Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
Who on here has had any experience with illegal immigrants. Or suspected illegal immigrants.
Was it a good or bad or only read about in the right wing press experience.
TIA.
A couple of times I went to property fires in or above fast food takeaways, proper fires, smoke billowing out the windows, kebab grease on fire in extractor vents (nearly as poetic as assault ships on fire off the shoulder of orion🤣). On both occasions, I was in the first BA team through the door and up the stairs, to be met by at least 10 dazed and coughing illegal immigrants who were too scared to evacuate as they knew the police were outside. Had to literally punch, kick and drag them down the stairs to safety. Once outside, they all took off running in different directions. Turns out that by day they worked at a couple of local car washes and at night delivered takeaways for various bosses and slept in shifts on mattresses in derelict flats above the shops that weren't legally habitable (no seperation from the cooking area, no fire alarms or suppression, amongst many other issues). So in all, not really good or bad for me (although one of the shops was my main source of food on a night out before I turned hippy!) Bad for the poor immigrants, no more than slaves really.
Thanks. I think it was always eg @isam who spoke (whether of experience or anecdote) of immigrants living 10 to a room and hence able to undercut local workers in terms of wages, etc.
I think the main issue as you allude to is that if they are illegal they are hardly going to petition the authorities because they are not receiving the minimum wage.
Which of course means the source of the problem lies elsewhere.
We were looking around for a new house in West London. One place... On an OK suburban road of semis. The area was on the edge of a nice area and been subsumed by the waves of gentrification.
Within second of looking at the place, it was quite clear - every room was a dormitory for adults. Two bunk beds per room. A bathroom had been converted into another bedroom by ripping out the bath. The residents were pretty much unable to speak English and were plainly terrified of us.
There was no fire alarm system, and the doors weren't fire doors. At least one room exited through another room. So a death trap in the event of fire in the wrong place. The wiring was lethal looking.
I spoke to the estate agent. He was quite unapologetic - he didn't normally do the slum stuff. But this was a great opportunity.
If you know the area, there are a fair few similar - but they are increasingly being sold up and the occupants sent to the next slum location.
The garden was full of push bikes for various delivery services - mainly Deliveroo.
The house was on the market again recently - a superficial paint job after the occupants were evicted, it looked like, from the photos.
Didn't really speak to the occupants - who were quite definitely illegal immigrants. I'd happily beat the landlord to a pulp, though.
From the FBI summary of the Mirandized interview of the assailant: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1587155462184656896 How did DePape get into the house? "DEPAPE stated that he broke into the house through a glass door, which was a difficult task that required the use of a hammer."... Motive: "DEPAPE stated that he was going to hold Nancy hostage...DEPAPE articulated he viewed Nancy as the 'leader of the pack' of lies told by the Democratic Party...DEPAPE also later explained that by breaking Nancy’s kneecaps, she would then have to be wheeled into Congress.."...
The deep state has got to him
As one of the apparently brainiest posters of PB observed - it's "impossible" to guess which of the conflicting stories about this case is likely to be true. Quoting what the FBI say have released about it is a sure sign that one is a gullible libtard, according to some of the PB geniuses.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
A lot was already broken before Brexit. Indeed, communities / services / industries being broken was a key driver for Brexit in a lot of places.
What was a successful economy in the 1990s was changed into a low pay, low productivity one underpinned by a constant influx of migrants at the bottom.
Aston Martin and Lotus aren't mass market car makes, they need bigger carmakers.
The new Lotus Eletre SUV is going to be built in Wuhan (JUST LIKE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WAS MANUFACTURED THERE!) so they aren't going to be shipping battery packs to China for that.
AM have no definite BEV model on their roadmap and their hybid, the fucking awful Valhalla, uses a Merc powertrain.
I honestly think they've just chucked out the names of two semi-prestigous UK manufacturers to catch the eye.
I've not yet understood what their value proposition is. Why would anyone loop them into their supply chain? Seems high risk for no obvious benefit.
I think they are angling for government to become a customer, relying on the sunk cost fallacy in a few years time.
I said several years ago that Brexit would stop us participating in the re-engineering of European car manufacturing, and got a lot of pushback. Not so much recently.
As we accelerate to the end of ICE, there will be a massive crunch on battery manufacturing. There is going to be a shortage, unless the increases in production are further ramped up.
It's not going to work like that, though. Things will move at the pace of growth in supply. I don't think that's going to make more than a marginal difference to anything in the UK.
I would like to think you are right but the record of the last couple of decades of government doesn't inspire me with hope on that. Certainly in terms of overall energy supply things have not moved at the pace of growth in supply of renewables in spite of us being one of the most aggressive developers of renewables in the world. Instead the Government has chosen to cut back on other energy supplies and so helped to exacerbate the energy shortage we are now experiencing.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
So says a pathetic Anglophobe, reposted by another Anglophobe loser, who is a pitiable joke on this site, who so hates his own country that he lives in another one, and has no friends so spends his whole time doing nothing else than posting hate filled shite online
I love you too Nige ❤️
Bisous xxx
Love is something you need to work at mate. All that hatred for "The English" (that uniform, undiverse group) is eating you up. You need to spend less time on here, and maybe realise that people of all countries are just people
Thanks for this, very enlightening. Shows that the self-haters need to be a little less critical of their fellow countrymen.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everything is fine, but surveys generally show that the UK is not anti-immigration when compared to most other European countries. Not that I expect anything I post to change Roger's views, for people like him one ill-founded anecdote that matches his prejudices trumps any "numbers" that show him to be wrong.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
One of the things which gives cause for optimism is the size of the immigration-positive vote.
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
It's about showing that you're on the right side against Putin, to an extent, isn't it?
Maybe, but I wouldn't classify that as cultural. I'd say the default UK position tends to be not quite as bad as the other side and occasionally not the right side. Iraq started off as against the baddy, but by some magical King Midas in reverse shit we managed to transform ourseves into the wrong side and as a result fucked up the region for decades.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
One of the things which gives cause for optimism is the size of the immigration-positive vote.
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
I regard myself as a centrist, but I am not sure where I would sit on that survey, because it isn't nuanced enough IMO. I am still of the opinion that an asylum seeker should seek asylum in the first safe country they land in. They should then apply for economic migrant status to move to another, and international agreements could be reached to ensure that "frontline" countries don't have to take all.
With respect to immigration generally, I would say we probably need more to grow economically, but those are migrants that offer an economic gain (often EU origin). As I say, it is nuanced.
Aston Martin and Lotus aren't mass market car makes, they need bigger carmakers.
The new Lotus Eletre SUV is going to be built in Wuhan (JUST LIKE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WAS MANUFACTURED THERE!) so they aren't going to be shipping battery packs to China for that.
AM have no definite BEV model on their roadmap and their hybid, the fucking awful Valhalla, uses a Merc powertrain.
I honestly think they've just chucked out the names of two semi-prestigous UK manufacturers to catch the eye.
I've not yet understood what their value proposition is. Why would anyone loop them into their supply chain? Seems high risk for no obvious benefit.
I think they are angling for government to become a customer, relying on the sunk cost fallacy in a few years time.
I said several years ago that Brexit would stop us participating in the re-engineering of European car manufacturing, and got a lot of pushback. Not so much recently.
