What REMAIN and LEAVE voters now think of Brexit – politicalbetting.com

Leon said:

Carnyx said:

Leon said:

Cicero said:

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Knowing you, it could very well be diesel...

Not diesel. Look at that thick, organic, chocolatey quality

Diarrhoea from civet cats forcefed on coffee beans with added spice?

Closer. It is indeed tropical….

Richard_Tyndall said:

Malmesbury said:

ydoethur said:

turbotubbs said:

Mexicanpete said:

...

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

kjh said:

HYUFD said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

@HYUFD Nottingham:

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc

AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing

You are wrong!

The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most they will get an A* in Computer Science anyway if studying it

My son studied Computer Science at Cambridge where he is now doing his PhD. He did not do computer science at A level or GCSE and was not asked for a single A* by Cambridge in any subject. In fact Cambridge gave him his lowest offer of all the Unis he applied for. It might have something to do with him winning the Cambridge University Computer Science prize when he was in the lower sixth though.

And I expect he got mainly A* and As at GCSE and A level too didn't he?

If he got Cs and Ds he almost certainly wouldn't be at Cambridge.

The fact he won the Computer Science prize clearly put him in the top 10% for the subject he studied too didn't it!!

Yes you would be correct, but that wasn't the point was it. The point was you were wrong.

Yes that WAS the point.

My original point that virtually all Russell Group students are in the top 10% for the subject they studied was correct.

As you just confirmed for your own son too

The main point, as has been shown ever since you posted here, but abundantly over the last few days, is that when you make a mistake you can never admit it.

I make loads of mistakes. I have made them here quite a lot also. When I do I put my hands up. You never do. Instead you squirm around it and move the goal posts.

I don't know why you do it because you would get a lot more respect for doing so. It also often deflects from the point you are making as people will now home in on your mistake, just like I did, so it devalues what might be a good argument by you.

And as you can see people are making fun of you now so the point is lost.

Wrong on both counts.

I said to Horse earlier I made a mistake in terms of the requirement of A* entry grades for Russell Group courses. However my point virtually all Russell Group students are in the top 10% for the subject they studied stands.

Of course as I am one of the few loyal Tories on here still 'admit making a mistake' often really means follow the non Tory herd, which I won't do!

I went to what is now a Russell Group University. I was as much an idiot then as I am now, and they let me in, so I shoot your argument down in flames.

Yes you have some steadfast ideas on the elite politics of Universities, Grammar schools, private schools and faith, all your views on which I largely disagree with. Nonetheless when it comes to checking the political weather vane you can read it a lot better than many of PBs partisan Tories. Your views on polling when you analyse more than just your preferred poll are worthy of a read. Although I was critical of your reliance on the Autumn 2019 Yougov mega poll, however you and it turned out to be right.

Keep on flying the Tory flag. I suspect most who disagree with you also have a quiet admiration for your steely determination. I know I do. You do need to change your view of Boris Johnson however, he is a walking national catastrophe, and if he ever returns to power we will all regret it, especially the Conservative Party.

Anyone who thinks the Russel Group has any real proof of ‘being the best’ in terms of Unis is somewhat deluded. Certainly they tend to have medical schools, be research focussed etc and in general tend to be higher up the rankings. But so what? My employer, Bath, is consistently a top 10 uni in most lists and isn’t RG. It boasts some very well regarded departments nationally. It’s high on the employability lists for graduates.
I despair when I see the RG used as shorthand for quality. It’s not. It’s a smug collection of universities who formed an alliance at the Russel Hotel.

Which have - with it has to be said unfortunate effects - been granted special privileges by the government based on that misunderstanding.

And employers….

You only have to look at the number of paid internships available for graduates - but only from RG universities.

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

CarlottaVance said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

Stocky said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?

Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.

The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.

What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?

Yet every post you make seems to attack them.

Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.

Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.

Once again, directly to ad hom.

Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?

What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?

Or don’t you have an opinion?

