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Compulsory voting ID – A CON gift to LAB & the LDs? – politicalbetting.com

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  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787


    Wagner group put £13 million bounty on Italian defence minister

    Mafia must be feeling conflicted


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/16/russian-wagner-group-places-15m-bounty-italian-minister-guido/
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772
    Carnyx said:

    Labour did not fiddle the laws to begin with.
    But they played the angles on the 2001 redistricting that we are still using

    It’s fine to criticise the measures to strengthen the security of the ballot (I disagree with your view but whatever). But to attack a foot soldier for doing what is rational given the context of the law is unfair
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    TEST
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    TOPPING said:

    Did I ever mention that this happened to me?

    The polling booth staff are so nervous - I was mumbling something about voter fraud/the police - that they put it down to human error and, after a call to who knows who, they let you vote.

    After you show them some ID.

    I'm sure there is a lesson in there somewhere.
    I'm not sure if you did, but I do recall someone posting here who was refused a vote in those circumstances who went to the police and was pretty much laughed out of the door. I wish the Vanilla search was better so I could find it!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754

    I won't respond to your trolling, but my view FWIW is that it's a transparent but probably rather ineffective attempt at suppression of younger (and therefore less documented plus more left-wing) voters. As OGH suggests it may do some collateral damage to the very elderly, mostly Tory, vote, so the overall effect may simply be to make British democracy a bit less representative all round.
    That it is an attempt at suppression is obvious from the fact that, unlike in NI, they aren’t automatically issuing the ID. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if we must do this then print our faces on our polling cards and ask us to bring them. Have a printer on site if we forget. Job done.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,307

    Meanwhile....

    Manic Manny Macron has pushed pension reform over the heads of Parliament. Unsurprisingly the opposition has exploded.

    In all likelihood this will spill on to the streets and the UK strikes will look endearingly amateur.

    I remain to be convinced the Rugby World Cup and the Olympics will go seamlessly.

    I have just read up on Article 49.3 of the French Constitution. Fascinating stuff for constitutional law geeks! So the AN can be bypassed by the executive but the AN can veto the law if it simultaneously votes no confidence in the government (necessitating fresh legislative elections).

    I am assuming that there aren’t the numbers in the AN to vote no confidence in the government over this?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,323
    Endillion said:

    Nah, if you turn up lateish you can see which addresses aren't crossed out and just tell the officials you live at the ones that are still left, and hope. Or you find out which of your neighbours never vote and it's even more straightforward. Lots of other ways. Also, currently if it does happen, the officials just assume they made a mistake in the crossing out - do we keep track of how often this happens?
    So why not tell people to bring their polling cards? No polling card then you have to show who you are in some way. The Conservatives have immediately gone for the most extreme form of requiring ID, for obvious reasons - it's a blatant attempt at vote-rigging.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754
    Driver said:

    Indeed.

    Rocket science is possible.
    Not for Richard Branson….
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,371

    You've clearly not been keeping up with Jessop's demands – do everything we can to back Ukraine or words to that effect – is he backing compulsory conscription for all able bodied British males over the age of 16 (presumably with the exception of one Josias Jessop)? "as much as possible as early as possible" - is a trite catchphrase, not a strategy
    On one hand, if I go into any details, you screech "armchair warrior" and say I want to send people to their deaths.

    On the other hand, if I keep it vague, you pounce on the vagueness. Yet if I went into details on what I thought we should be doing, you'd just call me an 'armchair warrior' or some other rubbish.

    Which is why you are being ridiculous.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    TOPPING said:

    This is a very non-day at Cheltenham; if you don't like crowds, Thursday is your day. And to think they were thinking of extending the meeting to five days.
    That would dilute it imo.

    Four days is pretty gruelling for a horse racing festival.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786
    Endillion said:

    Nah, if you turn up lateish you can see which addresses aren't crossed out and just tell the officials you live at the ones that are still left, and hope. Or you find out which of your neighbours never vote and it's even more straightforward. Lots of other ways. Also, currently if it does happen, the officials just assume they made a mistake in the crossing out - do we keep track of how often this happens?
    Not convinced by any of that. Particularly the notion that I would have a clue as to which of my neighbours never vote. "Can I borrow a cup of sugar? Oh, and by the way, do you normally vote?"

