What REMAIN and LEAVE voters now think of Brexit – politicalbetting.com
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You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!0 -
.
The solution is not to follow anyone who primarily posts about politics.NickPalmer said:
I suspect the algorithm writer doesn't have finely-tuned antennae, and thinks that if you show an interest in politics then you'll want the thoughts of Nigel Farage and other right-wing zealots. "But aren't there different kinds of politics?" is a question that will get dismissed as "Oh, too complicated, go away nerd".Theuniondivvie said:Fpt
Does Twitter now default to ‘For you’ (loads of advertising and right wing shite) and ‘Following’ (tweets over which one might have exerted a minimal amount of selectivity)? Annoying if so.
It's not totally wrong, anyway. I'd be more interested in what Farage is saying than e.g. what Kim Kardashian says, wouldn't you?
That way Twitter madness lies.0 -
Sadly I don't think they are going to have the opportunity?Scott_xP said:
Quite possibly the voters of Uxbridge...TheScreamingEagles said:Even disaster and shambles feature quite prominent for Leavers.
Who will flush the great Brexit turd?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/29/boris-johnson-spotted-househunting-in-oxfordshire-henley-election
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Yeah like every single post is about this.Heathener said:
You and he are just utterly, weirdly, obsessed by this topic. In a frankly really, really, nasty way.Cyclefree said:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
@CarlottaVance does not attack trans people.
This is what I mean about political point scoring - not from Cyclefree, got no issues with them - where it's just becoming about attacking politicians and people for complicated situations.0 -
Afternoon all. Parish Pump Politics Update, perhaps to save money for local Councils anyone helps run.
Greenwich Borough Council have blocked the main Thames Path route to wheelchairs and mobility scooters (and many, many types of bicycle and prams, strollers etc). Just near the O2.
At least one of their Councillors is quite proud of it:
There are two things about these types of barrier, apart from being deprecated in all the national guidelines.
1 - They are an offence under the Equality Act 2010.
2 - They cost somewhere North of 5k to put in, and it will be coming straight back out again when somebody claims under 1.
*Headdesk*. The legal solution is an accessible footpath, and suitable enforcement.
Have a good day all.0 -
Nah.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
No Mike is right.Heathener said:"But there isn’t going to be another vote" @MikeSmithson
Of COURSE there is going to be another vote.
It's just a question of when, not if.
I hate Brexit and everything it stands for - but I am very confident we will never have a vote to rejoin. Too divisive.
We'll end up like Switzerland.
Of course we will have a vote. It may include options like joining the single market.
The reason we will have it is that the country's going to continue being in a shit economic state without it.
Money always talks eventually.2 -
Heathener said:
You and he are just utterly, weirdly, obsessed by this topic. In a frankly really, really, nasty way.Cyclefree said:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
@CarlottaVance does not attack trans people.
Blatant attempt to close down the argument because it discomforts you. Go jump
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Median too.beinndearg said:
Mode can.Beibheirli_C said:
If the average grade is an A*, what are the grades above it? An average cannot be at the top of a range of more than one value.HYUFD said:
No, as Queen Mary is the lowest ranked of the Russell Group universities in league tables.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You literally said it's an A*!HYUFD said:
So even Queen Mary, one of the lowest ranked Russell Group universities requires an A grade.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Durham University requires an A* in Maths or further Maths to study it.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/g100/
YOU WERE WRONG
The average will be A* in the subject studied, like Durham
ETA: Ah, nevermind, already pointed out.0 -
No I am not and even an A at A Level for the few exceptions would still put you in the top 10% of 18 year olds for that subject, let alone an A*CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!0 -
I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?1 -
No, but when it's what we are talking about it is what we are talking about. That's politics. If, say, we are discussing raising the limit on NHS consultant pension pots to keep doctors away from the golf course, it's not helpful to say yebbut only .0001% of the population are consultants and what about the billions living on 2 USD a day?Peter_the_Punter said:
No, it's not toxic. Nor is it of much relevance to all but a tiny percentage of the population.beinndearg said:
But it is not toxic at all. The Scottish debate is ENTIRELY about men who are not in fact trans, pretending to be trans, so that they can assault women. I am happy to believe that no genuinely m to f trans person would dream of doing such a thing. You apparently are not.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@TheScreamingEagles is one of the only decent Tories left.
He seems to decide to stay out of the trans debate, because he realises how utterly toxic it is. There is hope I might yet vote for your party if you're ever in a position of power.0 -
Mate this is really embarrassing and makes you look like a coward. There's nothing wrong with being wrong about things - I am frequently as people here can explain.HYUFD said:
No I am not and even an A at A Level for the few exceptions would still put you in the top 10% of 18 year olds for that subject, let alone an A*CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!
But it makes you look really bad and childish, like I am arguing with a toddler.0 -
Oh dear, being out-pedanted on a pedantrybeinndearg said:
Pedantrymaxh said:
Pedantry alertBeibheirli_C said:
If the average grade is an A*, what are the grades above it? An average cannot be at the top of a range of more than one value.HYUFD said:
No, as Queen Mary is the lowest ranked of the Russell Group universities in league tables.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You literally said it's an A*!HYUFD said:
So even Queen Mary, one of the lowest ranked Russell Group universities requires an A grade.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Durham University requires an A* in Maths or further Maths to study it.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/g100/
YOU WERE WRONG
The average will be A* in the subject studied, like Durham
Yes it can. For discreet data, often the most (only) sensible average to use is the median or mode (you can’t have a grade halfway between an A* and an A). If most grades are A*, both the median and the mode will be this.
Discreet for discrete. Dearie me.
alert. The worst of it is I’m living up to
@Nigel_Foremain’s character assassination of me a couple of weeks ago as an illiterate buffoon. I thought I could have hidden it for longer. Next, HY will be accusing me of getting a 2:2 from an ex-poly. The shame!1 -
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
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We could discuss the wording in the headline the Mirror Group has used about Dominic Raab this morning. And the pretty serious innuendo it contains.jamesdoyle said:After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.
Which is pretty serious if you think about it for a moment. I hope they have run it past good media lawyers.
How long can Raab last?