I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.

This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.

So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.

Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.

Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?

And if not, why not? What is the issue?

I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.

How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?

I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?

I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.

I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.

The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.

In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.

I support the bill - specifically to make it easier and based primarily on self-id not psychiatric diagnosis to obtain a GRC. But I don't support gender identity always and everywhere replacing biological sex. The default in society should be trans inclusion but exclusion should also be possible. Currently the EA allows single sex exemptions if it's a 'proportionate means to a legitimate end'. It's important this continues and I expect it will. So, easier legal transition, default trans inclusion, with exceptions where properly justified - this is in my view the direction to go in and it's where I think we'll eventually get to.

The issue is the Equality act allows you to discriminate on the basis of sex for single sex spaces provided the discrimination is proportionate. So for example a woman’s refuge against male violence would be able to say to a man “you can’t come in.”

It does not allow you to discriminate on the basis of gender reassignment. So a trans person with a GRC could mount a legal challenge today to being excluded. While very few GRCs have been issued, and those that have have been subject to safeguarding this has not been a problem.

The concern is that removing the safeguarding entirely - which is what is proposed - will lead to a substantial increase in the number issued (numbers are debated, but the Scottish government argues simultaneously that “there is a pressing need for urgent reform“. AND “not many will be issued”) and with no safeguarding in place bad actors will get through. Small groups confronted by people with GRCs will either need to accept them or get legal advice - which many can’t afford.

This was pointed out repeatedly to ScotGov and waved away.

The EA does allow single sex service providers to exclude trans people (with or without a GRC) if it passes the 'proportionate means to legitimate end' test.

Cunningham’s evidence to the Select Committee yesterday that proportionate exclusion based on sex is much more straight forward (as it’s specifically mentioned) than on gender reassignment - hence the concern in an increase in the number of GRCs and removal of safeguarding.

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

Leon said:

Sean_F said:

Leon said:

Sean_F said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

I'm very happy to say that saying elderly people should die was extreme, didn't mean to cause any offence and it was clearly hyperbolic - but I really do stand by the fact we've been screwed over by these people and I think lockdowns were a big mistake when they're so ungrateful for it.

We'd have been much better off just letting nature take its course, that was what I was trying to say, although I went too far.

Younger people also contracted Covid, and died from it.

But so many people are now dying from ailments not caught during lockdown, or exacerbated by the pressure on hospitals because of lockdown, or because people are shunning A&E because of post-lockdown queues etc etc etc

Excess deaths are way up, across the world

@CorrectHorseBattery3 does not phrase it in a pretty way, but he has a point. Lockdowns were a grave decision and it is not at all clear to me that the 2nd and 3rd lockdowns in the UK were justified, given the economic cost, and now the cost in lives

Indeed, I am almost certain Lockdowns 2 and 3 were a catastrophic error, for which we will all be paying for many years. And all to protect the very old and the very fat (in the main). Tragic

There's an argument to be had that these lockdowns were a mistake.

But, that argument is not that it only affects the over 60's, who all deserve to die because they don't vote Labour.

The vast majority of deaths from Covid are in the over 70s, indeed the median age of Covid deaths in the UK is 83

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/averageageofthosewhohaddiedwithcovid19

It was a mistake to impoverish the country, indeed the world, to protect the very elderly

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

I just meant your favourites. (The idea of some global order, or even a national order, is of course nonsense)

Edinboro Castle (which I know very well) is surely a makeweight. (Surely you know and prefer my Notting Hill suggestion - also local)

Many great pubs have gone though. I really liked what I think was called 'The Sun Inn' at the top of Lambs Conduit Street' for example

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

I just meant your favourites. (The idea of some global order, or even a national order, is of course nonsense)

Edinboro Castle (which I know very well) is surely a makeweight. (Surely you know and prefer my Notting Hill suggestion - also local)

Many great pubs have gone though. I really liked what I think was called 'The Sun Inn' at the top of Lambs Conduit Street' for example

