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Starmer: The heir to Miliband? – politicalbetting.com

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    No they don't. There is no requirement to swear in by Almighty God at all and many don't.
    The standard MPs oath is 'I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.'

    The fact a few non religious MPs may take a slightly different one does not change the fact that is the standard oath
    Oh and just to correct the 'just a few non religious MPs'. Neither Keir Starmer nor Penny Mourdant took the religious oath this time and in 2019 150 MPs also failed to take the religious oath so it is not just 'a few', it is fairly mainstream.
    So over 75% of MPs do take the religious oath then
    In other words, the vast majority do, but a significant minority do not.

    How about that?
    For crying out loud @hyufd you said 'ALL'.

    It is not 'ALL' is it.

    Will you ever admit you get things wrongs?

    And you said 'ALL' to prove a point which is therefore also wrong.

    Do you not know what 'ALL' means?
    It remains the standard oath for the House to swear allegiance to Almighty God, the fact a few MPs might not do the standard oath exactly as set out does not change that
    It is utterly pointless and hypocritical if an MP swears an allegiance to God if they do not believe in God

    It should be a matter for an individual, and in a tolerant society that should be allowed for and respected
    In fairness to @hyufd I don't think he is insisting they do.
  • Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493

    There's one area where Starmer and Miliband are *very* different: Russia. Miliband's hideous refusal to react to Syrian use of chemical weapons in 2013 - a refusal done for narrow political reasons, and which caused the US to pull out of of action as well. This happened despite agreeing a deal with Cameron.

    That happened in 2013, and I'd argue it sent Russia a very strong message that the west was too divided to act, even against the use of chemical weapons. That would have been at the very least in the back of Putin's mind when he ordered the Crimean takeover, his Donbass adventures and Salisbury; let alone this year's folly.

    He thought the west was weak and divided; we gave indications that we were weak and divided. He's learnt that whilst we may be weak and divided, we're not weak and divided enough.

    I see no indication that Starmer would be weaker against Russia than Truss (though that may or may not have been the case if he had been in charge in February. That's a key difference with Miliband.

    Many anti-war loons go on about 'eastwards expansion of NATO' or 'Ukrainian Nazis'. It's a shame they cannot look deep into their own souls and look at their own responsibility.

    An inverted pyramid of piffle.

    David Cameron could not convince even his own party to back his Syrian adventurism. Cameron also tried and failed to make a deal with Putin on Syria. The United States did not need British backing had it decided to use force against Syria; America offered to release Britain from any supposed obligation to join its actions against Afghanistan and Iraq; similarly, America did not need Ed Miliband to convince them not to intervene against Syria.

    Away from the Middle East, there were many on the right who condemned either Nato or EU expansion up to Russia's borders, but, like America, perhaps Russia too made its own decisions.

    Let us hope the Ukraine war is no longer a factor by the time the next election rolls round.
    Oh come off it! Your crass denialism is exactly why the left - even the sane left such as yourself - will just allow this sort of sh*t to happen again when they get power.

    Labour and the left - along with others - turned a blind eye to the use of WMD against civilians. The world is not paying the consequences of that.
    You are shifting ground slightly. The situation in Syria was unclear at the time, with almost no-one on the side of the angels. Were we to fight alongside ISIS or Al Qaeda? Earlier Western intervention in Iraq and then in Libya had not ended well. The contention that Miliband caused no action to be taken is preposterous. David Cameron had failed to convince Russia, America or even his own backbenchers that this time it would be different.

    Nor is there any reason to link Syria with Russia invading Ukraine.
    The situation on the ground really was not unclear - that is rewriting history because our lack of support changed the situation on the ground. and the good people/groups pretty much got wiped out. It was also very clear that the Assad regime was using chemical weapons. You think it is unclear because it benefits you to do do so, because you know your side f***ed up.

    We betrayed good people and allowed evil to flourish. We then allowed evil in the form of Putin to get involved, and gave evil the impression we'd do nothing when evil occurred in the future.

    As for your last line. What message do you think Putin got from Miliband stopping the west from intervening against Assad, when Assad used chemical weapons? Do you think Putin thought: "Oh, the west is strong. I'd better not invade Crimea next year?"
    Speaking of allowing evil to flourish, what's your current position on Turkey's occupation of Cyprus and its invasion of parts of Syria to get at the Kurds? I believe that last time you were asked; 'it's very complicated' was your masterful response.
    Well, the history of Cyprus is very complicated (*), and especially if you look at it in relation to self-determination. Or is it simple in your eyes?

    As far as I'm aware, I've not mentioned 'Turkey's invasion of parts of Syria to get at the Kurds' recently, so you've naughtily added that on.

    But before you try to make me out to be some form of Turkish shill, you might want to consider my support of a Kurdish state, opined below and on many previous occasions in the past (a position that is not exactly in line with Erdogan's). My reaction to Turley's invasion of Syria is what it always has been: they should gtfo.

    Now, why won't you answer the question I always ask you, and which you Brave Sir Robin away from? Do you believe the Dutch report into MH17,or are you still swallowing Russia's lines, which you spewed over here at the time?

    (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cyprus
    (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Cyprus
    Thought so. So you're quite happy to don your grand inquisitor outfit and go after anyone who you don't feel has been sufficiently anti-Russian over the past few years; never mind the fact that Syria now is a livable state, and our chosen side wanted to turn it into an Islamist basket-case, but you actually don't even have the balls to condemn the psychopath currently ruling Turkey, who has, oh let's see, invaded and occupied other countries, clamped down on dissent and personal freedoms, and openly dreams of rebuilding the Ottoman Empire. There are words for that - hypocrite is one of the politer ones.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    Well, in fairness, he would know...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?


    Life moves fast. The mournfest is over, and using the late Queen a bit distasteful.

    On the other hand the graph in the header shows what a patriotic but dull and uncharismatic London lawyer can do. 1945 was far and away the outstanding GE in that graph.

    By the time of the coronation, folk are going to be sick to the back teeth of it. They’d be wise to get it over with quickly. Most European monarchies abolished coronation ceremonies long ago. With very good reason. Mourning the loss of a venerable old lady is one thing, sticking people’s noses in it with ostentatious waste of taxpayers’ cash is quite another.
    What you mean is, that by the time of the coronation a small but vocal minority of republicans and Scottish nationalists will be sick to the back teeth of ‘it’.
    tis a non point because there isn't ongoing Royal stuff going on between now and then. It's like saying on Boxing Day that people are going to be truly fed up by Christmas Eve next year. And KC has already said it's gonna be slimmed down.

    It'll still be a Meghan n Hazza mocking opportunity.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,868
    Dura_Ace said:

    Ukraine are using ATACMS. No coincidence that this video emerges so soon after Russia's mobilisation starts. This gives Ukraine even greater range to hit Russian logistics.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1573843064900272129

    I see we are at the anything any scrandy says on Twitter must be true stage of the conflict again.

    That's regular lo-fat HIMARS. An ATACMS round is much girthier.
    That’s a shame, although it did look larger than the regular rounds. It’s been said that the Americans have been a little hesitant over the longer-range version, was hoping they had managed to resolve their concerns.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    No they don't. There is no requirement to swear in by Almighty God at all and many don't.
    The standard MPs oath is 'I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.'

    The fact a few non religious MPs may take a slightly different one does not change the fact that is the standard oath
    Oh and just to correct the 'just a few non religious MPs'. Neither Keir Starmer nor Penny Mourdant took the religious oath this time and in 2019 150 MPs also failed to take the religious oath so it is not just 'a few', it is fairly mainstream.
    So over 75% of MPs do take the religious oath then
    In other words, the vast majority do, but a significant minority do not.

