I'm not quite sure why "SKS fans" should have to explain anything.
As to why Sunak's ratings have risen (perhaps more than Starmer's have fallen) I think we can put this down to his steady unremarkable managerialism. He's in Government and governing which is certainly more than his two immediate predecessors managed. Charismatic he's not but competent, yes, I'll cheerfully concede that (and certainly in contrast to Johnson and Truss). He's more in the mould of a Theresa May I think.
There's also the not unreasonable point there's a sense we've got through the winter, spring is coming and there's a prospect of better weather which makes people feel better about life in general. Whether upcoming bills (Council Tax, the end of the winter fuel payment) will continue to stimulate this optimism remains to be seen.
However, and to be absolutely fair, Sunak is at least trying to be Prime Minister and that's been a novelty in recent times.
There's a time and place for more drama and charisma - we have gone through some very dramatic times after all - but it is interesting to wonder how things might have gone if the same approach had been taken for a while. It's not as though Sunak doesn't chase newspaper headlines or try stunts to please wings of his party, but it at least appears he tries stuff around those things as well.
So, to get back to the topic, for just a moment, when will the SNP leadership results be announced? (Roughly is good enough for me, since I don't have a bet on the outcome.)
About 2pm on Monday. UK time.
What time is that on Scotland time? Which I assume is something Ash Regan has proposed.
I'm not quite sure why "SKS fans" should have to explain anything.
As to why Sunak's ratings have risen (perhaps more than Starmer's have fallen) I think we can put this down to his steady unremarkable managerialism. He's in Government and governing which is certainly more than his two immediate predecessors managed. Charismatic he's not but competent, yes, I'll cheerfully concede that (and certainly in contrast to Johnson and Truss). He's more in the mould of a Theresa May I think.
There's also the not unreasonable point there's a sense we've got through the winter, spring is coming and there's a prospect of better weather which makes people feel better about life in general. Whether upcoming bills (Council Tax, the end of the winter fuel payment) will continue to stimulate this optimism remains to be seen.
However, and to be absolutely fair, Sunak is at least trying to be Prime Minister and that's been a novelty in recent times.
I love the way you have actually explained it.
You're very kind - I'm not a fan of Starmer though I think he would also be a reasonable and competent Prime Minister.
I find some elements of the Conservative Party behind Sunak absolutely repellent - I also think in the interests of democracy the "Natural Party of Government" shouldn't be the perpetual Party of Government and periodic changes of governing party are beneficial.
Too many dreary unquestioning Tory rampers on here. Your analysis is always very readable, theirs on the whole, not so much.
I think nearly everyone would agree - that Sunak has seen some improvement (but not much) due to actually doing an NI deal, getting it through the Commons, a deal with France, settled a couple of the strikes. And a budget that didn’t explode.
Not going to win an election. But a certain amount of Getting Things Done.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
On the SNP Leader contest I did ask my 'doesn't really pay attention to politics' contact to see if they knew anything about it. They hesistantly asked if one of them was a homophobe or something. I'm just impressed they'd heard about the contest at all, pretty sure I completely missed the last Welsh Labour leader contest.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
The Windsor Framework was ratified by the UK and EU today in London
Sunak has told the DUP and the remnants of the ERG it will not be further renegotiated, and additional Sunak is talking to the EU over horizon and improved trade in this new climate of cooperation he has promoted
The WF is his legacy no matter what happens in 24
It was also a first for a longtime for Sunak and Drakeford to act jointly in attending Holyhead to promote its new status aa a free port in a similar collegiate attitude he showed to the EU. Johnson and Truss would never have thought of this approach to politics
Sunak should speak to Biden about whether if Alliance or the UUP were invited to provide the Deputy First Minister, the Good Friday Agreement could be deemed to continue.
It would have to be a UUP DFM under the GFA as if the FM is a Nationalist the DFM must be a Unionist (the Alliance could provide ministers to the executive, combined SF, the Alliance and UUP would have a clear majority with 53 out of 90 MLAs)
So, to get back to the topic, for just a moment, when will the SNP leadership results be announced? (Roughly is good enough for me, since I don't have a bet on the outcome.)
About 2pm on Monday. UK time.
What time is that on Scotland time? Which I assume is something Ash Regan has proposed.
Since the King is the Head of the Church of England, and the coronation is a religious service held in Westminster Abbey overseen by the Archbishop of Canterbury, being surprised that it's a Christian ceremony is about as much of a shock to me as learning the true meaning of Christmas.
Maybe, but if you don’t follow the royals and their weird protocols then why would you know?
I guess most people think church-and-state is, well, a bit odd…
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
True. Though I personally find "I was for the concept of the monarchy, but the display of wealth, privilege, and religiosity in the ceremony put me off" to be an odd and likely small group too, though even some monarchists have implied it.
As I understood it, Chazbo is planning to use the ceremony to showcase his multifaith approach. He's been obsessed with both his dad's original faith of Greek Orthodoxy and many and various Eastern religions for years.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
Well quite, but then the Royals are very much into religion (to a point). All part of the show, isn’t it. And it’s at the Abbey, so that kinda follows too. Remember, before @HYUFD tells you, it’s bishops who run the show, anointing with holy chrism, and all by the grace of God etc.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
Why is the coronation a religious thing? Because it always has been. I wouldn't expect everyone to automatically know that, but until we disestablish the church it is what it is. The religious position of the monarch tends to be pretty underplayed, but it's always there.
