politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After all the hype from UKIP about the 5pm defection – it’s
Comments
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Four major issues:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Y0kel, thank you for that post.
I know they had lots of US gear, but hadn't they been trained for some time as well? I'm just surprised that they were beaten back so swiftly early on, and that they abandoned so much gear.
-Leadership at mid officer level up
-The army rarely operate as an army which is what they needed to be in the conventional phases of the Sunni insurgency (some conventional operations are in progress by IS at the moment) , they spent too long being a policing unit.
-Lack of operational integration.
-Lack of combat cohesion
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And there's all that popcorn he hasn't been able to eat:TGOHF said:Hugh not happy with Cam parking his tank on labours last remaining lawn - the NHS.
Scotland independence
Cameron resignation
UKIP 5pm Defection
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Ukip showed their biggest problem today, they are not a political party, they are Nigel's party, he makes all the decisions and rules and arranges daft press conferences.0
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I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?0 -
I quite agree, but the Libya campaign was (wrongly in my opinion) undermining the power of the Libyan state in favour of an insurgency. Here our aim should be to strengthen the power of the two states (Syria and Iraq) against an insurgency. Very different situations, very different tactics. Adding further complication, we don't even want to do this, because we're obsessed with regime change in Syria, and we want to break up Iraq. Therefore our aim here is to stop the nasty rebels, whilst ignoring the regimes, whilst helping the 'nice' rebels (bearing in mind these groups are totally interchangeable). It's an utter clusterfuck.saddened said:
They still die when you bomb them and to be frank the more the better. If we can inflict mass casualties it will deter jihad tourists.Luckyguy1983 said:
Except in this instance ISIS *are* the rebels.SeanT said:
I think the intention (quite rightly) is to kill as many of these c*nts out there, as possible, so this won't become an issue. Suck in all the teenie jihadists from Britain, then slaughter them in-country.Itajai said:Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, some months ago it was reported some ISIS louts played football with the severed head of the enemy (probably a policeman or soldier).
It's thoroughly barbaric. There remains no guarantee they will be turned back. We (us, the West generally and the regional powers) cannot simply operate on cruise control. Iraq has reiterated it wants no foreign soldiers on the ground. Fine, but the Iraqi army needs to start pulling its weight.
How long before it transpires that if any ISIS member is caught, say by the SAS, he´ll need to be tried in the UK and then claim asylum. His yooman rights you see. ECHR and all that. Labour will scream blue murder. The BBC will omit to mention it was Labour who brought this in, etc...
Incidentally, for those who pooh-pooh the idea of air campaigns, I've just read the rather fine REBELS by Aris Roussinos, a Brit hack who went to the front line in Libya, Sudan, Mali, Syria.
He explains very eloquently - as an eye-witness - how the Anglo-French NATO air strikes on Gaddafi entirely turned the war there, in favour of some rag-tag rebels. Yes, Libya has since descended into chaos (tho it is arguably still a better place without Gaddafi), but the military lesson holds true.
Air power terrifies and obliterates. We have it. ISIS do not. We have to use it, and hope the locals can then exploit the advantage.
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Oh and the Tories make lots of decisions outside the Quad don't they? This the Tory Party that no longer opens the conference floor to motions from it's membership. UKIP does!currystar said:Ukip showed their biggest problem today, they are not a political party, they are Nigel's party, he makes all the decisions and rules and arranges daft press conferences.
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Eh, I'm a sucker for autotuned mixes of this sort, but it was a bit too extreme at the 'Tories are evil' rather than 'The Tories are wrong' spectrum, you know, where people get so caught up in pure hatred to remember to actually be funny or insightful as well, as to the core audience the hatred makes it funny. I'd like to see a Tory one of Ed M in a similar stlye, painting him as some unrepentant Stalinist or something.SquareRoot said:0 -
Freggles said:
Based on...?ZenPagan said:
What has funding proper healthcare got to do with not looking at the money currently spent on the NHS.
For starters I am pretty sure that there is a huge level of waste in the NHS and that if we analysed spending we would find a huge proportion is not actually spent on health care at all but other stuff that can actually be trimmed without affecting primary care in the least.
Payments to GPs, as well as payments to hospitals, are racheted down every year - so they have to do more and more to get the same money. Easy savings have been made already. The only way to make a big saving would be to make a fundamental change such as removing the market as a minimum, or removing the purchaser/provider split. Though that would just make it like the Scottish system and their outcomes and costs are very similar to ours.Secondly a lot of things done on the National health frankly probably shouldnt be. Tattoo removal springs to mind as a prime example. There is also plenty of other ways that can be looked at such as co payments etc that would keep healthcare within reach for people while allowing less to be spent.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2567.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154
The NHS is good value for money (source: Commonwealth Fund) and any savings that can be made are dwarfed by the demographic tide. Believe it or not there are a lot of intelligent people trying to do more for the money and it's just not simple.
Ok dr Fox has confirmed my assertion but here is a bit of non medical expenditure from my local hospital for you (yes anecdote).
My local hospital has in the grounds a social club for the medical staff including a subsidised bar. I have been there on several occasions on invitation by people I know there and every time I go it is full of people even midweek (which is probably unsurprising as they are selling decent beer at around 1.50 a pint)
I have no objections to people having a good time. I do object however to my tax money subsidising it. That building could be used for medical purposes quite easily as it is quite a large building. or the land could be sold of. Even if nothing were done they could probably save a couple of hundred thousand a year by not subsidising it.