    How about that?
    For crying out loud @hyufd you said 'ALL'.

    It is not 'ALL' is it.

    Will you ever admit you get things wrongs?

    And you said 'ALL' to prove a point which is therefore also wrong.

    Do you not know what 'ALL' means?
    It remains the standard oath for the House to swear allegiance to Almighty God, the fact a few MPs might not do the standard oath exactly as set out does not change that
    It's not a few. It's up to 25%.
    25% is a few, even less than the percentage of the UK voters that voted for Corbyn and Hague
    But more than for the SCons last time out.
    And SLab.
    And the SLDs.
    25% voted for the SCons in 2019 actually in Scotland and 29% voted SCon in 2017
  • TresTres Posts: 1,347
    edited September 25

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    People in the industry with that mindset would already be working in the Isle of Man or Dubai or wherever.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,559
    edited September 25
    Great YG for Truss and Kwasi, well deserved.

    Even SKS cant screw this up
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.

    Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
    To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are the main alternative to the SNP, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to unite Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
    Just how many Lib Dem and Tory tactical votes do you think are available for Labour in places like Glasgow East and Coatbridge & Bellshill?

    Arithmetic is the essential bedrock of electoral success. You just got an F.
    16% in Coatbridge voted Tory and LD in 2019, the SNP majority was just 11%.

    18% voted Tory and LD in Glasgow East in 2019 and the SNP majority there was just 14%.

    In a straight SNP v Starmer Labour contest I suspect far more Tory and LD voters would be ready to vote Labour than they were when it was led by Corbyn
  • IshmaelZ said:

    As an aside, we just went to a local Junior Park Run. There was a little celebration on, and the organisers had a cake with some candles.

    They asked if anyone had any matches or a lighter to light the candle. Of the 40 or 50 adults there, none had.

    Even considering this was a group who took their kids to a run, how times change.

    Did you not watch Eluid????
    Eluid?
    Eliud Kipchoge? Greatest marathon runner of all time?
    Ah sorry, no. The little 'un wanted to do the Park Run (dressed as Pheidippides (*), of all things, as it was a fancy dress day), and Mrs J's doing a 10K run.

    I get depressed watching marathons on the TV. Everyone's so much faster than me; I'm a tortoise at running. I quite like watching them in person though, as you get a better impression of the pain everyone's in. ;)

    (*) The runner of the original marathon.
    You could record them and play back at 1/2 speed. Which would still have Kipchoge equalling my PB.
    My next half target is 1:50, amazing that Kipchoge has almost run my even twice in that time
    I think my best half time is 2hr15 - as I say, I'm slow. But I only started running when I was about 43 or 44.
    My friend that is rapid, that's about my PB right now!!! We're faster than about 99% of runners, that is how I look at it
    Thanks, that makes me feel better. ;)

    I'd like to do a marathon in 4hrs 30m. I've only ever done one (on Jan 1st) and got 4hr49m. I was on for 4hr30m but hit a wall about 21 miles in running up Madingley Hill.

    I'm a bit concerned my half pace is about the same as my full pace; I'd expect to be a little faster at the half. Also, I think people always run faster in an official event - which I don't do.

    My neighbour runs 10k in 40 minutes. Then again, he's 15 years younger than me...
    I have a friend who ran the 10k in just over 50 minutes pre-lockdown.
    But good enough to win the over-75 section in the Glasgow 10K by a long way.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    No they don't. There is no requirement to swear in by Almighty God at all and many don't.
    The standard MPs oath is 'I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.'

    The fact a few non religious MPs may take a slightly different one does not change the fact that is the standard oath
    Oh and just to correct the 'just a few non religious MPs'. Neither Keir Starmer nor Penny Mourdant took the religious oath this time and in 2019 150 MPs also failed to take the religious oath so it is not just 'a few', it is fairly mainstream.
    So over 75% of MPs do take the religious oath then
    In other words, the vast majority do, but a significant minority do not.

    How about that?
    For crying out loud @hyufd you said 'ALL'.

    It is not 'ALL' is it.

    Will you ever admit you get things wrongs?

    And you said 'ALL' to prove a point which is therefore also wrong.

    Do you not know what 'ALL' means?
    It remains the standard oath for the House to swear allegiance to Almighty God, the fact a few MPs might not do the standard oath exactly as set out does not change that
    It's not a few. It's up to 25%.
    25% is a few, even less than the percentage of the UK voters that voted for Corbyn and Hague
    But more than for the SCons last time out.
    And SLab.
    And the SLDs.
    25% voted for the SCons in 2019 actually in Scotland and 29% voted SCon in 2017
    You do know what last time out means?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,974

    There's one area where Starmer and Miliband are *very* different: Russia. Miliband's hideous refusal to react to Syrian use of chemical weapons in 2013 - a refusal done for narrow political reasons, and which caused the US to pull out of of action as well. This happened despite agreeing a deal with Cameron.

    That happened in 2013, and I'd argue it sent Russia a very strong message that the west was too divided to act, even against the use of chemical weapons. That would have been at the very least in the back of Putin's mind when he ordered the Crimean takeover, his Donbass adventures and Salisbury; let alone this year's folly.

    He thought the west was weak and divided; we gave indications that we were weak and divided. He's learnt that whilst we may be weak and divided, we're not weak and divided enough.

    I see no indication that Starmer would be weaker against Russia than Truss (though that may or may not have been the case if he had been in charge in February. That's a key difference with Miliband.

    Many anti-war loons go on about 'eastwards expansion of NATO' or 'Ukrainian Nazis'. It's a shame they cannot look deep into their own souls and look at their own responsibility.

    An inverted pyramid of piffle.

    David Cameron could not convince even his own party to back his Syrian adventurism. Cameron also tried and failed to make a deal with Putin on Syria. The United States did not need British backing had it decided to use force against Syria; America offered to release Britain from any supposed obligation to join its actions against Afghanistan and Iraq; similarly, America did not need Ed Miliband to convince them not to intervene against Syria.

    Away from the Middle East, there were many on the right who condemned either Nato or EU expansion up to Russia's borders, but, like America, perhaps Russia too made its own decisions.

    Let us hope the Ukraine war is no longer a factor by the time the next election rolls round.
    Oh come off it! Your crass denialism is exactly why the left - even the sane left such as yourself - will just allow this sort of sh*t to happen again when they get power.

    Labour and the left - along with others - turned a blind eye to the use of WMD against civilians. The world is not paying the consequences of that.
    You are shifting ground slightly. The situation in Syria was unclear at the time, with almost no-one on the side of the angels. Were we to fight alongside ISIS or Al Qaeda? Earlier Western intervention in Iraq and then in Libya had not ended well. The contention that Miliband caused no action to be taken is preposterous. David Cameron had failed to convince Russia, America or even his own backbenchers that this time it would be different.

    Nor is there any reason to link Syria with Russia invading Ukraine.
    The situation on the ground really was not unclear - that is rewriting history because our lack of support changed the situation on the ground. and the good people/groups pretty much got wiped out. It was also very clear that the Assad regime was using chemical weapons. You think it is unclear because it benefits you to do do so, because you know your side f***ed up.

    We betrayed good people and allowed evil to flourish. We then allowed evil in the form of Putin to get involved, and gave evil the impression we'd do nothing when evil occurred in the future.