I'm an atheist, so religious events tend to make me snooze off, but then important civic occasions usually do anyway.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
The Windsor Framework was ratified by the UK and EU today in London
Sunak has told the DUP and the remnants of the ERG it will not be further renegotiated, and additional Sunak is talking to the EU over horizon and improved trade in this new climate of cooperation he has promoted
The WF is his legacy no matter what happens in 24
It was also a first for a longtime for Sunak and Drakeford to act jointly in attending Holyhead to promote its new status aa a free port in a similar collegiate attitude he showed to the EU. Johnson and Truss would never have thought of this approach to politics
Sunak should speak to Biden about whether if Alliance or the UUP were invited to provide the Deputy First Minister, the Good Friday Agreement could be deemed to continue.
It would have to be a UUP DFM under the GFA as if the FM is a Nationalist the DFM must be a Unionist (the Alliance could provide ministers to the executive, combined SF, the Alliance and UUP would have a clear majority with 53 out of 90 MLAs)
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
True. Though I personally find "I was for the concept of the monarchy, but the display of wealth, privilege, and religiosity in the ceremony put me off" to be an odd and likely small group too, though even some monarchists have implied it.
As I understood it, Chazbo is planning to use the ceremony to showcase his multifaith approach. He's been obsessed with both his dad's original faith of Greek Orthodoxy and many and various Eastern religions for years.
IIRC there were representatives of all manner of faiths at the Queen's funeral, and words from other Christian denominations as part of the service, so despite being 'led' by the official church it was pretty inclusive as these things go. I'm sure Charles can manage something along those lines
So, to get back to the topic, for just a moment, when will the SNP leadership results be announced? (Roughly is good enough for me, since I don't have a bet on the outcome.)
About 2pm on Monday. UK time.
What time is that on Scotland time? Which I assume is something Ash Regan has proposed.
Still 2pm, but 5 years ago, so that the ferries will be delivered on time!
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
Well quite, but then the Royals are very much into religion (to a point). All part of the show, isn’t it. And it’s at the Abbey, so that kinda follows too. Remember, before @HYUFD tells you, it’s bishops who run the show, anointing with holy chrism, and all by the grace of God etc.
In fairness, I’ll be down the pub and paying zero attention probably.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Hence the CoE - a church with nearly all the God bothering removed. Basically a tea drinking club.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
As posted earlier, 660,000 attend the Church of England - less than 1% of the (UK) population.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
True. Though I personally find "I was for the concept of the monarchy, but the display of wealth, privilege, and religiosity in the ceremony put me off" to be an odd and likely small group too, though even some monarchists have implied it.
As I understood it, Chazbo is planning to use the ceremony to showcase his multifaith approach. He's been obsessed with both his dad's original faith of Greek Orthodoxy and many and various Eastern religions for years.
IIRC there were representatives of all manner of faiths at the Queen's funeral, and words from other Christian denominations as part of the service, so despite being 'led' by the official church it was pretty inclusive as these things go. I'm sure Charles can manage something along those lines
Indeed ministers from the Church of Scotland and Pentecostal churches and the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Westminster all spoke or said prayers at the Queen's funeral as well as the Archbishop of Canterbury
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not. Even excluding UK Buddhists who believe Buddha was an 'extraordinary being' not a God.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Despite being formally a post-mediaeval theocracy with the Church of England the ideological arm of the Conservative Party. ,
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
He would have to if He didn't exist; it's core to the Tory Party programme, like Royalty and screwing the workers to preserive Home Counties houseowners' legacies free of IHT.
Err no albanians have no business here full stop. Be fucking less open and stop telling poor people they have to share meagre services between more and more people who aren't paying a single shekel
“Albanians have no business here at all”? What, any of them? Oh, ok. You’re just an old school racist and I can ignore you.
Its not a racist thing....they aren't refugees, albania isnt at civil war last I heard....why are they therefore arriving on boats claiming to be refugees. Albanians can apply for normal migrant status which is I believe you need a job paying a mere 26k a year. They have no business being on boats
That was rather the point of my first post, that you were replying to. I’d get rid of all those barriers… we should want these folk.
With migrants we should want net contributors.....what we dont need is minimum wage migrants. They don't add to net revenue all they do is supress wages. Have a job where you are a net gain come by all means....have a job where you aren't and sorry most minimum wage jobs aren't then all you are doing is providing an unlimited labour pool to keep those jobs min wage
And yet right now we can't get enough people from inside this country to do all those minimum wage jobs - the sorts of jobs that are vital to the running of our society but which no one seems to want to do. If you don't import that labour, how do you fill those vacancies in an aging population?
Immigration is a ponzi scheme...we need to learn how to live with a falling population. Africa is more or less the only place in the world with an above replacement birthrate....I suspect eventually it will catch up and have a falling rate too just like many developing countries have....what do we do then? Now is the right time to work it out how to deal with declining populations not when it becomes obvious that immigration is not a sustainable answer. There are undoubtedly tough questions ahead but the sooner we face them the less we hit a brick wall in the future
“We need to learn to live with a falling population”. Think that one through with regard to state pensions.
Yes I do and its not going to be easy but its also true....everywhere in the world is going to have this same problem because round the world birth rates are below replacement rates except africa.....don't you think now is the right time to think about how we cope rather than when it becomes a fucking emergency situation?
Erm, no I think one helpful solution to a falling population is millions wanting to immigrate here….
Do you think the population can or should go on increasing forever?
It depends by how much. Britain's land mass is small, and its verdant landscape needs to be protected, but on the other hand areas of even cities like London are still low density , by European standards. Large areas of Scotland and Wales are even lower density.
Think if we made cities like London and Manchester ultra high rise we could fit 200 million in the UK easily. London could expand to a population or around 40 million if we replaced a lot of the low rise development in the centre with huge tower blocks.
