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A transitory blip or long term damage for the Scottish secessionist movement? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,594
edited February 2023 in General
A transitory blip or long term damage for the Scottish secessionist movement? – politicalbetting.com

New @YouGov for @timesscotland.https://t.co/NnquAOi1Nw pic.twitter.com/aosgxgz5BG

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  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited February 2023
    Morning all.

    The other interesting thing to watch is the rise in Labour's ratings in Scotland. They have been on a slow but steady upward trajectory and Anas Sarwar is doing a good job.

    If Labour can get into double figure MPs, as I now think quite possible, it has implications for their chances of an overall Westminster majority.
  • FrequentLurkerFrequentLurker Posts: 84
    I'm not so confident this is only a temporary blip, you know. Has Nicola alienated some of the more socially-conservative C2DEs? If so, might a nuanced SLab line on the issue win some round, or at least give them cause to stay at home?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,633
    FrequentLurker said:

    I'm not so confident this is only a temporary blip, you know.

    Almost certainly is.
    I’m betting TSE will be first again this afternoon.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,633
    edited February 2023
    FrequentLurker said:

    I'm not so confident this is only a temporary blip, you know. Has Nicola alienated some of the more socially-conservative C2DEs? If so, might a nuanced SLab line on the issue win some round, or at least give them cause to stay at home?

    On topic, it comes down to definition of terms.
    There’s an arguably a big space between ‘transitory blip’ and the ‘long term’. It’s hard to see how it cannot have at least a small effect on the next election; which category does that fall under ?

    And to some extent the behaviours of the UK government might be discounted, unless they do something else particularly offensive to Scotland, since very few believe the Conservatives will still be in government after the next UK general election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,633
    Hands up all those who’ve heard of Colleen Hoover ?

    The publishing figures for 2022 were rather depressing. In a country of 332 million people, only 28 books out of ~300,000 titles sold more than 500,000 copies. Eight were by one author, Colleen Hoover, and no book of history or politics sold more than 295,000 copies.
    https://twitter.com/JasonColavito/status/1620151389363245057
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,633
    A coherent explanation for the Chinese balloon.
    Note the point about the impracticality of controlling such systems in the winter months.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/why-would-the-chinese-government-be-flying-a-large-stratospheric-balloon/
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    This full-sample Scottish poll is entirely in line with recent sub-samples of GB polls. Quite rightly, the proper poll is getting a lot more attention than 100 obscure sub-samples, but it is not telling a new tale for anybody who’s been paying attention.

    What is significant, as we very rarely have the opportunity to extract such data, is Sturgeon’s -4 rating. That is a statistically significant drop from her typical range of about +5 to +10. However, it is a little premature to say that Sturgeon has had it when the other party leaders have ratings like this:

    Rishi Sunak
    England -26
    Scotland -33

    Keir Starmer
    England -3
    Scotland -13

    Ed Davey
    England -10
    Scotland -20

    Ipsos, January

    Starmer, who is increasingly considered a shoo-in for next PM is on the same level as Sturgeon in his own country and about 9 points behind Sturgeon in her country. If he’s a coming superstar, why is he rating significantly worse that Scotland’s head of government?

    With the Scottish Liberal Democrats unanimously behind the legislation, Scottish Labour overwhelmingly in favour and even a significant minority of Scottish Tories voting for it, it is to say the least a bit odd to blame the SNP-Green government. This bill has broad and deep parliamentary support. Built over the last 6 years.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,772
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, old figures, but a few years ago I read that even 'successful' authors made an average of less than $10,000 a year. Essentially, very, very few can actually do it as a job, so people have to either have enough free time and money to do it as an entertaining hobby, be one of the tiny number who make enough to scratch a living, or not bother.

    And the latter option removes an awful lot of people who might have interesting stories or useful things to say.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    The new Swedish right-wing government got no honeymoon whatsoever and has now resulted in a rush of voters to the Social Democrats, who today reach 37%, a record-high in the SVT/SVO/Kantar Sifo poll-of-polls.

    The opposition parties are now on 54% and the government parties + their C&S partner, the far-right Sweden Democrats, have sunk to 44%.

    The small parties are in trouble:
    Centre Party (with brand-new leader) 5%
    Greens 5%
    Christian Democrats 4%
    Liberals 3%

    The new Centre leader is a very uninspiring chap and I find it hard to believe that that party is going to recover any time soon.

    The threshold to get into parliament is 4%.

    Governing coalition:
    Moderaterna (roughly Tory Wets) 19%
    Kristdemokraterna (socially liberal Christian Democrats) 4%
    Liberalerna (roughly Lib Dems) 3%

    C&S
    Sverigedemokraterna (anti-immigration) 18%

    Opposition
    Socialdemokraterna (roughly centrist Labour) 37%
    Vänsterpartiet (roughly Corbynistas) 8%
    Miljöpartiet (Greens) 5%
    Centerpartiet (agrarian) 5%

    Source: Sveriges Radio Ekot.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,739
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, old figures, but a few years ago I read that even 'successful' authors made an average of less than $10,000 a year. Essentially, very, very few can actually do it as a job, so people have to either have enough free time and money to do it as an entertaining hobby, be one of the tiny number who make enough to scratch a living, or not bother.