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UKIP don't whip their councillors either, so I'm told. Now they have more councils where they are among or are the main opposition, it'll be interesting to see if that policy remains when put under pressure. Or if they are the controlling group in an authority even. An interesting test.manofkent2014 said:
Oh and the Tories make lots of decisions outside the Quad don't they? This the Tory Party that no longer opens the conference floor to motions from it's membership. UKIP does!currystar said:Ukip showed their biggest problem today, they are not a political party, they are Nigel's party, he makes all the decisions and rules and arranges daft press conferences.
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Cobblers, it was a leaders speech to conference, not everything need be in it, but I Ed's case to forget the economy was dunderhead stuff.. Are you a party worker sent on here to toe the party line?manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
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Listening to Cameron's speech, Michael Gove's fingerprints are all over it.
Cameron might be firing the shots, but our Michael is supplying the ammo.0 -
Climate Change?? You mean politics masquerading as science? Thought it had been debunked and gone the way of the dinosaur.manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
Apart from spoilt kids like Zac G, who still believes in it.
Anyway, if it worries you, ask Millipede to go strong. Then explain why everyone´s fuel bills are going to keep a bunch of pseudo-scientists in the comfort and international jamborees they are accustomed to. They have decided they are 579% sure you know. Send the cheque to their next jamboree in some exotic beach location. They´ll be either in the 5* hotel or First Class airport lounge.0 -
Did anyone else see Shapps dreadful appearance on Boulton? He was terribly weak on Osborne's economic plan. Waffled all the way through it. His uncertainty made it look quite implausible,0
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It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !0 -
Farage won't be put off by the fussy thoughts of the south - he'll march north. If UKIP are to strike it big it'll be at the expense of Labour.
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The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.0 -
What did Cameron say about immigration, anyway?manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?0 -
manofkent2014 said:
UKIP don't whip their councillors either, so I'm told. Now they have more councils where they are among or are the main opposition, it'll be interesting to see if that policy remains when put under pressure. Or if they are the controlling group in an authority even. An interesting test.currystar said:
Oh and the Tories make lots of decisions outside the Quad don't they? This the Tory Party that no longer opens the conference floor to motions from it's membership. UKIP does!
I'm not just talking about the leaders speech. I'm talking about throughout the conference. There was no session on Climate Change & Energy and no session on Business. How the hell can a party (any party) be considered seriously as a Government if it hasn't got policies for Business and Energy (especially when Miliband has got this faux price freeze policy). Are the Tories now leaving it up to Cable and Davey to tell them their policies?SquareRoot said:
Cobblers, it was a leaders speech to conference, not everything need be in it, but I Ed's case to forget the economy was dunderhead stuff.. Are you a party worker sent on here to toe the party line?manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
PS And to try and accuse me of being a Labour party worker is probably the most absurd allegation ever fired at me on here!0 -
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The point is he still uses his dead son for emotive political advantage knowing his opponents cannot attack him on this.Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
He knows the Tories are not believed on the NHS. So he wraps himself , sadly, around his son.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Like the Republicans cannot support Obamacare , however, marginally socialised it is.
Luckily, the more Tories talk about the NHS, the better.
But why bring the little boy into this ?0 -
The rise of UKIP marks a failure of the left....
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-rise-of-ukip-marks-a-failure-of-the-left/
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It's quite clear that these promises have been carefully researched so that they are ostensibly funded.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
I'm happy to give you more credit for your wiser comments. It's not unreasonable that I might extend that view.0 -
Yeah yeah yeah try and hide it behind Climate Change BS. It wasn't me who started hugging huskies and putting windmills on their houses and having to take them down again. More important is what is the Tories energy policy or have they decided to avoid it in case the 'f' word comes up? Seriously though there are various stories about the government now making contingency arrangements for when the lights go out and the Tories do not have an Energy policy of their own? Whats that all about?Itajai said:
Climate Change?? You mean politics masquerading as science? Thought it had been debunked and gone the way of the dinosaur.manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
Apart from spoilt kids like Zac G, who still believes in it.
Anyway, if it worries you, ask Millipede to go strong. Then explain why everyone´s fuel bills are going to keep a bunch of pseudo-scientists in the comfort and international jamborees they are accustomed to. They have decided they are 579% sure you know. Send the cheque to their next jamboree in some exotic beach location. They´ll be either in the 5* hotel or First Class airport lounge.0 -
There are 4.4 million people paying 40% tax rate. 40-50k is a decent salary but hardly what you would call rich.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
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Parties evolve, sometimes a long way from their ideological beginnings and underpinnings, so saying they cannot, by definition, support something does not automatically follow. It may well still be true of Tories as a whole today, but individually it might not be, and indeed vice versa. I am sure there are things Labour (and especially New Labour) supported fervently which their opponents and some supporters claimed Labour could/should never be able to support, by definition, because they were Labour damnit.surbiton said:Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
?
I just don't think the matter is as simple as you suggest.
