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The UKIP conference leader's speech is reaching its climax http://t.co/BbNPKVtR0x0
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Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
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Ok if you say soTOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.0 -
The West is caught saying 'Something must be done', but without the will to actually do anything meaningful
The West's strategy is surely to keep ISIS pinned down whilst the locals acquire the bottle and the wherewithal to take up the slack on the ground.
It's difficult to see what the alternative is.0 -
Mr. D., I have no objection in principle to going to war. I have a massive objection to going to war without the faintest idea of how to win it, or even what a win would look like. All that does is cause huge expenditure of treasure and lives for no good purpose.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Llama, air cover will be very helpful to those forces on the ground. It helped turf the mad bastards out of a critical dam, and helped arrest their advance towards Kurdish areas.
On the diplomatic front, as Rory Someone (Stewart?) said on QT last night, we should be trying our best to cement a strong regional alliance against ISIS.
If we do nothing, ISIS could well overrun Syria and Iraq. And then Jordan, and Lebanon would be vulnerable. At what point would we take action?
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Isam
As usual you lose the argument and resort to personal insults.
Happens every time.0 -
What facts are you offering? What evidence?___Bobajob___ said:Isam yes.
Again I ask you what proportion of expensive bags sold are men's bags?
Men just don't spend anything like as much money on clothes and accessories as women. That's why ladieswear dominates department stores and millions more square feet are put over to ladieswear than menswear. To say this is not sexist, as you suggest. It is merely a simple statement of fact and anyone who denies it is ignoring the clear evidence in front of them.
Your £200 shoes? PB Kipper anecdote vs empirical retail evidence.
Mr O'Flynn wants to " investigate the feasibility of imposing a luxury goods rate of VAT."
http://www.ukip.org/patrick_o_flynn_lays_out_ukip_s_economic_plan
Why are you prattling on about women's fashion?0 -
I must confess that I never thought of Mr Carswell as a *leader* aspiring or otherwise. He enjoys ploughing his own furrow too much and the intellectual side of ideas.
My query would be that UKIP is a small pond and Mr Carswell has a big ego. He may have no designs on Nigel's job - but that doesn't make for happy bedfellows if they fall out. And Nigel has form when it comes to falling out with people.
I'm just appreciating the gaiety it all adds to the nation for now.TOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.0 -
"OK if you say so"??isam said:
Ok if you say soTOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.
Sam that is not the level of debate politicians, captains of industry, the great and the good and perhaps even Victoria Beckham, talking of spenny handbags, flock to PB to read.
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Dave
Again - O'Flynn is the one citing shoes and bags, not me.
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You really are knocking them out with your quality of debate today ISam.isam said:
Ok if you say soTOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.0 -
I agree it is certainly a more colourful place.Plato said:I must confess that I never thought of Mr Carswell as a *leader* aspiring or otherwise. He enjoys ploughing his own furrow too much and the intellectual side of ideas.
My query would be that UKIP is a small pond and Mr Carswell has a big ego. He may have no designs on Nigel's job - but that doesn't make for happy bedfellows if they fall out. And Nigel has form when it comes to falling out with people.
I'm just appreciating the gaiety it all adds to the nation for now.TOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.
And as for (the other ie non-Cam) DC, he may not have wanted to lead the Cons but this is a different kettle of ferragamos.
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Wouldn't it be easier to chuck the Germans and other pacifist nations out of the alliance. They all make a mockery of the spending thresholds. One hopes the next government will increase military spending to ensure we are well protected against a newly belligerent Russia.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, I understand that and agree with you.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
Where it becomes tricky is what exactly would be done. I don't think NATO would fire on "Latvian Rebels" supported by Russian "humanitarian aid". I feel the West may well end up preferring the collapse of NATO to war with Russia. Far too many are wobbly, too weak, too scared about Russia and horrifed by war; they will find any excuse not to pull the trigger. It's now a very fractured alliance.
Do you disagree?
In terms of deterring Russia, now. What do you think we should do? Station troops permanently in the Baltic States in defiance of our previous agreements? Up our defence spending? Increase our presence in Germany? All of them?
I'm interested in your specific suggestions.0 -
You're the one who assumes that only women wear shoes. Only women use bags. Only women buy cars.___Bobajob___ said:Dave
Again - O'Flynn is the one citing shoes and bags, not me.
I suspect you'll find that the number of rich women, is matched by the number of rich men.0 -
Mr. Llama, air strikes help support ground troops and to pen in ISIS. Victory is the destruction of the 'state'.