As we accelerate to the end of ICE, there will be a massive crunch on battery manufacturing. There is going to be a shortage, unless the increases in production are further ramped up.
It's not going to work like that, though. Things will move at the pace of growth in supply. I don't think that's going to make more than a marginal difference to anything in the UK.
I would like to think you are right but the record of the last couple of decades of government doesn't inspire me with hope on that. Certainly in terms of overall energy supply things have not moved at the pace of growth in supply of renewables in spite of us being one of the most aggressive developers of renewables in the world. Instead the Government has chosen to cut back on other energy supplies and so helped to exacerbate the energy shortage we are now experiencing.
Aston Martin and Lotus aren't mass market car makes, they need bigger carmakers.
The new Lotus Eletre SUV is going to be built in Wuhan (JUST LIKE SOMETHING ELSE THAT WAS MANUFACTURED THERE!) so they aren't going to be shipping battery packs to China for that.
AM have no definite BEV model on their roadmap and their hybid, the fucking awful Valhalla, uses a Merc powertrain.
I honestly think they've just chucked out the names of two semi-prestigous UK manufacturers to catch the eye.
I've not yet understood what their value proposition is. Why would anyone loop them into their supply chain? Seems high risk for no obvious benefit.
I think they are angling for government to become a customer, relying on the sunk cost fallacy in a few years time.
I said several years ago that Brexit would stop us participating in the re-engineering of European car manufacturing, and got a lot of pushback. Not so much recently.
As we accelerate to the end of ICE, there will be a massive crunch on battery manufacturing. There is going to be a shortage, unless the increases in production are further ramped up.
It's not going to work like that, though. Things will move at the pace of growth in supply. I don't think that's going to make more than a marginal difference to anything in the UK.
I would like to think you are right but the record of the last couple of decades of government doesn't inspire me with hope on that. Certainly in terms of overall energy supply things have not moved at the pace of growth in supply of renewables in spite of us being one of the most aggressive developers of renewables in the world. Instead the Government has chosen to cut back on other energy supplies and so helped to exacerbate the energy shortage we are now experiencing.
The world wide shortage of batteries is already effecting all manufacturers - which is why so many are investing in factories measured by the acre to build them.
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
The "ruling elite" aren't the ones actually raping, though, are they?
It's a truism that rulers can only do things by getting other people to do their bidding - for example, the NKVD/KGB/FSB wouldn't have got/get anywhere without willing informants. And "I was only following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse for at least 75 years.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
A lot was already broken before Brexit. Indeed, communities / services / industries being broken was a key driver for Brexit in a lot of places.
And Brexit was shite, but on the whole, Britain is not *the* best, but is still one of the best countries to live in the world by a huge number of measures.
Sure. On every objective measure that is correct. But for millions of Brits it doesn't feel like that, and they don't feel better when someone points it out. It is the structural inequality in this country that is our problem - we have riches and safety that others only dream of. But allow so many to live in crime-ridden poverty traps.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
I salute your dedication to the washing of beggars' feet.
Aston Martin and Lotus aren't mass market car makes, they need bigger carmakers.
Aston Martin are just rebadged Fords.
Ford have not had anything to do with AM since 2007. Some of the older engines share some internal architecture with ancient Ford engines like the Duratec V6. Now they are just a marketing operation that relies on Mercedes powertrains and electronics.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
While it is clearly ridiculous to try to claim the UK is religiously equidistant between Ukraine and Syria, differing support is nothing to do with race or religion. The British were hugely supportive of Hong Kongers, which completely undermines the "racist" argument of those that hate Britain. The difference is that Ukrainians and Hong Kongers believe democracy and egalitarianism. Meanwhile Syrians and Iraqis have been hotbeds of extremism and intolerance.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
It's about showing that you're on the right side against Putin, to an extent, isn't it?
Maybe, but I wouldn't classify that as cultural. I'd say the default UK position tends to be not quite as bad as the other side and occasionally not the right side. Iraq started off as against the baddy, but by some magical King Midas in reverse shit we managed to transform ourseves into the wrong side and as a result fucked up the region for decades.
There is definitely a cultural thing - Ukraine aspires to be a European country. The Ukrainians I have worked with are generally very much Eastern Europeans. A Polish friend, just this weekend, commented that the Ukrainians seemed like close relatives to him - outlook, mindset.
One of the things which gives cause for optimism is the size of the immigration-positive vote.
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
Of course you can't really boil down something as complex as migration to a single question, and yes opinion varies greatly. I'm not even saying that the UK's numbers are "good". My beef is that as good/bad as the migration issue is in the UK the evidence from surveys suggests that it is a lot worse elsewhere.
For what it's worth I didn't go looking for good data, that's the first appropriate survey from a reputable organisation I found. I'm fairly confident other surveys show a similar pattern.
It's also worth noting that the big survey from the Tony Blair think tank about the British view of our relationship with the EU showed that broadly people do not want an immigration system that favours EU citizens. People want a "fair" system that works for all. So the idea that we in the UK prefer certain migrants doesn't seem particularly strong.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
That makes my point doesn't it? The British aren't all like that. That's the PB perception that Suella is a great vote winner for the Tories is misplaced. If I can quote my own post
"None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it."
The figures you show which I hadn't seen bear this out. 37% don't want any 16% want more the rest have no view. So assuming the 37% aren't all Tory it looks like I was about right
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
A lot was already broken before Brexit. Indeed, communities / services / industries being broken was a key driver for Brexit in a lot of places.
What was a successful economy in the 1990s was changed into a low pay, low productivity one underpinned by a constant influx of migrants at the bottom.
Successful for whom? I remember that nice Mr Lilley attacking scroungers and single mums and doleys. And seeing kids educated in portacabins or classrooms where a steel endoskeleton had been installed to stop the roof collapsing on them. The structural inequalities go back further than that - we did a lot of national rebuilding post war, but it all started to fall apart in the 1970s.
And the alt-right gears up for what it really really wants - race war, literally. Half of them have probably been "playing" it "virtually" for years already. This is very scary, and the "just accept Brexit and move on" mantra even when it comes from reasonably kind people with good intentions doesn't get to grip with the real divisions and how they are developing - as sadly the "culture war" strategists on the racist right know all too well.
The UK is probably the least racist country in the world.
16th actually.
The Top 10 Least Racist Countries in the World in 2022 - Best Countries Report
Netherlands Canada New Zealand Sweden Denmark Finland Switzerland Norway Belgium Austria
And yet a fair number of the countries in the list above have elected governments which are rather more robust than ours in their approach to non-European immigrants. It genuinely seems hard to credit than Austria appears in the list above the UK.
It also seems hard to credit a poster who is (bar one) the most Anglophobic, and therefore arguably a type of racist, could be so lacking in self-awareness to post anything about racism and the additional irony that he posts it in further advancement of his hate filled prejudice.
You polished your jack boots , donned brown shirt , trimmed small moustache and are ready to abuse innocent people then Adolf Foreskin
Bit early even for you to be drinking. Even for you that is pretty incoherent. For the record, dickhead, unlike you, I am a centrist. You really are an objectionable little twat, but you do serve a purpose: you remind people that supporters of Alex Salmond are not only of very low intellect, but you are simply prejudiced small minded little fascists who believe in a kind of bizarre white supremacy; where pure-bred Scots are some kind of Aryan race. But as we all know, the few people that support Salmond are people like those that support Nick Griffin; thick hate filled morons who believe in their supremacy, but in fact are the lowest pond life.