    And the latter option removes an awful lot of people who might have interesting stories or useful things to say.

    Yes, it's one of those careers, like music or professional sports, where most make next to nothing and a very few make gigantic fortunes, particularly from film rights, etc. (before they are cancelled for speaking out on trans issues).

    It'll get worse as Gen Zs and younger read less and less.

    It may remove an awful lot of people who have interesting stories, but it'll also get rid of rather more blowhards with nothing to say, who will have to retreat from bookstores to obscure political sites.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Fishing said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, old figures, but a few years ago I read that even 'successful' authors made an average of less than $10,000 a year. Essentially, very, very few can actually do it as a job, so people have to either have enough free time and money to do it as an entertaining hobby, be one of the tiny number who make enough to scratch a living, or not bother.

    And the latter option removes an awful lot of people who might have interesting stories or useful things to say.

    Yes, it's one of those careers, like music or professional sports, where most make next to nothing and a very few make gigantic fortunes, particularly from film rights, etc. (before they are cancelled for speaking out on trans issues).

    It'll get worse as Gen Zs and younger read less and less.

    It may remove an awful lot of people who have interesting stories, but it'll also get rid of rather more blowhards with nothing to say, who will have to retreat from bookstores to obscure political sites.
    I don’t think I’ve ever pressed ‘Like’ on a Fishing post before, but I couldn’t resist appreciating your concluding humorous dig. VG.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    edited February 2023
    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Fishing said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. B, old figures, but a few years ago I read that even 'successful' authors made an average of less than $10,000 a year. Essentially, very, very few can actually do it as a job, so people have to either have enough free time and money to do it as an entertaining hobby, be one of the tiny number who make enough to scratch a living, or not bother.

    And the latter option removes an awful lot of people who might have interesting stories or useful things to say.

    . (before they are cancelled for speaking out on trans issues).

    This would have been a great comment but for the entirely unnecessary and typically hate-filled parenthesis.

    FFS ... this is exactly what I mean.

    xx
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    The Liz Truss article is a signal to the headbangers that they were right all along...

    @TelePolitics: 🔵 The 1922 Committee will consider a rule change to allow a no confidence vote in Rishi Sunak if the party suffers… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622086582466498561
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,772
    Mr. xP, I think changing PMs within a Parliamentary term might be akin to Eastern Roman emperors getting remarried. Once is fine, twice is pushing it, once you're up to four or five people just hate it.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited February 2023
    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    The Liz Truss article is a signal to the headbangers that they were right all along...

    @TelePolitics: 🔵 The 1922 Committee will consider a rule change to allow a no confidence vote in Rishi Sunak if the party suffers… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622086582466498561

    I’m loving this Liz Truss story. May it have long legs.

    She’ll remain my profile pic for as long as she is an asset.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    Good response Stuart. I stand corrected.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Will Sunak slap down Liz ‘I was right all along’ Truss? He really should.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    The Section 35 block on the bill has gone from being a point of high dudgeon to a disaster. There are no grounds to object to the UK government’s block when the Scottish government looks so baffled. This has been a disaster for the first minister and the SNP. It has damaged the nation and made Holyrood look stupid. Such arrogance from Sturgeon has become commonplace — and is doing her cause no good at all.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nicola-sturgeons-betrayal-has-killed-confidence-of-loyalists-dnxkmtjxx
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    It may infuriate Nicola Sturgeon, but it seems that JK Rowling’s political judgment is superior: the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill will be Sturgeon’s poll tax. Sturgeon is not in control of this. She allied herself with zealots, ignored public anxieties, denied biology, produced a bill that most can see is deeply flawed, rejected sensible amendments such as barring sex offenders from self-identification, and cannot hide from the people that predatory males, if the bill becomes law, can manipulate it to invade women’s safe spaces. The recent rapist case will not be the only one that will haunt her.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-has-made-a-mess-on-gender-issues-but-independence-is-bigger-than-she-is-r30hrjcbm
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited February 2023
    “Not an issue” “Nobody cares” oh well…..I’m not sure Sturgeon is out of the woods yet - her inability (and that of the SNP spokesperson on BBC question time) to admit that a rapist with a penis is a “man” left the audience distinctly unimpressed. When ideology met reality was never going to end well, for ideology. The subsequent monstering of the lady from the audience who expressed the not outlandish view that “you can’t change sex” by some TRAs is unlikely to win them any new allies.

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    QTWTAIN

    @KateAndrs: Was Liz Truss denied a 'realistic chance' to succeed?

    Overview and analysis of the former prime minister's essay,… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622134120104034305
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,491
    Scott_xP said:

    The Liz Truss article is a signal to the headbangers that they were right all along...

    @TelePolitics: 🔵 The 1922 Committee will consider a rule change to allow a no confidence vote in Rishi Sunak if the party suffers… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622086582466498561

    He doesn’t need to worry, as HY has already told us that the Tories will gain seats in May because they did so badly last time…
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,334
    edited February 2023
    Jonathan said:

    Will Sunak slap down Liz ‘I was right all along’ Truss? He really should.

