianity” that Russia wants to impose on Ukraine and the rest of the world. https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1645328319137628161
That's SPAS TV which is owned by the Moscow Patriarch so it's not a 'state' channel though I have no doubt the Russian government has some sympathy for the sentiment.
It is quite revolting - the absolute opposite of Christianity and the teachings of the Gospels.
Reminds me of that Bishop in the South of France, who, when fighting the Cathars told his men, on capturing a town with both heretics and non heretics in it to “kill them all; God will know his own!”
According to my step-mother (Russian), the Russian Orthodox Church, which was heavily infiltrated by the communist state, is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Putinist State.
So finding them spewing Putinism is extremely unsurprising.
On topic. I think that the "junior doctors" will before too long run out of sympathy. There is only so long that the public sees what appear to be very well educated, charming young people, perhaps with knitted scarves and mascots on the picket line and withdrawing treatment from the poorest in society, before they think "hold on".
Class war! Is it only horny handed sons (& daughters) of toil who can depend on public support for industrial action?
Everything is relative. "Junior doctors" are predominantly in the 5% if not the 1% but by all means man the barricades on their behalf.
As I mentioned previously I’ve been searching for barricades to man but a mysterious dearth of them in Scotland,
Junior doctors in Scotland are currently balloting about possible strike action. Close of voting is 5 May, leaving enough time for the current dispute to be settled before the local elections an a similar settlement to be reached with the Barnett consequentials.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
It seems to me that although Danker's dismissal may have been the result of specific findings from the investigation which have yet to been made public, it's also very possible that the risk of an unfair dismissal claim from him at some future date simply pales into insignificance against the wider risk to the organisation of being without a leader now.
Practical reality has to kick in. There has been no way back for Danker at the CBI for a while, so it was a question of how and when it came to an end. Meanwhile, the CBI are in an existential crisis. It might have been an option a couple of weeks ago, but they just can't afford now to mess about with some kind of drawn out process to ease him out, with an interim leader with no real authority, then a recruitment process for a successor. They had to ditch him quickly and replace him. Maybe he'll quietly get a few £100k in a settlement agreement at some later date, but that's become a reasonably small price for the CBI to pay.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
Yes, indeed. Some GB trains have such areas too, especially those which serve airports.
I did think about writing "I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train in the UK" but I figured from the context that was obvious.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Did the Tristars also have backwards seats I remember going somewhere (Belize?) and we were flying backwards or was that a VC-10.
I went to the Falklands on an RAF Trishaw and that had forward facing seats. The cabins were palletised so it's possible they could have put the seats in backwards sometimes. Counting all the time that the aircraft was broken the entire journey took five and a half days and I didn't see a bed or my seabag for any of it. Then I was so late that I got driven straight from Maggie's Pleasant Airfield to the ship.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
Yes, indeed. Some GB trains have such areas too, especially those which serve airports.
I did think about writing "I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train in the UK" but I figured from the context that was obvious.
Not really - Transpenine express removed the luggage area on their newer trains to have more seats and the biggest complaint on the Elizabeth line is a lack of luggage space (for it has none given that it was built for commuters)
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
Yes, indeed. Some GB trains have such areas too, especially those which serve airports.
I did think about writing "I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train in the UK" but I figured from the context that was obvious.
Not really - Transpenine express removed the luggage area on their newer trains to have more seats and the biggest complaint on the Elizabeth line is a lack of luggage space (for it has none given that it was built for commuters)
Perfectly decent upper racks on IC125 and 225 trains. Not big enough for suitcases but fine for a bag or rucksack.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Ah ha - I knew I wasn't mistaken.
Driver?
It's alright to admit you love me.
Hardly a secret. How many people do you think I've asked Keir to send a personally signed advance copy of the Labour manifesto to?
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short of what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
The Andrew Tate comment was spot on in my opinion.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
Yes, indeed. Some GB trains have such areas too, especially those which serve airports.
I did think about writing "I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train in the UK" but I figured from the context that was obvious.
Not really - Transpenine express removed the luggage area on their newer trains to have more seats and the biggest complaint on the Elizabeth line is a lack of luggage space (for it has none given that it was built for commuters)
Perfectly decent upper racks on IC125 and 225 trains. Not big enough for suitcases but fine for a bag or rucksack.
Let me introduce you to my 48 year old friend who retired on a BR pension aged 36 due to results of a bag falling from the overhead rack on to her head.
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Ah ha - I knew I wasn't mistaken.
Driver?
I'm loving the energy and passion you are bringing to the overhead locker debate.
