Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Super Tuesday – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 2023 in General
Super Tuesday – politicalbetting.com

Most likely Trump's attorneys were told by the Manhattan DA's office that an indictment would likely issue early next week and that he would need to surrender on Tuesday and appear in court.That would not be an "arrest" but Trump is trying to dramatize this for his supporters. https://t.co/DN4bYLhkCM

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: splendid qualifying and an intriguing grid for the race. Will peruse markets etc shortly.
  • gonatasgonatas Posts: 12
    Will we see a Donald Trump Avenue in Teheran?
    And will he then try to build a hotel on it?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: pre-race ramble. Just hedge the Perez win bet, and wait for money.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/03/saudi-arabia-pre-race-2023.html
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019
    Probably makes it easier to become Rep nominee but also to lose the general.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    They shouldn’t indict him, they should charge him.

    But I suppose you need a conviction before doing that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    F1: pre-race ramble. Just hedge the Perez win bet, and wait for money.

    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2023/03/saudi-arabia-pre-race-2023.html

    Hats off to Mr Stroll. Not only has he pulled together a team that his given him a very decent car, but signing Alonso looks an absolute masterstroke.

    Even only two races in all the lovely free publicity, positive headlines and exciting performances must have justified it ten times over.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,767
    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I don’t think anyone ever sang “are you hungry” at Donald Trump!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912
    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I can see Trump doing a dirty protest but a hunger strike doesn't seem like his style.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I don’t think anyone ever sang “are you hungry” at Donald Trump!
    "Can you go a chicken supper Donald Trump..."
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I can see Trump doing a dirty protest but a hunger strike doesn't seem like his style.
    An exposure protest? Unlikely. We’d all point and laugh.
  • Not sure how I just posted on a four day old thread..

    Golf courses are like parks designed by deranged drunks

    Great for early morning dog walks though


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,767

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I don’t think anyone ever sang “are you hungry” at Donald Trump!
    "Can you go a chicken supper Donald Trump..."
    Thank you - couldn’t remember the song!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited March 2023
    "... he could be the American Bobby Sands."

    I'm not sure I can think of anyone less likely to starve himself to death. Maybe Boris Johnson.

    (Edit. Sorry for the repetition. I suppose it was pretty obvious.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited March 2023
    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    It's a near perfect analogy.

    Both are members of parties that backed armed insurrection/terrorism over democracy, and potentially Trump could also win an election from prison.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    It's a near perfect analogy.

    Both are members of parties that backed armed insurrection/terrorism over democracy, and potentially Trump could also win an election from prison.
    Could Trump die in prison? That would do nicely.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 583
    If Trump goes to prison (unlikely as that is) does he still qualify for a secret service protection detail??
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    When the indictment is made public we will all be able to judge whether we think it is reasonable or politically motivated.

    I would be surprised if he hadn't done something indictable - after all he incited violence in an attempt to steal the Presidency - but is there the evidence to make that stick in a court of law?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Penddu2 said:

    If Trump goes to prison (unlikely as that is) does he still qualify for a secret service protection detail??

    Nixon renounced his, if that's any parallel.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    When the indictment is made public we will all be able to judge whether we think it is reasonable or politically motivated.

    I would be surprised if he hadn't done something indictable - after all he incited violence in an attempt to steal the Presidency - but is there the evidence to make that stick in a court of law?
    It will be like Al Capone. All the mad shit he does and the violence and criminal behaviour, and he'll finally be done for filling in the wrong tax form as that's the only thing they can prove.
  • Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    When the indictment is made public we will all be able to judge whether we think it is reasonable or politically motivated.

    I would be surprised if he hadn't done something indictable - after all he incited violence in an attempt to steal the Presidency - but is there the evidence to make that stick in a court of law?
    It will be like Al Capone. All the mad shit he does and the violence and criminal behaviour, and he'll finally be done for filling in the wrong tax form as that's the only thing they can prove.
    Perhaps. That then gets a bit close to the first position in RCS's post. They wouldn't have looked at his tax affairs half as closely if he hadn't incited the storming of Congress. How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: while I've chickened out/sensibly avoided a new bet for the race, it is very interestingly set up.

    My suspicion overall is that, unless Alonso can pass Perez immediately, the Red Bull's innate pace advantage should be sufficient for the Mexican to probably win. But, it may be less reliable than the Aston Martin. And we've got the Leclerc and Verstappen duo who will be charging through the midfield and able to make use of a contrary strategy should safety car woe emerge. On top of that, I suspect Stroll will end up ahead of Sainz and Russell. Sainz in particular, because he was unusually ropey in qualifying and I'm moderately surprised he even managed to end up 4th.