    As for your last line. What message do you think Putin got from Miliband stopping the west from intervening against Assad, when Assad used chemical weapons? Do you think Putin thought: "Oh, the west is strong. I'd better not invade Crimea next year?"
    Speaking of allowing evil to flourish, what's your current position on Turkey's occupation of Cyprus and its invasion of parts of Syria to get at the Kurds? I believe that last time you were asked; 'it's very complicated' was your masterful response.
    Well, the history of Cyprus is very complicated (*), and especially if you look at it in relation to self-determination. Or is it simple in your eyes?

    As far as I'm aware, I've not mentioned 'Turkey's invasion of parts of Syria to get at the Kurds' recently, so you've naughtily added that on.

    But before you try to make me out to be some form of Turkish shill, you might want to consider my support of a Kurdish state, opined below and on many previous occasions in the past (a position that is not exactly in line with Erdogan's). My reaction to Turley's invasion of Syria is what it always has been: they should gtfo.

    Now, why won't you answer the question I always ask you, and which you Brave Sir Robin away from? Do you believe the Dutch report into MH17,or are you still swallowing Russia's lines, which you spewed over here at the time?

    (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cyprus
    (*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Cyprus
    Thought so. So you're quite happy to don your grand inquisitor outfit and go after anyone who you don't feel has been sufficiently anti-Russian over the past few years; never mind the fact that Syria now is a livable state, and our chosen side wanted to turn it into an Islamist basket-case, but you actually don't even have the balls to condemn the psychopath currently ruling Turkey, who has, oh let's see, invaded and occupied other countries, clamped down on dissent and personal freedoms, and openly dreams of rebuilding the Ottoman Empire. There are words for that - hypocrite is one of the politer ones.
    You did not even read my reply, did you?

    I'd like you to find times when I have praised Erdogan.

    "Syria now is a livable state"

    Really? The still-displaced millions and the residents of various towns and cities might feel somewhat differently. This is from this month:

    "Families living in front-line areas have borne the brunt of pro-government forces’ ground-to-ground shelling in these areas, the report documented, with “children killed on their way to school, men killed as they tended to their shops, and an entire family killed as they gathered outside their home for afternoon tea.
    Tens of thousands of Syrians remain forcibly disappeared or missing to date. Government forces continue to inflict cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment on the relatives of the missing by deliberately concealing the fate and whereabouts of the missing,” the report outlined."

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/9/14/syria-headed-to-to-larger-scale-fighting-un-warns-in-report
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/19/missile-attack-kills-civilians-in-northern-syria-marketplace
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    Rather a powerful point, then, the usual response to I am going to leave the country threats is Yeah, they never actually do it.

    With Starmer expressly saying he will reinstate 45% moving to Berwick looks a gamble at the moment. Say you earn £1m and live in £2m properties, you save 120k over 2 years but spend 154k in SD.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    It's only an extra 6% on earnings over £150k though, isn't it? Unless you're earning a fair bit more than that, your commuting costs (especially if travel time also equals money) would be more than the tax saving I'd have thought.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873
    edited September 25
    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,836
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    I don't understand how anyone who spends so much time pontificating about politics can be so ignorant of basic facts.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,974

    IshmaelZ said:

    As an aside, we just went to a local Junior Park Run. There was a little celebration on, and the organisers had a cake with some candles.

    They asked if anyone had any matches or a lighter to light the candle. Of the 40 or 50 adults there, none had.

    Even considering this was a group who took their kids to a run, how times change.

    Did you not watch Eluid????
    Eluid?
    Eliud Kipchoge? Greatest marathon runner of all time?
    Ah sorry, no. The little 'un wanted to do the Park Run (dressed as Pheidippides (*), of all things, as it was a fancy dress day), and Mrs J's doing a 10K run.

    I get depressed watching marathons on the TV. Everyone's so much faster than me; I'm a tortoise at running. I quite like watching them in person though, as you get a better impression of the pain everyone's in. ;)

    (*) The runner of the original marathon.
    You could record them and play back at 1/2 speed. Which would still have Kipchoge equalling my PB.
    My next half target is 1:50, amazing that Kipchoge has almost run my even twice in that time
    I think my best half time is 2hr15 - as I say, I'm slow. But I only started running when I was about 43 or 44.
    My friend that is rapid, that's about my PB right now!!! We're faster than about 99% of runners, that is how I look at it
    Thanks, that makes me feel better. ;)

    I'd like to do a marathon in 4hrs 30m. I've only ever done one (on Jan 1st) and got 4hr49m. I was on for 4hr30m but hit a wall about 21 miles in running up Madingley Hill.

    I'm a bit concerned my half pace is about the same as my full pace; I'd expect to be a little faster at the half. Also, I think people always run faster in an official event - which I don't do.

    My neighbour runs 10k in 40 minutes. Then again, he's 15 years younger than me...
    I have a friend who ran the 10k in just over 50 minutes pre-lockdown.
    But good enough to win the over-75 section in the Glasgow 10K by a long way.
    Either last year or 2020, I was running through Oxmoor in Huntingdon. I was feeling good; it was a seagull day. I was running a good pace, no niggling injuries or pain, and I was in a good mood.

    And I was overtaken by a man who must have been ten or twenty years older than me. He gave me a friendly wave as he strode past, and I watched him disappear into the distance ahead.
  • TresTres Posts: 1,347

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    It's only an extra 6% on earnings over £150k though, isn't it? Unless you're earning a fair bit more than that, your commuting costs (especially if travel time also equals money) would be more than the tax saving I'd have thought.
    Plus your kids would be facing those lovely tuition fees if they decide to go to university,
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,721

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    It’s inevitable there will be some cross-border commuting happening if there’s a tax rate arbitrage of 2% or more. Whether that matters, and how widespread it is, is another matter.

    It helps that there are no large English cities within an easy commute of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Getting the tax saving will require a real relocation. The US experience shows it’s rife where state boundaries run through suburban areas.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642
    Sandpit said:

    Right, holiday beckons. A week with books and coctails, instead of being online 18 hours a day.

    Let’s hope there’s not WWIII to come back to next weekend! Laters ✈️

    Enjoy!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873
    Sandpit said:

    Right, holiday beckons. A week with books and coctails, instead of being online 18 hours a day.

    Let’s hope there’s not WWIII to come back to next weekend! Laters ✈️

    Going somewhere with a lot of sun and sand?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    As an aside, we just went to a local Junior Park Run. There was a little celebration on, and the organisers had a cake with some candles.

    They asked if anyone had any matches or a lighter to light the candle. Of the 40 or 50 adults there, none had.

    Even considering this was a group who took their kids to a run, how times change.

    Did you not watch Eluid????
    Eluid?
    Eliud Kipchoge? Greatest marathon runner of all time?
    Ah sorry, no. The little 'un wanted to do the Park Run (dressed as Pheidippides (*), of all things, as it was a fancy dress day), and Mrs J's doing a 10K run.

    I get depressed watching marathons on the TV. Everyone's so much faster than me; I'm a tortoise at running. I quite like watching them in person though, as you get a better impression of the pain everyone's in. ;)

    (*) The runner of the original marathon.
    You could record them and play back at 1/2 speed. Which would still have Kipchoge equalling my PB.
    My next half target is 1:50, amazing that Kipchoge has almost run my even twice in that time
    I think my best half time is 2hr15 - as I say, I'm slow. But I only started running when I was about 43 or 44.
    My friend that is rapid, that's about my PB right now!!! We're faster than about 99% of runners, that is how I look at it
    Thanks, that makes me feel better. ;)

    I'd like to do a marathon in 4hrs 30m. I've only ever done one (on Jan 1st) and got 4hr49m. I was on for 4hr30m but hit a wall about 21 miles in running up Madingley Hill.