(As for the trans debate, this pretty much says it all - https://youtu.be/FfVKtVtTKX8.)0 -
Well yes, and mean, but in both cases it is more useful to say that everyone has an A*, as must be the case.Selebian said:
Median too.beinndearg said:
Mode can.Beibheirli_C said:
If the average grade is an A*, what are the grades above it? An average cannot be at the top of a range of more than one value.HYUFD said:
No, as Queen Mary is the lowest ranked of the Russell Group universities in league tables.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You literally said it's an A*!HYUFD said:
So even Queen Mary, one of the lowest ranked Russell Group universities requires an A grade.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Durham University requires an A* in Maths or further Maths to study it.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/g100/
YOU WERE WRONG
The average will be A* in the subject studied, like Durham
ETA: Ah, nevermind, already pointed out.0 -
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?0 -
My original point that virtually all Russell Group students are in the top 10% for the subject they study stands.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Mate this is really embarrassing and makes you look like a coward. There's nothing wrong with being wrong about things - I am frequently as people here can explain.HYUFD said:
No I am not and even an A at A Level for the few exceptions would still put you in the top 10% of 18 year olds for that subject, let alone an A*CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!
But it makes you look really bad and childish, like I am arguing with a toddler.
I will concede Horse that not every Russell Group course requires an A* A level for the subject studied1 -
Re Twitter this tip is quite useful to enable you to follow the accounts you want to not whatever the algorithm pushes at you.
https://twitter.com/ny_nuria/status/1617655451512090625?s=61&t=sUzobJGgpyAaV5QPOgjNmw
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If a person born a woman transitions to being a man at 18 and is a man for 30 years, come and use the male loos, I really don't see the issue. If somebody can explain the problem and why I am incorrect then let me know.
The replies so far is that there is no way to completely transition - erh, yes there is, it's in the law. Not good enough.0 -
I’ve got the business plan written, some VCs are throwing in 10 billion…Beibheirli_C said:
In future, grades will be encrypted in blockchains so that grade inflation cannot be checked or reported on. Each student can purchase a decryption key for an additional £9,000 in student loans...CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Essentially, we are using blockchain, AI, quantum computing and a novel space launch methodology to enable a unique approach to exam grades.
You can buy in at low low price, if you move now….
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Britain’s semiconductor plan goes AWOL as US and EU splash billions
The UK’s long-awaited chips strategy remains mired in Whitehall wrangling.
https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-semiconductor-plan-goes-awol-as-us-and-eu-splash-billions/0 -
The obsession must be all on your side given your literally insane inability to accept that CV has *nothing* to say about the genuinely trans. You are like someone who thinks that objecting to blackface, is blatant racism.Heathener said:
You and he are just utterly, weirdly, obsessed by this topic. In a frankly really, really, nasty way.Cyclefree said:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
@CarlottaVance does not attack trans people.0 -
Oh for sure, I was limiting my thinking to the narrower case where the majority of grades are A* with some As (as HY and CHB are arguing about) so you get <1.5 and still get A* as the average.Endillion said:
A* = 1maxh said:
Pedantry alertBeibheirli_C said:
If the average grade is an A*, what are the grades above it? An average cannot be at the top of a range of more than one value.HYUFD said:
No, as Queen Mary is the lowest ranked of the Russell Group universities in league tables.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You literally said it's an A*!HYUFD said:
So even Queen Mary, one of the lowest ranked Russell Group universities requires an A grade.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Durham University requires an A* in Maths or further Maths to study it.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/g100/
YOU WERE WRONG
The average will be A* in the subject studied, like Durham
Yes it can. For discreet data, often the most (only) sensible average to use is the median or mode (you can’t have a grade halfway between an A* and an A). If most grades are A*, both the median and the mode will be this.
A = 2
B = 3
etc
Calculate mean.
Convert back into grade (eg, 3.7 is between B and C, closer to a C).
Will probably give you an outcome that's as least as useful as the median, and more useful than the mode (which is very prone to being affected by data artefacts).
Sometimes it's useful to know that the expected outcome from a die roll is 3.5; sometimes it's not...
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I give you great credit for your admission.HYUFD said:
My original point that virtually all Russell Group students are in the top 10% for the subject they study stands.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Mate this is really embarrassing and makes you look like a coward. There's nothing wrong with being wrong about things - I am frequently as people here can explain.HYUFD said:
No I am not and even an A at A Level for the few exceptions would still put you in the top 10% of 18 year olds for that subject, let alone an A*CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!
But it makes you look really bad and childish, like I am arguing with a toddler.
I will concede Horse that not every Russell Group course requires an A* A level for the subject studied
But it makes your first point also totally baseless, so what evidence do you have for it?0 -
Do we actually want one in that area?Nigelb said:Britain’s semiconductor plan goes AWOL as US and EU splash billions
The UK’s long-awaited chips strategy remains mired in Whitehall wrangling.
https://www.politico.eu/article/britains-semiconductor-plan-goes-awol-as-us-and-eu-splash-billions/
What will happen is that an insufficient amount of investment will be thrown at a target, and if it gets somewhere without having the rug pulled (see British Volt or the previous 6 "chip" examples) the resulting businesses will be sold off to assorted multinationals in pursuit of political dogma.
/cynicism
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I’m replying to YOUR hypothetical - as ever you seek to divert discussion from a badly drafted bill to a procession of whataboutary…..CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
And again- you don’t answer the question - it’s under 10% - so why ask a question about the treatment of a small minority of a tiny minority?
I can only presume because you don’t want to or can’t discuss the problems with the bill.1 -
Blimey. Still an intimidating presence.1 -
That’s quite an unpleasant attitude towards people’s views on Brexit, Scottish Independence, pineapple on pizza…Heathener said:
You and he are just utterly, weirdly, obsessed by this topic. In a frankly really, really, nasty way.Cyclefree said:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
@CarlottaVance does not attack trans people.
Shouting “shut up” never stopped a debate yet. Generally it prolongs them.1 -
I thought nobody had been interested enough to reply at all. They are going to need to have transitioned pretty thoroughly to pee in a male urinal in an unobtrusive manner. But nobody really gives a fuck about loos.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a person born a woman transitions to being a man at 18 and is a man for 30 years, come and use the male loos, I really don't see the issue. If somebody can explain the problem and why I am incorrect then let me know.