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

I just meant your favourites. (The idea of some global order, or even a national order, is of course nonsense)

Edinboro Castle (which I know very well) is surely a makeweight. (Surely you know and prefer my Notting Hill suggestion - also local)

Many great pubs have gone though. I really liked what I think was called 'The Sun Inn' at the top of Lambs Conduit Street' for example

Actually the Edinboro is a fantastic pub. I am lucky to have it as a local

It has good beer, decent wine, it is big and airy, and I hear that even the food is now tasty (used to be dire), it is very mildly upmarket without being pretentious. Good loos

It is also youthful without being insane, nearly always busy without being rammed, and it has one of the biggest beer gardens in north London (nicely heated with booths in winter). It’s a cracking boozer

Gardenwalker said:

TOPPING said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

I just meant your favourites. (The idea of some global order, or even a national order, is of course nonsense)

Edinboro Castle (which I know very well) is surely a makeweight. (Surely you know and prefer my Notting Hill suggestion - also local)

Many great pubs have gone though. I really liked what I think was called 'The Sun Inn' at the top of Lambs Conduit Street' for example

Ex-pubs I miss:

The Hope & Anchor, Upper St
The Nashville, West Ken

My most fervent regret that it is no longer there, not a pub but badly missed:

The Gasworks, New Kings Road.

Hope and Anchor is not an ex-pub, so far as I know.

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

I don't really go to pubs any more so a small list, all London based:

The Cock & Bottle, Notting Hillm
The Grenadier, Belgravia
I'd give the Phene a go although its heyday was around 30 years ago
The Enterprise, Walton Street - is that a pub still?
The Eagle, Farringdon Rd
The French House, Soho
The Scarsdale, Kensington
The Havelock Tavern, Brook Green
Not the Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Nothing that Guy Ritchie owns or owned
The Flask, Hampstead
Any one of those pubs on the river in Hammersmith/Barnes

That’s a classic list by a mildly posh person who used to go to pubs 30 years ago. I reckon I could have predicted more than half of your choices. I am surprised you missed out the Admiral Cod

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

... [snip!]

You OTOH just come on, occasionally say that you know better than anyone else on this without ever engaging, smear and then flounce off.

Hey! That is MY job........

No. Your job is to talk about shoes. So that I too can talk about shoes. Shoes are very important to a happy and elegant life. When deciding on an outfit I often choose my shoes first.

Last week, for instance, I decided on rather natty purple suede shoes and the dress later for lunch with a handsome lawyer friend. Yesterday it was suede ankle boots for another lunch. And so on.

I wore a pair of shoes today that I bought 20 years ago in April.

Thrice resoled, and still doing good service.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

Cyclefree said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

... [snip!]

You OTOH just come on, occasionally say that you know better than anyone else on this without ever engaging, smear and then flounce off.

Hey! That is MY job........

No. Your job is to talk about shoes. So that I too can talk about shoes. Shoes are very important to a happy and elegant life. When deciding on an outfit I often choose my shoes first.

Last week, for instance, I decided on rather natty purple suede shoes and the dress later for lunch with a handsome lawyer friend. Yesterday it was suede ankle boots for another lunch. And so on.

I wore a pair of shoes today that I bought 20 years ago in April.

Thrice resoled, and still doing good service.

I have well over 60 pairs of shoes, many bought years ago and well-looked after. Plus some very lovely handbags, again acquired years ago and well looked after. Plus lots of scarves, from silk to cotton to cashmere to the thickest wool. And gloves. As for coats .....

One can never have too many of such accessories.

One other tip - if you buy a coat or jacket, no matter how expensive, the buttons are usually cheap rubbish. Change them to nice stylish buttons. It lifts the garment in a subtle way and makes it your own.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

New York pubs are shit.
In fact most of them are “sports bars”.

Britain MUST protect its pubs.
They are an indispensable part of its cultural patrimony.

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

If you're not sure if you've been to the Swan or not it probably means you have been.