This would be a nightmare for some people, but if all the historic neighbourhoods were protected, I personally would have no problem with an ultra-green future of cities like London, Manchester and Glasgow adding tens of millions in sustainable high-rises covered in plants , as some architects fondly project, providing the balance between integration and multiculturalism was handled correctly, probably Canadian-style.
At least part of the Brexiters' community might even get used to the idea too, once they realised it would make Britain the major demographic, and probably even cultural, power in Europe, in time. Despite all this, I hasten to add that I'm not at all a fan of green-field or suburbanising development. Keep as much of the little green space we have as possible, for our spiritual health as much as anything else.
If we think the UK can fit 200 million, we are going to have to agree where the food to support that 200 million is going to be grown, and how we are going to pay to import it when 50 million+ of the 200 million are retired.
Above replacement immigration definitely is a Ponzi scheme in the same way that needing an above replacement birth rate is a Ponzi scheme. It isn't necessarily a bad thing for the people half way up the pyramid but it cannot go on forever.
We are going to have to work out a way to deal with our demographic problems eventually, and if we can't do it with productivity, that is eventually going to leave only apparently unthinkable options.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Iran foreign ministry todau condemned #France regime brutality against the peaceful protestors The UN security council should intervene to stop #Macron from genocide against civilians #france #MacronDemission #MacronDegage #Russia #ukraine
Tensions between us and iran seem to be rising strongly now.
U.S. and Iranian/Militia Forces in the Deir ez-Zur Region have reportedly been exchanging Rocket and Missiles Fire between each other for the last few hours; Coalition Aircraft have also been attempting to Strike the Iranian Launch Sites.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
He would have to if He didn't exist; it's core to the Tory Party programme, like Royalty and screwing the workers to preserive Home Counties houseowners' legacies free of IHT.
No establishment of the Church of England is core to Toryism, along with support for the monarchy and inheritance, technically you can be an atheist and still support that as you prefer the C of E to the RCs or evangelicals
I see dissatisfaction with parliamentary bodies, as opposed to individuals, persists even with a war bounce - not much love for the Ukrainian Parliament.
Speaking to some sources in Syria, the attack tonight on the US base is devastating by the sounds of it. High possibility of numerous American casualties…
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
He would have to if He didn't exist; it's core to the Tory Party programme, like Royalty and screwing the workers to preserive Home Counties houseowners' legacies free of IHT.
No establishment of the Church of England is core to Toryism, along with support for the monarchy and inheritance, technically you can be an atheist and still support that as you prefer the C of E to the RCs or evangelicals
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
He would have to if He didn't exist; it's core to the Tory Party programme, like Royalty and screwing the workers to preserive Home Counties houseowners' legacies free of IHT.
No establishment of the Church of England is core to Toryism, along with support for the monarchy and inheritance, technically you can be an atheist and still support that as you prefer the C of E to the RCs or evangelicals
It isn't to mine and many other conservatives
You aren't a Tory, more ideologically New Labour to One Nation Conservative swing voter
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not. Even excluding UK Buddhists who believe Buddha was an 'extraordinary being' not a God.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Buddha is a Buddha. Not an extraordinary being. Gods are much, much lower beings than Buddhas. At least in the Mahayana. All beings, including current Gods will eventually become Buddhas. And yes. That means you, me your dog and your woodlice.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
He would have to if He didn't exist; it's core to the Tory Party programme, like Royalty and screwing the workers to preserive Home Counties houseowners' legacies free of IHT.
No establishment of the Church of England is core to Toryism, along with support for the monarchy and inheritance, technically you can be an atheist and still support that as you prefer the C of E to the RCs or evangelicals
It isn't to mine and many other conservatives
You aren't a Tory, more ideologically New Labour to One Nation Conservative swing voter
Thankfully I am not a right wing Little Englander conservative who votes Plaid on occasions
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not. Even excluding UK Buddhists who believe Buddha was an 'extraordinary being' not a God.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Most self identified Sikh I know don't believe in God. Popping down to the gurdwara is a social occasion - 10 minutes in the prayer hall and 50 minutes for food and a chat. Saying that they are Sikh is a cultural identity, not a sign of faith.
Err no albanians have no business here full stop. Be fucking less open and stop telling poor people they have to share meagre services between more and more people who aren't paying a single shekel
“Albanians have no business here at all”? What, any of them? Oh, ok. You’re just an old school racist and I can ignore you.
Its not a racist thing....they aren't refugees, albania isnt at civil war last I heard....why are they therefore arriving on boats claiming to be refugees. Albanians can apply for normal migrant status which is I believe you need a job paying a mere 26k a year. They have no business being on boats
That was rather the point of my first post, that you were replying to. I’d get rid of all those barriers… we should want these folk.
With migrants we should want net contributors.....what we dont need is minimum wage migrants. They don't add to net revenue all they do is supress wages. Have a job where you are a net gain come by all means....have a job where you aren't and sorry most minimum wage jobs aren't then all you are doing is providing an unlimited labour pool to keep those jobs min wage
And yet right now we can't get enough people from inside this country to do all those minimum wage jobs - the sorts of jobs that are vital to the running of our society but which no one seems to want to do. If you don't import that labour, how do you fill those vacancies in an aging population?
Immigration is a ponzi scheme...we need to learn how to live with a falling population. Africa is more or less the only place in the world with an above replacement birthrate....I suspect eventually it will catch up and have a falling rate too just like many developing countries have....what do we do then? Now is the right time to work it out how to deal with declining populations not when it becomes obvious that immigration is not a sustainable answer. There are undoubtedly tough questions ahead but the sooner we face them the less we hit a brick wall in the future
“We need to learn to live with a falling population”. Think that one through with regard to state pensions.