    Perhaps the obvious answer is the right one - we don't hear much about voter personation at polling stations because it's pretty rare.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    biggles said:

    You can access your personal tax account on gov.uk, your medical records via the NHS app, your council tax records on its website, all your motoring records via gov.uK etc. etc.

    Based on your posts, I am sure you have thought through some decent passwords and the like. Most will still be using “Password123!” and four digit codes that are really two digit codes because they are years and start “19”. At this point, for those people it’s better to have it all centralised to make recovery easier later.
    There is a whole lot of difference between someone being able to impersonate you and get access to your tax record but then not necessarily being able to get access to your medical records and....

    John dickweed at the council has access to the NIR as it was called and can look at anyones complete data they want.

    Not only that but a single central db is a prime target for data abstraction by hackers and lets face it.....the civil service is not renowned for keeping our data safe already.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405
    Endillion said:

    Nah, if you turn up lateish you can see which addresses aren't crossed out and just tell the officials you live at the ones that are still left, and hope. Or you find out which of your neighbours never vote and it's even more straightforward. Lots of other ways. Also, currently if it does happen, the officials just assume they made a mistake in the crossing out - do we keep track of how often this happens?
    If personation were happening on any kind of scale it would be with the connivance of one of the political parties, at least at the local level. But it just doesn't make sense. The risks of getting caught are too great, because unlike postal voting fraud it has to be done in plain sight and it involves a lot of people. Just on a risk/reward basis it isn't worth it - the number of votes you could shift are marginal and the cost if you got caught is huge. And with the effort involved you could probably find more legitimate voters to vote for you.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    biggles said:

    You can access your personal tax account on gov.uk, your medical records via the NHS app, your council tax records on its website, all your motoring records via gov.uK etc. etc.

    Based on your posts, I am sure you have thought through some decent passwords and the like. Most will still be using “Password123!” and four digit codes that are really two digit codes because they are years and start “19”. At this point, for those people it’s better to have it all centralised to make recovery easier later.
    There is a whole lot of difference between someone being able to impersonate you and get access to your tax record but then not necessarily being able to get access to your medical records and....

    John dickweed at the council has access to the NIR as it was called and look at anyone in the countries data.

    A central db of everything also becomes the golden grail target for hackers and criminals and it will get stolen sooner or later
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    biggles said:

    That it is an attempt at suppression is obvious from the fact that, unlike in NI, they aren’t automatically issuing the ID. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - if we must do this then print our faces on our polling cards and ask us to bring them. Have a printer on site if we forget. Job done.
    That's an option I've suggested - make photo submission part of the application process (given how the registration and voter identity certificate online priocesses work, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that facility is already built in but not yet activated) and print the photo on the polling card. I suspect the difficulty in this is to get dozens of councils to update their polling card creation software to work with photos.

    I don't think NI does automatically issue ID - you need to apply for the free voter ID if you don't have anything suitable, and the process from what I recall from when I looked into it is more onerous than the one now in place in GB.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    biggles said:

    You can access your personal tax account on gov.uk, your medical records via the NHS app, your council tax records on its website, all your motoring records via gov.uK etc. etc.

    Based on your posts, I am sure you have thought through some decent passwords and the like. Most will still be using “Password123!” and four digit codes that are really two digit codes because they are years and start “19”. At this point, for those people it’s better to have it all centralised to make recovery easier later.
    The government gateway doesn't use user provided passwords - for just that reason.

    One stop shopping is insane. And giving access to everything at every single clearance level is doubly stupid.