    Spare a thought for Logan Sargeant. Should've easily been through to Q2 but got the time deleted for exceeding a white line limit and was unable to get his head together. He needs to sort that out pronto. Only his second race but the ability to stay cool is critical.

    Anyway, having had the Perez pole bet come off, and backed him at 7 to win (each way) hedged at 2.47 (shorter last I checked) makes the race weekend looking both exciting, and green.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited March 2023
    pigeon said:

    How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?

    Me for starters. I've led a banal existence. Haven't incited even a single attempt to overthrow the Government.
    What was it that the Regent Law School Professor said in his lecture on the right to silence?

    'There is no man on earth, there is no woman in this country who can honestly say with complete confidence "I have never violated any provision of the Internal Revenue Code".'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Pigeon, ironic given your reputation for constantly cooing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088

    Mr. Pigeon, ironic given your reputation for constantly cooing.

    Tumbleweeds...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,587
    edited March 2023
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    When the indictment is made public we will all be able to judge whether we think it is reasonable or politically motivated.

    I would be surprised if he hadn't done something indictable - after all he incited violence in an attempt to steal the Presidency - but is there the evidence to make that stick in a court of law?
    It will be like Al Capone. All the mad shit he does and the violence and criminal behaviour, and he'll finally be done for filling in the wrong tax form as that's the only thing they can prove.
    A fair point. Nonetheless there would appear to be industrial scale errors on his IRS forms which might be a big deal.

    I would have thought the truck load of classified documents taken from Mar A Lago are no small issue, and I don't believe these are nullified by the defence that Mike Pence was found to have a shopping list on the back of an envelope once containing a letter from President Xi, or Joe Biden was found to have a Vice- Presidential post it note on the dashboard of his Corvette.

    And January 6th. Where do we start?

    Oh an talking of politically motivated prosecutions of the innocent, it's BJ day on Wednesday. Shame on you David Pannick!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Pigeon, my jest was of the utmost quality, and you know it. :D
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739

    And January 6th. Where do we start?

    Who will come up with the most ridiculous excuse for their behaviour this week...

    Trump or BoZo ?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    As I said yesterday if even dottery old Ruth has woken up and smelt the coffee today then it is all over for the Murrell mafia. Humza may need to find a real job for first time in his life.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    As I said yesterday if even dottery old Ruth has woken up and smelt the coffee today then it is all over for the Murrell mafia. Humza may need to find a real job for first time in his life.
    Yes, I had your comment in mind!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    pigeon said:

    How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?

    Me for starters. I've led a banal existence. Haven't incited even a single attempt to overthrow the Government.
    I think that the laws and rules in society are now so complicated and all-encompassing, particularly in the US, that most people will have violated them unwittingly at least once.

    This means that you only escape conviction insofar as you escape notice, which has a stifling effect on a democratic society.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    pigeon said:

    How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?

    Me for starters. I've led a banal existence. Haven't incited even a single attempt to overthrow the Government.
    I think that the laws and rules in society are now so complicated and all-encompassing, particularly in the US, that most people will have violated them unwittingly at least once.

    This means that you only escape conviction insofar as you escape notice, which has a stifling effect on a democratic society.
    If a police officer follows you for long enough, you're gonna get a ticket.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    It really is a shame Stuart is not here.

    If nothing else we could thank him for his tip on Humza, which encouraged me to lump on Forbes
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    edited March 2023
    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    It's a near perfect analogy.

    Both are members of parties that backed armed insurrection/terrorism over democracy, and potentially Trump could also win an election from prison.
    Can’t see Trump missing a meal.

    This is the closer comparison of course.


  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287

    pigeon said:

    How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?

    Me for starters. I've led a banal existence. Haven't incited even a single attempt to overthrow the Government.
    I think that the laws and rules in society are now so complicated and all-encompassing, particularly in the US, that most people will have violated them unwittingly at least once.

    This means that you only escape conviction insofar as you escape notice, which has a stifling effect on a democratic society.
    If a police officer follows you for long enough, you're gonna get a ticket.
    Untrue. I was recently followed for quite some time then pulled over as I was "showing no insurance" there were two coppers one distracted me with the no insurance nonsense (my insurer had forgotten to tell the MIB that I was insured) and I had the e mail on my phone.. the other was a tyre kicker.. checked every tyre.... We said our goodbyes snd that was that
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    I thought that Ruth’d plumped for Forbes early on? With her position on GRA I’d have been surprised if it had been Humza, and Regan, well..
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    Suella living the dream, or possibly stamping on a small, defenceless animal. Living the dream may include the latter of course.


  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,569
    edited March 2023
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    Morning, everyone's jumping off the good ship Continuity Murrell and swimming for land, then.