    I'm a bit concerned my half pace is about the same as my full pace; I'd expect to be a little faster at the half. Also, I think people always run faster in an official event - which I don't do.

    My neighbour runs 10k in 40 minutes. Then again, he's 15 years younger than me...
    I have a friend who ran the 10k in just over 50 minutes pre-lockdown.
    But good enough to win the over-75 section in the Glasgow 10K by a long way.
    Either last year or 2020, I was running through Oxmoor in Huntingdon. I was feeling good; it was a seagull day. I was running a good pace, no niggling injuries or pain, and I was in a good mood.

    And I was overtaken by a man who must have been ten or twenty years older than me. He gave me a friendly wave as he strode past, and I watched him disappear into the distance ahead.
    Just wait for your first LM when the walkers pass you at the halfway point and the pantomime horses at mile 18.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?


    Life moves fast. The mournfest is over, and using the late Queen a bit distasteful.

    On the other hand the graph in the header shows what a patriotic but dull and uncharismatic London lawyer can do. 1945 was far and away the outstanding GE in that graph.

    By the time of the coronation, folk are going to be sick to the back teeth of it. They’d be wise to get it over with quickly. Most European monarchies abolished coronation ceremonies long ago. With very good reason. Mourning the loss of a venerable old lady is one thing, sticking people’s noses in it with ostentatious waste of taxpayers’ cash is quite another.
    What you mean is, that by the time of the coronation a small but vocal minority of republicans and Scottish nationalists will be sick to the back teeth of ‘it’.
    tis a non point because there isn't ongoing Royal stuff going on between now and then. It's like saying on Boxing Day that people are going to be truly fed up by Christmas Eve next year. And KC has already said it's gonna be slimmed down.

    It'll still be a Meghan n Hazza mocking opportunity.
    Japan, Thailand, Tonga, Jordan still have coronations for their new monarchs and even most of the European monarchs still have a significant ceremony. For example King Felipe of Spain rode to his swearing in in a vintage Rolls Royce to flag waving crowds and appeared on the balcony with his family afterwards.

    As you say the national period of mourning for the Queen has ended and even royal mourning ends tomorrow.

    So the coronation next Spring will be the next big royal event but it is probably 8 or 9 months away

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    Sandpit said:

    Right, holiday beckons. A week with books and coctails, instead of being online 18 hours a day.

    Let’s hope there’s not WWIII to come back to next weekend! Laters ✈️

    Well if there is I doubt you could escape it unless in say the South Pacific but enjoy
  • TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    It’s inevitable there will be some cross-border commuting happening if there’s a tax rate arbitrage of 2% or more. Whether that matters, and how widespread it is, is another matter.

    It helps that there are no large English cities within an easy commute of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Getting the tax saving will require a real relocation. The US experience shows it’s rife where state boundaries run through suburban areas.
    Aren't tax rates in Ireland quite a bit lower than UK? Wouldn't that provide a real world model closer to home (unless one assumes that being part of the UK has made NI an economic basket case already bereft of high earners and wealth creators)?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited September 25
    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    I don't understand how anyone who spends so much time pontificating about politics can be so ignorant of basic facts.
    The King is crowned by help of God, the standard Parliamentary oath is to Almighty God.

    Atheists on here may not like that but that is the fact
  • Tres said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    People in the industry with that mindset would already be working in the Isle of Man or Dubai or wherever.
    You really do not understand why tax affects behaviour

    They can still work in in Edinburgh but save 6% tax by moving to a very nice part of the country and commuting for less than an hour

    Indeed it seems Sturgeon is playing a dangerous game if she does not match Westminster
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,025
    TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    It’s inevitable there will be some cross-border commuting happening if there’s a tax rate arbitrage of 2% or more. Whether that matters, and how widespread it is, is another matter.

    It helps that there are no large English cities within an easy commute of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Getting the tax saving will require a real relocation. The US experience shows it’s rife where state boundaries run through suburban areas.
    Perhaps we need to build one.

    *innocent face*
  • Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    For what?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    "According to Diogenes Laërtius, when Plato gave the tongue-in-cheek definition of man as "featherless bipeds," Diogenes (the Cynic, different bloke) plucked a chicken and brought it into Plato's Academy, saying, "Behold! I've brought you a man," and so the academy added "with broad flat nails" to the definition."
  • Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    It's only an extra 6% on earnings over £150k though, isn't it? Unless you're earning a fair bit more than that, your commuting costs (especially if travel time also equals money) would be more than the tax saving I'd have thought.
    Yes and it is the high earners whose tax will be lost to Scotland
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    "According to Diogenes Laërtius, when Plato gave the tongue-in-cheek definition of man as "featherless bipeds," Diogenes (the Cynic, different bloke) plucked a chicken and brought it into Plato's Academy, saying, "Behold! I've brought you a man," and so the academy added "with broad flat nails" to the definition."
    Did they do that to hammer it home?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    No they don't. There is no requirement to swear in by Almighty God at all and many don't.
    The standard MPs oath is 'I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.'

    The fact a few non religious MPs may take a slightly different one does not change the fact that is the standard oath
    Oh and just to correct the 'just a few non religious MPs'. Neither Keir Starmer nor Penny Mourdant took the religious oath this time and in 2019 150 MPs also failed to take the religious oath so it is not just 'a few', it is fairly mainstream.
    So over 75% of MPs do take the religious oath then
    In other words, the vast majority do, but a significant minority do not.

    How about that?
    For crying out loud @hyufd you said 'ALL'.

    It is not 'ALL' is it.

    Will you ever admit you get things wrongs?

    And you said 'ALL' to prove a point which is therefore also wrong.

    Do you not know what 'ALL' means?
    It remains the standard oath for the House to swear allegiance to Almighty God, the fact a few MPs might not do the standard oath exactly as set out does not change that
    It's not a few. It's up to 25%.
    25% is a few, even less than the percentage of the UK voters that voted for Corbyn and Hague
    But more than for the SCons last time out.
    And SLab.
    And the SLDs.
    25% voted for the SCons in 2019 actually in Scotland and 29% voted SCon in 2017
    You do know what last time out means?
    You said 'more than the SCons last time'
  • Tres said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    People in the industry with that mindset would already be working in the Isle of Man or Dubai or wherever.
    You really do not understand why tax affects behaviour

    They can still work in in Edinburgh but save 6% tax by moving to a very nice part of the country and commuting for less than an hour

    Indeed it seems Sturgeon is playing a dangerous game if she does not match Westminster
    And she's barely recovered from the near fatal error of not supporting Boris's Brexit deal!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    For what?
    3 guesses.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited September 25
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    For what?
    3 guesses.
    I wouldn't use it for three guesses. It tends to be pretty rubbish at that.

    I took mine along to a pub quiz night and it didn't get a single question right.

    It did dry us out later though after we'd had a few.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,974
    If this thread is anywhere near correct, then the Russian mobilisation is going to be incredibly tragic for Russia (leaving aside the harm done to Ukraine:
    https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1573962833049665538

    I hadn't thought of the medium- and long-term crime aspects of it, either.
  • TimS said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    It’s inevitable there will be some cross-border commuting happening if there’s a tax rate arbitrage of 2% or more. Whether that matters, and how widespread it is, is another matter.