    How long before someone starts checking out political opponents using such a system? Or selling their embarrassing medical history stuff to the Daily Mail?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754
    edited March 2023

    If personation were happening on any kind of scale it would be with the connivance of one of the political parties, at least at the local level. But it just doesn't make sense. The risks of getting caught are too great, because unlike postal voting fraud it has to be done in plain sight and it involves a lot of people. Just on a risk/reward basis it isn't worth it - the number of votes you could shift are marginal and the cost if you got caught is huge. And with the effort involved you could probably find more legitimate voters to vote for you.
    Plus, if it were happening at any scale there would be complainants. You wouldn’t turn up at your polling station, get told “sorry you’ve already voted” and leave it there. And if you’ve registered then you’re going to have some intent to vote, so there would be cases of that.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    deleted as double post
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    edited March 2023

    I won't respond to your trolling, but my view FWIW is that it's a transparent but probably rather ineffective attempt at suppression of younger (and therefore less documented plus more left-wing) voters. As OGH suggests it may do some collateral damage to the very elderly, mostly Tory, vote, so the overall effect may simply be to make British democracy a bit less representative all round.
    The younger are less documented?

    I agree with OGH. If the Tories have done this for suppression reasons to gain an advantage I think they have shot themselves in the foot.

    That we don't have to identify ourselves at the ballot seems odd to me - I may be naive in at least entertaining the thought that the government actually saw a problem that needed fixing. The acceptable I.D. is far too narrow though - a credit card or bank statement or utility bill should have sufficed. They should clamp down on postal voting next.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754
    edited March 2023

    The government gateway doesn't use user provided passwords - for just that reason.

    One stop shopping is insane. And giving access to everything at every single clearance level is doubly stupid.

    How long before someone starts checking out political opponents using such a system? Or selling their embarrassing medical history stuff to the Daily Mail?
    Who said anything about giving access to just anyone?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Hopefully TikTok will be banned completely, not just on government devices.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    Driver said:

    I'm not sure if you did, but I do recall someone posting here who was refused a vote in those circumstances who went to the police and was pretty much laughed out of the door. I wish the Vanilla search was better so I could find it!
    No not me. They were all super embarrased and a bit nervous (it didn't seem as though it was a regular occurrence) and made a call to HQ (?) and they let me vote once I'd proved to them who I was.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    biggles said:

    Plus, if it were happening at any scale there would be complainants. You wouldn’t turn up at your polling station, get told “sorry you’ve already voted” and leave it there. And if you’ve register then you’re going to have some intent to vote, so there would be cases of that.
    You can buy lists of who voted, someone hasn't voted last couple of elections, probably not going to vote in this one so fairly safe. I went on voter strike in 2010...for all I know I have voted in every election since
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772
    Carnyx said:

    That's like excusing someone beiung mugged by saying they were asking for it by walking in the street without armour.

    There is an issue of malicious and deliberate intent here on the part of a Conservative government.
    No, it’s conflation of two things.

    Law making should be considered and for the benefit of the country.

    Electoral politics occurs within the frame work set by the laws

    They are different things





  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Guiltless abandon - unless on private land, or a protected wildlife site.

    As it is an ancient woodland indicator, that might a significant number of the places it grows.

    Not a fan of the 'foraging' business for various reasons.
    Not sure what the scare quotes are for. And really - it's a very hardy and recurrent plant that grows like topsy all over the shop. It's not like you need loads.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754
    edited March 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    You can buy lists of who voted, someone hasn't voted last couple of elections, probably not going to vote in this one so fairly safe. I went on voter strike in 2010...for all I know I have voted in every election since
    But if you don’t care enough to check, or to come off the register, then does it matter? There won’t be many in your position.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    edited March 2023
    Pagan2 said:

    So you dont mind sharing those sensitive records with the "Home Office forecasts envisaged that "265 government departments and as many as 48,000 accredited private sector organisations" would have had access to the database"
    I was joking really. Although it's true this aspect doesn't instinctively bother me as much as I know it does many people. I find much of the concern to be irrational, precious, paranoid. But don't get me wrong. I don't mean we shouldn't be careful. It's not as if I'd just be happy with anything. I'd have a proper think about any proposal, cost v benefits, the scope, the controls, and take a view accordingly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    No, it’s conflation of two things.

    Law making should be considered and for the benefit of the country.

    Electoral politics occurs within the frame work set by the laws

    They are different things





    "Law making should be considered and for the benefit of the country." Not fulfilled here.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    Portevinia maculata, the Ramson Hoverfly, is attracted to stands of these plants. Can variously be quite common or in some years, surprisingly scarce.
    Going to have to look for that now! Have probably seen it but not recognised it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    biggles said:

    You can access your personal tax account on gov.uk, your medical records via the NHS app, your council tax records on its website, all your motoring records via gov.uK etc. etc.