    I think her re-emergence is good news for Sunak. While we might not like him, we should all remember who and what he replaced.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Jonathan said:

    Will Sunak slap down Liz ‘I was right all along’ Truss? He really should.

    No, he won’t. Which you and your party should be very grateful for.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    ThomasNashe said:

    Jonathan said:

    Will Sunak slap down Liz ‘I was right all along’ Truss? He really should.

    I think her re-emergence is good news for Sunak. It shows that, while we might not like him, we should all remember who and what he replaced.
    Except for the headbangers that's the point. They wanted Truss. They ended up with Sunak.

    Is now the time to right that wrong...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    CarlottaVance said:

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    It really is her Poll Tax moment.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    BoZo next...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,772
    Isn't Sturgeon's fervour for the gender matter just because it's another wedge between Scotland and the UK, trying to make it Us versus Them?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,080
    ThomasNashe said:

    Jonathan said:

    Will Sunak slap down Liz ‘I was right all along’ Truss? He really should.

    I think her re-emergence is good news for Sunak. While we might not like him, we should all remember who and what he replaced.
    If Sunak were strong enough to do anything about it, it might be. As it is, ...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited February 2023
    A readers letter in the

    Scottish Daily Mail
    Scottish Daily Express
    Telegraph Scotland

    The Nat onal

    It is an incontrovertible fact that the First Minister, having invested much political capital in the GRR Bill, has failed yet again….

    Given Monday evening’s car-crash interviews on national television, the First Minister’s previous omnipotent invincibility is clearly no longer what it was….

    Can the First Minister, clearly with her back against the firmest of political walls, really expect to take the Yes community with her if she has to spend the next 18-24 months “fixing” the GRR mess? Does she really have anything left “in the tank”?…

    Has she the courage and selflessness to fall on her political sword having had her flagship policy fail to make it onto the statute book?

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23298991.fm-courage-fall-political-sword/

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    @AmeliaRocket1:
    Liz Truss believes she’s a genius.
    Johnson believes he’s loved by the public.
    Rishi Sunak believes we like him.
    Ste… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622016290956222468
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    It really is her Poll Tax moment.
    Poll Tax is incorrect analogy.

    I’m still old enough to remember when public opinion was still overwhelmingly in favour of capital punishment, and were furious with the political parties for abolishing it. That fizzled out. Ditto anti-gay campaigns.

    What percentage of the public are nowadays in favour of corporal and/or capital punishment? Can’t remember seeing data on that in decades. It’s a dead issue.

    While anti-gay sentiment still exists in society, it is a fraction of what it was in the 70s and 80s.

    In a few decades folk will look back at the anti-trans loonies and wonder what the fuss was about.

    (Incidentally, a trans person won the first round of Melodifestivalen last night. Notably, all age groups gave the 12 point maximum.)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    @Gabriel_Pogrund: Excl: Mohamed Mansour, Rishi Sunak’s elections fundraiser, has paid a multi million pound settlement after his firm… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1622138724153696257
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    It does not have ‘broad and deep support.’ Opinion polls consistently show large majorities opposed to it.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23256763.gender-recognition-reform-polls-people-say/
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    CarlottaVance said:

    “Not an issue” “Nobody cares” oh well…..I’m not sure Sturgeon is out of the woods yet - her inability (and that of the SNP spokesperson on BBC question time) to admit that a rapist with a penis is a “man” left the audience distinctly unimpressed. When ideology met reality was never going to end well, for ideology. The subsequent monstering of the lady from the audience who expressed the not outlandish view that “you can’t change sex” by some TRAs is unlikely to win them any new allies.

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    This episode is also extremely bad if you are genuinely concerned about trans rights. Even though it was a sex offender, Sturgeon just threw a trans person under a bus, ridiculing and demeaning their self declared identity. It shows that politicians have no real understanding or commitment to trans rights. It is just a fleeting political fetish.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    darkage said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    “Not an issue” “Nobody cares” oh well…..I’m not sure Sturgeon is out of the woods yet - her inability (and that of the SNP spokesperson on BBC question time) to admit that a rapist with a penis is a “man” left the audience distinctly unimpressed. When ideology met reality was never going to end well, for ideology. The subsequent monstering of the lady from the audience who expressed the not outlandish view that “you can’t change sex” by some TRAs is unlikely to win them any new allies.

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    This episode is also extremely bad if you are genuinely concerned about trans rights. Even though it was a sex offender, Sturgeon just threw a trans person under a bus, ridiculing and demeaning their self declared identity. It shows that politicians have no real understanding or commitment to trans rights. It is just a fleeting political fetish.
    I’ve always thought Sturgeon was less interested in trans rights than on shoring up her left flank with the Greens and finding a stick to beat London with.

    If it turns out to have actually damaged her as the threader suggests, that’s rather ironic.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    It is human resilience in action. Even when she has clearly failed, and proven herself to be totally incompetent, and has done vast amounts of economic damage in the matter of a few weeks, she can still come up with an explanatory narrative that gives her confidence to carry on. The thing is, that no one will believe it, but it will get airtime as it is such a big story.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    darkage said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    It is human resilience in action. Even when she has clearly failed, and proven herself to be totally incompetent, and has done vast amounts of economic damage in the matter of a few weeks, she can still come up with an explanatory narrative that gives her confidence to carry on. The thing is, that no one will believe it, but it will get airtime as it is such a big story.
    She’s had nearly nine yea…oh sorry, you meant Truss?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,090
    The First Minister’s car crash interviews last week, even managed to get trending Stateside:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=DrhnXeEG7jk
    Not that there was much actual commentary, because the interviews spoke pretty well for themselves.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    edited February 2023
    SouthamObserver said:

    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.