The replies so far is that there is no way to completely transition - erh, yes there is, it's in the law. Not good enough.0 -
No - it's because men who still have male bodies are still a risk to women. Whereas men who have surgically transitioned are not - certainly not sexually. The physical body matters when it comes to risk assessment.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
Legal transition does not change physical reality. A GRC is a legal fiction put in place to allow people with gender dysphoria to live their lives more happily. But it says nothing useful about - nor can it change - material reality or risk. Which is why the EA allows discrimination to take place on the grounds of sex against someone falling within the category of gender reassignment (whether or not they have a GRC) in certain circumstances.
The Haldane judgment has now put that equilibrium at risk. So that is another issue which will need to be worked out in the courts and/or in Parliament.
it is important to understand this. And far too many who comment on this don't.
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Not the right to protest. The right to certain kinds of disruptive protest.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:The UK is democratic Leon says.
The Government is currently trying to curtail the right to protest. What could be more undemocratic than that?
Do protesters have the right to take you prisoner and hold you to ransom? Or to invade your house? No? There are limits in civil society that are being crossed by some, such as just stop oil.
It’s right to address such behaviour, just as it is right to clamp down on football hooliganism.
I think you try to make everything black and white. Real life is much greyer.
If a protester blocks the road does a driver have the right to remove them by force? If not, why not? That’s the drivers protest about the protest.0 -
About 40% of 18 year olds go on to do A levels around 35% of whom will get an A* or A in those A levelsCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I give you great credit for your admission.HYUFD said:
My original point that virtually all Russell Group students are in the top 10% for the subject they study stands.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Mate this is really embarrassing and makes you look like a coward. There's nothing wrong with being wrong about things - I am frequently as people here can explain.HYUFD said:
No I am not and even an A at A Level for the few exceptions would still put you in the top 10% of 18 year olds for that subject, let alone an A*CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You are wrong. And you look utterly ridiculous.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most that A* will be in Computer Science anywayCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!
But it makes you look really bad and childish, like I am arguing with a toddler.
I will concede Horse that not every Russell Group course requires an A* A level for the subject studied
But it makes your first point also totally baseless, so what evidence do you have for it?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-49249684.amp
https://www.statista.com/statistics/282973/a-level-results-in-the-uk/
0 -
A minority of people are gay, we shouldn't have rights for them then? People used to say that if we gave rights to gay people, it would ruin the church, the idea of marriage and that it would bring paedophiles into close proximity of kids. That was "at the expense of the majority".CarlottaVance said:I’m replying to YOUR hypothetical - as ever you seek to divert discussion from a badly drafted bill to a procession of whataboutary…..
And again- you don’t answer the question - it’s under 10% - so why ask a question about the treatment of a small minority of a tiny minority?
I can only presume because you don’t want to or can’t discuss the problems with the bill.
I already answered the bill question as I told you.
My point was that you don't come at this from the POV of actually wanting to resolve anything, which means making lives easier for trans people and making sure we have a caring and welcoming society for all - or do you not agree?
I can see where Cyclefree is coming from because she's actually here to argue, I have very little confidence you are. When you say things like people are incapable of transitioning or that very few do, it shows not only ignorance but also the inability to actually engage with what this is actually like.
These are human beings.0 -
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
0 -
0
-
WILL A SINGLE M-EFFING HOUR GO BY ON THIS SITE WITHOUT ENDLESS POSTS ABOUT TRANS?6
-
Why do you care?CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755201 -
Well, you're in a shouty mood today, aren't you?Leon said:
You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?jamesdoyle said:After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.
Seriously. 306 comments, In total
You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS
I may not post much, but this isn't my first username on here, and I've been around a long time - practically since the beginning.
I choose to only post on subjects on which I have something useful to contribute, and which hasn't been said already. The latter wasn't a problem in the early days when there could be big time gaps between comments, and it was worth writing a decent length answer without it getting submerged and indeed lost in the tidal surge. The former is something that perhaps a number of the most prolific commenters could bear in mind.
Secondly, you seem to equate quantity with quality. Hmmm. I wonder how many lurkers who would like to participate, but are put off both because of the sheer volume of comments which virtually requires participants to have vast time to keep an eye on the discussion, and because of the reaction of people like yourself. I'd hazard a guess that if you, personally, @leon, were to reduce your contribution by 10%, it would be more than adequately made up by people who would see that there was room for their (individually) smaller contribution.
Finally, I'm not shouting at people to stop playing darts. I'm asking if the landlord could put a dartboard on the wall somewhere so actual drinkers wouldn't find themselves being peppered with your darts, being randomly thrown at the wall.5 -
No problem with talking about it. We sometimes discuss the significance of a low draw in five furlong sprints at Lingfield. Its discursive nature is part of the site's charm.beinndearg said:
No, but when it's what we are talking about it is what we are talking about. That's politics. If, say, we are discussing raising the limit on NHS consultant pension pots to keep doctors away from the golf course, it's not helpful to say yebbut only .0001% of the population are consultants and what about the billions living on 2 USD a day?Peter_the_Punter said:
No, it's not toxic. Nor is it of much relevance to all but a tiny percentage of the population.beinndearg said:
But it is not toxic at all. The Scottish debate is ENTIRELY about men who are not in fact trans, pretending to be trans, so that they can assault women. I am happy to believe that no genuinely m to f trans person would dream of doing such a thing. You apparently are not.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@TheScreamingEagles is one of the only decent Tories left.
He seems to decide to stay out of the trans debate, because he realises how utterly toxic it is. There is hope I might yet vote for your party if you're ever in a position of power.
We need not kid ourselves however that these are anything other than niche concerns, nor should we encourage unduly the faddishness which sometimes infects genuine debate.1 -
• Heavy liftingCarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
• Colour me …
• IANAE/IANAL
• Feature, not a bug
• Ad hom
• This
• It’s a view
• North of (to mean more than)
• As I’ve said passim
• One of those irregular verbs
• Late of this parish
• Nail. Head.
• Unspoofable
• …. (four dot ellipsis)
• Living rent free in x’s heads
1 -
And causes the other side to dig their heels in.Malmesbury said:
That’s quite an unpleasant attitude towards people’s views on Brexit, Scottish Independence, pineapple on pizza…Heathener said:
You and he are just utterly, weirdly, obsessed by this topic. In a frankly really, really, nasty way.Cyclefree said:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
@CarlottaVance does not attack trans people.
Shouting “shut up” never stopped a debate yet. Generally it prolongs them.0 -
That seems to be a big issue yes, it seems to come up constantly on this forum. I like you cannot see it being a large problem.Stocky said:
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
To me it seems like we're imagining scenarios that won't happen in an effort to vilify a group of people who the majority of just want to be accepted and live their life as the gender they see they are.