    Anne McLaughlin was put up on the radio this morning, and she doesn't even know what you are talking about. Peter's done a smashing job, let him retire in peace with no scrutiny and she's never even heard of a missing 600k. Her partner is on the NEC, and he doesn't know anything about it, either. Not sure that line will stand up in court, but good luck with that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406

    Probably makes it easier to become Rep nominee but also to lose the general.

    Hopefully so. Its amazing how many people are now being blunt that former presidents or potential presidents should be immune from prosecution.

    It's no longer simply protesting innocence or calling it a witch hunt (though that too), but outright admission that even if they are guilty it doesn't matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
    I'd not be surprised to see an.awful lot of abstentions on the grounds of 'we have concerns over the process but we dont defend his actions'. Trying to accept the technical legal confusion Boris is throwing out but not too much.

    Thatd be pointless though as it wouldn't mollify any MPs or voters who are angry about Boris facing sanction, if that is where it goes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406

    rcs1000 said:

    People should not be prosecuted for their politics.

    People should not be shielded from prosecution because of their politics.

    Where is Trump on this?

    When the indictment is made public we will all be able to judge whether we think it is reasonable or politically motivated.

    I would be surprised if he hadn't done something indictable - after all he incited violence in an attempt to steal the Presidency - but is there the evidence to make that stick in a court of law?
    I'm very confident there is, though admittedly with top lawyers being elected in most states it's quite possible a politically motivated case makes it's way through the system first.

    The Georgia stuff seems so cut and dried, though a lot of it comes down to, like Boris, whether Trump believed what he said. He seems to genuinely believe a lot of absurd and contradictory things, to the point he has potentially strong defences of not having required intent in some cases.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    So amidst global uncertainty and turmoil with the nuclear rhetoric of Russia ramping up ever more, the UK government is testing a siren early warning system for "situations like wildfire or flooding."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,149

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    I thought that Ruth’d plumped for Forbes early on? With her position on GRA I’d have been surprised if it had been Humza, and Regan, well..
    Thanks - I'd thought she had still been on the fence, and had a look, but obviousdly in the wrong place.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
    I'd not be surprised to see an.awful lot of abstentions on the grounds of 'we have concerns over the process but we dont defend his actions'. Trying to accept the technical legal confusion Boris is throwing out but not too much.

    Thatd be pointless though as it wouldn't mollify any MPs or voters who are angry about Boris facing sanction, if that is where it goes.
    Under the circumstances I describe I would expect the majority of Conservative MPs to vote to sanction Johnson. He's yesterday's man, he's unpopular, they know that abstention will be interpreted as support, and in any case I'm quite sure there are more than enough of them who actively despise him to achieve a Commons majority when combined with the massed ranks of the Opposition.

    It's transparently obvious that Johnson is guilty as sin. Unless one of those expensive lawyers so happens to be Bob Massingbird then he's had it. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    58% of Americans wanted criminal charges against Trump after the insurrection but only 19% of Americans

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/19/poll-trump-crime-role-jan-6-attack/7678110001/
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    Eabhal said:
    But that is very misleading, as most of the route is just existing tracks that the new trains happen to run on. The real Crossrail is just the bit in the middle.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    Suella Braverman describing concentration camps for asylum seekers in Rwanda as a holiday. Maybe Gary Lineker has a point about language of 1930's Germany




    https://mobile.twitter.com/Sue_Cowley/status/1637193729743241218
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    MaxPB said:

    We're living the exact life that I think Americans expect from Europeans. Big townhouse flat in central Rome, our upstairs neighbour is playing the piano, my wife just waltzed back in with pastries and coffee for breakfast from the incredible local cafe and they're setting up a string quartet outside for the lunch crowd.

    Much the same in Hartlepool.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    The SNP leadership campaign so far ...

    https://www.notesonnationalism.com/p/previously-on-the-snp

    It's a packed field but this is my favourite so far

    Pat Kane endorses Yousaf saying “he’s no more ‘out of his depth’ than any of his opponents.”

    Honourable mention for this one

    In the handicraft section of the contest, Ash Regan uses the evening’s hustings to unveil mock-ups of the bank notes she claims would be used" “within weeks” of Scotland becoming independent. The designs include this unicorn banknote.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,540
    NICOLA Sturgeon SNUBBED Prime Minister Rishi Sunak ahead of her bombshell resignation announcement, we can reveal.