    Based on your posts, I am sure you have thought through some decent passwords and the like. Most will still be using “Password123!” and four digit codes that are really two digit codes because they are years and start “19”. At this point, for those people it’s better to have it all centralised to make recovery easier later.


    One stop shopping is insane. And giving access to everything at every single clearance level is doubly stupid.

    How long before someone starts checking out political opponents using such a system? Or selling their embarrassing medical history stuff to the Daily Mail?
    biggles said:

    Who said anything about giving access to just anyone?
    That was the system that New Labour were implementing when the Coalition government cut them off.

    It was bizarre and broken every rule of data security.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,786
    Andy_JS said:

    Hopefully TikTok will be banned completely, not just on government devices.

    Cancel culture swings into action again.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772

    That "contracting" has been abused in two ways.

    By high rate earners in permanent jobs, reducing their tax.
    By employers of low income workers, forcing them to be contractors, so that they have less employment rights.
    I missed @Luckyguy1983 Question but that’s a good answer
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    It depends which dasher drasher turns up - the dasher or the drasher 😆

    This has been the best afternoon of racing this week by far. The stayers had no outstanding candidate for the win, that’s classic Cheltenham Festival, wide open racing, and in the previous races they have been five a breast hurtling to the line, after lot of frenetic jockeying all the way around.

    Hope Gold Tweet makes it in from the course before it gets dark.
    Den't worry Moon - after your stunning record last Cheltenham I'm avoided your tips this time on the grounds that you are unlikely to pull it off twice.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    kinabalu said:

    I backed that this morning @ 11 and laid it back @ 5.5 before the race! Your tips move the market obviously.
    I think a lot of people turn up with money, have a few drinks, not come with much knowledge of the horses and their season. But it is hard to pick festival winners because the horses have looked good on their day during the winter, but surrounded by less quality on that day, and it’s making the call have they got it in them in surrounded by stronger rivals - how much of a step up for them.

    The bookmakers are taking Euro’s on the course. A lot of the on course betting is in Euro’s this week.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,829

    I missed @Luckyguy1983 Question but that’s a good answer
    I'd hate to see the bad one.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    biggles said:

    Who said anything about giving access to just anyone?
    Home Office forecasts envisaged that "265 government departments and as many as 48,000 accredited private sector organisations" would have had access to the database
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Going to have to look for that now! Have probably seen it but not recognised it.
    Quite. Though now I look it up it's not terribly distinctive, just A. N. Other-Hoverfly to the quick glance. Probably recognise it from where it is sitting ...

    https://www.naturespot.org.uk/species/portevinia-maculata-0
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    Stocky said:

    The younger are less documented?

    I agree with OGH. If the Tories have done this for suppression reasons to gain an advantage I think they have shot themselves in the foot.

    That we don't have to identify ourselves at the ballot seems odd to me - I may be naive in at least entertaining the thought that the government actually saw a problem that needed fixing. The acceptable I.D. is far too narrow though - a credit card or bank statement or utility bill should have sufficed. They should clamp down on postal voting next.
    The Electoral Commission told them that there was a problem that needed fixing, so I'm not sure why this is "naive".

    I'm not sure about bank statements or utility bills, they don't come with photos and the latter at least isn't very secure. We needed to add "Minnie" to our water bill account so that she had some utility bill in her name for something and there was no check on the validity of it worthy of the name.

    Strong agree on postal voting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553

    Going to have to look for that now! Have probably seen it but not recognised it.
    Wait for the flowers - and a sunny day!
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,754



    One stop shopping is insane. And giving access to everything at every single clearance level is doubly stupid.

    How long before someone starts checking out political opponents using such a system? Or selling their embarrassing medical history stuff to the Daily Mail? That was the system that New Labour were implementing when the Coalition government cut them off.