Have a lovely day shouting at your telly in your rented bungalow, but do keep the noise down, your wife is very embarrassed at your behaviour
Adof Foreskin has got his panties in a bunch.
Lol. Such a silly post from a political numbskull. I can imagine your fat ugly bald head almost exploding with anger. Alex Salmond, like Nick Griffin, attracts political illiterates; those of low education, low intellect, low achievement, often with extreme prejudiced and anger management problems. You clearly tick all of these boxes.
Anyone who frequents this site seeing you trying to project your fascism onto a centrist, will just further realise what a thick idiot you are.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Paddington 3: Rwanda and back again.
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
One of the things which gives cause for optimism is the size of the immigration-positive vote.
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
Of course you can't really boil down something as complex as migration to a single question, and yes opinion varies greatly. I'm not even saying that the UK's numbers are "good". My beef is that as good/bad as the migration issue is in the UK the evidence from surveys suggests that it is a lot worse elsewhere.
For what it's worth I didn't go looking for good data, that's the first appropriate survey from a reputable organisation I found. I'm fairly confident other surveys show a similar pattern.
It's also worth noting that the big survey from the Tony Blair think tank about the British view of our relationship with the EU showed that broadly people do not want an immigration system that favours EU citizens. People want a "fair" system that works for all. So the idea that we in the UK prefer certain migrants doesn't seem particularly strong.
Indeed, while racist prats like Farage made dicks of themselves over that infamous poster, sensible Brexiteers were making an open and liberal case for fairer migration that didn't discriminate against eg Commonwealth nationals in favour of European ones.
Some racists during the referendum took the view, sometimes expressed on here, that EU migration being European was "good" migration and that migration from Pakistan/India etc was "bad" migration that people didn't want.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
That makes my point doesn't it? The British aren't all like that. That's the PB perception that Suella is a great vote winner for the Tories is misplaced. If I can quote my own post
"None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it."
The figures you show which I hadn't seen bear this out. 37% don't want any 16% want more the rest have no view. So assuming the 37% aren't all Tory it looks like I was about right
Your comment was "Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious" (copied from the quote).
It's clear that the majority view is not Faragian - you mischaracterising people who say "about the same" as "having no view" is egregious.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
That makes my point doesn't it? The British aren't all like that. That's the PB perception that Suella is a great vote winner for the Tories is misplaced. If I can quote my own post
"None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it."
The figures you show which I hadn't seen bear this out. 37% don't want any 16% want more the rest have no view. So assuming the 37% aren't all Tory it looks like I was about right
I am in favour of controlled immigration and realise that it is a failing policy area. I think you are a bit of a bigot yourself if you make the simplistic assumption that all people who would like to see less immigration are therefore all racists
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
The "ruling elite" aren't the ones actually raping, though, are they?
It's a truism that rulers can only do things by getting other people to do their bidding - for example, the NKVD/KGB/FSB wouldn't have got/get anywhere without willing informants. And "I was only following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse for at least 75 years.
Sure. But I wasn't responding about the criminal "soldiers", only about the notion that ordinary Russians are part of a "criminal nation and a criminal culture". When I streamed Russian TV waiting for one of the Putin rallies there were TV adverts selling the same old shit we have to the same old people who look like us and have the same lives and desires and experiences. There is no evil empire, and there never was. Just people being lied to by savages hoping to turn people into supporters of savagery.
This week @ScotParl will attend the Nordic Council for the first time. It’s a welcome opportunity to strengthen ties with the Nordic countries whose parliaments are similar in size and structure to ours.
Who on here has had any experience with illegal immigrants. Or suspected illegal immigrants.
Was it a good or bad or only read about in the right wing press experience.
TIA.
A couple of times I went to property fires in or above fast food takeaways, proper fires, smoke billowing out the windows, kebab grease on fire in extractor vents (nearly as poetic as assault ships on fire off the shoulder of orion🤣). On both occasions, I was in the first BA team through the door and up the stairs, to be met by at least 10 dazed and coughing illegal immigrants who were too scared to evacuate as they knew the police were outside. Had to literally punch, kick and drag them down the stairs to safety. Once outside, they all took off running in different directions. Turns out that by day they worked at a couple of local car washes and at night delivered takeaways for various bosses and slept in shifts on mattresses in derelict flats above the shops that weren't legally habitable (no seperation from the cooking area, no fire alarms or suppression, amongst many other issues). So in all, not really good or bad for me (although one of the shops was my main source of food on a night out before I turned hippy!) Bad for the poor immigrants, no more than slaves really.
Thanks. I think it was always eg @isam who spoke (whether of experience or anecdote) of immigrants living 10 to a room and hence able to undercut local workers in terms of wages, etc.
I think the main issue as you allude to is that if they are illegal they are hardly going to petition the authorities because they are not receiving the minimum wage.
Which of course means the source of the problem lies elsewhere.
We were looking around for a new house in West London. One place... On an OK suburban road of semis. The area was on the edge of a nice area and been subsumed by the waves of gentrification.
Within second of looking at the place, it was quite clear - every room was a dormitory for adults. Two bunk beds per room. A bathroom had been converted into another bedroom by ripping out the bath. The residents were pretty much unable to speak English and were plainly terrified of us.
There was no fire alarm system, and the doors weren't fire doors. At least one room exited through another room. So a death trap in the event of fire in the wrong place. The wiring was lethal looking.
I spoke to the estate agent. He was quite unapologetic - he didn't normally do the slum stuff. But this was a great opportunity.
If you know the area, there are a fair few similar - but they are increasingly being sold up and the occupants sent to the next slum location.
The garden was full of push bikes for various delivery services - mainly Deliveroo.
The house was on the market again recently - a superficial paint job after the occupants were evicted, it looked like, from the photos.
Didn't really speak to the occupants - who were quite definitely illegal immigrants. I'd happily beat the landlord to a pulp, though.
Young illegals in the black economy are contributing to our national wealth by dint of their slave labour. What will happen to them in the future? No money, no qualifications, no benefits, no healthcare and, in the end, no energy to pedal a bike.
And the alt-right gears up for what it really really wants - race war, literally. Half of them have probably been "playing" it "virtually" for years already. This is very scary, and the "just accept Brexit and move on" mantra even when it comes from reasonably kind people with good intentions doesn't get to grip with the real divisions and how they are developing - as sadly the "culture war" strategists on the racist right know all too well.
The UK is probably the least racist country in the world.
16th actually.
The Top 10 Least Racist Countries in the World in 2022 - Best Countries Report
Netherlands Canada New Zealand Sweden Denmark Finland Switzerland Norway Belgium Austria
And yet a fair number of the countries in the list above have elected governments which are rather more robust than ours in their approach to non-European immigrants. It genuinely seems hard to credit than Austria appears in the list above the UK.
It also seems hard to credit a poster who is (bar one) the most Anglophobic, and therefore arguably a type of racist, could be so lacking in self-awareness to post anything about racism and the additional irony that he posts it in further advancement of his hate filled prejudice.