    It helps that there are no large English cities within an easy commute of Edinburgh and Glasgow. Getting the tax saving will require a real relocation. The US experience shows it’s rife where state boundaries run through suburban areas.
    London looks attractive
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    I am line drying my bedsheets outside as we speak. I always change them at the equinoxes, whether they need it or not.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    I don't see any contradiction between celebrating the life of the late Queen and singing the Red Flag. A democratic socialist constitutional monarchy is what we should be aiming for. And people do really miss her. I was at a party in a local pub last night and the pub had a whole wall given over to a celebration of her life. It made me go a bit tearful!
    According to twitter Starmer has ordered conference to all join in singing GSTK (standing presumably) which I find a bit more off putting than the mawkish tacky stuff tbh. However as I say that is according to twitter..
    I am an atheist monarchist. It is the "God" bit I object to, not the "King" bit.
    Charles is Supreme Governor of the Church of England and takes an oath to protect the security of the Church of Scotland, very much God should be saving him.

    Though personally I would just have GSTK as the royal anthem now the Queen has passed away, played at any event the monarch is in attendance in the UK or in the Commonwealth realms.

    England and the UK should get their own anthems, probably Jerusalem as at the Commonwealth Games and Land of Hope and Glory

    Should he have saved Ed VIII, or only temporarily? Should he have propped up G VI a bit longer?
    He saves whoever is monarch for as long as they are monarch as he divinely ordains
    So what would your position have been on Edward VIII? Since he was divinely ordained as king, should he have married Wallis Simpson and told the government to do one? Or had God turned His face away from him?
    He is divinely ordained as long as he is King, Parliament decided he should abdicate and his brother become King, at which point the divine ordination switched to George VIth
    So Parliament , like Maradona, is the hand of God?
    God also divinely ordains Parliament, hence all MPs swear in by Almighty God
    No they don't. There is no requirement to swear in by Almighty God at all and many don't.
    The standard MPs oath is 'I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles, his heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.'

    The fact a few non religious MPs may take a slightly different one does not change the fact that is the standard oath
    Oh and just to correct the 'just a few non religious MPs'. Neither Keir Starmer nor Penny Mourdant took the religious oath this time and in 2019 150 MPs also failed to take the religious oath so it is not just 'a few', it is fairly mainstream.
    So over 75% of MPs do take the religious oath then
    In other words, the vast majority do, but a significant minority do not.

    How about that?
    For crying out loud @hyufd you said 'ALL'.

    It is not 'ALL' is it.

    Will you ever admit you get things wrongs?

    And you said 'ALL' to prove a point which is therefore also wrong.

    Do you not know what 'ALL' means?
    It remains the standard oath for the House to swear allegiance to Almighty God, the fact a few MPs might not do the standard oath exactly as set out does not change that
    It's not a few. It's up to 25%.
    25% is a few, even less than the percentage of the UK voters that voted for Corbyn and Hague
    But more than for the SCons last time out.
    And SLab.
    And the SLDs.
    25% voted for the SCons in 2019 actually in Scotland and 29% voted SCon in 2017
    You do know what last time out means?
    You said 'more than the SCons last time'
    Pro tip, don't put quotes round a misquote.

    Is 2021 or 2019 last time out?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?

    So insects would have done also as would have spiders, etc, etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 515


    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in

    It's only an extra 6% on earnings over £150k though, isn't it? Unless you're earning a fair bit more than that, your commuting costs (especially if travel time also equals money) would be more than the tax saving I'd have thought.
    Plus you would be somewhat betting on the rate in England not being pushed back up in a couple of years' time -- a mere 2 years of that tax saving might not be enough to cover moving costs.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,109

    Tres said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Because on Friday Kwarteng abolished the 45% tax rate while Sturgeon is at present retaining the 46% rate

    Pay an extra 6% to work in Edinburgh when you are less than an hour from Berwick seems a sensible move and a lovely part of the country to live in
    People in the industry with that mindset would already be working in the Isle of Man or Dubai or wherever.
    You really do not understand why tax affects behaviour

    They can still work in in Edinburgh but save 6% tax by moving to a very nice part of the country and commuting for less than an hour

    Indeed it seems Sturgeon is playing a dangerous game if she does not match Westminster
    The growth of home working would certainly assist with that.
  • TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Two days (or one day) after the budget, fund managers are not seriously considering moving. They might have given it five minutes down the pub but planning a move across the Atlantic takes longer.
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302

    So, what do we think the markets will look like
    Tomorrow?

    You’d have to imagine huge swathes of Tory MPs worried particularly after the poor performances over the weekend

    Talk in the papers of a vote of no confidence if the pound falls below dollar parity...maybe its time for the tories to change leader again
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,485
    edited September 25
    HYUFD said:
    Slightly surprising, to me. I thought there would be some audible dissent, but self-discipline seems to have won the day.
    I think, although it's just symbolic, that this demonstrates how strong a grip Starmer has on the party now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,934
    Keir Starmer is in trouble with the hardcore Remainer activists.

    image
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,032
    edited September 25
    Following on from Kuenssberg's interview with Starmer this morning when he said they would quadruple offshore, increase onshore and solar so that the UK would be zero energy by 2030, just at what point is putting so much of our investments in wind actually a poor use of resources as Kuenssberg quite rightly referred to the number of windless days in the UK as per last Friday when just 15% of energy was produced

    This debate is needed now as it seems to me that the future requires nuclear and hopefully tidal, neither of which are dependent on an unreliable source such as wind, and a long transition using north sea gas is required and should be recognised
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873
    edited September 25
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
  • HYUFD said:
    And no-one got shot by the sniper with the blue laser sight.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,873
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,032
    edited September 25

    Keir Starmer is in trouble with the hardcore Remainer activists.

    image

    To be honest with Starmer standing a real chance of being the next PM why would he become involved in something so controversial and a detraction from his message

    We know Femi is one of a group of distraught remainers and I would have thought he should be threatening Starmer over his refusal to back re-joining the EU but then Femi's home is with the Lib Dems so I doubt Starmer will be bothered by his intervention
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    HYUFD said:
    Slightly surprising, to me. I thought there would be some audible dissent, but self-discipline seems to have won the day.
    I think, although it's just symbolic, that this demonstrates how strong a grip Starmer has on the party now.
    Stupidly (and I do mean stupidly), I was expecting GSTQ and thinking They'll get by on sentiment. GSTK seems altogether bolder.

    What with this and the You gov Wales poll I think SKS is on a roll and Lab Maj 12/5 is value
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
  • Around 19% turnout in Italian General Election at noon. Similar to last time at that hour.

    https://elezioni.interno.gov.it/camera/votanti/20220925/votantiCI
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,934

    Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    If you dry clothes inside they can extract a staggering amount of water from the air. Other than that I'm not sure why you'd use one unless you have a specific issue.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,210
    edited September 25
    Just heard our new PM referred to dismissively as "Trussolini". I quite like that.

    No signs of the trains running on time, sadly. Running at all would be a good start.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Yes.

    I was hoping to keep it going longer...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25

    HYUFD said:
    Slightly surprising, to me. I thought there would be some audible dissent, but self-discipline seems to have won the day.
    I think, although it's just symbolic, that this demonstrates how strong a grip Starmer has on the party now.
    Yes, give Starmer and Labour their due, for the first time since under Blair pre 1997 they are an opposition party that really wants to win and will do the necessary to do so.