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I grew up in Alton. I now live in a village near Hook.Charles said:
Which part? I grew up near Wootton, but family links to Hackwood, Hook and Daneshill as wellCasino_Royale said:
I live near Basingstoke myself. Ditto.Charles said:
LOL!Richard_Nabavi said:So, to be clear, if William Hague had said 'Arron Banks is a splended fellow, he was perhaps the most distinguished Vice Chairman the Basingstoke Tories have ever had", would Mr Banks have given a million quid to the Tories instead?
I'm from Basingstoke and *I* haven't heard of him!
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@MarkHopkins
Pretty accurate description of at least one of Labours problems.0 -
You can gauge how very good Cameron's speech was by the vitriolic responses of the 'timalikes' tonight backed up by their allies who want to avoid the EU referendum in UKIP.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
One suspects that both Miliband and Reckless in their different ways are feeling quite nervous tonight.0 -
Nor the armed forces, or the police, or the monarchy, on the same reasoning.surbiton said:Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Are socialists getting stupider?
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Well from what I can see (I didn't hear the speech) it was one of those 'trust me I'm a politician' moments where he assured the country that he could strike a deal with Brussels about limiting immigration but in what way and by how much I do not believe he said.Freggles said:
What did Cameron say about immigration, anyway?manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
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Is £40k-50k higher than the minimum wage ? They got £8500 extra threshold [ of course, totally unfunded ] against a puny increase of £2000 for the minimum threshold.Eastwinger said:
There are 4.4 million people paying 40% tax rate. 40-50k is a decent salary but hardly what you would call rich.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
To be fair, the Tory rascals are looking after their own !0 -
Freggles said:
There are still major amounts of waste, inefficiency and duplication of effort in the NHS. I see it nearly every day.foxinsoxuk said:Freggles said:
Based on...?ZenPagan said:
What has funding proper healthcare got to do with not looking at the money currently spent on the NHS.
For starters I am pretty sure that there is a huge level of waste in the NHS and that if we analysed spending we would find a huge proportion is not actually spent on health care at all but other stuff that can actually be trimmed without affecting primary care in the least.
Payments to GPs, as well as payments to hospitals, are racheted down every year - so they have to do more and more to get the same money. Easy savings have been made already. The only way to make a big saving would be to make a fundamental change such as removing the market as a minimum, or removing the purchaser/provider split. Though that would just make it like the Scottish system and their outcomes and costs are very similar to ours.Secondly a lot of things done on the National health frankly probably shouldnt be. Tattoo removal springs to mind as a prime example. There is also plenty of other ways that can be looked at such as co payments etc that would keep healthcare within reach for people while allowing less to be spent.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2567.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154
The NHS is good value for money (source: Commonwealth Fund) and any savings that can be made are dwarfed by the demographic tide. Believe it or not there are a lot of intelligent people trying to do more for the money and it's just not simple.
A lot of the problem is that the NHS is over-managed to meet artificial targets, but under administered. Some days I feel like a very well paid secretary. If I did have a competent secretary my clinical work productivity would increase very quickly.
What do you think would happen if 18 weeks got scrapped?
I think that the 18 weeks RTT target has become a fetish. The problem of such worthy targets is that they get priority over non target areas. So for example there are 18 week RTT targets in gynaecology, but none for labour ward care. There are 4 hour targets for A and E but none for ward staffing levels (or at least none that count on the Trusts scorecard). This is the root of Stafford, the Mid Staffs Trust wanted to meet their targets in order to get FT status. Was their 18 week RTT the right priority for them to follow?0 -
@Eastwinger
What do you call the minimum wage then?0 -
@foxinsoxuk
What is causing it in Hitchingbrook?0 -
Whatever else it is the NHS is not about 'socialised health care' - Are you even aware of how GP practices are organised and paid? Have you forgotten who privatised hospitals and put NHS services out to tender to private companies between 1997-2010? Truth is Cameron's speech has got you in a total panic. and your leader has no answers - he can barely remember the important questions!surbiton said:
The point is he still uses his dead son for emotive political advantage knowing his opponents cannot attack him on this.Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
He knows the Tories are not believed on the NHS. So he wraps himself , sadly, around his son.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Like the Republicans cannot support Obamacare , however, marginally socialised it is.
Luckily, the more Tories talk about the NHS, the better.
But why bring the little boy into this ?0 -
Wouldn't put it past the Tories privatising the police ! They already have with prisons.Ishmael_X said:
Nor the armed forces, or the police, or the monarchy, on the same reasoning.surbiton said:Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Are socialists getting stupider?
The monarchy - well, actually, I wouldn't mind if it went out on tender and the lowest bidder wins.0 -
An interesting idea, particular with emphasising how many in UKIP support what are supposed to be left wing statements, though as long as Labour can sleepwalk into a majority if the opponents are broken enough, as they currently still can, I cannot see them seriously trying to address the issue. Hell, the Tories generally didn't seem to be treating UKIP as serious opponents until the recent defections, and some still aren't, sticking to either belittling them or begging them to be partners. It'll be a long while before Labour as a whole see enough of a threat in UKIP to do something about it, if the Tory response is any indication.MarkHopkins said:The rise of UKIP marks a failure of the left....
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-rise-of-ukip-marks-a-failure-of-the-left/0 -
However the minimum threshold has risen substantially thanks to this government taking many low wage and part time workers out of tax altogether.surbiton said:
Is £40k-50k higher than the minimum wage ? They got £8500 extra threshold [ of course, totally unfunded ] against a puny increase of £2000 for the minimum threshold.Eastwinger said:
There are 4.4 million people paying 40% tax rate. 40-50k is a decent salary but hardly what you would call rich.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
To be fair, the Tory rascals are looking after their own !