Without air strikes it is entirely possible the dam would remain in ISIS hands and they would've made more headway against the Kurds. Airstrikes aren't a magic bullet, as it were, but are necessary and are helpful.0 -
I'm amazed, given the composition of the Russian federation, that the Kremlin thinks that it's a smart longterm strategy to foment separatism in its neighbours. It has far more to lose from this game than to gain:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_Russia0 -
Actually I think Patrick Cockburn has a very good critique of Cameron's policy in the independent. I hope MPs think very hard before committing this country to yet another war.HurstLlama said:
Mr. D., I have no objection in principle to going to war. I have a massive objection to going to war without the faintest idea of how to win it, or even what a win would look like. All that does is cause huge expenditure of treasure and lives for no good purpose.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Llama, air cover will be very helpful to those forces on the ground. It helped turf the mad bastards out of a critical dam, and helped arrest their advance towards Kurdish areas.
On the diplomatic front, as Rory Someone (Stewart?) said on QT last night, we should be trying our best to cement a strong regional alliance against ISIS.
If we do nothing, ISIS could well overrun Syria and Iraq. And then Jordan, and Lebanon would be vulnerable. At what point would we take action?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/on-the-eve-of-yet-another-war-in-iraq-is-the-uks-strategy-any-more-coherent-than-in-2003-9756567.html0 -
Dave
Yet another kipper who doesn't grasp the definition of the word overwhelmingly0 -
Ha! You can be my Jimmy Choo, anytime ;^ )TOPPING said:
I agree it is certainly a more colourful place.Plato said:I must confess that I never thought of Mr Carswell as a *leader* aspiring or otherwise. He enjoys ploughing his own furrow too much and the intellectual side of ideas.
My query would be that UKIP is a small pond and Mr Carswell has a big ego. He may have no designs on Nigel's job - but that doesn't make for happy bedfellows if they fall out. And Nigel has form when it comes to falling out with people.
I'm just appreciating the gaiety it all adds to the nation for now.TOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.
And as for (the other ie non-Cam) DC, he may not have wanted to lead the Cons but this is a different kettle of ferragamos.0 -
Bobajob: a Bob who doesn't grasp the difference between assertion, and fact.___Bobajob___ said:Dave
Yet another kipper who doesn't grasp the definition of the word overwhelmingly
But that doesn't mean you matter less that the other Bobs, Bob. You're a Bob too.0 -
I haven't insulted you, I'm being nice___Bobajob___ said:Isam
As usual you lose the argument and resort to personal insults.
Happens every time.
You've made a stupid comment, assumed only women buy expensive shoes and bags, citing anecdotal evidence from your wife
Then tried to rebut my reply as "anecdotal" while forgetting that the tax on expensive cars, in your line of thinking , could easily be described as a tax on men
Which you'd probably have called sexist if someone else had said it!
Go back to saying PB this PB that only onPB or changing your login or something until you learn to argue properly
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Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.0 -
Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo0 -
Perhaps we could abide by the agreement struck by which the Soviet Union voluntarily withdrew from Eastern Europe and reverse NATO expansion. Abolishing NATO would also make sense as the Warsaw Pact no longer exists.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, I understand that and agree with you.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
Where it becomes tricky is what exactly would be done. I don't think NATO would fire on "Latvian Rebels" supported by Russian "humanitarian aid". I feel the West may well end up preferring the collapse of NATO to war with Russia. Far too many are wobbly, too weak, too scared about Russia and horrifed by war; they will find any excuse not to pull the trigger. It's now a very fractured alliance.
Do you disagree?
In terms of deterring Russia, now. What do you think we should do? Station troops permanently in the Baltic States in defiance of our previous agreements? Up our defence spending? Increase our presence in Germany? All of them?
I'm interested in your specific suggestions.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-u-s-ambassador-to-the-soviet-union-the-u-s-and-nato-are-provoking-the-ukrainian-crisis/53996020 -
Why stop at Beligium? We should look to the plucky Luxembourg defence forces!HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.0 -
Sorry I'm trying yo answer questions about Carswell etc while trading the t20 cricket... I don't think Carswell wants be leader of ukip, if you do , ok... I'm not being glib, just don't want to argue, neither of us know do we?! XTOPPING said:
"OK if you say so"??isam said:
Ok if you say soTOPPING said:
Hmm not so sure (about his leadership intentions).isam said:
No not you... Although I should nt think he wants to be the bossTOPPING said:
Sam we're not saying that Douglas won't fit in, just that it's going to be a tight squeeze with Nigel in there also.isam said:To all the people forecasting Carswell wouldn't fit in at ukip...
Michael Heaver (@Michael_Heaver)
26/09/2014 14:34
Douglas Carswell: Doesn't it feel great to be in UKIP? #UKIPConf14
Carswell for leader!
A couple of people though Carswell was a pro immigration kinda guy who would hate the ruffians at ukip...
I had to link to about a dozen anti immigration quotes from Carswell before they shut up
He left the Cons because they weren't close enough to his views and now he is the big fish with the opportunity to shape UKIP's strategy.
What better way to shape a party's strategy than to be leader of it.
Plus he is a politician. He didn't enter politics not to take the opportunities when they present themselves.