    It was bizarre and broken every rule of data security.
    Fair enough. I was assuming you’d have a cadre made up existing tax inspectors etc. warranted officers plus a small cadre of vetted staff in the int/ops side.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810
    Driver said:

    Then your response is welcome, because I'm not trolling...
    Your thinking cap's not on, though. is it?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Rowan Williams is on our flight to Rome, I wonder if this means something.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    I was joking really. Although it's true this aspect doesn't instinctively bother me as much as I know it does many people. I find much of the concern to be irrational, precious, paranoid. But don't get me wrong. I don't mean we shouldn't be careful. It's not as if I'd just be happy with anything. I'd have a proper think about any proposal, cost v benefits, the scope, the controls, and take a view accordingly.
    There were, essentially, no controls.

    Every single data security expert said the system as designed was stupid.

    It would have been an epic, epic problem when GDPR came in, for example. It would have meant the whole system would either have to be shut down, or GDPR not be implemented.

    Incidentally, I do client data security as part of my day job. If I designed a system that did the above and implemented it, I would be legally liable. In a big way.

    Are you an EU hater or something?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,507

    Meanwhile....

    Manic Manny Macron has pushed pension reform over the heads of Parliament. Unsurprisingly the opposition has exploded.

    In all likelihood this will spill on to the streets and the UK strikes will look endearingly amateur.

    I remain to be convinced the Rugby World Cup and the Olympics will go seamlessly.

    That reminds me of an account of French socialists turning up to support the Chartists in 1848, and being utterly disgusted by their behaviour. Instead of going on the rampage, they held a peaceful good-natured protest.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Stocky said:

    Den't worry Moon - after your stunning record last Cheltenham I'm avoided your tips this time on the grounds that you are unlikely to pull it off twice.
    Stocky said:

    Den't worry Moon - after your stunning record last Cheltenham I'm avoided your tips this time on the grounds that you are unlikely to pull it off twice.
    I’ve had two winners. 3 seconds. Unlucky on Love Envoi postal pipped in second. I still have another 6 bets to add another one or two. I’ve got a few stronger bets for Friday. Il ridoto running now.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689

    NHS staff deal done

    Great news

    A unionised workforce get a better deal.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    biggles said:

    Plus, if it were happening at any scale there would be complainants. You wouldn’t turn up at your polling station, get told “sorry you’ve already voted” and leave it there. And if you’ve registered then you’re going to have some intent to vote, so there would be cases of that.
    I don't know about that. I'd be mildly disgruntled and curious until I got home and put the kettle on but wouldn't take it any further. Not going to be arsed to go to the police station for that. I suspect that a lot of people would react similarly. (It would bother me more of course under the new system - because it would imply someone is impersonating me with fraudulent i.d.. But I problem even then would write it off as a teller mistake.)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    A unionised workforce get a better deal.
    Of course, but should the public sector be unionised in the first place?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    biggles said:

    Fair enough. I was assuming you’d have a cadre made up existing tax inspectors etc. warranted officers plus a small cadre of vetted staff in the int/ops side.
    No-one could make a case for increasing the access currently enforced at the time.

    Since GDPR that has been massively clamped down, as well.

    To do such inter-departmental searches *now*, you need reasons and explicit authorisation.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772
    junius said:

    Together with the Council Tax demand from my local council- was a printed leaflet telling me that 'Photo ID is now required to vote in England'. It continues, 'Available forms of photo ID for voting are set out in law. The list includes.'
    'Passport, Photo Driving Licence, Older Person's Buss Pass,Blue Badge'.
    It also states 'You can use your photo ID if it's out of date if the photo is still a good likeness'.
    These are the exact words used by the Council.

    So - when I show my out of date passport my right to cast my vote will depend upon the Poll Clerk accepting my old passport photo is 'still a good likeness'.

    Who is judging how good the Poll Clerk's eyesight is?

    I shall test what happens on 4th May.

    But it does sound like the council/government is making reasonable efforts to publicise the change
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    Sean_F said:

    That reminds me of an account of French socialists turning up to support the Chartists in 1848, and being utterly disgusted by their behaviour. Instead of going on the rampage, they held a peaceful good-natured protest.
    It's not looking too peaceful on Place de la concorde atm
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553
    MaxPB said:

    Rowan Williams is on our flight to Rome, I wonder if this means something.