You polished your jack boots , donned brown shirt , trimmed small moustache and are ready to abuse innocent people then Adolf Foreskin
Bit early even for you to be drinking. Even for you that is pretty incoherent. For the record, dickhead, unlike you, I am a centrist. You really are an objectionable little twat, but you do serve a purpose: you remind people that supporters of Alex Salmond are not only of very low intellect, but you are simply prejudiced small minded little fascists who believe in a kind of bizarre white supremacy; where pure-bred Scots are some kind of Aryan race. But as we all know, the few people that support Salmond are people like those that support Nick Griffin; thick hate filled morons who believe in their supremacy, but in fact are the lowest pond life.
Have a lovely day shouting at your telly in your rented bungalow, but do keep the noise down, your wife is very embarrassed at your behaviour
Adof Foreskin has got his panties in a bunch.
Lol. Such a silly post from a political numbskull. I can imagine your fat ugly bald head almost exploding with anger. Alex Salmond, like Nick Griffin, attracts political illiterates; those of low education, low intellect, low achievement, often with extreme prejudiced and anger management problems. You clearly tick all of these boxes.
Anyone who frequents this site seeing you trying to project your fascism onto a centrist, will just further realise what a thick idiot you are.
Watch that blood pressure Adolf,
Oh dear, you really are so thick that I would feel sorry for you if you were not such a prejudiced twat.
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
A glance at the sort of stuff aired on Russian TV suggests that's not entirely true.
I regard myself as a centrist, but I am not sure where I would sit on that survey, because it isn't nuanced enough IMO. I am still of the opinion that an asylum seeker should seek asylum in the first safe country they land in. They should then apply for economic migrant status to move to another, and international agreements could be reached to ensure that "frontline" countries don't have to take all.
With respect to immigration generally, I would say we probably need more to grow economically, but those are migrants that offer an economic gain (often EU origin). As I say, it is nuanced.
I think a large part of what provokes upset and anger isn't immigration per se, but the belief that some people are gaming the system, or that the system isn't fair. That really seems to stir up people, because we have this national self-image, which might not even be all that true, that we are very much in favour of fairness. So we almost see anything unfair as a national insult.
In other countries immigration related unhappiness might come down to things like the economic factors in poorer countries, or integration in countries with strong views about national identity, like language and religion. On the whole those seem to be lesser factors in the UK, but the "fairness" aspect makes people furious.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
It's about showing that you're on the right side against Putin, to an extent, isn't it?
Maybe, but I wouldn't classify that as cultural. I'd say the default UK position tends to be not quite as bad as the other side and occasionally not the right side. Iraq started off as against the baddy, but by some magical King Midas in reverse shit we managed to transform ourseves into the wrong side and as a result fucked up the region for decades.
There is definitely a cultural thing - Ukraine aspires to be a European country. The Ukrainians I have worked with are generally very much Eastern Europeans. A Polish friend, just this weekend, commented that the Ukrainians seemed like close relatives to him - outlook, mindset.
The chat was specifically about UK > UKR. I can certaiinly see the cultural connections between Poland and Ukraine, and why Ukrainians would yearn to be part of the EU, for pragmatic reasons as much as anything. I tend to be suspicious of the 'we're like close relatives' patter, partly because it's similar to the line that the 'we're all Russo slavs' lads come out with.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
A lot was already broken before Brexit. Indeed, communities / services / industries being broken was a key driver for Brexit in a lot of places.
What was a successful economy in the 1990s was changed into a low pay, low productivity one underpinned by a constant influx of migrants at the bottom.
Successful for whom? I remember that nice Mr Lilley attacking scroungers and single mums and doleys. And seeing kids educated in portacabins or classrooms where a steel endoskeleton had been installed to stop the roof collapsing on them. The structural inequalities go back further than that - we did a lot of national rebuilding post war, but it all started to fall apart in the 1970s.
If you look at unemployment and pay growth, most people. The UK's Gini coefficient fell 1990-1997 and then began climbing again afterwards.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
This is the sort of hyperbolic pessimism I can’t stand.
Certainly this country can do better in many ways. Certainly this country has not been well-run as of late. And yes I believe Brexit was a mistake. But there is lots to be proud of in this country. This constant self-flagelation, where we have to pretend that we are living in a hellhole mocked, scorned and hated by the rest of the world, and somehow need to feel bad and sorry about it, needs to stop if we are going to get out of our current problems.
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
So says a pathetic Anglophobe, reposted by another Anglophobe loser, who is a pitiable joke on this site, who so hates his own country that he lives in another one, and has no friends so spends his whole time doing nothing else than posting hate filled shite online
Poor old Adolf Foreskin, ranting and raving his bigotry against Scots. What a sadsack. You will do yourself an injury Adolf , fat gammony goosesteppers should be more careful.
Who on here has had any experience with illegal immigrants. Or suspected illegal immigrants.
Was it a good or bad or only read about in the right wing press experience.
TIA.
A couple of times I went to property fires in or above fast food takeaways, proper fires, smoke billowing out the windows, kebab grease on fire in extractor vents (nearly as poetic as assault ships on fire off the shoulder of orion🤣). On both occasions, I was in the first BA team through the door and up the stairs, to be met by at least 10 dazed and coughing illegal immigrants who were too scared to evacuate as they knew the police were outside. Had to literally punch, kick and drag them down the stairs to safety. Once outside, they all took off running in different directions. Turns out that by day they worked at a couple of local car washes and at night delivered takeaways for various bosses and slept in shifts on mattresses in derelict flats above the shops that weren't legally habitable (no seperation from the cooking area, no fire alarms or suppression, amongst many other issues). So in all, not really good or bad for me (although one of the shops was my main source of food on a night out before I turned hippy!) Bad for the poor immigrants, no more than slaves really.
Thanks. I think it was always eg @isam who spoke (whether of experience or anecdote) of immigrants living 10 to a room and hence able to undercut local workers in terms of wages, etc.
I think the main issue as you allude to is that if they are illegal they are hardly going to petition the authorities because they are not receiving the minimum wage.
Which of course means the source of the problem lies elsewhere.
We were looking around for a new house in West London. One place... On an OK suburban road of semis. The area was on the edge of a nice area and been subsumed by the waves of gentrification.
Within second of looking at the place, it was quite clear - every room was a dormitory for adults. Two bunk beds per room. A bathroom had been converted into another bedroom by ripping out the bath. The residents were pretty much unable to speak English and were plainly terrified of us.
There was no fire alarm system, and the doors weren't fire doors. At least one room exited through another room. So a death trap in the event of fire in the wrong place. The wiring was lethal looking.
I spoke to the estate agent. He was quite unapologetic - he didn't normally do the slum stuff. But this was a great opportunity.
If you know the area, there are a fair few similar - but they are increasingly being sold up and the occupants sent to the next slum location.
The garden was full of push bikes for various delivery services - mainly Deliveroo.
The house was on the market again recently - a superficial paint job after the occupants were evicted, it looked like, from the photos.
Didn't really speak to the occupants - who were quite definitely illegal immigrants. I'd happily beat the landlord to a pulp, though.
Young illegals in the black economy are contributing to our national wealth by dint of their slave labour. What will happen to them in the future? No money, no qualifications, no benefits, no healthcare and, in the end, no energy to pedal a bike.
Yes, but don't worry. We are more evil than doing this -
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
The "ruling elite" aren't the ones actually raping, though, are they?
It's a truism that rulers can only do things by getting other people to do their bidding - for example, the NKVD/KGB/FSB wouldn't have got/get anywhere without willing informants. And "I was only following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse for at least 75 years.