0 -
True. Especially in so far as it gains the support of the WWC.MarkHopkins said:The rise of UKIP marks a failure of the left....
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-rise-of-ukip-marks-a-failure-of-the-left/0 -
I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?Smarmeron said:@foxinsoxuk
What is causing it in Hitchingbrook?0 -
I think that the 18 weeks RTT target has become a fetish. The problem of such worthy targets is that they get priority over non target areas. So for example there are 18 week RTT targets in gynaecology, but none for labour ward care. There are 4 hour targets for A and E but none for ward staffing levels (or at least none that count on the Trusts scorecard). This is the root of Stafford, the Mid Staffs Trust wanted to meet their targets in order to get FT status. Was their 18 week RTT the right priority for them to follow?foxinsoxuk said:Freggles said:
There are still major amounts of waste, inefficiency and duplication of effort in the NHS. I see it nearly every day.foxinsoxuk said:Freggles said:
Based on...?ZenPagan said:
What has funding proper healthcare got to do with not looking at the money currently spent on the NHS.
For starters I am pretty sure that there is a huge level of waste in the NHS and that if we analysed spending we would find a huge proportion is not actually spent on health care at all but other stuff that can actually be trimmed without affecting primary care in the least.
Payments to GPs, as well as payments to hospitals, are racheted down every year - so they have to do more and more to get the same money. Easy savings have been made already. The only way to make a big saving would be to make a fundamental change such as removing the market as a minimum, or removing the purchaser/provider split. Though that would just make it like the Scottish system and their outcomes and costs are very similar to ours.Secondly a lot of things done on the National health frankly probably shouldnt be. Tattoo removal springs to mind as a prime example. There is also plenty of other ways that can be looked at such as co payments etc that would keep healthcare within reach for people while allowing less to be spent.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2567.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154
The NHS is good value for money (source: Commonwealth Fund) and any savings that can be made are dwarfed by the demographic tide. Believe it or not there are a lot of intelligent people trying to do more for the money and it's just not simple.
A lot of the problem is that the NHS is over-managed to meet artificial targets, but under administered. Some days I feel like a very well paid secretary. If I did have a competent secretary my clinical work productivity would increase very quickly.
What do you think would happen if 18 weeks got scrapped?
That's an argument for intelligent and flexible targets, not for no targets... and intelligent flexible targets take more administration, not less.0 -
Bollocks ! The best thing that could possibly have happened. 1983 in reverse.MarkHopkins said:The rise of UKIP marks a failure of the left....
http://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-rise-of-ukip-marks-a-failure-of-the-left/0 -
If by "Better off" you mean people earning £30-50,000 a year, you're probably right. I'm not sure why you have a grudge against that section of the population, though.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.0 -
Evening all. I detect an element of panic from our leftie and Kipper friends this evening. Surby your comment about the NHS was one of the most ludicrous, even by your standards. People don't give a flying fart how healthcare is provided, as long as it is provided. For goodness sake between 1997 and 2010 virtually every hospital, health centre and GP surgery built across the UK was done under PFI. If we waited for the public sector to come up with the goods, most people would still be getting treated in WWII Nissan huts and ex military hospitals full of asbestos and goodness knows what.0
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Do you know that GPs are self-employed private contractors?surbiton said:
The point is he still uses his dead son for emotive political advantage knowing his opponents cannot attack him on this.Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
He knows the Tories are not believed on the NHS. So he wraps himself , sadly, around his son.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Like the Republicans cannot support Obamacare , however, marginally socialised it is.
Luckily, the more Tories talk about the NHS, the better.
But why bring the little boy into this ?0 -
I see judging by today's speech that even the Tories have given up the ghost and admitted that there is no point talking about the deficit, since people don't care about it. Quite why Labour have felt the need to happily blunder into the Tories' trap by committing themselves to big cuts, I have no idea.
I think the Tories have won, frankly. I can't see how "Vote Labour to get Tory policies with half the competence" is going to get votes.0 -
FT editorial on Cameron tax cut: "they have staked out a fiscal position that is neither sober nor realistic"0
-
That's an argument for intelligent and flexible targets, not for no targets... and intelligent flexible targets take more administration, not less.Freggles said:
I think that the 18 weeks RTT target has become a fetish. The problem of such worthy targets is that they get priority over non target areas. So for example there are 18 week RTT targets in gynaecology, but none for labour ward care. There are 4 hour targets for A and E but none for ward staffing levels (or at least none that count on the Trusts scorecard). This is the root of Stafford, the Mid Staffs Trust wanted to meet their targets in order to get FT status. Was their 18 week RTT the right priority for them to follow?foxinsoxuk said:Freggles said:
There are still major amounts of waste, inefficiency and duplication of effort in the NHS. I see it nearly every day.foxinsoxuk said:Freggles said:
Based on..ZenPagan said:
What has funding proper healthcare got to do with not looking at the money currently spent on the NHS.