Thank you. Although it dawns that I've been talking at cross purposes to everybody else. Both on the lockers and on pilots flying planes backwards. I genuinely thought the latter never happened. Certainly I've never seen it either in real life or in films.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
Traditionally aircraft flight engineers flew not facing forwards
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. [snip]
You toff! Us working class northern folk thought immediately of buses, didn't we TSE?
Buses are actually my milieu these days. I travel free and often on them. And what you want is top deck front left. Each bus has only one of them - and none at all unless it's a double decker - so if you can bags it that's much much bigger than anything seat related that can happen on a plane or train.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
No ‘theoretically’ about it. Every commercial pilot is trained to be able to fly the plane purely by reference to the instruments in front of him (or her), for every phase of flight except the landing, and they have an “Instrument Rating” on their licence. They train for this by wearing a hood that doesn’t let them see out of the windows! Landing on a foggy day is done by an automatic landing system on the plane, with the pilot monitoring and prepared to go around if the computer screws up.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. [snip]
You toff! Us working class northern folk thought immediately of buses, didn't we TSE?
Buses are actually my milieu these days. I travel free and often on them. And what you want is top deck front left. Each bus has only one of them - and none at all unless it's a double decker - so if you can bags it that's much much bigger than anything seat related that can happen on a plane or train.
Hmm, how about front seat in a driverless DLR (or other similar system elsewhere - the Copenhagen airport one is also fun, but lacks the very slow rollercoaster vibe of the DLR).
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
The reason is always the maximisation of seat density in the cabin. More seats = more revenue from a full plane.
That BA layout is eight across, in business class!
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
That is an interesting position. But it's still facing forwards.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
This is one reason Andrew Tate creates a problem for the 'woke'. They have no way of explaining why women find him attractive, without also denying the agency of the women involved.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
That is an interesting position. But it's still facing forwards.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
Quite recently I went on a biz class flight like that, with paired lie-flat seats, but there were no dividers. So you couldn’t screen yourself off from the person lying right next to you
The whole experience was deeply uncomfortable for everyone (unless the two people lying side by side were already intimate, or planning to be so). It would honestly have been nicer in economy
It struck me as one of the worst design decisions I’d ever encountered on a plane. It’s not like the airline was saving money by cleverly not installing $3 plastic dividers. They were just making sure their Biz class experience was so weird and awkward no one would ever consciously choose it
Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the airline, as I was so keen to erase the entire memory
Some trains have shelves overhead but they're usually not big enough to put much more than a handbag on. I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train.
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
Of course in most European countries trains have a separate area for large luggage at the end of the carriage, but I can understand why Americans, with their low trust levels, wouldn't like to put luggage somewhere they couldn't see it.
I once, on a long journey, forgot which end I'd got on the carriage - was sat more or less mid-carriage - and happily headed down the crowded train to retrieve my luggage on the way out, only to find it missing. Penny dropped, after a moment, but with masses of people behind me I had to get off, run down the outside, push past those waiting to board (explaining as I went) and go back on to retrieve my case, then get back out through the people now boarding. My colleagues (work trip) were wetting themselves.
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
Traditionally aircraft flight engineers flew not facing forwards
Yep. And rear gunners face backwards too. Eg the ill-fated Snowden in Catch 22. But Yossarian never did. Not once in all of his sixty odd missions did he do that.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
This is one reason Andrew Tate creates a problem for the 'woke'. They have no way of explaining why women find him attractive, without also denying the agency of the women involved.
Andrew Tate is a gamma male's ideal of what an alpha male looks like. The man is clearly, despite his fame and riches, deeply insecure. Women don't find him attractive. There are just a small minority of women that are gold diggers and he has a lot of women. When you are famous enough you become visible to more of them in the age of social media. But they always end up treating the supposed "alpha" as badly as the male treats them, which is why both sides end up angry, bitter and hating the opposite sex.
This is PB at its finest. A rainy Tuesday in mid April and a detailed and highly informed discussion of seating and luggage arrangements on various forms of transport. With the odd anecdote about war, hookers and sexual harassment
It’s no wonder we attract so many women to our forum
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
Quite recently I went on a biz class flight like that, with paired lie-flat seats, but there were no dividers. So you couldn’t screen yourself off from the person lying right next to you
The whole experience was deeply uncomfortable for everyone (unless the two people lying side by side were already intimate, or planning to be so). It would honestly have been nicer in economy
It struck me as one of the worst design decisions I’d ever encountered on a plane. It’s not like the airline was saving money by cleverly not installing $3 plastic dividers. They were just making sure their Biz class experience was so weird and awkward no one would ever consciously choose it
Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the airline, as I was so keen to erase the entire memory
I've got a relative that works in this industry who deals with leasing of planes, he said that making any changes to these seats, even just the process of rebranding, is nighmareishly complicated and expensive. So you really need to get it right in the initial design.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
That is an interesting position. But it's still facing forwards.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. [snip]
You toff! Us working class northern folk thought immediately of buses, didn't we TSE?