    The Tories however are now firmly in ideological purity mode above all for the first time since Cameron became leader
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,934
    edited September 25
    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    edited September 25

    Just heard our new PM referred to dismissively as "Trussolini". I quite like that.

    Although things don't look Bene right now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.
    Peter the punter does.

    Well, he keeps something that Rex his furniture.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,974

    Following on from Kuenssberg's interview with Starmer this morning when he said they would quadruple offshore, increase onshore and solar so that the UK would be zero energy by 2030, just at what point is putting so much of our investments in wind actually a poor use of resources as Kuenssberg quite rightly referred to the number of windless days in the UK as per last Friday when just 15% of energy was produced

    This debate is needed now as it seems to me that the future requires nuclear and hopefully tidal, neither of which are dependent on an unreliable source such as wind, and a long transition using north sea gas is required and should be recognised

    If Starmer was saying that we'd get to net zero with wind and solar alone, then he's being a fool (unless there's some magic high-capacity storage tech we don't know about).

    For energy security, our energy supply has to be varied: a little bit of everything: wind, solar, tidal, wave, nuclear, gas, storage etc. I also doubt that net-zero is going to end up being cheaper than (say) gas was in normal times. It is going to cost us, but that cost will probably be less than the cost we have in these interesting times...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Following on from Kuenssberg's interview with Starmer this morning when he said they would quadruple offshore, increase onshore and solar so that the UK would be zero energy by 2030, just at what point is putting so much of our investments in wind actually a poor use of resources as Kuenssberg quite rightly referred to the number of windless days in the UK as per last Friday when just 15% of energy was produced

    This debate is needed now as it seems to me that the future requires nuclear and hopefully tidal, neither of which are dependent on an unreliable source such as wind, and a long transition using north sea gas is required and should be recognised

    If Starmer was saying that we'd get to net zero with wind and solar alone, then he's being a fool (unless there's some magic high-capacity storage tech we don't know about).

    For energy security, our energy supply has to be varied: a little bit of everything: wind, solar, tidal, wave, nuclear, gas, storage etc. I also doubt that net-zero is going to end up being cheaper than (say) gas was in normal times. It is going to cost us, but that cost will probably be less than the cost we have in these interesting times...
    He wants nuclear in the mix. Should be talking batteries though.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.
    Is there a law?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that
    Awwww, bless.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,631
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.
    Is there a law?
    There's one in Truss' cabinet, but I'm not sure he counts as a pet.
  • Around 19% turnout in Italian General Election at noon. Similar to last time at that hour.

    https://elezioni.interno.gov.it/camera/votanti/20220925/votantiCI

    Obviously it is midday and not noon...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,109
    According to Tim Shipman he was with a group of hedge fund managers last week, all of whom were supporters of Truss. They then made money shorting the pound on Friday.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    edited September 25
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    ????

    You only need one example to prove it wrong so birds was good enough and yes birds are animals, what did you think they were @ydoethur?
    Birds.
    😮😁 And birds are?

    You are winding me up aren't you?
    Dinosaurs

    NOT "descended from dinosaurs."
    And dinosaurs are/were also animals. Have I entered an alternative universe?
    No. you are right, @ydoethur is having an uncharacteristic logic fail, I was making a separate pet point. We don't say modern day fishes are descended from fishes.
    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.
    Is there a law?
    I think I've told the story before about how after myself and another 80+ year old had been manning our local museum ..... It runs on volunteers .......... one Sunday afternoon I went into the pub and was asked what I've been doing.

    I said I'd been running the museum along with (name) at which my questioner remarked "blimey other people have dinosaurs in their museum; we have dinosaurs running ours!"
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    HYUFD said:

    Net favourability:

    Liz Truss / Keir Starmer

    London -45 / +8

    Rest of South -26 / -24

    Midlands and Wales -30 / -15

    North -30 / -28

    Scotland -52 / -18

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,298; 21 September)

    Starmer beating Truss everywhere, although Labour strategists will be perplexed as to why it is so close in the north of England. And, as always, the Scottish numbers look dire for Labour, as a net gain of 124 seats is dependent on one of three things:

    A. An SNP collapse in Scotland
    B. A Con collapse in England
    C. A Lib Dem landslide in the south of England

    None of those three scenarios looks likely at present, although B may come into play next year, unless the global economy perks up pronto. Likelihood of these scenarios happening at the next UK GE?

    B 25/1 ?
    C 33/1 ?
    A 100/1 ?

    If my odds are remotely near correct, then the current price for Lab Maj of 5/2 looks like staggeringly poor value.

    Those rest of South numbers will worry Truss, that is the Tories heartland, if she is even trailing Starmer there on net favourability
    Thank you for your honesty.

    Now, please tell us the tanks and Franco praise were just jokes. Then you may be readmitted to polite society.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25

    According to Tim Shipman he was with a group of hedge fund managers last week, all of whom were supporters of Truss. They then made money shorting the pound on Friday.

    Shameful, none of them are decent Tories in any sense of the word. Indeed even Starmer Labour has showed more patriotism than them today.

    Shades of Black Wednesday
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177
    HYUFD said:

    According to Tim Shipman he was with a group of hedge fund managers last week, all of whom were supporters of Truss. They then made money shorting the pound on Friday.

    Shameful, none of them are decent Tories in any sense of the word. Indeed even Starmer Labour has showed more patriotism than them today.

    Shades of Black Wednesday
    Hens teeth come to mind!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.

    Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
    To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
    The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
    No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
    If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,018

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ukraine are using ATACMS. No coincidence that this video emerges so soon after Russia's mobilisation starts. This gives Ukraine even greater range to hit Russian logistics.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1573843064900272129

    Well that will make one hell of a difference. It can hit every railway line in Russsian-occupied territory, half a mile inside the Ukranian border. Including the Kerch Bridge. As much of a total game-changer, as the original HIMARS.

    Hope the conscripts enjoy freezing and starving, with no ammunition for most of the winter. Or maybe they get lucky, and can’t make it to Ukraine in the first place.
    That’s not ATACAMS, though.
    I thought it was a bigger missile than the normal launch? Maybe I made a mistake.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM-140_ATACMS

    ATACMS takes up the space of 6 ordinary MLRS rockets. Very different and easy to spot.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Net favourability:

    Liz Truss / Keir Starmer

    London -45 / +8

    Rest of South -26 / -24

    Midlands and Wales -30 / -15

    North -30 / -28

    Scotland -52 / -18

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,298; 21 September)

    Starmer beating Truss everywhere, although Labour strategists will be perplexed as to why it is so close in the north of England. And, as always, the Scottish numbers look dire for Labour, as a net gain of 124 seats is dependent on one of three things:

    A. An SNP collapse in Scotland
    B. A Con collapse in England
    C. A Lib Dem landslide in the south of England

    None of those three scenarios looks likely at present, although B may come into play next year, unless the global economy perks up pronto. Likelihood of these scenarios happening at the next UK GE?

    B 25/1 ?
    C 33/1 ?
    A 100/1 ?

    If my odds are remotely near correct, then the current price for Lab Maj of 5/2 looks like staggeringly poor value.