Sam that is not the level of debate politicians, captains of industry, the great and the good and perhaps even Victoria Beckham, talking of spenny handbags, flock to PB to read.0 -
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
0 -
That's an interesting idea.Sean_F said:
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.0 -
Abolishing NATO? Is that your real agenda?FalseFlag said:
Perhaps we could abide by the agreement struck by which the Soviet Union voluntarily withdrew from Eastern Europe and reverse NATO expansion. Abolishing NATO would also make sense as the Warsaw Pact no longer exists.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, I understand that and agree with you.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
Where it becomes tricky is what exactly would be done. I don't think NATO would fire on "Latvian Rebels" supported by Russian "humanitarian aid". I feel the West may well end up preferring the collapse of NATO to war with Russia. Far too many are wobbly, too weak, too scared about Russia and horrifed by war; they will find any excuse not to pull the trigger. It's now a very fractured alliance.
Do you disagree?
In terms of deterring Russia, now. What do you think we should do? Station troops permanently in the Baltic States in defiance of our previous agreements? Up our defence spending? Increase our presence in Germany? All of them?
I'm interested in your specific suggestions.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-u-s-ambassador-to-the-soviet-union-the-u-s-and-nato-are-provoking-the-ukrainian-crisis/53996020 -
Belgium supplied ground forces and F16's in Afghanistan - why wouldn't they commit troops to the Baltic states?HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.0 -
Isam
Yet again wrong. I didn't say only, or exclusively, I said overwhelmingly. As I have said. Duh!
I would call you a wally for getting it wrong yet again but I won't because unlike you I don't resort to childish insults.0 -
You da man!___Bobajob___ said:Isam
Yet again wrong. I didn't say only, or exclusively, I said overwhelmingly. As I have said. Duh!
I would call you a wally for getting it wrong yet again but I won't because unlike you I don't resort to childish insults.0 -
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
0 -
Correct. NATO was created for three reasons, "To keep the Sovs out, the Yanks in and the Germans down". All three of those reasons had disappeared more than twenty years ago. NATO is now an anchronism that does more harm than good.FalseFlag said:
Perhaps we could abide by the agreement struck by which the Soviet Union voluntarily withdrew from Eastern Europe and reverse NATO expansion. Abolishing NATO would also make sense as the Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-u-s-ambassador-to-the-soviet-union-the-u-s-and-nato-are-provoking-the-ukrainian-crisis/5399602
That is not to say that there are not benefits to be found under mutual defence agreements but such agreements need to be mutual, realistic and related to defence.0 -
All nations in NATO should commit a credible portion of their national forces as an expeditionary NATO defence force. This must include heavy ground defence (APCs, mobile artillery) and light infantry, army air support, navy, sea air defence, ground air strike, and amphibious assets. It must have rapid reaction capability and be credible to defeat a sizeable ground army c.25,000+ men.MaxPB said:
Wouldn't it be easier to chuck the Germans and other pacifist nations out of the alliance. They all make a mockery of the spending thresholds. One hopes the next government will increase military spending to ensure we are well protected against a newly belligerent Russia.Casino_Royale said:Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
New command and intelligence structures should be set up. All NATO members should adhere to the minimum 2% funding. Annual exercises should be held, the balance of them in eastern Europe. We should re-consider some form of missile shield.
We should also have SIS, and SAS troops, on the ground in Poland and the Baltic states to improve our intelligence gathering capabilities. Occasionally, Russia should know they are there.
Politically, there needs to be a redeclaration of the principle of mutual defence after that, signed in blood by all NATO government leaders. But only when backed up by the military strength and intelligence force increases. Incursions and subterfuge can then be properly publicised by the West, so the world truly knows what Russia is up to, and domestic debates can be held to build public opinion behind the need to resist incursion.
The Russians will get wind of all that, and understand it. They should then back off.0 -
The continual bickering of boba-whatever-he's- called-now and isam is getting bloody annoying. You pair do it on every thread!0
-
As a man who has bought £200 trainers in the past, I now feel the victim of a pincer movement.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
0 -
Mr. F, to be fair, Belgium does have an excellent F1 circuit, and makes exceedingly good chocolates.0
-
Not myself, but you're right about it being a great idea.
I'm helping out at the Sally Army in a couple of weeks, and have done client survey work for the local housing team. The Big Society wasn't pitched correctly all that time ago, but it's alive and kicking.
I've met some really interesting people along the way so I wouldn't claim it was at all altruistic!state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo0 -
Disagree. Russia now needs to be 'kept out', and the Yanks are needed more than ever - Europe is essentially defenceless.HurstLlama said:
Correct. NATO was created for three reasons, "To keep the Sovs out, the Yanks in and the Germans down". All three of those reasons had disappeared more than twenty years ago. NATO is now an anchronism that does more harm than good.FalseFlag said:
Perhaps we could abide by the agreement struck by which the Soviet Union voluntarily withdrew from Eastern Europe and reverse NATO expansion. Abolishing NATO would also make sense as the Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-u-s-ambassador-to-the-soviet-union-the-u-s-and-nato-are-provoking-the-ukrainian-crisis/5399602
That is not to say that there are not benefits to be found under mutual defence agreements but such agreements need to be mutual, realistic and related to defence.