Buses are actually my milieu these days. I travel free and often on them. And what you want is top deck front left. Each bus has only one of them - and none at all unless it's a double decker - so if you can bags it that's much much bigger than anything seat related that can happen on a plane or train.
You can usually see if that seat is vacant as the bus arrives. So the question is, when it is occupied, have you ever been sad enough to wait for the next bus in the hope that your favourite seat will be free? Not that I have, of course.....
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
This is one reason Andrew Tate creates a problem for the 'woke'. They have no way of explaining why women find him attractive, without also denying the agency of the women involved.
Andrew Tate is a gamma male's ideal of what an alpha male looks like. The man is clearly, despite his fame and riches, deeply insecure. Women don't find him attractive. There are just a small minority of women that are gold diggers and he has a lot of women. When you are famous enough you become visible to more of them in the age of social media. But they always end up treating the supposed "alpha" as badly as the male treats them, which is why both sides end up angry, bitter and hating the opposite sex.
How do you know whether or not women find him attractive?
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
That is an interesting position. But it's still facing forwards.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
This is one reason Andrew Tate creates a problem for the 'woke'. They have no way of explaining why women find him attractive, without also denying the agency of the women involved.
Andrew Tate is a gamma male's ideal of what an alpha male looks like. The man is clearly, despite his fame and riches, deeply insecure. Women don't find him attractive. There are just a small minority of women that are gold diggers and he has a lot of women. When you are famous enough you become visible to more of them in the age of social media. But they always end up treating the supposed "alpha" as badly as the male treats them, which is why both sides end up angry, bitter and hating the opposite sex.
Your first sentence makes a kind of sense. But the rest of it is quite incoherent. Try again
Bigger revelation to me was that "The firm became well-known in the 1950s and 1960s when people held 'Tupperware parties' in their homes to sell plastic containers for food storage."
I'd always believed a 'tupperware party' was some kind of euphemism used by suburban swingers. Could have been huge confusion and disappointment on either(?) side from such a misunderstanding I was once invited to one by a promiscuous female acquaintance at university, which I declined - now wondering whether I missed out on some bargain food storage tubs
If you were declining invites from promiscuous females, why were you at University? Were you hoping to go there to get signed up the KGB? And maybe you missed their honey trap?
"Comrade, we will infiltrate western capitalism by the medium of "tupperware"....."
I always assumed after being invited back for coffee, the nubile in the negligee was either a Soviet agent or worse still a Conservative honey trap.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
Sure I have. Crab Air VC-10 C.1K. Brize to Akrotiri. It was alright except for the certain knowledge that the RAF cabin crew would have made sure that every comestible served to RN officers had a generous garnish of dick cheese.
Oh yuck. But to be 100% clear on this, I'm talking about you (or Cruise) being the pilot and facing backwards as you fly the plane. That surely never occurs?
Theoretically, yes, I know. I went to Imperial College and my best friend there did Aeronautics. But does it ever happen in practice? I can't see any upside whatsoever.
The most interesting pilot position tried was the Prone Meteor (pilot lying on his stomach)
That is an interesting position. But it's still facing forwards.
All American Nazi sympathiser Lindbergh’s Spirit of St Louis had no forward vision and the pilot had to look out of side windows, so in theory you could have faced backwards. I guess the pilot’s instinct is always to face forward though, sensibly enough.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
This is one reason Andrew Tate creates a problem for the 'woke'. They have no way of explaining why women find him attractive, without also denying the agency of the women involved.
Andrew Tate is just a pimp. Men like him have always existed - there's nothing to explain - you find a weakness in another person, and you exploit it. He's not an alpha male, just the worst kind of grifter.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short of what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
The Andrew Tate comment was spot on in my opinion.
"concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles"
I cannot believe that "viewing" was, in and of itself, the sackable offence.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. [snip]
You toff! Us working class northern folk thought immediately of buses, didn't we TSE?