For starters I am pretty sure that there is a huge level of waste in the NHS and that if we analysed spending we would find a huge proportion is not actually spent on health care at all but other stuff that can actually be trimmed without affecting primary care in the least.Secondly a lot of things done on the National health frankly probably shouldnt be. Tattoo removal springs to mind as a prime example. There is also plenty of other ways that can be looked at such as co payments etc that would keep healthcare within reach for people while allowing less to be spent.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2567.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=154
The NHS is good value for money (source: Commonwealth Fund) and any savings that can be made are dwarfed by the demographic tide. Believe it or not there are a lot of intelligent people trying to do more for the money and it's just not simple.
A lot of the problem is that the NHS is over-managed to meet artificial targets, but under administered. Some days I feel like a very well paid secretary. If I did have a competent secretary my clinical work productivity would increase very quickly.
What do you think would happen if 18 weeks got scrapped?
I have no problem with intelligent targets agreed with our commissioners, just with the arbitrariness of the 18 week RTT. I would rather report in terms of maximum, median, mean, 25th and 75th quartiles rather than whether a patient had the clock stopped at 17 +6 rather than 18+1.
Incidentally it might also be useful if commissioners received information on clinical out come measures and patient satisfaction, not just cost and wait times! This is what commissioners were supposed to do...0 -
@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?
0 -
Quite right, nobody will care until the shit hits the fan. Both parties are hoping that it's the other one holding the parcel when that happens. At least the Tories have made a half hearted stab at it. Labour have just let it slip their collective mind.Danny565 said:I see judging by today's speech that even the Tories have given up the ghost and admitted that there is no point talking about the deficit, since people don't care about it. Quite why Labour have felt the need to happily blunder into the Tories' trap by committing themselves to big cuts, I have no idea.
I think the Tories have won, frankly. I can't see how "Vote Labour to get Tory policies with half the competence" is going to get votes.
0 -
The Tories failed badly on the deficit by the standards they set themselves.Eastwinger said:
Quite right, nobody will care until the shit hits the fan. Both parties are hoping that it's the other one holding the parcel when that happens. At least the Tories have made a half hearted stab at it. Labour have just let it slip their collective mind.Danny565 said:I see judging by today's speech that even the Tories have given up the ghost and admitted that there is no point talking about the deficit, since people don't care about it. Quite why Labour have felt the need to happily blunder into the Tories' trap by committing themselves to big cuts, I have no idea.
I think the Tories have won, frankly. I can't see how "Vote Labour to get Tory policies with half the competence" is going to get votes.
Now they have just promised to spunk billions more, unfunded.
0 -
People won't care about what the self-appointed "credible" analysts say. People don't care about whether some figures on a spreadsheet add up, all they care about is what they're going to get out of it. The idiocy here is Labour for falling into the trap and committing themselves to austerity, thus meaning they can't promise any popular policies (or any reason for voting Labour at all).Hugh said:FT editorial on Cameron tax cut: "they have staked out a fiscal position that is neither sober nor realistic"
0 -
Exactly. My late grandmother spent her final 9 months in the spanking new, fully equipped Invergordon County Hospital on the Cromarty Firth, surrounded by wonderful, caring staff. The building was about 10 years old having replaced a WWI Naval Fever hospital made out of Nissan huts. It was drafty and had leaks everywhere.Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?0 -
@Eastwinger
At least there is one point we agree on, "things are not looking rosy" and neither of them have a decent plan.
Ed evaded, and Dave waffled........0 -
Certainly there was a need to modernise hospitals, but were Labours PFI schemes the right way to fund the new modern hospitals?Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?
0 -
Are the FT still proclaiming we'll go to hell in a handcart if we don't join the Euro?Hugh said:FT editorial on Cameron tax cut: "they have staked out a fiscal position that is neither sober nor realistic"
0 -
Hugh is very big on the politics of entitlement: if anyone has more money than Hugh, he is entitled to have it from them through the tax system.Sean_F said:
If by "Better off" you mean people earning £30-50,000 a year, you're probably right. I'm not sure why you have a grudge against that section of the population, though.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
These "better off" are ed's "squeezed middle".
0 -
That may be true but they are only taking a leaf out of Labours book.Hugh said:
The Tories failed badly on the deficit by the standards they set themselves.Eastwinger said:
Quite right, nobody will care until the shit hits the fan. Both parties are hoping that it's the other one holding the parcel when that happens. At least the Tories have made a half hearted stab at it. Labour have just let it slip their collective mind.Danny565 said:I see judging by today's speech that even the Tories have given up the ghost and admitted that there is no point talking about the deficit, since people don't care about it. Quite why Labour have felt the need to happily blunder into the Tories' trap by committing themselves to big cuts, I have no idea.
I think the Tories have won, frankly. I can't see how "Vote Labour to get Tory policies with half the competence" is going to get votes.
Now they have just promised to spunk billions more, unfunded.
Somewhere down the road the lesson will be learned that you can't borrow your way to prosperity. Until that day comes I'm afraid that it's going to be more of the same.
0 -
7-point Labour lead tonight though...0
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@Easteross and @Foxnsocks (edited)
PFI was insane, and still is, but this was the alternative.
http://www.pppforum.com/gallery/hairmyres-hospital
lesser of two evils?0 -
As I remarked earlier. Nobody is paying attention yet.Danny565 said:7-point Labour lead tonight though...