I just cannot see the problem.0 -
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.0 -
Because I’m interested in lots of different topics and don’t have the monomania which appears to affect you.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Why do you care?CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755201 -
I think your posts are great.jamesdoyle said:
Well, you're in a shouty mood today, aren't you?Leon said:
You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?jamesdoyle said:After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.
Seriously. 306 comments, In total
You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS
I may not post much, but this isn't my first username on here, and I've been around a long time - practically since the beginning.
I choose to only post on subjects on which I have something useful to contribute, and which hasn't been said already. The latter wasn't a problem in the early days when there could be big time gaps between comments, and it was worth writing a decent length answer without it getting submerged and indeed lost in the tidal surge. The former is something that perhaps a number of the most prolific commenters could bear in mind.
Secondly, you seem to equate quantity with quality. Hmmm. I wonder how many lurkers who would like to participate, but are put off both because of the sheer volume of comments which virtually requires participants to have vast time to keep an eye on the discussion, and because of the reaction of people like yourself. I'd hazard a guess that if you, personally, @leon, were to reduce your contribution by 10%, it would be more than adequately made up by people who would see that there was room for their (individually) smaller contribution.
Finally, I'm not shouting at people to stop playing darts. I'm asking if the landlord could put a dartboard on the wall somewhere so actual drinkers wouldn't find themselves being peppered with your darts, being randomly thrown at the wall.
I'd much rather have quality over quantity - ironically the poster attacking you spends his time on here posting nonsense in order to get attention. I'd say you're doing a lot better than him.1 -
Much of the fear of him in the GOP seems to have gone.
That doesn't bode well for Trump's chances.
GOP senators rally to defend DeSantis from Trump attacks
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3838381-gop-senators-rally-to-defend-desantis-from-trump-attacks/
...Republican senators who view Trump as a drag on candidates in last year’s midterm elections, say it’s up to DeSantis to decide whether to run for the White House and he doesn’t owe any special deference to Trump, who claimed it would be “great act of disloyalty” to challenge him for the party’s nomination.
“He ran an impressive reelection campaign for governor from an important state. It looks to me like he’s polling well. I think we need some new blood and I think he’d probably qualify,” Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said of DeSantis’s possible bid for the White House.
Cornyn barely stifled a laugh when asked about Trump’s assertion that DeSantis would commit a great act of disloyalty by running against him.
“No, no, I don’t think so,” he said. ..0 -
Why do you get so angry about these issues? I just don't understand the mind of somebody like that, you go looking for issuesCarlottaVance said:
Because I’m interested in lots of different topics and don’t have the monomania which appears to affect you.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Why do you care?CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755200 -
The reason I referred to genitalia was because we were discussing loos. Perhaps a trans woman doesn't feel like they want to use urinals anymore if they have transitioned in that way.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.0 -
Do grow up, you come across as prepubescent. People with erectile penises, call them whatever you want, are capable of raping people with vaginas and will in some cases lie and dissemble to obtain an opportunity to do so. It is that simple.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?0 -
Oh I care.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Why do you care?CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/1620128829661675520
Please let's stop talking about 'this moment in time' when we really mean 'now'.1 -
And, as far as we know, nobody in the debate actually is trans....Anabobazina said:WILL A SINGLE M-EFFING HOUR GO BY ON THIS SITE WITHOUT ENDLESS POSTS ABOUT TRANS?
Later peeps!2 -
This sounds exactly what Sturgeon said a few weeks ago, and the "imagined scenario" then promptly happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
That seems to be a big issue yes, it seems to come up constantly on this forum. I like you cannot see it being a large problem.Stocky said:
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
To me it seems like we're imagining scenarios that won't happen in an effort to vilify a group of people who the majority of just want to be accepted and live their life as the gender they see they are.
I just cannot see the problem.1 -
If you still have male genitalia and might walk round naked in the shower block, for instance, that may be upsetting to someone.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?1 -
And a man can walk into a single-sex space and do that now. Has nothing to do with trans people.beinndearg said:
Do grow up, you come across as prepubescent. People with erectile penises, call them whatever you want, are capable of raping people with vaginas and will in some cases lie and dissemble to obtain an opportunity to do so. It is that simple.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?0 -
Alternatively: off you jolly well fuck, and set up your own blog. Sortedjamesdoyle said:
Well, you're in a shouty mood today, aren't you?Leon said:
You are one of the most boring, pointless, invisible posters on here. Why the fuck should anyone give a toss what you think?jamesdoyle said:After avoiding this place all morning because of trans arguments and ChatPT/AI waffle, I had faint hopes a new thread would clear the decks. No, of course not, what Was I thinking.
For the love of all that's holy, can we not just having a standing discussion thread for each of those and shunt them off there so non-obsessives can actually find the interesting topics.
Seriously. 306 comments, In total
You’re like a stranger bursting into a local boozer and shouting at the regulars: I DEMAND YOU STOP PLAYING DARTS
I may not post much, but this isn't my first username on here, and I've been around a long time - practically since the beginning.
I choose to only post on subjects on which I have something useful to contribute, and which hasn't been said already. The latter wasn't a problem in the early days when there could be big time gaps between comments, and it was worth writing a decent length answer without it getting submerged and indeed lost in the tidal surge. The former is something that perhaps a number of the most prolific commenters could bear in mind.
Secondly, you seem to equate quantity with quality. Hmmm. I wonder how many lurkers who would like to participate, but are put off both because of the sheer volume of comments which virtually requires participants to have vast time to keep an eye on the discussion, and because of the reaction of people like yourself. I'd hazard a guess that if you, personally, @leon, were to reduce your contribution by 10%, it would be more than adequately made up by people who would see that there was room for their (individually) smaller contribution.
Finally, I'm not shouting at people to stop playing darts. I'm asking if the landlord could put a dartboard on the wall somewhere so actual drinkers wouldn't find themselves being peppered with your darts, being randomly thrown at the wall.-1 -
Biologically we die the sex we are born. People do transition gender, but (for perfectly understandable reasons) most MTF do not have genital surgery. Which of those facts do you dispute? If your views on the Scottish GRR Bill as so clear, would you mind repeating them, or is your comfort zone just “bash a Tory”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
When you say things like people are incapable of transitioning or that very few do, it shows not only ignorance but also the inability to actually engage with what this is actually like.CarlottaVance said:I’m replying to YOUR hypothetical - as ever you seek to divert discussion from a badly drafted bill to a procession of whataboutary…..