Buses are actually my milieu these days. I travel free and often on them. And what you want is top deck front left. Each bus has only one of them - and none at all unless it's a double decker - so if you can bags it that's much much bigger than anything seat related that can happen on a plane or train.
You can usually see if that seat is vacant as the bus arrives. So the question is, when it is occupied, have you ever been sad enough to wait for the next bus in the hope that your favourite seat will be free? Not that I have, of course.....
I used to bag the front right - or the rear - seat on the old DMU trains when they still had glass backing to the driver's cab (many dfrivers pulled the blind down directly behind them). Great view of the Forth Bridge, Box Tunnel, etc. etc. But a deathtrap by modern standards, I now realise.
A Russian priest on the state TV channel is calling to "burn Ukrainians like pagans.” He continues to say that Ukrainians “need to be liquidated without having second thoughts!" This is the kind of “Christianity” that Russia wants to impose on Ukraine and the rest of the world. https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1645328319137628161
I've always wondered what 'muscular Christianity' was all about.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
And lo we transport ourselves, in the blink of an eye, to the snug at the old bull and bush, where Miles is holding forth.
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
Quite recently I went on a biz class flight like that, with paired lie-flat seats, but there were no dividers. So you couldn’t screen yourself off from the person lying right next to you
The whole experience was deeply uncomfortable for everyone (unless the two people lying side by side were already intimate, or planning to be so). It would honestly have been nicer in economy
It struck me as one of the worst design decisions I’d ever encountered on a plane. It’s not like the airline was saving money by cleverly not installing $3 plastic dividers. They were just making sure their Biz class experience was so weird and awkward no one would ever consciously choose it
Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the airline, as I was so keen to erase the entire memory
I've got a relative that works in this industry who deals with leasing of planes, he said that making any changes to these seats, even just the process of rebranding, is nighmareishly complicated and expensive. So you really need to get it right in the initial design.
That initial design meeting must have taken place during an ayahuasca ceremony
“People like to chat on planes don’t they?”
“Yes, so let’s design our biz class cabin so that not only can they chat easily, when they are asleep they are essentially forced to cuddle each other, and actually sense when the nearest male passenger has an erection”
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short of what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
The Andrew Tate comment was spot on in my opinion.
The intersecting set of those who pay any attention both to what goes on at the CBI, and the distasteful posturings of Tate, is likely a very small one indeed.
Not sure that doctors enjoy the same level of public support for their action, as do lower-paid public sector workers such as nurses and teachers. Presumably we should see some polling this week?
Junior doctors' real terms pay has fallen by over a quarter in the last 15 years. They get plenty of sympathy from me.
2% payrise in the finyear just ended with 11% inflation was just insulting. 3.5% this year is another real terms pay cut.
Barclay needs to re-open negotiations with a serious offer.
The university strikes continue too.
And the teachers too. I'd wade through blood to get Labour in and stop the Tories destroying my kids' education.
I just read about the reason why Dunker got fired from the CBI. No 'resignation', just an immediate dismissal. The reason is "unwanted contact" that a female employee viewed "as sexual harassment". I do think that sexual harrassment is a very serious problem that should be tackled but it seem to me like a career destroying dismissal is a nuclear response generated by reputational panic on the part of the employer. This form of "revolutionary justice" is ultimately in no ones interest and we need to move away from it. From a practical point of view if you look at what fuels the popularity of masculine counter cultural figures like Andrew Tate, it is events like this.
That explanation of why he was fired (as with the official account) falls some way short if what might be expected.
That particular complaint was only one of several: ...After the Guardian inquired on Thursday about the formal complaint and raised several additional allegations about Danker’s behaviour towards other members of staff, including concern that the director general had been viewing employees’ personal Instagram profiles, the CBI said it had started an independent investigation and that Danker had asked to step aside during it... On top of which, he presumably bears some responsibility for the failure of the CBI adequately to investigate a number of other complaints against other individuals.
That you interpret all of that as 'revolutionary justice' as opposed to, for example, corporate coverup, is an interesting choice.
The Andrew Tate comment is just bizarre.
Presumably he either was viewing their public Instagram profiles or was invited to view their private Instagram profiles? Or did he hack Instagram?
Not sure viewing someones social media is worthy of dismissal?
I'm not sure I said it was.
It was the only specific in the link you provided, presumably to add weight to the argument that the dismissal was justified?
That they brought in an outside employment specialist to investigate, and the investigation resulted in dismissal, speaks for itself.
Well that sounds like a much more solid reason to sack someone.