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

Omnium said:

TOPPING said:

Leon said:

TOPPING said:

I don't really go to pubs any more so a small list, all London based:

The Cock & Bottle, Notting Hillm
The Grenadier, Belgravia
I'd give the Phene a go although its heyday was around 30 years ago
The Enterprise, Walton Street - is that a pub still?
The Eagle, Farringdon Rd
The French House, Soho
The Scarsdale, Kensington
The Havelock Tavern, Brook Green
Not the Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Nothing that Guy Ritchie owns or owned
The Flask, Hampstead
Any one of those pubs on the river in Hammersmith/Barnes

That’s a classic list by a mildly posh person who used to go to pubs 30 years ago. I reckon I could have predicted more than half of your choices. I am surprised you missed out the Admiral Cod

That and the sloaney pony is just a pair of red cords too far.

Also I miss: The Roebuck on the King's Road.

The White Horse is now a really good place. (My election night choice last time)

I wonder if we've ever met before, I spend some time there although prefer Arragon House round the corner

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

If you're not sure if you've been to the Swan or not it probably means you have been.

kinabalu said:

Cyclefree said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

Stocky said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?

Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.

The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.

What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?

Yet every post you make seems to attack them.

Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.

Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.

Once again, directly to ad hom.

Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?

What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?

Or don’t you have an opinion?

I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.

This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.

So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.

Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.

Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?

And if not, why not? What is the issue?

I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.

How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?

I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?

I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.

I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.

The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.

In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.

I support the bill - specifically to make it easier and based primarily on self-id not psychiatric diagnosis to obtain a GRC. But I don't support gender identity always and everywhere replacing biological sex. The default in society should be trans inclusion but exclusion should also be possible. Currently the EA allows single sex exemptions if it's a 'proportionate means to a legitimate end'. It's important this continues and I expect it will. So, easier legal transition, default trans inclusion, with exceptions where properly justified - this is in my view the direction to go in and it's where I think we'll eventually get to.

The issue is the Equality act allows you to discriminate on the basis of sex for single sex spaces provided the discrimination is proportionate. So for example a woman’s refuge against male violence would be able to say to a man “you can’t come in.”

It does not allow you to discriminate on the basis of gender reassignment. So a trans person with a GRC could mount a legal challenge today to being excluded. While very few GRCs have been issued, and those that have have been subject to safeguarding this has not been a problem.

The concern is that removing the safeguarding entirely - which is what is proposed - will lead to a substantial increase in the number issued (numbers are debated, but the Scottish government argues simultaneously that “there is a pressing need for urgent reform“. AND “not many will be issued”) and with no safeguarding in place bad actors will get through. Small groups confronted by people with GRCs will either need to accept them or get legal advice - which many can’t afford.

This was pointed out repeatedly to ScotGov and waved away.

The EA does allow single sex service providers to exclude trans people (with or without a GRC) if it passes the 'proportionate means to legitimate end' test.

It's not at all clear post the Haldane judgment that this will continue to work because of her ruling that sex in the EA includes someone with a GRC. If so their sex cannot be used as the basis for excluding them - under this exemption - because it will be the same as those you are seeking to exclude them from.

That is the problem both with the Bill and that judgment. Until it is resolved single sex providers are not going to exclude people and risk being faced with a discrimination claim. The legal and practical consequences of that judgment are not at all easy and deserve more attention - politically - than they are AFAIK getting.

Legally there has been a lot of commentary on it and it is hard to know how the courts in E&W will rule should similar arguments be made.

From a legal perspective the legal arguments are very interesting.

Haldane should not imo be read as a diktat that birth sex is replaced with gender identity for all purposes. The judge didn't mean it that way and I don't think that's how it would be interpreted in practice. The intention was to allow trans inclusion for the specific purpose of representation on boards. But if this area of gender vs sex needs clarifying in law - which I can see it might given the interplay between the GRA and the EA - then it needs clarifying, regardless of the GRR bill, which only changes the process for gaining a GRC.