And again- you don’t answer the question - it’s under 10% - so why ask a question about the treatment of a small minority of a tiny minority?
I can only presume because you don’t want to or can’t discuss the problems with the bill.
0 -
The most ludicrous and trite is "feeding two birds with one scone" lol. Other than it's absurdity, it is likely to feed the debate (if you excuse the pun) on the correct pronunciation of scone, which of course all PBers will know is NOT the phonetic way.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Why do you care?CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755200 -
We're talking about single-sex spaces.Driver said:
This sounds exactly what Sturgeon said a few weeks ago, and the "imagined scenario" then promptly happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
That seems to be a big issue yes, it seems to come up constantly on this forum. I like you cannot see it being a large problem.Stocky said:
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
To me it seems like we're imagining scenarios that won't happen in an effort to vilify a group of people who the majority of just want to be accepted and live their life as the gender they see they are.
I just cannot see the problem.
A man can walk into a loo and rape a woman today - has nothing to do with trans people.
Most trans people don't rape women - just as most gay people aren't paedophiles.
But the language is identical to that we used to hear back in the 80s and the 90s.0 -
As far as I'm concerned if a woman changes gender to a man and uses men's loos then why would I care and how would I know? Who looks at other people in the toilets anyway - I certainly don't.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
The reason I referred to genitalia was because we were discussing loos. Perhaps a trans woman doesn't feel like they want to use urinals anymore if they have transitioned in that way.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.1 -
So a woman that has transitioned to being a man for thirty years is never allowed to go into a single-sex only space, is that what you think?CarlottaVance said:
Biologically we die the sex we are born. People do transition gender, but (for perfectly understandable reasons) most MTF do not have genital surgery. Which of those facts do you dispute? If your views on the Scottish GRR Bill as so clear, would you mind repeating them, or is your comfort zone just “bash a Tory”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
When you say things like people are incapable of transitioning or that very few do, it shows not only ignorance but also the inability to actually engage with what this is actually like.CarlottaVance said:I’m replying to YOUR hypothetical - as ever you seek to divert discussion from a badly drafted bill to a procession of whataboutary…..
And again- you don’t answer the question - it’s under 10% - so why ask a question about the treatment of a small minority of a tiny minority?
I can only presume because you don’t want to or can’t discuss the problems with the bill.0 -
Most Met police officers aren't rapists. Didn't stop the Sarah Everard case receiving far more attention than other cases.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
We're talking about single-sex spaces.Driver said:
This sounds exactly what Sturgeon said a few weeks ago, and the "imagined scenario" then promptly happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
That seems to be a big issue yes, it seems to come up constantly on this forum. I like you cannot see it being a large problem.Stocky said:
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
To me it seems like we're imagining scenarios that won't happen in an effort to vilify a group of people who the majority of just want to be accepted and live their life as the gender they see they are.
I just cannot see the problem.
A man can walk into a loo and rape a woman today - has nothing to do with trans people.
Most trans people don't rape women - just as most gay people aren't paedophiles.
But the language is identical to that we used to hear back in the 80s and the 90s.0 -
Nothing to do with trans people is exactly what I am saying. You are simply wrong anyway. There's a thoroughly well documented case of a transwoman raping a woman on an NHS ward. If he had been a man he would have been physically ejected from the ward and it would not have happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
And a man can walk into a single-sex space and do that now. Has nothing to do with trans people.beinndearg said:
Do grow up, you come across as prepubescent. People with erectile penises, call them whatever you want, are capable of raping people with vaginas and will in some cases lie and dissemble to obtain an opportunity to do so. It is that simple.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?0 -
Well, it will happen obviously. But men can and do assault women in women's loos now anyway. The loo argument is not a strong one IMO.Driver said:
This sounds exactly what Sturgeon said a few weeks ago, and the "imagined scenario" then promptly happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
That seems to be a big issue yes, it seems to come up constantly on this forum. I like you cannot see it being a large problem.Stocky said:
As far as I am aware a man has always been able to legally enter a woman's loo and vice versa. Quite a few times I've been in men's loo and seen a woman enter (presumably due to a queue for the women's) and go into a cubicle. I don't think this has ever been illegal.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I'll ask again:
if you are a male gender who transitioned to female at 18 years old and you have been of the female gender for 30 years, should you be able to enter female-only spaces?
If not, why not? What issue is it causing you?
I suppose those worried about this issue say that men will pretend to be a woman (i.e. by disguise) in order to violate women in a women's loo - but this seems a bit of a stretch to me. They can now - why bother with the disguise - and of course such a man isn't transgender.
To me it seems like we're imagining scenarios that won't happen in an effort to vilify a group of people who the majority of just want to be accepted and live their life as the gender they see they are.
I just cannot see the problem.0 -
At my office we just have loos that everyone can use, doesn't seem to have caused an issue yet. I really don't care who I am in the loo with, if they're having a look at my cock then go ahead lolStocky said:
As far as I'm concerned if a woman changes gender to a man and uses men's loos then why would I care and how would I know? Who looks at other people in the toilets anyway - I certainly don't.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
The reason I referred to genitalia was because we were discussing loos. Perhaps a trans woman doesn't feel like they want to use urinals anymore if they have transitioned in that way.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.1 -
• Heavy liftingMattW said:Afternoon all. Parish Pump Politics Update, perhaps to save money for local Councils anyone helps run.
Greenwich Borough Council have blocked the main Thames Path route to wheelchairs and mobility scooters (and many, many types of bicycle and prams, strollers etc). Just near the O2.
At least one of their Councillors is quite proud of it:
There are two things about these types of barrier, apart from being deprecated in all the national guidelines.
1 - They are an offence under the Equality Act 2010.
2 - They cost somewhere North of 5k to put in, and it will be coming straight back out again when somebody claims under 1.
*Headdesk*. The legal solution is an accessible footpath, and suitable enforcement.
Have a good day all.
• Colour me …
• IANAE/IANAL
• Feature, not a bug
• Ad hom
• This
• It’s a view
• North of (to mean more than)
• As I’ve said passim
• One of those irregular verbs
• Late of this parish
• Nail. Head.