Sure. But I wasn't responding about the criminal "soldiers", only about the notion that ordinary Russians are part of a "criminal nation and a criminal culture". When I streamed Russian TV waiting for one of the Putin rallies there were TV adverts selling the same old shit we have to the same old people who look like us and have the same lives and desires and experiences. There is no evil empire, and there never was. Just people being lied to by savages hoping to turn people into supporters of savagery.
Russia and China both are very evil empires.
Yes most of the people in those empires may have no desire to do evil, but that's true of most empires throughout history. The ordinary people suffer for the evil actions of their leaders and generally want little more than 'bread and circuses'.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Paddington 3: Rwanda and back again.
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
Paddington Bear’s visa status is never explained in the books.
Also, in Asterix in Britain, Asterix and Obelix (and Dogmatix) cross the Channel in a small boat, avoiding the authorities. Would Suella approve?
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
That makes my point doesn't it? The British aren't all like that. That's the PB perception that Suella is a great vote winner for the Tories is misplaced. If I can quote my own post
"None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it."
The figures you show which I hadn't seen bear this out. 37% don't want any 16% want more the rest have no view. So assuming the 37% aren't all Tory it looks like I was about right
You said: "Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text."
No you were not right. You don't even seem to be capable of comprehending your own words.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
I salute your dedication to the washing of beggars' feet.
Is that the only Christian behaviour you can think of?
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
The "ruling elite" aren't the ones actually raping, though, are they?
It's a truism that rulers can only do things by getting other people to do their bidding - for example, the NKVD/KGB/FSB wouldn't have got/get anywhere without willing informants. And "I was only following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse for at least 75 years.
Sure. But I wasn't responding about the criminal "soldiers", only about the notion that ordinary Russians are part of a "criminal nation and a criminal culture". When I streamed Russian TV waiting for one of the Putin rallies there were TV adverts selling the same old shit we have to the same old people who look like us and have the same lives and desires and experiences. There is no evil empire, and there never was. Just people being lied to by savages hoping to turn people into supporters of savagery.
Russia is hardly a totalitarian state where you can't get access to information like North Korea. Putin achieved and maintained power through nationalist shtick, complete with open beating of gay people on the streets and sending women's rights activists to Siberia. These things were well publicized in Russia because it made him more popular. Russian people lapped up the idea of Russia domineering its neighbours. The culture needs a complete reset, like Germany post-1945.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Paddington 3: Rwanda and back again.
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
Paddington Bear’s visa status is never explained in the books.
Also, in Asterix in Britain, Asterix and Obelix (and Dogmatix) cross the Channel in a small boat, avoiding the authorities. Would Suella approve?
If BP use their larger profits to buy back shares in their own company, does that mean the money used is now sheltered from tax?
Does it also mean the share price of their own company rises, thus increasing the value of their company?
?
Not exactly.
Tax gets extremely complicated, any tax due should still be due, but there's always potential loopholes which is why we need tax simplification making it harder to avoid tax.
Share buybacks increase the value of the shares that remain typically, but don't generally increase the value of the company. Market Cap of a firm is value of shares multiplied by number of shares. Share buybacks increase share price, but reduce number of shares outstanding, so the increase in share price would have to more than offset the reduction in shares outstanding.
TL;DR - Maybe. Maybe not. Should be not, but can't rule it out.
Plus it is legitimate for investors to question what their growth/investment strategy is if the best use of surplus cash is to spend it enhancing eps rather than growing the business.
Possibly, but if your investment is maxed out then there are legitimate reasons to engage in share buybacks, especially if you have surplus cash. Its really not much different to issuing dividends in rewarding shareholders which is what all firms are there for at the end of the day.
Firms share values are ultimately related to a risk-adjusted TVM of expected future dividends per share. If there's fewer shares outstanding, the TVM of expected future dividends per share increases.
If you think about it, in theory if a firm has the cash to buy back half its outstanding shares without affecting future cash available for dividends, then the future dividends per share doubles.
DDMs are the poor man's analytic tool, though.
Because if you are in steady state ex-growth then it might make sense but people value companies based upon expected growth over and above the cost of capital.
Why not buy back 100% of the shares and have done with it.
Expected growth means future dividends are expected to be higher, it still all comes back ultimately to what the shareholders can expect to get in the future.
You can't buy back 100% of the shares, there must always be one share outstanding at the very least. But many firms can and do go private and remove publicly traded shares, so there's no reason you can't do that in theory.
Most firms can't afford to. Publicly traded shares normally are a needed form of raising capital, at the price of diluting the share of ownership other shareholders have.
Dividends are a distraction. While BP is not a high growth company investors assign higher value to higher growth prospects. Dividends can also be manipulated by management. What was the dividend payout ratio, and PEx of Google.
Generally, although I appreciate you have many years of investment analysis under your belt, investors are wary of share buybacks and DDM valuations.
There is a world of difference between dividends and expected future dividends.
Past dividends do nothing to aid future dividends happening, which is why growth is valued. Growth improves future dividends more than past dividends do.
What are you talking about past dividends? For a DDM the clue is in the name.
1. Braverman lived in France for two years, as an Erasmus Programme student and then as an Entente Cordiale Scholar, where she studied a master's degree in European and French law at Panthéon-Sorbonne University
2. She is named after the character Sue Ellen Ewing from the American television soap opera Dallas
I doubt that she's a drunk, but she's certainly an unfit Home Secretary.
Even if she was a drunk she woudl be an improvement on the dross that is the Cabinet
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Paddington 3: Rwanda and back again.
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
Paddington Bear’s visa status is never explained in the books.
Also, in Asterix in Britain, Asterix and Obelix (and Dogmatix) cross the Channel in a small boat, avoiding the authorities. Would Suella approve?
I'm more worried about the casual acceptance of a talking bear tbh. Should at least make the evening news.
From the FBI summary of the Mirandized interview of the assailant: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1587155462184656896 How did DePape get into the house? "DEPAPE stated that he broke into the house through a glass door, which was a difficult task that required the use of a hammer."... Motive: "DEPAPE stated that he was going to hold Nancy hostage...DEPAPE articulated he viewed Nancy as the 'leader of the pack' of lies told by the Democratic Party...DEPAPE also later explained that by breaking Nancy’s kneecaps, she would then have to be wheeled into Congress.."...
The deep state has got to him
As one of the apparently brainiest posters of PB observed - it's "impossible" to guess which of the conflicting stories about this case is likely to be true. Quoting what the FBI say have released about it is a sure sign that one is a gullible libtard, according to some of the PB geniuses.
I never referenced any of the Musk-type theories
My focus was on the bizarrely blurred picture of the miscreant. If you believed the early reports, the intruder was a straight down the line MAGA-Trump QAnon antisemite
And yet
“While reports indicate that DePape was an unhinged, far-right conspiracy theorist, neighbors noted he and Taub's politics were much more muddied.
They told Shellenberger that the couple had Black Live Matter flags and an LGBT rainbow flag outside their home, but also said that any liberal leanings appeared to be shallow and performative. “
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
So says a pathetic Anglophobe, reposted by another Anglophobe loser, who is a pitiable joke on this site, who so hates his own country that he lives in another one, and has no friends so spends his whole time doing nothing else than posting hate filled shite online
Poor old Adolf Foreskin, ranting and raving his bigotry against Scots. What a sadsack. You will do yourself an injury Adolf , fat gammony goosesteppers should be more careful.