True, the Germans no longer need to be kept down. The problem, now, is more ensuring they keep up.0 -
0
-
With apologies to Nikita Krushchev:Sean_F said:
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
"Kaliningrad is the testicles of Russia. Every time I want to make the Russians scream, I squeeze on Kaliningrad!" 0 -
I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
If NATO were to fall apart, due to the apathy of its members, I think it's far more likely that this country would experience a major war, in my lifetime, than if it hangs together.Casino_Royale said:
Disagree. Russia now needs to be 'kept out', and the Yanks are needed more than ever - Europe is essentially defenceless.HurstLlama said:
Correct. NATO was created for three reasons, "To keep the Sovs out, the Yanks in and the Germans down". All three of those reasons had disappeared more than twenty years ago. NATO is now an anchronism that does more harm than good.FalseFlag said:
Perhaps we could abide by the agreement struck by which the Soviet Union voluntarily withdrew from Eastern Europe and reverse NATO expansion. Abolishing NATO would also make sense as the Warsaw Pact no longer exists.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/former-u-s-ambassador-to-the-soviet-union-the-u-s-and-nato-are-provoking-the-ukrainian-crisis/5399602
That is not to say that there are not benefits to be found under mutual defence agreements but such agreements need to be mutual, realistic and related to defence.
True, the Germans no longer need to be kept down. The problem, now, is more ensuring they keep up.
0 -
Speaking of fashion victims... This is rather fun - the British Library have opened up their local newspaper archives and there's some cracking stuff in there from the last 250yrs
I loved this one
Fashion victim: The Illustrated Police News of June 25, 1870, told of the “melancholy instance” of Dorothea, the eldest daughter of the esteemed Vincent Posthelwaite, Esq. The young woman, who had adopted the fashion for tight corsets, died while dancing with a beau at a ball. Doctors found her heart “had been impeded” by the tight lacing.Knees nobbled: The Illustrated Police News of Oct 31, 1861, reported “extraordinary scenes” outside Victoria Station, where a bus of schoolboy footballers was visiting. The boys, who had been dressed in shorts and overcoats, inadvertently “exposed their knees” to members of the public, leading one “severe-looking lady” to exclaim in horror over the “gross and indecent exhibition”.
telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11122560/Corsets-lions-and-fake-ears-27-strange-stories-from-the-local-press.html0 -
Luxury goods are hard to define in a society that is so different from the 1960s.
Televisions, or TVs that cost more than £xxx.xx?
Cigarettes?
Bottle of whisky over xx.xx
Shoes over £200.00, or buy 2 pairs for £210.00 (the second a pair of flip flops priced at £20.00 to reduce the main pair to below £200.00)
Cars or the extras they add to them?
Concert tickets over £100.00?
The Ivy but not McDonalds?
It wouldn't always be easy for the retailer or the shopper to know what was going on.
Is the owner of the house liable to the mansion tax or the resident? If it is a 3 million house in joint names then each owner has a taxable asset of 1.5 million, less any liability for borrowings. We have individual taxation not joint taxation.
0 -
Plato said:
I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
0 -
Strictly speaking, it's an uncomfortable legacy from the last few months of WWII: a part of Germany that was (forcibly) ethnically cleansed in the late 1940s. But, then again, so was much of western Poland.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Kaliningrad is the testicles of Russia. Every time I want to make the Russians scream, I squeeze on Kaliningrad!"Sean_F said:
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
The bit I don't like is the fact it was colonised by Soviet settlers, to make it part of mother Russia. It's a sleeping dog that all nations have agreed should stay lying down. But I'd personally prefer it if it had been incorporated into Poland in 1945.0 -
Harsh but fair. How much, dare I ask, for a dolphin or a My Little Pony?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And badly drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
UKIP have added some 'about Doncaster' facts to their website.
http://www.ukip.org/doncaster
Perhaps a Doncaster quiz will be Mr Miliband's next media SNAFU?
(I came across a Labour list piece the other day claiming that Miliband-major was a less than diligent constituency MP.)
http://labourlist.org/2013/05/we-need-to-talk-about-south-shields/0 -
"Last week, I was chatting to 2 girls in the park, Araminta and Tiggy, who were telling me that under Tory austerity, they've only been able to buy 3 pairs of Jimmy Choos this year..."Cyclefree said:
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
0 -
Supporter of Scottish independence stricken with mystery malady:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-29376849
On a serious note, Kim Jong-Un's medical woe could well be due to death or torture. One wonders if the Kim dynasty will end. Of course, it could be an actual health issue, but given the way the regime seems to be it wouldn't surprise if a senior general and his chums had overthrown him.0 -
A week in the presence of malcomG.Sean_F said:Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.0 -
Provided it wasn't on show, I'd zero rate it!Sean_F said:Plato said:
I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
HahaTheWatcher said:
"Last week, I was chatting to 2 girls in the park, Araminta and Tiggy, who were telling me that under Tory austerity, they've only been able to buy 3 pairs of Jimmy Choos this year..."Cyclefree said:
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
Did you watch This Week last night?