    Those rest of South numbers will worry Truss, that is the Tories heartland, if she is even trailing Starmer there on net favourability
    Combined with the YG regional cross breaks showing the Lib Dems at their strongest in rest of the South and London while weak elsewhere (hence much more efficient than
    previously) and she is facing a pincer movement. Lib Dems in Kherson and Labour in Kharkiv.
    Shhh…. Never disturb your enemy when they are embarking on a mistake.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 11,238
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Net favourability:

    Liz Truss / Keir Starmer

    London -45 / +8

    Rest of South -26 / -24

    Midlands and Wales -30 / -15

    North -30 / -28

    Scotland -52 / -18

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,298; 21 September)

    Starmer beating Truss everywhere, although Labour strategists will be perplexed as to why it is so close in the north of England. And, as always, the Scottish numbers look dire for Labour, as a net gain of 124 seats is dependent on one of three things:

    A. An SNP collapse in Scotland
    B. A Con collapse in England
    C. A Lib Dem landslide in the south of England

    None of those three scenarios looks likely at present, although B may come into play next year, unless the global economy perks up pronto. Likelihood of these scenarios happening at the next UK GE?

    B 25/1 ?
    C 33/1 ?
    A 100/1 ?

    If my odds are remotely near correct, then the current price for Lab Maj of 5/2 looks like staggeringly poor value.

    Those rest of South numbers will worry Truss, that is the Tories heartland, if she is even trailing Starmer there on net favourability
    Combined with the YG regional cross breaks showing the Lib Dems at their strongest in rest of the South and London while weak elsewhere (hence much more efficient than
    previously) and she is facing a pincer movement. Lib Dems in Kherson and Labour in Kharkiv.
    Indeed, she will hope her tax cuts mainly focused at wealthy Home Counties voters will boost her
    You need to be earning more than £155,000 pa to be paying less tax from this mini budget. That demographic is simply too small.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Net favourability:

    Liz Truss / Keir Starmer

    London -45 / +8

    Rest of South -26 / -24

    Midlands and Wales -30 / -15

    North -30 / -28

    Scotland -52 / -18

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,298; 21 September)

    Starmer beating Truss everywhere, although Labour strategists will be perplexed as to why it is so close in the north of England. And, as always, the Scottish numbers look dire for Labour, as a net gain of 124 seats is dependent on one of three things:

    A. An SNP collapse in Scotland
    B. A Con collapse in England
    C. A Lib Dem landslide in the south of England

    None of those three scenarios looks likely at present, although B may come into play next year, unless the global economy perks up pronto. Likelihood of these scenarios happening at the next UK GE?

    B 25/1 ?
    C 33/1 ?
    A 100/1 ?

    If my odds are remotely near correct, then the current price for Lab Maj of 5/2 looks like staggeringly poor value.

    Those rest of South numbers will worry Truss, that is the Tories heartland, if she is even trailing Starmer there on net favourability
    Combined with the YG regional cross breaks showing the Lib Dems at their strongest in rest of the South and London while weak elsewhere (hence much more efficient than
    previously) and she is facing a pincer movement. Lib Dems in Kherson and Labour in Kharkiv.
    Shhh…. Never disturb your enemy when they are embarking on a mistake.
    Truss knows she is faced with a pincer movement.

    It’s just that, like Putin, her strategy involves sending hundreds of thousands of the less well off into a mince grinder, and she knows no kind of alternative.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,493

    Following on from Kuenssberg's interview with Starmer this morning when he said they would quadruple offshore, increase onshore and solar so that the UK would be zero energy by 2030, just at what point is putting so much of our investments in wind actually a poor use of resources as Kuenssberg quite rightly referred to the number of windless days in the UK as per last Friday when just 15% of energy was produced

    This debate is needed now as it seems to me that the future requires nuclear and hopefully tidal, neither of which are dependent on an unreliable source such as wind, and a long transition using north sea gas is required and should be recognised

    Correct.

    I think Starmer probably just doesn’t understand the dynamics of the wind gold rush, which are that the taxpayer is writing the cheques. What sensible business person would build a windfarm, in a country full of windfarms, that could all only operate when it's windy, when the grid can only support so much? Every new windfarm diminishes the return for all. The only reason that they do it is because the electricity bill payer pays whether or not any of that wind power is even making it on to the grid. Without that guarantee, the whole house of cards falls down.

    What will have to happen is that one day, the Government cancels all constraint payments to wind providers. This will force providers to invest in storage, or make no money. But it will have to happen as a surprise, and it can only be done once, as it will kill all future wind power development. At the moment, it's understandable that the Government does not want to do it. And Starmer is just an idiot.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,814
    Pro_Rata said:

    Weather for Italian election:

    Amber rain alert for the middle part of the west coast - Tuscany, Lazio, Campania and in to Molise, yellow rain alert very widely from Venice to Sardinia to Puglia.

    A lot of the left's constituency hopes in that amber zone, might also depress their national vote share a tad if it depresses turnout.

    This is certainly going to be a factor in turnout timing and perhaps distribution.

    National turnout at midday around 19%, just a fraction of a % down on 2018.

    Midday turnout in Naples area, in stormy conditions, is 11%, over 4% down on the equivalent 2018 figure.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 16,537
    Krugman described the budget as “moronic” and has just posted that he can see a path to a 1976 currency crisis after all.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?


    Life moves fast. The mournfest is over, and using the late Queen a bit distasteful.

    On the other hand the graph in the header shows what a patriotic but dull and uncharismatic London lawyer can do. 1945 was far and away the outstanding GE in that graph.

    By the time of the coronation, folk are going to be sick to the back teeth of it. They’d be wise to get it over with quickly. Most European monarchies abolished coronation ceremonies long ago. With very good reason. Mourning the loss of a venerable old lady is one thing, sticking people’s noses in it with ostentatious waste of taxpayers’ cash is quite another.
    What you mean is, that by the time of the coronation a small but vocal minority of republicans and Scottish nationalists will be sick to the back teeth of ‘it’.
    tis a non point because there isn't ongoing Royal stuff going on between now and then. It's like saying on Boxing Day that people are going to be truly fed up by Christmas Eve next year. And KC has already said it's gonna be slimmed down.

    It'll still be a Meghan n Hazza mocking opportunity.
    To be fair I’m usually sick of Christmas by about November 10.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Afternoon all. The YouWales poll is bang in line with this weeks 8 point YouGov national lead, about a 9 point swing since 2019 and a bit short of majority territory. Of course if the Tories are on 23 in Wales and teens in Scotland, that puts them mid to 'upper mid' 30s in England which makes Labour's job to reach majority very hard indeed, they are going to need much more vote efficiency as well as numbers.
    That said, YouGovs welsh polls thrash about even more than their UK ones
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,109
    Is the growing interest rate on government bonds the most important thing to be watching? Even more significant than the value of sterling?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    IshmaelZ said:

    Tres said:

    TV Wales say the same sample were asked about Mark Drakeford.

    - Doing Well as Labour Leader - 54%
    - Doing Badly - 35%
    - Don't Know - 11%

    Big G must be gutted.

    Good morning

    I will answer this directly

    Labour have been in power in Wales for decades and yet we have some of the worst poverty in the UK, a failing NHS, and education system, plus a proposed tourist tax and reducing all 30mph to 20mph

    We also have a large public sector and as in Scotland, Wales is effectively a socialist fiefdom

    However I do support the Welsh Government’s attack on holiday homes and not everything they do is negative

    The main factor for me is that it is Westminster that dictates the tax rates hence why I support a conservative government over a labour one

    I have just listened to Starmer on BBC and frankly it was embarrassing when he couldn't give any answer on how he would deal with a price cap beyond April 23, and even worse how labour's drive for big increases in wind and solar to make UK energy zero by 2030 when, as Kuenessberg said, that last Friday that just 15% came from wind. To be fair Starmer did say we would need oil and gas for a transition period which comes back to the point Truss is making in investing in North Sea licences for that transition period of maybe 20 years

    We can all say someone has a car crash interview, but maybe addressing the issues head on rather than one liners is a more sensible way of debate
    Good morning Big_G. Your position regarding Drakeford sounds similar to how some friends consider mine regarding Sturgeon. Don't support their party. Would prefer a different leader. Dislike some of the mouth-foaming lunacy. But recognise there is good as well.