    There isn't a beard tax in Italy?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279

    I’ve had two winners. 3 seconds. Unlucky on Love Envoi postal pipped in second. I still have another 6 bets to add another one or two. I’ve got a few stronger bets for Friday. Il ridoto running now.
    Now I've told you I'm not betting, your tips will all win of course. Horses not my thing.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772

    Big race of today, 3m Hurdle. And I’m quietly confident here of a third winner this week. Gold Tweet is in my notebook with winner winner written around it, that’s got to mean something.

    Chicken dinner?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591
    Andy_JS said:

    Hopefully TikTok will be banned completely, not just on government devices.

    Wrexham footballers will have to get new shirts.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    Stocky said:

    Now I've told you I'm not betting, your tips will all win of course. Horses not my thing.
    Keep it up then. 🙂
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,532
    Pagan2 said:

    You can buy lists of who voted, someone hasn't voted last couple of elections, probably not going to vote in this one so fairly safe. I went on voter strike in 2010...for all I know I have voted in every election since
    Yes but the same person can't keep coming into a polling booth and voting as different people. They would be spotted and it is too much effort and too big a risk and for so little return to have a team of people doing it. It is completely ineffective. As I have posted before I have some experience of this (not doing it obviously) in ward which I won't mention. Voter fraud is rife here every time. It is the nature of the ward. Personation doesn't work. It was tried here and they got caught (well actually they didn't, they did a runner), however I can guarantee postal vote fraud happens every time there. I'm sorry to say that unwittingly all 3 main parties have at one time or other been at it here. The winner is usually the one best at. Everyone knows it is going on with fictitious names on the register. So far there has only been one successful prosecution. The government has targeted the wrong fraud.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Ghedebrav said:

    Not sure what the scare quotes are for. And really - it's a very hardy and recurrent plant that grows like topsy all over the shop. It's not like you need loads.
    Ramsons is abundant and very resilient.

    I prefer foraging for mushrooms as the stakes are higher, if you make a mistake :)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,823
    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400
    Driver said:

    Let me guess in return - massively against needing to prove whoi you are to vote, perfectly happy to need to prove who you are to pick up a parcel.
    The point is - and has always been - that there are ways to prevent personation that don't depress turnout of people who don't have their driver's license on them at all time.


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553

    A unionised workforce get a better deal.
    Only if there is a bigger pot to fund the deal.

    Otherwise it means a better deal for fewer workers.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    biggles said:

    But if you don’t care enough to check, or to come off the register, then does it matter? There won’t be many in your position.
    So it doesn't matter if someone gets a second vote is that what you are saying? Yes there is a lot in my position as well....about 30% don't vote in a general election. Most will still be registered
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100
    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.

    He has the Beano hidden within it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553
    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.

    When he starts praying, brace....
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 9,772

    I don't think you'll be allowed to vote with that.
    It gets me into French restaurants 🤨

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.

    No spoilers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553

    Ramsons is abundant and very resilient.

    I prefer foraging for mushrooms as the stakes are higher, if you make a mistake :)
    A friend of mine had a near-death experience with a deadly webcap. A kidney transplant later... :(
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219

    There isn't a beard tax in Italy?
    No.

    The "vague, ineffectual attempts to be nice to everyone" tax is savage, though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689

    That would dilute it imo.

    Four days is pretty gruelling for a horse racing festival.
    They use different horses each day, you know.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,532
    Pagan2 said:

    So it doesn't matter if someone gets a second vote is that what you are saying? Yes there is a lot in my position as well....about 30% don't vote in a general election. Most will still be registered
    yes but see my other post. You can't keep walking into a polling station and voting under a different name. You will get spotted very easily.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796

    A friend of mine had a near-death experience with a deadly webcap. A kidney transplant later... :(
    Fond days foraging for shrooms then making them into tea :)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    They use different horses each day, you know.
    Usually but not always.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796
    kjh said:

    yes but see my other post. You can't keep walking into a polling station and voting under a different name. You will get spotted very easily.
    a team of activists with a list each going once into a polling centre, then moving onto the next?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    There were, essentially, no controls.

    Every single data security expert said the system as designed was stupid.

    It would have been an epic, epic problem when GDPR came in, for example. It would have meant the whole system would either have to be shut down, or GDPR not be implemented.