    Severn Trent is slightly below, but that's within normal fluctuation. United Utilities is actually above where it was last year. Thames Water is about where you'd expect it to be. The South West is substantially below, yes, but it seems to be something of an outlier (for a start, its reservoirs were nearly full last year which wasn't the case elsewhere).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    Pervez Musharraf has died:

    Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's ex-president, dies aged 79
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-64528348
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,353
    Good morning everyone!

    Don’t all political, careers, ended in failure; is the trans row going to be what we finally remember Nicola Sturgeon for?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,491
    SouthamObserver said:

    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.

    Not just very bad or seriously bad, but very seriously bad? Wow!

    For some reason I thought you lived in the Midlands?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,315
    edited February 2023
    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    That's as maybe, but the adverse publicity and ordure is sticking to Sturgeon and the SNP rather than the other supporting parties.

    I think though that it will fade as an issue like it has in other countries where self-ID is policy, such as Ireland or Argentina. Perhaps not by the next GE, where there is likely to be some adverse impact, but in the longer term.

    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Jonathan said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
    No. Not dangerous at all. The mentalists were always mentalists. Now they are fully out from under their rock, where we can stamp on the poisonous shits.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    ydoethur said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.

    Severn Trent is slightly below, but that's within normal fluctuation. United Utilities is actually above where it was last year. Thames Water is about where you'd expect it to be. The South West is substantially below, yes, but it seems to be something of an outlier (for a start, its reservoirs were nearly full last year which wasn't the case elsewhere).
    Yep, we had full reservoirs last year and by the end of September they were running very low indeed. So starting from a lower base this year is a serious concern.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Isn't Sturgeon's fervour for the gender matter just because it's another wedge between Scotland and the UK, trying to make it Us versus Them?

    No.

    I realise that Anglocentrism is rife, especially around here, but not everything on this planet revolves around you precious little petals.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,691
    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.
    It hasn’t been passed, so it can’t be repealed.

    The S.35 issues were largely around the safeguarding issues that self-ID creates.

    The notion that “we can pass a bad law and let the courts sort out our mess” is an abdication of political responsibility.

    This requires a lot more careful and deeper thinking than the TWAW and “No debate” crowd have put in so far.

    And once the “affirmative care” (sic) lawsuits start coming…..

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    SouthamObserver said:

    ydoethur said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.

    Severn Trent is slightly below, but that's within normal fluctuation. United Utilities is actually above where it was last year. Thames Water is about where you'd expect it to be. The South West is substantially below, yes, but it seems to be something of an outlier (for a start, its reservoirs were nearly full last year which wasn't the case elsewhere).
    Yep, we had full reservoirs last year and by the end of September they were running very low indeed. So starting from a lower base this year is a serious concern.

    Why then is the South West such an outlier? Because that certainly wasn't the case across England and Wales last year.

    And now, when the rest of the country is much as it was before, the South West seems to have a problem.

    About the only thing that I should note with regard to Severn Trent is that its reservoirs *could* have been fuller last year had one in the Elan Valley not been emptied so work could be done on the dam. So it is probably more down than it seems, but far from crisis mode.

    More rain to top them up to 100% by the end of March would be good, but there's nowhere I can see that should be sparking serious concerns other than the West Country.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,315
    StuartDickson said:

    Jonathan said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
    No. Not dangerous at all. The mentalists were always mentalists. Now they are fully out from under their rock, where we can stamp on the poisonous shits.
    The "stab in the back" by the mysterious left wing cabal who run our hedge funds and financial markets (!??!!) Is a pretty bonkers myth. Not least because the kamikwasi budget gave those financial engineering Trots massive tax cuts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    edited February 2023
    StuartDickson said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Isn't Sturgeon's fervour for the gender matter just because it's another wedge between Scotland and the UK, trying to make it Us versus Them?

    No.

    I realise that Anglocentrism is rife, especially around here, but not everything on this planet revolves around you precious little petals.
    I do wish people wouldn't post things like this. Irony meters are expensive and my neighbours complain about the noise.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OldKingCole said:

    Good morning everyone!

    Don’t all political, careers, ended in failure; is the trans row going to be what we finally remember Nicola Sturgeon for?

    No.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.
    It hasn’t been passed, so it can’t be repealed.

    The S.35 issues were largely around the safeguarding issues that self-ID creates.

    The notion that “we can pass a bad law and let the courts sort out our mess” is an abdication of political responsibility.

    This requires a lot more careful and deeper thinking than the TWAW and “No debate” crowd have put in so far.

    And once the “affirmative care” (sic) lawsuits start coming…..

    Although - to play devil's advocate here - that's been a long running problem in British politics. Look at Tony Blair's laws. Or Thatcher's, for the matter of that. Even before then, the Obscene Publications Act 1959 would stand as an example of a spectacularly badly written law that the courts had to sort out.