Yes I do and its not going to be easy but its also true....everywhere in the world is going to have this same problem because round the world birth rates are below replacement rates except africa.....don't you think now is the right time to think about how we cope rather than when it becomes a fucking emergency situation?
Erm, no I think one helpful solution to a falling population is millions wanting to immigrate here….
Do you think the population can or should go on increasing forever?
It depends by how much. Britain's land mass is small, and its verdant landscape needs to be protected, but on the other hand areas of even cities like London are still low density , by European standards. Large areas of Scotland and Wales are even lower density.
Think if we made cities like London and Manchester ultra high rise we could fit 200 million in the UK easily. London could expand to a population or around 40 million if we replaced a lot of the low rise development in the centre with huge tower blocks.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not. Even excluding UK Buddhists who believe Buddha was an 'extraordinary being' not a God.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Buddha is a Buddha. Not an extraordinary being. Gods are much, much lower beings than Buddhas. At least in the Mahayana. All beings, including current Gods will eventually become Buddhas. And yes. That means you, me your dog and your woodlice.
On immigration, can I just take two minutes to voice this unpopular and seldom said opinion?
If someone has the balls and the drive to find their way out of a country in an unstable region, and run the gauntlet of people smugglers, get across the channel in weather P&O wouldn’t dream of sailing in, all whilst not knowing if they will ever see their family again, all for a dream of living in the U.K.; I want them here.
That’s exactly who we need. I’d want to actively compete for them except we don’t need to - they choose us even though we are horrible to them.
Ah yes just want we want, people who associate with criminals and are happy to break the law....who could want anyone better?
Thank you for demonstrating my point.
Given a lot of them 40 odd percent are albanian are gangsters being brought in for country lines and a good percentage of the others are victims of people traffickers then yes sorry fuck off they aren't an advantage to the country they are a pustulent sore that needs lancing
Try some criticial thinking one day, you might enjoy it. You have cause and effect the wrong way around. Precisely because they are driven into the hands of criminals, they are at risk of incurring a “debt” and being drawn in. Be more open and we get them first.
You might wish to try a little of that critical thinking yourself. Intemperate though Pagan's language is, the point he raises is a valid one. You need to ask yourself why someone from Albania would want to pay £500 to a trafficker to undertake a risky sea voyage in a leaky dinghy, when there are cheap flights from Tirana to whichever UK airport takes their fancy. The only logical answer I can think of is that they do not wish their passport to be checked and their image be registered on a database - but I am open to alternative explanations.
Because we wouldn’t let them in to stay…. sort of my point.
So we wouldn't let them stay because they aren't refugees? That is a reason to defend them for crossing in boats.....really do fuck off
Did you not read anything I wrote? My whole point is I want economic migrants. So should we all.
We have enough crooks and wrong uns already though , sounds like you would take any old dross.
I think it’s self selecting. Lazy gits are lazy and don’t come. The ones who come got off their arse.
we still need to have selection, system is crap but no person arriving in a dinghy should be allowed to stay. Fix the system.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
On immigration, can I just take two minutes to voice this unpopular and seldom said opinion?
If someone has the balls and the drive to find their way out of a country in an unstable region, and run the gauntlet of people smugglers, get across the channel in weather P&O wouldn’t dream of sailing in, all whilst not knowing if they will ever see their family again, all for a dream of living in the U.K.; I want them here.
That’s exactly who we need. I’d want to actively compete for them except we don’t need to - they choose us even though we are horrible to them.
Ah yes just want we want, people who associate with criminals and are happy to break the law....who could want anyone better?
Thank you for demonstrating my point.
Given a lot of them 40 odd percent are albanian are gangsters being brought in for country lines and a good percentage of the others are victims of people traffickers then yes sorry fuck off they aren't an advantage to the country they are a pustulent sore that needs lancing
Try some criticial thinking one day, you might enjoy it. You have cause and effect the wrong way around. Precisely because they are driven into the hands of criminals, they are at risk of incurring a “debt” and being drawn in. Be more open and we get them first.
You might wish to try a little of that critical thinking yourself. Intemperate though Pagan's language is, the point he raises is a valid one. You need to ask yourself why someone from Albania would want to pay £500 to a trafficker to undertake a risky sea voyage in a leaky dinghy, when there are cheap flights from Tirana to whichever UK airport takes their fancy. The only logical answer I can think of is that they do not wish their passport to be checked and their image be registered on a database - but I am open to alternative explanations.
Because we wouldn’t let them in to stay…. sort of my point.
So we wouldn't let them stay because they aren't refugees? That is a reason to defend them for crossing in boats.....really do fuck off
Did you not read anything I wrote? My whole point is I want economic migrants. So should we all.
We have enough crooks and wrong uns already though , sounds like you would take any old dross.
I think it’s self selecting. Lazy gits are lazy and don’t come. The ones who come got off their arse.
we still need to have selection, system is crap but no person arrivi
So, to get back to the topic, for just a moment, when will the SNP leadership results be announced? (Roughly is good enough for me, since I don't have a bet on the outcome.)
About 2pm on Monday. UK time.
What time is that on Scotland time? Which I assume is something Ash Regan has proposed.
Still 2pm, but 5 years ago, so that the ferries will be delivered on time!
Will they ever b edelivered. Certainly will be the most expensive ferries in the world by a huge margin.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
No, as the King will be Supreme Governor of the Church of England. He will also be defender of faith as well as the faith with Imams, Rabbis and Hindu leaders as well as other Christian Ministers in attendance at the Coronation, not just the
Archbishop of Canterbury.
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
Seems a real stretch. How many of these people even attend church/synagogue/mosque regularly?
We are not a religious country, at all.