    Incidentally, I do client data security as part of my day job. If I designed a system that did the above and implemented it, I would be legally liable. In a big way.

    Are you an EU hater or something?
    I'm not arguing for a system from ages ago that wasn't implemented. I'm just saying if something was proposed now I'd take a look and decide whether I liked it or not. As opposed to being flat out opposed on principle.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,796

    There isn't a beard tax in Italy?
    Borrow his phone and sign him up to Bristlr
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    Chicken dinner?
    Lemon Tart.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,810

    I think a lot of people turn up with money, have a few drinks, not come with much knowledge of the horses and their season. But it is hard to pick festival winners because the horses have looked good on their day during the winter, but surrounded by less quality on that day, and it’s making the call have they got it in them in surrounded by stronger rivals - how much of a step up for them.

    The bookmakers are taking Euro’s on the course. A lot of the on course betting is in Euro’s this week.
    I've been a couple of times. I much prefer flat racing but it's a great occasion.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    .

    Wrexham footballers will have to get new shirts.
    Pretty sure their owners can afford to buy that as well as trying to buy a place in the League.
  • MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.

    In Welsh?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,532
    Pagan2 said:

    a team of activists with a list each going once into a polling centre, then moving onto the next?
    Pagan you clearly don't know about polling day operations. Every activist is knocking up, delivering get out the vote leaflets, running a committee room, telling, delivering people to the polling booth, etc, etc. There isn't enough people to do that so you move people into target wards. There is no point in doing it in a non target ward. This is far more productive than using your entire team to get a few fraudulent votes. Most wards only have one or two polling stations anyway. Telling itself is a huge operation.

    Really you don't have a team of people to do this that aren't all doing something far more productive.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    Andy_JS said:

    Nothing personal, but IMO this is one of the most incorrect deductions I've ever read on PB. If turnout goes down it'll probably be around 99% due to people not realising they need ID, and who can't be bothered to go back home and visit the polling station again. Elderly people who've been voting since 1960 without ID are definitely going to be taken by surprise by this.
    That's going to happen a lot.

    What happens in a village like mine where there are only 200 houses and everyone knows everyone? The tellers refuse their next door neighbour because they didn't bring i.d.?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296

    I'd hate to see the bad one.
    The bad one would be: 'there is no justification for the changes to freelancer tax rules'.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,400



    Wagner group put £13 million bounty on Italian defence minister

    Mafia must be feeling conflicted


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/16/russian-wagner-group-places-15m-bounty-italian-minister-guido/

    That's getting awfully close to an Act of War, no?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073

    They use different horses each day, you know.
    But it’s not about engineering extra chances for more winners, and generating more money for English horse racing, it’s supposed to be the best in class v the best in class - that’s the main point that shouldn’t be lost.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    edited March 2023
    kinabalu said:

    I'm not arguing for a system from ages ago that wasn't implemented. I'm just saying if something was proposed now I'd take a look and decide whether I liked it or not. As opposed to being flat out opposed on principle.
    Each time a national ID card scheme has been proposed, similar farces have been proposed.

    The one that got to implementation had this farce in the specification. When challenged, the then government refused to remove it.

    In my view, face eating leopards who have show an established, ongoing, propensity to eat faces, will probably try and eat your face. A hefty cage is recommended.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,279
    kjh said:

    Pagan you clearly don't know about polling day operations. Every activist is knocking up, delivering get out the vote leaflets, running a committee room, telling, delivering people to the polling booth, etc, etc. There isn't enough people to do that so you move people into target wards. There is no point in doing it in a non target ward. This is far more productive than using your entire team to get a few fraudulent votes. Most wards only have one or two polling stations anyway. Telling itself is a huge operation.

    Really you don't have a team of people to do this that aren't all doing something far more productive.
    What about using postal voting to corral your base's voters and cut out the polling station bit. I don't doubt this is happening - telling voters to register for a postal vote and then going round to collect the envelopes.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,307
    edited March 2023
    Stocky said:

    That's going to happen a lot.