Rawnsleys bit on Eds speech was brilliant, absolutely hammered him. Worth a look on the iplayer0 -
Dolphins, hmmm. My Little Pony requires penal servitude.Anorak said:
Harsh but fair. How much, dare I ask, for a dolphin or a My Little Pony?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And badly drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
Socrates said:
South Ossetia was an internationally recognised part of Georgia. How can you invade your own country?FalseFlag said:
http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/did-us-okay-2008-south-ossetian-war.htmlFalseFlag said:
Georgia invaded South Ossetia.Socrates said:
I remember when I warned that we needed to draw a clear line in the sand after Russia invaded Georgia a few years back. Everyone said I was being melodramatic...Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:The Baltic countries are registering a dramatic increase in Russian military provocations, rattling nerves in a region which fears it could be the next frontier after Ukraine in Moscow’s quest at asserting its regional power.
Nato fighters policing Baltic airspace were scrambled 68 times along Lithuania’s borders this year, by far the highest count in more than 10 years. Latvia registered 150 “close incidents”, cases where Russian aircraft were found approaching and observed for risky behaviour. Estonia said its sovereign airspace had been violated by Russian aircraft five times this year, nearing the total count of seven over the previous eight years.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d016276-43c3-11e4-baa7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EQmVx2yi
Salami slices.
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64521
The sensible conclusion would have been to realise the Russians had set out a clear marker not to interfere in their sphere of influence and that we should not give extremists reason to think they can provoke Russia and that we would then back them up.
Also Robert Gates makes clear Georgia started the war. Of course you, as ever, know better.
So was Kosovo of Serbia but no one cared then. Tony and friends then invented some cover story but the bottom line was an independent country was invaded and then a part of it carved out as an independent state.
Goose and gander and all that.0 -
It's not like Russia uses ethnic Russians in neighbouring countries as an excuse to invade and annex territory or anything.Itajai said:So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.0 -
If we're going to get endless threads about Latvian Russophobes, I may ask for another sabbatical.0
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For such crimes against fashion and society, capital punishment should not be ruled out...!Anorak said:
Harsh but fair. How much, dare I ask, for a dolphin or a My Little Pony?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And badly drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
No tax. Just bring back the stocks so folks can pelt the offending ink with rotting vegetables.....Sean_F said:Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
0 -
HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
Well, they didn´t sell us bullets.0 -
The Serbs were committing genocide in Kosovo, and thus the Responsibility to Protect issue came in. Nothing similar happened in South Ossetia.Itajai said:Socrates said:
South Ossetia was an internationally recognised part of Georgia. How can you invade your own country?FalseFlag said:
http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/did-us-okay-2008-south-ossetian-war.htmlFalseFlag said:
Georgia invaded South Ossetia.Socrates said:
I remember when I warned that we needed to draw a clear line in the sand after Russia invaded Georgia a few years back. Everyone said I was being melodramatic...Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:The Baltic countries are registering a dramatic increase in Russian military provocations, rattling nerves in a region which fears it could be the next frontier after Ukraine in Moscow’s quest at asserting its regional power.
Nato fighters policing Baltic airspace were scrambled 68 times along Lithuania’s borders this year, by far the highest count in more than 10 years. Latvia registered 150 “close incidents”, cases where Russian aircraft were found approaching and observed for risky behaviour. Estonia said its sovereign airspace had been violated by Russian aircraft five times this year, nearing the total count of seven over the previous eight years.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d016276-43c3-11e4-baa7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EQmVx2yi
Salami slices.
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64521
The sensible conclusion would have been to realise the Russians had set out a clear marker not to interfere in their sphere of influence and that we should not give extremists reason to think they can provoke Russia and that we would then back them up.
Also Robert Gates makes clear Georgia started the war. Of course you, as ever, know better.
So was Kosovo of Serbia but no one cared then. Tony and friends then invented some cover story but the bottom line was an independent country was invaded and then a part of it carved out as an independent state.
Goose and gander and all that.0 -
Sean_F said:
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
What do you think is the solution?Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
I don't think NATO would go to war to defend an incursion of one of the Baltic States. For starters, Russia would camouflage it enough to generate a 'debate' in the West about what to do.
I wonder if we should now put the withdrawal of our army from Germany on hold. IMHO if there is a change in the manifesto for the next Tory government, it should include freezing foreign aid at current levels (abandoning the 0.7% GDP target) - the argument would be that we were already achieving huge things with our aid budget and growing faster than other G7 countries etc..