0 -
I've just been rewatching Cameron's speech. He came very close (did?) basically say he would go to the EU to seek concessions on freedom of movement to get what Britain needs.
Anyone else have a view on this? I see it hard how Cameron would announce this without first having tested the waters with Merkel.
I posted this link a few days ago. It equivocates, but has some interesting reforms/suggestions that the UK could argue for - see p.53 onwards:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/335088/SingleMarketFree_MovementPersons.pdf0 -
foxinsoxuk said:
Certainly there was a need to modernise hospitals, but were Labours PFI schemes the right way to fund the new modern hospitals?Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?
PFI schemes were a good idea in principle. The problem was the half-wits and clowns from the public sector who couldn't negotiate a decent set of terms and conditions and ended up paying heavily for constantly changing building specs and their lack of commercial abilities. I don't blame the private companies. If some clowns offered them £20m or £50m for basically doing the same thing, only a fool would turn down the £50m. I might add we had clowns incapable of negotiating a decent contract during the Major government period too.foxinsoxuk said:
Certainly there was a need to modernise hospitals, but were Labours PFI schemes the right way to fund the new modern hospitals?Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?0 -
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by seven points: CON 31%, LAB 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 5%
0 -
Nick Sutton ✔ @suttonnick
Thursday's Metro front page - "Cameron: We'll cut tax for poor" #tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers #cpc14 pic.twitter.com/ftZQoIxDP3
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So are stationery suppliers and pharma giants producing the medicine. That does not take away the fact that it is funded as a socialised health scheme, like it or not !Sean_F said:
Do you know that GPs are self-employed private contractors?surbiton said:
The point is he still uses his dead son for emotive political advantage knowing his opponents cannot attack him on this.Casino_Royale said:
I don't say this very often, to any poster Hugh, but that was an absolutely vile and disgusting post.Hugh said:Cameron's "breaky voice, emotions showing" thing when he uses his son to make a political point has been perfected though, I must admit.
Cameron is talking about his own severely disabled son, who suffered his whole life with cerebral palsy and epilepsy who died - in quite a bit of pain - aged just six years old.
If you'd had a disabled son who'd died whilst just a small child, could you talk about him without your voice breaking?
I will never look on you or your posts, here, in the same way again. And I hope other posters won't either.
He knows the Tories are not believed on the NHS. So he wraps himself , sadly, around his son.
Tories are capitalists ! The NHS is about socialised health care.. The whole ethos of the NHS is to be paid 100% out of taxation. Tories, by definition, cannot support the NHS.
Like the Republicans cannot support Obamacare , however, marginally socialised it is.
Luckily, the more Tories talk about the NHS, the better.
But why bring the little boy into this ?0 -
But what does Cameron actually mean -that people who haven't had a member of their immediate family receive life-changing care from the NHS would not have sufficient empathy not to drive a wrecking ball through the whole thing? Or that if Cameron does do something that radically changes the NHS it's ok because he sincerely loves the service due to his son? Does it mean that he's researched what went *right* in that particular care environment to try and replicate that across the whole service (I strongly doubt it)?SeanT said:
Perhaps because Cameron really means it?
However much I despise Ed Miliband as a thinker and politician, I didn't doubt the Labour leader when he defended his Dad against the Mail, he was so obviously sincere. And when Miliband continues to use his immigrant status to underline his philosophy on immigration (i.e. more relaxed and open) I can empathise with his position, thanks to Ed's dad, even if I think it wrong headed.
Ditto Cameron and the NHS. There is no difference. You cannot simultaneously cheer Ed Miliband for using his Dad to stake out a liberal position on migration (as you do), then sneer at Cameron for using the very real illness and death of his son to prove his commitment to the NHS.
Typical, feeble, nasty, left-wing double standards.
0 -
Agreed. Those wages aren't breadline but not a pot of endless gold either. Those on said wages need to keep an eye on spending also.Eastwinger said:
There are 4.4 million people paying 40% tax rate. 40-50k is a decent salary but hardly what you would call rich.Hugh said:
The biggest beneficiaries from Cameron's unfunded splurgey promises will be the better off. As usual.surbiton said:
It is still not possible. Cameron promised to increase allowances at the bottom by £2000 and then increased the threshold for higher rate payers by £ 8000.MikeK said:UKIP SouthDerbyshire @UKIP_Derbyshire 1h42 minutes ago
It's funny really, UKIP have had the no PAYE for minimum wage policy for awhile, the media slammed it as not possible, now Dave steals it...
Typical Tories ! Always looking after the rich !
Gideon this week has already promised to clobber the less well off. As usual.
On a side not, the same old drivel being sprouted that the Tories are only looking out for the rich is old, boring and now being said only out of habit. The Tax Allowances announced will help low and middle earners. Those who say it won't, are the real liars.0 -
@Easterross
We also had private companies who openly (but legally) made sure the "extras" made their way into the right pockets.
Should we meet someday, I will regale you with the methods they used.
(Other government contracts are available) :-)0 -
PFI was the wrong privatisation. Demand should have been privatised, not supply.0
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At least LDs won't have the choice of going into coalition with the socialists.
I think they were almost looking forward to it!!!0 -
The same clowns bent over and let GPs take them for £100k a year with little extra in return.Easterross said:foxinsoxuk said:
Certainly there was a need to modernise hospitals, but were Labours PFI schemes the right way to fund the new modern hospitals?Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?