Gardenwalker said:

Philadelphia, where I spent the weekend, looked as if it had some good pubs. Sadly(?) I was with my family who don’t quite share my interest.

Gardenwalker said:

Omnium said:

Gardenwalker said:

The best pubs in my old neck of the woods are/were

The Scolt Head, N1
Duke of York, N1
Prince George, E8
Prince Arthur, E8
Spurstowe Arms, E8

I love pubs. The grungier the better.
In my London adland days I used to love the foul decrepitude of the King’s Arms on Great Titchfield Street which I see has been turned into some bullshit “boutique hotel”.

You're estanged from pubs though aren't you? In LA or some such?

And you're a Kiwi I think - why did NZ never quite get pubs right?

I am in New York.
The pubs are mostly crap.

NZ did not get pubs right because of low density development. Pubs need a critical mass of local population who can stumble home.

Cyclefree said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

... [snip!]

You OTOH just come on, occasionally say that you know better than anyone else on this without ever engaging, smear and then flounce off.

Hey! That is MY job........

No. Your job is to talk about shoes. So that I too can talk about shoes. Shoes are very important to a happy and elegant life. When deciding on an outfit I often choose my shoes first.

Last week, for instance, I decided on rather natty purple suede shoes and the dress later for lunch with a handsome lawyer friend. Yesterday it was suede ankle boots for another lunch. And so on.

I wore a pair of shoes today that I bought 20 years ago in April.

Thrice resoled, and still doing good service.

I have well over 60 pairs of shoes, many bought years ago and well-looked after. Plus some very lovely handbags, again acquired years ago and well looked after. Plus lots of scarves, from silk to cotton to cashmere to the thickest wool. And gloves. As for coats .....

One can never have too many of such accessories.

One other tip - if you buy a coat or jacket, no matter how expensive, the buttons are usually cheap rubbish. Change them to nice stylish buttons. It lifts the garment in a subtle way and makes it your own.

Gardenwalker said:

TOPPING said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

New York pubs are shit.
In fact most of them are “sports bars”.

Britain MUST protect its pubs.
They are an indispensable part of its cultural patrimony.

Pubs close all the time, especially outside London.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623

My understanding is that pubs were enjoying a mini revival in the 10s, led by new micro-brewery and/or food-led pubs.

I imagine Covid and now energy prices has decimated the sector.

It breaks my heart.
If I was dictator of the UK, I would find a way to protect them.

Cyclefree said:

ydoethur said:

Cyclefree said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Cyclefree said:

... [snip!]

You OTOH just come on, occasionally say that you know better than anyone else on this without ever engaging, smear and then flounce off.

Hey! That is MY job........

No. Your job is to talk about shoes. So that I too can talk about shoes. Shoes are very important to a happy and elegant life. When deciding on an outfit I often choose my shoes first.

Last week, for instance, I decided on rather natty purple suede shoes and the dress later for lunch with a handsome lawyer friend. Yesterday it was suede ankle boots for another lunch. And so on.

I wore a pair of shoes today that I bought 20 years ago in April.

Thrice resoled, and still doing good service.

I have well over 60 pairs of shoes, many bought years ago and well-looked after. Plus some very lovely handbags, again acquired years ago and well looked after. Plus lots of scarves, from silk to cotton to cashmere to the thickest wool. And gloves. As for coats .....

One can never have too many of such accessories.

One other tip - if you buy a coat or jacket, no matter how expensive, the buttons are usually cheap rubbish. Change them to nice stylish buttons. It lifts the garment in a subtle way and makes it your own.

Gardenwalker said:

TOPPING said:

Gardenwalker said:

TOPPING said:

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

Leon said:

Omnium said:

PB distracted by trans issues whilst Labour become a 55% chance for a majority in the betting.

Leon said:

CarlottaVance said:

Leon said:

beinndearg said:

Leon said:

OllyT said:

Leon said:

jamesdoyle said:

After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.