I have Scots in my family dickhead. I do not have bigotry toward any person of Scottish heritage, I leave bigotry to sad thickos such as yourself and @StuartDickson and your small minded and unconcealed Anglophobia. You are a silly stupid, angry little man that is so intensely moronic that you are still a bumlicking follower of a man so vile that he was described by his own QC as "a bully and a sex pest". And you think this is someone worthy of following? Only someone with fascist tendencies or intense immorality or stupidity could want to follow someone like that. Fortunately for Salmond there are people like yourself who have all three
Now go back to ranting about how unfair it is that you got no education and watch out for your wife when she comes back from the bingo and screams at you for being such a sad loser.
Russia is a criminal nation and a criminal culture. The barbarity runs deep. It needs to be broken up and it's constituent parts can start anew.
Hang on. The ruling elite are responsible for this. I don't believe for a minute that Russian civilians are sat in their apartments cheering the idea of their soldiers torturing and raping. This is the tragedy of this situation - Russians and Ukrainians are so similar.
A glance at the sort of stuff aired on Russian TV suggests that's not entirely true.
And the behaviour of some Russian tourists abroad…
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
I salute your dedication to the washing of beggars' feet.
Is that the only Christian behaviour you can think of?
1. Braverman lived in France for two years, as an Erasmus Programme student and then as an Entente Cordiale Scholar, where she studied a master's degree in European and French law at Panthéon-Sorbonne University
2. She is named after the character Sue Ellen Ewing from the American television soap opera Dallas
I doubt that she's a drunk, but she's certainly an unfit Home Secretary.
Even if she was a drunk she woudl be an improvement on the dross that is the Cabinet
And you think someone as uneducated and generally thick as you is able to pass judgement? lol.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
The President of Ukraine is the voice of Paddington Bear.
That required a google, didn't realise it was literally true (in Ukraine language version). Should we expect a darker Paddington 3 in which the friendly bear has to fight off a much larger, agressive bear?
Paddington 3: Rwanda and back again.
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
Paddington Bear’s visa status is never explained in the books.
Also, in Asterix in Britain, Asterix and Obelix (and Dogmatix) cross the Channel in a small boat, avoiding the authorities. Would Suella approve?
I'm more worried about the casual acceptance of a talking bear tbh. Should at least make the evening news.
Depends what the bear says and whether it is in the cabinet.
If BP use their larger profits to buy back shares in their own company, does that mean the money used is now sheltered from tax?
Does it also mean the share price of their own company rises, thus increasing the value of their company?
?
Not exactly.
Tax gets extremely complicated, any tax due should still be due, but there's always potential loopholes which is why we need tax simplification making it harder to avoid tax.
Share buybacks increase the value of the shares that remain typically, but don't generally increase the value of the company. Market Cap of a firm is value of shares multiplied by number of shares. Share buybacks increase share price, but reduce number of shares outstanding, so the increase in share price would have to more than offset the reduction in shares outstanding.
TL;DR - Maybe. Maybe not. Should be not, but can't rule it out.
Plus it is legitimate for investors to question what their growth/investment strategy is if the best use of surplus cash is to spend it enhancing eps rather than growing the business.
Possibly, but if your investment is maxed out then there are legitimate reasons to engage in share buybacks, especially if you have surplus cash. Its really not much different to issuing dividends in rewarding shareholders which is what all firms are there for at the end of the day.
Firms share values are ultimately related to a risk-adjusted TVM of expected future dividends per share. If there's fewer shares outstanding, the TVM of expected future dividends per share increases.
If you think about it, in theory if a firm has the cash to buy back half its outstanding shares without affecting future cash available for dividends, then the future dividends per share doubles.
DDMs are the poor man's analytic tool, though.
Because if you are in steady state ex-growth then it might make sense but people value companies based upon expected growth over and above the cost of capital.
Why not buy back 100% of the shares and have done with it.
Expected growth means future dividends are expected to be higher, it still all comes back ultimately to what the shareholders can expect to get in the future.
You can't buy back 100% of the shares, there must always be one share outstanding at the very least. But many firms can and do go private and remove publicly traded shares, so there's no reason you can't do that in theory.
Most firms can't afford to. Publicly traded shares normally are a needed form of raising capital, at the price of diluting the share of ownership other shareholders have.
Dividends are a distraction. While BP is not a high growth company investors assign higher value to higher growth prospects. Dividends can also be manipulated by management. What was the dividend payout ratio, and PEx of Google.
Generally, although I appreciate you have many years of investment analysis under your belt, investors are wary of share buybacks and DDM valuations.
There is a world of difference between dividends and expected future dividends.
Past dividends do nothing to aid future dividends happening, which is why growth is valued. Growth improves future dividends more than past dividends do.
What are you talking about past dividends? For a DDM the clue is in the name.
Because you appear to be conflating the two.
Most DDM models are typically flawed by paying too much attention to past dividends, which is the fallacy you made by saying that dividends can be manipulated by management or asking what the dividend payout ratio of Google is.
Google in the future will pay dividends, the fact that it isn't yet is neither here nor there in calculating its DDM if you do it properly. If you've modelled zero dividends for Alphabet, your model is borked.
None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it.
The Nasty Party flag is fluttering like we haven't seen for years and that doesn't usually spell a good result for the Tories
I don't believe that every person who is concerned about economic migrants abusing the system (for example coming from Albania) is a racist. At heart the UK is a country of fair play - just try queue jumping at the post office or pub and see what happens. Most people are willing to help genuine refugees, but they no longer believe that the 40,000 arriving over the channel from France are genuine. That might be wrong, but that is the impression that they have.
Racism is nothing to do with fair play. It's visceral. I agree with you about fair play and the British are the best queuers in the world! Most are prepared to help Ukrainian's because they are blond and blue eyed but not Afghans or Syrians who suffered and are suffering at least as much.
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
Bit harsh on PB members... No doubt it is easier for ethnic whites to sympathise more with Ukranians than Syrians etc, but its also cultural, not just race.
What are the specific cultural ties between the UK and Ukraine?
The names of our countries both begin "uk".
Religion, both European nations, drinking alcohol for three. Certainly more in common that Syrians - generally not Christian, don't drink alcohol, middle eastern nation.
Syria ~10% Christian Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant) UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
I think that might be in terms of 'are you a Christian?'. In reality we are coming up to Christmas, which is huge in this country as is Easter (to a lesser extent) and the country as a whole has nearly 2000 years of heritage of Christianity. Most people behave in their lives according to a Christian life style, even if they no longer believe in God. I do, for one.
I salute your dedication to the washing of beggars' feet.
Is that the only Christian behaviour you can think of?
If you can turn water into wine PM me
I can, just need some fruit, some sugar, a bit of yeast and time. Besides, I think that is some elite level Christianing to be able to do that.
From the FBI summary of the Mirandized interview of the assailant: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1587155462184656896 How did DePape get into the house? "DEPAPE stated that he broke into the house through a glass door, which was a difficult task that required the use of a hammer."... Motive: "DEPAPE stated that he was going to hold Nancy hostage...DEPAPE articulated he viewed Nancy as the 'leader of the pack' of lies told by the Democratic Party...DEPAPE also later explained that by breaking Nancy’s kneecaps, she would then have to be wheeled into Congress.."...