• Unspoofable
• …. (four dot ellipsis)
• Living rent free in x’s heads
1 -
And there are cases of gay people being paedophiles. We don't limit their rights because some people are criminals.beinndearg said:
Nothing to do with trans people is exactly what I am saying. You are simply wrong anyway. There's a thoroughly well documented case of a transwoman raping a woman on an NHS ward. If he had been a man he would have been physically ejected from the ward and it would not have happened.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
And a man can walk into a single-sex space and do that now. Has nothing to do with trans people.beinndearg said:
Do grow up, you come across as prepubescent. People with erectile penises, call them whatever you want, are capable of raping people with vaginas and will in some cases lie and dissemble to obtain an opportunity to do so. It is that simple.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So there we are, it's not about the bill, it's about you not liking trans people. Not surprised.CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?0 -
I'm not sure of the biological facts, but my feeling is that feeding a scone to a bird could be construed as acting violently towards them. Especially if its one of my dead grandmother's scones.CarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755200 -
See below for a laugh. Watch from 02:10:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
At my office we just have loos that everyone can use, doesn't seem to have caused an issue yet. I really don't care who I am in the loo with, if they're having a look at my cock then go ahead lolStocky said:
As far as I'm concerned if a woman changes gender to a man and uses men's loos then why would I care and how would I know? Who looks at other people in the toilets anyway - I certainly don't.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
The reason I referred to genitalia was because we were discussing loos. Perhaps a trans woman doesn't feel like they want to use urinals anymore if they have transitioned in that way.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Mw1NY9O4c0 -
The bizarre position of people like @Heathener and @CorrectHorseBattery seems to be, simultaneously, the trans issue is so important we must overturn 300,000 years of accepted human behaviour and believe that biological men are women if they say so, with all that entails, and AT THE SAME TIME this change is so trivial and unimportant we should not even talk about it, and those that do so are obsessive bigots
Quite insane, and a little bit sinister9 -
Will do - and hope you are well Stocky.Stocky said:
See below for a laugh. Watch from 02:10:CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
At my office we just have loos that everyone can use, doesn't seem to have caused an issue yet. I really don't care who I am in the loo with, if they're having a look at my cock then go ahead lolStocky said:
As far as I'm concerned if a woman changes gender to a man and uses men's loos then why would I care and how would I know? Who looks at other people in the toilets anyway - I certainly don't.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
The reason I referred to genitalia was because we were discussing loos. Perhaps a trans woman doesn't feel like they want to use urinals anymore if they have transitioned in that way.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Mw1NY9O4c0 -
Nuke this whole idea from orbit. It’s the only way to be sureCarlottaVance said:Death to Idiom!
https://twitter.com/jowyang/status/16201288296616755203 -
On the trans debate there ought to be a clear distinction between trauma and discomfort.
Clearly there are some scenarios where women only spaces need to be protected where there is a risk of exacerbating serious trauma. That is good safeguarding after all.
I’m less persuaded by the argument that some women might feel uncomfortable with trans people using the same loo as them. It smacks slightly of the kind of prejudice that openly gay men used to face from other men. “I wouldn’t want to share a loo/bedroom/barracks with them” etc.
I haven’t studied it in detail but I’m entirely willing to believe that the Scottish Bill is as badly drafted as most legislation these days and I have a lot of sympathy for the way that the views of women’s groups have been marginalised in the debate.3 -
Sadly exactly right. The correct decision in a situation where either decision was going to be divisive and bad. To go for the democratic option was right.Leon said:
I’m a Leaver and I think it has been a shambles and a disaster, in terms of the handling and the execution. Who could think otherwise? It has been a national humiliation, and the Tories deserve to be hurled into electoral perdition for this (and they will).. But I would vote Leave again, tomorrow - with great reluctance (as I did in 2026) - and for the same reasons. Sovereignty and democracy. The EU is still fundamentally undemocratic in a way the UK is notTheScreamingEagles said:Even disaster and shambles feature quite prominent for Leavers.
Who will flush the great Brexit turd?
Indeed the imminent thrashing of the Tories shows Brexit at work. We are governed by fools, frauds and flailing idiots. We are going to give them a terrible spanking and they will be suitably chided by this traumatic defeat. We cannot do that to the EU Commission. We cannot hand Ursula’s petite derrière to her on a Belgian plate
Thus: Brexit. The right decision
1 -
No, that's not what I have said at all.Leon said:The bizarre position of people like @Heathener and @CorrectHorseBattery seems to be, simultaneously, the trans issue is so important we must overturn 300,000 years of accepted human behaviour and believe that biological men are women if they say so, with all that entails, and AT THE SAME TIME this change is so trivial and unimportant we should not even talk about it, and those that do so are obsessive bigots
Quite insane, and a little bit sinister
I said trans rights are an issue that won't swing an election, does not matter to 99% of voters. Plenty of evidence to support that.
I also said that trans people are not a threat, on the whole not criminals, should be treated with love and respect. I also said that this issue is complicated and difficult.
Please don't put words in my mouth again, I know you are just doing it for attention but consider this your warning.0 -
If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.0
-
I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.
The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.
In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.1 -
AHAHAHAHAHACorrectHorseBattery3 said:
No, that's not what I have said at all.Leon said:The bizarre position of people like @Heathener and @CorrectHorseBattery seems to be, simultaneously, the trans issue is so important we must overturn 300,000 years of accepted human behaviour and believe that biological men are women if they say so, with all that entails, and AT THE SAME TIME this change is so trivial and unimportant we should not even talk about it, and those that do so are obsessive bigots
Quite insane, and a little bit sinister
I said trans rights are an issue that won't swing an election, does not matter to 99% of voters. Plenty of evidence to support that.
I also said that trans people are not a threat, on the whole not criminals, should be treated with love and respect. I also said that this issue is complicated and difficult.
Please don't put words in my mouth again, I know you are just doing it for attention but consider this your warning.0 -
Trigger warning next time please.Jonathan said:
Blimey. Still an intimidating presence.2 -
These are criminals, it has got nothing to do with trans people, as I keep saying.CarlottaVance said:I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.
The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.
In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.
A man can violate a woman by going into a sex-only space today. They are prevented/disinclined because of the law.
If you make a law specifically to target trans people then that's discrimination.