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
Oh, please!0 -
If we'd have been smart about things, we could have given it to the Jews as their national homeland.Casino_Royale said:
Strictly speaking, it's an uncomfortable legacy from the last few months of WWII: a part of Germany that was (forcibly) ethnically cleansed in the late 1940s. But, then again, so was much of western Poland.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Kaliningrad is the testicles of Russia. Every time I want to make the Russians scream, I squeeze on Kaliningrad!"Sean_F said:
Belgium is completely useless. It hardly exists as a country, in any case. Poland fortunately, is not a paper tiger. One credible military option, in the event of a Russian incursion into the Baltic States would be to occupy Kaliningrad.HurstLlama said:
Mr. F., With regard to the credibility of NATO the nation I look to is Belgium. Would Belgium commit ground troops to the defence of the Baltic states? If the answer is, No, then NATO is already a paper tiger.Sean_F said:
Certainly, the Baltic States have to be the line in the sand, otherwise, we might just as well wind NATO up.Socrates said:
If we allow democratic countries that are both in NATO and in the EU to be invaded without reprisal than the entire Western alliance will collapse in finger-pointing. It would give an utter go ahead to every regional power in the world to do what the hell they wanted. Russia would move on from the Baltic states to start looking at controlling places like Bulgaria and Romania, then Poland, and then keep on going. The GDP of the NATO alliance is more than ten times that of Russia, and Moscow knows this. They just think they have stronger will than we do.Casino_Royale said:
The 2015 strategic defence review then needs to increase spending, I'm afraid. Reactivate 3-4 RAF fighter squadrons, a couple of extra batallions of light infantry, a replacement for Nimrod, and maybe add a couple of extra frigates to the type 26 naval orders.Socrates said:
-Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:
WRT crime rates, it seems to be the case that *violent* crime peaked c.2004. I imagine that violent crime generates more concern than crime generally.
The bit I don't like is the fact it was colonised by Soviet settlers, to make it part of mother Russia. It's a sleeping dog that all nations have agreed should stay lying down. But I'd personally prefer it if it had been incorporated into Poland in 1945.0 -
Would you exempt cat tattoos?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that. 0 -
Did you support Israel's unilateral annexation of the Golan (legally part of Syria) in 1981?Socrates said:
It's not like Russia uses ethnic Russians in neighbouring countries as an excuse to invade and annex territory or anything.Itajai said:So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.0 -
I'd rather be a Russian in Latvia than in Russia. Given the treatment that was meted out to the Baltic peoples by Stalin, I'd say they've been extremely generous towards the Russian populations that were settled there.Itajai said:So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.
0 -
How's the blogpost on Scottish seats going?antifrank said:If we're going to get endless threads about Latvian Russophobes, I may ask for another sabbatical.
0 -
Georgia tried to retake South Ossetia by force in 1991-2, after the region's declaration of independence in 1990, but they lost.Socrates said:
The Serbs were committing genocide in Kosovo, and thus the Responsibility to Protect issue came in. Nothing similar happened in South Ossetia.Itajai said:Socrates said:
South Ossetia was an internationally recognised part of Georgia. How can you invade your own country?FalseFlag said:
http://isteve.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/did-us-okay-2008-south-ossetian-war.htmlFalseFlag said:
Georgia invaded South Ossetia.Socrates said:
I remember when I warned that we needed to draw a clear line in the sand after Russia invaded Georgia a few years back. Everyone said I was being melodramatic...Casino_Royale said:
This worries me.Socrates said:The Baltic countries are registering a dramatic increase in Russian military provocations, rattling nerves in a region which fears it could be the next frontier after Ukraine in Moscow’s quest at asserting its regional power.
Nato fighters policing Baltic airspace were scrambled 68 times along Lithuania’s borders this year, by far the highest count in more than 10 years. Latvia registered 150 “close incidents”, cases where Russian aircraft were found approaching and observed for risky behaviour. Estonia said its sovereign airspace had been violated by Russian aircraft five times this year, nearing the total count of seven over the previous eight years.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9d016276-43c3-11e4-baa7-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3EQmVx2yi
Salami slices.
http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64521
The sensible conclusion would have been to realise the Russians had set out a clear marker not to interfere in their sphere of influence and that we should not give extremists reason to think they can provoke Russia and that we would then back them up.
Also Robert Gates makes clear Georgia started the war. Of course you, as ever, know better.
So was Kosovo of Serbia but no one cared then. Tony and friends then invented some cover story but the bottom line was an independent country was invaded and then a part of it carved out as an independent state.
Goose and gander and all that.0 -
So if it´s ok to discriminate against some in the Baltics, why not here.Sean_F said:
I'd rather be a Russian in Latvia than in Russia. Given the treatment that was meted out to the Baltic peoples by Stalin, I'd say they've been extremely generous towards the Russian populations that were settled there.Itajai said:So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.0 -
It will be up on Monday or Tuesday, when I get back. The thinking has been done, but now I need to write it, update tables and where relevant place bets before publication.Richard_Nabavi said:
How's the blogpost on Scottish seats going?antifrank said:If we're going to get endless threads about Latvian Russophobes, I may ask for another sabbatical.