You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?

Seriously. 306 comments, In total

You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS

There is a world of difference to discussing things which are relevant to the thread and shoe horning your own agenda into every bloody discussion which is exactly what you do. You rarely engage with the thread subject but just bang on about you and your obsessions.

Did I mention I went to the FOURTEENTH BEST BAR IN THE WORLD, last night?

it’s such a cool bar, they serve you a free, welcoming “welcome to your drinks” drink. An aperitif aperitif. And it has an ice cube SHAPED LIKE A DIAMOND

Looking back, it might have actually been a diamond

Ironically, my lord, I have a diamond SHAPED LIKE AN ICE CUBE

Challenge accepted

The other day I went to the SEVENTY FIRST BEST BAR IN THE WORLD and they literally put silver leaf on my cocktail



Over to you: photos or it didn’t happen

I can recommend number 12:

https://www.worlds50bestbars.com/the-list/jigger-pony.html

I was staying in the hotel when they were awarded number 5 - and for that night their cocktails were $5. Memorable, well, as much of it as I remember, anyway.

OOOH. Value

“50 best bars in the world” is the most ludicrous list. It’s like saying “the 50 best places to have a nice sit down” or “the 50 best places to be at 3pm”

ALSO it didn’t include THIS, the best drink I have had these last several years. But what is it?

Didn't you start this? (14th best bar or some such?)

I did, and I was there, But I thought my capitalisation made it clear that I think this list is absurd. I mean, there is such a list, and it is significant to a small number of high quality cocktail bars around the world (especially in Asia, where status means so much) but the idea they have or can evaluate every bar in the world - and then rank them - is surreally daft

I do admire the UK PR group that started it all off tho. With “50 best restaurants”. It is now taken deeply seriously

They are doing the first “50 best hotels” this year

Ok, so best pub (or two) then?

Mine are;

Queens Head just outside Cambridge in Newton. (edit)
Windsor Castle, Notting Hill
Pig and Whistle, Kyoto

Even “best pub in the UK” is fairly daft, because - what are you looking for? Great beer? Great food? Great location? Great place to score drugs/sex/double top at darts?

But in the convivial spirt of PB here are my faves in Britain

The Pandora at Restronguet, Cornwall. The landlord is a tit and the food can be hit and miss but ohmyword the location

The Old Forge, Knoydart

The Coach and Horses, Soho (yes, a cliche but still)

The White Horse, Brancaster

The Bull’s Head, Craswall, Herefordshire

The Edinboro Castle, Camden (my local. You have to include your local)

My UK list would probably include -

Skehans, Telegraph Hill - my local, one of the top 10 pubs in Britain according to Time Out and who am I to disagree. Possibly a victim of its own success now, arrive early to get a seat.

The Jigger Inn, St Andrews - I have a soft spot because they used to allow me and my mates to drink there despite being blatantly underage. Unlike most St Andrews pubs it hasn't changed beyond recognition in the last thirty years either.

The Halfway House, Edinburgh - only visited once but it made a big impression, a tiny pub on Flesh Market Close.

The Swan, Stockwell, London - if you've been you'll understand.

Special mention for Marie's Crisis in NYC - where a guy on the piano does show tunes requests and the whole bar sings along - what's not to like?

I don’t believe I have been to any of those (with the possible exception of The Swan)

Britain is fabulously blessed with amazing pubs, full of history, character - and characters. They are one of the best things about the UK and not really matched anywhere else in the world. Whenever I am abroad for long periods they are one of the big things I miss most. A grand old British boozer, big or small, rich or poor, gastro or narco

Long may they endure. The ancient British alehouse

New York pubs are shit.
In fact most of them are “sports bars”.

Britain MUST protect its pubs.
They are an indispensable part of its cultural patrimony.

Pubs close all the time, especially outside London.

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623

My understanding is that pubs were enjoying a mini revival in the 10s, led by new micro-brewery and/or food-led pubs.