PFI schemes were a good idea in principle. The problem was the half-wits and clowns from the public sector who couldn't negotiate a decent set of terms and conditions and ended up paying heavily for constantly changing building specs and their lack of commercial abilities. I don't blame the private companies. If some clowns offered them £20m or £50m for basically doing the same thing, only a fool would turn down the £50m. I might add we had clowns incapable of negotiating a decent contract during the Major government period too.foxinsoxuk said:
Certainly there was a need to modernise hospitals, but were Labours PFI schemes the right way to fund the new modern hospitals?Smarmeron said:@Easterross
You have to admit, those hospitals badly needed rebuilt.
Our local hospital was originally designed as a TB sanatorium (George Orwell was a patient),
then later expanded to cope with war wounded (survivors from the Jarvis Bay)
Hard to be modern and efficient in a building entirely unsuited for the needs of a modern "General"?0 -
Lib Dem 7, Green 5Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by seven points: CON 31%, LAB 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 5%
Jeez0 -
Its not just Merkel. Freedom of movement is one of the fundamental principles of the EU. Even if Merkel, Cameron and Hollande all agreed that restrictions should be put on, all it would take would be one person taking a case to the ECJ and any such restrictions would be blown out of the water.Casino_Royale said:I've just been rewatching Cameron's speech. He came very close (did?) basically say he would go to the EU to seek concessions on freedom of movement to get what Britain needs.
Anyone else have a view on this? I see it hard how Cameron would announce this without first having tested the waters with Merkel.
I posted this link a few days ago. It equivocates, but has some interesting reforms/suggestions that the UK could argue for - see p.53 onwards:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/335088/SingleMarketFree_MovementPersons.pdf
It simply cannot and will not happen.
0 -
Good poll tonight for the Tories.
It means that when the Labour lead comes down in the next day or so, their press corps and the Sun can run a few headlines about Slam Cam's game-changer.0 -
I think you just say - Others 12Hugh said:
Lib Dem 7, Green 5Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by seven points: CON 31%, LAB 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 5%
Jeez
[checks casio]
0 -
ARF!Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by seven points: CON 31%, LAB 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 5%0 -
Poor old 'Clegger'..Hugh said:
Lib Dem 7, Green 5Tykejohnno said:
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead by seven points: CON 31%, LAB 38%, LD 7%, UKIP 15%, GRN 5%
Jeez0 -
Several governments see the unrestricted movement of poor people to rich nations as unsustainable. This is in terms of employment, benefits, infrastructure, social cohesion in the receiving states.Casino_Royale said:I've just been rewatching Cameron's speech. He came very close (did?) basically say he would go to the EU to seek concessions on freedom of movement to get what Britain needs.
Anyone else have a view on this? I see it hard how Cameron would announce this without first having tested the waters with Merkel.
I posted this link a few days ago. It equivocates, but has some interesting reforms/suggestions that the UK could argue for - see p.53 onwards:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/335088/SingleMarketFree_MovementPersons.pdf
Also the quality and viability of the workforce left in the country stripped of its young successful workers causes problems. (Visible in Poland and Serbia where I visited this year where the lack of available quality labour was attributed to the exodus to western europe).
Freedom of movement may be the foundation of EC, but it will change in the next 5 years.0 -
I love this quote by Mourinho:Itajai said:
Climate Change?? You mean politics masquerading as science? Thought it had been debunked and gone the way of the dinosaur.manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
Apart from spoilt kids like Zac G, who still believes in it.
Anyway, if it worries you, ask Millipede to go strong. Then explain why everyone´s fuel bills are going to keep a bunch of pseudo-scientists in the comfort and international jamborees they are accustomed to. They have decided they are 579% sure you know. Send the cheque to their next jamboree in some exotic beach location. They´ll be either in the 5* hotel or First Class airport lounge.
Sometimes you see beautiful people with no brains. Sometimes you see ugly people who are intelligent, like scientists.0 -
James Chapman (Mail)
@jameschappers At Last, A Real Tory Premier: our splash tomorrow on Cameron's tax offer to middle Britain #tomorrowspaperstoday
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Lol that's hilarious!Tykejohnno said:
James Chapman (Mail)
@jameschappers At Last, A Real Tory Premier: our splash tomorrow on Cameron's tax offer to middle Britain #tomorrowspaperstoday
Lynton will be delighted. LD-Lab switchers? Hmm....0 -
Tonights YG LAB 367 CON 235 LD 21
Ed is crap landslide PM0 -
This isn't aimed at LD-Lab switchers. They will never vote Tory anyway. It's aimed at Tory defectors, UKIP voters, and other centrist floating voters in the key marginals (including ex-Lib Dems) to get enough to swing behind Cameron to build an election winning coalition.Hugh said:
Lol that's hilarious!Tykejohnno said:
James Chapman (Mail)
@jameschappers At Last, A Real Tory Premier: our splash tomorrow on Cameron's tax offer to middle Britain #tomorrowspaperstoday
Lynton will be delighted. LD-Lab switchers? Hmm....
I think it will work. I've abandoned all my Labour majority positions on Betfair today.0 -
Hugh said:
Lol that's hilarious!Tykejohnno said:
James Chapman (Mail)
@jameschappers At Last, A Real Tory Premier: our splash tomorrow on Cameron's tax offer to middle Britain #tomorrowspaperstoday
Lynton will be delighted. LD-Lab switchers? Hmm....