    Documents obtained by the Scottish Sun on Sunday, show how the First Minister drew up a list, topped by King Charles, of people who should be informed.


    https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10386518/nicola-sturgeon-resignation-vip-list/
  • Eabhal said:
    But that is very misleading, as most of the route is just existing tracks that the new trains happen to run on. The real Crossrail is just the bit in the middle.
    Were not £100m's if not £1bn's spent at places like Reading Station to increase track capacity for Crossrail ?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088

    Eabhal said:
    But that is very misleading, as most of the route is just existing tracks that the new trains happen to run on. The real Crossrail is just the bit in the middle.
    The real point being, of course, that London keeps getting enormously expensive goodies that everyone else is denied. Many Londoners respond grumpily about how their taxes support everyone else but this, of course, is a chicken and egg thing: if the North had an overhaul of its clapped out infrastructure then perhaps it could contribute more to the pot?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406

    Well, that's alright then......touch n'go was it?

    The First Minister has cleared Humza Yousaf of breaking the ministerial code during the SNP leadership contest.

    The Health Secretary, who hopes to succeed Nicola Sturgeon next week as the party chief, was accused of breaking official rules by accessing government material to support his Bute House ambitions and rubbish his rival Ash Regan.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-cleared-humza-yousaf-29494001

    I do hope no one in the SNP ever complained about PMs being the final judge on breaches of ministerial codes.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    TOPPING said:

    So amidst global uncertainty and turmoil with the nuclear rhetoric of Russia ramping up ever more, the UK government is testing a siren early warning system for "situations like wildfire or flooding."

    I'm quite sure that this is nothing to do with Russia: it's merely adopting a system already used in a number of other countries. Practically no-one on this tiny island would survive a full scale thermonuclear war, and that's for the best because you wouldn't want to.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    HYUFD said:

    58% of Americans wanted criminal charges against Trump after the insurrection but only 19% of Americans

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/06/19/poll-trump-crime-role-jan-6-attack/7678110001/

    58% of Americans wanted charges against Trump but only 19% of Republicans
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454
    What are thoughts on Humza around 1.27?

    Back, lay, sit and watch? To win do we need him to withdraw or is it likely close enough the bad press is enough on its own?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited March 2023
    kle4 said:

    Well, that's alright then......touch n'go was it?

    The First Minister has cleared Humza Yousaf of breaking the ministerial code during the SNP leadership contest.

    The Health Secretary, who hopes to succeed Nicola Sturgeon next week as the party chief, was accused of breaking official rules by accessing government material to support his Bute House ambitions and rubbish his rival Ash Regan.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-cleared-humza-yousaf-29494001

    I do hope no one in the SNP ever complained about PMs being the final judge on breaches of ministerial codes.
    To be fair, they did say they would outdo the Tories:

    @theSNP
    🔎 In Boris Johnson’s foreword for the Ministerial Code from 2019, he promises:

    🤦‍♀️ “No leaking”
    🤦‍♀️ “No misuse of taxpayer money”
    🤦‍♀️ “No actual or perceived conflicts of interest”
    🤦‍♀️ “Integrity, accountability, transparency, honesty”

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Scotland can do so much better than this.


    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1483479799117058049
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
    I'd not be surprised to see an.awful lot of abstentions on the grounds of 'we have concerns over the process but we dont defend his actions'. Trying to accept the technical legal confusion Boris is throwing out but not too much.

    Thatd be pointless though as it wouldn't mollify any MPs or voters who are angry about Boris facing sanction, if that is where it goes.
    Under the circumstances I describe I would expect the majority of Conservative MPs to vote to sanction Johnson. He's yesterday's man, he's unpopular, they know that abstention will be interpreted as support, and in any case I'm quite sure there are more than enough of them who actively despise him to achieve a Commons majority when combined with the massed ranks of the Opposition.

    It's transparently obvious that Johnson is guilty as sin. Unless one of those expensive lawyers so happens to be Bob Massingbird then he's had it. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
    One difference from America and Trump is that even though Boris was a winner, and his sins far far less, his MPs actually turned from him in large numbers, which is curious when you consider they did not used to have such intense loyalty to a single 'leader'.

    I guess it comes down primaries and the power of the base.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    Really the Boris defence should be excellent viewing, since it will be 50% technical legal justifications for why, even if he was guilty, it doesn't matter, and 50% of an extended 'I'm an idiot' defence, since he has to persuade everyone that no matter how obvious everything look he had no clue what was going on and that's why he never intended to mislead.

    He'll be pleading more selective blindness than a football manager.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    kle4 said:

    Well, that's alright then......touch n'go was it?

    The First Minister has cleared Humza Yousaf of breaking the ministerial code during the SNP leadership contest.

    The Health Secretary, who hopes to succeed Nicola Sturgeon next week as the party chief, was accused of breaking official rules by accessing government material to support his Bute House ambitions and rubbish his rival Ash Regan.