The deep state has got to him
As one of the apparently brainiest posters of PB observed - it's "impossible" to guess which of the conflicting stories about this case is likely to be true. Quoting what the FBI say have released about it is a sure sign that one is a gullible libtard, according to some of the PB geniuses.
I never referenced any of the Musk-type theories
My focus was on the bizarrely blurred picture of the miscreant. If you believed the early reports, the intruder was a straight down the line MAGA-Trump QAnon antisemite
And yet
“While reports indicate that DePape was an unhinged, far-right conspiracy theorist, neighbors noted he and Taub's politics were much more muddied.
They told Shellenberger that the couple had Black Live Matter flags and an LGBT rainbow flag outside their home, but also said that any liberal leanings appeared to be shallow and performative. “
If BP use their larger profits to buy back shares in their own company, does that mean the money used is now sheltered from tax?
Does it also mean the share price of their own company rises, thus increasing the value of their company?
?
Not exactly.
Tax gets extremely complicated, any tax due should still be due, but there's always potential loopholes which is why we need tax simplification making it harder to avoid tax.
Share buybacks increase the value of the shares that remain typically, but don't generally increase the value of the company. Market Cap of a firm is value of shares multiplied by number of shares. Share buybacks increase share price, but reduce number of shares outstanding, so the increase in share price would have to more than offset the reduction in shares outstanding.
TL;DR - Maybe. Maybe not. Should be not, but can't rule it out.
Plus it is legitimate for investors to question what their growth/investment strategy is if the best use of surplus cash is to spend it enhancing eps rather than growing the business.
Possibly, but if your investment is maxed out then there are legitimate reasons to engage in share buybacks, especially if you have surplus cash. Its really not much different to issuing dividends in rewarding shareholders which is what all firms are there for at the end of the day.
Firms share values are ultimately related to a risk-adjusted TVM of expected future dividends per share. If there's fewer shares outstanding, the TVM of expected future dividends per share increases.
If you think about it, in theory if a firm has the cash to buy back half its outstanding shares without affecting future cash available for dividends, then the future dividends per share doubles.
DDMs are the poor man's analytic tool, though.
Because if you are in steady state ex-growth then it might make sense but people value companies based upon expected growth over and above the cost of capital.
Why not buy back 100% of the shares and have done with it.
Expected growth means future dividends are expected to be higher, it still all comes back ultimately to what the shareholders can expect to get in the future.
You can't buy back 100% of the shares, there must always be one share outstanding at the very least. But many firms can and do go private and remove publicly traded shares, so there's no reason you can't do that in theory.
Most firms can't afford to. Publicly traded shares normally are a needed form of raising capital, at the price of diluting the share of ownership other shareholders have.
Dividends are a distraction. While BP is not a high growth company investors assign higher value to higher growth prospects. Dividends can also be manipulated by management. What was the dividend payout ratio, and PEx of Google.
Generally, although I appreciate you have many years of investment analysis under your belt, investors are wary of share buybacks and DDM valuations.
There is a world of difference between dividends and expected future dividends.
Past dividends do nothing to aid future dividends happening, which is why growth is valued. Growth improves future dividends more than past dividends do.
What are you talking about past dividends? For a DDM the clue is in the name.
Because you appear to be conflating the two.
Most DDM models are typically flawed by paying too much attention to past dividends, which is the fallacy you made by saying that dividends can be manipulated by management or asking what the dividend payout ratio of Google is.
Google in the future will pay dividends, the fact that it isn't yet is neither here nor there in calculating its DDM if you do it properly. If you've modelled zero dividends for Alphabet, your model is borked.
You have answered your own question. Stock analysis is a very imprecise science and DDM models are at the extreme end of imprecision - they can be flawed in many ways including weighting past dividends as you note and hence it is a huge call on management's longevity and policy, on cashflows, and all else. Which of course as an analyst you are trying to work out but it is a distraction.
And as I said, distrusted by much of the investment analysis community.
We started this with BP's share buybacks. An activity that raises the eyebrows of analysts.
During the summer artillery fest, the numbers averaged around 200 per day. There was then a sharp increase from the last week of August, with the 7-day average peaking at 450 on 11 Sep, as the liberation of the Izyum axis reached its crescendo, before steadily dropping back to summer levels.
Then starting the last week of Sept, we saw another new peak starting, with 7D average reaching 475 as Ukraine took major ground in Kherson and Lyman and surrounds.
Things then settled to a higher new daily average of 350.
Over the last 4-5 days we’ve seen a new peak commencing, of the type which has historically preceded a major territorial gain. Moving average still rising and at 566 today. Will be interesting to see if these means we’re going to see a major shift in the battle lines in north Luhansk/Kherson, or if this is just desperate human wave tactics from Russia against the deeply dug lines around the Donetsk / Bahkmut.
I believe it is the mobilised troops being thrown in as cannon fodder. They have neither the training or the equipment required. Ukraine has an artillery advantage and they are being pulverised. Mud season has set in so movement is quite difficult at present which I think explains the lack of movement on the frontline. However, Russia is still making concerted effort in some locations (e.g. Bakhmut) which is where heavy losses are coming.
What puts it in perspective is that in 20 years in Afghanistan the British Army lost 454 men. I'm sure we all remember the reading out of individual names in Parliament when they were lost. If Ukraine's numbers are accurate then Russia is losing more than that - every single day!
Farage's poster told the the story about our view on immigrants and asylum seekers more succinctly than any text. Fortunately not everyone thinks like Farage though reading PB it isn't obvious
You come out with rubbish like this, because if fits your ignorant anecdotal view of the UK, and ignore surveys which show it really isn't true.
One of the things which gives cause for optimism is the size of the immigration-positive vote.
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
Surely what that poll tells you that is relevant to this morning's discussion is that all those who think Suella/Sunak have tapped a goldmine (nearly all PB Tories who posted earlier) are wrong.
They made the assumption that Tories=Leavers=anti immigrant and therefore what she is doing is preaching to the choir and the more blood and thunder she makes it the louder the choir sings
This poll (and yours truly!) suggest that is probably bullshit
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
Aston Martin and Lotus aren't mass market car makes, they need bigger carmakers.
Aston Martin are just rebadged Fords.
Ford have not had anything to do with AM since 2007. Some of the older engines share some internal architecture with ancient Ford engines like the Duratec V6. Now they are just a marketing operation that relies on Mercedes powertrains and electronics.
I was being a little facetious from my time at Gaydon.
There was certainly shared components a few years after.
I just used to find it amusing people were buying a premium vehicle that was a reskinned Ford.
Mercedes seem to have a lot of fingers in many pies. They were involved with that heap of crap Infinite. The premium Nissan brand. Didn’t last long.
During the summer artillery fest, the numbers averaged around 200 per day. There was then a sharp increase from the last week of August, with the 7-day average peaking at 450 on 11 Sep, as the liberation of the Izyum axis reached its crescendo, before steadily dropping back to summer levels.
Then starting the last week of Sept, we saw another new peak starting, with 7D average reaching 475 as Ukraine took major ground in Kherson and Lyman and surrounds.
Things then settled to a higher new daily average of 350.