    What's less usual is that here it's one Parliament blocking another, which I believe is a new departure.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    darkage said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    “Not an issue” “Nobody cares” oh well…..I’m not sure Sturgeon is out of the woods yet - her inability (and that of the SNP spokesperson on BBC question time) to admit that a rapist with a penis is a “man” left the audience distinctly unimpressed. When ideology met reality was never going to end well, for ideology. The subsequent monstering of the lady from the audience who expressed the not outlandish view that “you can’t change sex” by some TRAs is unlikely to win them any new allies.

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    This episode is also extremely bad if you are genuinely concerned about trans rights. Even though it was a sex offender, Sturgeon just threw a trans person under a bus, ridiculing and demeaning their self declared identity. It shows that politicians have no real understanding or commitment to trans rights. It is just a fleeting political fetish.
    “Prison onset gender dysphoria” is a new phenomenon which will require study, but not unreasonably is being met with a degree of scepticism. It is particularly noticeable among sex offenders, which raises the question are trans people more likely to be sex offenders, or are sex offenders more likely to claim falsely to be trans. The evidence, such as we have, suggests the latter.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    StuartDickson said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Isn't Sturgeon's fervour for the gender matter just because it's another wedge between Scotland and the UK, trying to make it Us versus Them?

    No.

    I realise that Anglocentrism is rife, especially around here, but not everything on this planet revolves around you precious little petals.
    I actually think that Sturgeon really believed in the GRR, being on the right side of history etc, but that doesn't mean it didn't serve as a useful anti-Westminster tool too. They aren't mutually exclusive.

    We saw this with the UNCRC bill, which I think was testing the waters for GRR. If it is a strategy, I think it's actually quite smart in that it will package the denial of Indyref2 in with lots of other stuff that Holyrood wants to do.

    Anyway, good morning from a stunning but very cold Cairngorms plateau.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,315
    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.
    It hasn’t been passed, so it can’t be repealed.

    The S.35 issues were largely around the safeguarding issues that self-ID creates.

    The notion that “we can pass a bad law and let the courts sort out our mess” is an abdication of political responsibility.

    This requires a lot more careful and deeper thinking than the TWAW and “No debate” crowd have put in so far.

    And once the “affirmative care” (sic) lawsuits start coming…..

    Although - to play devil's advocate here - that's been a long running problem in British politics. Look at Tony Blair's laws. Or Thatcher's, for the matter of that. Even before then, the Obscene Publications Act 1959 would stand as an example of a spectacularly badly written law that the courts had to sort out.

    What's less usual is that here it's one Parliament blocking another, which I believe is a new departure.
    I don't think that will continue into the next government. I expect some clarifications and ammendments to the Equalities Act and the S35 order to be withdrawn.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    ydoethur said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    ydoethur said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    In other news, I’m back on drought watch. In the South West we’ve had no meaningful rain for three weeks and there is none in the forecast. Even after a seriously wet spell from October to mid-January, reservoir levels are well down on where they were this time last year. If we do not get a spring deluge things will get very seriously bad come the summer.

    Severn Trent is slightly below, but that's within normal fluctuation. United Utilities is actually above where it was last year. Thames Water is about where you'd expect it to be. The South West is substantially below, yes, but it seems to be something of an outlier (for a start, its reservoirs were nearly full last year which wasn't the case elsewhere).
    Yep, we had full reservoirs last year and by the end of September they were running very low indeed. So starting from a lower base this year is a serious concern.

    Why then is the South West such an outlier? Because that certainly wasn't the case across England and Wales last year.

    And now, when the rest of the country is much as it was before, the South West seems to have a problem.

    About the only thing that I should note with regard to Severn Trent is that its reservoirs *could* have been fuller last year had one in the Elan Valley not been emptied so work could be done on the dam. So it is probably more down than it seems, but far from crisis mode.

    More rain to top them up to 100% by the end of March would be good, but there's nowhere I can see that should be sparking serious concerns other than the West Country.
    I think that even in bad years enough rain does fall in the SW that there shouldn’t be major problems if it is properly managed (we ended up with over 800mm last year in Sidmouth). But properly managed is the issue. South West Water is not up to scratch. Though it’s very good at pouring raw sewage into rivers and the sea.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,215
    All political parties eventually overreach themselves, expending political capital on bills that are harmful or pointless. The SNP is no exception.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    edited February 2023
    (Block quotes mistake)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Jonathan said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
    No. Not dangerous at all. The mentalists were always mentalists. Now they are fully out from under their rock, where we can stamp on the poisonous shits.
    The "stab in the back" by the mysterious left wing cabal who run our hedge funds and financial markets (!??!!) Is a pretty bonkers myth. Not least because the kamikwasi budget gave those financial engineering Trots massive tax cuts.
    Reminds me of the City’s nickname for Truss - “Daggers” - as in Dagenham, two stops beyond Barking….
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,691
    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,315
    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.
    It hasn’t been passed, so it can’t be repealed.

    The S.35 issues were largely around the safeguarding issues that self-ID creates.

    The notion that “we can pass a bad law and let the courts sort out our mess” is an abdication of political responsibility.