    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nicola-sturgeon-cleared-humza-yousaf-29494001

    I do hope no one in the SNP ever complained about PMs being the final judge on breaches of ministerial codes.
    To be fair, they did say they would outdo the Tories:

    @theSNP
    🔎 In Boris Johnson’s foreword for the Ministerial Code from 2019, he promises:

    🤦‍♀️ “No leaking”
    🤦‍♀️ “No misuse of taxpayer money”
    🤦‍♀️ “No actual or perceived conflicts of interest”
    🤦‍♀️ “Integrity, accountability, transparency, honesty”

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Scotland can do so much better than this.


    https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1483479799117058049
    If fairness Scotland has been setting new standards in recent days, rarely seen in a democratic country.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    I suppose the question now is what happens if Useless prevails and the party hierarchy (what's left of it) allows the result to stand. Does this all end with Forbes and Regan trying to overturn the result in court - and what happens in Parliament in the meantime? Dare MSPs install him as FM under such circumstances? Would there be a majority for him, given that (if I've got my maths right) only seven SNP members have to vote against to block him? And if Useless fails to win election, who else does the job in the meantime - Swinney?

    You'd think it would be less embarrassing for them to void the current ballot and start again, but nowadays "politicians" and "people doing the right thing" seem increasingly to be mutually exclusive categories, two separate circles in a Venn diagram.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    Continuity is probably what most Members wanted considering Sturgeon was, I believe, still rated well when she quit. The juicier stuff against that continuity position have come pretty late in the game.

    Dare one of the other candidates try to force a re-run? Even if successful they'd probably face the same outcome as Gerry Malone in the famous Winchester by-election.
  • pigeon said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    I suppose the question now is what happens if Useless prevails and the party hierarchy (what's left of it) allows the result to stand. Does this all end with Forbes and Regan trying to overturn the result in court - and what happens in Parliament in the meantime? Dare MSPs install him as FM under such circumstances? Would there be a majority for him, given that (if I've got my maths right) only four SNP members have to vote against to block him? And if Useless fails to win election, who else does the job in the meantime - Swinney?

    You'd think it would be less embarrassing for them to void the current ballot and start again, but nowadays "politicians" and "people doing the right thing" seem increasingly to be mutually exclusive categories, two separate circles in a Venn diagram.
    I outlined the possible scenarios yesterday, but, yes - if Yousaf wins using the current process, it will almost certainly be challenged in court.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Penddu2 said:

    If Trump goes to prison (unlikely as that is) does he still qualify for a secret service protection detail??

    Not so secret. Everyone inside knows it's Big Bubba....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Scott_xP said:

    It really is a shame Stuart is not here.

    If nothing else we could thank him for his tip on Humza, which encouraged me to lump on Forbes

    Will he be manning the shredders or just packing up his office I wonder.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781
    edited March 2023
    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    It's all too awkward imo. The least worst option is to brazen it out and get the leadership election done.

    It's Holyrood which will be interesting. The Greens will sense a huge opportunity to become the mainstream pro indy left party, taking votes off Labour and the SNP. Yousaf (if he wins) will have to work very hard to get them back onside (Edit: zero chance if it's Forbes).

    It could get very messy. I think there's a chance Yousaf leads the SNP into an election in May.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    Tensions decreasing? Not very 2020s.

    According to @JosepBorrellF , today Kosovo and Serbia have reached an agreement on the normalization of relations and implementation plan. Under the Agreement (see art 1-4), Serbia recognises Kosovo's state attributes.
    https://twitter.com/istrefik/status/1637220068999278593?cxt=HHwWgsC9_c6-ybgtAAAA
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    Continuity is probably what most Members wanted considering Sturgeon was, I believe, still rated well when she quit. The juicier stuff against that continuity position have come pretty late in the game.

    Dare one of the other candidates try to force a re-run? Even if successful they'd probably face the same outcome as Gerry Malone in the famous Winchester by-election.
    Rubbish , the candidates will do it for sure and Humza will be shown to be the idiot he is. They have just passed the baton to another clown. It has been obvious that it was at best really dodgy since the beginning.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    What are thoughts on Humza around 1.27?

    Back, lay, sit and watch? To win do we need him to withdraw or is it likely close enough the bad press is enough on its own?

    He is doomed
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,406
    edited March 2023
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    Continuity is probably what most Members wanted considering Sturgeon was, I believe, still rated well when she quit. The juicier stuff against that continuity position have come pretty late in the game.

    Dare one of the other candidates try to force a re-run? Even if successful they'd probably face the same outcome as Gerry Malone in the famous Winchester by-election.
    Rubbish , the candidates will do it for sure and Humza will be shown to be the idiot he is. They have just passed the baton to another clown. It has been obvious that it was at best really dodgy since the beginning.
    Surely the party splits if one or more leadership candidates legally challenge the outcome of the election? It's one thing to express concerns, it's another to take the party to court about it. Independence is bigger than the SNP, and if you don't trust the party machine that much - when given the backing HUmza has most of the MSPs do - then how can they still be in it?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    It's all too awkward imo. The least worst option is to brazen it out and get the leadership election done.