    What happens in a village like mine where there are only 200 houses and everyone knows everyone? The tellers refuse their next door neighbour because they didn't bring i.d.?
    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the policy I can absolutely see the whole thing turning into a farce on polling day and it becoming the big story, once again reinforcing how useless the government is. It will be another glorious PR triumph for the sinking Tory ship.

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen a government implode so catastrophically. I thought the last 2 years of NewLab were bad. Little did I know…
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    Jonathan said:

    He has the Beano hidden within it.
    Or Razzle?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,323
    Driver said:

    The Electoral Commission told them that there was a problem that needed fixing, so I'm not sure why this is "naive".

    I'm not sure about bank statements or utility bills, they don't come with photos and the latter at least isn't very secure. We needed to add "Minnie" to our water bill account so that she had some utility bill in her name for something and there was no check on the validity of it worthy of the name.

    Strong agree on postal voting.
    The electoral commission said that there was a problem that some voters had the *perception* that voting could be compromised, but that there was no evidence that personation was an actual problem in polling stations.

    I wonder who is trying to give people that false perception?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,821

    Or Razzle?
    Surely he's read it before?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    rcs1000 said:

    That's getting awfully close to an Act of War, no?
    Wagner no doubt will claim they are a private company.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,591
    MaxPB said:

    Unsurprisingly Rowan Williams is reading the Bible, I don't know what I expected.

    Could be re-reading, I suppose.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924
    edited March 2023
    Ghedebrav said:

    Not sure what the scare quotes are for. And really - it's a very hardy and recurrent plant that grows like topsy all over the shop. It's not like you need loads.
    Allium ursinum may well be locally dominant where it grows but many other things on foragers lists aren't so robust or common. Encouraging the phenomenon seems like a bad idea.

    We (being the county plant recorders) have had requests from professional foragers asking 'do you know where any X grows locally' - including from someone who was allegedly making a programme with Ainsley Harriot. They wanted to find a particular plant that isn't that common locally (although it does grow in our nearest woods - a SSSI). They were told to look elsewhere, although I've no idea what they actually did in the end.

    It isn't really foraging if you are harvesting for profit, either through selling to restaurants or selling courses. It is definitely not foraging if you have to ask where to find things!
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,560
    rcs1000 said:

    The point is - and has always been - that there are ways to prevent personation that don't depress turnout of people who don't have their driver's license on them at all time.


    In which caseit would be better if Labour and the Lib Dems were making that point, rather than relying on the lazy (and, apparently, in Labour's case projection) accusations of attempting to rig the system.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,371
    "NEW SNP leadership candidate Humza Yousaf just jokingly asked a group of Ukrainian women in Edinburgh “where are all the men?” There was polite and awkward laughter before they explained that many of their partners had stayed in Ukraine to fight in the war."

    https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook/status/1636385968570908679
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,273
    Fairly happy with the NHS deal, the lump sum and 5% pay rise should come in handy at a time when finances are tough for me having bought my first home. Home ownership can be stressful if you don't have a lot of money to play with and your savings more or less depleted with such a big investment.

    Will be a lot happier if I can start to build my savings up again and the bonus will help towards that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Allium ursinum may well be locally dominant where it grows but many other things on foragers lists aren't so robust or common. Encouraging the phenomenon seems like a bad idea.

    We (being the county plant recorders) have had requests from professional foragers asking 'do you know where any X grows locally' - including from someone who was allegedly making a programme with Ainsley Harriot. They wanted to find a particular plant that isn't that common locally (although it does grow in our nearest woods - a SSSI). They were told to look elsewhere, although I've no idea what they actually did in the end.

    It isn't really foraging if you are harvesting for profit, either through selling to restaurants or selling courses. It is definitely not foraging if you have to ask where to find things!
    It's one thing to get a little for oneself. Quite another to collect whole sacksful for the restaurant trade.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,073
    edited March 2023

    "NEW SNP leadership candidate Humza Yousaf just jokingly asked a group of Ukrainian women in Edinburgh “where are all the men?” There was polite and awkward laughter before they explained that many of their partners had stayed in Ukraine to fight in the war."

    https://twitter.com/BBCJamesCook/status/1636385968570908679

    That’s hard to believe really. 🫢
This discussion has been closed.