    This requires a lot more careful and deeper thinking than the TWAW and “No debate” crowd have put in so far.

    And once the “affirmative care” (sic) lawsuits start coming…..

    I expect lawsuits on both sides.

    It is unreasonable to require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria* for Gender Recognition and have a waiting list of years to be seen.

    The corollary of halting self ID is massive investment and expansion of Gender Recognition services to get those waiting times down to respectable levels. The dispersal of services by closing the Tavistock clinic should seed these across the country, but the demand is huge and mental health impacts very substantial.

    *itself effectively self ID as there is no physical test, just questions and answers.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,691
    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Jonathan said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
    No. Not dangerous at all. The mentalists were always mentalists. Now they are fully out from under their rock, where we can stamp on the poisonous shits.
    The "stab in the back" by the mysterious left wing cabal who run our hedge funds and financial markets (!??!!) Is a pretty bonkers myth. Not least because the kamikwasi budget gave those financial engineering Trots massive tax cuts.
    The irony is that many hedge fund bond traders of my acquaintance actually have become viscerally anti-Tory in recent years.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Pressed on whether she believes Bryson is a woman, @NicolaSturgeon replied: “This individual claims to be a woman.

    “I don’t have information about whether those claims have validity.”

    Isn't that point of *self-declaration*?

    Someone declares they're a woman, so they're a woman….

    The first minister has said Isla Bryson is “almost certainly” masquerading as a woman, casting doubt on the rapist’s gender identity

    @NicolaSturgeon appeared to contradict her own self-declaration policy for trans people

    Latest at the @timesscotland

    https://twitter.com/mark_mclaughlin/status/1621197486697156608


  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    Surprising, given they can find out about roadworks and road closures.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,691
    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    If politicians were actually trying to solve problems they would legislate to make mapping services incorporate LTNs as soon as they are put in place. It would have saved me a FPN for one thing. (See how our life is ruled by the tyranny of TLAs - three letter acronyms).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    If politicians were actually trying to solve problems they would legislate to make mapping services incorporate LTNs as soon as they are put in place. It would have saved me a FPN for one thing. (See how our life is ruled by the tyranny of TLAs - three letter acronyms).
    Don't get Leon started on W3W...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Foxy said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    We are on the same side in this debate, but your final paragraph about “Socialists” is well off the mark. This Scottish legislation has broad and deep support throughout all sections of civic Scotland and is not a “Socialist” micro-project. Actually, in the vanguard it is the Greens and Liberal Democrats who have consistently driven the issue for many years now. They were the engine.
    The cross party support for self-ID means it is unlikely to be repealed, though I do expect that we will get some safeguards via amendments and case law.
    It hasn’t been passed, so it can’t be repealed.

    The S.35 issues were largely around the safeguarding issues that self-ID creates.

    The notion that “we can pass a bad law and let the courts sort out our mess” is an abdication of political responsibility.

    This requires a lot more careful and deeper thinking than the TWAW and “No debate” crowd have put in so far.

    And once the “affirmative care” (sic) lawsuits start coming…..

    I expect lawsuits on both sides.

    It is unreasonable to require a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria* for Gender Recognition and have a waiting list of years to be seen.
    We already have:

    A group of transgender people have lost their legal case against NHS England over waiting times to get seen by a gender specialist.

    The two trans adults and two trans children had tried to get the wait times - more than four years in one of their cases - deemed illegal.
    But a High Court judge ruled on Monday the waiting times are lawful.

    The Good Law Project - which helped to bring the legal action - said it would seek permission to appeal.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64288386.amp
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,979
    ydoethur said:

    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...

    That is subtle.

    For me.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Sturgeon should do a u-turn and remove the gender bill and replace it with one that included some of the sensible amendments.

    Better to hold your hands up and say we’re going to think again and understand the concerns. It might be embarrassing but continuing to defend the bill which is clearly flawed is doing a lot of damage to the SNP.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557
    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    There's a bit of a rat run on the way to my parents (not really deserving the name, necessarily) which cuts two sides of dual carriageway out of a triangle by using an A road through villages, most national speed limit, except the villages. Some enterprising resident (I assume) keeps reporting the slip road on to the dual carriageway at the end of this run as closed. I believed this the first time. Second time got suspicious and went for a look, all open. It still habitually shows as closed. Wonder whether person is very dedicated or has automated it. Must report a lot to over ride people actually using it!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,557
    Selebian said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    There's a bit of a rat run on the way to my parents (not really deserving the name, necessarily) which cuts two sides of dual carriageway out of a triangle by using an A road through villages, most national speed limit, except the villages. Some enterprising resident (I assume) keeps reporting the slip road on to the dual carriageway at the end of this run as closed. I believed this the first time. Second time got suspicious and went for a look, all open. It still habitually shows as closed. Wonder whether person is very dedicated or has automated it. Must report a lot to over ride people actually using it!
    There was also a report (Ars?) About fooling Google into reporting congestion and rerouting using a trailer full of mobiles walked down a road
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,306
    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    Depends on how well signposted it was. I think people depends too much on their satnavs and end up getting into bother (campervans up forestry tracks in the Highlands etc).
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    ydoethur said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    If politicians were actually trying to solve problems they would legislate to make mapping services incorporate LTNs as soon as they are put in place. It would have saved me a FPN for one thing. (See how our life is ruled by the tyranny of TLAs - three letter acronyms).
    Don't get Leon started on W3W...
    Talking of which the Putin documentary @DavidL among others recommended is excellent, if chilling. In the years to come I wonder if they’ll get Macron and Merkel to discuss what they were thinking….
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...