Add in the 3% who are Hindu or Sikh and that is 56% of the UK population who still do God or Gods whether they attend places of worship regularly or not. Even excluding UK Buddhists who believe Buddha was an 'extraordinary being' not a God.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
Most self identified Sikh I know don't believe in God. Popping down to the gurdwara is a social occasion - 10 minutes in the prayer hall and 50 minutes for food and a chat. Saying that they are Sikh is a cultural identity, not a sign of faith.
Sikhs are 0.5% of the UK population, there is a Christian and Muslim majority in the UK even excluding cultural Sikhs, Hindus and Jews
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
One thing to consider is if the vote were held today (as a hypothetical were it had not already happened) would more Tory MPs vote against than for it, as was the case then? It's only a guess, obviously, but I suspect the answer would be a clear no.
Whatever those who voted against may have felt (I recall a few of the old 'there are more important issues' dodges, and at least one 'I'll vote against but I recognise a majority of the country is probably in favour", and the old nonsense favourite about how the state cannot define marriage - despite a history of doing so), it's embedded now, many politicians who once opposed it that are still around would likely see it as a fundamental test of acceptability to be in favour. So their shame or lack thereof thankfully doesn't matter.
4 LD votes against I see from wiki, which I did not remember.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
Religious people are just like anyone else - they are fantastic at cherry picking information and rules that they like and ignoring the bits they do not. The only surprise is that there are not even more splinter groups than there already is (a lot), since many will stay in but just quietly ignore the bits they don't agree with.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Putting to one side the number of people who aren't remotely religious but tick the christian box for cultural reasons, the reality is that even the number who do tick the christian box is falling so rapidly that within a generation it will be unarguable that it is a small minority.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
Putting to one side the number of people who aren't remotely religious but tick the christian box for cultural reasons, the reality is that even the number who do tick the christian box is falling so rapidly that within a generation it will be unarguable that it is a small minority.
That depends, immigrants are more religious than native white British and immigrants also have more children than native white British per head
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
On immigration, can I just take two minutes to voice this unpopular and seldom said opinion?
If someone has the balls and the drive to find their way out of a country in an unstable region, and run the gauntlet of people smugglers, get across the channel in weather P&O wouldn’t dream of sailing in, all whilst not knowing if they will ever see their family again, all for a dream of living in the U.K.; I want them here.
That’s exactly who we need. I’d want to actively compete for them except we don’t need to - they choose us even though we are horrible to them.
Ah yes just want we want, people who associate with criminals and are happy to break the law....who could want anyone better?
Thank you for demonstrating my point.
Given a lot of them 40 odd percent are albanian are gangsters being brought in for country lines and a good percentage of the others are victims of people traffickers then yes sorry fuck off they aren't an advantage to the country they are a pustulent sore that needs lancing
Try some criticial thinking one day, you might enjoy it. You have cause and effect the wrong way around. Precisely because they are driven into the hands of criminals, they are at risk of incurring a “debt” and being drawn in. Be more open and we get them first.
You might wish to try a little of that critical thinking yourself. Intemperate though Pagan's language is, the point he raises is a valid one. You need to ask yourself why someone from Albania would want to pay £500 to a trafficker to undertake a risky sea voyage in a leaky dinghy, when there are cheap flights from Tirana to whichever UK airport takes their fancy. The only logical answer I can think of is that they do not wish their passport to be checked and their image be registered on a database - but I am open to alternative explanations.
Because we wouldn’t let them in to stay…. sort of my point.
So we wouldn't let them stay because they aren't refugees? That is a reason to defend them for crossing in boats.....really do fuck off
Did you not read anything I wrote? My whole point is I want economic migrants. So should we all.
We have enough crooks and wrong uns already though , sounds like you would take any old dross.
I think it’s self selecting. Lazy gits are lazy and don’t come. The ones who come got off their arse.
we still need to have selection, system is crap but no person arrivi
So, to get back to the topic, for just a moment, when will the SNP leadership results be announced? (Roughly is good enough for me, since I don't have a bet on the outcome.)
About 2pm on Monday. UK time.
What time is that on Scotland time? Which I assume is something Ash Regan has proposed.
Still 2pm, but 5 years ago, so that the ferries will be delivered on time!
Will they ever b edelivered. Certainly will be the most expensive ferries in the world by a huge margin.
Judging by reports the shipyard is in all kinds of financial trouble despite being owned by ScotGov. This is going to go on and on, and continue to be a big problem for whoever becomes FM.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Why should the royal family cater to the aggressive secular minority like you when according to the latest census the irreligious still represent just 37% of the UK population? That is even less than the 46% who are still Christian.
If and when the irreligious are a majority of the UK population you may have a case, you don't now
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
Having the Coronation as a religious Church of England event when LESS THAN 1% of the population attend the Church of England is beyond farcical...
No, it's just traditional - and it's not solely a religious ceremony anyway.
Farcical is bishops (and HYUFD) thinking it will convert people.
The target is agnostic monarchists as I said, a few of them may well be converted
To republicanism ?
Showing my ignorance perhaps, but I didn’t realise the coronation would be a religious thing
Why? Can we just not do God?
To be fair, barely anyone can remember the last one.
A lot has changed in 70 years, and some of it will seem very absurd and archaic.
It's supposed to be surely? Sometimes people make a big deal about various aspects of ceremony being 'invented' in the 19th century like this is some killer point, but such ceremonies taking place, with some core elements which over time people add to or go back to what they think happened so it looks appropriately old and 'regal' is as old as monarchy. It has, in fact, changed quite a bit, even as the general shape of things is still fairly recognizable.
Any ceremony today will have tweaks and inclusions which make it a 'modern' take on how it should be done, even as it also contains lots of stuff hearkening back to previous ones - so it will be both archaic and modern in its details.