Just like if you made a law that said we must protect young people from gay paedophiles so gay people can never work near children.0 -
Don't address the points I actually make - just shout into the void about GPT.Leon said:
AHAHAHAHAHACorrectHorseBattery3 said:
No, that's not what I have said at all.Leon said:The bizarre position of people like @Heathener and @CorrectHorseBattery seems to be, simultaneously, the trans issue is so important we must overturn 300,000 years of accepted human behaviour and believe that biological men are women if they say so, with all that entails, and AT THE SAME TIME this change is so trivial and unimportant we should not even talk about it, and those that do so are obsessive bigots
Quite insane, and a little bit sinister
I said trans rights are an issue that won't swing an election, does not matter to 99% of voters. Plenty of evidence to support that.
I also said that trans people are not a threat, on the whole not criminals, should be treated with love and respect. I also said that this issue is complicated and difficult.
Please don't put words in my mouth again, I know you are just doing it for attention but consider this your warning.
Good day and hope you are well otherwise.0 -
@AndrewSparrow: No 10 refuses to deny Sunak given informal warning about Raab's treatment of officials before he made him deputy PM… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/16207825227402322000
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I'd make another point: these sorts of stiles (I call them 'squeeze stiles') can also be very difficult to get through with a large backpack on. Say, like someone who's walked the Thames Path for nearly 200 miles carries.MattW said:Afternoon all. Parish Pump Politics Update, perhaps to save money for local Councils anyone helps run.
Greenwich Borough Council have blocked the main Thames Path route to wheelchairs and mobility scooters (and many, many types of bicycle and prams, strollers etc). Just near the O2.
At least one of their Councillors is quite proud of it:
(snip tweet)
There are two things about these types of barrier, apart from being deprecated in all the national guidelines.
1 - They are an offence under the Equality Act 2010.
2 - They cost somewhere North of 5k to put in, and it will be coming straight back out again when somebody claims under 1.
*Headdesk*. The legal solution is an accessible footpath, and suitable enforcement.
Have a good day all.
There're some really bad examples further east along the Kent Coast, on the Saxon Shore Way. From memory, near Gillingham, but I might be wrong. But the worst is a stretch of the Speyside Way in Scotland, where the landowner has put these really nasty sort of stiles every 100 metres (or so it feels). For miles...
https://www.speysideway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/rambler.jpg
https://www.speysideway.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/path.jpg1 -
I agree with you - don't get the impression that I am in any way a defender of the GRR bill.CarlottaVance said:
I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.Stocky said:
I agree with you in general but completely transitioning gender does not IMO require surgery to create fake genitalia. Gender is a matter of identity. This is what differentiates it from sex. If you argue in this way you are almost encouraging these surgeries aren't you?CarlottaVance said:
I asked your opinion on the Scottish GRR bill - which Sturgeon is responsible for. The answer to your question will depend on the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Nicola Sturgeon is not responsible for women using single sex spaces which is what you asked me.CarlottaVance said:
So, no quote of an attack by me on trans people. No acceptance that the politician leading the proposed change is responsible for the problem, but you’re quite happy to vilify me to score points.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I already posted my views on this topic days ago. I think the commentary on this bill from you and others is entirely cynical and not about safety or anything else. We know this because you keep saying about how this is Sturgeon's big failure, that is what this is really about.CarlottaVance said:
Show me a post where I have attacked trans people.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Yet every post you make seems to attack them.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, and I’ve said so many times. They already have rights under the law.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:@CarlottaVance do you believe trans people deserve our love and compassion and do you think they are deserving of rights under the law?
The discussion is about a badly drafted Scottish Bill that could compromise women’s rights to single sex spaces established by the Equality Act which is a U.K. wide matter and the responsibility of the U.K. government.
What’s your view on the Scottish GRR Bill?
Let's be honest, if the Tories were proposing this bill you'd be telling us how wonderful it was. You are the most partisan poster on this entire site, actually worse than HYUFD.
Once again, directly to ad hom.
Why is a position supported by Labour and SNP MPs a Tory one?
What do YOU think of the Scottish GRR Bill?
Or don’t you have an opinion?
This issue is incredibly complicated, there is no perfect solution or answer. But I start from the position of love and compassion, not trying to vilify people to score points.
Answer my question: if a man has transitioned completely to being a woman (gender), can they EVER use single sex spaces?
And if not, why not? What is the issue?
How many trans women do you think “completely transition” to having no male genitalia?
I think the loo issue is a bit of a distraction from the main issue - we allow someone to change gender but must not allow this to be conflated with changing sex.
The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.
In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.
0 -
You don’t understand the GRR Bill, do you?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
These are criminals, it has got nothing to do with trans people, as I keep saying.CarlottaVance said:I agree - genital surgery is difficult, irreversible and has high complication rates - which is why in particular children should not have access to it, or be pushed onto a pathway that leads to it. The Swedish approach of “wait and see, pushing neither transition nor desistance” seems the most humane.
The issue we are then left with is that there are male bodied trans people and there are men who will exploit loopholes to gain access to single sex spaces.
In the discussion it is striking how often defenders of the GRR bill (which ignores the complication created by this issue) launch into hypotheticals about toilets rather than address the legal issues the bill raises.
1 -
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
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I never even defended the GRR bill0
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I’m here to discuss the GRR bill, not a procession of increasingly unlikely whataboutary….CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
1 -
You tried to give me a WARNING. I am allowed to laugh. How are you going to follow through? Fly to Bangkok and hit me with a haddock?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Don't address the points I actually make - just shout into the void about GPT.Leon said:
AHAHAHAHAHACorrectHorseBattery3 said:
No, that's not what I have said at all.Leon said:The bizarre position of people like @Heathener and @CorrectHorseBattery seems to be, simultaneously, the trans issue is so important we must overturn 300,000 years of accepted human behaviour and believe that biological men are women if they say so, with all that entails, and AT THE SAME TIME this change is so trivial and unimportant we should not even talk about it, and those that do so are obsessive bigots
Quite insane, and a little bit sinister
I said trans rights are an issue that won't swing an election, does not matter to 99% of voters. Plenty of evidence to support that.
I also said that trans people are not a threat, on the whole not criminals, should be treated with love and respect. I also said that this issue is complicated and difficult.
Please don't put words in my mouth again, I know you are just doing it for attention but consider this your warning.
Good day and hope you are well otherwise.