0 -
I don't consider that there is major discrimination. There will always be some degree of ill-feeling between different ethnic groups who have a history of conflict.Itajai said:
So if it´s ok to discriminate against some in the Baltics, why not here.Sean_F said:
I'd rather be a Russian in Latvia than in Russia. Given the treatment that was meted out to the Baltic peoples by Stalin, I'd say they've been extremely generous towards the Russian populations that were settled there.Itajai said:So? Happens all the time, the Baltic states have been key lobbyists for sanctions.
Yes, the Baltics, two of whom openly discriminate on up to 30%+ of their population. If Slavs were non-white or or other religions just imagine the furore. As it is, no one cares.
0 -
I don't consider that there is major discrimination. There will always be some degree of ill-feeling between different ethnic groups who have a history of conflict.
What is not major discrimination?
Being stateless in your own country? Let alone not being allowed to vote in your own country?0 -
Waste of money on both counts. Surely a tattoo has to be seen to be appreciated, and the rotting vegetables can be ploughed in a fertiliser!MarqueeMark said:
No tax. Just bring back the stocks so folks can pelt the offending ink with rotting vegetables.....Sean_F said:Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.0 -
Excellent. I think there's money to be made on Scotland.antifrank said:It will be up on Monday or Tuesday, when I get back. The thinking has been done, but now I need to write it, update tables and where relevant place bets before publication.
0 -
Don't try to act innocent. Who pays the Council Tax now ? Joint owners, tenants whatever. It will defined in their individual contracts. The MT is on the house, not on the people. Just like CT is.philiph said:Luxury goods are hard to define in a society that is so different from the 1960s.
Televisions, or TVs that cost more than £xxx.xx?
Cigarettes?
Bottle of whisky over xx.xx
Shoes over £200.00, or buy 2 pairs for £210.00 (the second a pair of flip flops priced at £20.00 to reduce the main pair to below £200.00)
Cars or the extras they add to them?
Concert tickets over £100.00?
The Ivy but not McDonalds?
It wouldn't always be easy for the retailer or the shopper to know what was going on.
Is the owner of the house liable to the mansion tax or the resident? If it is a 3 million house in joint names then each owner has a taxable asset of 1.5 million, less any liability for borrowings. We have individual taxation not joint taxation.0 -
All Russian inhabitants of Latvia have permanent residency in the country, even those who live in property that the Soviets confiscated from Latvian owners.Itajai said:
I don't consider that there is major discrimination. There will always be some degree of ill-feeling between different ethnic groups who have a history of conflict.
What is not major discrimination?
Being stateless in your own country? Let alone not being allowed to vote in your own country?
All Russian inhabitants of Latvia can apply for Latvian citizenship (60% of them hold Latvian citizenship), However, to obtain Latvian citizenship, they have to pass language and history tests, similar to those that plenty of countries require prospective citizens to pass.
Given that tens of thousands of ethnic Latvians were butchered and deported by the Soviets, I'd say they've been a model of generosity and tolerance post-independence.
0 -
0
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Latvians were disproportionately involved supporting the Bolsheviks, Latvian riflemen and a number of the leaders. The biggest victims of the Bolsheviks were the Russians.Sean_F said:
All Russian inhabitants of Latvia have permanent residency in the country, even those who live in property that the Soviets confiscated from Latvian owners.Itajai said:
I don't consider that there is major discrimination. There will always be some degree of ill-feeling between different ethnic groups who have a history of conflict.
What is not major discrimination?
Being stateless in your own country? Let alone not being allowed to vote in your own country?
All Russian inhabitants of Latvia can apply for Latvian citizenship (60% of them hold Latvian citizenship), However, to obtain Latvian citizenship, they have to pass language and history tests, similar to those that plenty of countries require prospective citizens to pass.
Given that tens of thousands of ethnic Latvians were butchered and deported by the Soviets, I'd say they've been a model of generosity and tolerance post-independence.
0 -
524 vs 43 for the Iraq action.0
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@patrickwintour: Air strikes sanctioned 524 v 430
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Yes, council tax is a local tax to pay for local council services.surbiton said:
Don't try to act innocent. Who pays the Council Tax now ? Joint owners, tenants whatever. It will defined in their individual contracts. The MT is on the house, not on the people. Just like CT is.philiph said:Luxury goods are hard to define in a society that is so different from the 1960s.
Televisions, or TVs that cost more than £xxx.xx?
Cigarettes?
Bottle of whisky over xx.xx
Shoes over £200.00, or buy 2 pairs for £210.00 (the second a pair of flip flops priced at £20.00 to reduce the main pair to below £200.00)
Cars or the extras they add to them?
Concert tickets over £100.00?
The Ivy but not McDonalds?
It wouldn't always be easy for the retailer or the shopper to know what was going on.
Is the owner of the house liable to the mansion tax or the resident? If it is a 3 million house in joint names then each owner has a taxable asset of 1.5 million, less any liability for borrowings. We have individual taxation not joint taxation.