    It's Holyrood which will be interesting. The Greens will sense a huge opportunity to become the mainstream pro indy left party, taking votes off Labour and the SNP. Yousaf (if he wins) will have to work very hard to get them back onside (Edit: zero chance if it's Forbes).

    It could get very messy. I think there's a chance Yousaf leads the SNP into an election in May.
    The Greens may sense an opportunity but they strike me as fruit loops (like the English ones, only more radical) with a low ceiling of support. If they do succeed in winning more converts then it is more likely to come from frustrated and slightly nutty youths than what's left of the Labour vote, which ought to have the net effect of splitting the pro-independence bloc and letting more Labour candidates in through the middle.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781
    malcolmg said:

    What are thoughts on Humza around 1.27?

    Back, lay, sit and watch? To win do we need him to withdraw or is it likely close enough the bad press is enough on its own?

    He is doomed
    He's not if the huge drop in membership is people like you dropping out because of GRR/lack of indy progress. I would imagine the party strategy now will be to just carry on as best they can with election, particularly if Yousaf looks like he will win by a large margin (apparently they can see the live vote totals?).

    Crucial: voting has already been going on for some time, and before this all kicked off.
  • Could Bozza be saved by the Coronation?

    If he gets suspended for two weeks, that would normally by just enough for him be recalled, ie ten sitting days in parliament

    If it just happens to be two weeks including the Coronation then he’d only be suspended for nine days
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    Morning, everyone's jumping off the good ship Continuity Murrell and swimming for land, then.

    Anne McLaughlin was put up on the radio this morning, and she doesn't even know what you are talking about. Peter's done a smashing job, let him retire in peace with no scrutiny and she's never even heard of a missing 600k. Her partner is on the NEC, and he doesn't know anything about it, either. Not sure that line will stand up in court, but good luck with that.
    These absolute clowns on the NEC will start singing once they realise they are culpable for any crimes and missing cash and I doubt many of them have large property portfolios here and abroad like some people.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
    I'd not be surprised to see an.awful lot of abstentions on the grounds of 'we have concerns over the process but we dont defend his actions'. Trying to accept the technical legal confusion Boris is throwing out but not too much.

    Thatd be pointless though as it wouldn't mollify any MPs or voters who are angry about Boris facing sanction, if that is where it goes.
    Under the circumstances I describe I would expect the majority of Conservative MPs to vote to sanction Johnson. He's yesterday's man, he's unpopular, they know that abstention will be interpreted as support, and in any case I'm quite sure there are more than enough of them who actively despise him to achieve a Commons majority when combined with the massed ranks of the Opposition.

    It's transparently obvious that Johnson is guilty as sin. Unless one of those expensive lawyers so happens to be Bob Massingbird then he's had it. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
    Is there much mileage in the usual ERG suspects standing up to support Boris? I suppose all the other parties could decide to abstain and make it a blue-on-blue fight. But that's no going to happen is it, when the prize is kicking Boris in the balls. So Boris is going to lose the vote. Bigly. There are enough Tories who have always hated him/come round to hating him.

    So why stand up for Boris? Losers rallying around Nadine? What a cause.... Suspect those few who Boris might have had on his supporters list will all be having a wisdom tooth removed. 450+ majority to sanction him.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781
    pigeon said:

    Eabhal said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    It's all too awkward imo. The least worst option is to brazen it out and get the leadership election done.

    It's Holyrood which will be interesting. The Greens will sense a huge opportunity to become the mainstream pro indy left party, taking votes off Labour and the SNP. Yousaf (if he wins) will have to work very hard to get them back onside (Edit: zero chance if it's Forbes).

    It could get very messy. I think there's a chance Yousaf leads the SNP into an election in May.
    The Greens may sense an opportunity but they strike me as fruit loops (like the English ones, only more radical) with a low ceiling of support. If they do succeed in winning more converts then it is more likely to come from frustrated and slightly nutty youths than what's left of the Labour vote, which ought to have the net effect of splitting the pro-independence bloc and letting more Labour candidates in through the middle.
    There is a surprisingly large chunk of the Scottish Labour vote that is pro-indy. But you're right about the larger effect being to split the indy vote at UK GE.

    At Holyrood that doesn't matter so much with our voting system, and that's the parliament the Greens are interested in.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    ydoethur said:

    pigeon said:

    How many people would escape conviction if their life was subjected to exacting investigation?