Otherwise, a good day to you too. We are through January, be of good cheer. And consider my earlier suggestion that you might have SAD. It is a real condition0 -
I've already posted my thoughts on the GRR bill.CarlottaVance said:
I’m here to discuss the GRR bill, not a procession of increasingly unlikely whataboutary….CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
Your scenarios are just as unlikely to occur as mine, you just don't like it because I've proved you wrong.0 -
If they've had the chop, then yes.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
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Prisons are segregated by sex not gender (this must be true as the concept of gender wasn't invented till the 50s). Same with sport. The person you cite is a woman who identifies as a man i.e. she changed gender.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
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Lol. I went to a Poly, and was happy to do so, in spite of a phenomenally high IQ (he says with the modesty of a certain poster known by three initials) and having received offers from four Russell Group unis ( I don't think they were called that back then?), which failed to come to climax due to having far too good a time at my sixth form to be bothered about doing work for my A-levels.Simon_Peach said:
@HYUFD is having a shocker this morning… anyway, good to know that we can add “ex polytechnics” to his list of deplorables…CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
You literally said it's an A*!HYUFD said:
So even Queen Mary, one of the lowest ranked Russell Group universities requires an A grade.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
https://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/coursefinder/courses/2023/digital-and-technology-solutions-software-engineer/HYUFD said:
No it isn't, check Russell Group universities admissions criteria nowCorrectHorseBattery3 said:
Utter nonsense. Goodness me.HYUFD said:No it isn't, only the top 10% get A* grades at A Level or got A* grades (now 1s) at GCSE.
Virtually every Russell Group student has an A* in the subject they study now
Grades AAB at A-Level. Alternatively, A-Level grades ABB including either A-Level Mathematics or Computer Science. Excludes General Studies and Critical Thinking.
Oh dear.
Durham University requires an A* in Maths or further Maths to study it.
https://www.durham.ac.uk/study/courses/g100/
YOU WERE WRONG
Over the years I have interviewed and employed people from a great variety of institutions. Many of these have been from the lowly institutions that HY looks down on, and some whom had what he would regard as "Mickey Mouse degrees".
I am highly confident that very few of them were as inarticulate or as generally stupid as he.1 -
Would women be happy with a "man" being in their space?Stocky said:
Prisons are segregated by sex not gender (this must be true as the concept of gender wasn't invented till the 50s). Same with sport. The person you cite is a woman who identifies as a man i.e. she changed gender.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
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I’m not discussing scenarios - you are - I’m discussing a bill which you claim to have opinions on but appear to have forgotten.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I've already posted my thoughts on the GRR bill.CarlottaVance said:
I’m here to discuss the GRR bill, not a procession of increasingly unlikely whataboutary….CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
Your scenarios are just as unlikely to occur as mine, you just don't like it because I've proved you wrong.
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Then why do you attack me for criticising it?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I never even defended the GRR bill
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You're welcome to go back through my posts. I am not going to do that for you when you won't engage in any of the points I make.CarlottaVance said:
I’m not discussing scenarios - you are - I’m discussing a bill which you claim to have opinions on but appear to have forgotten.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
I've already posted my thoughts on the GRR bill.CarlottaVance said:
I’m here to discuss the GRR bill, not a procession of increasingly unlikely whataboutary….CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
@CarlottaVance thoughts?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:If a woman transitioned to being a man at 20 years old and committed a crime at 80 years old, they should go to a women-only prison, I am sure people will be consistent.
Your scenarios are just as unlikely to occur as mine, you just don't like it because I've proved you wrong.0 -
My son studied Computer Science at Cambridge where he is now doing his PhD. He did not do computer science at A level or GCSE and was not asked for a single A* by Cambridge in any subject. In fact Cambridge gave him his lowest offer of all the Unis he applied for. It might have something to do with him winning the Cambridge University Computer Science prize when he was in the lower sixth though.HYUFD said:
The standard offer actually includes an A* and for most they will get an A* in Computer Science anyway if studying itCorrectHorseBattery3 said:@HYUFD Nottingham:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/ugstudy/course/Computer-Science-BSc
AAA if you have an A in computer science/computing
You are wrong!3 -
I haven't, I oppose your views on single-sex spaces and trans people generally.CarlottaVance said:
Then why do you attack me for criticising it?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:I never even defended the GRR bill
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The vast majority of people who have a couple of beers over the limit can drive home perfectly safely without causing an accident therefore we do not need anti drink drive laws.CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
So a woman that has transitioned to being a man for thirty years is never allowed to go into a single-sex only space, is that what you think?CarlottaVance said:
Biologically we die the sex we are born. People do transition gender, but (for perfectly understandable reasons) most MTF do not have genital surgery. Which of those facts do you dispute? If your views on the Scottish GRR Bill as so clear, would you mind repeating them, or is your comfort zone just “bash a Tory”?CorrectHorseBattery3 said:
When you say things like people are incapable of transitioning or that very few do, it shows not only ignorance but also the inability to actually engage with what this is actually like.CarlottaVance said:I’m replying to YOUR hypothetical - as ever you seek to divert discussion from a badly drafted bill to a procession of whataboutary…..
And again- you don’t answer the question - it’s under 10% - so why ask a question about the treatment of a small minority of a tiny minority?
I can only presume because you don’t want to or can’t discuss the problems with the bill.
The vast majority of people who work on building sites do so safely and ensure they work in a safe responsible way so we can bin health and safety on building sites.
The vast majority of sexual relationships between kids aged under 16 are with other kids under 16 so might as well remove that age of consent thing.
The above is clearly absurd but there need to be laws to protect the well behaved or sensible majority from a tiny minority who will do bad things.
The vast majority of trans people are clearly not rapists however it’s also clear that women have the right to feel safe and to know that if they are in a space where they are vulnerable then the chances of bad things happening to them are reduced - it’s not a perfect answer to ban self identifying trans people from certain spaces but the only other way to ensure women feel safe is to ensure every loo, changing cubicle, cell, prison shower is individual and lockable which is clearly not remotely practical so the laws need to be set to protect women for want of a perfect solution.
I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with trans people, I cannot imagine how grim it is to face some of the daily and lifelong issues for people who genuinely feel they weren’t born in the “correct body” but I also love my mother, my sisters and my female friends and so again, until there is a perfect solution then there needs to be laws that are perhaps unnecessarily overbearing for the lawful majority to protect from the unlawful minority. That’s life.1
This discussion has been closed.