Mansion tax AFAIK is not a local tax to pay for local services. I think the status of it is, and would be defined in a different way. It is a tax on the value of the asset which by definition is a tax on the owner of that asset. They may well legislate to make all owners jointly and severally liable, but that will open up a myriad of interesting possibilities.0 -
Cameron really is the heir to Blair! 0
-
@PickardJE: Labour MP Rushanara Ali has resigned from the party's front bench in order to vote against military action in Iraq.0
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Government wins Iraq vote by 524 to 43 - a majority of 481.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2014/sep/26/mps-debate-and-vote-on-air-strikes-against-islamic-state-politics-live-blog?CMP=twt_gu0 -
Oh, it was intended that the ink would be fully on display. My proposal would require a strong constitution, as well as a good aim.....OldKingCole said:
Waste of money on both counts. Surely a tattoo has to be seen to be appreciated, and the rotting vegetables can be ploughed in a fertiliser!MarqueeMark said:
No tax. Just bring back the stocks so folks can pelt the offending ink with rotting vegetables.....Sean_F said:Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
What would you tax a woman for tattooing her arse?Plato said:I'd tax shell-suits if anyone still wore them.
And bad drawn tattoos. And charge middle-aged women double for any with a cartoon character on their upper arm. And treble for little devils or Tigger.Cyclefree said:
Tut tut: women's shoes (and the handbags, you forgot them) and cars are key political issues.state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo
I expect EdM will be running on the Heath tomorrow asking people what they think of shoes.
PS I think we should have a tax on trainers as they are the most hideous shoes known to man or woman, come to that.
0 -
I doubt Alan Henning will be alive this time tomorrowScott_P said:@patrickwintour: Air strikes sanctioned 524 v 43
0 -
OT.
Interesting new twist in the question of EU benefit tourism.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/26/uk-owes-our-citizens-unpaid-welfare-say-slovakia-and-czech-republic0 -
The Labourite Warsi. Wonder if she was promoted on merit too?Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Labour MP Rushanara Ali has resigned from the party's front bench in order to vote against military action in Iraq.
0 -
Peter Hitchens and Stephen Fry have ding dongs that put thelastbobawhatsisname and myself to shame...
I am happy to be Hitchens
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/09/stephen-fry-unintentionally-backs-my-argument-on-drug-law-enforcement-.html0 -
"The two topics Ed forgot in his speech, remain the public’s top two issues"
No they don't. The deficit =/= the economy.0 -
Mr. Isam, that does assume he's alive right now.
If we refuse to attack anyone with a British captive we encourage every gang of murderous lunatics to claim at least one as an insurance policy.0 -
By the way in the midst of all the discussions about hand bag taxes (a very silly idea) I think people missed what is an even more silly idea.
Apparently they intend ending VAT rebates for foreign visitors. Given that these are generally via international reciprocal agreements to prevent double taxation it strikes me all this will do is result in more people paying more tax overall.
Really not sure they have thought this through.0 -
Currently involved in a community broadband project, volunteers digging cables and installing fibre broadband to farms, barns and other rural homes and businesses... The cost of connection per home is a small fraction of what BT would charge and no home is left out... even a farm 10km from the nearest other connection that now has 1GBs broadband despite neither mains water nor electricity... Big Society in action...Plato said:Not myself, but you're right about it being a great idea.
I'm helping out at the Sally Army in a couple of weeks, and have done client survey work for the local housing team. The Big Society wasn't pitched correctly all that time ago, but it's alive and kicking.
I've met some really interesting people along the way so I wouldn't claim it was at all altruistic!state_go_away said:Given I have just looked at the latest threads and there seems to be some argument about women's shoes and cars that I cannot understand ,I thought I might post something trivial as well-
Anyone doing a parkrun tomorrow ? Good example of the Big Society imo0 -
"Peacenik" I may be, but I can't help but feel this "intervention" is going to end in tears.
If your mate or a relative was killed by Western drones, would you be philosophical about it and think that they died for the greater good? Or would you be furious, and a lot more sympathetic to evil jihadists' argument that the West are out to get "people like you" and that "revenge" had to be got on them?0 -
I don't think she could have held her seat if she had voted for it. Bear in mind that Oona King lost Bethnal green & Bow to Galloway over her support for Iraq.Itajai said:
The Labourite Warsi. Wonder if she was promoted on merit too?Scott_P said:@PickardJE: Labour MP Rushanara Ali has resigned from the party's front bench in order to vote against military action in Iraq.
0 -
I thought Ukip weren't part of The Establishment or the Political Class they keep banging on about but it seems they are.Nigel says is policy.So if Nigel says Douglas Carswell will not be his successor,that's policy in the world of this new kind of politics that's led by bankers and is very totalitarian and authoritarian.More perhaps a kind of monarchy with Nigel as king.Bow to the great King Nigel,peasants.Trust me,I'm a banker.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/26/nigel-farage-ukip-leadership_n_5888710.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics&ir=UK+Politics0