    Me for starters. I've led a banal existence. Haven't incited even a single attempt to overthrow the Government.
    What was it that the Regent Law School Professor said in his lecture on the right to silence?

    'There is no man on earth, there is no woman in this country who can honestly say with complete confidence "I have never violated any provision of the Internal Revenue Code".'
    I actually could (U.K. version).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    Eabhal said:

    malcolmg said:

    What are thoughts on Humza around 1.27?

    Back, lay, sit and watch? To win do we need him to withdraw or is it likely close enough the bad press is enough on its own?

    He is doomed
    He's not if the huge drop in membership is people like you dropping out because of GRR/lack of indy progress. I would imagine the party strategy now will be to just carry on as best they can with election, particularly if Yousaf looks like he will win by a large margin (apparently they can see the live vote totals?).

    Crucial: voting has already been going on for some time, and before this all kicked off.
    Even with such help he was not winning by a large margin though so it was no surprise the questions on members was called. Likely that more have already voted than they have members so if Useless gets there it will be very embarrassing in court.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,454

    Penddu2 said:

    If Trump goes to prison (unlikely as that is) does he still qualify for a secret service protection detail??

    Not so secret. Everyone inside knows it's Big Bubba....
    Its a good question but realistically even if its a prison sentence (which it wont be), practicalities would likely move it down to house arrest.
  • Could Bozza be saved by the Coronation?

    If he gets suspended for two weeks, that would normally by just enough for him be recalled, ie ten sitting days in parliament

    If it just happens to be two weeks including the Coronation then he’d only be suspended for nine days

    Good morning

    Johnson and his legal team are convinced he is innocent

    It is generally accepted he did mislead the house, but has anybody posed the question that the committee fail to find him guilty of deliberately misleading the HOC
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 14,912

    Pulpstar said:

    Lil @ comparing Trump to Bobby Sands

    I don’t think anyone ever sang “are you hungry” at Donald Trump!
    "Can you go a chicken supper Donald Trump..."
    Thank you - couldn’t remember the song!
    One benefit of growing up in Scotland is that you pick up an extensive knowledge of sectarian baladry.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,624
    kle4 said:

    Tensions decreasing? Not very 2020s.

    According to @JosepBorrellF , today Kosovo and Serbia have reached an agreement on the normalization of relations and implementation plan. Under the Agreement (see art 1-4), Serbia recognises Kosovo's state attributes.
    https://twitter.com/istrefik/status/1637220068999278593?cxt=HHwWgsC9_c6-ybgtAAAA

    Quite possibly related to Ukraine.

    Serbia - “The West is united on beating on Russia, which is in no state to help us.”

    A version of the post-Falklands thing For the U.K.? And similar after the first Gulf War for the US?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    Continuity is probably what most Members wanted considering Sturgeon was, I believe, still rated well when she quit. The juicier stuff against that continuity position have come pretty late in the game.

    Dare one of the other candidates try to force a re-run? Even if successful they'd probably face the same outcome as Gerry Malone in the famous Winchester by-election.
    Rubbish , the candidates will do it for sure and Humza will be shown to be the idiot he is. They have just passed the baton to another clown. It has been obvious that it was at best really dodgy since the beginning.
    Surely the party splits if one or more leadership candidates legally challenge the outcome of the election? It's one thing to express concerns, it's another to take the party to court about it. Independence is bigger than the SNP, and if you don't trust the party machine that much - when given the backing HUmza has most of the MSPs do - then how can they still be in it?
    He only has the seat warming butt lickers support. Many have already left and more will go but they will go to other independence parties unless the SNP clear out the stables. If Humza wins then the knives will really come out and he will not last long even if he survives the court case.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,569
    edited March 2023
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Slightly disappointed that the Sunday Mail SNP Sex Scandal isn't news of Humza's past love life, but a rerunning of the appalling Jordan Linden's activities.

    Yes they could fill a few pages given the allegations. They are some bunch for sure but how could someone as stupid as him ever get to where he is even if I know that he never had a job , worked for first Asian MSP and obviously kissed eth right butts thereafter. Like many of them , all parties , he was involved in the US International Visitor Leadership Program. A nice front.
    Morning, Malky and Araminta. I see Ruth Wishart has plumped for Ms Forbes this morning.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23396248.ruth-wishart-independence-needs-reset---kate-forbes-best-placed/
    Morning, everyone's jumping off the good ship Continuity Murrell and swimming for land, then.

    Anne McLaughlin was put up on the radio this morning, and she doesn't even know what you are talking about. Peter's done a smashing job, let him retire in peace with no scrutiny and she's never even heard of a missing 600k. Her partner is on the NEC, and he doesn't know anything about it, either. Not sure that line will stand up in court, but good luck with that.
    These absolute clowns on the NEC will start singing once they realise they are culpable for any crimes and missing cash and I doubt many of them have large property portfolios here and abroad like some people.
    I believe Ms McLaughlin's partner has some form being involved with organisations that have had their finances questioned.