I imagine Covid and now energy prices has decimated the sector.

It breaks my heart.
If I was dictator of the UK, I would find a way to protect them.

Some are saved via becoming an ACV (Asset of Community Value) where the local community bands together to run them. Same with some shops, especially in rural areas. But it is a big ask of the local community and these often tend to close not too long after they have been "saved".

Any decent village must have a pub.
I would not consider moving to a village without a pub.

I would consider scrapping alcohol duty on rural pubs and things of that nature.

Cyclefree said:

kinabalu said:

Cyclefree said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

kinabalu said:

CarlottaVance said:

Stocky said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

CarlottaVance said:

CorrectHorseBattery3 said:

@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?

Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.

The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.

What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?

Yet every post you make seems to attack them.

Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.

Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.

Once again, directly to ad hom.

Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?

What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?

Or don’t you have an opinion?

I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.

This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.

So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.

Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.

Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?

And if not, why not? What is the issue?

I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.

How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?

I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?

I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.

I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.

The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.

In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.

I support the bill - specifically to make it easier and based primarily on self-id not psychiatric diagnosis to obtain a GRC. But I don't support gender identity always and everywhere replacing biological sex. The default in society should be trans inclusion but exclusion should also be possible. Currently the EA allows single sex exemptions if it's a 'proportionate means to a legitimate end'. It's important this continues and I expect it will. So, easier legal transition, default trans inclusion, with exceptions where properly justified - this is in my view the direction to go in and it's where I think we'll eventually get to.

The issue is the Equality act allows you to discriminate on the basis of sex for single sex spaces provided the discrimination is proportionate. So for example a woman’s refuge against male violence would be able to say to a man “you can’t come in.”

It does not allow you to discriminate on the basis of gender reassignment. So a trans person with a GRC could mount a legal challenge today to being excluded. While very few GRCs have been issued, and those that have have been subject to safeguarding this has not been a problem.

The concern is that removing the safeguarding entirely - which is what is proposed - will lead to a substantial increase in the number issued (numbers are debated, but the Scottish government argues simultaneously that “there is a pressing need for urgent reform“. AND “not many will be issued”) and with no safeguarding in place bad actors will get through. Small groups confronted by people with GRCs will either need to accept them or get legal advice - which many can’t afford.

This was pointed out repeatedly to ScotGov and waved away.

The EA does allow single sex service providers to exclude trans people (with or without a GRC) if it passes the 'proportionate means to legitimate end' test.

It's not at all clear post the Haldane judgment that this will continue to work because of her ruling that sex in the EA includes someone with a GRC. If so their sex cannot be used as the basis for excluding them - under this exemption - because it will be the same as those you are seeking to exclude them from.

That is the problem both with the Bill and that judgment. Until it is resolved single sex providers are not going to exclude people and risk being faced with a discrimination claim. The legal and practical consequences of that judgment are not at all easy and deserve more attention - politically - than they are AFAIK getting.

Legally there has been a lot of commentary on it and it is hard to know how the courts in E&W will rule should similar arguments be made.

From a legal perspective the legal arguments are very interesting.

Haldane should not imo be read as a diktat that birth sex is replaced with gender identity for all purposes. The judge didn't mean it that way and I don't think that's how it would be interpreted in practice. The intention was to allow trans inclusion for the specific purpose of representation on boards. But if this area of gender vs sex needs clarifying in law - which I can see it might given the interplay between the GRA and the EA - then it needs clarifying, regardless of the GRR bill, which only changes the process for gaining a GRC.

Your first sentence is irrelevant . The case was not about changing birth sex to gender identity. It was whether the term "sex" included those with a GRC ie was sex in the EA a biological concept or a legal one. The judge ruled that it was the latter. The fact that the case was brought in relation to board representation does not mean that its ruling only applies to such instances. The ruling and the reasoning in it will - or could - apply more widely.

I quite agree with your final sentence.