I'm always baffled by the idea monarchy should be entirely free of theatrical absurdities. Ok, they do not want and the system does not want to be outright laughed at as that would indeed be undermining, but remove 'traditional' elements and style and what's even the point? It's supposed to be about linking with the past, otherwise we may as well just go for Presidents - and even they often have archaic ceremonies with some silliness.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
A lot of the coronation will seem absurd and out of touch
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
I always think people who dont like gays hide their bigotry under the auspices of "gays are ok but gay marriage is a step too far." We see you.
Putting to one side the number of people who aren't remotely religious but tick the christian box for cultural reasons, the reality is that even the number who do tick the christian box is falling so rapidly that within a generation it will be unarguable that it is a small minority.
That depends, immigrants are more religious than native white British and immigrants also have more children than native white British per head
Look at the numbers - the Christian box is down massively between 2011 and 2021 despite immigration.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
Though the Royals are all trapped in the spiders web. Even Harry, when writing of its rituals, snide Court politics, and psychological destructiveness isn't against it as an institution. In many ways the heir is more trapped than the spare, as he cannot escape.
Since the King is the Head of the Church of England, and the coronation is a religious service held in Westminster Abbey overseen by the Archbishop of Canterbury, being surprised that it's a Christian ceremony is about as much of a shock to me as learning the true meaning of Christmas.
Maybe, but if you don’t follow the royals and their weird protocols then why would you know?
I guess most people think church-and-state is, well, a bit odd…
The references to Zadok the Priest and Nathan the Prophet are a big of a give away
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
Matthew 19:1-6
'When Jesus had finished talking, He went from the country of Galilee. He came to the part of the country of Judea which is on the other side of the Jordan River. 2 Many people followed Him and He healed them there.
3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
Though the Royals are all trapped in the spiders web. Even Harry, when writing of its rituals, snide Court politics, and psychological destructiveness isn't against it as an institution. In many ways the heir is more trapped than the spare, as he cannot escape.
I would not be surprised to see Harry come out against the institution in the next few years. Most of what he says would seem to lead to that conclusion, and he is going to have find something to occupy his time and there's only so many times people will green light another series or book from him about it without fresh takes.
Another reason to abolish the coronation, it's going to be hijacked.
The Church of England plans to use the King’s coronation ceremony as a “unique opportunity” to convert people to Christianity and has released prayers asking God to “pour abundant gifts” on the new monarch.
The Archbishops of Canterbury and York, the Most Revs Justin Welby and Stephen Cottrell, have described the coronation as a “unique missional opportunity” to showcase “rich Christian symbols and values” to a global audience, hoping that it will help people to “encounter Jesus”.
The church has also released an information pack with details for 28 days of prayer between Easter day on April 9 and coronation day on May 6 so the nation can engage in “spiritual preparation alongside the King”.
Good to see that the C of E tradition for housing otherworldly eccentrics still flourishes.
I’m interested (as an atheist) as to how the Head Shed of a religion using a religious ceremony, in his number one venue, for recruitment is “hijacking”.
Isn’t that his job?
I'm more interested in how he thinks the coronation might convert anyone at all.
It really is a very odd idea.
Yes - "I was against the concept of thr monarchy, but the sheer magnificence of the ceremony won me over" - hard to imagine that's going to be a massive group.
It isn't trying to convert republicans to monarchists, the focus is more on converting agnostic monarchists to Christian monarchists from the Church of England's point of view (and Welby is on the evangelical wing of the Church of England after all).
Given about 2/3 of the UK population are monarchists still but only 47% of the UK population are now Christians that is nearly 20% of the UK population for the Church of England to target and only a minority of them will be from other faiths or confirmed atheists
6% say they are actually practising.
Less than 1% attend Church on a typical week.
47% ticked a box.
5% attend a Christian church every week, whether Anglican, Roman Catholic or non Anglican evangelical. Roman Catholics have the highest attendance rate and Pentecostals the highest attendance growth.
Though more go once you include those who go only for Christmas, Easter or Mothering Sunday, weddings, baptisms and funerals
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
I understand bigotry when I see it
You clearly don't understand the Bible
I most certainly do and my interpretation of Christ is the polar opposite of your bigotry
And by the way I was confirmed into the COE at 13, was a server and served with the Bishop of Durham at a confirmation service at Berwick
I would add I knew all the communion service inside out, the prayers, the blessings, and the hymns, often being at early morning communion services with just a handful of parisoners
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
Matthew 19:1-6
'When Jesus had finished talking, He went from the country of Galilee. He came to the part of the country of Judea which is on the other side of the Jordan River. 2 Many people followed Him and He healed them there.
3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
I always think people who dont like gays hide their bigotry under the auspices of "gays are ok but gay marriage is a step too far." We see you.
I think people can genuinely believe they are not hateful by taking the seemingly official line 'Being gay is not a sin, but doing gay things is a sin'. But it's so ridiculous and I see no reason people should get a pass for that belief just because it is a religious belief.
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
Some people do become religious as adults, or become more serious in their faith as adults. Did she? Who the hell knows, but like you I'd be very skeptical.
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
She’s probably another of those C of E statistics that don’t believe in God
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
I always think people who dont like gays hide their bigotry under the auspices of "gays are ok but gay marriage is a step too far." We see you.
I think people can genuinely believe they are not hateful by taking the seemingly official line 'Being gay is not a sin, but doing gay things is a sin'. But it's so ridiculous and I see no reason people should get a pass for that belief just because it is a religious belief.