    That is subtle.

    For me.
    That's a bit like saying 'that's not completely crazy. For Cummings.'

    I was hoping for an absolute not a relative performance.

    I suppose it's an improvement on 'X faces the wrath of Khan.'
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,979
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...

    That is subtle.

    For me.
    That's a bit like saying 'that's not completely crazy. For Cummings.'

    I was hoping for an absolute not a relative performance.

    I suppose it's an improvement on 'X faces the wrath of Khan.'
    FYI - I’m busy this afternoon so won’t be around.

    The afternoon thread contains a classical history reference.

    If you could help educate the likes of Morris Dancer on the reference I’d appreciate it.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386
    The lasting legacy of Nicola's obsession may not cut deep for many. Politicans riding their own hobby horse is irritating, but vaguely amusing if you're not directly involved. Unfortunately for her, it's verging on barmy for some.

    What's next? Legislate to ban gravity - it's very dangerous, you know. People fall off cliffs on a regular basis.

    When a simple question cannot be answered, you know you're in trouble.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,149
    Given Sturgeon's aim to get 51%+ of Scottish votes at the next general election as a mandate for independence after the Supreme Court and UK government refused indyref2, for the SNP to have fallen below the voteshares it got at the last UK and Scottish parliament elections is pretty damaging for her.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,471
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...

    That is subtle.

    For me.
    That's a bit like saying 'that's not completely crazy. For Cummings.'

    I was hoping for an absolute not a relative performance.

    I suppose it's an improvement on 'X faces the wrath of Khan.'
    FYI - I’m busy this afternoon so won’t be around.

    The afternoon thread contains a classical history reference.

    If you could help educate the likes of Morris Dancer on the reference I’d appreciate it.
    I am tutoring this afternoon so will only be around intermittently.

    You may be relying on @HYUFD .

    Yesterday he and I had a positively sensible conversation on history, so there is definitely hope!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,149
    edited February 2023
    StuartDickson said:

    The new Swedish right-wing government got no honeymoon whatsoever and has now resulted in a rush of voters to the Social Democrats, who today reach 37%, a record-high in the SVT/SVO/Kantar Sifo poll-of-polls.

    The opposition parties are now on 54% and the government parties + their C&S partner, the far-right Sweden Democrats, have sunk to 44%.

    The small parties are in trouble:
    Centre Party (with brand-new leader) 5%
    Greens 5%
    Christian Democrats 4%
    Liberals 3%

    The new Centre leader is a very uninspiring chap and I find it hard to believe that that party is going to recover any time soon.

    The threshold to get into parliament is 4%.

    Governing coalition:
    Moderaterna (roughly Tory Wets) 19%
    Kristdemokraterna (socially liberal Christian Democrats) 4%
    Liberalerna (roughly Lib Dems) 3%

    C&S
    Sverigedemokraterna (anti-immigration) 18%

    Opposition
    Socialdemokraterna (roughly centrist Labour) 37%
    Vänsterpartiet (roughly Corbynistas) 8%
    Miljöpartiet (Greens) 5%
    Centerpartiet (agrarian) 5%

    Source: Sveriges Radio Ekot.

    Given the Social Democrats virtually always govern Sweden hardly a surprise.

    The bigger surprise is Sweden has joined Italy and Austria as the only western nation to have had a government reliant on the support of a far right party and that government still has 3 years of its term left anyway
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    CarlottaVance said:

    ydoethur said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Eabhal said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Heathener said:

    On the trans aspect of this it's a topic I don't like discussing online as there is so much hatred around and the complexities and nuances of gender identity too easily get lost in ignorance and raging venom. That's not avoidance: I've written about this in the national press and appeared on tv discussing it.

    All I want to say for now is that the right-wing here and in the US have weaponised culture wars and this 'anti-woke' agenda.

    That's the biggest problem with Nicola. Not that she was wrong but that her timing was and in some ways that's even worse because it can damage a cause for years. Really astute politicians know when to make their move and when to bide their time.

    Two or three years from now, whatever obfuscations are dribbling out of Sir Keir's mouth, the climate here in the UK will feel very different, as it did when Tony Blair's New Labour took over in 1997. The time to move forward with trans freedoms will come, regardless of whether the hateful oldies hate it, but that time is not yet.

    Ideologues of all sorts often do this and Socialists are every bit as bad as the Right. They love to dictate and force their ideas on others because of course 'they know best'. Look at Sadiq with the Ulez.

    I agreed with all of this until the last sentence! The ULEZ is an entirely sensible idea that will save lives. There is support in place for the less well off. It is proportionate to the problem it is designed to solve. Most people who have to change their car will accept it as a necessary evil, like I did a couple of years ago.
    The ULEZ is what you get when policy actually follows the principle of reducing carbon emissions and air pollution deaths.