The article says the following:
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year.... Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has probably happened here. It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious. The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment. There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened. Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
On Tate, I'm reminded of the Streisand effect.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Yeah it is quite amusing the panic about Andrew Tate... having some understanding of the process of teenage rebellion I am not sure the best way of dealing with this is to have classes in school that educate teenagers on 'the dangers of Andrew Tate'.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
And lo we transport ourselves, in the blink of an eye, to the snug at the old bull and bush, where Miles is holding forth.
FINALLY you reveal the identity of your secret but favourite bar in Belsize Park
Two of those are obvious lies. He travels by private helicopter, for a start.
Bottom left is just wrong
You grab the window seat and put your bag on the aisle seat.
Don't you put your bag in the overhead locker? Long time since I flew but that's how I remember it.
I believe it's referring to trains.
Ah ok. It was all this 'aisle seat vs window seat' discussion. That spells planes to me. I don't think of train seats that way. With trains the binary I fret about - if I'm in a fretting mood - is facing forwards or facing backwards. I dislike facing backwards on a train. Although not as much as I'd hate to be facing backwards on a plane, come to think of it. Imagine flying backwards. No thank you. Bet even Dura or Tom Cruise haven't done that. I'd probably skip the flight and forget the holiday if that were the only option.
I remember as a kid Dan Air and Air UK used a type of plane where the first two rows faced each other with a table between them like on a train. Didn’t feel weird flying backwards.
More recently, BA long-haul Club World seats were also facing backwards. The alternating forwards and backwards seats weren’t particularly popular with the pax, even if they were with the bean-counters who figured it made for the highest possible density of flat-bed seats in the available space.
Interesting ceiling lights in the club world cabin in the picture above. I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
Quite recently I went on a biz class flight like that, with paired lie-flat seats, but there were no dividers. So you couldn’t screen yourself off from the person lying right next to you
The whole experience was deeply uncomfortable for everyone (unless the two people lying side by side were already intimate, or planning to be so). It would honestly have been nicer in economy
It struck me as one of the worst design decisions I’d ever encountered on a plane. It’s not like the airline was saving money by cleverly not installing $3 plastic dividers. They were just making sure their Biz class experience was so weird and awkward no one would ever consciously choose it
Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the airline, as I was so keen to erase the entire memory
I've got a relative that works in this industry who deals with leasing of planes, he said that making any changes to these seats, even just the process of rebranding, is nighmareishly complicated and expensive. So you really need to get it right in the initial design.
That initial design meeting must have taken place during an ayahuasca ceremony
“People like to chat on planes don’t they?”
“Yes, so let’s design our biz class cabin so that not only can they chat easily, when they are asleep they are essentially forced to cuddle each other, and actually sense when the nearest male passenger has an erection”
That's an even worse design decision than the almost un-upholstered passenger seats that the DTp insists on having in new trains to save money and a few mm of space. Though the latter keeps making it again and again, so ...
Not sure that doctors enjoy the same level of public support for their action, as do lower-paid public sector workers such as nurses and teachers. Presumably we should see some polling this week?
Junior doctors' real terms pay has fallen by over a quarter in the last 15 years. They get plenty of sympathy from me.
2% payrise in the finyear just ended with 11% inflation was just insulting. 3.5% this year is another real terms pay cut.
Barclay needs to re-open negotiations with a serious offer.
The university strikes continue too.
And the teachers too. I'd wade through blood to get Labour in and stop the Tories destroying my kids' education.
By that you mean saving yourself €48?
Or paying the teachers properly so they don't keep quitting or going on strike. Either way, I'd wade through blood to do it. Bucket loads of the stuff.
Comments
There's no satisfaction on Caroline's train
https://pollingreport.uk/seats
Now you have... Amtrak North east corridor in the US.
(And why old boundaries? There is surely zero chance of an election happening on them? New boundaries means Labour is getting ever closer to a minority...)
(Also, my gf at the time was a vetinary student - I don't doubt that I would have been castrated had I strayed
Wow. First Minister Humza Yousaf has just said the SNP auditors resigned six months ago, in October.
Also I seem to remember on (military) Tristars the seats are backwards facing.
Driver?
That and privacy to prevent long lensing by the media of everything.
"It is alleged that as well as unwanted verbal remarks in the office, the UK’s most senior business lobbyist also sent her a barrage of unwanted messages, some featuring sexually suggestive language, over more than a year....
Danker said: “It’s been mortifying to hear that I have caused offence or anxiety to any colleague. It was completely unintentional, and I apologise profusely."