Technically Jesus didn't even say anything about gay sex being a sin, he did though make clear marriage should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions for the creation of children
The royal family needs to be careful not to degenerate into total absurdity.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
Though the Royals are all trapped in the spiders web. Even Harry, when writing of its rituals, snide Court politics, and psychological destructiveness isn't against it as an institution. In many ways the heir is more trapped than the spare, as he cannot escape.
I suspect there are only two reasons Harry isn’t against the institution:
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
I understand bigotry when I see it
You clearly don't understand the Bible
Careful though. There's that story of Evelyn Waugh, Randolph Churchill and the Bible.
In the late stages of the Second World War, Evelyn Waugh was trapped in Europe in the company of Randolph Churchill, the boorish son of the wartime prime minister. "In the hope of keeping him quiet," he wrote to Nancy Mitford, "Freddie and I bet him £20 that he cannot read the whole Bible in a fortnight. Unhappily it has not had the result we hoped. He has never read any of it before and is hideously excited; keeps reading quotations aloud... or merely slapping his side & chortling 'God, isn't God a shit!'
It's pretty easy to read the Bible and get an image of God as a shitty, tribal bigot. Indeed, it takes effort (however worthwhile) to do otherwise.
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Because its about love and 2 people who love each other being allowed to marry. As far as im concerned those tory mps who voted against gay marriage chose hate over love.
No, legally it isn't. Legally civil partnerships gave homosexual couples all the rights heterosexual married couples have. Just for religious reasons many MPs may have felt that marriage is a religious term and should be reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions as most religions still teach.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
You say your are a Christian but I do not see much evidence of Christ's teachings in your narrow minded views
Matthew 19:1-6
'When Jesus had finished talking, He went from the country of Galilee. He came to the part of the country of Judea which is on the other side of the Jordan River. 2 Many people followed Him and He healed them there.
3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”
Does that bit not apply to the King then?
It does, 8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
Hence Rowan Williams refused to remarry Charles and Camilla in church.
They had a civil registry service in Windsor instead, followed by a blessing by the Archbishop of Canterbury in the chapel
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
I understand bigotry when I see it
You clearly don't understand the Bible
I most certainly do and my interpretation of Christ is the polar opposite of your bigotry
And by the way I was confirmed into the COE at 13, was a server and served with the Bishop of Durham at a confirmation service at Berwick
I would add I knew all the communion service inside out, the prayers, the blessings, and the hymns, often being at early morning communion services with just a handful of parisoners
Maybe more qualified than you on the subject
Coming at this as an outsider, I do think it fair to point out that the key word there would be 'interpretation'.
People use the same bible to beleive some wildly different things. For a long time most churchmen had no issue in saying the teachings of Christ did not conflict with slavery, yet would any of them think that interpretation makes sense today?
I wonder how many people are pro-religion in general while not being religious personally.
Many millions
I'm one of them. I like religion (except extreme forms) without being religious myself. The only problem, I suppose, is you could say it's a bit hypocritical, like someone who was in favour of the UK being at war with Germany in the Second World War but didn't actually want to do any fighting themselves.
"However, based on current forecasts, we expect that by July prices should fall below the typical £2,500 Energy Price Guarantee level — and we’ll pass these reductions on as soon as it’s possible."
We saw just how key the Church of England was to many Conservatives when it opposed Gay Marriage and supposedly religious Conservatives (eg David Cameron) completely ignored it and voted for Gay Marriage anyway.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
More Conservative MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, of course the Church of England has now voted to bless homosexual couples anyway.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Those tory mps who voted against gay marriage should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? They are/were MPs for a conservative party not a socially liberal party, if they wished to vote for a more socially conservative position they were entitled to do so. On Monday we may even have a leader of the SNP who opposes homosexual marriage
Seems like you admire Kate Forbes views, but this conservative utterly rejects the COE and anyone else who opposes gay marriage In any form
Only because you don't understand the theology. Personally I don't even have a problem with marriage in civil law but blessings of homosexual couples is a reasonable compromise for the C of E, in the Bible and Koran it is clear marriage is reserved for heterosexual couples in lifelong unions to create children
I understand bigotry when I see it
You clearly don't understand the Bible
I most certainly do and my interpretation of Christ is the polar opposite of your bigotry
And by the way I was confirmed into the COE at 13, was a server and served with the Bishop of Durham at a confirmation service at Berwick
I would add I knew all the communion service inside out, the prayers, the blessings, and the hymns, often being at early morning communion services with just a handful of parisoners
Maybe more qualified than you on the subject
Coming at this as an outsider, I do think it fair to point out that the key word there would be 'interpretation'.
People use the same bible to beleive some wildly different things. For a long time most churchmen had no issue in saying the teachings of Christ did not conflict with slavery, yet would any of them think that interpretation makes sense today?
It is true that some spend years dissecting and studying the Bible, but ultimately Christ represented love and compassion and not the narrow minded views of some as seen in this discussion
Comments
Not going to win an election. But a certain amount of Getting Things Done.
Why? Can we just not do God?
Most of the UK population still do God. Even on the last census 53% of the population in the UK are Christian, Muslim or Jewish ie all of them believe in the God of Abraham
I guess most people think church-and-state is, well, a bit odd…
And it’s at the Abbey, so that kinda follows too.
Remember, before @HYUFD tells you, it’s bishops who run the show, anointing with holy chrism, and all by the grace of God etc.
I'm an atheist, so religious events tend to make me snooze off, but then important civic occasions usually do anyway.
We are not a religious country, at all.
Yes, it is too much to ask
In fairness, I’ll be down the pub and paying zero attention probably.
So I’m not their target audience.