    The social reality is that national democracy has got under the skin of the peoples of Wales and Scotland. They want more say locally in what happens in their nation, regardless of what is happening in Westminster. So my proffered solution remains a proper constitutional settlement which allows the UK to fully devolve powers and authority to the nations.

    Final question - when you say you'd prefer a Tory government over a Labour one, does that include now? Are you supporting "bet everything on red" despite being insanely risky and against everythinng your party has ever stood for?
    Thank you and it is true that those of us in North Wales feel far distant from Cardiff, not only in actual travelling time but to an extent in politics. We do see ourselves closer to Cheshire and Lancashire and maybe that is understandable

    In regard to your last question yes I do support Truss's drive to increase growth and it seems there is a lot more to come on deregulation, doctors pensions, child care, and more but to be honest I am uneasy to a certain extent and it is a gamble, but then keeping things as they are is also a gamble

    I read in the telegraph that fund managers from Scotland and New York are seriously considering moving to the City and if it consolidates London as a centre for finance then I am pleased with that

    I also read that Edinburgh financial advisors are seriously worried about Sturgeons 46% (+1% higher than Westminster) tax rate that they are seeking to move to Berwick and travel in every day by train. It brings back memories of the early 1960s when I did travel to work in Edinburgh by train from Berwick every day pulled by those wonderful legendary steam trains

    I obviously hope that it succeeds, but if it does not then the conservatives will be out of office for a very long time
    Why would these 'Edinburgh financial advisors' be worried about it now if they weren't worried about it last week?
    Look, it must be true, super Scot businessman Jim McColl says it is.
    Jim is currently resident in Monaco so he knows what he's talking about.


    Rather a powerful point, then, the usual response to I am going to leave the country threats is Yeah, they never actually do it.

    With Starmer expressly saying he will reinstate 45% moving to Berwick looks a gamble at the moment. Say you earn £1m and live in £2m properties, you save 120k over 2 years but spend 154k in SD.
    Or you rent in Berwick - ideally with an option to buy. And then you rent out your place in Edinburgh

    I’d assume you get more for your money in Berwick so an upgrade in quality of life offset by 90 minutes on the train each day.

    All paid for by the government.

    And after 2 years you can make an informed choice


  • HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Net favourability:

    Liz Truss / Keir Starmer

    London -45 / +8

    Rest of South -26 / -24

    Midlands and Wales -30 / -15

    North -30 / -28

    Scotland -52 / -18

    (PeoplePolling/GB News; 1,298; 21 September)

    Starmer beating Truss everywhere, although Labour strategists will be perplexed as to why it is so close in the north of England. And, as always, the Scottish numbers look dire for Labour, as a net gain of 124 seats is dependent on one of three things:

    A. An SNP collapse in Scotland
    B. A Con collapse in England
    C. A Lib Dem landslide in the south of England

    None of those three scenarios looks likely at present, although B may come into play next year, unless the global economy perks up pronto. Likelihood of these scenarios happening at the next UK GE?

    B 25/1 ?
    C 33/1 ?
    A 100/1 ?

    If my odds are remotely near correct, then the current price for Lab Maj of 5/2 looks like staggeringly poor value.

    Those rest of South numbers will worry Truss, that is the Tories heartland, if she is even trailing Starmer there on net favourability
    Combined with the YG regional cross breaks showing the Lib Dems at their strongest in rest of the South and London while weak elsewhere (hence much more efficient than
    previously) and she is facing a pincer movement. Lib Dems in Kherson and Labour in Kharkiv.
    Indeed, she will hope her tax cuts mainly focused at wealthy Home Counties voters will boost her
    You need to be earning more than £155,000 pa to be paying less tax from this mini budget. That demographic is simply too small.
    And the more than comfortable Home Counties types (high five figure salaries) are the ones who get all the tax rises from Stingy Sunak and hardly any of the cuts from Krazy Kwasi. They're going to be paying quite a bit more tax, which is probably fair enough. But lousy democratic politics.

    When you list all the costs and benefits, it's really hard to make this package look like a reasonable punt. It's certainly not a red/black, almost 50:50 thing. Is it as bad as betting the farm on a single number coming up?
  • Excellent opening to the conference, Labour is back as the true UK patriotic party
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,147

    Keir Starmer is in trouble with the hardcore Remainer activists.

    image

    That he's irritating these wankers makes people like me more likely to vote Labour.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    kjh said:

    Sandpit said:

    Right, holiday beckons. A week with books and coctails, instead of being online 18 hours a day.

    Let’s hope there’s not WWIII to come back to next weekend! Laters ✈️

    Going somewhere with a lot of sun and sand?
    If I was living in Dubai “sun and sand” is the last thing I’d want on holiday!
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 515

    You can't keep dinosaurs as pets.

    I recommend the book How To Keep Dinosaurs, which deals with many of the practical considerations and suggests several species suitable even for the modern suburban home.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 104,916
    edited September 25

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party 2022: Patriot Harder.
    Will the Red Flag be making an appearance?




    This is at the heart of Labour’s strategic conundrum: the more they ape the English Tories, the more distasteful they become to their target voters in Scotland. Mark Drakeford knows what he’s doing. Anas Sarwar is yet another in an astonishing line of SLab duds.

    Labour have made their ‘Muscular Unionism’ (copyright M Gove) bed. Now they must lie in it. Sweet dreams are profoundly unlikely.
    To beat the SNP in Scotland SLab need Tory and LD tactical votes in seats where they are in second place, as Ian Murray does so brilliantly in Edinburgh South. They need to united Unionists behind them, they are not going to win over many if any Nationalists back from the SNP
    The tweeter in the image I posted is a recently retired SLab MSP. Doesn’t Starmer need to keep people like him on board?
    No, Findlay is a hard left socialist who only got into Holyrood on the list
    If Scottish Labour gleefully throw away the hard left socialist vote then they can forget 15-20 gains. No amount of SLD and SCon tactical votes can save them is they start haemorrhaging their core support.
    Most of the hard left in Scotland went to the SNP or Greens or Tommy Sheridan long ago. Most SLab voters now are centrist or centre left Unionists
  • Anyone use a dehumidifier here? Would you recommend it?

    If you dry clothes inside they can extract a staggering amount of water from the air. Other than that I'm not sure why you'd use one unless you have a specific issue.
    Yes I do
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 3,347
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    @HYUFD

    Try this analogy:

    A statement:
    ALL animals have 4 legs therefore having 4 legs is a prerequisite for life.

    A reply:
    But birds have 2 legs so it is not true that ALL animals have 4 legs.

    Consequence:
    The 'therefore' in the first statement is also now not true.

    The key thing here is that the whole statement fails once the 'ALL' fails. The 'ALL' can't be replaced by 'MOST' or 'SOME'.

    Leaving aside whether birds are animals, don't humans have two legs as well?

    Or have I been doing it wrong all these years?
    For humans it’s two legs good, four legs bad

This discussion has been closed.