Tim Montgomerie ✔ @TimMontgomerie
Bingo. The Tory press seems to be back #cpc14 pic.twitter.com/DMhnEiVCU4
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The Cameroons put their faith in the magic money tree and the magic energy fairy.manofkent2014 said:I am gobsmacked. Has Cameron given up on a majority? There was no session on Climate Change and Energy and no session on Business at their conference. The party of business did not talk about business.
Its all very well Cameron chiding Miliband for missing out the Deficit and Immigration but there will be sod all growth if the Tories haven't got coherent Business and Energy policies. Is Cameron going into the election without spokespeople on Business and Energy and Climate Change?
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The papers tonight are an indicator of the type of media support Cameron will get during next years campaign.0
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New Thread0
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It will be interesting to see Hugh develop - the first job and the realisation there are working hours after 5:00pm - when he realises a work shy, sick note colleague is regarded with contempt by actual workers - when he looks at his first paycheck and realises just how much of it disappears in tax - when he pays Council tax and realises 25%-50% goes on subsidising Council pensions - when every interaction with officialdom needlessly soaks up time and effort he cannot spare. I think he will be voting Tory by 30.0
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You held LAB majority positions?Casino_Royale said:
This isn't aimed at LD-Lab switchers. They will never vote Tory anyway. It's aimed at Tory defectors, UKIP voters, and other centrist floating voters in the key marginals (including ex-Lib Dems) to get enough to swing behind Cameron to build an election winning coalition.Hugh said:
Lol that's hilarious!Tykejohnno said:
James Chapman (Mail)
@jameschappers At Last, A Real Tory Premier: our splash tomorrow on Cameron's tax offer to middle Britain #tomorrowspaperstoday
Lynton will be delighted. LD-Lab switchers? Hmm....
I think it will work. I've abandoned all my Labour majority positions on Betfair today.
Lab most seats my only serious GE2015 position.
If kitche sink throwing by Tories does not move polls in next few days they are in serious trouble
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Absolutely. But then no mainstream politican is serious about reducing the PSBR, let alone repaying some of the national debt. And when the sovereign debt crisis starts hitting, a year on from now, that'll be when the fun starts. Cameron's tax cuts simply aren't worth the paper they're written on. Remember he said the PSBR would be zero by the end of this parliament - its currently £100bn or more. He clearly hasn't got a clue about demographic pressures - that ring fencing on the NHS is yet another unfunded promise given those pressures. No sense of reality there either.Hugh said:
The Tories failed badly on the deficit by the standards they set themselves.Eastwinger said:
Quite right, nobody will care until the shit hits the fan. Both parties are hoping that it's the other one holding the parcel when that happens. At least the Tories have made a half hearted stab at it. Labour have just let it slip their collective mind.Danny565 said:I see judging by today's speech that even the Tories have given up the ghost and admitted that there is no point talking about the deficit, since people don't care about it. Quite why Labour have felt the need to happily blunder into the Tories' trap by committing themselves to big cuts, I have no idea.
I think the Tories have won, frankly. I can't see how "Vote Labour to get Tory policies with half the competence" is going to get votes.
Now they have just promised to spunk billions more, unfunded.
The only time in history that government debt has been paid back was under Ceaucescu in Romania, and he bankrupted his entire economy in doing so. Why investors think government bonds are risk free, which is one of the central tenets of modern financial theory is beyond me - that lazy assumption will be shown for what it is in 2016 and beyond.
Not one of Farage's finest days by far - did the Tories present a credible double agent to Farage in order to do the dirty on him? I like others on here felt a great sense of disappointment at 5pm today.
Meanwhile our fellow career politicians across the Irish sea are hardly behaving themselves: http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/10/01/irish-attack-politicians-after-they-exempt-themselves-from-paying-for-water/0 -
From the Telegraph:
' In a hearing in the European Parliament today, the Conservative peer promised MEPs that he would put EU regulation above Britain’s national interest at a time when the Government is legally contesting European financial legislation to defend the City. '
Another failure for Cameron on the EU.
He makes a habit of this doesn't he.
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My cousins grew up at the Four Seasons in Dogmersfield (before it was a hotel, obviously!). Nice part of the world!Casino_Royale said:
I grew up in Alton. I now live in a village near Hook.Charles said:
Which part? I grew up near Wootton, but family links to Hackwood, Hook and Daneshill as wellCasino_Royale said:
I live near Basingstoke myself. Ditto.Charles said:
LOL!Richard_Nabavi said:So, to be clear, if William Hague had said 'Arron Banks is a splended fellow, he was perhaps the most distinguished Vice Chairman the Basingstoke Tories have ever had", would Mr Banks have given a million quid to the Tories instead?
I'm from Basingstoke and *I* haven't heard of him!0 -
Why anyone listens to him after the Lisbon Treaty farce I don't know - yet another broken promise amongst the many.another_richard said:From the Telegraph:
' In a hearing in the European Parliament today, the Conservative peer promised MEPs that he would put EU regulation above Britain’s national interest at a time when the Government is legally contesting European financial legislation to defend the City. '
Another failure for Cameron on the EU.
He makes a habit of this doesn't he.0