Only 37% said they were irreligious on the 2021 census and don't do God, little more than a third of the UK population
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021
Above replacement immigration definitely is a Ponzi scheme in the same way that needing an above replacement birth rate is a Ponzi scheme. It isn't necessarily a bad thing for the people half way up the pyramid but it cannot go on forever.
We are going to have to work out a way to deal with our demographic problems eventually, and if we can't do it with productivity, that is eventually going to leave only apparently unthinkable options.
The late Dave Allen always closed his shows with these words
'May your God go with you '
No dogma - just nice words
https://www.pcnbritain.org.uk/blog/post/may-your-god-go-with-you
Iran foreign ministry todau condemned #France regime brutality against the peaceful protestors The UN security council should intervene to stop #Macron from genocide against civilians #france #MacronDemission #MacronDegage #Russia #ukraine
https://twitter.com/Zakaria_Z_Army/status/1639382216198201345?s=20
U.S. and Iranian/Militia Forces in the Deir ez-Zur Region have reportedly been exchanging Rocket and Missiles Fire between each other for the last few hours; Coalition Aircraft have also been attempting to Strike the Iranian Launch Sites.
8:57 PM · Mar 24, 2023
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https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1639370756747403265?s=20
@ChristopherJM
New @IRIglobal
/@RatingGroup
poll:
-91% of Ukrainians approve of Zelensky's performance
-97% believe they'll win the war
-Ukrainians remain overwhelmingly positive about the future despite Russia's ongoing war
-82% would vote for Ukraine to be part of NATO (another increase)
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1638565780844363776
Speaking to some sources in Syria, the attack tonight on the US base is devastating by the sounds of it. High possibility of numerous American casualties…
9:28 PM · Mar 24, 2023
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https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1639378557058129920?s=20
All beings, including current Gods will eventually become Buddhas.
And yes. That means you, me your dog and your woodlice.
Even people who "pretend" to be religious wouldn't dream of letting it get in the way of what was obviously right.
The key to Toryism on religion is the C of E being the established church NOT support or opposition to homosexual marriage
Whatever those who voted against may have felt (I recall a few of the old 'there are more important issues' dodges, and at least one 'I'll vote against but I recognise a majority of the country is probably in favour", and the old nonsense favourite about how the state cannot define marriage - despite a history of doing so), it's embedded now, many politicians who once opposed it that are still around would likely see it as a fundamental test of acceptability to be in favour. So their shame or lack thereof thankfully doesn't matter.
4 LD votes against I see from wiki, which I did not remember.
Those MPs who voted to still criminalise homosexuality in the 1960s may have been voting for hate, those MPs voting against homosexual marriage were not
In any form
A lot has changed in 70 years, and some of it will seem very absurd and archaic.
William saw how ridiculous he looked in the Caribbean a few years ago. He will remember that - and I suspect he will dial down a lot of the religious stuff at his own coronation.
Add to that the fact that Kate got confirmed aged 29 just before she married William. I mean how many people get confirmed aged 29?
It's an insult to everyone's intelligence to think that she suddenly became religious aged 29.
If and when the irreligious are a majority of the UK population you may have a case, you don't now
Any ceremony today will have tweaks and inclusions which make it a 'modern' take on how it should be done, even as it also contains lots of stuff hearkening back to previous ones - so it will be both archaic and modern in its details.
I'm always baffled by the idea monarchy should be entirely free of theatrical absurdities. Ok, they do not want and the system does not want to be outright laughed at as that would indeed be undermining, but remove 'traditional' elements and style and what's even the point? It's supposed to be about linking with the past, otherwise we may as well just go for Presidents - and even they often have archaic ceremonies with some silliness.
Immigration will not offset the collapse.
It's dying - and dying rapidly - and you know it.
Amazing that she fell for that old trick.
'When Jesus had finished talking, He went from the country of Galilee. He came to the part of the country of Judea which is on the other side of the Jordan River. 2 Many people followed Him and He healed them there.
3 The proud religious law-keepers came to Jesus. They tried to trap Him by saying, “Does the Law say a man can divorce his wife for any reason?” 4 He said to them, “Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? 5 It says, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will live with his wife. The two will become one.’ 6 So they are no longer two but one. Let no man divide what God has put together.”
I really cannot conceive of a God who is like some Home Office Bureaucrat obsessed with whether someone's paperwork is in order.
And by the way I was confirmed into the COE at 13, was a server and served with the Bishop of Durham at a confirmation service at Berwick
I would add I knew all the communion service inside out, the prayers, the blessings, and the hymns, often being at early morning communion services with just a handful of parisoners
Maybe more qualified than you on the subject
1) Residual humanity and care for his Dad; and
2) He makes good money from it.
In the late stages of the Second World War, Evelyn Waugh was trapped in Europe in the company of Randolph Churchill, the boorish son of the wartime prime minister. "In the hope of keeping him quiet," he wrote to Nancy Mitford, "Freddie and I bet him £20 that he cannot read the whole Bible in a fortnight. Unhappily it has not had the result we hoped. He has never read any of it before and is hideously excited; keeps reading quotations aloud... or merely slapping his side & chortling
'God, isn't God a shit!'
It's pretty easy to read the Bible and get an image of God as a shitty, tribal bigot. Indeed, it takes effort (however worthwhile) to do otherwise.
Hence Rowan Williams refused to remarry Charles and Camilla in church.
They had a civil registry service in Windsor instead, followed by a blessing by the Archbishop of Canterbury in the chapel
People use the same bible to beleive some wildly different things. For a long time most churchmen had no issue in saying the teachings of Christ did not conflict with slavery, yet would any of them think that interpretation makes sense today?
"However, based on current forecasts, we expect that by July prices should fall below the typical £2,500 Energy Price Guarantee level — and we’ll pass these reductions on as soon as it’s possible."