    Well, we can't all have a house in Portugal/France to leg it to when the shit hits the fan, eh?

    Edit: Mike Russell on BBC Scotland just now saying he doesn't want a re-run
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    pigeon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice and early, if off topic (or perhaps, on topic, different country...), the Sunday Rawnsley:

    There will be a lot at stake at what is expected to be a marathon [Johnson privileges ctte] inquisition. The bereaved families of Covid casualties and everyone else outraged by this scandal have had a long wait for the moment when Mr Johnson is finally held to official account for the deceptions he deployed to try to cover up Partygate. A guilty verdict from the committee will resonate around the world because it is highly likely to lead to his eviction from the Commons.

    ...this is an interrogation the accused has been dreading. We know this because he has hired expensive lawyers, at a chunky cost to the taxpayer, to advise him on how to save his skin. We also know this because of the desperate efforts made by him and his gang to try to suppress and discredit investigation of his misconduct.

    Everyone everywhere knows that law-breaking was rampant in Downing Street. The committee’s job is to judge whether his denials were the result of an innocent misapprehension about the lockdown-busting that went on in Number 10 or whether he told deliberate lies to MPs.

    [The interim report] concluded that it would have been “obvious” to Mr Johnson that the law was being flouted inside Number 10, especially when he himself was present at rule-busting parties.

    “The committee will really have to be on the top of its game,” says one privy counsellor.

    So Wednesday is going to be a big day. We may be witnesses to the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson’s parliamentary career and his lie-strewn odyssey through British political life. That’s huge. Even more crucially, the Commons has an opportunity that it must seize to protect itself and us from mendacious government. It is a basic premise of our democracy that the executive is held to account by parliament. That foundation is destroyed if ministers think they can get away with deliberately misleading MPs.

    This is why it is so essential that the penalties for lying to parliament must be steep and especially severe when the perpetrator has lied, and on a grave issue, from the highest office in the land. It is not just the fate of a disgraced prime minister that is at stake. It is the credibility of parliament, the trustworthiness of our political culture and the health of our democracy.

    If, as we expect, the evidence is damning and the condemnation of the committee severe, then surely Johnson is toast? On a free vote, and making the reasonable assumption that virtually all of the opposition MPs vote to sanction him, it's only going to take a small fraction of the Tories to do likewise. Nothing the Rees-Moggs and Dorries of this world can do to save him.
    I fear it’ll be ‘greased piglet’ time again!

    A disappointing thought for a pleasant Mothering Sunday morning.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,088
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    It has been alleged that Mr Useless has had access to the voting online. It is also noticeable that despite the awe inspiring crash of the Sturgeon/Murrell wagon the odds on his success get ever tighter. It is hard not to conclude that that is being driven by information that should not be in the public domain.

    The question for the SNP is whether this election can be allowed to stand. Given the complete lack of trust in Murrell, the problems with identifying the membership, the suspicions about the use of "phantom" votes based on those who have left or died and no doubt many other allegations to come I would suggest the answer to that question is no. A new, independent chief executive needs to be appointed, an independent body needs to audit and vouch for the ballots sent out and an independent body needs to do the counting. This is Scotland's First Minister we are talking about here.

    Continuity is probably what most Members wanted considering Sturgeon was, I believe, still rated well when she quit. The juicier stuff against that continuity position have come pretty late in the game.

    Dare one of the other candidates try to force a re-run? Even if successful they'd probably face the same outcome as Gerry Malone in the famous Winchester by-election.
    Rubbish , the candidates will do it for sure and Humza will be shown to be the idiot he is. They have just passed the baton to another clown. It has been obvious that it was at best really dodgy since the beginning.
    Surely the party splits if one or more leadership candidates legally challenge the outcome of the election? It's one thing to express concerns, it's another to take the party to court about it. Independence is bigger than the SNP, and if you don't trust the party machine that much - when given the backing HUmza has most of the MSPs do - then how can they still be in it?
    This is guesswork on my part - I don't live up in Scotland - but surely under such circumstances the minority faction in the SNP will stay and fight? They've got the recent examples of both Change UK and the Alba Party, with the former being perhaps the more instructive comparator in this case, to show what happens to politicians who can't reconcile themselves to the behaviour of the faction in control and elect to walk.

    They're perfectly entitled to challenge the election process in court and, even if the Greens back the nomination of Useless as FM rather than abstaining, they still only need a handful of votes to veto him whilst the case is in progress. The advent of Alba Party II is, presumably, still some way distant.
This discussion has been closed.