    LTNs have come about because Google maps = rampant rat running.
    Meanwhile the main problem with LTNs is that Google maps doesn't know about them!
    I managed to get a change on Google maps put in for a new layout, two days later it automatically reverted it because it detected lots of people making the illegal turn. Need to sort that out urgently.
    If politicians were actually trying to solve problems they would legislate to make mapping services incorporate LTNs as soon as they are put in place. It would have saved me a FPN for one thing. (See how our life is ruled by the tyranny of TLAs - three letter acronyms).
    Don't get Leon started on W3W...
    Talking of which the Putin documentary @DavidL among others recommended is excellent, if chilling. In the years to come I wonder if they’ll get Macron and Merkel to discuss what they were thinking….
    More WW3 than W3W?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,677
    ydoethur said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    ydoethur said:

    By the way, I'm disappointed. TSE promised us a subtle pun.

    And then he gave us 'transitory blip'...

    That is subtle.

    For me.
    That's a bit like saying 'that's not completely crazy. For Cummings.'

    I was hoping for an absolute not a relative performance.

    I suppose it's an improvement on 'X faces the wrath of Khan.'
    I thought it was quite a balanced piece given his bitter disappointment yesterday. Commendably dispassionate, as promised.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,090
    edited February 2023
    Woke: The New Cultural Revolution?

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=yysKhJ1U-vM

    You know the tide is starting to turn, when a famously Republican Democrat-donating commentator such as Bill Maher, can get rounds of applause from his famously conservative liberal audience in that hotbed of conservatism liberalism that is Los Angeles, for suggesting that the witch hunt has gone too far, and that society is failing to learn the obvious lessons of the past.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,491
    The Sunday Rawnsley:

    The government appears to have barely noticed that there is a global race to dominate the green technologies of the future. In investment attracted, jobs created, income earned and lives bettered, the prizes for the winners will be huge. In prosperity foregone, the penalty for the laggards will be severe.

    The United States is out of the blocks. The European Union is hurrying along the track. China is competing too. Here in dear old blighty, we are not even at the starting line.

    Some of the blame belongs with Brexit, which has made the UK a less appealing destination for investment. Culpability also lies with the incessant instability since the referendum. We need a long-term plan to invest in the R&D, skills and infrastructure necessary for a green economy, but that’s not going to happen when you have a succession of short-term prime ministers too consumed by scandals and scrabbling for their survival to think about the future.

    Being a serious competitor in this race will require an industrial strategy, a concept to which many Tories are ideologically allergic. Rishi Sunak has had nothing of substance to say about the green transition since he became prime minister.

    The only future economy is a green economy. The coming decades will see one of the greatest industrial transformations in human history. The UK needs to be at the races, not fiddling with its laces while others speed away down the track leaving us for dust.
  • ajbajb Posts: 164
    StuartDickson said:

    Jonathan said:

    StuartDickson said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The relentless whine of the Tory right, as they blame everyone but themselves for the disasters they have inflicted on this country, is the political muzak of our times. Truss’s 4,000 word grizzle is utterly pathetic and was entirely predictable.

    I’m loving every minute. You can hear the anguish of the far-right in their every squeal. They have lost, and they are going to continue losing, very publicly.
    Isn’t it dangerous? Almost Trumpian levels of denial and victim mentality. This can fester and metastasise.
    No. Not dangerous at all. The mentalists were always mentalists. Now they are fully out from under their rock, where we can stamp on the poisonous shits.
    "Stamp[ing] on a poisonous shit" sounds like a recipe for getting it over everything, though. Let's hope it doesn't work like that!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,149
    ydoethur said:

    Pervez Musharraf has died:

    Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's ex-president, dies aged 79
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-64528348

    RIP Better than most Pakistani Presidents
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,385
    @jamiesont: Found it. Oh my Lord she rewrote it and put it in The Torygraph https://twitter.com/jamiesont/status/1621999277085003776/photo/1
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,466
    edited February 2023
    StuartDickson said:

    Scott_xP said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Mr Dickson is quite correct - this has been a Green driven project from the get go. The mystery is why Sturgeon has chosen to expend so much political capital on it. Although the “broad and deep support” is largely from Scottish government funded bodies, not the public who are broadly and deeply opposed.

    It really is her Poll Tax moment.
    Poll Tax is incorrect analogy.

    I’m still old enough to remember when public opinion was still overwhelmingly in favour of capital punishment, and were furious with the political parties for abolishing it. That fizzled out. Ditto anti-gay campaigns.

    What percentage of the public are nowadays in favour of corporal and/or capital punishment? Can’t remember seeing data on that in decades. It’s a dead issue.

    While anti-gay sentiment still exists in society, it is a fraction of what it was in the 70s and 80s.

    In a few decades folk will look back at the anti-trans loonies and wonder what the fuss was about.

    (Incidentally, a trans person won the first round of Melodifestivalen last night. Notably, all age groups gave the 12 point maximum.)
    I would imagine the people that are still in favour of corporal and capital punishment are also at the extreme end of GC allies, eg the Scottish Family Party and the transphobic bigot who was virtually foaming at the mouth on QT on Thursday night.
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