Over the last 4-5 days we’ve seen a new peak commencing, of the type which has historically preceded a major territorial gain. Moving average still rising and at 566 today. Will be interesting to see if these means we’re going to see a major shift in the battle lines in north Luhansk/Kherson, or if this is just desperate human wave tactics from Russia against the deeply dug lines around the Donetsk / Bahkmut.
Point of order, you don't reach a crescendo - crescendo is the process of reaching a peak/summit
Britain is now a nasty, shabby loser: a pitiable joke abroad - and cruel, petty and useless at home. Poverty spirals, refugees are treated like animals, the government snubs COP27, the UN and world leaders call us out. Everything is broken. Brexit broke it
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https://brandfinance.com/press-releases/global-soft-power-index-2022-usa-bounces-back-better-to-top-of-nation-brand-ranking
Ukraine ~87% Christian (~2% Protestant)
UK ~46% Christian
So, the UK is about halfway between Syria and Ukraine in terms of Christianity, slightly closer to Syria. (We've got lots of atheists/agnostics.)
Within second of looking at the place, it was quite clear - every room was a dormitory for adults. Two bunk beds per room. A bathroom had been converted into another bedroom by ripping out the bath. The residents were pretty much unable to speak English and were plainly terrified of us.
There was no fire alarm system, and the doors weren't fire doors. At least one room exited through another room. So a death trap in the event of fire in the wrong place. The wiring was lethal looking.
I spoke to the estate agent. He was quite unapologetic - he didn't normally do the slum stuff. But this was a great opportunity.
If you know the area, there are a fair few similar - but they are increasingly being sold up and the occupants sent to the next slum location.
The garden was full of push bikes for various delivery services - mainly Deliveroo.
The house was on the market again recently - a superficial paint job after the occupants were evicted, it looked like, from the photos.
Didn't really speak to the occupants - who were quite definitely illegal immigrants. I'd happily beat the landlord to a pulp, though.
Speaker Lindsay Hoyle has told the Commons there is no evidence of bullying or undue influence being placed on MPs during the vote on fracking
He says an investigation also found that no MP was pushed
https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1587408556181053440
However, the problem for the Tories (and presumably the reason for their language and approach) is that they are increasingly fishing in that 37% pool.
I'd say the default UK position tends to be not quite as bad as the other side and occasionally not the right side. Iraq started off as against the baddy, but by some magical King Midas in reverse shit we managed to transform ourseves into the wrong side and as a result fucked up the region for decades.
With respect to immigration generally, I would say we probably need more to grow economically, but those are migrants that offer an economic gain (often EU origin). As I say, it is nuanced.
It's a truism that rulers can only do things by getting other people to do their bidding - for example, the NKVD/KGB/FSB wouldn't have got/get anywhere without willing informants. And "I was only following orders" hasn't been a valid excuse for at least 75 years.
For what it's worth I didn't go looking for good data, that's the first appropriate survey from a reputable organisation I found. I'm fairly confident other surveys show a similar pattern.
It's also worth noting that the big survey from the Tony Blair think tank about the British view of our relationship with the EU showed that broadly people do not want an immigration system that favours EU citizens. People want a "fair" system that works for all. So the idea that we in the UK prefer certain migrants doesn't seem particularly strong.
"None of this looks good for the government. The racists are asking themselves If this lot can't even keep the foreigners out what are they good at? And though there's a feeling (certainly on PB ) that hate of 'the other' goes down well with Tory voters there are more than a few who are repulsed by it."
The figures you show which I hadn't seen bear this out. 37% don't want any 16% want more the rest have no view. So assuming the 37% aren't all Tory it looks like I was about right
Follow Paddington's adventures as he falls victim to Suella's dream to deport him to Africa and how Albanians traffick him back to a Dover, where he struggles with tiny marmalade jars in a 4 star hotel.
Some racists during the referendum took the view, sometimes expressed on here, that EU migration being European was "good" migration and that migration from Pakistan/India etc was "bad" migration that people didn't want.
It's clear that the majority view is not Faragian - you mischaracterising people who say "about the same" as "having no view" is egregious.
In other countries immigration related unhappiness might come down to things like the economic factors in poorer countries, or integration in countries with strong views about national identity, like language and religion. On the whole those seem to be lesser factors in the UK, but the "fairness" aspect makes people furious.
I can certaiinly see the cultural connections between Poland and Ukraine, and why Ukrainians would yearn to be part of the EU, for pragmatic reasons as much as anything.
I tend to be suspicious of the 'we're like close relatives' patter, partly because it's similar to the line that the 'we're all Russo slavs' lads come out with.
Certainly this country can do better in many ways. Certainly this country has not been well-run as of late. And yes I believe Brexit was a mistake. But there is lots to be proud of in this country. This constant self-flagelation, where we have to pretend that we are living in a hellhole mocked, scorned and hated by the rest of the world, and somehow need to feel bad and sorry about it, needs to stop if we are going to get out of our current problems.
You will do yourself an injury Adolf , fat gammony goosesteppers should be more careful.
Yes most of the people in those empires may have no desire to do evil, but that's true of most empires throughout history. The ordinary people suffer for the evil actions of their leaders and generally want little more than 'bread and circuses'.
Also, in Asterix in Britain, Asterix and Obelix (and Dogmatix) cross the Channel in a small boat, avoiding the authorities. Would Suella approve?
No you were not right. You don't even seem to be capable of comprehending your own words.
I never referenced any of the Musk-type theories
My focus was on the bizarrely blurred picture of the miscreant. If you believed the early reports, the intruder was a straight down the line MAGA-Trump QAnon antisemite
And yet
“While reports indicate that DePape was an unhinged, far-right conspiracy theorist, neighbors noted he and Taub's politics were much more muddied.
They told Shellenberger that the couple had Black Live Matter flags and an LGBT rainbow flag outside their home, but also said that any liberal leanings appeared to be shallow and performative. “
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11373605/Paul-Pelosis-alleged-attackers-nudist-ex-lover-reveals-mentally-ill-long-time.html
He has also been a nudist activist and a Green Party member. Only later adopting the far right memes
I always wondered where Martin Day went
Now go back to ranting about how unfair it is that you got no education and watch out for your wife when she comes back from the bingo and screams at you for being such a sad loser.
Most DDM models are typically flawed by paying too much attention to past dividends, which is the fallacy you made by saying that dividends can be manipulated by management or asking what the dividend payout ratio of Google is.
Google in the future will pay dividends, the fact that it isn't yet is neither here nor there in calculating its DDM if you do it properly. If you've modelled zero dividends for Alphabet, your model is borked.
And as I said, distrusted by much of the investment analysis community.
We started this with BP's share buybacks. An activity that raises the eyebrows of analysts.
What puts it in perspective is that in 20 years in Afghanistan the British Army lost 454 men. I'm sure we all remember the reading out of individual names in Parliament when they were lost. If Ukraine's numbers are accurate then Russia is losing more than that - every single day!
They made the assumption that Tories=Leavers=anti immigrant and therefore what she is doing is preaching to the choir and the more blood and thunder she makes it the louder the choir sings
This poll (and yours truly!) suggest that is probably bullshit
There was certainly shared components a few years after.
I just used to find it amusing people were buying a premium vehicle that was a reskinned Ford.
Mercedes seem to have a lot of fingers in many pies. They were involved with that heap of crap Infinite. The premium Nissan brand. Didn’t last long.