I've seen a lot of this, I don't deny that it goes on and it isn't acceptable. People that still engage in it are failing to understand cultural change and risk get caught out in a bad way, as what has allegedly happened here.
It is possible that this was really bad - we don't know. But the fact that the guardian point to things like 'he also viewed their instagram profiles' to compound the apparent severity is rather curious.
The point I would make here though is that it is better to try and resolve it through better internal procedures, rather than dramatic cancellations and instant dismissals - that is what I mean by my 'revolutionary justice' comment.
There is probably a cultural failing here in the CBI, as there is in many other institutions, so it is probably right that he has left in any event... but even then, I would suggest that a negotiated solution where he resigns saying something like " he has made mistakes and the organisation need new leadership" would be more appropriate than what has actually happened.
Regarding characters like Andrew Tate... my point is just that they feed on narratives of conspiracy which events like this can fuel. Like it or not they have traction with young men.
The Lubyanka has always been notorious for the uproarious laughter to be heard from its portals.
So finding them spewing Putinism is extremely unsurprising.
Practical reality has to kick in. There has been no way back for Danker at the CBI for a while, so it was a question of how and when it came to an end. Meanwhile, the CBI are in an existential crisis. It might have been an option a couple of weeks ago, but they just can't afford now to mess about with some kind of drawn out process to ease him out, with an interim leader with no real authority, then a recruitment process for a successor. They had to ditch him quickly and replace him. Maybe he'll quietly get a few £100k in a settlement agreement at some later date, but that's become a reasonably small price for the CBI to pay.
I did think about writing "I've never seen a plane-style overhead locker on a train in the UK" but I figured from the context that was obvious.
Was chatting to my nephew, early teens. He mentioned Tate, saying they'd had a session at school in one of the tutorials about him. He claimed that he (and his friends) had not heard of Tate, before this, but had - of course - after the session looked him up.
Now, it may be that the session was still worthwhile - they'd have found Tate anyway, perhaps, so better to be (supposedly) more informed when they do. Nephew apparently thought he was a tosser. It does however seem like a bit of a moral panic and daft to be so focused on one person. Better to have sessions on how easy it is to present a false facade on social media and how little social media is policed - i.e. too many tweets make a twat - without getting into the specifics on one person.
Thinking back to myself as a teenager, the thing that always confused me was why girls were often attracted to "bad" characters like Andrew Tate. I would guess that the world and the experience of teenagers within it hasn't changed all that much.
https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1645746757664493570
Lisa Shaw, who worked for BBC Radio Newcastle, died a week after her first Covid jab in May 2021"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/04/10/bbc-presenter-husband-suing-astrazeneca
A rebellious male willing to flout authority gives off alpha vibes. He’s bold, audacious, aggressive - all alpha traits that women are naturally programmed to seek in a sexual partner. Because in days of old that guy would be the better hunter and more likely to survive and feed the kids
A man who womanises is also attractive to other women because they presume he is sexually satisfying. A self fulfilling prophecy
Women tend to seek different things in a husband, however. Fuck the alpha, marry the beta (who will stick around and be loyal as he has less opportunity to stray). Quite tough on deltas and gammas
I also recall these seats of four with two backward facing on domestic flights in Scandinavia in the last decade or so. Not sure why they were set up this way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_flight_rules
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henschel_Hs_132
That BA layout is eight across, in business class!
Not popular, or particularly safe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_XFY_Pogo
The whole experience was deeply uncomfortable for everyone (unless the two people lying side by side were already intimate, or planning to be so). It would honestly have been nicer in economy
It struck me as one of the worst design decisions I’d ever encountered on a plane. It’s not like the airline was saving money by cleverly not installing $3 plastic dividers. They were just making sure their Biz class experience was so weird and awkward no one would ever consciously choose it
Unfortunately I have forgotten the name of the airline, as I was so keen to erase the entire memory
Not reccommended
It’s no wonder we attract so many women to our forum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_XFV
If I got that wrong, I deeply regret it.
I cannot believe that "viewing" was, in and of itself, the sackable offence.
“People like to chat on planes don’t they?”
“Yes, so let’s design our biz class cabin so that not only can they chat easily, when they are asleep they are essentially forced to cuddle each other, and actually sense when the nearest male passenger has an erection”
Possibly over-represented on PB ?
Makes very good sense.
White House launching $5 billion program to speed coronavirus vaccines
‘Project Next Gen’ would succeed ‘Operation Warp Speed’ with a mission to develop next-generation vaccines and therapies
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/10/operation-warp-speed-successor-project-nextgen/